Season 5 Discussion

[millennium]

On 10/23/2017 at 3:52 PM, Madding crowd said:

And it's easy to be judgmental about people's looks but I dont feel comfortable with comparing her to animals or saying nasty stuff about her weight. Her personality yes.

This is just my impression, and I don't claim it has any validity, but I can't help but regard Nicole's weight as an extension/physical manifestation of her personality.   

[bethster2000]

4 hours ago, Sugar said:

My head canon goes like this: David moves into Pastor Tim's apartment, and the two end up falling in love and running away to San Fransisco to raise French Bulldogs, leaving Evelyn to rip out her mullet in rage and despair. She channels her heartbreak into a solo album that flops so spectacularly, the family has to sell their home. She then auditions for The Voice and not only does she not get a single chair turned, but she is not asked to "try again next year". Evelyn's not-as-pretty friend is a successful HR Manager, and when Evelyn comes to her begging for work, Not-as-pretty friend tells her to eff off, and then shows off the gigantic engagement ring her fiance, a recently-single Ryan Gosling has just given her.
I am not religious, but I would pray to every god to make this happen. Sorry y'all. I really can't stand Evelyn.

Epic.  :-)   I'm choking on popcorn now, and that's on you.

[Arwen Evenstar]

5 hours ago, Sugar said:

My head canon goes like this: David moves into Pastor Tim's apartment, and the two end up falling in love and running away to San Fransisco to raise French Bulldogs, leaving Evelyn to rip out her mullet in rage and despair. She channels her heartbreak into a solo album that flops so spectacularly, the family has to sell their home. She then auditions for The Voice and not only does she not get a single chair turned, but she is not asked to "try again next year". Evelyn's not-as-pretty friend is a successful HR Manager, and when Evelyn comes to her begging for work, Not-as-pretty friend tells her to eff off, and then shows off the gigantic engagement ring her fiance, a recently-single Ryan Gosling has just given her.
I am not religious, but I would pray to every god to make this happen. Sorry y'all. I really can't stand Evelyn.

Hilarious!

[millennium]

On 10/24/2017 at 0:37 AM, TrininisaScorp said:

 

Father Evelyn continues to freak me out.  Did Evelyn's voice get worse?!  She's so screechy!  Every time she says "Pastor Tom", I think of Sue Hecht talking about Rev Tim Tom.  LOL.   Grenada David actually seems relatively normal.  He only seemed shifty to me when doing the talking head about sex b/c we all know that he isn't a virgin.  I don't believe that David is going to be happy in middle of nowhere NH.  Evelyn seems really "my way or the highway" with everyone.  "No, we will not move.  Ever.  Obviously."   When you are married, you don't get to make unilateral decisions like that without some discussion.  Yeah. This marriage is going to be GREAT.  

 

The Evelyn storyline is frustrating me.   I want to hate her because of the superiority she laid on her friend last week.  But I have to keep reminding myself that Evelyn is scarcely out of high school.   The shitty way she treated Michaela seemed right in step with other spoiled girls her age who think the whole world revolves around them, a misperception that usually clears up after a semester or two at college or when they have to go out and get a full time job.   I kind of feel sorry for Evelyn because pretty as she is, she's going to be stuck in that high school mindset for the foreseeable future thanks to her family's insane decision to marry her off rather than encourage her to continue her education.  I wonder if that decision was made from a selfish standpoint -- that if Evelyn were to go away to college, the family band would fall apart.   By fitting Evelyn with a ball and chain instead, the threat to the band's future remains low.   I even wonder if Father and Mother Evelyn are living vicariously through Evelyn.  They both seem too pleased by all this.  Even so, they seem likable enough.

I had hoped that David would show up with "dick" written on his face but so far he seems like a nice guy -- that is for someone who has a yen for "barely legal" girls.   So that frustrates me too.   There's nothing I can point at and say "This is not going to end well!"   

I know there must be a bad guy somewhere in this story but he -- or she -- has yet to be revealed.  

Edited October 25, 2017 by millennium

[MrSmith]

15 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Big ugly rings in your ears that make your ears look like a gynecologist's stirrups, even when you take the gauges out. 

There. That's better and, obviously in my opinion, much more accurate and descriptive. :D

[Standard Staples]

6 hours ago, millennium said:

There's nothing I can point at and say "This is not going to end well!"   

I know there must be a bad guy somewhere in this story but he -- or she -- has yet to be revealed.  

Nothing at all? Not Evelyn's smugness? Not her entitled attitude? Not the fact that she clearly refuses to bend to any of David's actual desires in terms of living arrangements/locations? Not the fact that she has no marketable skills, he can't work and she believes God will provide? Not the fact that he's a 27 year old man that tracked down a 17 year old based on bikini pics on Instagram from 2,000 miles away? I wish them the best, but I see plenty of red flags.

Do I think they're on track for a quick divorce? Not necessarily. But I also wouldn't be surprised to see him get fed up with her attitude within a year or two, especially when the cold hammer of reality from an unforgiving music industry comes down hard on the family band.  

Edited October 25, 2017 by Standard Staples

[Sprockets]

6 hours ago, millennium said:

There's nothing I can point at and say "This is not going to end well!"   

Exactly.  I admire your rational assessment.  The producers deliberately give us conflicting and inadequate information.  We know there are important things we don't know yet, and we might never know.  And if anyone ever knew for sure anything was not going to end well, we would be living in a different universe.  All we can do (pretty much ever) is wait and see.  

[mamadrama]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

I think it is embarrassing for him to have loud arguments in public that make people turn around and take notice of who he's with.

Azan seems hypersensitive to what strangers may think.   He's almost having a full-blown anxiety attack about walking down the street with a toddler on a leash.   Can you imagine how he must feel about being seen with Nicole?   I'm surprised his glasses don't have a fake nose and mustache attached to them.

Having spent some time in Morocco, I don't blame him. Cultural differences aside, the laws alone are different there.  There are things we take for granted here as far as what is socially acceptable and what is even legal, that aren't so in other countries. I remember being in one country a few years ago and getting fined for taking pictures of a police station. In 1999, I was actually escorted to a police station and threatened with arrest for taking pictures of landline removals without getting written permission-and it wasn't like I broke into the site. I was on a bus, taking pictures. (I have since learned to learn the various picture-taking laws, ha ha.) When you're in another country, you are subject to their laws, regardless of your American citizenship. He might be going overboard with some of his reactions but he might also be overly cautious because he doesn't want Nicole to do something that could put them both in jeopardy. 

 

Seriously, though, I'd probably go with the disguise.  I would be embarrassed to walk down the street with Nicole in Casablanca. She is the epitome of the "Ugly American"- loud, abrasive, whiny, condescending, and only wants to do things that remind her of her own culture. 

[Normades]

12 hours ago, Sugar said:

I live in Thailand (Northern province), and Annie's family is absolutely fleecing Poor Dave. The Sin Sod (dowry) is based on the family's status, and the bride's education/career. In the preview, it shows them asking for 500,000 baht (15k USD), which is what you would pay if you were marrying a celebrity or very educated woman from a high ranking family.  On average, you'd pay around 100-150k baht if you were marrying a woman with high school/some college education from a middle class family in a medium sized city/town. If she's a simple farm girl with limited schooling and her family's status is non-existent, you'd pay around 25,000-50,000 baht ($800-1500 USD). Given that I've been to the village that Annie is from (very small and poor), unless she is secretly a brain surgeon or on her way to winning Miss Thailand 2018, that family is WAAAAY overcharging him. Also, the money is usually returned to the couple after they are married, to help them start their new life - not always, but it's more modern to look at the dowry as a symbolic gesture, not a down payment on a wife. Annie's family is asking for cost of wedding + gold + buffalo + 500k? DANG. Does her vagina do magic tricks or something?

Thank you for the information on Thailand.  It's so interesting to me to learn the different rituals and practices of other cultures.  It's also really interesting that you've actually been to their village.  I suspected Dave is being taken for a ride, but won't Annie be surprised when she gets to America and finds out that Dave is living in poverty.  I find him creepy, so I don't have any empathy for either of them.  They can each take advantage of the other til the cows come home!!

The rest of your post was a thing of beauty!!  You were spot on with everything, plus I LOVED your story about David and Pastor Tim.  Now I'll always picture them living happily ever after in San Fran!

[Sprockets]

8 minutes ago, Normades said:

I suspected Dave is being taken for a ride, but won't Annie be surprised when she gets to America and finds out that Dave is living in poverty. 

He has already told her some vague things along the lines of he's not rich, and her reaction is very telling.  He needs to tell her the truth.  

I wonder if her family's requested amount is only their opening move.  Negotiation is expected in most parts of the world.  Not that it matters, because he doesn't have a pot to piss in.  

[Granny58]

11 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

I want to like this a million times!!!

i remembered I bought this bracelet from an artist for my niece that had a Bible story in the beads,, because I knew she would like it.  The woman showed me a bracelet that maybe I could buy “when your niece takes her purity pledge”. To which I very respectfully answered (because the lady was nice) “I’d only be for that sort of thing if she decides she wants to do it AND they start to hold the boys to the same standards”.

Evangelical Christians didn’t invent purity culture. In many countries and in other faiths it is expected of both.  They don’t have Stay At Home Daughters waiting at home for a groom to knock on their door. (Google Sarah Maxwell for a journey down that rabbit hole). Women from these countries , they are often encouraged to go to university or learn a trade, if their families can afford it. No need to contemplate screwing around or be desperate, because marriage is part of the social contract. You will definitely get married, by hook or by crook.  If you haven’t met someone at school, then family will help you find a suitable mate. 

I actually do expect young men who proclaim to be Christian to have the same goal.  I NEVER thought it was just for the girls.  

[Sugar]

The sad thing is, the American men I know who came to Thailand to find brides are still seen as a status symbol - no matter how broke they are. The village that Annie is from is near the Lao border, and it's quite rural - farmers and laborers mostly. So, to a family who is (at a guess) living off of $200 USD a month (if that), whatever David has going on is likely a better prospect for Annie than what she will get at home. Dave is poor by Western standards, but someone in a small Thai village would consider him very wealthy. Also, consider his future prospects; he may be broke now, but he could probably find a minimum wage job and afford a decent apartment/small house in an inexpensive city/state. Which again, is still seen as an improvement for Annie.

I haven't been to Morocco, but spent some time in Egypt a few years back as a solo female traveler, and can confirm the modesty culture re: behavior in public. I went on a few dates with a local, and he also told me about PDA being a no-no, but it really wasn't as big a deal - more like "it's frowned upon, but not enforced". We still held hands and kissed occasionally. But I also wouldn't be surprised if Azan is embarrassed by Nicole. Having an American girlfriend is probably prestigious, but not when she looks and acts like Nicole.

[TwirlyGirly]

15 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I actually do expect young men who proclaim to be Christian to have the same goal.  I NEVER thought it was just for the girls.  

I have a problem with a higher value being placed on what anyone has between their legs and what they do with it (in terms of a consensual relationship), rather than what they have between their ears and what's in their heart and what they do with those things.

Unfortunately, Purity Culture disproportionally targets young women. I've not once read of any young men being told they're no better than "a used piece of gum stuck to the sole of a shoe" if they have sex before marriage.

[Sprockets]

18 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

I have a problem with a higher value being placed on what anyone has between their legs and what they do with it (in terms of a consensual relationship), rather than what they have between their ears and what's in their heart and what they do with those things.

I agree.  I find the whole concept of mandated sexual behavior linked to personal worth to be gruesome and even cringeworthy.  What century are we in?  

However, people believe what they believe.  The FamilyFundie have a right to believe in premarital virginity, but they sure go on about it at length.  I can't understand what they have to talk about, since the issue is not doing something.  

[AZChristian]

Random thought about the use of the lead on May . . . 

I've never been to Morocco, but have been to some parts of the UK where a stroller is just not practical.  While they have all the modern conveniences, part of the "charm" of some of the small towns (and even parts of London) is the cobblestone streets.  I mentioned to Mr. AZC the first time that we were in London that parts of it didn't seem very wheelchair-friendly.  Narrow sidewalks, often in disrepair - and always LOTS of people.

All I know of Morocco is what I've seen in the movies or on this show.  I wasn't looking closely, but were there ANY strollers on the sidewalks or in the marketplace they visited?  Given that a stroller was probably not practical, a lead is better than having a child run off in a city where even her limited (due to age) communication skills would be useless. 

I'm old fashioned; seeing kids running loose in a busy environment (like Walmart, LOL) really gets to me.  Between the dangers to the kids and their potential for running into people - it's just not a good idea, and the parents need to do everything they can to keep the kids close.  If the kids don't stay close (due to training) or obey voice commands, a lead is better than nothing.  I actually thought the Klein kids needed to be on leads when "The Little Couple" went to the UK recently.  Although they are old enough to know better (around 7 and 5), they were constantly either running away or going past ropes in historical sites.  At that age, they could be told, "You stay within arm's distance at all times, or you go on the lead."  

JMO.  YMMV.

[3girlsforus]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

I had hoped that David would show up with "dick" written on his face but so far he seems like a nice guy -- that is for someone who has a yen for "barely legal" girls.   So that frustrates me too.   

 

 

1 hour ago, Standard Staples said:

Not the fact that he's a 27 year old man that tracked down a 17 year old based on bikini pics on Instagram from 2,000 miles away? I wish them the best, but I see plenty of red flags.

 

This is just so creepy to me. I have no issues with an age gap in spouses, but this is just gross. He's 27 years old. Why is he looking for girls on the internet? Evelyn also has a "young" look even for 17/18 years old. I have girls this age and if a 27 year old guy tracked them down on the internet and wanted to date them, I'd meet him at the door with a shotgun. I wouldn't ask my pastor to let him live there. 

[IAmJ]

14 hours ago, Sugar said:

Evelyn looks like a bankrupt man's Megan Draper.
 

YES, this is the TV character reference I've been trying to think of! Also, "bankrupt man's" is *Italian chef kissing fingers* beautiful.

[balisticnikki]

15 hours ago, Sugar said:

Elizabeth/Libby fascinates me, because she is like Jerry's date from Seinfeld who would look pretty in some lighting, but then like a swamp ghoul in other shots.

So funny bc someone upthread made that exact same reference with regard to Jenny! ha
 

15 hours ago, Sugar said:

I really don't understand why Azan picked Nicole. He's not a bad looking guy, and his non-threatening blandness would appeal to a lot of women. Surely he had other options? I too am wondering why he would pick an overweight, unattractive, immature, single mother who clearly doesn't have a cent to her name.

Low hanging fruit, is my guess.

11 hours ago, millennium said:

 I'm surprised his glasses don't have a fake nose and mustache attached to them.

This is so funny!

[balisticnikki]

16 hours ago, merylinkid said:

As for Molly, Luis will behave himself.   He will be the model husband.   Right up until he gets the conditions on his green card removed.   Then he will split.  Get his citizenship and bring his real wife over.   Because he is totally married back home.   That will be a fun K1.

 I was really mad that when Family Molly picked Luis up from the airport, he called little Rayleigh (whatever the little girl's name is) "Olivia." And Molly had to tell him Olivia was the other one. Like damn, you don't even know the kids' names???

[tincansailor981]

1 hour ago, balisticnikki said:

Low hanging fruit, is my guess.

With matching low hanging breasts

[gonecrackers]

I can't recall if Evelyn's parents had actually been encouraging her to be married off at this age, or if it was strictly her idea & they're supporting it.  At the very least it's not being discouraged; but does discouraging someone her age from making what seems like a mistake to those with more experience ever work? The parents were married young & it worked so they probably don't see it that way. But she seems like she wants what she wants & isn't easily deterred from that, if at all, whatever it may be.

On strollers - I love them. They're the awesome & I used them for quite a while (but I'm a special needs mom so they were an extra awesome for me LOL). I wouldn't care if it was crowded - all the better to use one for safety reasons. The other reason is napping. Kiddo gets cranky she has a place to lay her head for a while & adults get to relax, walk around & actually talk etc. I can't say enough wonderful about strollers, but that's me.

I was personally shocked that Azan wants anything to do with Nicole after her behavior last time. I believe as someone else has said here that his family is pushing this; he seems completely disinterested & I feel for him a bit. She's awful in every way. I think in the previews she gets physical with him again. To me though he looks like a fool for not dropping her flat & putting up with this crap.

Molly & Luis look ridiculous together, & Molly sounds ridiculous. She needs to grow up. I hope she'll be ready for when he leaves, because I personally feel that's what will happen.

[Gigglepuff]

2 hours ago, AZChristian said:

All I know of Morocco is what I've seen in the movies or on this show.  I wasn't looking closely, but were there ANY strollers on the sidewalks or in the marketplace they visited?  Given that a stroller was probably not practical, a lead is better than having a child run off in a city where even her limited (due to age) communication skills would be useless. 

I've been to Morocco twice and I definitely saw people pushing strollers around in certain parts of cities there. Most of the big cities there have two distinct districts, the "old" (medina) and the "new" (ville nouvelle). The new parts are very reminiscent of European cities and a stroller would be suitable in most of those areas. The medinas are a maze of narrow, twisty streets and and it would be just about impossible to navigate them with a stroller, a lead would definitely be more useful there.  

[tincansailor981]

3 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

Molly & Luis look ridiculous together, & Molly sounds ridiculous. She needs to grow up. I hope she'll be ready for when he leaves, because I personally feel that's what will happen.

That voice!  It's worse than nails on a chalkboard.  I can only imagine how the walls and windows must rattle during "late night activities."    I feel sorry for the poor kids who have to listen to that

[Mr. Miner]

7 minutes ago, tincansailor981 said:

That voice!  It's worse than nails on a chalkboard.  I can only imagine how the walls and windows must rattle during "late night activities."    I feel sorry for the poor kids who have to listen to that

Yikes! that's horrifying.

[shockermolar]

Quote

On strollers - I love them. They're the awesome & I used them for quite a while (but I'm a special needs mom so they were an extra awesome for me LOL). I wouldn't care if it was crowded - all the better to use one for safety reasons. The other reason is napping. Kiddo gets cranky she has a place to lay her head for a while & adults get to relax, walk around & actually talk etc. I can't say enough wonderful about strollers, but that's me.

I join in your stroller love. Not only are they convenient for keeping little ones stationary but they are great for napping and carrying items when you go someplace, like say a freaking MARKET. In any case, I don't get the whole leash thing and I will never get the leash thing. I also have no idea why they were dragging May between them by her tiny little arms. We watch 90DF as a family in my house and my 19yo son said "This is stupid. Why is he not carrying her on his shoulders like a normal dad?" To which the 16 yo son replied, "He's not her dad. Why should he have to." 

The both of them though are enamored of Evelyn - the 19 yo said that he's better looking than David and also closer in age to her so could/should be on the show with her. I had to point out that as he's a US citizen and never been out of the country it kind of negates the premise of the show.   They are also both of the opinion that Luis is sure as shit going to throw over Molly to chase Olivia, but that Olivia is too smart for that.

It's fun watching trash tv with your kids. 
 

[Arwen Evenstar]

4 hours ago, Normades said:

The rest of your post was a thing of beauty!!  You were spot on with everything, plus I LOVED your story about David and Pastor Tim.  Now I'll always picture them living happily ever after in San Fran!

Indeed it was! And French bulldogs make everything a little bit better.

[biakbiak]

5 minutes ago, shockermolar said:

Not only are they convenient for keeping little ones stationary but they are great for napping and carrying items when you go someplace, like say a freaking MARKET

If this is about Azan saying he was taking them to the market, he meant the souk which is not in anyway similar to a market in the US. It's narrow sometimes windy aisles with tons of people, cobblestones, uneven tiles etc. I have spent time in Morocco and never seen a stroller in the souk. 

[Ivanova]

25 minutes ago, shockermolar said:

The both of them though are enamored of Evelyn

Just curious, what is their opinion about her personality?

[Granny58]

4 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

I have a problem with a higher value being placed on what anyone has between their legs and what they do with it (in terms of a consensual relationship), rather than what they have between their ears and what's in their heart and what they do with those things.

Unfortunately, Purity Culture disproportionally targets young women. I've not once read of any young men being told they're no better than "a used piece of gum stuck to the sole of a shoe" if they have sex before marriage.

I don't want to drift too far afield on this topic due to regulations, so I hope this posts.  As I understand it, what you do with what's between your legs is directly related to what's in your heart and mind.   

 

As for the quote, wow...have you actually heard that????

[gonecrackers]

Another thought on May - I also used slings with babies, but backpacks can work with the older ones & toddlers, at least as long as the adult can deal.

Obviously Azan would have to be the one to backpack her, unless they make an extra wide...

[balisticnikki]

3 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I can't recall if Evelyn's parents had actually been encouraging her to be married off at this age, or if it was strictly her idea & they're supporting it. 

Evelyn's mother said she and Evelyn's father had "been praying about a husband for Evelyn for some time." Pretty sure she didn't say "praying for a husband" but "praying about a husband."

3 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Molly & Luis look ridiculous together, & Molly sounds ridiculous. She needs to grow up. I hope she'll be ready for when he leaves, because I personally feel that's what will happen.

I found it quite gross when he said how glad he was now that he could "kiss her," "hug her," "smell her" "and do something even more special" with her.

Edited October 25, 2017 by balisticnikki

[Schadenfreulein]

18 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

Here's an adorable example ;-)

Sweet mother of babbling God...

[Arwen Evenstar]

It just hurts to look at that. Ouch!!

[TwirlyGirly]

1 hour ago, Granny58 said:

I don't want to drift too far afield on this topic due to regulations, so I hope this posts.  As I understand it, what you do with what's between your legs is directly related to what's in your heart and mind.   

 

As for the quote, wow...have you actually heard that????

Yes. And no. Meaning, I looked up the specific references and it appears I conflated two of them: "a piece of gum that's been chewed" and "an old, worn-out shoe" - and I apologize for that.

Elizabeth Smart has said one of the reasons she did not try to get away from her abductor/rapist is because she was told by her abstinence-only teacher:

"Imagine you're a stick of gum and when you engage in sex, that's like being chewed. And then if you do that lots of times, you're going to be become an old piece of gum and who's going to want you after that".

http://fox13now.com/2013/05/06/elizabeth-smart-i-felt-like-a-chewed-up-piece-of-gum/

These references are common to many abstinence-only programs, and a big part of purity culture in general.

I can't imagine how damaging it must be to young people to be taught if they are no longer virgins, they're only suited for the trash, can you?

Some resources:

http://noshamemovement.com/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/the-purity-culture

http://dani-kelley.com/purity-culture-stories-part-01/

http://dani-kelley.com/purity-culture-stories-part-02/

Want more? Just Google "purity culture" "stories"

[Granny58]

@TwirlyGirly  Thanks for your post.  While I can understand the attitude of "you are worth MUCH more than being somebody's sex playmate," that is the opposite of "you're worthless if you're used."  Yikes.  That is dreadful.  

53 minutes ago, Schadenfreulein said:

Sweet mother of babbling God...

I'm going out on a limb here and assuming.....neurosurgeon?

[Normades]

18 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Elizabeth Smart has said one of the reasons she did not try to get away from her abductor/rapist is because she was told by her abstinence-only teacher:

"Imagine you're a stick of gum and when you engage in sex, that's like being chewed. And then if you do that lots of times, you're going to be become an old piece of gum and who's going to want you after that".

WOW!!  That's just sickening!  This is one of the many reasons I have issues with making virginity such a big issue.  It shouldn't define someone's worth.

If I didn't feel bad enough for Elizabeth Smart, I feel much worse for her now!

[Sprockets]

32 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

I can't imagine how damaging it must be to young people to be taught if they are no longer virgins, they're only suited for the trash, can you?

 

That type of teaching is disgusting.  It borders on abuse, IMO.  

13 minutes ago, Normades said:

If I didn't feel bad enough for Elizabeth Smart, I feel much worse for her now!

I agree.  And consider this: if that ridiculous, degrading attitude is shared by her family, friends and community, they still feel that way about her, and they always will.  She probably still feels she is worthless.  

1 hour ago, Schadenfreulein said:

Sweet mother of babbling God...

He is showing us how much he hates himself.  

[shockermolar]

3 hours ago, Ivanova said:

Just curious, what is their opinion about her personality?

So this is an interesting perspective from really people in her own age group - they don't think she acts entitled or spoiled. For example, the interaction with the friend? They took the viewpoint that the friend was just jealous - not of David or their relationship, but more that having a boyfriend/fiancee/husband would make her a third wheel. They don't see all her little side-glances and attempts at being cute as odd. It's like it's normalized behavior to them so they don't see it. They do mock her unmercifully for her singing. They think David looks old. They don't think his jean joggers are stupid because they are joggers, they think they are stupid because they are jeans. And they LOVE her dad. I think my 19yo said something like he would marry Evelyn just to hang out with her dad.  They think the virginity thing is a crock for both Evelyn and David. Oh, and my 19yo noticed something that I didn't - Evelyn is ALWAYS in selfie mode. She lifts her chin and holds out her upper chest/jaw. It's hard to explain but you'll know what I mean when you see it. He said that it's for the cameras "gotta look good for the cameras" and also that it's probably why she was such a shitty driver somehow.

[shockermolar]

3 hours ago, biakbiak said:

If this is about Azan saying he was taking them to the market, he meant the souk which is not in anyway similar to a market in the US. It's narrow sometimes windy aisles with tons of people, cobblestones, uneven tiles etc. I have spent time in Morocco and never seen a stroller in the souk. 

I understood what Azan meant by it - pulga, flea, souk, bazaar, fair, etc - whatever local terminology is used. The lack of stroller may simply be that Moroccans don't use stroller/they aren't an averagely available commodity or whatever. But the right stroller is usable in that situation - I took my kids in stroller to tiny marquetas in Mexico, hikes in the Texas Hill Country, on wetland tours, on boats, hell once I took a stroller into a cave tour. Now granted, my stroller was the functional equivalent of an off-road bike - light aluminum frame, inflatable tires with a pump, narrow body and touch to fold - but what I'm saying is that there are options. I wouldn't expect Nicole to actually have THOUGHT about, much less applied options, but they exist.

[biakbiak]

7 minutes ago, shockermolar said:

The lack of stroller may simply be that Moroccans don't use stroller/they aren't an averagely available commodity or whatever.

No there are strollers in other areas. Glad it works for you but it's not everyone's choice.

When I was Mae's age I would unbuckle the harness and jump out so my parents got rid of it. Every child and family finds what works for them. When she had on the tether Mae seemed entirely comfortable so clearly it doesn't bother her, Azan should get over himself and Nicole should have put her foot down as her mother.

[Sprockets]

22 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

When she had on the tether Mae seemed entirely comfortable so clearly it doesn't bother her, Azan should get over himself and Nicole should have put her foot down as her mother.

Excellent points.  Also, if May is not used to a stroller (and why would she be? does anyone believe Nicole walks her?) the outcome of putting her into one now would probably be dismal.  

[Pepper Mostly]

9 hours ago, Sugar said:

I haven't been to Morocco, but spent some time in Egypt a few years back as a solo female traveler, and can confirm the modesty culture re: behavior in public. I went on a few dates with a local, and he also told me about PDA being a no-no, but it really wasn't as big a deal - more like "it's frowned upon, but not enforced". We still held hands and kissed occasionally. But I also wouldn't be surprised if Azan is embarrassed by Nicole. Having an American girlfriend is probably prestigious, but not when she looks and acts like Nicole.

Nicole would not be happy with holding hands. She is always mauling poor Azan. The woman has no sense of decorum or boundaries. 

 

41 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

When I was Mae's age I would unbuckle the harness and jump out so my parents got rid of it. Every child and family finds what works for them. When she had on the tether Mae seemed entirely comfortable so clearly it doesn't bother her,

Bingo. Its all very well to say put her in a stroller, but some kids just won't stay in them once they can walk, they don't want to be confined. But their big mistake was taking an overwhelmed, probably exhausted, jet lagged child to an overstimulating environment and expecting her to be a little angel. 

[bethster2000]

10 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Cultural differences aside, the laws alone are different there.  There are things we take for granted here as far as what is socially acceptable and what is even legal, that aren't so in other countries. I remember being in one country a few years ago and getting fined for taking pictures of a police station. In 1999, I was actually escorted to a police station and threatened with arrest for taking pictures of landline removals without getting written permission-and it wasn't like I broke into the site. I was on a bus, taking pictures.

I was almost arrested in Mexico for taking a beautiful seashell from a beach where we were snorkeling.  It's not something that I would usually do, but it was rather large and lovely, and I wanted it as a keepsake.  I took it from the beach, dried it off, and put it in my beach bag.  On the boat ride home, the captain approached me and said that he would give me one chance to throw the shell back overboard, or he would have the authorites waiting for our boat.  GULP.  I complied and then burst into tears.  I had no idea!

[mamadrama]

2 minutes ago, bethster2000 said:

I was almost arrested in Mexico for taking a beautiful seashell from a beach where we were snorkeling.  It's not something that I would usually do, but it was rather large and lovely, and I wanted it as a keepsake.  I took it from the beach, dried it off, and put it in my beach bag.  On the boat ride home, the captain approached me and said that he would give me one chance to throw the shell back overboard, or he would have the authorites waiting for our boat.  GULP.  I complied and then burst into tears.  I had no idea!

It's weird, isn't it? And yes, I cried as well. 

We have a vacation house on an island here in the US. The island also serves as a park. It's illegal to do certain things on the beach, like climb on the dunes and take certain things, that is perfectly fine on other beaches. We also have tons of sea turtle nests. Not only is it illegal to disturb them, but you're not allowed to touch or hold them either. Two years ago, a baby hatched. My kids and I found it on the beach. One of its little flippers was ripped so it just kept going around and around in circles in the sand. Birds were after it. I made a little nest of sand for it and stayed with it until the authorities got there. I DID pick it up to shelter it from a seagull at one point-of course, that was right when the authorities got there. They overlooked it.*

I still agree, though, that Azan is probably embarrassed by Nicole. I get secondhand emabrassment for him. 

*Funny story...by the time they got there, we had about 25 people surrounding us, all taken in by the mini adventure. It wasn't until after everyone left, and we were alone, that my husband told me that my bikini top had slid down a little. For the past half hour, I'd apparently been showing everyone most of my nipple. I mean, people were videotaping that shit. He'd tried to pull it up a few times, I'd wondered what he was doing, but it kept falling down. 

[mamadrama]

Azan DOES need to get over the embarrassment of the leash, if that's what May needs to stay safe. I think some of that is just lack of experience as a parent. Once you've been one for awhile, you start getting over some of that. I mean, in the beginning I used to cringe whenever my kids would have a meltdown. My face would redden, I'd get flustered, and I'd even give into my son on occasion because I couldn't stand people LOOKING at us. Now, 3 kids and 11 years later, I roll with that shit and move right along. I've danced in public, broken into song, disciplined in front of a crowd, raised my voice, unintentionally exposed body parts, etc. You learn to get over a lot of things that would have embarrassed the hell out of you in the past. 

[3girlsforus]

6 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

 

I still agree, though, that Azan is probably embarrassed by Nicole. I get secondhand emabrassment for him. 

 

I get what you are saying and I agree that Azan is embarrassed by Nicole, but I keep coming back to the fact that he doesn’t have to do this. He can put her back on a plane and say ‘thanks but no thanks’. Yet he doesn’t. So either we are reading disgust on his part that isn’t really there, or he is doing this to be on a TV show or for a green card or some other similar reason. In which case, he’s doing it to himself. 

[Gigglepuff]

2 hours ago, shockermolar said:

I understood what Azan meant by it - pulga, flea, souk, bazaar, fair, etc - whatever local terminology is used. The lack of stroller may simply be that Moroccans don't use stroller/they aren't an averagely available commodity or whatever.

Strollers are available there, they just aren't used in the old areas. Seriously, you'll see donkeys pulling carts, the streets are crazily crowded, there are stalls and bins of produce and spices all over the place that you'd constantly have to dodge; it's like you've traveled back in time. I didn't have kids with me when I was there, but from what I remember the tourists with small kids either held their hand or had them in a backpack. May looks like a handful and the crowded streets of a medina in Morocco are the last place Nicole should be testing her parenting skills. 

 

As far as Molly and Olivia goes. Poor Olivia has probably had to be her mother's emotional support system every time one of Molly's relationship goes south. Poor girl. She's had to be the adult and instead of Molly consoling her over teen heartbreak and first loves, Olivia has to pick up the pieces for her mother. It really seems like role reversal to me. 

 

Evelyn is smug and annoying. Can't stand that girl. I don't have much to say other than that. 

[Sprockets]

36 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

So either we are reading disgust on his part that isn’t really there, or he is doing this to be on a TV show or for a green card or some other similar reason. In which case, he’s doing it to himself. 

I think Azan is a very private and self-contained person.  I think he finds Nicole irritating and exasperating, but who wouldn't?  But I do not get any sense of how he feels about Nicole, because he is not showing his emotions.  He could be madly in love with her.  

[bethster2000]

2 hours ago, mamadrama said:

For the past half hour, I'd apparently been showing everyone most of my nipple. I mean, people were videotaping that shit. He'd tried to pull it up a few times, I'd wondered what he was doing, but it kept falling down. 

Wildlife preservation has never been so SEX-AY!!!!!

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 hours ago, Sprockets said:

I think Azan is a very private and self-contained person.  I think he finds Nicole irritating and exasperating, but who wouldn't?  But I do not get any sense of how he feels about Nicole, because he is not showing his emotions.  He could be madly in love with her.  

Well, like they say, there’s a lid for every pot.  Or there’s a top for every tagine, if you will. I guess we’ll never know.