S06.E09: Irreconcilable Differences

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Quentin Lance is kidnapped by Black Siren and Cayden James, who are looking to trade Lance’s life for a weapon of mass destruction. Oliver and Team Green Arrow must figure out a way to save Lance while still keeping the city safe.

[RandomWatcher]

Arrow: the team is no more

Flash: Barry is arrested

Supergirl: Kara is near death

Legends: Constantine joins up

[JJ928]

Man, I was hoping Curtis would leave the company too. Can I have nothing? LOL

[BkWurm1]

Yeah, I don't know how I'm ever supposed to care about the newbs ever again.  What a bunch of whiny babies.  

[mtlchick]

I'm just going to bask in the afterglow of Stephen Amell replying to me on Facebook the other day to essentially ignore the last 50 minutes of this episode.  Because that was a pretty bland fall finale.  

[Morrigan2575]

This was a really good episode, surprisingly well paced.

I always enjoy a team heist movie and this MI homage worked for me just like S4 or S5 when they broke into PT.

The wedding had me smiling like and idiot very sweet, cute. I know that it was done more than for Olicity wedding they did it to setup the betrayal (Curtis was the red herring) and set up Team Noobs as friends. Still, I don't care, I really enjoyed the happy, fun, family vibe. 

I still don't get how Noah got in or why Donna/Noah were so friendly after S4 finale but, I'll wave it.

[Angel12d]

I was really understanding Rene's conflict at first but then he had to be a dick and now I don't care. You have to earn back trust once you've wrecked it and he was whining about that after just a couple of hours.

I guess I don't have much sympathy for the newbies tbh. OTA are basically right about Dinah not telling them about Vigilante, given that he's a rat, and I don't care about Curtis at all so he can whine about privacy all he wants.

[jay741982]

Why the fuck is Viligante on Team Bad if he s about Justice? Hypocrite much?

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yeah, I don't know how I'm ever supposed to care about the newbs ever again.  What a bunch of whiny babies.  

Seriously. The only one who even remotely had a point was Curtis. Rene started out being understandable, then shat all over that. Dinah never had a point. What a hot-ass mess, haha.

[ladylaw99]

I too don't care for the newbies, so this fell flat to me.  I loved the reception and everybody having fun except for Curtis.

[tennisgurl]

Wow, I finally start to warm to the newbies a bit, and they all randomly turn into whiny babies. I actually kind of felt for Rene at first, and Oliver was clearly looking to give him another chance, and then he and Curtis start whining and put the whole mission in jeopardy. Shut up newbies. 

On the other hand, we got Olicity reception, Quentin and Oliver bonding, and Thea giving awesome advice. Plus, the heist part was a lot of fun. So, not an awful episode, but nothing that makes me go "OMG I cant wait until the next episode!". Not even the new Legion of Doom is particularly interesting. I mean, do THEY have a telepathic gorilla? I think not. 

Oh well, I hope everyone has a great Beebo Day season before we get our next episodes! 

Edited December 8, 2017 by tennisgurl

[BkWurm1]

Dinah was in Diggle's face for weeks because he was keeping secrets but if she keeps a secret that people confront her on, she is the hurt party.  Rene admits to testifying against Oliver in a plea deal to cover his ass and gets huffy when after Oliver gave him a second chance, he right away broke his trust.  And Curtis, Curtis has rewritten his own history to somehow blame the team for why Paul left him when it was Curtis choosing the team over Paul.  The team never forced you to join and now you are crying about people not trusting you because they spent ONE EVENING tracking them?  

The entitled attitude going on between the newbs amazes me.  Baffles me. 

[calliope1975]

So, as I said, please give me a still of Olicity gazing at each other so I can blow it up and hang it on my wall. ? I really liked the reception even if I don't understand where Noah came from or why he is here. 

I'll give kudos to Rene for stepping up and saying he was the mole, but he is an idiot for believing the prosecutor and their air tight case. Of course that's what the they're going to tell you! Do they not have L&O in the Arrowverse?

Otherwise, with the team breaking up, well, this is not Cap versus Iron Man. Not even close. Show, you've just given me everything I've wanted with the split! Thanks!

That last shot of Team Big Bad was underwhelming. CJ and Anatoly - ok, but everyone else is meh. 

[JJ928]

I enjoyed the episode but I agree, it fell flat because I don't care about the newbies. I felt for Curtis when he was talking about Paul, but that's about it. I'm excited for the eps to come without them in the lair.

[Soulfire]

3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

So, as I said, please give me a still of Olicity gazing at each other so I can blow it up and hang it on my wall. ? I really liked the reception even if I don't understand where Noah came from or why he is here. 

For now, GIFs to come --

Edited December 8, 2017 by Soulfire

[leopardprint]

First Diggle has to marry the idiot that erased his daughter, kidnapped him and made him vomit, now Rene steals his rightful Best Man speech. 

#JusticeforDiggle2017

[Angel12d]

I can't believe we got 11 minutes of the Olicity wedding reception and yet I feel like I barely saw Felicity at all. LMAO. It was cheesy but I really enjoyed it. I felt like the romantic cheesiness was earned after all this time. And it was nice to see everyone so happy in contrast to the end of the episode. 

SA really does those hearts eyes well. MY HEART.

[SleepDeprived]

Wow. Look at the superior Arrowverse writers sublimating their feelings about the crossover double wedding and turning it into a near-perfect reception for their beautiful couple. It was  perfect and sooo freakin' sweet and I clapped right along with Diggle when Olicity kissed. Oliver and Felicity looked so in love with each other and I honestly cried when "At Last" played. I loved every minute of it.

And then the rest of the episode happened, I guess. The newbs leaving would've worked better as a cliffhanger if I cared about any of them. As it stands, meh. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Primal Slayer]

Overall this was my favorite Mid season finale out of the 4 since the ante was up throughout the episode and not just a small portion.

It was nice seeing them all in a casual setting, celebrating and just being normal. I feel like the show had more of that back in the day. Also nice to see Donna again though not enough of her and Quentin.

Once I found out it was Rene who sung like a canary to Watson, it wasn't that surprising since he has always been the black sheep of the gang I feel like. I understand where he was coming from but he didn't have to keep it a secret for as long as he did and I am pissed that they didnt feel it was important enough to show him/Watson on screen. He really looked like an ass though trying to defy Oliver after all of this, if it hadnt gone down I wouldn't have minded him doing what he does in the field. 

If Oliver had just listened to Diggle and confronted the team head on they wouldn't have lost everyone but I see Oliver fell back into his usual "Im the boss so what I say goes". And then he had to place doubt in Diggles mind at that lol....lord have mercy.

I was really itching for a brief Dinah/Oliver throw down but it wasnt hard to be on her side of things when it came to this whole "spying on your teammates" when it came to Diggle. He out of anyone should've had her back.

We FINALLY get some backstory to Black Siren this season...took long enough. Quentin dying when she was so young would definitely change things for the Lance family and I want to see what ramifications it had. What did Dinah do afterwards? Is Sara on E2? Gimmie that origin episode! But I was glad to see a bit of remorse from her when it came to talking to Quentin and that she let him go, though I wonder how she will swing that with Caydon or if they will just ignore it.

The team breaking into Argus was fun, I like undercover missions in general and think the show could use more of them.

Vigilante makes no sense, last we saw him he was all "I want JUSTICE! Justice with blood!" and now he is on team bad? Hopefully this Legion of Doom works as good as Legends did.

[insomniadreams88]

Overall, I liked the episode. Not my favorite of the season so far, but it was good. 

LOVED the wedding reception. Loved Oliver and Felicity's love. Loved the heart eyes, the gazing, the dance, everything about Olicity. 

Just give me all the OTA moments. I love seeing them work together. These are people who have earned each other's trust and I will fight anyone who even tries to suggest otherwise.

Really liked Lance giving Oliver the watch and their conversation.

I could have done with a conversation between Felicity and her father instead of most of Donna's stuff (and I do generally like Donna, just, if you have Tom Amandes, take advantage of that. USE HIM. Especially with all there is to explore between Felicity and her father.)  

The newbies. Ugh. Hated pretty much all of them for the entire episode. Let's look at the facts. OTA has been working together for 6 years. Curtis came along two years ago. Rene and Dinah a year ago. Gee, I wonder who's going to be on the "automatically trusted" list. 

Liked Rene's speech at the reception, but that was mostly because Curtis was a mess. However, his betrayal kind of ruined it. 

Don't even get me started on Curtis. I'll just say shut up, Curtis, and that'll cover everything about him in the episode, okay? (Especially since he seems to have forgotten just why his relationship with Paul ended. Did he hit himself in the head with one of his T-spheres while he was throwing it around in the field one day and forget last year?)

Dinah continues to annoy me like she has for most of this season so far.

Bye, newbies. Please, never come back. We won't miss you.

I don't care that Black Siren let Lance go. I don't care that apparently cake was a bonding moment for them. She's evil, she can't be redeemed, and is everyone supposed to forget she attacked a woman who just came out of a coma and told her she'd put her back in a coma? 

I do like that Cayden is the leader of the team of villains (seriously, give me as much ME as possible), but I don't like the camera in the bunker because I feel like someone should have found it in the past couple of months. Once they know a villain has been in the bunker, they should do a complete, very, very thorough search.

[Morrigan2575]

I loved seeing Thea and the hint of Thea/Roy. I was hoping he'd show up too.

The Dinah/Vigilante stuff was just bad, a parody of a telenovela.

kC still can't act, even as a bad guy, she's dull as all fuck. That being said I will give her props, she did better in that Lance scene than I expected. 

After reading the spoilers for 609 I speculated that BS letting Labce live was part of James bigger plan. I think I was right. They didn't out right say it but, given the camera and the fact that James wanted to split them up and have them fighting each other while he set his plan on motion it seems like it worked.

I'm betting BS and Vigilante are going to be playing/manipulating Lance and Dinah in the future.

Loved all the OTA moments. Seriously show you struck lightning with Felicity, Olicity and OTA stop screwing around and keeping them apart!

I'm sorry but I don't care about the noobs or why they quit. Curtis can go screw! He's bitching about Felicty tracking him when he put nanites in her freaking pancakes to track her to Helix.

[calliope1975]

3 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

For now, GIFs to come --

 

My hero!

[apinknightmare]

My greatest possible hope would be that there's a we know that they know kind of plot twist going on here where the breakup is for show and the team is smart for once because they are fully aware that there's a camera and are using it to their advantage. 

Which won't happen because that would be real dumb to give villains footage of them inside the lair doing all kinds of illegal stuff when the FBI is sniffing around. But less dumb than them not checking for a camera, I guess.

[Primal Slayer]

When Quentin gave Oliver the watch....why not give it to Sara? Im sure she'd like to have something from her grandfather or does Quentin just think she will never settle it down and be able to pass it on? 

And it is time that Thea suits up again. I know that Willa enjoyed the hell outta being Speedy so let her be Speedy! If they can have her retire then they should be able to let Rene retire after all of this.

[Lantern7]

"In case you watched 'Crisis on Earth-X' and wanted to check out Arrow? Well, Oliver Queen makes bad decisions. A lot of bad decisions. He is incapable of getting out of bed without doing something to irrevocably hurt those close to him."

Well, the honeymoon (as it were) is over. The newbies are out, and they're going to form Team Speedy (League of Substitute Vigilantes Heroes?). And we have the Star City version of the Legion of Doom . . . twice the number, a third of the ham. I'm sorry, but between Damien and Malcolm, the "original" version might have fit into the world of Sixties Batman.

Is William that tall or is Thea that short? Also, I feel for her . . . not for getting jumped, but for getting jumped while wearing a dress. Laurel was comfortable. Not fair!

I know the newbies bug, but they had a point. The sad part is that Rene has gotten so far in the past 18 months. He's cleaned up, he's been less of an irritant, and he didn't remind Curtis that he was a widower while the guy was whining about a former love who is still pretty much alive. And then? "Hoss, I'm throwing you under the bus to see my daughter." Dang. I don't really care about Dinah, but I understand why Rene had to be the leak. And I'm still pro-Curtis. I'm not as smart as him, but I get the part about being a putz. I'm still wondering what would possess parents to name their kid "Echo."

Awww, Evil Laurel has a heart. Not much of one, but at least she's not that cold. BTW, can we just call her "Laurel"? Not like somebody's found an unspoiled Lazarus Pit to dump the original's body into. I do think that there is a Laurel on Earth-X, and she's probably a pain in the ass there as well.

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

First Diggle has to marry the idiot that erased his daughter . . .

I know, Barry is a dumbass. But I'm thinking that when he rebooted his timeline, there were subtle differences. That probably included John and Lyla conceiving at a different time (perhaps by seconds), and winding up with a boy instead of a girl. And the parents wouldn't have known if Barry hadn't told them last year. That said, Barry could benefit from repeated dope-slaps upside his head.

Depressing midseason finale . . . but that was the case with Supergirl and The Flash. Legends of Tomorrow? Not as dreary, and that followed a kickass episode.

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, JJ928 said:

I enjoyed the episode but I agree, it fell flat because I don't care about the newbies. I felt for Curtis when he was talking about Paul, but that's about it. I'm excited for the eps to come without them in the lair.

I will enjoy the dynamic but you just know they are going to make them lose a bit too often to really enjoy it properly.  

Plus I really hate that they haven't swept the lair for bugs and cameras.  I'm sure it's coded to be invisible but still!

[Soulfire]

Last GIF post of 2017 --

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

GIFS from here.

Bonus --

Edited December 8, 2017 by Soulfire

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

My greatest possible hope would be that there's a we know that they know kind of plot twist going on here where the breakup is for show and the team is smart for once because they are fully aware that there's a camera and are using it to their advantage. 

 

Sadly I don't think that's the case.  Of course now I also get why they kept referring to Civil War. James had the same plan as Demo, have them destroyed each other and the team can't be rebuilt

[Chaser]

*waves*

"Bye Newbies! Bye Bye!"

Slams door.

[KenyaJ]

Through the magic of means I'm going to keep to myself until I'm back on American soil, I managed to watch the second half of the episode, and these writers are seriously tripping if they expect to identify with, sympathize with, or support the newbies. I wish they'd all get gone and stay gone.

Anyway, looking forward to tomorrow when I can watch the first half.

[Primal Slayer]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

My greatest possible hope would be that there's a we know that they know kind of plot twist going on here where the breakup is for show and the team is smart for once because they are fully aware that there's a camera and are using it to their advantage. 

Which won't happen because that would be real dumb to give villains footage of them inside the lair doing all kinds of illegal stuff when the FBI is sniffing around. But less dumb than them not checking for a camera, I guess.

After them pulling that twist with Al Sha-him or whatever Olivers name was, I don't want that to happen here with this situation. 

[JJ928]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Plus I really hate that they haven't swept the lair for bugs and cameras.  I'm sure it's coded to be invisible but still!

Well, you know Arrow has to make their characters stupid at some point lol.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Sadly I don't think that's the case.  Of course now I also get why they kept referring to Civil War. James had the same plan as Demo, have them destroyed each other and the team can't be rebuilt

Oh, I don't think it's going to happen. I just wish it would because with so many people popping in and out a thorough shakedown should be protocol by now.

[thuganomics85]

Sweet, Arrow's apparently doing it's own version of Marvel's Civil War!  Only instead of it consisting of two teams that I'm kind of invested in, it has pitted a team filled with awesome people (a.k.a. OG Team Arrow), against a team of folks that I tolerate at best (a.k.a. the Noobs.)  Yeah, not exactly a contest here.

In seriousness, I do think the newbies have some good points as I do think Oliver/Felicity's tracking/bugging them was the wrong call (Diggle had the right idea about just confronting everyone), and I can even understand that Rene felt like his back was against the wall.  But they ruined it by acting like such idiots otherwise.  Dinah was still secretly meeting with someone who was basically their enemy, while Rene never really made a full attempt to apologize for what he did, and then literally his first mission back, he goes against Oliver's instructions.  And maybe he made the "right call" on some levels, but you know what?  He and Curtis didn't even actually save Quentin, and the only reason he is actually alive is because Black Siren suddenly had a change of heart (or this is all part of Cayden's grand plan.)  So, they really don't have a high ground to stand on, because even though they did find him, they still let Black Siren get away with Quentin, and it easily could have ended with his lifeless corpse on the ground.  So, no gold star for you guys at all, noobs.

At least the wedding reception was nice and it was only ruined by a phone call, instead of an attack or, worse, Watson finding another excuse to just barge in and ruin Oliver's night (she is totally petty enough to have done that.)

So, Cayden has actually bugged the Arrow Lab (really, this place and S.T.A.R. Labs are the worst.  They need pointers from the D.O.J. and the Waverider/Gideon, because those places are at least not getting broken into every other day), and has formed an alliance with Vince/Vigilante (sucks to be you, Dinah!), Anatoly (yay!  And boo!), and Internet Troll Kirk Acevedo... err, I mean Diaz.  Not sure what is grand plan is, but I really don't care since I could watch Michael Emerson read the phone book, and it would be more gripping then half of the stuff that has happened this season (and pretty much all of season three.)

Overall, a decent mid-season finale, since I'm at least curious to see how this all plays out.  Still will put the Legends over this, due to the lack of Beebo here.

Edited December 8, 2017 by thuganomics85

[calliope1975]

Forgot to mention that I did really like the heist. The Mission Impossible stuff was cheesy but it worked. I also liked Oliver's bow trick. More stuff like that please. 

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

*waves*

"Bye Newbies! Bye Bye!"

Slams door.

[tennisgurl]

So, is this the start of the Black Siren redemption? Because...I am gonna need a LOT more than not murdering Quentin and having had her father die when she was young. Like I said in the episode thread, its hard to be like "well, her dad died, so I guess her serial killer tendencies are understandable" when literally every other character in your entire franchise has been through things that are just as bad, if not worse, than that. And generally avoid being psycho killers.* 

I mean, maybe they can pull it off, but it will take a lot more than a sad backstory and not killing one person, after killing so many other in cold blood. I need real work, and personal risk to get behind that. If thats the plan at all. 

6 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

At least the wedding reception was nice and it was only ruined by a phone call, instead of an attack or, worse, Watson finding another excuse to just barge in and ruin Oliver's night (she is totally petty enough to have done that.)

I mean, at least an army of interdimentional Nazis didn't show up! 

*I mean, it doesn't always work, but they do TRY damn it. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by tennisgurl

[BunsenBurner]

They should have a mini drone flying around the arrow lair at all times looking for cameras. They get breeched on a regular basis. At this point I count 3 times they’ve had hidden cameras. Slade, Malcolm and now CJ.

 

I beginning to think that Thea is only in this season so that she can be in a coma and basically be beat up whenever she is in an episode.

Edited December 8, 2017 by BunsenBurner

[Angel12d]

The camera thing is so dumb. SO DUMB. They did this already in s3, didn't they? Ugh. Plotty plot plot.

[Morrigan2575]

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So, is this the start of the Black Siren redemption? Because...I am gonna need a LOT more than not murdering Quentin and having had her father die when she was young. Like I said in the episode thread, its hard to be like "well, her dad died, so I guess her serial killer tendencies are understandable" when literally every other character in your entire franchise has been through things that are just as bad, if not worse, than that. And generally avoid being psycho killers. 

I really don't think it is. I think it was part of James plan all along. He had the Lair bugged, he knew they messed with the tech well in advance of them showing up. That kill him was all for show, IMO. The fact that Vigilante is on Team Baddie and nuzzling up to Dinah leads me to believe that BS is doing the same to Lance.

[BkWurm1]

15 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

More to come.

I adored how anxious he was until Felicity showed up. 

[JJ928]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

The fact that Vigilante is on Team Baddie and nuzzling up to Dinah leads me to believe that BS is doing the same to Lance.

I thought Siren was playing Lance, but I didn't think of vigilante. Makes sense that someone as smart as CJ would have all his eggs in a row. I do hope this is how things go down. I am not here for vigilante ever joining the team.

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, JJ928 said:

I thought Siren was playing Lance, but I didn't think of vigilante. Makes sense that someone as smart as CJ would have all his eggs in a row. I do hope this is how things go down. I am not here for vigilante ever joining the team.

Why would he join TA? He showed up on team Baddie.

[JJ928]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Why would he join TA? He showed up on team Baddie.

I've had that fear ever since he was on that hero shelf, on the LOT episode Doomsworld (I think that's name). Add the fact that he's DD's ex and I'm guessing the love interest they teased... I just don't trust them. lol

[JamieLynn832002]

Loved the reception so beautiful, I do wish Roy had actually shown up. I'm not sure how it would've worked since Roy is 'dead' but it would have been great. Do we know if Lance knows the truth? They wouldn't have told him at the time, but have they told him since?

[Featherhat]

4 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I really don't think it is. I think it was part of James plan all along. He had the Lair bugged, he knew they messed with the tech well in advance of them showing up. That kill him was all for show, IMO. The fact that Vigilante is on Team Baddie and nuzzling up to Dinah leads me to believe that BS is doing the same to Lance.

Plus they made JH a regular this season, if they had plans to re Canary BS they probably wouldn't have done that, they don't need two screamers on the team. Or if they do they'll ship her back to E2 to do hero-ing there. But it's probably all part of a convoluted CJ plan

[Primal Slayer]

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So, is this the start of the Black Siren redemption? Because...I am gonna need a LOT more than not murdering Quentin and having had her father die when she was young. Like I said in the episode thread, its hard to be like "well, her dad died, so I guess her serial killer tendencies are understandable" when literally every other character in your entire franchise has been through things that are just as bad, if not worse, than that. And generally avoid being psycho killers.* 

I mean, maybe they can pull it off, but it will take a lot more than a sad backstory and not killing one person, after killing so many other in cold blood. I need real work, and personal risk to get behind that. If thats the plan at all. 

I don't think they will do a redemption since they probably think people expect that and want to "surprise" us by not doing one. Quentin dying probably isn't the only thing that made her into a killer, it was probably a lot of events that happened after he died. Diggles parents are still alive apparently, Oliver had 2 parents and was a douche, Felicitys parents were both alive and who knows about the newbies but none of them had parents die at a young age (apart from Thea and she turned into a druggie).  But I don't see them caring enough to really flesh this all out. 

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Plus they made JH a regular this season, if they had plans to re Canary BS they probably wouldn't have done that, they don't need two screamers on the team. Or if they do they'll ship her back to E2 to do hero-ing there. But it's probably all part of a convoluted CJ plan

You know those Masterminds always 20 steps ahead.

Although, I give Arrow credit they actually setup the whole camera thing, before the reveal. They teased it with Felicity's how can he know it's broken?! Comment then revealed the whole plan at the very end with James not only bugging the lair but, using that camera to recruit personal villains (Vigilante, Anatoly, Dragon).  

Shame I already deleted 4 because I now want to re watch 4 and 7 with the camera knowledge to see if there's aby previous hints.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Featherhat]

20 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Overall, a decent mid-season finale, since I'm at least curious to see how this all plays out.  Still will put the Legends over this, due to the lack of Beebo here.

Yes the distinct lack of Beebo ruined it for me. And Constantine showing up asking for repayment of debts is still the most terrifying thing to happen on all four shows. 

[Primal Slayer]

Didn't Caydon tell Siren that Lance would die if the team didn't go through with the plan? That makes me think that she isn't faking it since that scene wouldn't make sense.