S35.E08: Playing with the Devil

[llewis823]

Just now, blackwing said:

The hardest thing for me if I were to be on Survivor is the lack of caffeine.  I can't make it through a workday without three 18 oz Hydroflasks of black tea.  I'd have to start weaning months in advance.  

Same here. If I get sick and don't get up and make a pot of coffee, I end up with a massive headache along with being sick. AND I drink iced tea most of the rest of the day. So yep, know what you mean there.

[Wings]

6 minutes ago, llewis823 said:

Same here. If I get sick and don't get up and make a pot of coffee, I end up with a massive headache along with being sick. AND I drink iced tea most of the rest of the day. So yep, know what you mean there.

You have to give up caffeine before you go.  The withdrawal symptoms are, headache, fatigue, depression and irritably to name 4, there are more.  It takes about a week to detox from it.   

[Rachel RSL]

Quote

It became bigger than the game and became this true big moral dilemma and do I lie and turn on my one alliance who I feel really strong with or do I just sacrifice myself in this to remain authentic to who I am, which is not a deceitful person?”

Pfft...won't miss Desi at all. Why do people like this go on reality shows that specifically entail lying and stabbing people in the back? If you don't want to play Survivor, stay home and let someone who does want to play take your spot.

[ProfCrash]

2 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Pfft...won't miss Desi at all. Why do people like this go on reality shows that specifically entail lying and stabbing people in the back? If you don't want to play Survivor, stay home and let someone who does want to play take your spot.

I think that there are people who believe that they can lie and stab people in the back in the name of the game and then when they get out there, they realize that they cannot. Desi is hardly the first person to face this. I appreciate that they are honest with themselves and the viewers when they get out there.

[Rachel RSL]

She says in her cast bio that she has "expertise in feigned comraderie" which sounds like she's used to being phony and lying when she needs to. I think it's more that she found herself in a crappy position and decided to play the "I'm such an honest person!" card to save face. Just my opinion.

[himela]

Well we see people other than Chrissy suggesting who should be voted out but we don't know what Chrissy and her alliance have discussed in private and who made the decision. I mean, she is a smart little bitch and she knows to shut up when there is a discussion between the 7 people and not show she is the leader, but I bet the decisions to eliminate only women were hers. Let's just agree to disagree.

[Special K]

18 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I think that there are people who believe that they can lie and stab people in the back in the name of the game and then when they get out there, they realize that they cannot.

Or sometimes, it's people who are sure they are comfortable lying and backstabbing but find once they're out there that they are not comfortable being lied to and being backstabbed by others.  That's usually when the morality flag starts to fly.  Eh, I'm sure I'd be the same way and would take it too personally.

But I always appreciate the player who, having been betrayed, comes back to camp and says "well played, guys, you really got me."  I do think Joe is like this (and maybe has said something like that). 

[green]

4 hours ago, himela said:

I just listened to Desi's interview with Rob and SHE even said she tried to approach Chrissy but she had no interest of working with Desi and Desi added that Chrissy didn't want to work with women and especially women who were a threat to her. I mean, how many more women do some people need to hear the same story from in order to be convinced that f$_&-+ing Chrissy hates women???

Sorry I am still angry lol.

I still see no evidence.  Desi was in the enemy alliance.  You don't go near her because she is poison and someone in your alliance will see you talk and you will have suspicion thrown on you for even talking to her.

Chrissy has never shown she hates other women in this whole game.  In fact on her original tribe she was the one, once she reeled Ben in, that advocated that Ashley be their third with which they could run that tribe over bringing in either Alan or JP.  Last time I looked Ashley was a female.

As for the vote summary I don't feel like re-writing it up again so I defer to my fellow poster below here who summed it up brilliantly.

1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

So, basically, Chrissy has her own alliance that she's working with and, if someone who she isn't working with approaches her to try to get something going and Chrissy says no (because she already has an alliance that she trusts), that means Chrissy automatically hates women? Out of all these women who are supposedly telling the same story about how Chrissy didn't want to work with them, how many have actually stated the facts: Chrissy already had an alliance and was doing really well in the game so she had no need to possibly mess up her game by switching allies. And I really don't understand why she's still taking heat for not saving Katrina. Why should she have wasted her advantage on someone she barely knew, knowing that it would have put a huge target on her back? (And why is Chrissy obligated to work with other women anyway? Especially if it isn't good for her game.) NOT saving Katrina was the best strategic move she could have made, as evidenced by the good position she's in now. Honestly, numerous people in this thread have posted detailed explanations of why every single person Chrissy has been part of voting out was the absolute best strategic move for her game. Literally every single vote-out was easily justified and had nothing at all to do with the sex of the person being booted.

I guess my main question is this: If Ryan, Ben and Chrissy are all working together and have decided as a group who to vote off, why is it only Chrissy who gets accused of hating women? 

As for that last line you posted my theory is that Ryan and Ben would be seen by some as confident and strategic because they are  male.  But let a female play that way and they are seen as "uppity" by some people and/or they hate women.

22 minutes ago, himela said:

Well we see people other than Chrissy suggesting who should be voted out but we don't know what Chrissy and her alliance have discussed in private and who made the decision. I mean, she is a smart little bitch and she knows to shut up when there is a discussion between the 7 people and not show she is the leader, but I bet the decisions to eliminate only women were hers. Let's just agree to disagree.

If you are basing all this on just personally imagining what happened off our TV screens then yeah we will never agree.  Because I can just as easily imagine that JP is the real mastermind behind everything if I wanted to.  After all no one could really be that dim in real life and he keeps wisely silent at strategic moments letting others front for him don't you know, heh.  

Look I get you are angry at Chrissy for some reason I can't even fathom but trying to keep getting a lot of the rest of us to agree with you as in "be convinced that f$_&-+ing Chrissy hates women???" isn't going to happen.  Not with me at least and obviously not with some of the other posters they have re-posted the strategic reasons Chrissy made the moves she did. 

So I agree we should agree to disagree and I'll happily move on if you move on and we can both discuss "JP: Mastermind on the Down Low" instead, hah.  (I'm sorry but JP is like some manikin someone just stuck on the show at the last minute because they realized they forgot to cast the last slot 5 minutes before they all left for Fiji).

Edited November 17, 2017 by green

[piequinn35]

The last 2 episodes, when the HerHu alliance talked about who to vote, there were only 6 of them talking, JP nowhere to be found, he was doing something else, maybe getting coconuts? or fishing

and I guess Chrissy would just tell him who to vote.

Edited November 17, 2017 by piequinn35

[Daisy]

38 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Pfft...won't miss Desi at all. Why do people like this go on reality shows that specifically entail lying and stabbing people in the back? If you don't want to play Survivor, stay home and let someone who does want to play take your spot.

did Desi say she didn't want to do that? 
i think you can get pretty far in this game without having to blatantly lie and stab people in the back. i'd argue some people have won, not doing it. you can play Survivor a myriad of ways. 

[himela]

Katrina's interview about Chrissy:

“I really wanted to connect with her over the sense that we could go far as the older people and there are not that many older people in the game. I think it’s good to have alliances like that. I also knew that she was out to get me from the moment she met me. Because of certain things that just kind of happened along the way, you know what people think. I knew that she was someone that did not want to be connected to me but I also really believe in embracing everybody. I tried to connect with her but I also knew she was really afraid of being the first one going home so she really, really wanted to make sure it was going to be me. And so that was a big piece that I knew from the moment we got on the boat because of some things that happened on the boat. It was kind of interesting watching the edits because I was kind of surprised they made it seem like Chrissy and I were working together. I think she had a lot of fear on her own self that projected on to me a little bit.”

Roark's interview about Chrissy:

"It was definitely tense. She was not a Roark fan. I think it was both strategic and personal, and that’s okay.[..]I’ve been told from Day 1 that she wanted me out, and that was very clear, that was not a line to me."

Ali's interview about Chrissy:

"It was interesting to play with Chrissy. I really liked her from the get-go. When we started talking strategy, maybe I backed off a little bit. I felt she was very straightforward: "This is the vote, this is how it needs to be done." I thought anything I said she would let it go in one ear and out the other. Chrissy had her own game and didn't want to hear about anyone else's. That kind of threw me in the beginning. You're not willing to bounce ideas, or say what about this and what about that? After Roark went home, we actually got pretty close. That's the reason why I had some hope. If I don't find this idol, maybe there's a possibility they'll understand I'm stronger to bring in socially to the other side, because I don't think Chrissy was that strong socially. We related well, but up to that point, I had to relate to her. I had to say yes, Chrissy; of course, Chrissy; because I really want your vote, Chrissy. 

After the vote, I was kind of hurt. To explain my comment about liars [in Ali's final words], it's because … look, I understand lying is a part of the game. I've lied, people lie, it happens. But the one reason why I felt maybe I had some hope is because Chrissy had told me … we had talked about family, friends, religion, everything. You're out there, bored. I told her my family visit would be my sister. She said hers would be her husband. She said to me at one point: "We are so good, Ali. You don't need to worry about anything." I was like, "OK, you're just trying to keep me calm and keep me from finding this idol." And then she said: "I think we're so set up on the other side that I can't wait to see you run and jump into your sister's arms." For something like that? For me being as close as I am with my sister? It was almost like, "Wow. Why would someone lie about this? Maybe I am squeezing through here." Even to go home after that … that's why you see in my exit speech that I'm still very heated. It hurt in the moment. Looking back, I know Chrissy is playing the game. We all understand that. I just hope it benefits her. But I still feel like even though I spent so much time with her, I still don't feel like I really know her — what was real and what wasn't."

Jessica's interview about Chrissy:

"I only really had one full day with these people, but I will say… I hate to say I'm an expert at women, but I feel like I am. Chrissy. I remember thinking she is not OK. She is not OK. She does not like competition from other women. I was very, very aware of it. I felt it. I saw it. In my opinion, I saw her give that aura. Doesn't want to go up against another woman, and if she feels another woman is causing her threat, she will do what she can to remove the threat."

Desi's interview about Chrissy:

"On why she thinks Chrissy wanted to get rid of strong women:
“I think that’s just a part of who she is. I think she’s used to being the dominant female in a situation."

I can move on now. :)

[Special K]

4 minutes ago, himela said:

I can move on now. :)

Promise?

[Guest]

With the vitriol level, you'd think they're committing acts of terrorism out there.  How dare she not like a fellow female?  She must be a bitch.

I didn't like Katrina, Roark or Jessica, either.  It had nothing to do with their gender.  (Ditto for Patrick and Alan.)  I didn't dislike Ali or Desi but if they were not in my alliance or not who furthered my game by keeping, I would lie to them and vote them out as needed. 

[Wings]

32 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

With the vitriol level, you'd think they're committing acts of terrorism out there.  How dare she not like a fellow female?  She must be a bitch.

I didn't like Katrina, Roark or Jessica, either.  It had nothing to do with their gender.  (Ditto for Patrick and Alan.)  I didn't dislike Ali or Desi but if they were not in my alliance or not who furthered my game by keeping, I would lie to them and vote them out as needed. 

I agree 100%  

[Misty79]

I'm done with this season. It's felt tilted in favour of the guys from the get go. I really don't want to watch another season with such an unequal gender balance. I appreciate the social game above all else and we don't get a lot of that with so many beefcakes. 

[ProfCrash]

6 minutes ago, Misty79 said:

I'm done with this season. It's felt tilted in favour of the guys from the get go. I really don't want to watch another season with such an unequal gender balance. I appreciate the social game above all else and we don't get a lot of that with so many beefcakes. 

Weird because I think this season has been far more focused on the strategic game then the physical game. Lauren, Ben, Chrissy and Ryan have been shown strategizing more then worrying about the challenges. Joe is not seen as a physical threat. Mike is looking for a way to survive but I doubt anyone thinks Mike is going to win immunity after immunity. Cole and JP are really the only "beefcakes" left in the game.

I don't think many people are playing great social games. Chrissy's social game in non-existent. Ryan talks about a social game and you can see him trying to reach out to others but it is awkward and I am not sure how good a job he is doing. Ben is loud and I suspect has alienated some folks with his more forceful game play. God knows Ben is not in a good place socially with Joe or Cole. Lauren might be playing the best of the social games. She seems to be pretty under the radar right now but is still involved in the decision making huddles. It does not seem like she has a specific target or groups of people she clearly doesn't like.

There seems to be a clear vote out order right now. I suspect things will get more interesting when it is Ben/Lauren vs Chrissy/Ryan.

[NutMeg]

Hey, I like this season just fine, and enjoying seeing contestants playing a game that doesn't make them characters for the most part. Even Cole, who looks most clueless but has weird moments of insight, or Joe, who may have come wanting to be a villain, but sometimes seems to have second thoughts and is therefore actually more interesting than a full on villain.

Ryan's heart, though... very disturbing. THAT was not a vein pulsating, that was a whole little heart beating. Whoever compared it to an alien about to burst, excellent comparison!

@Himela's posts about outed contestants talking about Chrissy bring back memory of how much hate was thrown at Parvati at FTC in Heroes vs. Villains by Candice, mostly, but also Amanda. I always assumed that there was some part of bitterness there because she hadn't stayed close to them after the game, and/or had won over them, or had not helped their game, or, maybe most importantly, had not been the BFF they expected her to be to them after the game. That's the last time I saw this weird dynamic from female jurors that was not based on anything we saw in the game ("battered wife syndrome", really?), and if Parvati had been a new comer with bland slate I guess some people could have interfered from these reactions that she "hated women".   

[NutMeg]

2 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Weird because I think this season has been far more focused on the strategic game then the physical game. Lauren, Ben, Chrissy and Ryan have been shown strategizing more then worrying about the challenges. Joe is not seen as a physical threat. Mike is looking for a way to survive but I doubt anyone thinks Mike is going to win immunity after immunity. Cole and JP are really the only "beefcakes" left in the game.

I don't think many people are playing great social games. Chrissy's social game in non-existent. Ryan talks about a social game and you can see him trying to reach out to others but it is awkward and I am not sure how good a job he is doing. Ben is loud and I suspect has alienated some folks with his more forceful game play. God knows Ben is not in a good place socially with Joe or Cole. Lauren might be playing the best of the social games. She seems to be pretty under the radar right now but is still involved in the decision making huddles. It does not seem like she has a specific target or groups of people she clearly doesn't like.

There seems to be a clear vote out order right now. I suspect things will get more interesting when it is Ben/Lauren vs Chrissy/Ryan.

I agree about this season being more focused on strategic than physical game, and that may be one of the reasons I like it.

Regarding the social game, I think we are seeing more localised social games here that overall social game, meaning that a few people are working on building a social group of allies without being typical social players, or in some cases (Ashley) are purposefully stepping down on being too social so as not to be seen as threatening. I'm sure it's happened before, but it's not often that we see social awareness used mostly to build alliances, rather that to gain popularity, which is what we're having here. Maybe the best comparison would be with Boston Rob, in that season he won. Except that here it's not one person, but many using the same strategy. 

I'm really enjoying this season, not sure whether it's about the different game play dynamics, or the fact that there's no one heinous, or that most of the remaining players are really playing to win, all with different strategies.

I am however bummed to read that so many find the season "boring" because if that's the general sentiment, we can expect "characters" to be more prominent in future seasons. Which is not something I'd look forward to.   

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I thought the reason why we could see it pounding is because he has zero chest muscles.  He's skin and bones.  He was skinny to begin with and now he's practically a skeleton.  The anxiety and adrenaline would contribute to his heart beating faster, but you wouldn't be able to see it unless he had no muscle.  

Even if you have sufficient pectoral muscles and skin coverage, the actually pulsating is going to move the muscle mass and skin on top of it. You have to be pretty overweight not to see the pounding on the surface, assuming the heart is pounding pretty hard, like after a workout. I'll allow that it was exaggerated on poor, skinny Ryan's chest.

Quote

According to Probst, they did *not* comment on it.  

God they really are morons. They can't even count.

Quote

I just listened to Desi's interview with Rob and SHE even said she tried to approach Chrissy but she had no interest of working with Desi and Desi added that Chrissy didn't want to work with women and especially women who were a threat to her. I mean, how many more women do some people need to hear the same story from in order to be convinced that f$_&-+ing Chrissy hates women???

The math doesn't add up on that. I'm not trying to defend Chrissy - hell, for all I know, she does hate women. But the notion that she doesn't want to work with other women in this game and has voted off other women doesn't equal "she hates women." She may very correctly identify these other women as obstacles to her path to a million dollars. If she's sitting in the final three with Desi and some other woman she's probably not very likely to win. It really does behoove her to be the last woman standing. 

[Daisy]

51 minutes ago, Misty79 said:

I'm done with this season. It's felt tilted in favour of the guys from the get go. I really don't want to watch another season with such an unequal gender balance. I appreciate the social game above all else and we don't get a lot of that with so many beefcakes. 

 

Mike, Joe, Ryan, and Devon are beef cakes? 

24 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

I agree about this season being more focused on strategic than physical game, and that may be one of the reasons I like it.

Regarding the social game, I think we are seeing more localised social games here that overall social game, meaning that a few people are working on building a social group of allies without being typical social players, or in some cases (Ashley) are purposefully stepping down on being too social so as not to be seen as threatening. I'm sure it's happened before, but it's not often that we see social awareness used mostly to build alliances, rather that to gain popularity, which is what we're having here. Maybe the best comparison would be with Boston Rob, in that season he won. Except that here it's not one person, but many using the same strategy. 

I'm really enjoying this season, not sure whether it's about the different game play dynamics, or the fact that there's no one heinous, or that most of the remaining players are really playing to win, all with different strategies.

I am however bummed to read that so many find the season "boring" because if that's the general sentiment, we can expect "characters" to be more prominent in future seasons. Which is not something I'd look forward to.   

 

I love what's going on strat. wise. but i find it boring because i don't feel connected to these people. i think had ti been a two tribe, and we focused all the characters more, i would find it less so. but i always hate 3 tribes. 

[green]

31 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

I am however bummed to read that so many find the season "boring" because if that's the general sentiment, we can expect "characters" to be more prominent in future seasons. Which is not something I'd look forward to.   

Yeah I was thinking the same thing.  I like the more mellow tone and likeable people basically being themselves.  Well Joe at times seems to try and "play" a character but that is about it.

Every season they have old Survivors return we hear endless complaints about wanting a whole new cast on this forum and others.  We finally have a season and now people are complaining about having fresh Survivors.  Maybe it is a case that some people have gotten used to the over-the-top personalities.  Me?  I remember this as old school Survivor and am enjoying it.

[laurakaye]

On 11/16/2017 at 8:58 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't get who's a healer versus hustler versus hero.  That's the biggest issue for me.  So I'm missing all the intrigue.  

At least when you look at a Millennial you can be pretty sure who is a Millennial versus Gen X.  I can read what category these people are supposed to be and then forget it immediately.  

This is my biggest issue with this season.  I can't remember who was in what group before they switched it up, so I also feel like I'm missing the good stuff.

 

On 11/16/2017 at 0:43 PM, Eolivet said:

Ryan, Chrissy and Joe, take several seats and stop telling me how great you are. You haven't won anything yet.

So much this.  I really liked Chrissy in the beginning, but that was before she became so assured of her awesomeness that she had no problem whispering strategy secrets in front of everyone else.  Plus there's no way she didn't immediately know that Probst was one vote shy at TC.  I really need to see the fallout from this next week.  I want to see her counting to 11 over and over and over.

As for Desi - make sure you all have sunglasses handy next week during TC.  Her skin positively glowed on the beach with no makeup.  If she gets her hands on some Bare Minerals?  We won't be able to look directly at her.  

Devon FTW.  He won me over with his "I want to be a shining beacon of light but I can't keep a thought in my brain" statement.  Plus he's not a neanderthal like Cole nor a granite statue like JP.  He's his own flowery ray of love and namaste.

Edited November 17, 2017 by laurakaye

[ghoulina]

8 hours ago, himela said:

I might sound stubborn but nobody can convince me that Desi being voted out was not Chrissy's idea and that she has no problem with women. It became clear to me when on the first episode she didn't save Katrina and in the contrary Katrina has said in interviews that Chrissy hated her from day 1 and wanted her gone  - shocking right? Any normal person in Chrissy's position would think that her and Katrina should stay together since they were the oldest people there and vote out a younger person but Chrissy hates women very much to think like that. I bet that if Ben was in danger that night she would have saved him saying the old people should stay together. Ewww I am sad to say I dislike her a lot and I wish there was a way I could never see her smug face again.

At that point, in the early Hero tribe, Chrissy didn't have the power to save ANYONE. JP, Ashley, Alan, and Ben were initially working together - with the two older women on the outs. I bet Chrissy was just relieved that Katrina went instead of her. After that, she was able to get closer to Ben, after all the drama at her camp. But Chrissy was NOT responsible for Katrina going home, IMO. 

 

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

It could be because people, including myself, see Chrissy as the driving force behind her alliance. They see her as the one actually making all the decisions.

I do see Chrissy as the driving force, especially prior to the merge. But I still don't think she HATES women. She may get along better with guys, and that's okay. That's how some people are. I have a male friend who has a lot more female friends than other males, but he doesn't hate dudes. I still think all the votes she has had a hand in have had perfectly sound strategic reasons behind them. So I see no evidence that she's targeting women just for being women. 

[blackwing]

52 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

I am however bummed to read that so many find the season "boring" because if that's the general sentiment, we can expect "characters" to be more prominent in future seasons. Which is not something I'd look forward to.   

I'm finding it boring because it seems to me that only a handful of people (Joe, Ryan Chrissy) seem to actually be playing the game. The rest are just followers.  Some are just outright passive non-entities - Devon, JP, Ashley.  Really, what have any of those done in this game?  What ever happened to this budding "power couple" that was JP and Ashley?  Have we even seen them speak to each other since they were reunited?  

Others are just flippers who just go with whatever alliance won't vote them out - Ben, Lauren, Mike.  Their only move was deciding to abandon the healers.  When Lauren found the advantage, in her mind she should be thinking about her final three and cluing them in on the endgame.  Instead, she seemed befuddled, she cast her non-vote and said something like "I really hope this is somehow going to benefit me".  A real player would have already have hatched a plan.  The last one left, Cole, is now mostly alone and too dumb to do anything about it other than hope to win the physical challenges.

That's why I find it boring.  I'm not saying people should be making moves just for the sake of making moves, because then we would end up with a season full of Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera, one of the most overrated players ever, or self-proclaimed Kaos Kass, who wasn't as clever as she thought.  But still.  At least some evidence of gameplay would be nice.

[himela]

8 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Chrissy was NOT responsible for Katrina going home, IMO

She had the immunity idol and she could have chosen who to vote out instead. Then Katrina would owe her forever and she'd be a great ally. But of course Chrissy had to hate her. :P

[ghoulina]

5 minutes ago, himela said:

She had the immunity idol and she could have chosen who to vote out instead. Then Katrina would owe her forever and she'd be a great ally. But of course Chrissy had to hate her. :P

I respect her choice not to use the Idol on someone she'd just met, while SHE (Chrissy) was likely to be next on the tribe to go. They still would have been in the minority, and she would have pissed the other 3 off. Instead, after Katrina left, she was able to wiggle her way in to a better position in the tribe. I don't see why she owed any allegiance to Katrina. It's not like they were alliance partners. They were just two outcasts. 

[ljenkins782]

15 minutes ago, himela said:

She had the immunity idol and she could have chosen who to vote out instead. Then Katrina would owe her forever and she'd be a great ally. But of course Chrissy had to hate her. :P

Huh? There is zero evidence that Chrissy hated Katrina. Like others have said, it was her or Katrina and there was no reason to draw attention to herself by playing an idol and knocking out someone from the group of 4. That would have left 3 pissed off people vs her and Katrina. The very first TC is pretty early to be shown as a serious player, IMO, she played it just right by laying low and quietly working her way into a closer relationship with the one player in the "big alliance" who seemed most likely to be open to other options. And since she and Ben are still close allies, that move clearly worked out for her. 

[NutMeg]

8 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm finding it boring because it seems to me that only a handful of people (Joe, Ryan Chrissy) seem to actually be playing the game. The rest are just followers.  Some are just outright passive non-entities - Devon, JP, Ashley.  Really, what have any of those done in this game?  What ever happened to this budding "power couple" that was JP and Ashley?  Have we even seen them speak to each other since they were reunited?  

Others are just flippers who just go with whatever alliance won't vote them out - Ben, Lauren, Mike.  Their only move was deciding to abandon the healers.  When Lauren found the advantage, in her mind she should be thinking about her final three and cluing them in on the endgame.  Instead, she seemed befuddled, she cast her non-vote and said something like "I really hope this is somehow going to benefit me".  A real player would have already have hatched a plan.  The last one left, Cole, is now mostly alone and too dumb to do anything about it other than hope to win the physical challenges.

That's why I find it boring.  I'm not saying people should be making moves just for the sake of making moves, because then we would end up with a season full of Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera, one of the most overrated players ever, or self-proclaimed Kaos Kass, who wasn't as clever as she thought.  But still.  At least some evidence of gameplay would be nice.

Thanks for replying, and I get where you're coming from. I guess I must be more optimistic than you are and thinking we might still have surprises from Ashley, Ben, Cole (who's a weird idol clue savant), Mike (who still has an idol, right?), Devon (who had that strong tie with Ryan that we strangely haven't heard about since the merge - is it still on and they are playing it on the low key? Is Ryan cheating on Devon with Chrissy? Are the all in cahoots for the heist of the century but keeping it on the down low? Are all three on the same page?), Lauren and her extra vote, JP and his, what, connection to Chrissy? Ashley? The Gym? Jeff Probst?

I'm sooooooooooooo looking forward to how it will turn out. At this point, I'd be happy with ANY remaining player winning. I don't have a horse in the game (though I'm bummed that Chrissy is getting a really bad rap when all I see is a masterful game, which would make her a deserving winner), anyone who pulls this one will deserve it. 

[Iwassterlingarcher]

Question:  (sorry if this has been asked before)

In the initial TC vote, Lauren "played" her advantage by not voting, putting the advantage scroll in the urn and saving the blank sheet in her bra for a future TC.

How did she know NOT to vote in the re-vote?  Clearly the producers couldn't stop the taping and advise her.....  Do we think the directions on the advantage scroll were that detailed as to direct her specifically, on a revote, to fold up her (2nd) blank sheet and push it over the edge of the voting table?  

If that's the case, then the producers really have to trust that she'll follow these directions to the "T".  I understand they can shift the order of how the votes are read so if she put a blank sheet in the urn, they could've taken it back out..

Just wonderin....

[piequinn35]

8 minutes ago, Iwassterlingarcher said:

Question:  (sorry if this has been asked before)

In the initial TC vote, Lauren "played" her advantage by not voting, putting the advantage scroll in the urn and saving the blank sheet in her bra for a future TC.

How did she know NOT to vote in the re-vote?  Clearly the producers couldn't stop the taping and advise her.....  Do we think the directions on the advantage scroll were that detailed as to direct her specifically, on a revote, to fold up her (2nd) blank sheet and push it over the edge of the voting table?  

If that's the case, then the producers really have to trust that she'll follow these directions to the "T".  I understand they can shift the order of how the votes are read so if she put a blank sheet in the urn, they could've taken it back out..

Just wonderin....

In her confessional after she found the advantage, the production could have told her the details and also if there's a revote.

[Guest]

I figure they told her in the re-vote booth itself, too.  They don't have to stop taping.  They just whisper 'push a sheet off the table and pretend to put something in the urn and go back'.  

I wouldn't put too much weight on people here not liking this season.  That's a constant.  I don't think there's been a really well-liked season ever here except maybe Second Chances?  

I like this season but I like when the nerdier ones and misfits last.  We've got a super-nerd in Ryan, a nerdy little doctor dude in Mike, a nerdy older woman in Chrissy, an overweightish mom Lauren, a sweet hunky dork in Devon...  I don't know, no one's really pushing my hate meter, which I like.  

I don't like it when a blowhard bro-liance or a returnee runs the game so I'm good.  

I also like to see people play HARD and that's what I see from many in this bunch-- Chrissy, Ryan, Joe, at least. 

When was the last time we had quitters?  I hate seasons that are so rough or so poorly cast that people quit.  Or so rough they're filled with med-evacs and injuries.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Guest

[NutMeg]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I'm finding it boring because it seems to me that only a handful of people (Joe, Ryan Chrissy) seem to actually be playing the game. The rest are just followers.  Some are just outright passive non-entities - Devon, JP, Ashley.  Really, what have any of those done in this game?  What ever happened to this budding "power couple" that was JP and Ashley?  Have we even seen them speak to each other since they were reunited?  

Others are just flippers who just go with whatever alliance won't vote them out - Ben, Lauren, Mike.  Their only move was deciding to abandon the healers.  When Lauren found the advantage, in her mind she should be thinking about her final three and cluing them in on the endgame.  Instead, she seemed befuddled, she cast her non-vote and said something like "I really hope this is somehow going to benefit me".  A real player would have already have hatched a plan.  The last one left, Cole, is now mostly alone and too dumb to do anything about it other than hope to win the physical challenges.

That's why I find it boring.  I'm not saying people should be making moves just for the sake of making moves, because then we would end up with a season full of Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera, one of the most overrated players ever, or self-proclaimed Kaos Kass, who wasn't as clever as she thought.  But still.  At least some evidence of gameplay would be nice.

I wish we had talking heads with each player, each episode, to get an idea where their thinking is. Because as it stands, we're all hostages of editing, which only gives us what they want us to see. Even if some players have big roles to play in the future (not only Natalie Bolton, but some other winners were undershowed, including Sandra, Natalie White...), they don't always show it. But what I wish we saw, for each player, is how they play to win, or how they are actually not aiming for the win, and how they will do it, and why. When that happens, even with the boringest cast that ever bored, I'll be the happiest watcher.

[blackwing]

16 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

When was the last time we had quitters?  I hate seasons that are so rough or so poorly cast that people quit.  Or so rough they're filled with med-evacs and injuries.

On one of the White Collar / Blue Collar / No Collar variations, I think it might have been Beauty Brains Brawn... the youngish white girl hairdresser with the dreadlocks.  I think her name was Lindsay?  She quit.  I believe she even wrote "I Quit" in the sand by some big rock?  I forget her reason, she just broke down and couldn't handle it.

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, Special K said:

But I always appreciate the player who, having been betrayed, comes back to camp and says "well played, guys, you really got me."  I do think Joe is like this (and maybe has said something like that). 

Yes Joe has said something like that and it's a big part of why I can't hate him. I also really appreciated his 'a little bit of both' response to whoever said maybe he's being strategic or maybe he really is a dick. Joe appears to have the most self-awareness of all the players and that goes a long way with me. It's actually really unusual to see players on these types of shows have much self-awareness.

57 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I like this season but I like when the nerdier ones and misfits last. We've got a super-nerd in Ryan, a nerdy little doctor dude in Mike, a nerdy older woman in Chrissy ...

This might be part of what I don't like about this season. I am so completely over nerds on Survivor. I wouldn't put Chrissy in that category, but Ryan and Mike are for sure the quintessential Survivor nerd and I'm just over it. 

[TVFan1]

Although I wasn't a fan of Cole or Joe at the beginning of the season, I have grown to root for them. I was actually pulling for Cole to win the immunity challenge. At tribal council, I would have rather kept Desi over Joe, but I like seeing Joe's strategy and game. Compared to the big alliance of 7, Cole and Joe don't seem too bad.

[NutMeg]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

On one of the White Collar / Blue Collar / No Collar variations, I think it might have been Beauty Brains Brawn... the youngish white girl hairdresser with the dreadlocks.  I think her name was Lindsay?  She quit.  I believe she even wrote "I Quit" in the sand by some big rock?  I forget her reason, she just broke down and couldn't handle it.

One more reason why I wished we could see each player's process and mind frame instead of the edit decided by TPTB.

45 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yes Joe has said something like that and it's a big part of why I can't hate him. I also really appreciated his 'a little bit of both' response to whoever said maybe he's being strategic or maybe he really is a dick. Joe appears to have the most self-awareness of all the players and that goes a long way with me. It's actually really unusual to see players on these types of shows have much self-awareness.

This might be part of what I don't like about this season. I am so completely over nerds on Survivor. I wouldn't put Chrissy in that category, but Ryan and Mike are for sure the quintessential Survivor nerd and I'm just over it. 

I can see why Mike is deemed a "nerd", although I'm sure he's more than that, but good luck on TPTB giving him more depth, but I'm quite surprised with how Ryan has been compared to other seasons nerds - Cochran, for instance: I don't see much in common here with Cochran 1.0: Ryan is comfortable in his skin, allies with a "jock" and an "older woman" - yikes, just using stereotypes, I think Devon is more of a nerd than a jock, and Chrissy is more of a player than what "older woman" would limit her to -, and is actually quite good in challenges, in the way a marathon runner would be good: he's fast, agile, the only time I can remember him being bad was when they had to push things while writhing in the sand, otherwise, he was also there fast with the bunch!

What players did you like in the past? I'm curious :)

Edited November 17, 2017 by NutMeg

[iMonrey]

Quote

I am however bummed to read that so many find the season "boring" because if that's the general sentiment, we can expect "characters" to be more prominent in future seasons. Which is not something I'd look forward to.

The only one I really dislike is Joe, and even he's not nearly as heinous as some previous players (cough*Hantz*cough) so overall I'm fine with the cast. As for the game itself - it's still a little early to pick a favorite. At this point a lot of people are balancing on a fine line between strategizing and staying under the radar so they aren't viewed as a threat. People don't really start making big moves until it's down to seven or eight.

[peachmangosteen]

@NutMeg 'Survivor nerds' aren't necessarily the same thing as the normal nerd stereotype. 

I've liked a lot of different types of players, although almost always women. I don't know, they just rarely cast men that I find interesting. My fave male player is probably Penner and that's almost entirely just because I think he's attractive and I like his voice. Sandra is my all-time fave and I don't see anyone ever replacing her. As far as people who won that I loved and was rooting for there's Parvati, Natalie W, Natalie A, Michele, Danni, and Sophie. And I adored Courtney. I also loved Aubry. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Guest]

I also love the unlikely duos like Chrissy/Ryan and Malcolm/Denise.  Devon/Ryan was interesting for a minute there, too.  I know Tocantins isn't widely loved here but I loved the JT/Stephen duo.  Rudy/Hatch is another great one.  

[peachmangosteen]

Ryan/Chrissy doesn't seem like an unlikely duo to me. They actually seem super similar to me in a lot of ways, especially gameplay wise. Ryan/Devon are an unlikely duo to me though. But I really wish Devon would cut Ryan lose because I like Devon and hate Ryan.

Edited November 17, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

That wasn't too big of a food reward.  And I think they do eat out there, despite what they claim.  I think they're still given subsistence level rice rations, at least. 

In Desi's Ponderosa video, she makes a comment about eating nothing but rice for three weeks.  

We never see them cooking or eating it anymore, or even the bag of rice, which makes me wonder if production just rations it out daily in cooked form to each player along with sunscreen and meds, to avoid food sabotage, spoilage, and unfair sharing and such.  And lawsuits over gall bladder or other damage from temporary malnutrition.  I know Ashley had a confessional about having NOTHING to eat out there, not even rice, and they could LITERALLY DIE but I think that's b.s. or at least hyperbole.  She even kind of looked like she was trying not to smile as she said it, to me, because she knew it was pushing it.  

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Ryan/Chrissy doesn't seem like an unlikely duo to me.

Yeah, in some ways they seem very alike-- super fans, cerebral, confident, playing hard and not always nice.  But they're so different otherwise:  gender, age, fitness level, education, socioeconomics.  That's what I find interesting.  

[NutMeg]

15 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

@NutMeg 'Survivor nerds' aren't necessarily the same thing as the normal nerd stereotype. 

I've liked a lot of different types of players, although almost always women. I don't know, they just rarely cast men that I find interesting. My fave male player is probably Penner and that's almost entirely just because I think he's attractive and I like his voice. Sandra is my all-time fave and I don't see anyone ever replacing her. As far as people who won that I loved and was rooting for there's Parvati, Natalie W, Natalie A, Michele, Danni, and Sophie. And I adored Courtney. I also loved Aubry. 

Well, we have something in common, I too was rooting for Parvati and Danni, two of my top winners. And Sandra, of course, both times, though she really surprised me he second time. And really, look at all the winners you quoted, and remember how little we saw of them the season they won, so we could see more of TPTB's choices.

But Penner, really? :( He's an interesting person and fun and all, and he has nice blue eyes, but he is probably the worst nerd player who ever played  - like, I'd love to spend an evening hearing him speak, but seriously, the guy is the absolute opposite of a Survivor savant: he knows what he should do, and he goes for the reverse!:)

No, no, women own this, anything else is an off season :)

[peachmangosteen]

17 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

But Penner, really? :( He's an interesting person and fun and all, and he has nice blue eyes, but he is probably the worst nerd player who ever played  - like, I'd love to spend an evening hearing him speak, but seriously, the guy is the absolute opposite of a Survivor savant: he knows what he should do, and he goes for the reverse!

You're absolutely right. Penner is kind of the worst. But those eyes! And that salt and pepper hair!

I actually also liked Cochran in his first season, but I deeply regret that now so it doesn't count!

Plus I loved David a lot and he was very Survivor nerdy.

But like I said, I'm just over that archetype. We've seen it a million times, like let's move on.

[KimberStormer]

18 hours ago, SVNBob said:

No, it's one plus two plus one plus one.  And the last is for the chandelier.

But speaking of math, Ben was wrong.  This was not the time to split the votes in case of an idol, even before Lauren's advantage came into account.

This is war, Peacock!

That's what got me about this whole plan.  It couldn't have worked anyway!  Unless we weren't shown something, e.g. Ben actually got Cole on board before he even talked to Mike.

17 hours ago, Daisy said:

to the second (and i couldn't find your your post that talks about voting patterns, which is a shame) - and do you mind if I ask why? I do feel a lot of people feel this way, and it really intrigues me why that is important to the point that you'd bail on the show or freak out about the season. 

I understand your question and think it's a good one, but I hope you'll forgive me if I say: I'm really sorry,  but I also really really do not want to answer this question.  I thought about how to, and gave up on it.  I'm sure someone else can capture my feelings on the matter better than I can.

14 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

I don't think a lie like that would be to her advantage. If she uses the extra vote at a future tribal, people will realize that there are too many votes and tie it back to Lauren's not voting.

(This is about saying her vote was canceled like Devon's was earlier)  I disagree, I think Devon's canceled vote gives her the perfect cover, if needed, and once she's used her advantage, who cares if they know it?  Better they do, for Lauren's FTC 'resume'.  People know when you use an idol -- who cares if they know when you use your advantage?

However I believe in the actual fact, none of these dummies realized there were too few votes.  The chaotic vote, with the throwaways on Ben and Lauren, probably helped to hide it.

10 hours ago, Daisy said:

I love what's going on strat. wise. but i find it boring because i don't feel connected to these people. i think had ti been a two tribe, and we focused all the characters more, i would find it less so. but i always hate 3 tribes. 

People say this but I don't understand it.  How does 2 tribes make it easier to know who's who?  With three tribes everyone's vote is totally critical so everyone has to be shown, whereas in two tribe seasons you just hide in your alliance under the radar.  The only reason I can see is that they group everyone together by traits so it's harder to remember people who are similar...but in this season the categories are even more meaningless than before.

3 tribes are unstable, like the three-body problem in physics!  Pagonging is less of a thing!  3 tribes forever, I say.  But get rid of the fucking themes.

9 hours ago, blackwing said:

Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera

Boards on boards, KimberStormer.  Boards on boards.

[MissEwa]

2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

People say this but I don't understand it.  How does 2 tribes make it easier to know who's who?  With three tribes everyone's vote is totally critical so everyone has to be shown, whereas in two tribe seasons you just hide in your alliance under the radar.  The only reason I can see is that they group everyone together by traits so it's harder to remember people who are similar...but in this season the categories are even more meaningless than before.

3 tribes are unstable, like the three-body problem in physics!  Pagonging is less of a thing!  3 tribes forever, I say.  But get rid of the fucking themes.

This this this. For me 3 tribes is the perfect starting off point - with six in each I can get names to faces quickly but you're not *as* exposed as in the four-tribe seasons early on. And 3-tribe seasons are so often just a big old mess at the merge and it's great. I love the way it tends to allow smaller alliances to become swing votes and work their way through against odds - there's no way a duo like Malcolm and Denise would have gone nearly as far in a 2-tribe season, IMO. 

As to @Daisy's question... I'm also hesitant to answer, and I don't speak at all for Kimberstormer at all, but for me... it just feels off. For me, it feels doubly off this season because I feel like we were having this exact same conversation at this point in MvGX, where, what, six of the first seven boots were women, and five were WOC (I might be off slightly there but I can't be bothered googling it). And while that seems like a long time ago, it wasn't. It was the last newbie season. And it was the same story then, that you could argue there was a reason for every single one of the votes. And people argued that there were other seasons where it was even, or the first boots were men, and, in a way, *I* am almost more bothered by the arguing. I think most people who are bothered by this aren't accusing the rest of the players of misogyny or racism, but it feels like you can't just say 'ugh, that's disappointing' without people getting defensive and telling you you're wrong and explaining the votes, as though we don't understand how the game works, and that... is also upsetting. It just feels bad. 

I like seeing all sorts of people on this show, I like to see people who aren't the standard survivor 'types' doing well and being popular - both on the island and off - because I hope that if they do they'll cast more of them. And I'm not just talking gender or race. I'd love to see more castaways with disabilites, where it's not necessarily a huge talking point but just a fact. I loved how Hannah could have a panic attack and anxiety and have it be a non-issue by the time she reached F3, and the 'you shouldn't go on survivor if you have PTSD' conversations this season are bumming me out. 

But, yeah. I can't explain exactly why either. 

[Eolivet]

20 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

@NutMeg 'Survivor nerds' aren't necessarily the same thing as the normal nerd stereotype. 

Agreed, although is Mike a "Survivor nerd?" Mike seems like a nerd-nerd. Maybe I've blocked it out, but I haven't heard many "as a student of this game ..." confessionals from Mike.

Though I'd take a season of all Survivor nerds over recruits (blech, those mid-2000s mactor-heavy seasons still make me cringe), but I feel like there has to be a happy medium. Give me someone who knows and likes the game, but doesn't go on reddit or Edgic or play Survivor games online. I want Survivor fans, not Survivor gamebots. Someone who raises an eyebrow when you talk about "social game," like it's an actual thing and not just a Survivor thing (Ryan ... Chrissy).

I want to see "a student of this game" who gets a C in Survivor. Average Survivor knowledge -- enough to pass, but not enough to ace every freaking Survivor test. Jay on Millennials vs Gen X was a good example, to me. He was aware of the game, but didn't make a big deal about it. I think we need more of that type, not the A++ and do the extra credit work students.

I want students of the game who when Teacher Probst asks a question, they might know the answer, but they also might be goofing off on their phones or zoning out and not paying attention. Then they bring a little more of themselves into how they play, and become a lot more interesting.

(and I know Jay voted out Michaela. We all have our faults.)

[violet and green]

1 hour ago, Eolivet said:

Agreed, although is Mike a "Survivor nerd?" Mike seems like a nerd-nerd. Maybe I've blocked it out, but I haven't heard many "as a student of this game ..." confessionals from Mike.

Mike has referenced things his ten-year-old son told him to do/not do on Survivor, so no, not a Survivor nerd himself.

[Lamima]

There are Survivor super fan nerds and then just needs. I like both because usually a regular nerd (not fan of the show so much) can still work out how to play the game. Unless they are more a geek, like Debbie, who has no awareness of the game and no awareness about the other people playing. I like strategic folks and they are usually nerds. One could say Joe is a Survivor nerd. 

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Agreed, although is Mike a "Survivor nerd?" Mike seems like a nerd-nerd.

He's kind of a combo imo. But I actually kinda like Mike sometimes. Although maybe not anymore since he's just a mindless follow who will do nothing to stop the boring pagonging that's coming. I hope he's voted out with his idol.