S19.E03: Contrapasso

[Aethera]

Quote

When a man is found castrated and left for dead, Rollins and Carisi uncover three female suspects with possible motives. Meanwhile, Langan brings devastating news for Benson.

[QueenMab]

A guy gets his fruit basket carved up and there's three suspects. Barba's gonna love this one.  Ick. 

[JyDanzig]

It's interesting that in a show that almost never has male victims, the guy getting castrated in this ep is the same actor who got raped by the gay sociopath in "Criminal Hatred."  His characters do not have a lucky time on this show!

[Gigglepuff]

More devastating news for Benson? Ugh. 

[dttruman]

On 10/9/2017 at 7:58 PM, JyDanzig said:

It's interesting that in a show that almost never has male victims, the guy getting castrated in this ep is the same actor who got raped by the gay sociopath in "Criminal Hatred."  His characters do not have a lucky time on this show!

I wonder if they are bringing that character back too, since the actor who played him is back?  They brought back Dana Lewis (played by Marcia Gay Harden) and she became a bad guy. Nothing surprises me anymore. What would surprise me, is if Olivia Benson sat out an episode or two.

[dttruman]

I wonder how much of this will resemble "Ridicule", where three women rape a male stripper.

On 10/9/2017 at 10:37 AM, Aethera said:

Quote

When a man is found castrated and left for dead, Rollins and Carisi uncover three female suspects with possible motives. Meanwhile, Langan brings devastating news for Benson.

Did anyone take notice of the last sentence. Guess who plays the character of "Langan"? You are all correct, it is Mariska Hargitay's husband. So how much of this "Castration" investigation (and trial if there is one) is going to be put on the back burner for this episode

[Spartan Girl]

It was worth watching just to see Carisi and Fin's reaction to the balls in the box.

God forbid Noah's long-lost grandmother couldn't have at least arranged to meet with Liv to see Noah and the kind of life they had before jumping to have the adoption vacated. Noah's been living with Liv for three years, for God's sake. Nothing like a custody case to expose how childish and selfish adults can really be.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[mtlchick]

Well foop. I was CONVINCED that Brooke Shields would be Liv's half sister from their father.  Didn't even consider her being Noah's grandmother. 

[TigerLynx]

Is it the idiot writer's intent to have Liv be the most miserable unhappy person on the planet?  How many times are they going to do the Liv's romance doesn't work out, and she doesn't get to continue to raise a child she has been taking care of for years?

I'm glad the jurors didn't buy into the one bad/illegal act cancels out another nonsense.

[TV-Lurker]

Benson gets a call in the hospital that Noah's "Child Abuse" case has been closed and she tells Rollins it is a "Happy Ending at least" minutes after she learned her just had an "amateur gonadectomy".

[ForeverAlone]

Generally speaking, I liked this case and this episode. I liked that the team actually had to investigate to get the truth, and the case was interesting. It almost felt like a mothership episode, only because the episode seemed evenly split between the cops and the lawyers. This didn't feel like a retread of earlier, better cases to me, and it raised a few interesting issues with the notion of "just" vs "fair". I felt that Rafael could have made a stronger, legal argument in his closing argument, but I guess since the defense attorney brought an emotional argument why Jason Carr should be acquitted, he had to fight emotion with emotion. I also would have preferred that the scene between Rafael and Olivia in the bar hadn't happened. This just gave the impression YET AGAIN that the only reason the prosecution was able to get a conviction is because St. Olivia had to intervene and spread her light and wisdom to the commoners. 

Of course I could have always dealt with less Olivia (the less the better for me these days), but no one can investigate or comfort victims or conclude a case like Olivia. Right now, I am withholding judgement on the Noah grandmother story. The concept sounds interesting, and certainly plausible, especially if the cops and lawyers hadn't done their due diligence to actually confirm the status of Ellie's parents. I would be more open to it, if we just hadn't had two episodes of absolute pointlessness when it came to the abuse charges. This just feels like more opportunity for Mariska to chew some scenery badly and eat up screen time from other characters. 

So again, I like the case, and roll my eyes at the excessive Olivia drama. I have a feeling that this will be the theme for me this season. :) :) :) 

[CleoCaesar]

Still pleasantly surprised by this season so far. (Although this episode is the third in a row where the rapist is a white male. We get it, writers. Switch it up a bit.)

Pretty good episode overall despite the ridiculous Noah drama. Is there anybody actually interested in that? Anyone? Bueller?

[balmz]

decent episode, liked the case, but i wonder how the one lgot a shell in the courtroom, also regardless of jason being castrated, i very seriously doubt any jury would acquit, one thing people generally hate are men who rape children regardless of them being castrated or not,,  barba's speech at the end was really weird, couldn't tell what he was going for, the olivia and noah thing was silly, the abuse thing was a waste of time, also with the grandmother and olivia, there's no reason why they couldn't do shared custody, noah gets extra attention from someone who isn't the babysitter and olivia can get a break. Even though they didn't know at the time about jason, olivia's speech about kids wanting to be adopted was actually pretty good and very valid.

[ForeverAlone]

Olivia fangirls seem to be digging this storyline. But the rest of us...not really. 

[dttruman]

IMO, this has to be one of the worst conceived episodes, when it comes to a rape investigation. Wasn't the rape charge he was brought up on committed some 20 years ago. They just can't make that retroactive now can they? They neglected to give any other supporting evidence,. It could easily be perceived that Evelyn was doing it out of spite and it was basically a "He said, She said". Granted what he did to the girls was wrong, but he seduced them not raped them. They just completely glossed over the assault or it could have been assault with a deadly weapon. Was he suing for her (or them) for damages. There are so many things that were left unanswered, because they had to get in that subplot about Benson and Noah.

[Angeltoes]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Brooke Shields is old enough to be someone's grandma.  

Annabeth Gish (who I've liked since Mystic Pizza) looks too thin.

[Gigglepuff]

I didn't like this one. I could tell where it was going and within the first 15 minutes I could tell that the victim would end up being the perp. I thought the story was weak and filled with cliches. Why couldn't the castration victim just be a victim? I know the writers would have get a little more creative but it could have been handled differently. 

The nasty husband of the first woman, (forget her name) was just an over the top trope of a nasty husband. They did that once already this season in the premiere, so enough with that. Seems to me like they are really overplaying the trope,

I did like how the squad investigated the case and I was happy to see the unit acting as a team.  Barba's court scene felt flat to me. Can't quite put my finger on it, but it seemed contrived?? I did not like how he once again had a change of heart and followed the orders of St. Benson. Did they really get a rape conviction based upon a poem? I wasn't paying the most attention at that point. 

As soon as we saw the castration guy's wife I knew that somehow, St. Benson would convince her to see things her way. I knew it, and I'm sick of it. Also didn't like Liv's condescending face when she found out that that the woman met the guy when she was in college. I guess if Liv had it her way, every couple on earth would be within 5 years of age of one another. 

The Noah drama is just too much. Part of me is hoping that Benson loses custody. I know that won't happen, but at this point I hate the character so much that I really don't care. her personal drama is just filler to me. 

[Xeliou66]

Average episode, but my least favorite of the season so far. 

The case was interesting, especially the first half of the episode, but I felt that the second half was too rushed and the legal case was weak. They didn't have enough evidence to charge Carr with rape, it was a pure he said-she said and she only cried rape after she castrated the guy and lied to the cops about it originally. There was no definitive proof that any rape ever took place, he should never have been convicted. I thought Carr's lawyer was pathetic, her closing statement didn't even address the fact that there was no proof of rape, the whole "just vs fair" thing was a distraction from the real issue of Carr's guilt or innocence. Had the defense lawyer focused on that the case was completely a he said-she said case from years earlier where the accuser had castrated the accused the defense would've won. I guarantee if Buchanan had been defending Carr he would've been acquitted quickly. Barba was incriedbly lucky to get a conviction, I didn't understand why he took on the case in the first place, they rushed to the trial to quickly, and I hated how Benson was trying to bully Barba into not offering a deal, it's time for Barba to grow a pair and tell Benson to back off and it's his decision whether he wants to deal, not hers. 

I thought the episode was filled with cliches as well, I knew from the start they were going to try to make the victim the bad guy simply because he was a man and the perps were women, and SVU is always biased towards females because of Mariska's own bias, so much for her being a victim's advocate if the victims are men. 

I have come to truly dislike Benson with a passion. Mariska's acting is truly painful to watch, she acts like the sky is falling in every single scene she is in, and Benson is just an unlikable bitch to everyone. She was awful to Langan tonight, Olivia should've checked herself to see if Ellie's parents were still alive, she's a detective after all. The forced Benson/Noah crap is awful and written because Mariska insists upon it, no one likes it, even a lot of the Benson fangirls hate how much personal crap they give her. Noah's long lost grandmother is a bitch unsurprisingly, and I'm not looking forward to endless episodes of 2 unlikable women battling for Noah. And come on, who didn't know that Brooke Shields was going to be playing some long lost relative of Noah wanting custody, I predicted that as soon as I heard the description of her character. This whole storyline is trash. 

The good part of the episode was that it involved everyone, and the good thing about the Benson personal shit is that she's in the office more and letting the others handle most of the detective work. I like that they are using Fin more, and I like him and Carisi working together. Barba was awesome as usual, he always brings a spark to his scenes and makes the episode much more enjoyable, he just needs better writing for the legal stuff and they need to stop letting Benson try to be his boss. It's time for Barba to tell Olivia to fuck off when she is trying to tell him how to prosecute. 

Next weeks episode looks interesting, Barba is back but no Fin which is very disappointing. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Xeliou66

[QueenMab]

WTH? How chummy are they gonna make Benson and Barba? Lately she calls him Rafael....never did that, always Barba. Now she calls him by his nickname ? Rafa? His friends and his mother call him Rafi. Now she has a "special" name for him she calls him in front of others?  WTH?! What are they getting at? They're banging and have been for five years and its love for eternity? For crap sake...detach those two! Its been immoral, unethical, and unprofessional from the get go. WTH?

[LittleIggy]

14 hours ago, Gigglepuff said:

More devastating news for Benson? Ugh. 

No joke! I’m sick of the Noah peril shit.

[QueenMab]

Well, that was a waste of time and film. Disjointed, blah blah from four women then twenty minutes of commercials, then a courtroom scene that was ???? Barba phoning it in. Brooke Shields the last second of this mess. It was nothing. An excuse for them to show up for work. Verdict? I didn't care. A whole season of this? Benoah? Yeesh!

[QueenMab]

FYI....in real life Manhattan DA Cy Vance is getting flak and taking serious corruption accusations because of dropping a case and then getting $$ from his "friend" Harvey Weinstein. And Barba got suspended?! If they're "ripping from the headlines" I would sure love to see how they would screw this story. 

[LotusFlower]

1 minute ago, QueenMab said:

FYI....in real life Manhattan DA Cy Vance is getting flak and taking serious corruption accusations because of dropping a case and then getting $$ from his "friend" Harvey Weinstein. And Barba got suspended?! If they're "ripping from the headlines" I would sure love to see how they would screw this story. 

Wasn't it just last week that this same DA dropped a case against Ivanka and Don Jr. for fraud (re: the now foreclosed Trump Soho condo bldg.), with their lawyer then contributing $10k to his re-election campaign?  Man, is this guy sleazy.  

[WendyCR72]

Has Dick Wolf not watched enough TV shows over the years - in their twilight years - where kids are brought on to save the stale shows, only to see them still wither and die?! He was before my time, but I've heard of the annoyance that was "Cousin Oliver" on The Brady Bunch. Noah is the new Oliver. And this is going to be an arc. Greeeeeeeeat! Not.

Although, like someone else pointed out, I can't believe that Brooke Shields is now old enough to play a grandmother! (It makes me feel old.)

[QueenMab]

Lotus flower....the Manhattan DA's office had been investigating the sexual abuse charges against Weinstein for over a year. Taking them seriously. Then Cy Vance dropped the investigation and voila! Oodles of money showed up in Vance's "war chest". This Weinstein thing is an honest to God big scandal and the Manhattan DA looks like he dropped it for Weinstein's money. The corruption is that the sex allegations have merit and the Manhattan DA's office just dropped it. Where was St.Benson to hammer poor Barba into investigating his boss because....ruining his career for Benson is his raison d'etre. Chicken poop show will take on Trump but not this story that is a big sex crime for real. I guess I'm issuing a challenge to the show. :)

[QueenMab]

I'm starting to spitball stories because almost anything would be better than so far. One episode tolerable...the next two...DUDS. And MH with her staring crazy eyes and mouth open in terrible anguish. She looks like that Tragedy mask symbol of the Theater. And that G**damn kid bs! ENOUGH!

[CelticBlackCat]

Noah in peril again!  CPS won't take him away from Saint O; that dog of a story had its day.  But wait!  There's more!  Granny Sheila shows up at Liv's door, again at Noah's bedtime like all her other visitors do, and announces herself as if that's supposed to mean anything.  Lady, get a grip on reality and hire yourself a lawyer.  Saint Olivia is not going to hand over Noah just like that.

Call me soft-hearted, but I kind of felt sorry for Benson when Langan showed up with his newsflash.

Why do we have to endure more Benoah drama?

The case was interesting, but the victim being a has been rapist was a little too convenient for the courtroom part of the story.  Shouldn't they have had the woman who did the butchering on trial?

Fin had a couple of good one-liners and I enjoyed Carisi and Rollins again.

[LotusFlower]

1 hour ago, QueenMab said:

Lotus flower....the Manhattan DA's office had been investigating the sexual abuse charges against Weinstein for over a year. Taking them seriously. Then Cy Vance dropped the investigation and voila! Oodles of money showed up in Vance's "war chest". This Weinstein thing is an honest to God big scandal and the Manhattan DA looks like he dropped it for Weinstein's money. The corruption is that the sex allegations have merit and the Manhattan DA's office just dropped it. Where was St.Benson to hammer poor Barba into investigating his boss because....ruining his career for Benson is his raison d'etre. Chicken poop show will take on Trump but not this story that is a big sex crime for real. I guess I'm issuing a challenge to the show. :)

Interesting, because this is an NBC show.  I don't know if you've been following the media war angle of the Weinstein story, but it's fascinating.  Basically, Ronan Farrow started the investigation while working at NBC News, but even though he had eight women on the record, as well as executives and assistants at the company and corroborating evidence, NBC called it "un-reportable," and did everything they could to kill the story, so he eventually took it to The New Yorker.  So yea, I doubt we'll see a ripped-from-the-headlines SVU episode on this saga.  Not on this network.  

To me, though, the Manhattan DA killing the Trump Soho/Ivanka/Don Jr. investigation is equally scandalous.  Not a sex crime, of course, but equally bad.  The proof of fraud was indisputable and overwhelming, and the indictments were written!  Then Vance abruptly spiked it, and voilá - $10k ends up in his campaign coffers from the Trump attorney.  How do they get away with this crap?!

[SerenityInSpace]

4 hours ago, QueenMab said:

WTH? How chummy are they gonna make Benson and Barba? Lately she calls him Rafael....never did that, always Barba. Now she calls him by his nickname ? Rafa? His friends and his mother call him Rafi. Now she has a "special" name for him she calls him in front of others?  WTH?! What are they getting at? They're banging and have been for five years and its love for eternity? For crap sake...detach those two! Its been immoral, unethical, and unprofessional from the get go. WTH?

I think Carisi called him Rafael in a deleted scene, so it might not be a big deal that Olivia called him Rafael. It's hardly that friendly to call someone by their first name.

 

Rafa though... I haven't seen the ep yet and that nickname sounds a bit weird. 

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, QueenMab said:

Lotus flower....the Manhattan DA's office had been investigating the sexual abuse charges against Weinstein for over a year. Taking them seriously. Then Cy Vance dropped the investigation and voila! Oodles of money showed up in Vance's "war chest". This Weinstein thing is an honest to God big scandal and the Manhattan DA looks like he dropped it for Weinstein's money. The corruption is that the sex allegations have merit and the Manhattan DA's office just dropped it. Where was St.Benson to hammer poor Barba into investigating his boss because....ruining his career for Benson is his raison d'etre. Chicken poop show will take on Trump but not this story that is a big sex crime for real. I guess I'm issuing a challenge to the show. :)

Apparently Weinstin carries a lot of "Clout", even SNL was not allowed run any of their sketches concerning Weinstein as per direct orders from Lorne Michaels. It's O.K. to run numerous sketches about Trump (and deservedly so), but if it's one of Lorne's friends, it just goes to show you how politically bias this show and most of Hollywood is today.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Another solid case investigated by the whole squad. It's amazing how actually giving everyone something to do helps cover for the lack of characters. I'd still really really like to see another detective and some supporting recurring characters, but it doesn't feel completely empty and stagnant like last year.
Fin and Carisi in the opening scene.
Solid acting from the guest cast.
Benson actually used her peephole in the ending scene and seemed to think twice about opening her door for a stranger! Yes it's a small victory, but I'll take what I can get at this point. Common sense twice in two episodes (this and taking Rollins with her to confront the perp instead of charging in alone) is a start we can (but probably won't) build on.

The Bad:
The rest of the opening scene. The uniformed cops don't check out the obvious blood trail? Which could lead to the victim or the perp and in any case is part of the scene that they are supposed to secure?
So the ridiculous child abuse plot wasn't Liv's enemies ginning up charges out of nothing or the way they were going to bring in Brooke Shields? It just sort of fizzles out? So there was no point to this nonsense after all? And while we're speaking of the unspeakable stupidity that is Benoah, boy that scene with Benson and Langan was a stinker. Poorly written, poorly acted, and just ridiculous. You know that we have memories SVU staff? When we see Liv lecturing people for doing the same thing she has done many times before (like taking witnesses/victims at their word and not checking things out thoroughly) it strikes a false note, unless you follow up on it and make it clear it was intended. It's also clunky writing as there are a million ways you could retcon this without making Langan look like an idiot (a name change that wasn't properly filed perhaps so it doesn't come up in the regular searches would probably be enough) although I guess that wouldn't make St. Benson enough of a martyr.
Poor use of Barba and some backsliding on the legal aspects. While this wasn't total Pod Barba there was still a return of Liv making legal decisions. Come on guys why not have Barba there when we are offering pleas? Or at least a line of dialogue that he is the one authorizing the plea offer and has final approval? And I was hoping that Benson explains the importance of justice for victims to Barba who then takes her words as holy writ was a dead and buried SVU trope.
The promo for the next episode shows we're getting yet another episode about intimidated/reluctant victims. I know that it's a real and important issue, but it was done to death last season and has already been done this season. Let's stay away from featuring it for awhile please and give us more variety please.

Overall this was a step backwards. Still better than last season and competently executed and the case held my interest, but it wasn't up to the standard of the previous two episodes and some bad habits seem to be creeping back in. I'm hoping this is just an aberration and we can get back to classic SVU cases with a Benoah subplot that can be ignored for the rest of the season. And that MC who is clearly the best writer they've had on the legal side in years asserts his authority and doesn't let anymore nonsense like this get through.

[sockii]

I didn't like this one. Something about it all just felt off and flat. The plot felt too predictable, there was way too much cliched  exposition, and I wanted to throw a brick through the screen at several points (Liv being all judgey like a Tumblr anti- about age-gap relationships; the whining from the guy and his wife how their hopes for a "family" were ruined because he couldn't have biological kids now; Langan and Olivia and the idiot plot of not thoroughly checking if Noah had any living relatives; even minor things like, I'm sorry, Carisi—as much as I'm not a HUGE fan of his—would know what contrapasso means.)

It's a shame because I thought the episode started with promise, with the initial scenes of Fin and Carisi together working the case.

Also, like the way last week's episode reminded me in ways of the far superior early episodes Closure 1 & 2, this one reminded me of the (also much superior) "Ridicule". Which managed to spin a number of different issues into one case with a clever twist. This was just far too linear and thereby uninteresting to me.

[slowpoked]

It said this case was "ripped from the headlines"...from what headline is this?

[watcher1006]

If the Brooke Shields story is a way to have Noah exit the show, then good! The Noah adoption story has felt unbelievable and forced from the very beginning. Sure, like a judge is going to single out a law enforcement officer in her courtroom and encourage her to take on a loose end child in a murder case and then expedite the paperwork. With a whole NY state department assigned to child care plus a long list of families looking to adopt. And a police sergeant doesn't seem like an ideal single parent to me. Having the Noah story has pushed the show to spend more time on its prima donna, as if it doesn't do it enough already.

Edited October 12, 2017 by watcher1006
Addition

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, wknt3 said:

The rest of the opening scene. The uniformed cops don't check out the obvious blood trail? Which could lead to the victim or the perp and in any case is part of the scene that they are supposed to secure?

One of their little ways of making SVU detectives look smart, by making other cops look incompetent. To me it throws out the realism

4 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Solid acting from the guest cast.

I agree with this to a point, because the actors can only do so much to make a lousy story line and dialogue believable.

[JyDanzig]

13 hours ago, Gigglepuff said:

I didn't like this one. I could tell where it was going and within the first 15 minutes I could tell that the victim would end up being the perp. I thought the story was weak and filled with cliches. Why couldn't the castration victim just be a victim? I know the writers would have get a little more creative but it could have been handled differently.

Well, I'm at least glad I'm not alone!  There were good moments scattered throughout the first half hour, but this episode really failed for me.  It was so tedious how this setup leads, once again, to the powerful white man raping the pretty young white girl.  We get it, show.  Wouldn't it have been much more interesting to leave the rape as statutory and thus unprosecutable, and then have the case be about prosecuting the woman, and wrestling with what the just verdict is for her?

The closing arguments were so stupid.  So stupid that I wonder if maybe it is me who is stupid and I just did not understand what was happening -- because it seemed to me that, OFF OF A POEM, the defense attorney admitted her client was guilty of the rape, but just said it would be unfair to punish him for it?  Was that really it?  Why not just go with the argument that this woman is crazy and made up the rape to soften her own sentence?  Because they had literally mountains of evidence to support that!

But anyway, if this is the point they wanted to get to, a better route is showing us the woman's trial for the assault!  It turns that what-is-justice argument inside out, in a way that a jury might actually go for.  "This man raped her, and she has no chance of getting justice for it.  She should not be punished for this assault, because she had no other recourse to punish him for the way he victimized her."

13 hours ago, Gigglepuff said:

The nasty husband of the first woman, (forget her name) was just an over the top trope of a nasty husband. They did that once already this season in the premiere, so enough with that. Seems to me like they are really overplaying the trope,

I feel like we should start a pool for how many times we're going to see the one/two scene Asshole Boyfriend/Husband this season.  What better way to quickly engender sympathy for our sad, tragic victims?  I'm going to guess... nine.  Nine episodes this season will have versions of this character.

8 hours ago, SerenityInSpace said:

I think Carisi called him Rafael in a deleted scene, so it might not be a big deal that Olivia called him Rafael. It's hardly that friendly to call someone by their first name.

 

Rafa though... I haven't seen the ep yet and that nickname sounds a bit weird. 

That "Rafa" came out of her mouth so awkwardly.  It was clunky enough I was surprised they didn't loop it with "Rafi" or something.  Retire this quick!  "Rafael" was good enough!

5 hours ago, wknt3 said:

So the ridiculous child abuse plot wasn't Liv's enemies ginning up charges out of nothing or the way they were going to bring in Brooke Shields? It just sort of fizzles out? So there was no point to this nonsense after all?

As much of a drag as this is to contemplate, I assume it will become a key element in the custody case.  "Detective Benson is SO unfit that she was recently investigated for ABUSE, and it was discovered that she allowed Noah to walk into oncoming traffic!"

5 hours ago, sockii said:

It's a shame because I thought the episode started with promise, with the initial scenes of Fin and Carisi together working the case.

That opening was a cruel tease!  Sharp dialogue, strong character work, good locations, well shot, smoothly edited -- it really suggested a great episode ahead!  And then the whole thing crashes and burns before we've even hit the opening credits...

Edited October 12, 2017 by JyDanzig

[TigerLynx]

The case was somewhat interesting, but I could do without all the Noah drama, Benson drama, Rollins drama or drama for any other main character for a very long time.  I hated all the Nick and Elliott drama to.  I miss the early years of the mothership L&O when Briscoe or Logan would make a passing reference to Mike having a date or Lenny's ex-wives, and that was it.  Even if they had an episode or arc about something going on in their personal lives, it didn't consume the entire show 24/7.

I wonder about our odd criminal laws.  I don't understand why there would be a statute of limitations on any violent crime ever.  If the creep hadn't forcibly rape one of the girls, he would have gotten away with statutorily raping at least three (probably more) teenage girls?

[dttruman]

I think the drama concerning Noah will be, that if Olivia Benson gets custody then the courts will designate her as Noah's "grandmother" and Benson won't want that. It's funny that Brooke Shields is 52 years old and Mariska Hargitay is 53 years old. I wonder if the age thing will come up during the custody hearing?

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, slowpoked said:

It said this case was "ripped from the headlines"...from what headline is this?

I don't think the castration was the ripped from the headlines aspect. I believe it was the open secret sex abuse scandals at Horace Mann, St. Paul's School, Choate, and others.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/10/confronting-teacher-horace-mann-abuse.html

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/06/retired-horace-mann-teachers-sex-confession.html

https://www.thedailybeast.com/elite-prep-school-st-pauls-reveals-history-of-sex-abuse-scandals

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/14/choate-prep-school-investigation-sexual-abuse/100457226/

[Corvino]

The explanation of "contrapasso" to Carisi by the woman who did the deed (name?) wasn't quite accurate. Sinners in Dante's Inferno don't get the opposite of their sin as punishment, they get a physical manifestation of their sin. So people who allowed their sexual passions to carry them away get blown about by winds, sullen life-hating people are submerged in black mud, people who split the church with heretical preaching have their bodies split by a demon with a sword (and then it heals so the demon can do it again), rageful murderers and tyrants stand in a river of boiling blood, etc. Therefore, castrating a rapist is not exactly a contrapasso, since it is the opposite. Except that the crimes are equivalent in that, in the sexual arena, rape is what women generally fear most and castration is what men generally fear most. In the play "Extremities", the would-be rapist forces his prospective victim at knifepoint to say she wants to be raped, and when she foils him and gets the upper hand her vengeance is to force him at knifepoint to say he wants to be castrated. (She doesn't do it, just calls the police.) So an equivalence is perceived by more than our character.

Did he just lose his balls or did she cut off the whole apparatus? If the latter, the only headline I can think of is the Lorena Bobbitt case, which was a long time ago and not a similar situation. But when Bobbitt claimed she did what she did to her husband because he abused her, the courts apparently decided they were both such awful people that what they did to each other was a wash. That opinion is refuted here. If I'd been on the jury I might not have known what Barba was getting hysterical about, so it's lucky this jury had a good sarcasm detector.

ETA: Okay, HunterHunted is surely right about which headlines. Not castration in this millennium. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Corvino
to acknowledge new info and reassure on an "Extremities" plot point

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

The case was somewhat interesting, but I could do without all the Noah drama, Benson drama, Rollins drama or drama for any other main character for a very long time.  I hated all the Nick and Elliott drama to.  I miss the early years of the mothership L&O when Briscoe or Logan would make a passing reference to Mike having a date or Lenny's ex-wives, and that was it.  Even if they had an episode or arc about something going on in their personal lives, it didn't consume the entire show 24/7.

No one likes the personal stories. The mothership was always better at the personal drama. Even in the end when we got more personal stories, it was never as overwhelming as it is here. Criminal Intent was all personal stories especially if it was Goren, but that's the kind of show it was. However people have always complained about the personal drama on SVU. It doesn't matter if it is UnStabler and his 20,000 boring messed up kids or St. Oliska and precious Noah. Boring.

4 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

If the Brooke Shields story is a way to have Noah exit the show, then good! The Noah adoption story has felt unbelievable and forced from the very beginning. Sure, like a judge is going to single out a law enforcement officer in her courtroom and encourage her to take on a loose end child in a murder case and then expedite the paperwork. With a whole NY state department assigned to child care plus a long list of families looking to adopt. And a police sergeant doesn't seem like an ideal single parent to me. Having the Noah story has pushed the show to spend more time on its prima donna, as if it doesn't do it enough already.

I wish Noah would exit the picture or at least be featured as frequently as Rollin's baby or Fin's son (Who? Precisely). Liv's indignation at her husband Langan is ridiculous because didn't the SVU do the investigation of Noah's mom's murder? And participate in the prosecution of the pimp/gang banger who killed her? How did they manage to never attempt to do a death notification to her family? This shit is on the police and CPS because wasn't Noah in foster care. I remember him being in foster care. No one bothered to search for the mom's family.

2 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I wonder about our odd criminal laws.  I don't understand why there would be a statute of limitations on any violent crime ever.  If the creep hadn't forcibly rape one of the girls, he would have gotten away with statutorily raping at least three (probably more) teenage girls?

The purpose and effect of statutes of limitations are to protect defendants. There are three reasons for their enactment:

• A plaintiff with a valid cause of action should pursue it with reasonable diligence.
• By the time a stale claim is litigated, a defendant might have lost evidence necessary to disprove the claim.
• Litigation of a long-dormant claim may result in more cruelty than justice.

The middle bullet point being really important given how we know how faulty human memory is.

11 hours ago, SerenityInSpace said:

I think Carisi called him Rafael in a deleted scene, so it might not be a big deal that Olivia called him Rafael. It's hardly that friendly to call someone by their first name.

Rafa though... I haven't seen the ep yet and that nickname sounds a bit weird. 

I know a guy from Spain named Rafael. He goes by Rafa.

[TigerLynx]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

The purpose and effect of statutes of limitations are to protect defendants. There are three reasons for their enactment:

• A plaintiff with a valid cause of action should pursue it with reasonable diligence.
• By the time a stale claim is litigated, a defendant might have lost evidence necessary to disprove the claim.
• Litigation of a long-dormant claim may result in more cruelty than justice.

The middle bullet point being really important given how we know how faulty human memory is.

But the statutory rapes and forcible rape were committed in the same time period.  The statute of limitation had run out for the statutory rapes, but not the forcible rape.  Given the thousands of people in authority who have taken advantage of underage children, and the number of those assaults that were hushed up, it seems like the statute of limitations for any kind of rape would be the same amount of time.

[HunterHunted]

7 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

But the statutory rapes and forcible rape were committed in the same time period.  The statute of limitation had run out for the statutory rapes, but not the forcible rape.  Given the thousands of people in authority who have taken advantage of underage children, and the number of those assaults that were hushed up, it seems like the statute of limitations for any kind of rape would be the same amount of time.

I think you are thinking about statutory rape the wrong way. Statutory rape basically presupposes that humans even minors are sexual beings. That even though a minor might want to have sex, we as a society have decided that the minor lacks the cognitive capacity to consent to sex. As much as the minor believed that he or she truly wanted to have sex, they can never consent because of age. It's the same with individuals who are under a guardianship. 

There are all sorts of weird statutory provisions associated with statutory rape depending on the jurisdiction. States have Romeo and Juliet provisions. There are pre-existing relationship provisions. There are age floors limiting the use of a statutory charge, for example: anyone over the age of 18 having sex with a child under 14 is sexual abuse of a child which is punishable the same way as forcible rape in some jurisdictions. There are also states that have enacted extra penalties for teachers, pastors, and others who they believe owe an extra duty of care towards minors. It might be just as damaging to the victim, but our legislators have decided there is a difference between these various sexual assaults.

[QueenMab]

UPDATE: NYPD is asking and getting more victims of Weinstein to come forward, they are "investigating intensely" and the real Manhattan SVU is working with the victims. And nobody including Ronin Farrow, believes NBC did not know and not suppress the sex allegation stories. SVU heavily involved in building case. So...how in the Hell does this show get around this one? Ripped from the headlines? This is the biggest. If they don't, its proof this show takes place in a New York that only exsists in soap operas. I would hate to be the writers right now.

[DesertCyclist]

21 hours ago, Angeltoes said:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Brooke Shields is old enough to be someone's grandma. 

Shocking, isn't it?!  But she was 14 when she posed for this in 1980, which makes her around 51 (my age).  Gulp!

[Tdoc72]

22 hours ago, Angeltoes said:

 

Annabeth Gish (who I've liked since Mystic Pizza) looks too thin.

Yes--way skinny. She's a long way from when she played Pudge in the movie Shag. I've always liked her too.  She generally turns in a solid performance in whatever she's in. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Tdoc72

[ShortyMac]

RME so much at this Benoah crap.

Hello, Brooke Shields.

Alright, now that that's out of the way...

I actually didn't hate the COTW, or it held my attention, at least. The fact that three women were in on the act and their connections to each other made it interesting to me and I liked the transitions between each of their confessions/stories to SVU. I enjoyed the closing arguments, as well.

I agree that Gish looks too thin.

[Xeliou66]

18 hours ago, wknt3 said:

The Good:
Another solid case investigated by the whole squad. It's amazing how actually giving everyone something to do helps cover for the lack of characters. I'd still really really like to see another detective and some supporting recurring characters, but it doesn't feel completely empty and stagnant like last year.
Fin and Carisi in the opening scene.
Solid acting from the guest cast.
Benson actually used her peephole in the ending scene and seemed to think twice about opening her door for a stranger! Yes it's a small victory, but I'll take what I can get at this point. Common sense twice in two episodes (this and taking Rollins with her to confront the perp instead of charging in alone) is a start we can (but probably won't) build on.

The Bad:
The rest of the opening scene. The uniformed cops don't check out the obvious blood trail? Which could lead to the victim or the perp and in any case is part of the scene that they are supposed to secure?
So the ridiculous child abuse plot wasn't Liv's enemies ginning up charges out of nothing or the way they were going to bring in Brooke Shields? It just sort of fizzles out? So there was no point to this nonsense after all? And while we're speaking of the unspeakable stupidity that is Benoah, boy that scene with Benson and Langan was a stinker. Poorly written, poorly acted, and just ridiculous. You know that we have memories SVU staff? When we see Liv lecturing people for doing the same thing she has done many times before (like taking witnesses/victims at their word and not checking things out thoroughly) it strikes a false note, unless you follow up on it and make it clear it was intended. It's also clunky writing as there are a million ways you could retcon this without making Langan look like an idiot (a name change that wasn't properly filed perhaps so it doesn't come up in the regular searches would probably be enough) although I guess that wouldn't make St. Benson enough of a martyr.
Poor use of Barba and some backsliding on the legal aspects. While this wasn't total Pod Barba there was still a return of Liv making legal decisions. Come on guys why not have Barba there when we are offering pleas? Or at least a line of dialogue that he is the one authorizing the plea offer and has final approval? And I was hoping that Benson explains the importance of justice for victims to Barba who then takes her words as holy writ was a dead and buried SVU trope.
The promo for the next episode shows we're getting yet another episode about intimidated/reluctant victims. I know that it's a real and important issue, but it was done to death last season and has already been done this season. Let's stay away from featuring it for awhile please and give us more variety please.

Overall this was a step backwards. Still better than last season and competently executed and the case held my interest, but it wasn't up to the standard of the previous two episodes and some bad habits seem to be creeping back in. I'm hoping this is just an aberration and we can get back to classic SVU cases with a Benoah subplot that can be ignored for the rest of the season. And that MC who is clearly the best writer they've had on the legal side in years asserts his authority and doesn't let anymore nonsense like this get through.

I agree with all of this. It was a step backwards after a strong start to the season. The Benson/Noah stuff is poorly written, poorly acted useless trash, only MH likes it, even a lot of the hardcore Benson fans are fed up with the constant personal baggage they give her. 

I'm very sick of Olivia being involved in the legal stuff and trying to boss Barba around, she isn't Barba's boss and Barba needs to grow a pair and tell Olivia to fuck off. 

I hope the next episode isn't another PSA about how great it is for rape victims to come forward and testify. It's really hurt the show how Mariska is using it to push a social agenda, that's why we have all these stories about Benson pushing women to testify because that is one of Mariska's projects is to convince women to come forward, it gets ver tiresome, this show isn't supposed to be a PSA it's supposed to be entertainment. 

I like how they are giving every character screen time and I really like how Fin and Carisi are working together a lot this season. It sucks that Fin won't be on next week. The only good thing about the Benson personal crap is she seems to be in the office more and the other detectives are getting to do more detective work.

Last nights opening was very promising and I liked the first half and then the episode totally derailed in the second half. 

[KikiBda]

On 11 October 2017 at 11:07 PM, TigerLynx said:

Is it the idiot writer's intent to have Liv be the most miserable unhappy person on the planet?  How many times are they going to do the Liv's romance doesn't work out, and she doesn't get to continue to raise a child she has been taking care of for years?

I'm glad the jurors didn't buy into the one bad/illegal act cancels out another nonsense.

What ever happened with the IEB or IED guy?  Who always had it in for Elliot and SVU? She dated him right?  I'm not up with the new ep much, I just started catching them.  I marathon the oldies all day Sunday and Tuesday evening. 

[JyDanzig]

49 minutes ago, KikiBda said:

What ever happened with the IEB or IED guy?  Who always had it in for Elliot and SVU? She dated him right?  I'm not up with the new ep much, I just started catching them.  I marathon the oldies all day Sunday and Tuesday evening. 

When the showrunner changed at the start of season 18, this relationship was quickly disposed of in an awkwardly written breakup.  I don't even remember what the issue was, I just remember the bad writing.  As setup, there were episodes where some other character would ask Benson, apropos of nothing and totally inappropriately, "you seem to be in a bad mood, things OK with you and Tucker?", and then Benson would say some dark, vague thing and gaze off into the distance for a moment.

Whatever the show-logic reason was, it felt like they might as well have just put up a title card that said "new showrunner bored by people in relationships" and then never shown Tucker again, and it would have been about equally as satisfying as what they did.