S07.E03: The Garden of Forking Paths

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Cinderella finds herself in danger and receives help from an unlikely source. Meanwhile, Jacinda goes to extreme measures to stop Victoria from destroying Lucy's community garden; and Lucy tries to open Henry's eyes regarding Victoria.

 

[Rumsy4]

That was bad.

Already with the one-handed jokes? Regina is total pos, cursed or not.

I can't with Murderella. She thinks it's okay to murder an old man becasue she has the hots for a younger one? Great. And St. Regina talks her down. And give me a break about it taking a long time for Regina to figure out murder is wrong. 

Not enough WHook for me. Not interested in him ineffectually trying to flirt with Tiana in the background. And of course Weaver overrules Officer Rogers in Seattle. The good guys never win in ONCE.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

Wow. Usually there'd be five replies by now. I guess this show really is dead.

* "Where were you when my father was killed?" Tiana just saved your life and you're complaining that her resistance couldn't save your father? 
* "I'm a regular queen" Yes, we get it, show. Roni = The Evil Queen. 
* Murderella strikes again! She attempts to take the life of another! Really living up to the namesake.
* I don't mind Regina giving advice. She has learned a lot and experienced quite a bit. I just wish the dialogue was better.
* They got all those people to show up for a community garden no one even cared about? Sooo realistic.
* Oh. Anastasia is just Daniel. That's just swell.
* Henry's fake daughter is named after the woman Charming was forced to commit adultery with under a curse. 

All the characters are just caricatures at this point. We're supposed to feel bad for Henry's grieving process, but he doesn't seem all that traumatized. We never got any hint of what life was like for his family before the fire. We're supposed to see Jacinda as Cinderella, but we haven't seen her do Cinderella-ish things. We haven't seen her clean Tremaine's house or get bullied by her stepsisters.
 

[CCTC]

I might have just gone from catching the show if I am home - to not.

I actually thought the ?witch? at the end and some of the Anastasia stuff was genuinely creepy, but it was not enough.

Rodgers and Wish Hook now seem just like regular Hook.   I am not sure Colin is going to get the acting stretch he wanted.  None of the characters are really written that differently than their real counterpoints.

Jacenda's speech in the garden gave me PSTD flashbacks to Henry's NYC fountain speech.  

Is Roni'/Regina going to give some pep talk in every episode?  She is now too good to be true.

Even if Victoria had full custody, unless Jacenda was a mass murderer, she would at least have supervised visitation.  There is no way she would not even be able to pass a letter on to her.  Then they were hanging out afterwards pretty easily.  They seem to be pretty inconsistent with what the actual custody arrangement is.

They should really explain better what Tremaine's title or position is and why she has so much power.  Is she from a rival branch of the royal family etc.  She also might as well be a witch at this point for how well she uses magic.

There were some real weak acting moments that really did not help the situation.  Some reaction shots that were supposed to not be noticed by other characters that looked like they could have been from a silent movie.

I am for community gardens, but that lot does not really seem like it would gather that much support to save it.

I also don't see a writing emmy next year.

Edited October 21, 2017 by CCTC

[ParadoxLost]

I don't have a lot to say. 

Accidentally witnessing the first 30 seconds of MacGyver reminded me the show was on.

Then I spent a lot of time channel flipping.  I'd watch OAUT.  I'd get irritated.  Flip the channel.  Flip through hundreds of channels looking for something that was watchable (why don't they counter program this better?)   Then I'd go back to OUAT and get disgusted with the acting and then rinse repeat.

The actresses playing Tiana, Cinderella, and Tremaine really can not carry off the dialogue.  Its not organic in any way.  Some of them are spouting lines and not connecting in any way.  Others are trying too hard to be the next coming of the EQ.  Some of them are Cinderella.

Edited October 21, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[CCTC]

One more nitpick.  A construction crew accidentally creates a big hole in the ground in broad daylight that reveals a large tunnel -- that was pretty well lit, and no one from the crew blocks off the passage and/or there is no one else inspecting or exploring this new big discovery?

[Rumsy4]

15 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Wow. Usually there'd be five replies by now. I guess this show really is dead.

And I've never been able to get the the first comment in before, as far as I can remember. lol 

Quote

We're supposed to see Jacinda as Cinderella, but we haven't seen her do Cinderella-ish things. We haven't seen her clean Tremaine's house or get bullied by her stepsisters.

EXACTLY!! Show, don't tell is the basic rule of writing!

15 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

And what is up with A&E giving their female protagonists guilt trips.

OMG. I agree, and I'm sick of it!

Is that the "witch". Please let her not be WHook's daughter! (she probably is).

[pezgirl7]

So was that Rupunzel with the gross, messy hair that Lady T has chained up? I'm guessing her hair is magical like it was in Tangled, and she can bring Anastasia back to life. I'm also guessing she's Whook's daughter. They're all I really care about at this point.

Whook's eyebrows sure were getting a workout in the flashbacks! Are they actually going to ship him and Tiana? I never saw her movie, but I thought she had her own prince?

I really can't find anything to like about Cinderella. She's just so blah, and a little bit of a not-so-great person at times. I'm still having a hard time understanding the actress's dialogue too. I wish she would enunciate better. Anyway, the show has done a really bad job at showing us exactly what her and Henry see in each other to make them fall in love.

[ParadoxLost]

3 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

So was that Rupunzel with the gross, messy hair that Lady T has chained up? I'm guessing her hair is magical like it was in Tangled, and she can bring Anastasia back to life. I'm also guessing she's Whook's daughter. They're all I really care about at this point.

I thought maybe the witch that imprisoned Whook's daughter.

And I think Anastasia didn't die at 14.  She was taken by the witch.  And she is Tremaine and WHook's daughter.  Based on the grand total of 5 minutes that I saw which included Regina/Cindrella talk about Anastasia and Tremaine wheeling in the box/coffin to where the woman was chained up.

Edited October 21, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Writing Wrongs]

13 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

I'm still having a hard time understanding the actress's dialogue too. I wish she would enunciate better.

Yes. I hate to say it, but her accent annoys me. They really shouldn't have made Henry and Cinderella the focus of he show. They are so boring.

Hook & Tiana, huh? Ok.

I really miss The Charmings.

[Shanna Marie]

I was being snarky when I predicted that Cinderella would be indirectly responsible for Anastasia's death, a la Snow and Daniel. I didn't really expect them to go there.

Most of the new cast has the acting style that makes them sound like they have to think hard to remember their lines.

I wonder when Lady Tremaine learned that Henry had the Heart of the Truest Believer. Last episode, she wanted to kill him, no mention of trying to take his heart.

I'm officially done with Murderella after she was about to kill that sweet old man. Then there's Lady Tremaine plotting to destroy Lucy to get what she wants. Her tactics with Lucy were right out of Regina's playbook, setting up Jacinda to hurt Lucy.

The world has turned upside down when Regina is, by default, my second favorite character (second to Hook's prehensile eyebrow). Though the witch at the end has some promise. Her, I like.

[Writing Wrongs]

Maybe the witch is Zelena's daughter, Robin.

Lucy looks like a kid version of Cisco from The Flash.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Writing Wrongs

[mtlchick]

The more I attempt to watch, the more I hate myself a little bit more.  And yet I want to know what the end game is for this requel for some ridiculous reason. 

[Terrafamilia]

The logistics police need to investigate. How did the palace guard and Tiana turn up so soon behind C-Rella on the faster than a horse motorcycle? And I suppose we will still never find out what happened off in Wonderland between Will Scarlet and the other Anastasia that caused Will to show back up in Storybrooke. Yes, I'm still bitter.

[CCTC]

6 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

The more I attempt to watch, the more I hate myself a little bit more. 

Regina would tell you that you need to forgive yourself.

[Lady Calypso]

I ended spending half the episode watching MacGyver, a show I've never seen before. That's how uninterested I am in this show.

Ok, unpopular opinion: I thought the end scene with Henry finding his fake family's graves was kind of well done. I thought that was the first time I felt for Adult Henry; Andrew J West kind of did a good job at selling his anguish for me. But yeah, I still don't care because the family doesn't even exist. 

I also don't care about dead daughter Anastacia. I assume Tremaine's evil plan to bring her back will work, but....girl, have you heard of the Wish Realm? Just go to another realm or blackmail the witch into going back in time or something!

Oh wait; this is the show that had Rumple waste centuries with creating the dark curse to find his son because there was no other way to jump realms...only to have magic beans grow left and right about two seconds after finding Baelfire. 

I was just thinking about Henry's magical journey in the mines in season 1 when Lucy mentioned it. So...good continuity, I suppose. She's still grating on my nerves. She might be more annoying than Henry was, and Henry was in the show about 50% more than Lucy is! 

The flashback scenes bore me. Can we just skip to the point where Tremaine creates the curse? Because I want to know if it took years and years for Tremaine to do it so Lucy could be born and Henry could actually raise her, or whether the curse was cast when Murderella was pregnant or just given birth, and *insert magic here to keep everyone, Henry included, young while Lucy grew up*. Although....do I REALLY care about that backstory, either? No.

I'm not really a Hook fan at all. I'm even less of a Whook fan, because I give zero shits about him and his sob backstory about his missing daughter. I like Roni, but I missed most of her scenes while flipping channels. Tiana is pretty alright. I like her better than Murderella. I seriously can't stand the actress, either. 

[Rumsy4]

37 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

The more I attempt to watch, the more I hate myself a little bit more.  

Oh god. Same.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I wonder when Lady Tremaine learned that Henry had the Heart of the Truest Believer. Last episode, she wanted to kill him, no mention of trying to take his heart.

How did she learn more about Henry, anyway? He's from another realm in the infinite multiverse. What resources could she have possibly had?

[Worsel]

Okay.  I really want to enjoy this show.  But it is difficult.  Atrocious dialogue (especially in the early scene with Tiana, Cinderella and the motorcycle - had to fit in that exposition quickly, didn't they?  As others have said "show, don't tell.")  I really dislike the character Cinderella/Jacinda (nothing against the actress who is trying her best I'm sure.) I've never really felt this way about an OUAT character before.  There just don't seem to be any redeeming qualities that make me want to support her.  Unfortunately she still has terrible chemistry with Henry.  By the way I think the actor portraying Henry is doing a good job, its just that the writing and dialogue are so bad its challenging.  The end scene in the cemetery was well acted.  The other characters/actors are doing their best, but until the writing makes me care about them I am going to continue to lose interest in where the show is going.  

It just makes me sad, I used to look forward to each episode, and now I approach the show with some trepidation.  Where is the emotion and heart, and the suspenseful stories that make me care about the characters?  

[OnceUponAJen]

 I'm going to admit it, guys.....I didn't watch.  But it's waiting for me if I decide to.  Sigh.

[thuganomics85]

I was wondering why in the hell they were bothering the old guy at first since there didn't seem to be any point to it.  But I certainly didn't predict it was going to be because Cinderella; who is suppose to be one of our "heroes' in this damn thing; was actually going to steal his heart and sacrifice it/him to Tremaine, in order to protect Henry.  Again, I'm suppose to like this character?  Man, I'm actually starting to miss the days when the show was flawed in the opposite way, like having Snow's guilt over killing Cora be way over-the-top considering the circumstances.  Because at least that made sense to the character on some levels.  But stuff like this (and, I swear, I usually hate to criticize actors too much, but Dania Ramirez is just not working here), really is making me despise the character.  Maybe it would be better for "Jacinda" to not get her memories back, if Lucy knew what was good for her and the rest of the town.

Of course, I have a feeling that the show wants me to feel for Tremaine too, since it has been revealed that she is doing all of this to try and bring back Anastasia from the dead (and she blames Cinderella, somehow?)  This show sure does love making excuses for their villains, I see.  And who in the hell is this person that Tremaine has locked up?

Hook wastes his time trying to bring down some guy who looks like a low rent version of Harvey from Suits, only for Rumple to spring him out, and make him his own agent.  I can't even muster any interest in this, sadly.  Honestly, neither Colin O'Donoghue or Robert Carlyle's hearts seem into it either, and both of them are usually pretty reliable.

Tiana apparently is a resistant leader and is likely being set up as a love interest for Hook.  Yay?

Lucy makes strides to convincing Henry that seemed to almost work, only for him to find his "family's" gravestones in the Hyperion Heights cemetery instead. Part of the curse, I'm guessing.

I guess I am kind of warming up to Ronnie since Lana Parrilla is the only one who seems to be enjoying herself.  Granted, thanks to both Jennifer Morrison and Ginnfer Goodwin being gone, she's at long last become the first billed star, so I'm sure that is a reason to be a happy! 

I'm trying, but this is just bad, in my opinion.  Sure, this show has always been shaky (especially the latter seasons), but even then there was some kind of charm to it (and its cast), that made me forgive its silliness and dumb moments.  But I'm finding it hard to think of anything redeemable here.

[Rumsy4]

I think I finally figured out why Murderella is apparently so fascinating to Henry. She is his project--just like Regina was his project. He wants to be the guy who saves women with murderous tendencies by his love. He was Regina's acting parent (along with Mary Margaret). Henry is the kind of guy who would fall in love with a woman just like his mother.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Rumsy4

[OnceUponAJen]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

I think I finally figured out why Murderella is apparently so fascinating to Henry. She is his project--just like Regina was his project. He wants to be the guy who saves women with murderous tendencies by his love. 

White knight complex?  A recipe for heartache, Henry!

[ParadoxLost]

33 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Tiana apparently is a resistant leader and is likely being set up as a love interest for Hook.  Yay?

Last week I was pretty convinced that Rogers and Roni were being set up as love interests. 

34 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I'm trying, but this is just bad, in my opinion.  Sure, this show has always been shaky (especially the latter seasons), but even then there was some kind of charm to it (and its cast), that made me forgive its silliness and dumb moments.  But I'm finding it hard to think of anything redeemable here.

A&E were right.  This show used to be all about hope.  That is what is missing.  I used to be able to watch the worst episode because I had hope that there would be a good scene with characters I couldn't shake being invested in.

That is the biggest problem now.  That hope is gone.  There is nothing grabbing me about the requel that makes me want to sit through the bad parts in hopes of getting a nugget of goodness.

I like Roni, Rumple, and WHook well enough but they managed to reboot so much that I don't really care about what they are up to because they pretty much dismantled all of their relationships (I'm just not connecting with Henry and WHook breaks all the other interpersonal dynamics).  So it basically comes down to my only motivation to watch is 'hey they are doing better making this dialogue not reek so bad as the others' which isn't enough.

[KingOfHearts]

52 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I think I finally figured out why Murderella is apparently so fascinating to Henry. She is his project--just like Regina was his project. He wants to be the guy who saves women with murderous tendencies by his love. He was Regina's acting parent (along with Mary Margaret). Henry is the kind of guy who would fall in love with a woman just like his mother.

These were my thoughts too. Oedipus complex much?

The character motivations are either all over the place or non-existent. Everyone is teaming up because the plot needs them to, because they all have strong common goals. Tremaine/Victoria is just a terrible person who does bad things and we must stop her because... she's a terrible person who does bad things. In the flashbacks, the characters are stupid to join the resistance against her. Henry and Murderella were united. There were no children involved. They could have taken the first magic bean out of that place and lived happily ever after. They're only staying because Tremaine was involved in the death of Murderella's father. Is helping a coldblooded killer on a revenge quest really being "supportive"? Then in the present day, it seems Rogers, Roni, and Henry are only working together because they all just dislike Victoria. Maybe Henry is fighting for Lucy's wellbeing, but nothing's been built up to push Roni and Rogers to the cause. They haven't been directly impacted. They all only trust each other to fit the demands of the plot. What exactly are they planning to do, anyway?

What the heck is going on with Regina? Yeah, she's hogging plenty of screentime, but her character has no arc. Her only role is to give advice now. Who knew she'd end up like Snow. I wish the writers would have given her something to work with, even if it was just a crappy new love interest.

Edited October 21, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Some moments in this episode were just so incredibly cheesy I felt embarrassed to watch, like the "rousing" speech at the community garden (like CCTC, all I could think of was that cringy fountain speech).   The writing for the speech was really something.  She says, "Sign this.  And when you're done, START PLANTING".  Seriously, are they all her slaves?  Why are they suddenly caring about the garden now?  How did she contact random people she met in the street?  Is the giant hole in the ground not a concern?  

I know the final scene was supposed to be very atmospheric and creepy but that lady at the end seriously looked like she was wearing a mop on her head.  That stuff Lady Tremaine said to her was pretty much the definition of convoluted mumbo jumbo.  I could hardly concentrate even though it's supposed to be sooooo important.  You'd think the reveal that Victoria remembers everything would pack a bit more punch, instead of this nonsensical over-complicated deal with Mophead.  "She must give up her belief willingly"... isn't this exactly what The Black Fairy tried to do three episodes ago?   If her goal is to destroy Lucy's belief, Victoria's approach is pretty pathetic.  Why did Victoria suddenly dig up the coffin now?  

It was totally not suspicious that a upper class businesswoman would say "I'll take it from here" with the crate at a service elevator.

The final cemetery scene didn't affect me either because it was pretty much out-of-nowhere.  So the cemetery was there, but Henry just got the wrong address?  Huh?  He did a good job of crying, but I was more distracted by trying to read what names they chose for his fake wife/kid.  Is Lauren supposed to be significant?  I fully expected that the crate would contain the real tombstones that were in the cemetery and Lady Tremaine had just planted them there.

Back to the beginning of the episode.  So Cinderella took the motorcycle to get back to portal spot.  Didn't she and Henry run out of the palace together?  Why would she be calling his name?  If he didn't have the motorcycle, clearly, he wouldn't get there yet.  

Tiana and the "Resistance" gave me bad memories of the TV show "Revolution".  And oh look, her modern counterpart is late for work just like Jacinda is.

"Show don't tell" was mentioned several times already, and this was especially bad this episode.  We hear Jacinda telling the roommate that Lucy has been writing her letters and they meet at the garden so Victoria wouldn't know.  Shouldn't we be seeing this?  We still have no idea what Lucy is like at Victoria's and how they treat each other.  The dialogue is just horrible.  "I miss her so much, my heart hurts" was probably the worst line in the entire episode.  

They also said in dialogue the entire backstory with Tremaine killing the father/Anastasia dying/etc., when the viewer should have seen it first-hand.  Ditto for Tiana giving Cinders the Cole's notes of how Tremaine was the one who murdered her father and how the Resistance formed to "overthrow your stepmother and the royal family" with zero explanation of what Tremaine's connection to the royal family even is.  

The Writers have a very special skill of making me dislike Murderella more and more through the course of the episode.  Considering killing an innocent old man?  Really?  Lying to Henry, not confiding anything in him, etc.  That just adds to the complete lack of chemistry.  I hate how they're repeating the victim blaming themselves including highlights from Snow/Regina with the victim asking the perpetrator to kill them, asking the perpetrator if they must go through any more suffering, etc.  And seriously, how dumb was Jacinda to take Victoria's offer to give her a new condo that isn't even built yet.  If they had to have Jacinda burn the petition, it should only have been about Lucy.  Maybe signing a legal document stating she would never claim custody of Lucy again.

It was predictable that Whook would fail, so that wasn't too enjoyable to watch.  

I can't believe I'm saying this, but the only scenes where Cinders's acting was actually ok were the ones she had with Regina in the flashback.  The Evil Queen - helping wayward Princesses since "A long time ago".

And Victoria... if you don't want Champion of The People Petition Getter soliciting signatures in streets and resurrecting everyone's inner Green Giant, maybe pay the Mr. Cluck's boss a few bucks and have him give Jacinda a shift at work or something?

Edited October 21, 2017 by Camera One

[Souris]

I decided to take a peek at the Once FB page, and whoo-boy whoever it was who alerted us that the GA hates Murderella (was it @Camera One?) sure was right! The comments are brutal.

A selection:

 

[Camera One]

4 minutes ago, Souris said:

I decided to take a peek at the Once FB page, and whoo-boy whoever it was who alerted us that the GA hates Murderella (was it @Camera One?) sure was right! The comments are brutal.

It was KAOSAgent, I think.  

Wow, those comments are really negative.  I wouldn't be surprised if they do a U-Turn for 7B.

[Camera One]

Quote

Ramirez teases of the princess team-up. “Cinderella ends up obviously meeting Tiana and really fighting for the people. And that’s the thing that’s actually the biggest similarity of Jacinda and Cinderella in both worlds, is that she’s really taking this role of a role model and really the people’s person. She’s really the voice of the underdog.”

The voice of the underdog?  No one even knows her in the flashbacks, so she's not a role model there.  

That was a quote from EW interview (beware, there are some spoilers for next week maybe?  It was a promo interview for this week but some events didn't happen, so it must be for next week)

Edited October 21, 2017 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

Quote

It was KAOSAgent, I think.  

Wow, those comments are really negative.  I wouldn't be surprised if they do a U-Turn for 7B.

Yep. I've found the Facebook page to be a better gauge of the general audience now that the ship warriors/character stans have nothing to fight about. Even worse than the negative comments on Facebook are the huge number of likes some of the more brutal comments get.

This was the first episode where Cinderella and the newbies were expected to carry the show and it was not pretty. The ratings and the half hour splits are going to be very interesting. In S1, this was "Snow Falls" which is one of many people's favorite episodes. Can anyone imagine if this was what aired as the third episode in S1?

[Writing Wrongs]

There are no backstory flashbacks that amount to anything. I know they want to change the formula, but by now we should've had a true Cinderella flashback and a Lady Tremaine one, to show hat the deal is between them. The scene from the last episode of Season 6 between Henry and Lucy promised something kind of exciting, but this so far is boring as hell.

Seattle is too big a city and we still don't know who was affected by the curse. Just a neighborhood or a street? In Storybrooke we knew everyone was.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Writing Wrongs

[Shanna Marie]

8 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I think I finally figured out why Murderella is apparently so fascinating to Henry. She is his project--just like Regina was his project. He wants to be the guy who saves women with murderous tendencies by his love. He was Regina's acting parent (along with Mary Margaret). Henry is the kind of guy who would fall in love with a woman just like his mother.

That did seem to be what was going on in the first episode -- he was going to save her from herself because revenge is bad. Now she's a triple threat -- she's in danger, she has those revenge tendencies, and she looks a lot like Mom. Unfortunately, she also looks about the same age as his mother when the lighting isn't just right.

I wonder if the bit where she scoffs at the introduction of Regina as his Mom and snarks about Hook being his father was meant to indicate something about the timeline. If the 8 or so years had passed normally, there wouldn't have been any reason for snark because Regina would have been the right age to be his mother. The Regina who saw teen Henry off was an appropriate age, and then if time passed normally between worlds, she'd be the right age now. While Regina didn't age during the curse, at the time she adopted him, she was of an age where you could have subtracted ten years and she would have still been a reasonable age to be having a child. Hook looks like he would have had to be a teen parent to have had a 17-18-year-old, and there was reason to snark about him being Henry's father in the present. So, were they trying to suggest that something wonky happened with time? Or were those weird highlighted streaks in flashback Regina's hair meant to be gray?

[Worsel]

6 hours ago, Souris said:

I decided to take a peek at the Once FB page, and whoo-boy whoever it was who alerted us that the GA hates Murderella (was it @Camera One?) sure was right! The comments are brutal.

 

I tend to blame the writing more than the acting.  There are of course some actors who can read a phone book and make it a phenomenal performance, but they are rare.  Also, I don't like criticizing children, they don't have the maturity to deal with those brutal comments.  So I feel a bit sorry for the actress playing Lucy.

[Eolivet]

I'm so distracted by every single flashback, because I keep wondering: when are Henry and Cinderella going to do it? I know, that's awful, but unlike Henry, where his dad was out of the picture, the fact that Lucy is Henry and Cinderella's daughter is pivotal to the plot. And we keep seeing How I Met Your ... I can't even finish that sentence (::turns around three times and spits at Bays and Thomas:: ). This is also unlike Snow/Charming and Emma, where we saw pregnant Snow right away.

(And did he marry Cinderella? He's missing his "wife and daughter," so I assume, but it's never said. I don't think Lucy said "my mom is your wife," just "you're my dad" and "my mom is your true love." So like ... what exactly happened?)

This what the show has reduced me to: waiting for Chekov's Bang.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

11 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

So was that Rupunzel with the gross, messy hair that Lady T has chained up? I'm guessing her hair is magical like it was in Tangled, and she can bring Anastasia back to life. I'm also guessing she's Whook's daughter. They're all I really care about at this point.

Whook's eyebrows sure were getting a workout in the flashbacks! Are they actually going to ship him and Tiana? I never saw her movie, but I thought she had her own prince?

I think it was the witch from the Rapunzel story.

In the movie Tiana married Prince Naveen. I didn't get much of a flirty vibe or chemistry from their interactions, at least not on Tiana's part and no more than usual on Hook's, but they could all of a sudden hook up (no pun intended) and it wouldn't be inconsistent for this show.

11 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

And I think Anastasia didn't die at 14.  She was taken by the witch.  And she is Tremaine and WHook's daughter.  Based on the grand total of 5 minutes that I saw which included Regina/Cindrella talk about Anastasia and Tremaine wheeling in the box/coffin to where the woman was chained up.

Then who's in the coffin? Dun, dun, dun...

11 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I was being snarky when I predicted that Cinderella would be indirectly responsible for Anastasia's death, a la Snow and Daniel. I didn't really expect them to go there.

I wonder when Lady Tremaine learned that Henry had the Heart of the Truest Believer. Last episode, she wanted to kill him, no mention of trying to take his heart.

Though the witch at the end has some promise. Her, I like.

I did. There are only so many 'secret reason the villain feels justified in hating the hero' plots they seem to have on this show. Even Maleficent talked about having lost someone as the reason she went after Briar Rose.

I, too. How did she go from ordering Drizella to kill Henry to wanting his heart so fast? Why, last episode, did she want him to tell her the location of the glass slipper? Do the writers even realize the contradiction or did they not think about it when writing "A Pirate's Life" and just wrote that death threat to go with Henry being captured and rescued?

That said, this episode really picked up with the mystery at the end. Among other things, could Lady Tremaine and the Witch be sisters, like someone speculated on this site earlier? They clearly have history.

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

It was KAOSAgent, I think.  

Wow, those comments are really negative.  I wouldn't be surprised if they do a U-Turn for 7B.

Assuming they read/listen to the comments.

16 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

I'm so distracted by every single flashback, because I keep wondering: when are Henry and Cinderella going to do it? I know, that's awful, but unlike Henry, where his dad was out of the picture, the fact that Lucy is Henry and Cinderella's daughter is pivotal to the plot. And we keep seeing How I Met Your ... I can't even finish that sentence (::turns around three times and spits at Bays and Thomas:: ). This is also unlike Snow/Charming and Emma, where we saw pregnant Snow right away.

(And did he marry Cinderella? He's missing his "wife and daughter," so I assume, but it's never said. I don't think Lucy said "my mom is your wife," just "you're my dad" and "my mom is your true love." So like ... what exactly happened?)

I also want to know about the years Lucy was growing up in the New Enchanted Forest. Were Regina and Wish Hook there? Was Tiger Lily her fairy godmother?

Lucy did call her mom "your wife" in the premiere.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[darkestboy]

Weak episode. I don't hate her but Jacinda just isn't a compelling female protagonist and I'm wishing that Tiana had been the protagonist instead because she's a far more engaging character to watch to be honest.

The flashbacks with Cinderella/Tremaine weren't great but at least we know what's up with Anastasia and have some of Tremaine's game plan revealed.

Saying that though, it's a less compelling rethread of Regina/Snow/Daniel and the Witch at the end exuded more menace and intrigue than Victoria has managed to do in three episodes.

The Henry/Lucy and Rogers/Weavers scenes were okay but not too interesting.

I'm guessing we can expect a possible Tiana/Rogers pairing as the season progresses too, right? 6/10

[Mabinogia]

11 hours ago, Worsel said:

I really dislike the character Cinderella/Jacinda (nothing against the actress who is trying her best I'm sure.)

The sad thing is, based on the few others shows I've seen her on, she is doing her best. That's why can't figure out how the hell she got the job, unless they purposely tried to get the worst actors they could this season. Maybe they are actively trying to destroy their own show. The fact that pretty much all the plot so far is just recycled from the original show points to that too. 

The biggest mystery so far is why I even care. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Shrug. I like her.

I wonder what the Witch meant about what happens if Lady Tremaine succeeds. Magic comes to Seattle? It becomes like the Demon: The Descent supplement Splintered City: Seattle I eerily just saw mentioned in an advertising email, where the city is divided into pockets of alternate history and time runs at different rates? Everyone wakes up? The Witch goes free (nearly typo-ed "goes green")? Tremaine has to explain her sudden second daughter to the inquisitive? Ana comes back like Frankenstein? She has to deal with the fact that Ana, if she's as pure as everyone says, wouldn't appreciate the terrible things her mother did to resurrect her? That's something Rumple never seemed to consider about how Bae/Neal would feel. Or how Bae/Neal would feel about Rumple's various actions against Emma and Henry after Bae/Neal's death, or his consistent refusal to help out the extended family unless there's a deal in it for him. Puts the lie to any claim Rumple makes to respecting his son or caring about him in his own right (Belle too).

Oh, that reminds me. 'Anastasia' means 'resurrection'. I wonder if the writers knew that?

Ironically, the *other* Ana once said "I am many things, but pure of heart is not one of them."

So now that we know Victoria has her memories, does Ivy as well? But if anything, this episode casts doubt on whether Lady Tremaine cast the Curse, since her main goal is resurrecting Anastasia and, if anything, that's more of a challenge in Seattle, not less.

I hope we actually see her supposedly pushing fairytale characters out of the neighborhood at some point.

I preferred Wish Hook's "Not quite" when asked if he was Henry's father to Emma's "a... pirate like you".

Edited October 21, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[StaceyNotStacie]

This show is similar to Grey’s Anatomy in regards to where it is time wise. The cast isn’t the same and the stories and characters may never be as good as the first few seasons, but it is still enjoyable IMO. I’ve watched since the beginning and at this point I’m going to see it through. While I don’t care for the actresses who play Cinderella and Lucy, the story still peaks my interest. I still want to see where the story is going and how things resolve themselves. 

[KingOfHearts]

It's rather sad that we have a PoC Cinderella, and she's murderous, irresponsible, and abrasive. She's basically Merida.

Edited October 21, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Blue Plastic]

19 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

All the characters are just caricatures at this point. We're supposed to feel bad for Henry's grieving process, but he doesn't seem all that traumatized. We never got any hint of what life was like for his family before the fire. We're supposed to see Jacinda as Cinderella, but we haven't seen her do Cinderella-ish things. We haven't seen her clean Tremaine's house or get bullied by her stepsisters.

Yes, this is a very loose Cinderella interpretation.  We're just told she cleaned her stepmother's house but we don't see it.  She already has the glass slippers somehow by the time she meets Adult Henry - no mention of a fairy godmother or where she lives or how she got the fancy duds to go to the party where she intended to murder the prince.  Then we see that she thought about murdering Adult Henry, thought better of it, and decided to kill an the old man whom she was told was the most hardcore believer in the cause to get rid of the stepmother.  Then, back in present day Seattle, we see her trying to decide between the half-dead garden that nobody ever cared about before and a nice, though yet unbuilt, condo.  No good.  Hate this Cinderella.  They should have gone back to the drawing board before they put this dreck on TV.

Like you said, Adult Henry doesn't seem all that torn up for someone who thinks his wife and child died.  He's awful casual about not knowing where they were buried.  He doesn't realize that's a little odd?  Besides, his face is weird.  His nose makes him look like a bird.

Can't stand newfangled Rumpel and don't really like Hook 2.0, either.  The best character is Regina because at least she is fairly consistent with how she was in Storybrooke.  I can't believe I'm saying that.  Looks like her magic is working today.

The only mildly interesting scene was Lady Tremaine with whoever she is keeping prisoner in the basement or wherever that was.  Maybe Anastasia will get resurrected and this show will turn into Pet Semetary for Halloween?

I barely made myself watch this episode.

[Star Aristille]

3 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

This show is similar to Grey’s Anatomy in regards to where it is time wise. The cast isn’t the same and the stories and characters may never be as good as the first few seasons, but it is still enjoyable IMO. I’ve watched since the beginning and at this point I’m going to see it through. While I don’t care for the actresses who play Cinderella and Lucy, the story still peaks my interest. I still want to see where the story is going and how things resolve themselves. 

THANK YOU.  I'm going to continue watching, too.  And yep.  Definitely going to limit my time in these parts to keep my blood pressure down, because I still like the show and am not going to give up.  Even though a lot of this does feel like a case of been there, done that, it doesn't mean it all will be.

But yes, Cinderella/Jacinda is played by an awful actress.  But I think Lucy can get better with time.  She's a kid, and this must be the young actress's first job, so I'm going to give her a season or two (if this show gets another season after this one) to get better.

[maryle]

Zut, I watched most of it and... it was terrible!

First, all the Henry and lucy just remember me of tunnel with henry, emma and mayor regina! 

2 the dana ramirez I think is the worse actress I saw on this show her weird sad face she seem to like so much is just annoying but lady tremaine is not that better she just look a snob with her accent and not that menacing! 

The rest, the petition, weaver spying rodger just forgettable! And,  I have to admit that first season henry was more credible than lucy she just seem to recite.

Last thing the first season of this show it was a little show with a lots of heart now its pretentious  and lacking of hearth.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Can't stand newfangled Rumpel and don't really like Hook 2.0, either.  The best character is Regina because at least she is fairly consistent with how she was in Storybrooke.  I can't believe I'm saying that.  Looks like her magic is working today.

I'm not really impressed with any of the cursed personas, to be honest. They're all just cut-outs of themselves. Weaver is just Rumple in denim. Roni is Regina if her redemption arc had years of improvement. (Which we could speculate it might have.) Rogers is probably the most interesting one, but he's still just your stereotypical good guy. I have the same issues here that I've had with these characters throughout the show - the watered down, de-fanged, "redeemed" versions of these characters all boring. They don't have to be, but they are. By neutering them, the writers take away with energy and drive.

People seem to be okay with Roni, but I think that's because she's the kind of Regina the show's been promising for a while. She doesn't have all that baggage from her past tying her down. Lana seems to be channeling Ginny a bit.

Edited October 21, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[tennisgurl]

I feel really bad for saying this, but the new Cinderella is just not much of an actress. Its especially bad because we have her behaving in ways that are really unsympathetic, but the actress doesn't have the talent to make us feel her struggle in a way that would make us feel sorry for her. So here we get Murderella living up to her name by almost murdering a sweet old man in his sleep, and as Jacinda she fold pretty much instaly for the promise of a nice apartment. We are supposed to feel for her and root for her to do the right thing, but the actress is so wooden, I dont care at all. I dont really see what Henry sees in her. She isn't very funny, nice, smart, or even exciting, unless you count multiple attempted murders in the span of a few days as exciting. Which, well, considering how much he worships his mom Regina, maybe thats his type...*

This episode was just SO boring. Regina was actually pretty likable, adult Henry looking at his fake families grave, and the ending scene were the only things that I left this episode remembering with any real interest. Other than that, everything is just a retread of season 1, just without all that pesky charm and intrigue. In fact, they're even mentioning season 1 and how similar it is! Its not making me feel connected to the show, its just making me want to turn this off and watch season 1 again. 

Tiana is a more likable character and the actress is much better than most of the other newbies, but her place here just really bugs me. Tiana as a freedom fighting resistance leader in a magical medieval forest just seems like such a stretch, even for this show and its history of VERY loose character adaptations. I could buy Snow White or Red Riding Hood as medieval resistance fighters because they at least actually are from medieval fantasy lands in most of their stories, so it worked for me. Plus, they have lots of different versions of them throughout folk lore, so this being just another take worked fine. Tiana is a specific character (yeah the Frog Princess has been around, but she is clearly supposed to be the character from the Disney movie) from a specific movie, and she has nothing at all to do with medieval forests or fighting dictators in a resistance movement! She was a chef in 1920s New Orleans! She was a snarky workaholic! Her story was about jazz and voodoo and the bayou, it had nothing to do with her character here in either verse! I know this show has always had a habit of just using the names of famous characters and nothing else, but this is ridiculous. Even Aladdin and Jasmine, who were basically cosplayers who stole the actual Aladdin and Jasmines costumes, were from an actual magical middle eastern city. What does this have to do with Tiana at all?!?! Maybe they'll explain this later, but I am not holding my breath. 

Also, could they please clear up how much power Lady Tremaine has in the Enchanted Forest? Is she a queen? A Feudal Overlord? A Witch? Is she really so powerful that she needs a full on resistance living in the woods fighting against her? Or is this just some extreme camping trip thats taken a weird turn? We saw there was a Prince, so presumably theres a king or queen, who isn't Lady Tremaine, so why dont they do something about this? Are they in league with Tremaine too? I dont get whats happening! 

I keep looking at minor characters and crowd scenes to see if I can find fairy tale people in Seattle, or if I see Seattle people in the Enchanted Forest, and I never do. Did this stupid curse only effect, like, four people? Real scary dark curse you got there Vicky. 

*Holy Oedipus Complex Batman! 

Edited October 21, 2017 by tennisgurl

[StaceyNotStacie]

2 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

But yes, Cinderella/Jacinda is played by an awful actress.  But I think Lucy can get better with time.  She's a kid, and this must be the young actress's first job, so I'm going to give her a season or two (if this show gets another season after this one) to get better.

The actors playing Cinderella and Lucy don’t seem princessy enough. Lucy seems a bit tomboyish. I don’t know if it’s the actress’s appearance, but I would expect someone partially raised by Victoria to be more girly. The original characters (Snow, Emma, Belle and Regina) were tough, but they came off a bit more feminine. 

[Shanna Marie]

I think part of the reason this one fell flat is that they didn't really follow up emotionally from last week. It didn't matter at all to the flashback story that Hook was an entirely different person who's practically a stranger to Henry and Regina. We didn't see what their dynamics were. How does that little group work? How is a grown Henry relating to Regina? How is she dealing with a suddenly (to her) grown son?

I missed a bit from switching over to Crazy Ex-Girlfriend during commercial breaks, so was there any reason for Rogers to arrest that guy other than him getting an envelope of money from Victoria? Handing over envelopes of money isn't illegal. Getting an arrest warrant for bribery takes establishing all kinds of paper trails and evidence. Seeing him taking the money might be part of an investigation, but it takes more than watching him be handed an envelope in public. They're not even trying to make this make sense.

[tennisgurl]

Hey, I did think of one thing Cinderella and Henry can really bond over! They're mutual love of making big, ridiculous speeches in front of large crowds where they scream about some vaguely defined idea of "hope" while I feel secondhand embarrassment! 

Edited October 21, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Camera One]

24 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I missed a bit from switching over to Crazy Ex-Girlfriend during commercial breaks, so was there any reason for Rogers to arrest that guy other than him getting an envelope of money from Victoria? Handing over envelopes of money isn't illegal. Getting an arrest warrant for bribery takes establishing all kinds of paper trails and evidence. Seeing him taking the money might be part of an investigation, but it takes more than watching him be handed an envelope in public. They're not even trying to make this make sense.

I would really suggest re-watching the episode because you might have missed some great scenes.  :) 

To answer the question, no, there was no other reason for Rogers to arrest him.  It is another example of a complete misunderstanding of basic concepts of law.  It's also frustrating to watch because we are rooting for Rogers, but it was obvious that rich guy would get off scot free, somehow or another.  

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Also, could they please clear up how much power Lady Tremaine has in the Enchanted Forest? Is she a queen? A Feudal Overlord? A Witch? Is she really so powerful that she needs a full on resistance living in the woods fighting against her? Or is this just some extreme camping trip thats taken a weird turn? We saw there was a Prince, so presumably theres a king or queen, who isn't Lady Tremaine, so why dont they do something about this? Are they in league with Tremaine too? I dont get whats happening! 

Regina could just walk up and delete her in a matter of seconds. We've gone from immortal Greek gods and clones to the mother of all dark magic to... a greedy widow who needs a copy of Magic Wands for Dummies.

Edited October 22, 2017 by KingOfHearts