Season 5 Discussion

[Boofish]

19 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/thai-dowry.php

 

"One important thing that you should keep in mind when discussing Thai dowry is that its amount is based on your Thai fiancee’s status, education, occupation and other related social background information (such as her virginity). An average middle-class, university-educated Thai lady deserves a dowry of 100,000- 300,000 baht. A dowry of a million baht for an uneducated lady of modest means is just ridiculous. Thai dowry prices fall drastically if your bride-to-be has been previously married, already has children, or is not a virgin anymore. In fact in most of these instances, no dowry deserves to be paid."

So in Thailand he would only have to buy Evelyn's family a sheep

[Chalby]

On 31 October, 2017 at 8:37 AM, BXD said:

 Amazing how everyone loves to jump at Evelyn for being Christian and have no problem calling her out on her religion but somehow it is offensive to call out Azan and his overly controlling Muslim ways. Sorry but I would never visit a country where I would be arrested for holding hands.

I don't necessarily think everyone 'jumps at Christians'. It's just that TLC has a history of loving Fundy Christians - and they have a LOT to jump at, including their sketchy homeschooling and unrealistic world views - e.g. there's no European dream. Fundy Christians are also very similar in their gender stereotypes as old school Muslims, so TLC is probably in tv Heaven.

27 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I found the whole bride price negation to be uncomfortable from all sides. 

I can't even quote a specific comment because your whole post was hilarious (and slightly sad). But thank you for the morning laugh. I do think Anne will be 'nice' to David Poor, and he is relatively harmless as he is just so grateful that someone wants to sleep with him. I am sure other gals go cheaper, but I am comparing it to cheap prostitution and the assumption she'll stick around for ten years. If that's the case, even $15,000 is a deal.

[Emmeline]

On 10/30/2017 at 7:58 AM, greekmom said:

 

I highly doubt it Nicole cooks anything. It's all take out and microwave dinners.

I’m sure she never really cooks.  I don’t know how much Azan knows about that 1 room efficiency Nicole lives in but it cannot have much in the way of a kitchen.    I wonder where Azan is going to live if and when he comes to Florida?

[Sprockets]

4 minutes ago, Emmeline said:

I wonder where Azan is going to live if and when he comes to Florida?

I wonder if they've even discussed living situations.  Her father's condition is they can't live together.  So where is Hassan supposed to pitch his tent?  

[AussieBabe]

Molly could've done a shit load of things to help ease that transition. For starters, getting engaged to a guy after two months, moving him into your home with your children, and not introducing them until the visa was secured and you were standing in the airport awkwardly fawning over him as your oldest daughter looked on are examples. It wouldn't have killed Molly to suggest a family dinner or hell even a long weekend trip to the DR. Flights are extremely cheap, so why didn't they meet before that day? I'm sure if Olivia had been given the chance to talk to Luis, get to know him, a little about where he's from, etc., she might have been a bit more welcoming. I guarantee it would've blown over better than her forcing Olivia to be cordial and friendly to placate her. The young lady obviously needs space, and Molly doesn't seem to understand that. I don't think it has anything to do with sharing her mum. It sounds like Molly has made a tonne of decisions that have probably indirectly or directly affected her. Sometimes parents can do shit that makes you burn out faster than flickering candle. If the rumours about her having drug charges and DUIs has any truth, umm, hello, your child might resent you for not learning your lesson the first, second, or even third times. That also might explain why the uncle is there, too. Despite his lack of employment, he seems pretty sensible and probably a sense of stability while Molly throws caution to the wind and follows her lady parts. I sense resentment. I think it's like my pastor said last Sunday. Molly's dealing with the fruit of the issue--Olivia's overall disinterest in her new shiny toy boy--and not the root--that something is amiss between them and that child can barely stand to be around her. I think it's deeper than just teen angst or her being petulant. It was probably one thing for Molly to do this foolishness behind closed doors, but it's a beast of another kind for it to be an international reality show. And yes, when I returned to Melbourne, they were showing 90 Day Fiance. Olivia doesn't even seem interested in being filmed, but I bet Molly wasn't having that. Molly, babe, you're not Miki Howard, and your girls do not have to "Come Share Your Love."

Po' David is like a sad sack. My goodness. You're obviously being taken. $15,000 USD? Umm, okay. The come up and glow up for her family was about to be real. 

I enjoyed David's snark. The Bon Appetite was the cherry on my sundae. Speshul Snowflake is about to be in for a rude awakening. There's no European dream? Okay, darlin'. That's why people flock to those countries, sometimes buy holiday homes, and Europe houses some of the most famous tourist destinations. But there's no European dream. (Miriam on BF the 90 Days flat out said she didn't want to move away from Paris while talking to Patrick.) But there's no European Dream because everybody wants to come to the US only. Girl, bye.

Nicole and Azan need to just quit. I see no real benefit. I can't seem them ever getting married. If he's in it for the green card, he could find somebody who he doesn't have obvious disdain for. If nothing else, he could be friends with the person. Nicole is a psychotherapist's dream client because the stuff she does is mindblowing and like a mindfuck. I'm going to let my impressionable two year old call you daddy, but you're not allowed to parent her like a father. You get to be that in name and title only but have no real responsibility. But wait Azan will get criticised for NOT being a parental figure. Nicole has no business getting married. He needs to find someone who cares about their health, enjoys the things he does, etc. Might I suggest Elizabeth? Because Andrei....yeah, dude seems all kinds of sketchy.

Elizabeth is one of those women who has mastered angles, filters, etc. It's absolutely amazing how she looks different on camera, on video chats, and in talking heads. She can do better. Desperation isn't a good look.

Edited November 2, 2017 by AussieBabe

[Desert Rat]

On 11/1/2017 at 6:18 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

I still think that Luis is creepy, but even if he isn't, it is a creepy situation for Olivia to be stuck in.  Olivia doesn't seem like a generally rude or disrespectful child.  She strikes me as a good kid who is totally fed up with her mother's crap, I don't blame her.  

If David and Evelyn really love each other, I think they can work out their differences.  I still think she is too young, though.   I don't really get what excitements of a big city a married, "devout Christian" man would miss so badly.   I think both of them have displayed some selfishness.  But, it is better for them to assert themselves and tell each other what they want, than to gloss over these things,  get married and then either fight or be bitter over not getting their way for years.  

David Poor is pathetic, but maybe maybe he deserves some credit.  Somehow he has managed to become a "sugar daddy" with no job and no money. :)

Exactly.  These are the negotiations couples should have while dating and engaged.  Instead of fussing over bridesmaid dresses and who will pay for tuxedo rentals and all the other crap that goes into a wedding, they need to spend time seriously discussing and planning their future. Where do they want to live? What schooling and careers do they want to pursue? How many kids, if any?  How will they spend their free time? What are their attitudes about money, spending money, saving money?  How will they raise their children?  How will they educate the children, discipline the children?  And it goes on. This is the serious work couples should do to have a good foundation for marriage, not stupid wedding plans. But if you are 18 and have been planning a wedding your whole life with an imaginary husband, you probably are too young and immature to answer these questions yourself and therefore unable to negotiate with your future spouse. 

[Emmeline]

On 10/30/2017 at 7:58 AM, greekmom said:

 

I highly doubt it Nicole cooks anything. It's all take out and microwave dinners.

I’m sure she never really cooks.  I don’t know how much Azan knows about that 1 room efficiency Nicole lives in but it cannot have much in the way of a kitchen.    I wonder where Azan is going to live if and when he comes to Florida?

On 10/30/2017 at 7:58 AM, greekmom said:

 

I highly doubt it Nicole cooks anything. It's all take out and microwave dinners.

I’m sure she never really cooks.  I don’t know how much Azan knows about that 1 room efficiency Nicole lives in but it cannot have much in the way of a kitchen.    I wonder where Azan is going to live if and when he comes to Florida?

[Sprockets]

14 minutes ago, Desert Rat said:

15 minutes ago, Desert Rat said:

These are the negotiations couples should have while dating and engaged. 

 

Evelyn's questionnaire:

Where do they want to live?   Right here, forever.  

What schooling and careers do they want to pursue?  I had my education in the dining room.  I will sing.  

How many kids, if any?  As many as God provides. 

How will they spend their free time? I will sing, and bake cookies, and stifle honest emotions..  

What are their attitudes about money, spending money, saving money?  God will provide.   

How will they raise their children?  In my faith.

How will they educate the children, discipline the children?  In the dining room.  With disapproval.  

[Desert Rat]

46 minutes ago, Sprockets said:

Evelyn's questionnaire:

Where do they want to live?   Right here, forever.  

What schooling and careers do they want to pursue?  I had my education in the dining room.  I will sing.  

How many kids, if any?  As many as God provides. 

How will they spend their free time? I will sing, and bake cookies, and stifle honest emotions..  

What are their attitudes about money, spending money, saving money?  God will provide.   

How will they raise their children?  In my faith.

How will they educate the children, discipline the children?  In the dining room.  With disapproval.  

Yeah, she's ready for marriage alright. She will have a tough time when life hits her hard, cancer, job loss, cheating, disabled child, natural disaster, crime victim, drug addicted child, disabling car accident, and so on.  Her trite answers will be of little consolation. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Desert Rat

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, Sprockets said:

How will they raise their children?  In my faith.

Both have stated that they share their faith so that seems normal.

 

22 minutes ago, Desert Rat said:

hat schooling and careers do they want to pursue?  I had my education in the dining room.  I will sing.  

When did they mention she was home schooled? She spent at least some time in a regular school because that is where she met Mikayla.

[Arwen Evenstar]

4 hours ago, Chalby said:

Greedy assholes? Compared to…? I am sorry, but he is the one who agreed with her when she said she wants her parents looked after. That is the whole point of her offering to marry someone with whom she has no chemistry. She seems like a lovely daughter, and $1500 doesn't even cover what an American gal would expect just for her marriage ceremony. $1500 for their daughter's sexual and physical servitude for at least ten years. But that's greedy… woah?

THIS!!!  He’s going to have to spend way more than that on health care every month in the US for his decrepit old  happity ass.  And, poor Annie is going to end up being his nursemaid.

The fact that she’s willing to bind herself to someone like this if it helps her family out tells me that she puts those she loves most above her own self interest. It makes my skin crawl that this lovely young woman has to pick some old cheapskate like this, but he does seem to appreciate her. I just hope he pays every bhat to her family.

[Jeanne222]

20 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Single parents get to have sex too. Nothing wrong with that in itself.

Get a room!!!

20 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Politely disagree. A single woman is not a "ho" for having sexual relationships outside of marriage.

For every story about "mom's babysitting boyfriend" you hear one about coaches, preachers, bio dads, uncles, cousins, neighbors, etc.

It is making me very uncomfortable to continuously imply that Luis is a child molester. I am quite happy to snark on the idea of him being an opportunist and a "frauder" but, to me, insinuating that he is naturally going to cross that sexual line is a whole other can of worms. We don't know him, or Molly, or even the real situation. What we know is based on a highly-edited 2-minute segment made for our entertainment.

But we do know that she has two young vulnerable daughters that she is responsible for.  Very bad mistake bringing a man into those girls safe haven. 

[Jeanne222]

6 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I understand your points.  I don't know if she's a "ho" nor do I automatically believe Luis is going to be a molester.   But her love life is heads and tails more important to her than the concerns and welfare of her children.  This applies to all women with children that think it's perfectly acceptable to bring over a stranger based on what I believe are sexual infatuations with men that are typically out of their leagues (although I think Luis is not hot at all, just young); the men that are coming over don't seem to have their best interests at heart making their characters already dubious.  In short, if you have children, these women should slowly get to know these men and slowly introduce themselves to their children.  If not out of concerns that their intended could be a child molester, but to at least show your children that you aren't an impetuous person bringing over someone you don't know because you tell yourselves you are in love.  I can see the children of these idiots telling their moms at 18 that they are getting married to someone they have dated for just weeks.  How could they argue against that with their track records?

Thank you.  You said it much better than I did!  My only concern is the children.  I love children and think them so very vulnerable.

[calpurnia99]

When my son was Olivia's age, he always disagreed with me. He is a really pleasant guy, all his life, but for about 1-2 years, about age 15-16, he was a real pill. When she said "Oh My God!" It was in the exact tone he used to use with me to mean "I totally think you are a stupid idiot for saying that" " Oh My God! "- he used the SAME tone to say that phrase. Let me point out I also live in Suburban Atlanta, so maybe that is a thing with teenagers here. Also it has been about 8 years since my son used it on me. I am not saying she has no reason to resent her mother for bringing this guy into the house. I'm saying that when you add this age to the situation, it is a real shitfest. 

[Sprockets]

2 hours ago, Desert Rat said:

Yeah, she's ready for marriage alright.

She's not ready for life, let alone marriage.  Who was, at her age?  And she is very young for her age.  

[Pepper Mostly]

3 hours ago, Sprockets said:

Evelyn's questionnaire:

Where do they want to live?   Right here, forever.  

What schooling and careers do they want to pursue?  I had my education in the dining room.  I will sing.  

How many kids, if any?  As many as God provides. 

How will they spend their free time? I will sing, and bake cookies, and stifle honest emotions..  

What are their attitudes about money, spending money, saving money?  God will provide.   

How will they raise their children?  In my faith.

How will they educate the children, discipline the children?  In the dining room.  With disapproval.  

For how she spends her time, she needs to include seething with silent resentment.

For disciplining, I wonder if her family does blanket training, a la the Duggars?

41 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Get a room!!!

But we do know that she has two young vulnerable daughters that she is responsible for.  Very bad mistake bringing a man into those girls safe haven. 

There is already a man in the safe haven, the girls' uncle.

@calpurnia99, I agree, Olivia reads eye-rolling teenager to me, nothing more.

[Desert Rat]

18 minutes ago, Sprockets said:

She's not ready for life, let alone marriage.  Who was, at her age?  And she is very young for her age.  

I know at 18 I was not ready for marriage.  So I went to college and grad school first. It prepared me for life and I got to sow my wild oats before settling into the routine of marriage. But these committed virgins can't see the forest for the trees. 

[Sprockets]

16 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

For how she spends her time, she needs to include seething with silent resentment.

See "stifle honest emotions" above.  

[Arwen Evenstar]

19 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

if her family does blanket training, a la the Duggars?

I highly doubt it.  I’m a regular snarker on the Duggar forums on PTV.  They’re evangelicals for sure, but they play secular music and Evelyn poses in bikinis and doesn’t wear prairie frumpers with clown collars. Evelyn wouldn’t be allowed to wear a bikini or play secular music if her family was that strict.  I’m sure once she’s old enough, she’ll see no issue with enjoying a glass of wine now and again.  Evangelical or conservative or devout Christian does NOT always mean Duggar level strict.

I grew up in East Texas and I am well familiar with this demographic. I knew IFB people (Independent Fundamentalist Baptists) that almost looked like heathens compared to the Duggar level of strict. Even the Duggars have lightened up on a few of their rules, and their closes friends, the Bates Family (on UpTV) have lightened up.  Their daughters are wearing pants and shorts and letting the grandkids wear normal swimwear instead of that awful Wholesomewear that weighed more wet than the kid did. The company went out of business, so maybe they have no other options. But still I’m glad they are realizing that pants in some instances are more modest than a skirt.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Arwen Evenstar

[Pepper Mostly]

7 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I highly doubt it.  I’m a regular snarker on the Duggar forums on PTV.  They’re evangelicals for sure, but they play secular music and Evelyn poses in bikinis and doesn’t wear prairie frumpers with clown collars. Evelyn wouldn’t be allowed to wear a bikini or play secular music if her family was that strict.  I’m sure once she’s old enough, she’ll see no issue with enjoying a glass of wine now and again.  Evangelical or conservative or devout Christian does NOT always mean Duggar level strict.

I grew up in East Texas and I am well familiar with this demographic. I knew IFB people (Independent Fundamentalist Baptists) that almost looked like heathens compared to the Duggar level of strict. Even the Duggars have lightened up on a few of their rules, and their closes friends, the Bates Family (on UpTV) have lightened up.  Their daughters are wearing pants and shorts and letting the grandkids wear normal swimwear instead of that awful Wholesomewear that weighed more wet than the kid did. The company went out of business, so maybe they have no other options. But still I’m glad they are realizing that pants in some instances are more modest than a skirt.

Oh I knew that. Just having my snarky fun. Carry on!

[Arwen Evenstar]

9 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Oh I knew that. Just having my snarky fun. Carry on!

Oh, crap!  Sorry...I should’ve known better with you.  You do snark over there from time to time as well.  My bad.

[Pepper Mostly]

1 hour ago, Sprockets said:

See "stifle honest emotions" above.  

LOL. OK, how about "folding your underwear and wishing you dead"?

[balisticnikki]

On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 9:18 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

I still think that Luis is creepy, but even if he isn't, it is a creepy situation for Olivia to be stuck in.  Olivia doesn't seem like a generally rude or disrespectful child.  She strikes me as a good kid who is totally fed up with her mother's crap, I don't blame her.  

 

I think she is mostly angry bc her father left them and isn't involved. Prbly blames her mother. Then Kensley's father put a baby in her mom and left them. Then Molly's fiancée left them. No telling how many others left them. Seems like the immediate area is predominantly White while Olivia and her sister are Black (biracial). With only a White mom there for her....and a racist grandfather spewing a bunch of shit. And now Molly's choosing another guy who prbly looks like the rest of them and it's reopening old wounds and infuriating her all over again that her mother's little flings have lasting and painful effects. It's hard for a kid to show a parent respect when...the kid simply doesn't respect the parent.

[Sprockets]

8 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

OK, how about "folding your underwear and wishing you dead"?

Yes.  She should do a lot of that.  

[DangerousMinds]

5 hours ago, Sprockets said:

I wonder if they've even discussed living situations.  Her father's condition is they can't live together.  So where is Hassan supposed to pitch his tent?  

He works in Morrocco, right? Save sone money before you move to another country, as we all would.

[Kath94]

14 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

He works in Morrocco, right? Save sone money before you move to another country, as we all would.

I doubt those two will ever get to that point.  It's all for the TeeVee and TLC paycheck.

[ethalfrida]

1 hour ago, Desert Rat said:

I know at 18 I was not ready for marriage.  So I went to college and grad school first. It prepared me for life and I got to sow my wild oats before settling into the routine of marriage. But these committed virgins can't see the forest for the trees. 

Although the trend has lessened it wasn't too long ago that 18 was a good age for marriage. One of my aunts married at 13 but her situation was critical. My grandmother had passed away and there was only my aunt and her sister left to care for my ailing grandfather. So when my uncle asked for her hand in marriage my grandfather was relieved that she would be taken care of. And she was. It is one of the most intriguing family stories but briefly... my uncle was a cowboy, the son of a plantation owner and a fearsome dude all around. In later years, he looked just like Colonel Sanders. Anyway, they stayed marriage.

Regarding the age of marriage pre- 1970s, it was common for 18, 19 year old women to marry. Not everyone was opting for college and there were plenty of jobs from domestic to professional to be had. But young women also came with a lot of training from home and school on how to be a housewife no matter what the aspirations were. We were generally well-rounded. I have to admit though my statements are all-inclusive and not just by race/culture, they are not founded on regions I am unfamiliar with. Like back east or northern areas. But out west and down south, yes, 18 was perfect.

[Arwen Evenstar]

14 minutes ago, ethalfrida said:

Regarding the age of marriage pre- 1970s, it was common for 18, 19 year old women to marry. Not everyone was opting for college and there were plenty of jobs from domestic to professional to be had. But young women also came with a lot of training from home and school on how to be a housewife no matter what the aspirations were. We were generally well-rounded. I have to admit though my statements are all-inclusive and not just by race/culture, they are not founded on regions I am unfamiliar with. Like back east or northern areas. But out west and down south, yes, 18 was perfect.

When I was in high school, plenty of girls married at 18 or 19. I’m just over 50, so that trend  had just started to change that many more opted to finish college or lived together prior to marriage.   Back then, life was simpler and pretty much anyone wanting a job had one. 

It wasn’t until the mid 80s that computers started to make jiobs obsolete and the steel industry was drawing its last breath.   Then the end of pensions, unions, a big oil recession, and manufacturing going overseas was the beginning of the end of a living wage, and 18 to retirement age employment.  All of these made for an uncertain future for anyone contemplating marriage at 18, or even at 30 today.  Jobs that never required a college degree now do, and college costs way more now than it did when I was at university.

[jpagan05]

On 10/30/2017 at 6:10 AM, TaraS1 said:

It is bending my brain how much Evelyn looks like Jessica Pare from Mad Men.

Jessica Pare is sexy as hell and Evelyn is so vanilla. I thought Anne Hathaway....

[ArcticWolfRS]

On 11/1/2017 at 8:18 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

If David and Evelyn really love each other, I think they can work out their differences.  I still think she is too young, though.   I don't really get what excitements of a big city a married, "devout Christian" man would miss so badly.   

Really? I can think of tons - concerts, museums, art galleries, theatre, opera, even something as mundane as movies - I just moved from a small town where the nearest movie theater was nearly an hour away, now I can choose from 3 within a 10 minute drive. There are professional sports teams downtown for those that are into it (I'm not). While I doubt David is a ballet fan, I'm now a 30 minute drive from a major company; before it was nearly a 2 hour drive to see a minor company. I went from a town where the only socializing groups were for SAHMs (and they specified you had to bring your kid/s), religious meetups of a fundie variety (including 2 Gothard groups!!!), and collegiate groups (sports and frats/sororities) to a city where I'm getting bombarded with meetup emails for science talks, fitness meetups, bookclubs, debates and panel talks, ballroom dance lessons, etc, etc, etc, and that's not even including socializing in general. None of those are at bars or in any way inappropriate for a married "devout Christian." I have seen meetups for religion from all across the spectrum and all paths - and non-paths - with both believers and non-believers welcome. And the *libraries* I have near me now are a dream compared to what I just left. While I doubt David and I have any of the same interests, there are just more options to pursue any of those interests in a bigger city. 

I grew up not too far away, back when that suburb was still fairly rural. I moved to an even small town to go to college and never left. I'm sitting here kicking myself for taking so long to move back in the first place.  I'm a homebody, my perfect Saturday night is usually curling up with a book, and I still am excited about all the choices I have for things to do vs all I didn't have before. 

I agree that they need to work out their differences, and I also agree that Evelyn is too young - she doesn't have the maturity that any of this requires. She seems very sheltered and I actually think her moving to a big city would do her a world of good, but I don't see it happening. 

[Desert Rat]

3 hours ago, ethalfrida said:

Although the trend has lessened it wasn't too long ago that 18 was a good age for marriage. One of my aunts married at 13 but her situation was critical. My grandmother had passed away and there was only my aunt and her sister left to care for my ailing grandfather. So when my uncle asked for her hand in marriage my grandfather was relieved that she would be taken care of. And she was. It is one of the most intriguing family stories but briefly... my uncle was a cowboy, the son of a plantation owner and a fearsome dude all around. In later years, he looked just like Colonel Sanders. Anyway, they stayed marriage.

Regarding the age of marriage pre- 1970s, it was common for 18, 19 year old women to marry. Not everyone was opting for college and there were plenty of jobs from domestic to professional to be had. But young women also came with a lot of training from home and school on how to be a housewife no matter what the aspirations were. We were generally well-rounded. I have to admit though my statements are all-inclusive and not just by race/culture, they are not founded on regions I am unfamiliar with. Like back east or northern areas. But out west and down south, yes, 18 was perfect.

I grew up in the 70s, too.  My best friend throughout high school married a year after high school at 19, and had her first baby a year later. They are still married. Even though they were young, they dated for over two years and knew each other very well.. So we took very different paths that work for us.    Unlike Evelyn, she was not a sheltered, delusional princess chasing a fantasy

[DangerousMinds]

39 minutes ago, ArcticWolfRS said:

Really? I can think of tons - concerts, museums, art galleries, theatre, opera, even something as mundane as movies - I just moved from a small town where the nearest movie theater was nearly an hour away, now I can choose from 3 within a 10 minute drive. There are professional sports teams downtown for those that are into it (I'm not). While I doubt David is a ballet fan, I'm now a 30 minute drive from a major company; before it was nearly a 2 hour drive to see a minor company. I went from a town where the only socializing groups were for SAHMs (and they specified you had to bring your kid/s), religious meetups of a fundie variety (including 2 Gothard groups!!!), and collegiate groups (sports and frats/sororities) to a city where I'm getting bombarded with meetup emails for science talks, fitness meetups, bookclubs, debates and panel talks, ballroom dance lessons, etc, etc, etc, and that's not even including socializing in general. None of those are at bars or in any way inappropriate for a married "devout Christian." I have seen meetups for religion from all across the spectrum and all paths - and non-paths - with both believers and non-believers welcome. And the *libraries* I have near me now are a dream compared to what I just left. While I doubt David and I have any of the same interests, there are just more options to pursue any of those interests in a bigger city. 

I grew up not too far away, back when that suburb was still fairly rural. I moved to an even small town to go to college and never left. I'm sitting here kicking myself for taking so long to move back in the first place.  I'm a homebody, my perfect Saturday night is usually curling up with a book, and I still am excited about all the choices I have for things to do vs all I didn't have before. 

I agree that they need to work out their differences, and I also agree that Evelyn is too young - she doesn't have the maturity that any of this requires. She seems very sheltered and I actually think her moving to a big city would do her a world of good, but I don't see it happening. 

YES!! This post made an impression on me and I was still quietly formulating a response. Cities have different types of people, cultures, languages. They have Thai, Indian, Cuban, Italian, Salvadoran, Vietnamese, etc. restaurants. They have live music, theater, dance, art, and comedy. I miss living in a big city! And all these things CAN certainly be enjoyed just as much while married, can't they?

Edited November 3, 2017 by DangerousMinds

[lucy711]

Years ago it was common to marry at 18 or 19, but teenagers were also expected to act more adult-like and mature than they do today.  Evelyn is marrying at an age common in 1950 with a millennial upbringing.  It doesn't work.

[Frozendiva]

10 hours ago, Desert Rat said:

Yeah, she's ready for marriage alright. She will have a tough time when life hits her hard, cancer, job loss, cheating, disabled child, natural disaster, crime victim, drug addicted child, disabling car accident, and so on.  Her trite answers will be of little consolation. 

There are lots of people like her.  Known a few at work. Slightly different scenario - working 'temp' doing whatever til the multimillionare comes along and whisks her away to the fabulous mansion.  Living with the parents, paying no rent, doing nothing. No car, no signs of independence. You ask about Plan B - getting some sort of skill in case something happens and life throws a few curveballs. The rich husband and/or God will provide. Ummm, nope. They look at you as you are from another planet. No, I'm a few years older than you and always ensure that I can take care of 'me' if something goes terribly wrong.

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 hours ago, lucy711 said:

Years ago it was common to marry at 18 or 19, but teenagers were also expected to act more adult-like and mature than they do today.  Evelyn is marrying at an age common in 1950 with a millennial upbringing.  It doesn't work.

THIS!

[Bryce Lynch]

10 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

YES!! This post made an impression on me and I was still quietly formulating a response. Cities have different types of people, cultures, languages. They have Thai, Indian, Cuban, Italian, Salvadoran, Vietnamese, etc. restaurants. They have live music, theater, dance, art, and comedy. I miss living in a big city! And all these things CAN certainly be enjoyed just as much while married, can't they?

I live in the suburbs and work in Manhattan,  I wish I was able to escape the filth, crime, noise, streets lined with junkies and drunks, obnoxious, inconsiderate people, traffic, taxes, etc.  

How often does the average city resident actually go to the ballet, a show, a museum, etc.?  Probably not much more often than the small town tourists who take an occasional trip to the city.

I get that some like city life, but to me it is mostly awful.  I could see more upside for young, single people.  But for a married, Christian couple, it seems like 90% downside to me 

[DangerousMinds]

I lived in a big city for 15+ years and ate at all kinds of restaurants frequently, saw live music frequently, and regularly went to the theater, etc. I did these things whether in or out of a relationship. Plenty of married couples I knew did the same. I am not sure what part religion plays in enjoying city life. On a daily basis, I loved being surrounded by people of different colors and cultures, and hearing many languages spoken other than English.

In David's case, I understand he studied languages, so I am sure he would enjoy the diversity of a city. And certainly would have more job opportunities in a major metro area where Spanish is frequently spoken. I lost out on many job opportunities because I DIDN'T speak Spanish well enough.

[MrSmith]

On 11/2/2017 at 8:33 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

I feel icky even talking about how much cash (and buffaloes) a woman is "worth".  

I agree with you on this. If I were in that situation, I would rather dowry not even be discussed or ever brought up. I would be more comfortable simply paying for the wedding of her dreams, providing a good life for her wherever we live, and helping improve her family's fortunes as we're able to over time. Anything else would seriously feel like buying a wife and that would just drive me away.

[Drogo]

The show participants are fair game for unbridled criticism and snark.  The other posters on the forum are not. 

[Sprockets]

44 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

On a daily basis, I loved being surrounded by people of different colors and cultures, and hearing many languages spoken other than English.

 

Ditto.  I'm stuck in the remote wilderness now, but I grew up in D.C., lived in NYC and London.  I very much enjoyed the multicultural diversity, the availability of goods and services, and the hustle and bustle of a city.  If he needs that, not having it might be an insurmountable obstacle.  He's going to need the stimulation, and it ain't comin' from Evelyn.  

Mr. Smith: "Anything else would seriously feel like buying a wife and that would just drive me away."

Anyone who feels that way - and I get it - probably wouldn't get into that situation to begin with.  Negotiation for a bride is part of many cultures, though.  

Edited November 3, 2017 by Sprockets
oopsie

[MrSmith]

11 minutes ago, Sprockets said:

Mr. Smith: "Anything else would seriously feel like buying a wife and that would just drive me away."

Anyone who feels that way - and I get it - probably wouldn't get into that situation to begin with.  Negotiation for a bride is part of many cultures, though.  

This is true. I would not let myself get into that position. Even if I were single, interested in marrying a Thai woman, and knew nothing about the role the dowry plays in their culture, I would extricate myself from the relationship as soon as I became aware.

[ethalfrida]

Here is the dilemma for me.

In many of these "dowery" cultures women are not worth two dead flys. They are stolen, raped, turned out into prostitutes, married off starting at ages 8. If an right year old's husband dies when she is 9 then she is not allowed to return to her family, his family or normal society. So why the demand for these dowerys? I just can't coordinate my head around it... is she worth something or is she not?

[Jeanne222]

Sooo I was thinking an unpopular, I'm sure, thought.  What if David told the whole family "l'm an American and we don't do dowry's". 

I know he's a dumbass and lucky to get anybody at all but with that all said and done he's 'not one of them' so why should he have to provide a dowry?

Let him tell them she can find one of them that believes in dowry's to dowry them and marry her.

Just saying...

[Awfarmington]

6 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Sooo I was thinking an unpopular, I'm sure, thought.  What if David told the whole family "l'm an American and we don't do dowry's". 

I know he's a dumbass and lucky to get anybody at all but with that all said and done he's 'not one of them' so why should he have to provide a dowry?

Let him tell them she can find one of them that believes in dowry's to dowry them and marry her.

Just saying...

Your comment made me curious about something. Realistically, David has no redeeming qualities that Annie would be attracted to. Except a green card, of course. But he has nothing, seemingly only the allowance from his friend. How would he be able to support her in the US if he can't support himself? Unless the goal is to milk him for as much as they can with the dowry, then move on to the next guy. I just can't figure out her angle, so that's my best guess. 

[millennium]

On 10/29/2017 at 10:37 PM, Splithair said:

"You sound like someone who isn't dating."

Says the 26 year old alleged virgin.

Essentially echoing the very thought Evelyn insulted Mykala with last time: "Have you ever been in love?"

I would say Evelyn and David deserve each other except that Evelyn has an excuse for her assholery: she's basically just out of high school and has zero experience in the real world.   An only daughter, smitten with herself, raised in a small town by nonconformist parents who promote the delusion that she's a great singer ... of course she's unlikable.   I'd like to think there's a valuable young woman under there somewhere but I'm afraid she'll never see the light of day.  The way things are going Evelyn will never get a chance to grow or be on her own.   She's being handed off from one set of masters to another.   I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I feel bad for Evelyn.

[millennium]

On 10/29/2017 at 11:48 PM, Bryce Lynch said:

I get Evelyn wanting the tuxedos in her wedding.  But why doesn't she just get her family to pay the extra $500?

She's on a national television show.  She should turn on the pretty girl/local celebrity charm and convince some nearby tux rental place that it would be great advertising for them to furnish the tuxes for free.

On 10/30/2017 at 0:15 AM, Splithair said:

Hard to tell what kind of guy Luis is yet, but I didn't care for some of his comments about Olivia's behavior.  Not that he doesn't have a right to his opinion or that his comments were even incorrect, but I just hope he doesn't think he's going to be some sort of father figure that lays down the law. She's 17 and he is just popping into her life all of a sudden; the best he can hope for is a friend/mentor type of relationship. 

I dated someone who was 7 years older than me, but had their first son really young. I was only 8 years older than him, and there was no way I was ever going to try and play some sort of parent/step-parent role with him. If Luis has good intentions, treats Molly well and is respectful of Olivia and her relationship with her mom, I think she will eventually come around. Kids, regardless of their age, know when someone is for real or not.

Luis seemed disappointed that Olivia wouldn't be joining them for breakfast.

[millennium]

On 10/30/2017 at 0:25 AM, WhatsUpDummy said:

Right?! I thought I was the only one who noticed this. When we see her through a phone lens she looks so different, much prettier IMO. Weird. 

Phone Elizabeth is a doll.    It's like a 2017 version of that Seinfeld episode about the girl who looks great only in certain lighting.

[millennium]

On 10/30/2017 at 10:47 AM, annewithaneee said:

 

First of all, she lives in the basement, which is the "god I hate my family/parents" teen bedroom of choice

brilliant!  lol

On 10/30/2017 at 0:10 PM, TaraS1 said:

It is bending my brain how much Evelyn looks like Jessica Pare from Mad Men.

 

Think she does a cover of "Zou Bisou Bisou" on one of her CD's?

[millennium]

On 10/30/2017 at 9:42 PM, Bryce Lynch said:

Luis has a generally creepy air about him.  The single creepiest thing I saw was during the tour of Kensley's room when he told her she would have to start spending the whole night their because he would be sleeping with her Mommy.

 

It's the frozen grin and the constant, wide-open eyes.

[millennium]

On 10/30/2017 at 8:15 AM, fountain said:

Azan’s food discussion was obnoxious.  Why does Nicole need to cook for him?  He is an adult he can cook for himself.  If he expects such gender roles he better be taking 3 jobs to support the family.  Then the frozen food stuff, nothing is wrong with things being frozen, it is a good method of preservation and things like frozen veggies have lots of benefits.  I cannot believe he though chocolate was better than fries when sugar and not fat is most people’s problem. 

Okay, so when Azan, Nicole and May sat down to eat in the hotel restaurant, the waiter came over and put down three wine glasses of a frothy red liquid with a pinkish head: one in front of May, one in front of Nicole, and one in front of Azan.  I said to myself, "Did that waiter just serve May a drink?"

The camera zooms in on Azan and Nicole as they start to get into it about whether Nicole is lazy.

The camera pulls back again for a wide shot of the table.   The three glasses are still there: Azan's is still full, Nicole's is half-full, and May's is completely drained, with frothy bits drying on the inside.

Question: did Nicole suck down the drink in front of May before she started on her own?   Or did poor, disgusted May just pick it up and knock it back herself?

Edited November 4, 2017 by millennium