S11.E07: I Love Candy!

[Bridget]

2 hours ago, SMama said:

The picture above is from the aquarium in NOLA. We visited shortly after the family was there. Now I don’t feel bad about how many aquariums we have visited since SDaughter came home. None in CA so far, but every state we have visited. Hey, that’s weird.

It's not as big as the ones I've seen on TV, but the Birch Aquarium in San Diego is pretty popular with tourists. Many schools go on field trips there as well, but it's definitely not as varied in terms of exhibits nor does it have has many activities/options as others across the country because of Sea World (I vehemently boycott that place) being so close in proximity. However, the SD Zoo is pretty awesome. Totally different atmosphere, I know, but I highly recommend it to anyone who makes it out this way!

Edited November 3, 2017 by Bridget
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[Kid]

10 minutes ago, Sasha888 said:

 

I've noticed several people mention "the look"...and it's a great idea, I agree with you all, but I just want to point out that "the look" works because there are consequences behind it. I know the look. I've gotten the look...but what snapped me back in line was what I knew would come after the look.

 

And that is why it works when Zoey does it.  Because the parents know a tantrum is going to follow “the look” so they scramble to avoid that consequence.

[Sasha888]

You are absolutely right, Kid. The wrong people in this family have mastered "the look"! Good point.

[SMama]

I feel better now about boycotting Sea World, thanks to Blackfish (is that the name of the CNN doc?). When I heard the cries of the mother whale when separated from her calf I actually cried.  That's the kind of sap I am, but it was heartbreaking. SBaba LOVES penguins, especially Emperor penguins, and it's been difficult not taking SDaughter there. Even before the documentary I had issues with Orcas in captivity. I'm pretty sure Will and Zoey will soon get a Sea World trip, with the obligatory behind the scenes tour. Hopefully it will include the Penguin Encounter.

[Bridget]

4 minutes ago, SMama said:

I feel better now about boycotting Sea World, thanks to Blackfish (is that the name of the CNN doc?). When I heard the cries of the mother whale when separated from her calf I actually cried.  That's the kind of sap I am, but it was heartbreaking. SBaba LOVES penguins, especially Emperor penguins, and it's been difficult not taking SDaughter there. Even before the documentary I had issues with Orcas in captivity. I'm pretty sure Will and Zoey will soon get a Sea World trip, with the obligatory behind the scenes tour. Hopefully it will include the Penguin Encounter.

You are right - it is called "Blackfish" and is available for streaming on Netflix.

That was MY exact breaking point!

After it being suggested by the students, because I am open to their suggestions when they're appropriate/reasonable, I used it as a teaching tool to teach critical arguments and literally stood outside of the room while the kids finished watching it. I just couldn't stand listening to that scene - it hurt my heart badly. I was also stunned to learn about the difference in dialects that orcas have! I never knew that! Tried to explain to the kids that it'd be like having nine other people in your group, but no one spoke the same language. It was gut wrenching - I do NOT recommend it to anyone if they're sensitive to animals and/or mute the ASPCA commercial with the Sarah McLachlin song.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Bridget
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[walnutqueen]

40 minutes ago, Bridget said:

It's not as big as the ones I've seen on TV, but the Birch Aquarium in San Diego is pretty popular with tourists. Many schools go on field trips there as well, but it's definitely not as varied in terms of exhibits nor does it have has many activities/options as others across the country because of Sea World (I vehemently boycott that place) being so close in proximity. However, the SD Zoo is pretty awesome. Totally different atmosphere, I know, but I highly recommend it to anyone who makes it out this way!

Don't forget the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.  I used to buy a membership that gave me and a guest unlimited visits to the Zoo & Safari Park, plus free parking & coupons - it was a bargain.  Also, Butterfly Farms in Encinitas is inexpensive, educational and delightful.  Quail Gardens has some fun stuff for the kids and lovely lights at Xmas.  I found many places to take my young niece in lieu of Seaworld, as I was staunchly opposed to that place even in the early 90s (although both nieces got one special trip to Seaworld to swim with the dolphins thanks to their Mum's connections).

[Bridget]

1 minute ago, walnutqueen said:

Don't forget the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.  I used to buy a membership that gave me and a guest unlimited visits to the Zoo & Safari Park, plus free parking & coupons - it was a bargain.  Also, Butterfly Farms in Encinitas is inexpensive, educational and delightful.  Quail Gardens has some fun stuff for the kids and lovely lights at Xmas.  I found many places to take my young niece in lieu of Seaworld, as I was staunchly opposed to that place even in the early 90s (although both nieces got one special trip to Seaworld to swim with the dolphins thanks to their Mum's connections).

The Wild Animal Park is great - and during the holidays too! They do a great holiday village and bring in snow.

About ten years ago, I knew someone who worked at SeaWorld before I saw "Blackfish" and I did get a VIP/behind the scenes tour...and I can still remember, as if it happened yesterday, seeing how damn big the polar bears really are and how ridiculously cute the baby Beluga whales were. No words to describe that level of preciousness! I never would have even parked my car in the parking lot had I seen "Blackfish" prior to the tour.

[walnutqueen]

16 minutes ago, Bridget said:

The Wild Animal Park is great - and during the holidays too! They do a great holiday village and bring in snow.

About ten years ago, I knew someone who worked at SeaWorld before I saw "Blackfish" and I did get a VIP/behind the scenes tour...and I can still remember, as if it happened yesterday, seeing how damn big the polar bears really are and how ridiculously cute the baby Beluga whales were. No words to describe that level of preciousness! I never would have even parked my car in the parking lot had I seen "Blackfish" prior to the tour.

I know what you mean.  I went to SeaWorld in the early 80s, when the big dolphin pool was accessible, and the dolphins would splash visitors, just to see them jump and hear them shriek.  I did neither, and 2 dolphins played with me while i petted them.  They both put their chins in my cupped hands and pushed down hard until I was "lifting" them out of the water.  It was quite magical (and, in hindsight, somewhat regrettable).  SeaWorld can put on all the conservation/rescue commercials they want - I won't forgive them for what they've done.

I always enjoyed the educational aspects of the places I took my nieces; even explaining the subtle differences between the Zoo and SeaWorld was a "teaching moment" for me.

[floridamom]

Another observation here:  I think Jen is speaking way too many words to her children. I remember being advised when my children were little that using LESS WORDS with MORE MEANING was the way to go. Otherwise my children would simply tune me out. Jen speaks volumes to the kids; trying desperately to be 'polite', 'non intrusive with them', giving them choices etc...nonsense. Speak clearly and simply to them and FOLLOW THROUGH.

[abbey]

I remember in a much earlier episode when he was younger Jen actually put Will in a time out because he got angry and something she told him to do and he hit her.  She disciplined him appropriately there, it is so unfortunate we don't see more of that.  Although I suppose they don't want to show too much of that kind of stuff because they are school age now and their classmates might see the show.  However if they were disciplining them when the cameras weren't on I think we would see much better behavior when the cameras weren't on. 

[winsomeone]

Do people who live in two million dollar mansions actually do any house work, cooking, or child care?  I have a feeling that much of the child care is done by nannies when they are not filming. Jen often seems uncomfortable around the kids, and they have been with her for years now? Maybe that is because she has little hands on experience with them?

[AZChristian]

4 hours ago, abbey said:

I remember in a much earlier episode when he was younger Jen actually put Will in a time out because he got angry and something she told him to do and he hit her.  She disciplined him appropriately there, it is so unfortunate we don't see more of that.  Although I suppose they don't want to show too much of that kind of stuff because they are school age now and their classmates might see the show.  However if they were disciplining them when the cameras weren't on I think we would see much better behavior when the cameras weren't on. 

I think what I've changed above is what you meant to say, and - if so - I agree completely.  

If the kids are being disciplined and trained to behave appropriately, that would impact their behavior AT ALL TIMES.  When my kids were that age, I often heard people talk about how their own kids behaved well when the parents were there, but acted out in public, or vice versa.  My kids knew that if they acted out at home OR in public, there would be consequences.  Will and Zoey are at an age where their parents can (and should) say something like, "We are going to the aquarium with our house guests.  While we are there, you are to stay with our group.  Do NOT wander off.  Do NOT jump in front of the line.  Do NOT scream (unless you see a fire and are warning people).  If you disobey, you will sit in time-out with one of your parents while the other kids continue to enjoy the aquarium.  Do you understand?  Repeat back to me what I just said."

If these kids are not taught appropriate behaviors and expectations, how will they know what they are?  By allowing them to run free, disobey tour guides and wander off wherever and whenever they wish, they are teaching them that it's okay for them to do these things.  And - again harping on my ongoing concern - it is not SAFE for anyone when kids behave this way.  Can they act like kids?  Of course.  Can they laugh and enjoy themselves?  OF COURSE.  But they also should not be impacting the enjoyment of those around them by their loud and disobedient behavior.

Edited November 3, 2017 by AZChristian

[Mya]

1 hour ago, winsomeone said:

Do people who live in two million dollar mansions actually do any house work, cooking, or child care?  I have a feeling that much of the child care is done by nannies when they are not filming. Jen often seems uncomfortable around the kids, and they have been with her for years now? Maybe that is because she has little hands on experience with them?

My husband and I also noticed how uncomfortable Jen appears to be.  I wonder if she finds parenting extremely stressful and difficult I know allot of other mothers who feel this way including myself.  She seems much more relaxed and confident in the scenes at work IMO.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, winsomeone said:

Do people who live in two million dollar mansions actually do any house work, cooking, or child care?  I have a feeling that much of the child care is done by nannies when they are not filming. Jen often seems uncomfortable around the kids, and they have been with her for years now? Maybe that is because she has little hands on experience with them?

I think Bill and Jen are awesome people, but I don't believe parenting comes naturally for either one of them. I believe they love their kids to death and would spend every dime they have to ensure Will and Zoe get the help they need, but neither is very skilled in executing the day to day tasks involved in childcare. They've always been upfront about having a nanny, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that, but I think the hired help does way more of the heavy lifting than we're led to believe. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by BitterApple

[sharwoods]

I wanted to respond to people who admired the parenting style of  Amber and Trent Johnston (from Seven Little Johnstons).  I was watching reruns of the show from a few years ago and Amber mentioned that their daughter Anna (who is now 15 or 16 years old) was adopted from Russia when she was four years old.  Her circumstances were similar to that of Will in that she had spent her entire life in an orphanage and was developmentally delayed.  In fact, Amber stressed that she illustrated no language skills at all!  Anyway, she has made remarkable progress although Amber admits that Anna still struggles academically at times.  The important point I want to make is that Anna is a very stubborn, headstrong young lady and the Johnstons are very strict with her, especially in terms of there being consequences for bad behavior.  She always shows respect for her parents.  When talking to Trent, she always says "yes, sir" when asked a question and she may not like the family rules but abides by them.  It is so important for Bill and Jen to have effective discipline for  Will and Zoey while they are young or it is going to be very tough, if not impossible, to exert any control over them once they become teenagers.   

[calpurnia99]

How old was Will when they got him from the orphanage? 

[Quof]

 He was 3. Each of the kids has been a Klein for more than half of their lifetime.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Quof

[SMama]

On 11/1/2017 at 6:36 AM, woodscommaelle said:

Good name for a bulk candy store:  Sugar Stuff.

Here we are so worried about Will's future and the kid is already on his way to becoming a branding expert. :) I do worry about that little guy, and do hope consistency and discipline get him to achieve great things. I'll even settle for normal things.

We have been to the SD Zoo and Safari Park. After posting I'm going to check out Butterfly Farms, because Xmas lights. We have stayed at the Mission Inn for the past three years to enjoy the lights (the pool lights are as awesome), but it's time for a change.

Edited November 3, 2017 by SMama

[Bridget]

1 hour ago, sharwoods said:

 The important point I want to make is that Anna is a very stubborn, headstrong young lady and the Johnstons are very strict with her, especially in terms of there being consequences for bad behavior.  She always shows respect for her parents.  When talking to Trent, she always says "yes, sir" when asked a question and she may not like the family rules but abides by them.  It is so important for Bill and Jen to have effective discipline for  Will and Zoey while they are young or it is going to be very tough, if not impossible, to exert any control over them once they become teenagers.   

This!!

Anna also responds to Amber the same way. Whenever Amber calls Anna's name, Anna always responds with "Ma'am?" as in "I'm here and present. What did you need?"

Trent has also been uber vocal about driving being a privilege in their home and it doesn't matter how old the kids are/what their friends are doing/what society dictates, Anna will not be driving until her parents think she is mature enough to handle it. I want to hug them for this.

Trent and Amber trust their instincts about their kids, and know that Anna probably can't be trusted until she demonstrates XYZ, which I wish more parents did.

[alegtostandon]

When my nephews were 5 & 6 years old, their maternal great grandparents would place them in high chairs-yes, high chairs! when they would not behave while eating. GGP's were in their 60's & watched them. They were told if they were going to act like infants then they would be treated like infants.  I could not believe they did not rebel but they knew they messed up when that happened. This was done in private tho.

As far as placing Will & Zoey in a stroller while out in public, they are much too old. Will may be short for a 6 year old but he is solid!  When he would "see something shiny" (I love that!), he would jump out, Bill or Jen could not stop him. They need to start teaching him one word that means "we mean business" & only use it when they are serious.  

Hopefully, this out of control behavior is for cameras only.

As far as making memories & the kids being too young to remember, when I was 5-6 years old, we lived in Virginia, about 30 minutes outside of Washington DC. We went to the White House, Capitol, Washington Monument, Smithsonian, etc several times. I remember each one. 

[walnutqueen]

31 minutes ago, SMama said:

We have been to the SD Zoo and Safari Park. After posting I'm going to check out Butterfly Farms, because Xmas lights. We have stayed at the Mission Inn for the past three years to enjoy the lights (the pool lights are as awesome), but it's time for a change.

@SMama - I don't know if Butterfly Farms has anything special going on at Xmas - you can check out their website or call them : http://butterflyfarms.org/.  

Quail Gardens in Encinitas has a nice Xmas light display (and a new name - it is now San Diego Botanic Garden).  The Safari Park and Balboa Park both have great Xmas light display,s too, and lots of activities for kids.

My Mum and I had planned to visit the Mission Inn Xmas light display, but she never made it back down here.   I don't think I'd have the heart to do it alone.  :-(

[Bridget]

3 hours ago, AZChristian said:

If the kids are being disciplined and trained to behave appropriately, that would impact their behavior AT ALL TIMES.  When my kids were that age, I often heard people talk about how their own kids behaved well when the parents were there, but acted out in public, or vice versa. 

My kids knew that if they acted out at home OR in public, there would be consequences.  Will and Zoey are at an age where their parents can (and should) say something like, "We are going to the aquarium with our house guests.  While we are there, you are to stay with our group.  Do NOT wander off.  Do NOT jump in front of the line.  Do NOT scream (unless you see a fire and are warning people).  If you disobey, you will sit in time-out with one of your parents while the other kids continue to enjoy the aquarium.  Do you understand?  Repeat back to me what I just said."

By allowing them to run free, disobey tour guides and wander off wherever and whenever they wish, they are teaching them that it's okay for them to do these things.  And - again harping on my ongoing concern - it is not SAFE for anyone when kids behave this way.  Can they act like kids?  Of course.  Can they laugh and enjoy themselves?  OF COURSE.  But they also should not be impacting the enjoyment of those around them by their loud and disobedient behavior.

Everything about this is the best.

I laughed so hard at the bolded part.

It's true on so many levels. I wish all parents thought about the safety of their kids and how their child's behavior as a ton do to with safety. "Don't talk to strangers" is not the only thing parents can do to make sure they stay safe. Without the intent of opening a can of worms, when someone explained Will & Zoey's "habit" of talking to strangers because "they don't know who their parents will be/are as a result of being in an orphanage", I cannot even imagine the struggle Bill and Jen will have with the Stranger Danger talk. I can still remember the password that my parents gave to us to make sure the right person picked us up from school "out of the blue" because in my elementary school days, it was safe for us to walk home, so we did.

I'm admit that I'm one of those people who asks really, really nicely (and quietly so I don't offend anyone nearby with kids) to not be seated near children when I go out to eat. I jokingly explain to the host/hostess that "I'm a teacher, so I can ask this...." I don't head to Chuck E. Cheese on a weekend, but since the idea of bedtimes & babysitters have been abandoned by many families (that I've seen), I don't want to be out on a date, celebrating a birthday or even out with my friends for dinner and have kids climbing over booths, hiding under tables or engaging in other inappropriate behavior. 

I know people pay their own hard earned money to enjoy a meal/trip/activity whether it's with adults only or with their kids and don't want these things ruined by kids who don't know how to behave. It makes me so livid when I see this happen.

That said, I'm also the random person who walks up to a well behaved family in public and praises the kids/parents for amazing manners. The parents smile and usually say "Yeah, we don't mess around and our kids know it" and the kids have smiles on their faces too. The next time you see amazing parenting in public, I seriously encourage each one of you to compliment them and see how amazing it makes EVERYONE feel. I also make sure I call home for the students I have in class who are amazing. Even at the high school level, the parents still love hearing a teacher call with a compliment, not a request to meet! True story: when I've had a particularly bad day, I make it a point to call at least three different families to compliment their student. It allows me to go home and not ruminate all night over the three nimrods who acted like morons. 

I've also said before that Kelly Jo and Gil, the Bringing Up Bates parents, literally rehearse with their kids how to line up quietly, how to walk into a public place, how to sit at a table in public, how to ask for things nicely and other essential things that kids NEED to be taught. Kelly Jo has even told her kids "no one wants to spend money to go out to eat and have it be ruined by people without manners." She did also did a "Manners 101" refresher course this season with her teenaged sons, which I thought was really wise of her. 

Reinforcing positive behavior is one of the best parts of my job, so I cannot imagine how heartwarming it must be for the parents who are able to do the same.

[AZChristian]

3 minutes ago, Bridget said:

Everything about this is the best.

I laughed so hard at the bolded part.

It's true on so many levels. I wish all parents thought about the safety of their kids and how their child's behavior as a ton do to with safety. "Don't talk to strangers" is not the only thing parents can do to make sure they stay safe. Without the intent of opening a can of worms, when someone explained Will & Zoey's "habit" of talking to strangers because "they don't know who their parents will be/are as a result of being in an orphanage", I cannot even imagine the struggle Bill and Jen will have with the Stranger Danger talk. I can still remember the password that my parents gave to us to make sure the right person picked us up from school "out of the blue" because in my elementary school days, it was safe for us to walk home, so we did.

I'm admit that I'm one of those people who asks really, really nicely (and quietly so I don't offend anyone nearby with kids) to not be seated near children when I go out to eat. I jokingly explain to the host/hostess that "I'm a teacher, so I can ask this...." I don't head to Chuck E. Cheese on a weekend, but since the idea of bedtimes & babysitters have been abandoned by many families (that I've seen), I don't want to be out on a date, celebrating a birthday or even out with my friends for dinner and have kids climbing over booths, hiding under tables or engaging in other inappropriate behavior. 

I know people pay their own hard earned money to enjoy a meal/trip/activity whether it's with adults only or with their kids and don't want these things ruined by kids who don't know how to behave. It makes me so livid when I see this happen.

That said, I'm also the random person who walks up to a well behaved family in public and praises the kids/parents for amazing manners. The parents smile and usually say "Yeah, we don't mess around and our kids know it" and the kids have smiles on their faces too. The next time you see amazing parenting in public, I seriously encourage each one of you to compliment them and see how amazing it makes EVERYONE feel. I also make sure I call home for the students I have in class who are amazing. Even at the high school level, the parents still love hearing a teacher call with a compliment, not a request to meet! True story: when I've had a particularly bad day, I make it a point to call at least three different families to compliment their student. It allows me to go home and not ruminate all night over the three nimrods who acted like morons. 

I've also said before that Kelly Jo and Gil, the Bringing Up Bates parents, literally rehearse with their kids how to line up quietly, how to walk into a public place, how to sit at a table in public, how to ask for things nicely and other essential things that kids NEED to be taught. Kelly Jo has even told her kids "no one wants to spend money to go out to eat and have it be ruined by people without manners." She did also did a "Manners 101" refresher course this season with her teenaged sons, which I thought was really wise of her. 

Reinforcing positive behavior is one of the best parts of my job, so I cannot imagine how heartwarming it must be for the parents who are able to do the same.

Thanks for your kind words . . . and thanks for agreeing with me!

I, too, often ask to be seated in the "child-free zone" in restaurants.  If they take me to a table that is adjacent to families with small children, I will say something like, "Oh, the view out the window over there is awesome.  May we sit there instead?"

We were once at a Luby's cafeteria and were sitting near a woman and her two daughters (they were about 7 and 4).  They were so well behaved that when we went to the cashier, we put down an additional $20, quietly pointed out the woman and her kids and said, "Please put this towards their bill.  And tell them that an anonymous person nearby just wanted to do something tangible to show appreciation for their excellent behavior."  (We were well known at this restaurant, so we trusted the cashier to do as we asked, rather than pocketing the $20.  LOL.)

I really do like kids, and would love to chat with them in line at the grocery store, etc.  But the weirdos of this world have made that into a situation where kids have to be suspicious of all strangers.  Sigh.

[Bridget]

1 minute ago, AZChristian said:

Thanks for your kind words . . . and thanks for agreeing with me!

I, too, often ask to be seated in the "child-free zone" in restaurants.  If they take me to a table that is adjacent to families with small children, I will say something like, "Oh, the view out the window over there is awesome.  May we sit there instead?"

We were once at a Luby's cafeteria and were sitting near a woman and her two daughters (they were about 7 and 4).  They were so well behaved that when we went to the cashier, we put down an additional $20, quietly pointed out the woman and her kids and said, "Please put this towards their bill.  And tell them that an anonymous person nearby just wanted to do something tangible to show appreciation for their excellent behavior."  (We were well known at this restaurant, so we trusted the cashier to do as we asked, rather than pocketing the $20.  LOL.)

I really do like kids, and would love to chat with them in line at the grocery store, etc.  But the weirdos of this world have made that into a situation where kids have to be suspicious of all strangers.  Sigh.

You're much nicer than I am! I usually end up asking through gritted, yet smiling teeth, "are there any other open areas?" I will have to keep my eye out for options similar to what you say when it happens again.

OK. Now I'm officially inspired to try to be more like you. In a good way! While it's ALL GOOD and still important, we've all heard about men and women in the military having their meals/drinks paid for (I live in a military area and all of my uncles served). In fact, on their last bromance vacation, my ex-boyfriend and his buddy were bumped up to first class from the LAX to Germany because someone saw their military IDs. 

Right?!?! I'm an outgoing person who can make friends with the person behind me at the grocery story, and as a teacher, I have a natural inclination to try to engage kids in conversation especially when I'm standing in a line (and out of my selfish & deep desire to get their noses out of tablets/phones!). "Did you pick out that book yourself? What do you like about it? If I've read _________, what should I try next?" #HateTheWeirdosWhoRuinedItForUs

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

I know people pay their own hard earned money to enjoy a meal/trip/activity whether it's with adults only or with their kids and don't want these things ruined by kids who don't know how to behave. It makes me so livid when I see this happen.

Here's my little trick - and I freely admit that I am an asshole. I only do this in relatively adult venues (not Chucky Cheese for example, but Chilis, Red lobster, reasonably "sit down and behave" places). If the kids nearby are being assholes, not staying in their seats, being loud....

I just start using the f-word and moderate my volume so the people I'm with can hear me discuss my period :) Or my last sexual encounter. Or the gay pride parade or how hot and fuckable I think various actors and actresses are. They either huff and leave because you know, how AWFUL! Or they attempt to confront me, and I point out that if their kid was sitting at their table not screaming, then I wouldn't need to speak so loudly to other adults in an adult space. Then I order another beer.

The one time someone dared ask a manager to shut me up, I told the manager to remind them that they were in a bar and I had every right to admire Tom Brady's sweet sweet ass on tv and why was a four year old in a sports bar at 8pm? I mean really. 

*I would never do this in a children orientated place and I rarely use this method unless its really egregiously bad behavior. 

[BitterApple]

Where I live, all the Walmarts are open 24 hours and you'll regularly see small children in there at 11 pm on a school night. Even for all the criticisms we might give Bill and Jen, they're not even within ten light years spitting distance of the Shitty Parents Spectrum. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by BitterApple

[SMama]

Sorry about your mum @walnutqueen, if you ever want to go just send me a DM. My girl is always up for light displays, it should get old by now. But no, the beat goes on. On topic, Will and Zoey are absolutely adorable, especially her arm rolls and Will's leg rolls. I'd have to stop myself from pinching them, and incarceration, if we met.

Edited November 5, 2017 by SMama

[BW Manilowe]

9 hours ago, abbey said:

I remember in a much earlier episode when he was younger Jen actually put Will in a time out because he got angry and something she told him to do and he hit her.  She disciplined him appropriately there, it is so unfortunate we don't see more of that. Although I suppose they don't want to show too much of that kind of stuff because they are school age now and their classmates might see the show.  However if they were disciplining them when the cameras weren't on I think we would see much better behavior when the cameras weren't on. 

That was, as far as I know, an ep from soon after they came home from China. For whatever reason, Jen set up paints & an easel somewhere that wasn't completely baby proofed for being messy (messier than Jen might ordinarily want in that part of the house) & she let Will start painting. Then she decided it was gonna be a present for Bill (aka "Baba" at that point). Then a few minutes later, Jen decided the artwork was good enough & it was time to clean up. At some point when Jen was cleaning up the art stuff, & trying to get Will to help her, he got upset because she'd taken the paint set & he wanted to keep painting, & somehow he ended up hitting her (mileage may possibly vary as to whether it was accidentally or on purpose). Then Jen tried to explain kids didn't do that to their mothers & she put him in a time out over it. I think they use the "1 minute of time out for every year old the kid involved is" system for determining the length of a time out (isn't that what Jo Frost uses too?).

I think TLC ran that ep sort of recently, during the day. During the day, they've been running a lot of the old eps, starting with--I think--the last minute stuff to go to China to get Will, followed by preparing to go to India to get Zoey (including the part where Jen gets sick; sicker than anyone actually thinks she is, including herself, & has to go home before they can get Zoey's entrance visa, & all the requirements for it finished), & then on from there. But I don't think they've been showing all the eps before or after the actual adoption trips overseas; I think they've skipped some.

Anyway, the only other ep where I'm positive Will got a time out from Jen was also on TLC earlier this week. It was 1 where I can't remember who started out talking, or why they were, but at some point Will said somebody or something was stupid. I've always thought he said it quietly enough Jen couldn't have heard it, but she did. And then she put Will in a time out over why using the word in the way he did (in a negative, harmful sense) was wrong; I think she also told Will & Zoey she didn't want them to use that word (because it can hurt people's feelings).

[pdlinda1]

10 hours ago, Mya said:

My husband and I also noticed how uncomfortable Jen appears to be.  I wonder if she finds parenting extremely stressful and difficult I know allot of other mothers who feel this way including myself.  She seems much more relaxed and confident in the scenes at work IMO.

I think Jen's stature and the fact that the kids might soon exceed her in height is a factor in her "discomfort" with parenting.  It may be a bit intimidating to her physically to imagine a physical encounter with Will where she could potentially be harmed.  When I think of 3 ft 2 inches, it is quite miniscule.  Maybe contemplating the future with the kids growing beyond their adorable toddler/youngster phase causes her concern.  I believe Bill has an entirely different temperament and is considerably taller than she is.

[ThinkerBell]

On 02/11/2017 at 10:12 AM, Chalby said:

The Johnstons are my hands-down favourites. Love that family.

The Johnston kids sure do listen to their parents. It warms my heart when they say, "Yes, sir" or "Yes, ma'am". 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

21 minutes ago, ThinkerBell said:

The Johnston kids sure do listen to their parents. It warms my heart when they say, "Yes, sir" or "Yes, ma'am". 

They sure do!  Saying Yes Sir/Yes Ma’am is a southern thing!  I love it with their southern accents too.

[SMama]

@AZChristian how wonderful of you to take the time to compliment well behaved children. Your thoughtful act reminded me of two things.  One afternoon I was shopping after work and had unusually forgotten to remove my work ID (I hated that thing and held the record for "losing" my badge). There was a young father mortified by the tantrum his son was expertly executing in the middle of the aisle with quite the audience. He was getting a lot of side eye because he told the child no, child throws his body on the floor, limbs flailing, screaming and crying. I heard what led to the tantrum, the father was establishing boundaries. You just don't pick up an item that is not on the list (toy). As he was walking away others were murmuring their disapproval, but I realized he still had his eye on the kid. The kid got up to follow his father and continued to cry, but more like a whimper. The father was truly mortified and almost in tears. I stood in line behind him and whispered "good job standing your ground." He looked at me in disbelief. I held up my much hated CPS ID and said "You did nothing wrong, you established boundaries, and followed through with consequences. It's tough to do, but it will pay off. Look, he already gave up the gig." He teared up and told me he was terrified someone would call the cops or CPS on him.  It is important to give kudos to good parenting and behavior, we all need a pick me up now and then.

Once thing I have always done with kids in my caseloads, and with my own children, is catching them being good. It's worked wonderfully with my daughter. Proper behavior is expected, but there is nothing wrong with acknowledging good behavior. We have had water park (now water and amusement park) seasons passes since our daughter came home. Even at 18 months, in the kiddie play area of the pool, some kids would be so wild it would scare her. Other times it looked like she was wondering if she should emulate their behavior, if that was the way to play. For example, climbing on top of the tube slides, definitely a no no. Once we left the area we would praise her for making the right choice, for following the rules. Did she really understand? Probably not, but kids understand tone, body language, and praise. Even now at ten when we see feral behavior we tell her we are proud we can take her anywhere and not have to worry about her manners.

Regarding giving time outs, sometimes it is not effective with some kids, especially adopted children with trauma. I struck an online friendship with an out of state mother, who adopted from China about two years before we met (not got) our daughter. It was so exciting watching her journey on her blog, and then see them meet. Her daughter suffered (still does but more contained) from RAD. Thankfully she is a special ed teacher, and I really believe it's why her daughter is doing well in mainstream classes.  I learned about time ins from that mom. Even with her vast experience it was new to her. What the heck is a time in? Kids that have abandonment/attachment issues do not respond well to being in time out with no parent contact. It varies with each child, and it is a hit and miss to find what works. In her case she would sit with her daughter, hold her, but no talk, and if the child got up, then the timing would start again. After the time in, there was an explanation as to why it happened.  An excellent RAD child therapist worked with them until the mother was able to handle it on her own. Once there was trust established time ins were phased out, and time outs became the norm. Time ins were vital in establishing trust with our daughter, but there were few and far in between because she is naturally good-natured. We have seen Jen giving a time out so obviously it is not a problem with Will and Zoey. I'm doing a horrible job attempting to articulate that there may be some issues regarding how, when, and why discipline is applied. OTOH if I was in that situation I would not have a camera crew following our family around, it's a recipe for disaster.

Sorry for the long post.

[calpurnia99]

I think long drawn out temper tantrums, and bad behavior by the parents is not shown at the request of Bill and Jen. I am sure there have been many melt downs while the camera crew was there that we don't see. Bill or Jen may have certainly lost their tempers, as all parents do. They just edit what we see.

[Kohola3]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

Sorry for the long post.

I always find your posts so informative!  So many things we don't think about in this country.  And it makes a lot of sense that time outs might not send the desired message to children from third world countries who has spent their lives confined to a crib with no interaction.  It would be like one endless time out from dawn to dusk.  

[SMama]

Thank you. ?

[Libby]

The Johnstons adopted 2 children at 4 years old from foreign countries. Anna from Russia, and Emma from China. They demonstrate that it is possible to raise these children to act age appropriate and behave. Smama on this board also displays this.

I think that Jen could have done a better job if she wasn't on TV and wasn't saddled with Bill. Unfortunately, she continues to go along with both, so she is no better. She is putting Bill and the show ahead of what is best for her kids.

[SMama]

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

 And it makes a lot of sense that time outs might not send the desired message to children from third world countries who has spent their lives confined to a crib with no interaction.  It would be like one endless time out from dawn to dusk.  

There is a plethora of physical and behavioral evidence that this was our daughter's normal. That bolded sentence made me cry, because you perfectly articulated her first sixteen months of life.

[Snow8585]

Will was given time outs in China according to Jen, and when he was ready to behave folded his hands. We saw him do this in an earlier season. He seemed like a good kid and fairly well behaved back then. I wonder what happened. Now he has a smart mouth, runs amok and does not listen to his parents, yells and screams and shrieks. Oh yeah, and tells his mother he does not like her.

[Emmeline]

Adam Sandler’s daughters age 5 & 8.

Does the eight year old look silly, yes.  Does she seem to care, no.  I’m just saying.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Emmeline
Added

[SMama]

You are right, I remember the hand gesture. The beautiful girl I referred to in a previous post was the most angelic thing ever. Not a problem in China, and none during the honeymoon period at home. I fell in love with her through the pictures and videos. But when it unleashed it was brutal enough to scare a seasoned SED teacher. I watched those videos as well (not posted on blog, we were talking regularly then) and it was heartbreaking. Not making excuses for Bill and Jen, I just don’t know what demons (if any) the kids might be battling. Or it could be a severe case of brattitis. As much as I’d love to squeeze Will’s cheeks and rolls, the shrieking is too much for me.

Amber and Trent were experienced parents before adopting. They also seem to have a cohesive parenting style. If my husband was the clown and fun parent, we would no longer be together. JK. But co-parenting would be an insurmountable task.

Edited November 5, 2017 by SMama

[Sasha888]

I whole-heartedly agree with complimenting families who have well behaved in restaurants, etc. I was out for dinner with my Dad once...just the two of us. I knew he and my Mom hated having their dinner ruined by unruly kids. Two female friends out having dinner together, with their combined 5 kids in tow, were seated at a table across the aisle from us. Dad gave me a side-eye look that I knew meant "Oh shit...here we go." To our surprise, the two friends carried on a conversation, enjoying their dinner and visit, and not a whiff of bad behavior. When we got up to leave, I noticed my Dad wasn't right behind me anymore...I turned back and he was talking to them. When he caught up with me, I asked what he'd said, and he told me he'd complimented the ladies on their very well behaved children. The ladies were beaming. My Dad was naturally shy, for the most part, and I knew it wasn't easy for him to go strike up a conversation with strangers. I was so impressed with my Dad! Now I also do that whenever I'm seated near children who behave well in a restaurant.

Of course I've seen that bad side, too. Once my mother and I were on a vacation and went to a nice restaurant. After we'd been seated, a family encouraging their children's loud, obnoxious behavior was seated near us. (We might have asked to not be seated by them, but in the case, we were there first, unfortunately.) After putting up with all we could stand, we asked our server to relocate us. He had a very exasperated look on his face that told us he knew EXACTLY why we were asking (and later apologized specifically about the unruly kids). As some servers were helping us move all of our plates and drinks to another table, we got a bunch of dirty looks from that family. We just looked them right in the eye while we moved. We were paying quite a bit for a nice dinner at a nice restaurant, and we didn't want it ruined. Don't want the embarrassment of people asking to move because of you? Then CONTROL your kids. 

Sorry but if I was seated near Bill & Jen, I'd be asking to move. I'm on a limited income and dinner out is a treat for me. I'm not going to have it ruined because of someone else's screeching, climbing, obnoxious kids. 

[SunnyBeBe]

On 11/3/2017 at 0:38 PM, Quof said:

 He was 3. Each of the kids has been a Klein for more than half of their lifetime.

Yeah, and Will was much better behaved regarding controlling his own behavior when he first came to live with Bill and Jen,  than he is now,, imo.  I suppose that means that he is comfortable, but, it also means that he's not growing in that way and that's not good. 

[sATL]

On 10/31/2017 at 4:19 PM, Libby said:

I think that it was last year's Halloween. The show is behind because of the legal trouble.

Zoey's birthday episode was her 5th birthday. She turned 6 this month. These episodes are a year behind.

legal trouble ? Details please.

[AZChristian]

3 minutes ago, sATL said:

legal trouble ? Details please.

This thread contains some information.

[sATL]

15 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

This thread contains some information.

Thanks. I didn't know the back story. When the words "legal trouble" was mentioned - my mind went racing (ie the duggars)

[sATL]

On 11/3/2017 at 11:24 AM, BitterApple said:

I think Bill and Jen are awesome people, but I don't believe parenting comes naturally for either one of them. I believe they love their kids to death and would spend every dime they have to ensure Will and Zoe get the help they need, but neither is very skilled in executing the day to day tasks involved in childcare. They've always been upfront about having a nanny, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that, but I think the hired help does way more of the heavy lifting than we're led to believe. 

Thanks for saying what I have been thinking. Bill and Jen love family and are grateful for the adoptions going though, but now that they have to put in the work to become a full on 100-of-the time parent, it does seem like it is a struggle.  I noticed it when I see the previews on all of the trips - there is always at least one of the grands there. If they have to go to the specialist in NYC every year, then you shouldn't need the family entourage coming - visit them before/afterwards.  I wonder if  they spent time before the kids, talking about their parenting style and just how different was their own childhood homes/ backgrounds from each other. Meaning did they both have such strict parents, that they vowed to be more of a carefree-parent?

I also wonder since Jen is a pediatric specialist if she spent a little to much time studying parenthood, theories and researching, as opposed to being hands on. I wonder how much babysitting, care taking, volunteering with kids, spending time with family/friends who have kids, did they do before getting in the "hot seat". Time will tell with these two.

[ThinkerBell]

I've been fighting a stubborn respiratory infection for the last few days and have had little energy to do anything except binge watch The Little Couple during the day , and Forensic Files at night. I awoke last night from a feverish dream where adorable Will Klein was excitedly running through a crime scene, screeching joyously at the top of his lungs, and destroying evidence with every exuberant step. Note to self : Turn the TV off and take less cold medicine.

[sATL]

On 11/2/2017 at 3:46 PM, Bridget said:

On 11/2/2017 at 3:31 PM, calpurnia99 said:

I know it's blasphemy to say I wish Zoey had longer hair. 

I'll say what some might be thinking: she looks like a boy in certain shots/angles. She was perfect with her normal little girl haircut. Pixie cuts are very chic on women, not so much on little girls. (I LOVED Emma Watson's hair when she cut it off several years ago - stunning!) 

 

Just realized I didn't vote on "hair-gate 2016-2017". I vote for longer hair on Zoey.

Mainly b/c she will  look more like a little girl her age. I'm not saying she has to wear it as long as the Duggar girls, but I guess most of the little girls I've seen wear there hair just a touch longer - maybe to later put in a ballet bun, pony-tails, braids, hair bows/bands, etc - ie utilize all of the girly hair things that are in the hair aisle in Walmart and beauty supply stores, while one is at the age where it looks good to wear them. And usually when you are young, the hair is so healthy, it is quite beautiful when groomed and well conditioned.  I wonder did Jan look at the other older girls at the orphanage where Zoey was, models of girls Zoey's age, and/or the other little girls in her class before getting it cut? I'm surpised the stylist didn't offer up a suggestion.

[sATL]

On 11/3/2017 at 6:18 AM, floridamom said:

Another observation here:  I think Jen is speaking way too many words to her children. I remember being advised when my children were little that using LESS WORDS with MORE MEANING was the way to go. Otherwise my children would simply tune me out. Jen speaks volumes to the kids; trying desperately to be 'polite', 'non intrusive with them', giving them choices etc...nonsense. Speak clearly and simply to them and FOLLOW THROUGH.

good example of being a book-theory parent . Jen probably read somewhere that her speeches is helps  a child to build their vocabulary, listening skills and learning. Grown-ups, tweens and teens also tune out when too many words are used. "huh?", "what did you say", "yes, baby I heard you...", "yeah, I'm listening to you..", "what?"... the list goes on in most households..

It might be a little mean - but why does anything a parent say needs to be a speech dissertation. "because I said so", sometimes is the best and only answer. I learned to live with that response. And years later, probably had to use it a couple of times myself.

[Quof]

Quote

but why does anything a parent say needs to be a speech dissertation

This. Not to mention the asking rather than telling, the negotiating rather than commanding.  Someone needs to step up and be in charge, and it shouldn't be the children.