S07.E01: Hyperion Heights

[Camera One]

This episode was quite bland, and frankly, none of the relationships we're supposed to care about worked.  Hearing exactly the same music (eg. Cinderella's ball) highlighted how utterly lacking this episode was in wonder or magic.

The writing for this show has never been great, but the original cast was able to rise above it.  Here, the writing and the acting combined to make the scenes clunky and hard to buy into.  

Let's start with Henry and Lucy when she barged in.  They tried to copy the scenario in the pilot, but this one failed big-time.  Emma knew she had a son and that knowledge is what made Henry's visit so emotionally monumental for the character.  Adult Henry doesn't have any memory of conceiving Lucy.  In this episode, Lucy also jumped right in and told Henry about Hyperion Heights being a Curse, and telling him that he could meet his "true love and break the Curse".  It was much more natural in the pilot since Henry didn't pile all that on Emma in her apartment.  There isn't an information dump all at once.  In the pilot, it was easy to feel genuinely worried/sad for Henry since he clearly had a sad childhood.  Whereas here, Lucy was already living with her mom.  My feelings about Lucy did not change from the Season 6 finale, and I really didn't feel the chemistry with Adult Henry.

Then, we have that scene with Jacinda quitting her job, which was a really idiotic move, especially considering she was supposed to be desperate to have custody of her daughter.  Why would she risk losing custody just to satisfy her pride?  Her "friendship" scene with Tiana felt very stilted and sitcom-y.  The banter was forced... A&E compared this to Red and Snow, but I don't feel the bond yet.  I didn't buy that Cinderella was worried about losing her job.  I actually didn't mind her as Maya on "Heroes", but here, the acting didn't sell the character, which was a huge problem considering how key Cinderella is.  Meanwhile, she was so unlikeable in the flashback when she was playing Henry with the motorcycle.  

Henry and Cinderella/Jacinda felt very rushed.  It was pretty ridiculous to me that they would be flirting so heavily while Roni watched at the bar.  The lines were just so cheesy and I didn't buy they made a connection so quickly.  In the flashback, Henry fell hard, and followed her to the ball and insisted they dance and asked her to run away with him?  This after meeting her for 5 minutes ending with her punching his face?  How the hell did he get to the palace before her, anyway?  

Both in flashback and present-day, they utterly failed to sell the romance, yet they already "separated" the coupling by the end with Henry's jerk move of telling Victoria about Jacinda's secret island dream, just to get back his car when there was no reason why helping Victoria would speed up the search.

I also found Lady Tremaine/Victoria quite weak.  She didn't have the delicious villain vibe... it felt like she was stumbling over her bold and audacious lines.  I hated the fairy godmother murder as much as I did last time.  The scene straight from The Devil Wears Prada was so cringeworthy.  It wasn't a homage... it felt like an pale rip-off, complete with the Anne Hathaway look-alike.  As others have said, they didn't sell that Victoria was that bad.  If she was, why would she let Jacinda have custody of Lucy?  They should have had Jacinda washing toilets at Victoria's mansion, and Victoria threatening to call child services if she ventured out.  They had Tremaine murder two people, yet they will still try to redeem her and we're supposed to forget about this.  The Evil Queen managed to be intimidating without directly murdering anyone herself in the pilot, and we could almost feel a bit sorry for Regina, because her concern for Henry really did seem to be real because she raised him.  

Tremaine's plot to have Cinders kill the prince for her made zero sense.  So she recently told her that the prince was involved in Cinder's father's death?  No one saw her stab the prince from behind?  What a clever way of making sure Cinders goes on the run, just like Bandit Snow.

I have to go meh on Alice being Weaver's lackey in the present-day.  The only thing I liked about her was her line about not wanting to be called "Alice in Wonderland".  To me, that was practically the only clever line in the entire hour.   I don't know if we're supposed to side with her and want Henry to stop interfering with Cinderella's story, because I did NOT cheer as we were supposed to when Henry let the portal close and stayed behind in this realm.

We really needed to see more of these characters' lives in Seattle before they collided.  Everything needed to be more gradual.  We needed to see Henry go to the cemetery for his fake memory wife and kid in order to feel for him.  We needed to see how important the bar was to Roni, rather than hearing her saying voice-over that "This is my bar, my home, my life".  We needed to see how unhappy Lucy or Jacinda was, and how much Victoria was controlling their lives.  I mean, what was keeping Lucy from finding Henry earlier?  Show, don't tell.  For all we know, the Curse was enacted the day before and they had just experienced a single day of Cursed life.

Like KingofHearts, that line - "No story is perfect.  It just needs to start.", really jumped out at me since it seems to be an excuse for this sorry episode.  At the end of the day, I didn't feel hope (and there will never be hope for the dead fairygodmother).  I really couldn't get myself to care about any of the characters' fates.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Camera One

[Worsel]

I didn't think this was terrible.  Clearly a reboot/re-tread, but I'm ok with that if the writing and acting are good.  Unfortunately, the romance between Cinderella and Henry seemed to occur too quickly and I didn't feel they had much chemistry.  I also didn't like Cinderella punching Henry and stealing his motorcycle; he was already willing to transport her so it made no sense, and furthermore I have never understood why a woman who behaves like a b*tch to a man equals an instant attraction/romance; I have seen this played out in multiple stories and I hate it every time.  I really enjoyed seeing Rumple/Weaver calmly torturing someone by near drowning - glad to see there is still some Dark One left after last season's finale.  I am interested in learning more about Alice and her relationship to Rumple.  And I am with others who want to see a spin off with Hook and Rumple as detective buddies - good cop/bad cop almost always works well.

[Arnella]

10 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

* I really hate Murderella. She has zero likable qualities. She's vindictive, irresponsible, and prideful. Only on this show would Cinderella be such a deadbeat.

I totally agree.  I found myself agreeing with Belfry about her being too irresponsible to raise the child.  I think CPS might also agree the unemployed, day drinking woman with the temper not being able to handle the girl who roams the countryside in the middle of the night accosting strange men looking for her father.

I hate the character and the actress is crap.

That being said, the story didn't irk me as much as I thought and they still rock the fashion porn so I will keep stopping by for awhile.

[OnceUponAJen]

15 minutes ago, Worsel said:

 really enjoyed seeing Rumple/Weaver calmly torturing someone by near drowning - glad to see there is still some Dark One left after last season's finale.  I am interested in learning more about Alice and her relationship to Rumple.  And I am with others who want to see a spin off with Hook and Rumple as detective buddies - good cop/bad cop almost always works well.

I can see Rumple slowly corrupting Detective Eagle Scout, which could be fun.  We know he's corruptible. 

I also think the main romance was rushed. The pacing is still a problem for me.  We were short on character focus, which is not surprising given their history of sacrificing character moments in order to get to the next plot point.

Edited October 7, 2017 by OnceUponAJen

[darkestboy]

It wasn't bad but it wasn't really gripping either.

I think the best way of looking at this season is to treat it like a spin-off because that's exactly what it felt like watching, otherwise the absences of Emma, Snow, Charming and even Belle and Zelena to a lesser extent will weigh it down.

I'm not sold on Victoria/Tremaine as a villain yet and I'm not big on the Henry/Jacinda (Cinderella) romance just yet either. Jacinda's a bit of a reckless character and grown up Henry is still a bit bland at times as a character. Lucy's okay so far.

I did like Regina, Hook and Rumple in their guises or should I just call them Roni, Rogers and Weaver for now.

There's potential with Alice and Drizella and I did like the room sharing with Jacinda and Tiana as well, so there's that but aside from doing some rethreading of the first ever episode, it wasn't great and it wasn't terrible, 6/10

[PixiePaws1]

Didn't like it...after s1 i loathed Henry and an older bigger version just gave me more of him to dislike :o (( 

Murderella irritated the crap out of me. Woman doesn't have an ounce of charm or graciousness.

Hmm..maybe those 2 deserve each other..if only they could take their epicly boring selves offscreen.

I  can't look at Regina in any guise and not think 'narcissistic mass murdering whinging psycho' who absolutely did not deserve any form of happy ending. She ain't suffering nearly enough now that she's on the other side of a curse.

Rogers is a modern version of Deckhand!Hook...so sweet. I dread what the Evil Weaver will do to him.

Boring as this was ..it has helped me with my OUaT separation anxiety. I rather think I will finally be done after next week.

[daxx]

My Facebook friend, definition of general audience posted this when I mentioned I watched it but missed Emma, Snow, Charming and Storybrooke.  

"It's so weird. I give them one season of this and they will cancel."

then she stated she's ten minutes in and probably won't finish it.

I watched the whole thing and I'll watch next week. But the rest, I'll DVR and decide later I suppose. I don't have anything else on Friday night so might watch anyway.

[RadioGirl27]

The episode has left me completely cold.  I don't hate it but I don't like it either, it was just a big pile of meh (still, it's better than some many episodes from last season). I'm only mildly interested in Rumple and what he knows about what is going on. But the rest, not so much. I hate Cinderella, I don't like the actress or the character. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to hate Roni even more (if I keep watching).

Something sad I just realised: I didn't miss any of the missing characters, not even Emma.

1 hour ago, OnceUponAJen said:

I can see Rumple slowly corrupting Detective Eagle Scout, which could be fun.  We know he's corruptible. 

Ugh, I hate this idea, but I'm 100% sure this is what is going to happen, A&E like to throw Hook under the bus.

Edited October 7, 2017 by RadioGirl27

[gik910]

Is there an unwritten rule on tv that means anytime they show someone sweeping they have to be doing an absolute crap job at it? 

So I didn't hate it, hate it...but I can't say I liked it.  Jacinda/Cinderella is not someone I empathize with at all yet and Henry is still a dolt.  Being set in the real world makes it really hard to hand wave.  Victoria is a developer - she would not handle the actual purchase of a property it would go through lawyers, the police being that blatant about being in her pocket is highly questionable because there are real people in that neighborhood who would have not problem speaking to the people they vote for, the whole custody thing is insane (you can't just say she is coming to live with me- that is not how that works). Overall it is just lacking - it is missing that magic the original pilot had.

Having said that I am actually interested to see what they do with Officer Rodgers, Weaver, and how Alice fits in.

I did crack up at the frog legs comment from Tianna.

[Rumsy4]

41 minutes ago, gik910 said:

Victoria is a developer - she would not handle the actual purchase of a property it would go through lawyers, the police being that blatant about being in her pocket is highly questionable because there are real people in that neighborhood who would have not problem speaking to the people they vote for, the whole custody thing is insane (you can't just say she is coming to live with me- that is not how that works).

So, the worldbuilding is even worse than usual for this Show. Good to know. The writers can't set the plot in the real world, and still pretend that rules and regulations are arbitrary like in Storybrooke. From reading all the comments here, the majority reaction seems to be: meh. I did catch some flailing on tumblr, but my reactions tend to side with this forum for the most part. I didn't watch this episode. I will watch the next episode for sure, but beyond that, it's doubtful. 

7 hours ago, Camera One said:

At the end of the day, I didn't feel hope

But...but...this Show is all about Hope. It gets Dark but never Bleak. ;-)

4 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

And I'm not going to enjoy seeing Rumple get to torture Killian again. So that better not be where this is going.

The writers seem to have a nice-guy Rumple complex. Neither they, nor Rumple, have ever forgiven either Milah or Killian for Milah running of with the latter. The always tend to show Rumple beating down on Killian in the present.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Rumsy4

[CCTC]

11 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think the other thing it was missing was atmosphere.  The pilot of this show played beats of the fairy tale in StoryBrooke despite all the cursed memories. 

The did not utilize StoryBrooke like they should have in later seasons, but it did have a special feel to it in the first season that added to the show.  It did not live up to its potential, but with its smaller town wooded setting, it really could have been a quirky place - a more  PG rated, fairy tail influenced version of Twins Peaks.  Hyperion Heights seems really generic.

I also felt the fairy tale realm did not have the same magic.  While the enchanted forest was a lot of cheesy CGI shots, at least in the earlier years, you did feel it was this mysterious magical other world.  (the high shot of Josh riding on horseback probably was more effective in creating this than Henry riding through a narrow trail in the woods on his motorcycle).  Snow, Charming, Regina, Rumpelstiltskin, George, King Henry etc. all seemed like they were these fairy tale characters, whereas it felt like in this episode it was modern day people playing dress-up in the middle of the woods and in a banquet room in some old mansion.  It kind of makes sense for Henry who is not part of that world. 

I did like the scene where Alice told  him it was not his story.  I wonder if they would actually go to the place where a lot of the chaos shown in the season 6 finale was caused by Henry arrogantly entering worlds in which he had no place being and he is the one that caused things to go topsy turvey with his need to be called a hero.  Of course, I also wonder if they are even going to revisit those scenes where the fairy tale land seemed to be torn up by war or some sort of strife, since I don't know if I have heard any mention of it in any interviews (although I have largely skimmed the interviews.)

I should not just post negatively, because I did not hate it, and the reboot probably gives the show to have a more cohesive season than it has in awhile, but it did seem like a pale imitation of what has come before.  

I will probably watch next week to see what did become of Emma (and hopefully her parents), skip the episode of Belle and Rumple and the latest round of how to love an abusive partner, and after that catch if I am home, but not make a huge effort to watch if when not convenient.

Edited October 7, 2017 by CCTC

[KingOfHearts]

Was it just the lighting, or was Henry wearing two different shirts in his scene where he meets Lucy? His top looks green at the door, then immediately in the next shot it's a light gray.

[daxx]

I love how Regina is this independent bar owner that stands up to the evil developer but Hook is again put at the mercy of evil Rumple. Ugh. Let's not let our character bias show again boys. 

Was that the longest, most boring monologue ever that Roni gave? 

[Leia1979]

Well, I watched it, which is more than I was expecting to do. None of my other shows I watch by myself on Saturday morning are back yet.

I actually dislike adult Henry more than original Henry. And it feel like cheating to have an alternate Cinderella and alternate Alice. Maybe this is OUAT's mirror-verse? For the briefest moment when she was first shown, I thought Alice was Emma (blonde hair and what looked like a red jacket). Then I thought maybe she was Emma and Hook's teenage daughter. 

And now a small rant about OUAT's fake Seattle. Hyperion Heights is apparently in the Fremont neighborhood (where the troll is). I will give them points for the troll being under the correct bridge, and the location is amusing because Fremont long had signs proclaiming it the "center of the universe," which is definitely in-line with this show's attitude. Also the police car was the right color. But Seattle's neighborhoods are not self-governing. Gabrielle Anwar should not have any pull with the Seattle PD. Also, I know people love to use the monorail as an establishing shot, but no one but tourists takes the monorail because it doesn't go anywhere but two stops (a downtown mall and the Space Needle). It definitely doesn't cross the ship canal into where Hyperion Heights is supposed to be. iZombie does this much better. I get wanting a new location, but it's easier to suspend disbelief over the baddie's level of control if it's a tiny town.

Anyway, rant over. But that leads to a question of the curse's borders--is Jacinda limited to the Seattle city limits (as evidenced by that weird totally-not-the-Bainbridge-ferry)? Or is she stuck within Hyperion Heights?

I will watch at least one more episode just to see Emma. And I thought officer Hook should have had an American accent just for fun.

[Last Time Lord]

First of all, this show is gorgeous in 4K. Love my new TV. 

I enjoyed this. I’ve always liked the Henry character, and I liked seeing him in a much more active role, especially in the flashbacks. 

I’m not completely sold on the villain, then again, I’ve never though Ladt Tremain was as awe inspiring a villain as Disney seems to think. Would have much rather someone like Mother Gothel, or Yzma. 

Here’s a rare sentence from me: I’m interested in the Hook/Rumple storyline. 

So, yeah. I liked it overall, am interested enough to see where it goes from here. 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Hyperion Heights is apparently in the Fremont neighborhood (where the troll is).

Whoa! I didn't know the troll was an actual thing, VW Beetle and all. There was speculation Emma was trapped in it, but with this revelation, it's more likely just a nod.

Quote

From reading all the comments here, the majority reaction seems to be: meh. 

I was about to say the same thing. It's not the worst hour this show has ever put out, but it's obviously running on fumes.

Quote

Was that the longest, most boring monologue ever that Roni gave?

Right up there with Snow's in 4x13.

Edited October 7, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[tessaray]

Thinking about it, I really missed Emma (or an Emma substitute). This show needs a semi-normal, grounded character for contrast with the EF/SB/HH, magical fairy tale aspect.  Without that, it feels so disjointed, with no center or heart.  

Maybe Hook will end up filling that spot because Henry, Cinderella and Lucy weren't doing it for me.  I'll keep watching for a few more weeks to see how it goes.   

[iMonrey]

I don't really understand the point of re-establishing characters like Cinderella and Alice when they already covered those characters in the original show. Now there are supposed to be different "versions" of all these characters depending on what "realm" you're in? Oy - they're entering some serious Sliders territory now with these multiples, and I don't really think this kind of show can handle that. I mean if they really made alternative dimensions and alternative realities a plot point it might be interesting but instead they're just sort of using that as an excuse to recast and reboot, and it doesn't really wash. We've been here before - don't try to sell me a new version, it just makes me remember the original version.

I don't know how Dania Ramiriz keeps getting these big roles, she's annoying at best. I can see why they cast the guy playing new Henry because he does bear a passing resemblance to young Henry but he's not terribly compelling as an actor either. So if Henry and Cinderella are supposed to carry this show that's not very promising. And I'm not familiar with the actress playing the Stepmother but I wasn't impressed with her either. I also realized once Gold showed up I'm sick of him. I think I would have liked the show better if they had written him off along with all the rest of them.

Not sure how long I'll stick around for this mess. Seems pretty pointless - no wonder they moved it to Friday.

[Camera One]

Quote

First of all, this show is gorgeous in 4K

Visually, the scene with Cinderella's huge dress on a patch of grass with blue flowers was very pretty.  

 

On 10/7/2017 at 6:43 AM, gik910 said:

Being set in the real world makes it really hard to hand wave.  Victoria is a developer - she would not handle the actual purchase of a property it would go through lawyers, the police being that blatant about being in her pocket is highly questionable because there are real people in that neighborhood who would have not problem speaking to the people they vote for, the whole custody thing is insane (you can't just say she is coming to live with me- that is not how that works). 

Yes, that scene with Victoria personally getting Roni to sign the papers at midnight was quizzical.  I also didn't get how Victoria would know Lucy ran away, or how she would know Henry's last name, when she burst into the bar.  

I forgot to mention Hook, maybe since he got the most boring storyline of looking for a lost car.   They're not using the originals to their potential.  Roni had about as much depth as Granny.

Now, we see that A&E didn't want to release their HUGE bombshell that Weaver wasn't a crime boss - he was an unethical police detective.  So glad they #nospoilered that.  

Another call-back to the pilot was when Roni said, "You don't look like you're having a banner day."

A lot of the dialogue just didn't feel natural... I can see A&E talking.  Like when Cinderella was talking about the "plot hole" in the original story and how many girls have the same shoe size as her.  And how many times did Jacinda use that whiny voice to tell Lucy, "You'll get me into so much trouble with my stepmother!"  No one her age would say that, as someone else also said above.

The worldbuilding is already sketchy.  Henry starts the episode saying "I need to find my own story", etc., and then Alice later says "When it's not your story, bad things happen."  It's impossible to root for the freak'in main character when he's doing stuff he shouldn't be doing for his own ego and vanity.  With barely any chemistry with Cinderella, the basic plank of the story is practically giving way after an hour.

I find it hard to believe that anyone could use a Fairygodmother's wand.  Rumple, fine.  But random Lady Tremaine?  This episode would have been ten times better if we got the Lady Tremaine from last year.  Imagine if she was realm jumping to destroy the life of every Cinderella in existence.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Camera One

[MadyGirl1987]

It wasn't amazing but I am intrigued at least. I am mostly interested to see how they got cursed to Hyperion Heights, though, so it remains to be seen how much that intrigue and interest hold up after that is revealed.

I am going to miss Storybrooke more then I thought I would. It felt weird being out of the town we have come to known over the last 6 years, even if storylines like Neverland and the Underworld took us to different locations for several episodes at a time. Also; a big city in the real world doesn't have the same charm or character an isolated small town populated only by fairy tale characters has.

Of course Rumple is dunking someone's head underwater when we first see him. Hopefully he can get some interesting stories with this new persona since Robert was being wasted on Rumple and Belle's drama.

Poor Lucy. At least Henry had Emma actually know she was his mother. To have your father not even recognize you... That's rough.

Speaking of Lucy. How does she figure into the curse? We saw in the finale she escaped the curse and Tiger Lilly tells her to go to her mother. Cinderella was cursed though, where Lucy was not. If they were not caught up in the curse together, how does Cinderella still remember her? Before Lucy found her, was Cinderella just going around thinking she had a kid but there was no kid? Why, if Lucy wasn't in the curse, would she be a part of Cinderella's cursed persona? I am assuming this is an oversight by the writer, but the only explanation I could think of would be that Lucy was intended to be cursed, so maybe it was preloaded into the persona and then she was just able to slip into that when she found her mom.

Edited October 7, 2017 by MadyGirl1987

[Shanna Marie]

13 hours ago, Curio said:

What's so evil about Victoria? Obviously, Lady Tremaine in the flashback murdered two people, but Hyperion Heights Vicky didn't seem all that bad. What is the big, bad, ultimate villain scheme here? Making the neighborhood more hipster? Buying property in Hyperion Heights so the residents have to move out of the neighborhood? That's not a supervillain scheme, that's called everyday life.

And if we're supposed to be so worried that she's destroying the community with her gentrification, then shouldn't we have seen something resembling a community? Instead, we had empty streets, an empty garden, an empty bar. The closest we got to something that felt like "community" may have been the cops razzing Eagle Scout Rogers while congratulating him on his promotion. Otherwise, you don't get the feeling anything at all will be lost if Victoria breaks up the community. No one interacts, there's no sense of street culture, there's no local diner that's been turned into a hipster coffee shop that the neighborhood people can't afford to patronize. And is everyone in Hyperion Heights a fairy tale person, or were they just dumped into an existing neighborhood? Are all the cops in the precinct from that world, or did the curse just make them think Rogers and Weaver have been there all along? Maybe that threat could have waited until we saw enough of the community to feel the urgency of the potential loss. How are we supposed to be sad that Roni is selling her bar when we've never seen the bar before, never seen a customer in there yet, never seen it as a community gathering place? I guess we're supposed to just automatically be sad because it's Regina, but it doesn't sound like it would be bad for her to get the money, and the Regina we know wouldn't be caught dead running a place like that, so it's not exactly sad to see Regina getting money and getting away from something she was clearly cursed into. I guess part of the danger was supposed to be that all these fairytale characters are less likely to figure out who they are and find each other again if they're separated, but, again, we need to know who they are to care about them being separated. All we've seen is Cinderella and Tiana as roommates, and surely they'd be able to stay in touch even if they had to move out of the neighborhood. Henry already doesn't seem to actually live in that neighborhood.

Because this show takes up way too much space in my brain, I found myself mentally rewriting the premiere. I think for the flashbacks, I'd take a cue from season one and go non-linear. The meeting of Henry and Cinderella isn't all that romantic or endearing in that context. They both look like jerks, and then there's the stupidity of him teaching her to drive the motorcycle when he was planning on giving her a ride. Plus the creepy Oedipus complex he has going on, fixating on a Latina woman driven by revenge, just like Dear Old Mom. Maybe they'd have done better to start with an iconic Cinderella moment -- the prince finds Cinderella with her missing shoe, but aha! that's not the prince, it's adult Henry! How did that happen? That would equate to the series starting with the TLK between Prince Charming and Snow White. And then do their "Snow Falls" a few episodes later after we've seen more of them together. Meanwhile, we need more of a sense of Cinderella in the present. In season one, the Snow White story worked in part because it so perfectly matched the popular iconography of the character. Here, they're going against the typical view of Cinderella, so they have to work a lot harder to prove to us that this really is Cinderella. Have Jacinda and Lucy living in the house with Victoria because Jacinda is having to put up with it to give Lucy her best chance. On her own, she can't afford to live in a nice apartment in a good neighborhood with good schools, and besides, this is her house, where she grew up and lived with her father before he married Victoria. She's not going to let Victoria drive her out, even if Victoria does treat her like a servant. We need to meet some of the other fairytale characters, maybe have a small side plot involving the cops to introduce Rogers and Weaver, and then all the characters will end up at Roni's for her epic closing party. Tiana will talk Jacinda into sneaking out and going, either Lucy finds a way to con Henry into going or he drives a customer there and decides to pop in for a while, Weaver takes his new partner there for a celebratory drink. The whole community is there in the bar, and it's seeing all those people interacting and realizing how important the bar is to the community that changes Roni's mind. Henry and Jacinda meet at the party and hit it off. When Jacinda learns that Victoria is coming at midnight to sign the papers, she sneaks out through the bathroom window, leaving Henry wondering if she ditched him, but he finds something of hers that she left behind. Rogers has noticed this and offers to help him track down his mystery woman.

Oh, and the word for the week was apparently "story." I wonder how many times it was repeated. A lot, I'm sure, because it started jumping out at me.

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

So, yeah. I liked it overall, am interested enough to see where it goes from here. 

You took the words right out of my mouth.  I just watched the episode, and like you, I'm intrigued to see where it goes. I get that Roni, Rodgers, and Weaver aren't really the Regina, Hook, and Rumpel that we know because these are entirely separate versions of them, and believe it or not, it works for me.  Besides, I at least want to know when, how, and why Lady Tremaine (who reminds me not a little bit of Cora) cast the curse.

Dammit, Adam and Eddie, just when I think I've gotten out, you manage to pull me back in!

[Miles]

That every alternate interpretation of the fairytale characters out there is real seems kinda dumb. I mean where does that end? And I'm sad that we got alternate Alice. I liked the one we had in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland...

I'm also getting annoyed by the curse storyline already. It's clear that the writers are trying to relive their glory days, but it's just so "been there, done that". Maybe I can get through half a season of it, maybe. But if they don't end it then, I'm out.

Why would they care that evil step mother wants the little girl to stay with her? Just tell her to fuck off.

On the plus side, the actors all seem good, except the evil step mother.

17 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I know asking for logic on a show with magic is silly, but shouldn't Hook and Regina look older? It appears Henry had time to grow up before there was a curse, so shouldn't they have aged in that time?

I just assumed he was in a realm where time moves faster for a while. I think the curse-time is supposed to be 2017, so he shouldn't be as old as he is otherwise.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Miles

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

That every alternate interpretation of the fairytale characters out there is real seems kinda dumb. I mean where does that end? And I'm sad that we got alternate Alice. I liked the one we had in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland...

No one asked for the "alternate fairy tale" concept. There was no demand for a murderous Cinderella, a stray cat Alice (even though she's pretty cool), or Evil Stepmother Wears Prada. It really diminishes the importance of the world the show already established, since it was just one of many others. The twists are no longer twists because Snow White is not really Snow White. She's just Snow White #481516. It goes from, "here's what really happened" to "this is what could have happened". Of all the thousands of possible universes, how was it the Enchanted Forest and New Realm just so happened to be the realms that got cursed in our world? It's just so random. 

Rumple messes with other people's "stories" all the time. His warning to Henry via Alice doesn't really make sense. I love how Alice said that she'd stay away if bad things happened, then lo and behold she's right smack dab in the middle of Hyperion Heights.

Edited October 7, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

29 minutes ago, Miles said:

I just assumed he was in a realm where time moves faster for a while. I think the curse-time is supposed to be 2017, so he shouldn't be as old as he is otherwise.

That raises a question: Why/how is he "Henry Mills" under the curse? Why didn't he get a cursed new identity like everyone else? He got a cursed backstory, but he's still Henry Mills. I guess it's not a really uncommon name, but there is already someone with that name, a teenager from a small town in Maine. Where does Henry think he grew up? What family does he remember (not the wife and kid he lost, but parents, grandparents, etc.)? And how is he functioning in the real world with the identity of a teenager from Maine?

As for who cast the curse, I'm not so sure it's Lady Tremaine. Her daughter is cursed and apparently working for her rather than living with her. If she cast the curse, would she make it so that her daughter she dotes on doesn't know her as a mother, while the stepdaughter she despises still knows her as a stepmother?

[legaleagle53]

54 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

That raises a question: Why/how is he "Henry Mills" under the curse? Why didn't he get a cursed new identity like everyone else? He got a cursed backstory, but he's still Henry Mills. I guess it's not a really uncommon name, but there is already someone with that name, a teenager from a small town in Maine. Where does Henry think he grew up? What family does he remember (not the wife and kid he lost, but parents, grandparents, etc.)? And how is he functioning in the real world with the identity of a teenager from Maine?

As for who cast the curse, I'm not so sure it's Lady Tremaine. Her daughter is cursed and apparently working for her rather than living with her. If she cast the curse, would she make it so that her daughter she dotes on doesn't know her as a mother, while the stepdaughter she despises still knows her as a stepmother?

Why not?  Regina cursed the genie trapped in her mirror to be her right-hand man Sydney, who had no knowledge that he really used to be a powerful genie.  Yet Jefferson (the Mad Hatter) was specifically brought over from Wonderland with his full memories intact as a special punishment for screwing Regina over in the Enchanted Forest/Whale's home realm.  Dark curses seem to grant those who cast them both immunity from the effects of the curse (no way Victoria doesn't know who everyone is, including herself) and the ability to decide who gets affected/transported by the curse and to what degree.  So it's quite possible that Lady Tremaine did curse her own daughter for reasons that for now remain known only to her.

[Camera One]

Basically, the rules are whatever A&E makes them.  They could explain it however they want (eg. his Author-ness meant he kept his name, blahblahblah).  Clearly, they just needed Henry to be Henry Mills because they wrote Lucy calling him that in the Season 6 finale since they wanted a call-back to Young Henry asking for Emma Swan.

Henry is already living outside of Hyperion Heights, so maybe he had his memories replaced separately?  Why did the Book show up?  We still don't know why the Original Recipe book showed up.

[cappoe]

When Henry has more chemistry with the gay character then his true love you know there's a problem. They really have zero chemistry, it's so forced.

[Shanna Marie]

22 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Dark curses seem to grant those who cast them both immunity from the effects of the curse (no way Victoria doesn't know who everyone is, including herself) and the ability to decide who gets affected/transported by the curse and to what degree.  So it's quite possible that Lady Tremaine did curse her own daughter for reasons that for now remain known only to her.

It's definitely not absolute evidence that Lady Tremaine didn't cast the curse, but it is a possible clue. I'm also leaning against her being the one to cast the curse because if they're not showing it up front, a la season one, then it's going to be a surprise!shocking!twist! and that means it's not going to be what seems obvious, so it will be more like 3B, where we were led to believe that surely Zelena cast the curse, and it was actually Snow. Which means that if they didn't show Lady Tremaine doing it up front, and she's the obvious villain, then it's going to be someone else, and the fact that her daughter isn't her daughter under the curse is meant as a clue. Or maybe that's what they want us to think, and the fact that it's Lady Tremaine when we don't think it could be because it's too obvious will be the twist.

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Clearly, they just needed Henry to be Henry Mills because they wrote Lucy calling him that in the Season 6 finale since they wanted a call-back to Young Henry asking for Emma Swan.

And in the season 6 finale, they had to call him by name for us to know that he was the adult version of the character. It would have lost some impact if it had been, "Are you Joe Smith?" and then the scene had to go on for her to explain that this was a cursed identity. But in-story, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I can tell why Henry's book wasn't a big seller. It's a huge tome, even as a trade paperback, the cover is lame, and it's got awful illustrations. I don't know who they're marketing it to -- it's not a kids' book, but it's got pictures, but it's not a graphic novel, and the cover looks like a self-help book or one of those "I left my husband and found myself in a third-world country" memoirs.

[PixiePaws1]

Everyone who we know is cursed looks to be a villain, former villain or was at one time intent on some kind of villainous act..I suspect the twist with this curse was  it was cast by a 'good person' to either send the perceived bad guys away - to get them out of the magic realms - or as a trial to see who might be worth saving. The caster likely sees Henry as a villain for meddling in stories in which he had no place being. Or perhaps all the cursed characters are the ones whose stories were tainted by Henry and they've all been put into a sort of quarantine away from the magic realms.

The caster(s) may not care about LwM. They just wanted these characters removed from where they were.

It didn't have the feel like this curse was cast with the same intent for revenge as Regina's or for removing the transport barrier between a magic realm and the LwM  like Snow's.

Alice might not be a villain ..she might be Rumple's insurance, cos he knew what was coming and when didn't he hedge his bets?

7 minutes ago, cappoe said:

When Henry has more chemistry with the gay character then his true love you know there's a problem. They really have zero chemistry, it's so forced.

Why can i only 'like' this post, once???!!!

[legaleagle53]

20 minutes ago, cappoe said:

When Henry has more chemistry with the gay character then his true love you know there's a problem. They really have zero chemistry, it's so forced.

Hold it -- what gay character?  I know A & E have said that there is going to be one this season, but if he/she was in this episode, I missed his/her appearance.

[Camera One]

19 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

And that big ass helmet made him look like a little kid. They cut out the part where Henry said August taught him to ride.

I found it really interesting that the line from the Sneak Peek was cut out of the finished product.  It was a bad idea to mention August if they planned on this being an episode that ANYBODY could jump into.  You know, all those non-existent children who didn't grow up on the series and can watch this new requel.  

I was just thinking about this episode from the perspective of someone who did not watch the show at all.  The only person they showed with Younger Henry was Regina, so a new viewer might find it interesting to have Adult Henry meet Roni.  But Hook's connection with Henry would not be known... he would be just a random police officer, though I guess they might wonder who the blond lady is in the book.  Whether the show grabs them would hinge on whether they liked Adult Henry and Cinderella.  

I really don't see this script as the best they've written in years.  I find the new characters about as likeable as Jasmine and Aladdin.  So par for the course, but it doesn't even compare to a case-of-the-week episode like "The Other Shoe".

Edited October 7, 2017 by Camera One

[Miles]

What is also kinda curious is how Cinderella learned to drive a motorcycle in under one second. Usually people need hours of lessons and most at least know how to drive a bycicle beforehand, so know how to hold balance. I doubt those exist in fairytale land..

 

20 hours ago, Senna said:

And forget about gas, how does Henry keep a smartphone (synced to portals, no less!) charged in a fairy tale land?! 

It bothered me as well. But then I fanwanked that Regina cast an everfull-spell on his gas tank and phone battery before he left.

 

20 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

* Cinderella's quick change of heart before stabbing the prince... like, what. It was sudden and not acted well at all.

I thought it was magic holding the dagger at first. That really was a piss poor acting job.

 

19 hours ago, greekmom said:

What the heck did I just watch? The Evil Queen.. THE EVIL QUEEN was reduced to a bar maid by the wicked step mother?

Well she was the owner of a bar, not just the bar maid. I don't know, I could see Regina doing something like this in her new life. Trying to find herself and stuff. The curse probably got that out of her somehow...

 

19 hours ago, Curio said:

I don't understand why murder is the only option people think about on this show. How about bringing the Prince to justice, Cinderella? How about putting your intelligence to good use and learn to become a skilled judge or attorney and sentence the Prince to prison instead? Why murder?

A peasant suing a prince in a midevil style world. Yeah good luck with that.

 

19 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Why are the portals vertical rings of fire now? Just so he can ride a bike through it?

Because we have to integrate this into the MCU somehow, damn it!

 

18 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

What does Lucy know, and how? In the flashbacks at the end of last season, didn't she have one of the real books

Also in the finale wasn't she the little girl in some enchanted-forest-type realm who was told to find her mother?

But in this episode it didn't seem like she ever was anywhere but in the real world. Is she under the curse, too? If so, why is she so sure that they are all fairytale characters? She shouldn't believe in that stuff, if she is under the curse. In season 1 Henry was exempt because he was born in the real world and was never cursed and Emma was exempt because she was protected by the magical wardrobe.

 

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Because this show takes up way too much space in my brain, I found myself mentally rewriting the premiere. I think for the flashbacks, I'd take a cue from season one and go non-linear.

That is a good point. We didn't start the flashbacks with Charming and Snow meeting, we started with something actually important to the episode. Why couldn't that be the same here?

 

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Have Jacinda and Lucy living in the house with Victoria because Jacinda is having to put up with it to give Lucy her best chance. On her own, she can't afford to live in a nice apartment in a good neighborhood with good schools, and besides, this is her house, where she grew up and lived with her father before he married Victoria.

This is apparently so obvious that you are the second person in this thread to come up with it. The writers must be really checked out at this point to not have made this simple connection. It needed to be more like the fairytale to make some kind of impact. Plus your version actually make sense, while the shows version doesn't.

 

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

No one asked for the "alternate fairy tale" concept. There was no demand for a murderous Cinderella, a stray cat Alice (even though she's pretty cool), or Evil Stepmother Wears Prada. It really diminishes the importance of the world the show already established, since it was just one of many others. The twists are no longer twists because Snow White is not really Snow White. She's just Snow White #481516. It goes from, "here's what really happened" to "this is what could have happened". Of all the thousands of possible universes, how was it the Enchanted Forest and New Realm just so happened to be the realms that got cursed in our world? It's just so random. 

Thanks for articulating this. This whole concept bothered me more than it generally should and I couldn't quite put my finger on why. The answer is that it cheapens the show tremendously, if what we watched so far isn't the real story, that the authors got slightly wrong, but just one of a quadrillion similar stories.

Rick and Morty deals in the existential nihilism, that inevitably comes with infinite realities, on a regular basis. It is heavy stuff and the whole foundation of the entire show. In Once Upon a Time the writers just stumbled into it, without even noticing, let alone adressing it. It's kind of fucked up.

 

39 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Hold it -- what gay character?  I know A & E have said that there is going to be one this season, but if he/she was in this episode, I missed his/her appearance.

I was stumped for a moment, too. But I would assume it's Alice? That's the only other new person he really interacted with.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Miles

[Camera One]

19 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Especially when it's all because he wants to be featured in a magical storybook. I don't think anyone would have a problem with him going off to college and living in another city where he could come home for visits. If he wants to do good and make a difference, there are plenty of ways he could do that in our world.  But apparently what he wants is to be called a hero and to get written up by some other author in a different world's storybook, and given what his family's been through and all their separations, him going off to another world where he'll be entirely separated from his family just so he can get fame and glory seems very selfish.

The weird thing is... Henry is a character in a book, since he has been a participant in all the events through the course of the show.  Complicating the issue is how this "new" book that Lucy is holding has the stories from the last 6 seasons AND it has Henry meeting Cinderella as "the last chapter".  Huh?  It would make more sense if they maintained continuity and said Henry left Storybrooke since he was eager document stories in other realms as The Author, but then he got stranded.  

The "excuse" of Henry racing on his motorcycle to get to the portal on time made no sense, since the portal opened at night.  He would have had plenty of time.  Actually, it opened exactly where he crashed into Cinders, didn't it?  Unless those blue flowers grew everywhere?  Sorry, I'm not planning to rewatch to check.

[Shanna Marie]

8 minutes ago, Camera One said:

The weird thing is... Henry is a character in a book, since he has been a participant in all the events through the course of the show. 

And yet, didn't he complain because he wasn't in any of the other books? But then, why would any of them be in any other books that take place in other places? Does he expect to be a hero in all the books? And aren't the books histories? They're about events that have happened. They aren't predicting events. Obviously, Henry's not in the books because he's still a teenager living in Storybrooke and hasn't done anything to go into the books set in other realms. It's not like that means he's a failure. Why does being in the books matter so much to him? In most shows, the guy careening through worlds and barging into other people's stories because he wants to be a hero in all of them would be the villain. That wouldn't be seen as a worthy goal. It's like a crackpot supervillain motivation.

11 minutes ago, Camera One said:

The "excuse" of Henry racing on his motorcycle to get to the portal on time made no sense, since the portal opened at night.  He would have had plenty of time.  Actually, it opened exactly where he crashed into Cinders, didn't it?  Unless those blue flowers grew everywhere? 

Oh, I didn't even pick up on the fact that he was driving like a maniac to get to the portal (I got home from the airport three minutes before the show started, so I was a little distracted during the first few minutes). Then that makes no sense at all, since he had time to teach Cinderella to ride a motorcycle, get knocked out by her, find his way to the ball on foot, do witty banter at the ball, deal with the whole murder thing, and get back to the flowers before the portal opened. There was no need to drive like he was doing.

15 minutes ago, Miles said:

Also in the finale wasn't she the little girl in some enchanted-forest-type realm who was told to find her mother?

But in this episode it didn't seem like she ever was anywhere but in the real world. Is she under the curse, too? If so, why is she so sure that they are all fairytale characters? She shouldn't believe in that stuff, if she is under the curse. In season 1 henry was excempt because he was born in the real world and was never cursed and Emma was excempt because she was protected by the magical wardrobe.

The thing with Henry in season one was that he figured it all out purely from the book. He hadn't experienced any of those events first-hand. There was no memory factor to it for him, no magic involved, just him putting two and two together, noticing the eerie parallels between the people in the book and the people in town, and believing it explained everything. But Lucy has experienced these events. If she's immune to the curse, she should remember it all. If she doesn't remember, then she's cursed. Would the curse allow her to believe? Why does she believe and see all the proof in the book when no one else does? Does the book tell how the curse came about? That's how it worked in season one. But she's not saying anything about who cursed them or why. Henry set Emma against Regina because he knew Regina cast the curse. It doesn't seem like Lucy knows anything other than who Henry is and that there is a curse. I can't even tell if she's getting all this info from one of the magical books or from Henry's failed novel.

[legaleagle53]

26 minutes ago, Miles said:

Well she was the owner of a bar, not just the bar maid. I don't know, I could see Regina doing something like this in her new life. Trying to find herself and stuff. The curse probably got that out of her somehow...

This Regina isn't the Regina we've known for the past six years. That Regina is still in Storybrooke where Henry left her about a decade ago.  The Regina who owns a bar and lives in Hyperion Heights is a Regina from an entirely different realm, as are the Hook and the Rumpel who live in Hyperion Heights.  Our Storybrooke characters probably don't even know that these doppelgängers exist.

Quote

But in this episode it didn't seem like she ever was anywhere but in the real world. Is she under the curse, too? If so, why is she so sure that they are all fairytale characters? She shouldn't believe in that stuff, if she is under the curse. In season 1 henry was exempt because he was born in the real world and was never cursed and Emma was exempt because she was protected by the magical wardrobe.

Henry was partially affected by the curse after he was brought to Storybrooke as an infant to be adopted by Regina.  That's why he at first didn't notice that nothing ever changed even though he did, and he didn't start recognizing who people really were until he'd been living there for about a decade.

And Emma wasn't affected by the curse because she and Pinocchio had already left the Enchanted Forest before the curse even hit.

Oh, and incidentally, that hyacinth suddenly appearing and blooming in what used to be the neighborhood garden?  That was the equivalent of the hands on the tower clock suddenly moving again after being frozen for 28 years.  Also, did anyone else notice that Henry lived in Apartment 815?  I see what you did there, Adam & Eddie!

Edited October 7, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Miles]

4 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Henry was partially affected by the curse after he was brought to Storybrooke as an infant to be adopted by Regina.  That's why he at first didn't notice that nothing ever changed even though he did, and he didn't start recognizing who people really were until he'd been living there for about a decade.

He was never effected by the curse. That was made clear. He did notice once he was old enough.

4 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

And Emma wasn't affected by the curse because she and Pinocchio had already left the Enchanted Forest before the curse even hit.

They didn't. The wardrobe being a protal was a stupid retcon in a later season. The wardrobe just protected Emma and Pinocchio from the effects of the curse, while it was still transported to our realm by the curse.

[legaleagle53]

7 minutes ago, Miles said:

He was never effected by the curse. That was made clear. He did notice once he was old enough.

Actually, he was, but only partially, as I said.  Adam and Eddie explained that for the first few years following his arrival in Storybrooke, Henry went around in some kind of fog that kept him from noticing how off everything was relative to him.  The fog only started lifting once Henry realized that his teacher Mary Margaret was really his biological grandmother Snow White -- and that was before she had given him the book.  We were never actually told or shown exactly what triggered that breakthrough or why it happened other than that it simply happened one day while they were talking and he suddenly had a vision of her as Snow White.

Edited October 7, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Camera One]

4 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

The fog only started lifting once Henry realized that his teacher Mary Margaret was really his biological grandmother Snow White -- and that was before she had given him the book.  We were never actually told or shown exactly what triggered that breakthrough or why it happened other than that it simply happened one day while they were talking and he suddenly had a vision of her as Snow White.

I suppose they could do the same with Lucy.  We'll see her suddenly see her mother dressed as Cinderella and that's when she goes looking for "Henry Mills" on Google.  No need to explain what triggered it.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Camera One

[retrograde]

I didn't hate it. I like the new Henry better than the old (not a high bar) although I'm not convinced he's a strong enough character to hang a show on. I like the little girl more than I ever liked little Henry. I liked the new Cinderella more than the previous one. I'd rather she was the main character.  New Alice was a step down -- chewed the scenery horribly. Evil stepmother was no evil queen. Hook and Regina are just... there. I don't see their "new" characters going anywhere interesting. I am into Rumple as a detective. They remain lucky to have an actor of his caliber on the show, so I hope they can do more with him now than before. 

Still, I don't see this lasting more than one -- maaaaybe two -- seasons at best. It's on a Friday night and I can't see any new viewers starting to watch now. 

[Shanna Marie]

14 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

The fog only started lifting once Henry realized that his teacher Mary Margaret was really his biological grandmother Snow White -- and that was before she had given him the book.  We were never actually told or shown exactly what triggered that breakthrough or why it happened other than that it simply happened one day while they were talking and he suddenly had a vision of her as Snow White.

That was after she gave him the book -- right after she gave him the book. She handed him the book and said she'd just found it in her closet and she wanted him to have it because it would give him hope, he started looking at it as she walked away, he saw the picture of Snow White and realized it was her, and when he looked up, he had a momentary vision of her as Snow White before she went back to being Mary Margaret.

The other difference between Henry and Lucy is that Emma was Emma's real identity (at least, the only one she'd ever lived under), and even if the storybook hadn't been real and Henry had been wrong about the curse, Emma really was Henry's mother. He had a real way of tracking her down and a real reason to find her. There was truth in spite of the curse. But with Lucy, if she's wrong about the curse, she's also wrong about Henry being her father. She had no reason or way to track him down aside from the curse. He and Jacinda didn't know each other, so it's not like an Emma and Neal thing where he didn't know he had a kid but knows it's true because he knows the mother.

I had another thought -- if they weren't going to have cursed Cinderella living with her evil stepmother and treated like a servant, they could have used the Evil Stepmother Wears Prada concept to update the story and had Jacinda in the Anne Hathaway role as the much put-upon assistant, the one who has to pick up dry cleaning, go on coffee runs, walk the dog, be on call at all hours, and do all the grunt work. Then the evil stepsister would be the yes-man flunky, sort of the Emily Blunt role, the one who's a little afraid of the boss but in a higher position than the assistant and enjoying tormenting the assistant while sucking up to the boss. Then we still have all the Cinderella stuff, but in a modern setting. But they just whiffed the whole thing, where there's nothing Cinderella at all about her life.

[Camera One]

4 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

But they just whiffed the whole thing, where there's nothing Cinderella at all about her life.

It was their usual telling and not showing.  We heard Cinderella telling Henry how she was a virtual prisoner and we're supposed to believe she's been a servant girl all along.  I guess Cinderella had to sweep at Mr. Clucks, so how Cinderella is that, eh?

Why didn't Lady Tremaine just kill the Prince, Cinders and the entire palace with her wand since she's soooooooo evil.

"My roommate was in the shower" is such a lame reason for being late for work.  It would be another thing if Jacinda discovered her daughter was gone just when she was about to leave for work and she panicked.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

It's like a crackpot supervillain motivation.

He was assisting a woman on her way to murder someone, so that's not really far fetched. Who cares if she's one of the many Cinderellas? She was still going to murder someone in cold blood with a stolen dagger. We don't even know if he was the correct prince.

Quote

This Regina isn't the Regina we've known for the past six years. That Regina is still in Storybrooke where Henry left her about a decade ago.  The Regina who owns a bar and lives in Hyperion Heights is a Regina from an entirely different realm, as are the Hook and the Rumpel who live in Hyperion Heights.  Our Storybrooke characters probably don't even know that these doppelgängers exist.

This premise has many possible solutions that could be interesting. What if Henry failed at his Author job so bad that he wrote the alternate realm into existence, but had to be separated from his family because he's not allowed to write his own happy ending? He was so uncreative, that he could only do twisted versions of what he had already seen. That's very unlikely to happen, but it's things like that we could see in a more interesting show. This could all be Henry's mess.

Edited October 7, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

45 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

This Regina isn't the Regina we've known for the past six years. That Regina is still in Storybrooke where Henry left her about a decade ago.  The Regina who owns a bar and lives in Hyperion Heights is a Regina from an entirely different realm, as are the Hook and the Rumpel who live in Hyperion Heights.  Our Storybrooke characters probably don't even know that these doppelgängers exist.

That doesn't seem likely, tbh. The different versions of fairytale charatcers don't look the same (except in the Wishrealm, which was created to be a bizzaro version of the OUAT prime universe). The two Cinderellas we have been shown are even different races. Alice looks different from the Wonderland edition. Yeah, I know in the promo for next week, we see something to support the lookalikes idea, but that could be caused by time-travel shenanigans. Even if there are lookalikes, I doubt if all three of the return characters are doppelgängers. If none of the original charatcers have any connection to OUAT 1-6 except for Henry, who would want to stick around?

Edited October 7, 2017 by Rumsy4

[CatWarmer]

I was sleepy last night so got really confused about the timelines, especially when they started flipping back and forth so quickly.  Just read a recap of the Season 6 finale and am still confused (and I watched all of the seasons).  So last night, starting in Storybrook where I guess at this point everyone is living basically normal happy lives albeit aware of their whole history...Henry decides to take a gap year and explore other realms so he can write more stories. Then we ff a few years where he's living in Seattle having written one book based on the first six seasons although he thinks it's all fiction.  Did he write it before or after the curse?  We don't know!

Incidentally, loved seeing Seattle because our son moved there a few months ago.  He lives behind Seattle Center so he (and I while visiting) have taken the monorail as regular public transit.  Also very glad he did not find an apartment in Hyperion Heights.

Anyway, after Lucy bursts in (no idea how or why she knows what she knows), the rest of the episode flips between current time and the gap year in a new fairy tale realm.  Somehow between the gap year and current times, everyone in the new fairy tale realm got cursed and sent to Seattle and per Lucy felt like a community which, as some of you have pointed out, we never saw.  Then as Henry visits Hyperion Heights, the current reality starts shifting a bit to align more with the precursed reality?

Does this all sound about right in general?

I have no issues with parallel universes/realms, having seen so many shows like that, but it's not clear if we're supposed to equate the new characters with the ones we already know or if they all have brand new personalities.  Or will it be like Fringe, and eventually one realm has to wipe out the other to exist?  Will we have multiple realms and timelines?  Will we never have any idea who anyone is supposed to be and what history they're following? 

Anyway, I don't mind adult Henry quite as much as young Henry.  And yes, I also wondered why Rachel from Orphan Black walked into the bar.  It's the haircut, basically - very iconic to that character.  Let's bring Tatiana Maslany in to play Cinderella clones - fun!

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

If none of the original charatcers have any connection to OUAT 1-6 except for Henry, who would want to stick around?

I guess it could be Clone Queen, but then we'd wonder where Wish!Robin is. The only character we'd really want a doppelganger for is Hook.

Edited October 7, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

After the first episode, it would surprisingly not matter if Regina and Hook were both clones, because their characters were pretty much devoid of personality.  Sadly, I felt nothing when Detective Rogers was looking at Emma's picture in the book nor when Henry walked in to Roni's.  As for Rumple, I couldn't care less about him at this point.  Once again, he's rewarded with a plum position and apparently the most popular member of the police department.  

Edited October 7, 2017 by Camera One

[kingshearte]

So that... happened. Many of you have covered my general thoughts already (from why does a step-grandmother get any say in anything having to do with the kid to how blah everything seems). I will watch the next episode to see what the deal is with Emma, but after that, I think I'm out. Although Colin is so, so pretty...

1 hour ago, Miles said:

What is also kinda curious is how Cinderella learned to drive a motorcycle in under one second. Usually people need hours of lessons and most at least know how to drive a bycicle beforehand, so know how to hold balance. I doubt those exist in fairytale land..

But OMG, this. Everything about the motorcycle drove me nuts. Him riding around insanely recklessly through the freaking forest on a bike that is not designed for off-roading, with NO HELMET. And then Cinderella, who's presumably never even seen an engine or a bicycle, can somehow manage to learn how to ride a motorcycle in a giant dress and heels (and again, no helmet!) just from having it explained to her, and she also goes tearing off through the forest. No. Just no. My motorcycle-riding self just cringed through the whole thing.

[Camera One]

I'm having Roni's monologue framed on my wall, so if anyone else is interested:

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This is my bar. It's my home. It's my life. Sure, it's seen better days, but that doesn't mean it won't have better days again. And just because life isn't what you want it to be right now, doesn't mean you should tear it down. I started thinking about all the things I want to do and have that I'm not doing or having.  How everyone in this neighborhood seems to have given up imagining what a better life might look like.  But if we can admit to ourselves what we want is out there somewhere... then maybe we can fight for it.  And if we do that, then we're halfway to getting it.  That's the thing about the people in this town.  Things can seem hopeless.  When suddenly, someone gives the rest of us inspiration.  Because the first step to a new beginning is imagining that one is even possible.  And I'll be damned if I stand by and let a bully like you take that way from us anymore.  

Let's break it down.

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Sure, it's seen better days, but that doesn't mean it won't have better days again. And just because life isn't what you want it to be right now, doesn't mean you should tear it down.

She's saying this to Victoria, but the "you" doesn't apply to her.  This is basically where it turns into nonsensical rambling.

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I started thinking about all the things I want to do and have that I'm not doing or having. 

This is where Victoria would have interrupted and said, "Am I supposed to care?"

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How everyone in this neighborhood seems to have given up imagining what a better life might look like.

What nonexistent people in the neighborhood is she referring to?  

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But if we can admit to ourselves what we want is out there somewhere... then maybe we can fight for it.  And if we do that, then we're halfway to getting it.  

So what you want is this failure of a bar?  And no, identifying a goal is not "halfway to getting it".

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That's the thing about the people in this town.  

Did the Writers suddenly forgot they weren't talking about Storybrooke?  This is supposed to be a neighborhood, isn't it?  

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 Things can seem hopeless.  When suddenly, someone gives the rest of us inspiration.

What event was inspiring in this episode?

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 And I'll be damned if I stand by and let a bully like you take that way from us anymore.  

Us?  Is that like the Royal "We"?

Edited October 7, 2017 by Camera One

[CCTC]

8 minutes ago, kingshearte said:

My motorcycle-riding self just cringed through the whole thing.

The sword fighting made me cringe a little bit as well.  I appreciate that they want to show a woman as someone who could fight and be more than a damsel, so I feel a bit guilty critiquing it, but it was a little overdone.  She was able to grab a sword and fight like an expert against all of the guards in a large gown and heels and get away with ease.   It just seemed like they were trying to hard to show what a spunky heroine she was (same with her slugging Henry and stealing the bike), but I think it would have worked a little better if it had been toned down just a bit.  Part of it might have been how it was choreographed, because it just was not that convincing. 

Although I do appreciate that there was a fight and it was not just her in the middle of the street with her allies just standing behind her while she shoots sparks at her enemy, which is basically all the other hero-villain confrontations the last three years.