S04.E02: I'm Not Her

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

While Annalise reconnects with an important client from her past, she continues to struggle to move forward in her personal life. Meanwhile, the “Keating 4” find it difficult to move past their tarnished reputations; and in a flash-forward, details to a tragic crime begin to unfold on.

[truthaboutluv]

Glad the episode went with Laurel making peace with Connor because I was not here for a season of him apologizing and kissing her ass when one, she knows for a fact her father had Wes killed and two, there was literally nothing Connor could have done because he found Wes already dead.  In other news, Frank continues to be obsessed with Laurel and Annalise. I'm sure Annalise is not dead and while I'm not sure whose blood that is, I'm positive the former hooker will come back into play. Hell, based on the previews, it may be her body Annalise is called to identify next week. As depressing as it was, Annalise was right in there not being much hope for the woman considering she's that age with no job skills, never having had a job other than being a prostitute. 

[Neurochick]

Annalise was on fire tonight.

The sad thing is what Annalise spoke about still goes on today.

So does this mean Annalise will start dating her therapist?

Edited October 6, 2017 by Neurochick

[Lady Calypso]

I thought this episode was actually fairly well done. I was engaged in it pretty much the entire time. Annalise's case was solid, especially with the interloping of her therapy with Isaac, and I like that he pointed out things to her that she may not have realized. I do expect that she'll be right about her hooker friend. With over fifty years of being in that business and not having a life that she deserved, it'll be tough to just be able to start now. 

So, Laurel was decent this episode. She can be frustratingly annoying, but I really liked her scene with Connor. I think it's a nice contrast to the Annalise/Frank disaster with Laurel forgiving Connor...mostly because she knows who really is at fault and I guess she can't be angry at Connor. I know this whole thing with her father will get on my nerves at some point, but I'm actually interested in seeing her take him down, or trying to. Now I'm convinced he has something to do with the whole Where's The Baby flashforward...and now we can add in Where's Annalise...as well as Whose Blood Is On The Elevator. 

A rare moment where I saw something between Michaela and Asher. I really liked how she defended him, and it was a rare serious Asher moment. We really need more of those.

 In other news, Simon's still a dick.

Bonnie/Nate seem to be bonding over their hatred for Annalise. I never thought of the show going there, but my mind immediately went to them in their end scene, especially with the foreshadowing over Bonnie/Frank possibly falling out over Frank's Annalise and Laurel obsessions, and with Bonnie trying to move on from Annalise. Also, Frank is being creepy and doing illegal things for Annalise in order to gain her trust again. I'll say the way he forced open her door before she could close it in his face was a bit chilling. 

I guess with no offers for Connor, dare I say he may actually be considering a change in career? We actually learned that his father's a lawyer! I don't believe we learned that before. Although I can't picture what Connor might do if he decides to not continue with law school. I think he's a pretty good lawyer, all things considered. 

[stonehaven]

Great episode with enough twists to stay focused...and Annalise's argument was a powerful one..I still don't trust the shrink. I don't like the idea that someone who barely knows me thinks I should trust them after just two sessions...trust needs to be built to open up..and that shrink should have let her find her way to him.

[DearEvette]

Yup.  Great episode.

Bonnie and Nate are both bitter, betrayed and distrustful.  Wonder how that is going to play out.

Frank is bordertown creepy now with Ana.

 I am glad the show didn't pull a bait and switch with the K4 interviews vs. offers.  Michaela did well. She was polished, confident and gave good interview.  Whereas Asher fumbled a bit but was still better than Connor and Laurel.  I am glad the outcomes matched what we saw.  Also Michaela's smackdown of whathisface was good.  She does that cold steely thing well.

Did Asher get an internship?  I don't remember.

Connor and Laurel kiss and make up.  Glad to see that.  But please, God, stop crying.

Analise is getting her mojo back. Her courtroom scene was fab.  But yeah, I agree with her about her bet.  Being a drug addict, prostitute, and felon is that woman's normal.  Turning that off after 50 years and suddenly being a regular citizen will not be easy and may not be possible without some real support.

The therapy scenes were tense and well done.  Like a sparring match.  Viola and Jimmy are good scene partners. Still don't trust him though.

Of course the ending, what would the show be without a mysterious flash forward murder connected to Ana?

[Dee]

L. Scott Caldwell is a gem.

[Apprentice79]

11 minutes ago, Dee said:

L. Scott Caldwell is a gem.

Her smackdown of Annalise at the beginning of the show was wonderful.  When she told her how pimps break down young vulnerable girls to submit to prostitution was chilling.  It was filled with rage, sadness, anger and shame.    L. Scott  Caldwell and Viola Davis were sublime in their scenes together..

Edited October 6, 2017 by Apprentice79

[HunterHunted]

I know that they were writing around the age of the actress they cast as Annalise's client (was her name Jasmine?), but in 1968 there were not a whole heck of a lot of resources for anyone--white or black. The Community Mental Heather Act was passed in 1963. Medicaid in 65. Even by the 70s, it was a bit of a different story. The state hospitals really started emptying out in the 70s and 80s. Besides that, this was a very strong episode.

[pennben]

I thought this was a good episode, but I do get a bit annoyed with the layering of the flashforwards---just tell the damn story, don't just tease!  Last year, I stayed current on the episodes as there was a bit of a countdown going on to see which character was the one left standing (or, I guess the better phrase is, one left dead:P).  

I think this year, I'm going to go back to binge-mode, where I let the episodes build up for a half-season and blast through them all at once. It was either the first or second season where that just happened by circumstance that I couldn't watch a bunch, and I absolutely inhaled them all at once.  This feels like a good binge show for me at this point. 

[possibilities]

Legal question: can someone have their own record unsealed if they request it?

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Annalise was on fire tonight.

The sad thing is what Annalise spoke about still goes on today.

So does this mean Annalise will start dating her therapist?

YES! I This was why I was happy that AK got her licence back. I miss the case of the week. I really want Isaac to be not connected to Jorge Castillo, but something about AK making parallels to Sam got my hackles up. I wondered if she had looked him up and was testing him out.

47 minutes ago, Dee said:

L. Scott Caldwell is a gem.

Yes she is. I was happy to see her return tonight, but I worry she will join the band of lost causes like Bonnie & Frank. At her age if AK doesn't employ her, who will?

36 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I know that they were writing around the age of the actress they cast as Annalise's client (was her name Jasmine?), but in 1968 there were not a whole heck of a lot of resources for anyone--white or black. The Community Mental Heather Act was passed in 1963. Medicaid in 65. Even by the 70s, it was a bit of a different story. The state hospitals really started emptying out in the 70s and 80s. Besides that, this was a very strong episode.

I think that's the point. The only folks getting second chances back then were white girls and I doubt if any of them got more than one second chance.

 

Things are picking up. We saw Asher demonstrate a little more maturity. It looks like I'm getting my wish for crazy Laurel. She seems to be taking AK's place as the one who sucks them into the crazy. She's already got Micheala and Connor  will do anything for her out of guilt. If she's got Micheala, she pretty much has Asher. Frank will do anything for her, and Bonnie will come along with Frank. Nate is just the lap dog. He claims he wants AK to stay away, but he'll come running if she calls. One Laurel discovers the Castillo/Mahooney connection that's AK. 

 

Quick thoughts:

I like Oliver's IT company even if the name is corny.

I hope Connor does get in with Legal Aid. It does suit him. Connor's father is a lawyer.

Frank's studying the LSAT's . Is he going to finally try for law school?

I don't think that AK's blood or Laurel's baby in AK's apartment. I'm still not sure if we're seeing a hysterical pregnancy or if Laurel loses the baby before the flash forward scene, but I do think the baby was already gone by that point.

 

I'll have more thoughts after a rewatch.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Milaxx

[possibilities]

Why does Connor feel guilty? He tried to save Wes. He didn't cause the fire and Wes's death was in no way his fault.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I thought this episode was actually fairly well done. I was engaged in it pretty much the entire time. Annalise's case was solid, especially with the interloping of her therapy with Isaac, and I like that he pointed out things to her that she may not have realized. I do expect that she'll be right about her hooker friend. With over fifty years of being in that business and not having a life that she deserved, it'll be tough to just be able to start now. 

So, Laurel was decent this episode. She can be frustratingly annoying, but I really liked her scene with Connor. I think it's a nice contrast to the Annalise/Frank disaster with Laurel forgiving Connor...mostly because she knows who really is at fault and I guess she can't be angry at Connor. I know this whole thing with her father will get on my nerves at some point, but I'm actually interested in seeing her take him down, or trying to. Now I'm convinced he has something to do with the whole Where's The Baby flashforward...and now we can add in Where's Annalise...as well as Whose Blood Is On The Elevator. 

A rare moment where I saw something between Michaela and Asher. I really liked how she defended him, and it was a rare serious Asher moment. We really need more of those.

 In other news, Simon's still a dick.

Bonnie/Nate seem to be bonding over their hatred for Annalise. I never thought of the show going there, but my mind immediately went to them in their end scene, especially with the foreshadowing over Bonnie/Frank possibly falling out over Frank's Annalise and Laurel obsessions, and with Bonnie trying to move on from Annalise. Also, Frank is being creepy and doing illegal things for Annalise in order to gain her trust again. I'll say the way he forced open her door before she could close it in his face was a bit chilling. 

I guess with no offers for Connor, dare I say he may actually be considering a change in career? We actually learned that his father's a lawyer! I don't believe we learned that before. Although I can't picture what Connor might do if he decides to not continue with law school. I think he's a pretty good lawyer, all things considered. 

This pretty much sums up all of my thoughts about this episode.

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Annalise was on fire tonight.

The sad thing is what Annalise spoke about still goes on today.

I loved that speech, and her interactions with Jasmine. I missed Annalise making speeches like that in the courtroom, it was really nice to see that side of her again. 

And her mentions of Sam when talking to her therapist had me going, "Ooooooh....". 

[NUguy514]

Viola and L. Scott Caldwell were fantabulous together.

I actually got a little teary during the Connor/Laurel scene. #embarrassed #notreally

I. Am. HERE for Michaela threatening to annihilate Simon!

I love the Michaela/Asher relationship more than anything and the Michaela/Asher/Connor friendship; if Laurel can be less of a Debbie Downer, I could get behind her joining that trio.

Re: the end: Ugh, I don't want to have to worry again about one of the kids dying for the second season in a row.

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, Milaxx said:

I think that's the point. The only folks getting second chances back then were white girls and I doubt if any of them got more than one second chance.

My larger point was that Annalise said the White girls were going to rehab. There really wasn't a concept of that kind of thing then. The second chances that these girls got was to be released to their family to be stuck in a hospital until they were cured or a remote farm or some weird convent school. I have a friend. She's White. Her aunt was stuck by her family in a state mental hospital in the 60s for menstrual cramps until she died. This was a White woman from a good family. She spent decades doped out of her gourd in a mental hospital because 5 days a month she was bitchy and in pain. The second chances back then were shitty too.

[wanderingstar]

I am really enjoying this season so far. It feels like they're kind of going more for psychological thriller this season.

Loved seeing Annalise being badass in court again. I really missed that in season 3.

The Laurel/Connor scene was great, and I'm glad they made peace. 

The K4  interviews were hilarious. Of course Michaela nailed it. Seeing Connor and Asher flailing was hilarious.

I wish Laurel had given Michaela 5 seconds to enjoy getting her internship offer before pouncing on her. I know Laurel wants to take down her father, but she needs to dial back her rabid obsession.

I don't trust Annalise's therapist, Isaac. 

So according to the flashforwards, Laurel's baby is missing and so is Annalise. The sight of that blood outside Annalise's hotel room is very disturbing, indeed.

Wondering if/how Simon Drake will be sucked into this season's mystery.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Gillian Rosh
Correcting typo

[Milaxx]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

Why does Connor feel guilty? He tried to save Wes. He didn't cause the fire and Wes's death was in no way his fault.

My guess PTSD. I doubt the show will fully explore this, but I don't think Connor ever really got over his part in Sam's murder/body disposal. On top of that he is the only one to have seen Wes dead. I think Connor is carrying around a lot of unresolved guilt.

5 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

My larger point was that Annalise said the White girls were going to rehab. There really wasn't a concept of that kind of thing then. The second chances that these girls got was to be released to their family to be stuck in a hospital until they were cured or a remote farm or some weird convent school. I have a friend. She's White. Her aunt was stuck by her family in a state mental hospital in the 60s for menstrual cramps until she died. This was a White woman from a good family. She spent decades doped out of her gourd in a mental hospital because 5 days a month she was bitchy and in pain. The second chances back then were shitty too.

Both are true. Some ended up with the fate your friend's aunt had and some did go to "rehab".  I doubt it was as nice as what we would think of as rehab today,. It may have been little more than a workhouse, but t did exist.

[blackwing]

8 hours ago, Milaxx said:

I like Oliver's IT company even if the name is corny.

I forget what the name with "Ollie" in it was, but later when he was pitching the law firms he introduced himself as being with " Hampton I.T. Services".  Subtle way of showing he listened to his friends.  

L. Scott Caldwell was amazing, especially when she was telling Annalise about the endless cycle of being in and out of prison.

I don't expect a show about law to be realistic, but come on, those interview scenes were appalling.  No interviews would be conducted in a large open room in full view/earshot of everyone else, and most of all, no interviewer who is an attorney representing his firm would be such a jerk to a candidate, even if the candidate is unqualified.  

Seems pretty obvious that Annalise and Jimmy Smits will get together, and that he is caught up in whatever is going on with Laurel's baby   I still don't care about Laurel's baby.

[Keepitmoving]

Go away Laurel, go take down your father yourself and keep Michaela out of it. Again, I can think of a ton of stuff to do with Michaela that don't have shit to do with Laurel's drama, which again should not be at the center if this show IMO. 

Anna and her case were great. 

Michaela and Asher love it. Michaela has such a frightening, sinister yet calm way of threatening people, I love it.

They need to hurry up and step it up with Connor. There is absolutely no reason for him to go groveling to Laurel for forgiveness, except to repeatedly make shit be all about her and her grief over a character I could not have cared less about. I can't wait for his dad to show up, hopefully he'll get more investment from PN than Michaela and her mother received.  

 Seems like it's Laurel and Connor who will be questioning if they still want to be lawyers. PN did say that some of them would have second thoughts. Quite frankly I think Asher should question his career choice too. He said it's in his blood because of his dad/upbringing but that doesn't mean he'll be successful. I also don't think being a lawyer because it's what his dad was is reason enough to go into the same profession.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Milaxx]

I didn't mind the interviews. It feels like the call backs are where the serious interviewing occurs. Laurel & Micheala handled the question well. They made it a non issue and moved on. Even Asher did well in his own way. Connor is floundering  and it shows in pretty much everything he does. 

7 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Michaela and Asher love it. Michaela has such a frightening, sinister yet calm way of threatening people, I love it.

When Micheala was acing her interviews I remembered her saying in season one she could reinvent herself. Last night I was reminded once again why I love her character.

9 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Seems like it's Laurel and Connor who will be questioning if they still want to be lawyers. PN did say that some of them would have second thoughts. Quite frankly I think Asher should question his career choice too. He said it's in his blood because of his dad/upbringing but that doesn't mean he'll be successful. I also don't think being a lawyer because it's what his dad was is reason enough to go into the same profession.

Oddly enough it's a very common thing among doctor's and lawyers.

[Milaxx]

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

12 hours ago, Milaxx said:

I like Oliver's IT company even if the name is corny.

I forget what the name with "Ollie" in it was, but later when he was pitching the law firms he introduced himself as being with " Hampton I.T. Services".  Subtle way of showing he listened to his friends.  

Apparently he did. 

[helenamonster]

Annalise has got her groove back! I'm happy she's finally had a win, in more than one sense of the word, for the first time in I don't even know how long.

The scene with Connor and Laurel was great. I think Laurel kept up her hatred for him re: Wes's death because she needed someone to blame and he was the easiest target. But now that she knows that her dad is responsible, and has an opening to take him down through Michaela, I think it was easier for her to let go of the unfair grudge and focus her anger where it really mattered.

When Connor couldn't think of why he wanted to be a lawyer, it made a lot of sense. I get that a lot of people decide to become lawyers (or whatever profession) because their parent does it, but he's never had the passion for it that the other K4 have had (I realize Asher would be in the same boat as Connor because of his own upbringing, but his goals still felt more authentic than Connor's ever did). It would be interesting to see at least one of the kiddos veer off the lawyer path and try something different, and I think Connor is the most realistic candidate, with Laurel being a close second. She wanted to become a lawyer to help the disenfranchised, but there are other ways she can do that.

We didn't see a lot of Bonnie this episode but what we did see was great. She spirals in a very entertaining way. I'd never really considered her and Nate together before, and I don't know if that's where this show is going, but I don't hate it? I'm actually kind of for it? Leave me alone?

Regarding the flashfoward, my prediction that will definitely be thrown completely off when we get new info next week: someone (Annalise? though I can't think of a motive) forced drugs into Laurel in order to induce premature labor and either took the baby or, ugh, disposed of it somewhere. I think that's Laurel's blood in the elevator, I think she gave birth there.

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

Why does Connor feel guilty? He tried to save Wes. He didn't cause the fire and Wes's death was in no way his fault.

Survivor's guilt isn't always rational. For a while, Connor had convinced himself that he'd killed Wes because when he was trying to give him CPR, Wes's rib cracked, and then Connor ran out to escape the fire before being able to try and help Wes any further. Even though he knows now that Wes was already dead by the time he found him, that's a really tough thing to shake.

[tennisgurl]

It was great to see Annalise back on her game! I missed the dramatic Annalise courtroom speeches, and the Case of the Week episodes. I like the greater scopes stuff, but I hope we get back to more of that. Jasmine the prostitute was really great, and that speech she gave about being raped at 13 was just heartbreaking. The poor woman really had no chance. Yeah its important to take responsibility for your own actions, but its clear that this woman has been chewed up and spit out by abusers and the system, that she really had no choice in anything. I do hope things work out for her, but as a 50 something woman with no work experience and skills, its going to be tough. 

Those interviewees talking to Asher and Connor were SUCH asshole, what the hell? No wonder they floundered, they were stuck with this creeps clearly trying to trip them up, especially Connors. Why are they wasting their time (and Connors) if they just want to gossip? I think its possible that Connor might decide to leave the law, but I hope he doesn't. He is actually a pretty good lawyer, when he isn't having some kind of mental/emotional breakdown. He really did connect with that woman who was abused by her husband, its too bad he didn't get an interview with the people Laurel, he might actually rediscover some passion. Also, we find out his dads a lawyer, which is just about the most we know about his parents. I do hope we can meet more of his family and figure out what his deal is, now that we know so much about everyone else. 

I loved Michaela threatening Skeezy Simon for being shitty to Asher, and the confrontation between them. Michaela gets so scary when she threatens people, its so awesome. Damn it, I love them! 

What was up with everyone giving shit to Connor about White Privilege this week? White Privilege is certainly a thing, but do people really need to lecture him on it when he is clearly having a shitty time anyway? It ties into Annalises plot I guess, but it just seems like more people being assholes to Connor. Its not like Connor has ever really ridden being rich or white before, so why is everyone dumping on him now? Even his boyfriend! At least laurel finally forgave him, and hopefully they can get on better terms now. Really, Connor didn't do anything wrong with Wes except maybe lying about being there. It seems more like survivors guilt, and Laurel hated Connor because she needed someone to blame. But now that she knows it was her dad, she doesn't have to blame Connor anymore. 

[harmfulhazards]

An improvement over the last episode. Happy to finally see Annalise back her way to being a badass defense attorney. It will be interesting to see her win cases without relying on Oliver's hacking skills or students conveniently obtaining a crucial piece of information last minute.

Still couldn't care less about Laurel's baby, but this development with the blood looks intriguing.

Bonnie/Nate Annalise hate-fest is happening too early in the season to be anything other than red herring.

And is Frank actually trying to get into law school?

[helenamonster]

3 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

I thought that perhaps the K4 would band together and form their own practice since it was suggested that they were the four lowest performing students in the class and no firm would want to hire them.  Although, I'm not entirely sure how successful a firm consisting of four first years would be. 

And when did the K4 become the class bottom feeders?  I thought they were all chosen because they were the star students.  I can understand saying their grades slipped due to all of the AK drama, but to say they went from the absolute top to the absolute bottom seemed unrealistic to me.  And before this season, were we aware that they were having such academic difficulties?  I know past seasons would include random comments about a test coming up in another class or something of that nature, but their academic progression outside of AK never seemed to be more than an afterthought.

Their firm wouldn't be at all successful, since they're second-year law students who haven't taken the bar exam and are not licensed to practice.

Their academic performance was a huge plot point last season as the impetus for the university investigating Annalise and putting her on probation. They weren't at the absolute bottom, but they were all in the bottom 25%. But after another semester of murder and mayhem, their grades have understandably tanked. Even aside from the craziness, just regular work for Annalise took up all of their time.

[Keepitmoving]

Laurel looks like she's in a psych ward and not the maternity ward in that flash forward.  

Frank looks helpful and caring, yet obsessive and scary when it comes to Anna.

[Milaxx]

53 minutes ago, helenamonster said:

.....

We didn't see a lot of Bonnie this episode but what we did see was great. She spirals in a very entertaining way. I'd never really considered her and Nate together before, and I don't know if that's where this show is going, but I don't hate it? I'm actually kind of for it? Leave me alone?

Regarding the flashfoward, my prediction that will definitely be thrown completely off when we get new info next week: someone (Annalise? though I can't think of a motive) forced drugs into Laurel in order to induce premature labor and either took the baby or, ugh, disposed of it somewhere. I think that's Laurel's blood in the elevator, I think she gave birth there.

 

Bonnie & Nate? mmmmm never thought about it, but it could be interesting. 

Something about that flashforward makes me think the baby has been gone for some time prior to that scene. I also can't see AK forcing drugs into Laurel. Typically her schemes are more reactionary. I can't imagine her putting drugs into Laurel.  Whatever happened, my guess is if Laurel is no longer pregnant, the baby isn't alive. Unless we're going into a scenario where the baby is kidnapped and returned years later, I can't imagine this show doing the protracted NICU route that a 7 mth traumatic birth would involve. 

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, RogerDodger said:

I thought that perhaps the K4 would band together and form their own practice since it was suggested that they were the four lowest performing students in the class and no firm would want to hire them.  Although, I'm not entirely sure how successful a firm consisting of four first years would be. 

And when did the K4 become the class bottom feeders?  I thought they were all chosen because they were the star students.  I can understand saying their grades slipped due to all of the AK drama, but to say they went from the absolute top to the absolute bottom seemed unrealistic to me.  And before this season, were we aware that they were having such academic difficulties?  I know past seasons would include random comments about a test coming up in another class or something of that nature, but their academic progression outside of AK never seemed to be more than an afterthought.

Season 1 they were all star students. It was a major plot last season that the K5 were all bottom ranked.  AK lost her spot teaching Criminal Law and made a bargain to open the clinic was in part  because instead of her interns being top of the class, they were all ranked in the bottom. They studied a more last season and passed their midterms, but overall everyone in the Clinic did well, so even though they improved their grades, so did the rest of the class.  

Edited October 6, 2017 by Milaxx

[secnarf]

8 hours ago, blackwing said:

I don't expect a show about law to be realistic, but come on, those interview scenes were appalling.  No interviews would be conducted in a large open room in full view/earshot of everyone else, and most of all, no interviewer who is an attorney representing his firm would be such a jerk to a candidate, even if the candidate is unqualified. 

I've actually seen interviews for a similar type of position occur like that, albeit in a much much much larger setting. Literally thousands of people in a massive room with all of the programs at their own booths, and candidates could go around to learn about the positions, but also interview on the spot.

2 hours ago, helenamonster said:

 I think that's Laurel's blood in the elevator, I think she gave birth there.

That was my thought as well.

 

2 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Laurel looks like she's in a psych ward and not the maternity ward in that flash forward.  

Frank looks helpful and caring, yet obsessive and scary when it comes to Anna.

It didn't really look like a *hospital* to me. Whether it's a psych ward or not, hospitals don't look all that different. What hospital would have such an empty hallway??

[DearEvette]

6 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I've actually seen interviews for a similar type of position occur like that, albeit in a much much much larger setting. Literally thousands of people in a massive room with all of the programs at their own booths, and candidates could go around to learn about the positions, but also interview on the spot.

Yup.  Actually that is one of the more realistic things I've seen on the show as it pertains to getting an internship or job through a job fair like that. 

When my husband was getting his PhD he had to become a member of his academic professional society so they could go to regional and national conventions where they'd have interviews set up.  It is an efficient way to have interviews from schools  all over the country in one place who are looking to hire in the market for tenure track professors.  And they all took place in big convention centers.  One time he had travel to Chicago for it and he had four interviews set up and he came back home so pissed because at one of the schools he was interviewing for, one if the interviewers was this septuagenarian Professor who was about to retire who kept nodding off during the interview while the other interviewer kept apologizing for it.  One of his classmates who was also there interviewing at the time came back with a story of one school where the panel had asked about his dissertation thesis and they proceeded to politely shred his theory. 

The important part is getting the call back, just like Michaeala was saying.  That is when you know you are in serious contention and are invited (and flown out) to the school or firm or company and interviewed in a more conventional setting.

My husband and his grad school friends all laugh about it now cuz most are duly employed but it is brutal and so competitive when ti is happening.

[Carolina Girl]

19 hours ago, pennben said:

I thought this was a good episode, but I do get a bit annoyed with the layering of the flashforwards---just tell the damn story, don't just tease!  Last year, I stayed current on the episodes as there was a bit of a countdown going on to see which character was the one left standing (or, I guess the better phrase is, one left dead:P).  

I think this year, I'm going to go back to binge-mode, where I let the episodes build up for a half-season and blast through them all at once. It was either the first or second season where that just happened by circumstance that I couldn't watch a bunch, and I absolutely inhaled them all at once.  This feels like a good binge show for me at this point. 

Yep, I think I may do this too.  Let the 5-episdoe DTV DVR limit hit and then watch.  

[Keepitmoving]

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

 

It didn't really look like a *hospital* to me. Whether it's a psych ward or not, hospitals don't look all that different. What hospital would have such an empty hallway??

That's what I meant, that it didn't look like a hallway in your average hospital.  And we've seen her in the hospital before after the explosion/fire and this place didn't look like that at all.

I don't know what or whose blood that was in the elevator, but I'm wondering if Laurel did have that abortion, or a miscarriage and then lost her mind and that stomach is something like a hysterical pregnancy. Now that would a twist, that, that blood in the elevator has nothing to do with the pregnancy and that there hasn't been a pregnancy for some time. Because in that flash forward she also doesn't look like a baby was just cut out of her body. I mean would she even be conscious yet if that happened?

Edited October 6, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Lady Calypso]

I never actually considered that Laurel could be in a mental hospital or psych ward. I mean, it would be different from the last mystery, with Laurel in the hospital. No windows, all white, empty and narrowed hallways, it could add up. I do think she was pregnant (although she did go to her OB appointments alone, right, so those scenes could be a manifestation of her mind if they wanted to go down that route?) and if she was pregnant, maybe the flashforward isn't directly after losing the baby. Maybe she lost the baby weeks before and is going through an extreme psychosis state because of it. 

A lot of possibilities, ones that I don't necessarily care about, but I do enjoy speculating in general. 

[secnarf]

25 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

That's what I meant, that it didn't look like a hallway in your average hospital.  And we've seen her in the hospital before after the explosion/fire and this place didn't look like that at all.

I don't know what or whose blood that was in the elevator, but I'm wondering if Laurel did have that abortion, or a miscarriage and then lost her mind and that stomach is something like a hysterical pregnancy. Now that would a twist, that, that blood in the elevator has nothing to do with the pregnancy and that there hasn't been a pregnancy for some time. Because in that flash forward she also doesn't look like a baby was just cut out of her body. I mean would she even be conscious yet if that happened?

Psychiatric units/hospitals really don't look all that different from non-psychiatric units/hospitals, though. It's the emptiness that is strange. It's almost like it's a fake hospital to gaslight her or something.

We don't know exactly how much time elapsed between the baby actually disappearing and Laurel waking up. Whether or not she is conscious depends more on blood loss and other factors - not so much "having a baby cut out of her body". After all, women are awake for C-sections all the time.

I will be really annoyed if they go the 'hysterical pregnancy' route since we already had Annalise hallucinating her baby last season (or was it two seasons ago?).

[Milaxx]

22 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I never actually considered that Laurel could be in a mental hospital or psych ward. I mean, it would be different from the last mystery, with Laurel in the hospital. No windows, all white, empty and narrowed hallways, it could add up. I do think she was pregnant (although she did go to her OB appointments alone, right, so those scenes could be a manifestation of her mind if they wanted to go down that route?) and if she was pregnant, maybe the flashforward isn't directly after losing the baby. Maybe she lost the baby weeks before and is going through an extreme psychosis state because of it. 

A lot of possibilities, ones that I don't necessarily care about, but I do enjoy speculating in general. 

I've had my suspicions. At first I thought psych ward because why else call Isaac? He's not a medical doctor. However I agree the room/hallway looks strangely empty for any sort of hospital.

 

7 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Psychiatric units/hospitals really don't look all that different from non-psychiatric units/hospitals, though. It's the emptiness that is strange. It's almost like it's a fake hospital to gaslight her or something.

We don't know exactly how much time elapsed between the baby actually disappearing and Laurel waking up. Whether or not she is conscious depends more on blood loss and other factors - not so much "having a baby cut out of her body". After all, women are awake for C-sections all the time.

I will be really annoyed if they go the 'hysterical pregnancy' route since we already had Annalise hallucinating her baby last season (or was it two seasons ago?).

I think AK's imaginary baby was 2 season's ago. It was after she was recovering from being shot. However they end this I hope unless Masher or Coliver get married this is the last we see of babies on this show. I'm a little over sad baby stories. I just know it's the rare 7 mth infant that has a non complicated first year. Unless they are planning a cross over with Grey's Anatomy I can't imagine Laurel's having a positive outcome.

[secnarf]

4 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

I've had my suspicions. At first I thought psych ward because why else call Isaac? He's not a medical doctor. However I agree the room/hallway looks strangely empty for any sort of hospital.

 

I think AK's imaginary baby was 2 season's ago. It was after she was recovering from being shot. However they end this I hope unless Masher or Coliver get married this is the last we see of babies on this show. I'm a little over sad baby stories. I just know it's the rare 7 mth infant that has a non complicated first year. Unless they are planning a cross over with Grey's Anatomy I can't imagine Laurel's having a positive outcome.

It didn't even occur to me that they would call Isaac for reasons related to his job - I just assumed it was something nefarious :P

I definitely don't think they are going to go the NICU route, but they could conceivably have a time jump of ~4 weeks and have the second half of the season start with them out of the NICU with everything perfectly normal. 32 weeks isn't *that* premature.

I was actually initially confused by the whole "where's the baby" thing, because obviously if the baby was just born alive at 32 weeks it is in the NICU, so why won't anyone tell her that? Why aren't they giving her any sort of answer? What's with the silence? And if it turns out the baby died during or shortly after childbirth (or after the ?assault that lead to all the blood in the elevator), ffs at least say *something*. I just didn't quite get what exactly the "mystery" is, because it seems like the baby would be either dead or in a hospital somewhere. But if it is dead and the real mystery is why/how did the baby die, then why don't they just come out and say that? I feel like I'm missing a piece of information that makes this "mystery" a mystery, which is why the premiere really fell flat for me. Compare that to a murder scene that is lacking a body with Annalise missing - now that is a mystery, just not one with a cute hashtag.

I hope that made some sort of sense from my sleep-deprived, drugged-up brain.

[heyitsme87]

Could it be laurel is a threat to everyone because she can blackmail them all into doing  what she wants? Shes  probably going to do that to Michaela eventually.

If she is in a mental hospital in those ending clips,  the play could be to make her appear crazy so she loses credibility.   With the therapist being in the hospital it makes me think he has a hand in it some how.

[Milaxx]

They didn't have a time jump.  Last season Laurel was told she had up until 24 weeks for a late term abortion. this season only 1 mths has transpired. More importantly Laurel herself said she had 5 mths to go which makes her 4 mths pregnant in real time. The flash forward was 3 mth later. Laurel would be 7 mths pregnant.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Milaxx

[Lady Calypso]

One of my first thoughts about the Where's the Baby plot is that maybe Laurel's faking her hysteria. Maybe there's a plan in place to trick Laurel's father, and if Isaac is involved, Frank/Laurel are faking the hysteria because they actually know where the baby is. 

Probably not, but it was a possibility that I thought about. 

But seriously, if the baby isn't in the hospital being treated, it's probably dead. I don't feel confident that a 7 week premature baby can survive without treatment, and since the only doctor character we know is essentially just Meggie and unless they introduce another doctor, I don't think Wes is going to have someone to carry on his family name. 

[DearEvette]

2 hours ago, secnarf said:

Psychiatric units/hospitals really don't look all that different from non-psychiatric units/hospitals, though. It's the emptiness that is strange. It's almost like it's a fake hospital to gaslight her or something.

That was my immediate thought.  The stark whiteness and the emptiness is just not right.  It is not soothing for either expectant mothers or people with mental illness.  Don;t they usually decorate in soft colors, pastels?  It almost seems like they've stashed her somewhere.  So for now my very, very loose working theory is she lost the baby, somehow her father is involved , she had some sort of mental break or she did something really dangerous and Ana & Co. have hidden her from her father for... reasons.

Even though I was kinda relieved in the last ep when she revealed that her abortion story was a lie, I can't really reconcile this show letting one of these characters have and keep a baby. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by DearEvette

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, Milaxx said:

They didn't have a time jump.  Last season Laurel was told she had up until 24 weeks for a late term abortion. this season only 1 mths has transpired. More importantly Laurel herself said she had 5 mths to go which makes her 4 mths pregnant in real time. The flash forward was 3 mth later. Laurel would be 7 mths pregnant.

Sorry I meant they could do a time jump afterwards - between the two halves of the season - to skip over the baby's NICU stay.

Although, like everybody else, I highly doubt this baby is going to become a living character on this show. I'd say adoption or Laurel leaving the show to raise her baby are both highly optimistic options for this particular show, so I am fully expecting this baby to die one way or another. But the time jump comment was in response to the comment about how this show won't show a complicated first year of life for the baby. I agree, but realistically for a 32-weeker you are looking at a 4-6 week NICU stay unless there are additional complications (beyond just prematurity). It wouldn't be hard to do a two-month time jump after the baby is born, if that is what the writers decide to do.

[Star Aristille]

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 9:10 PM, Lady Calypso said:

In other news, Simon's still a dick.

I guess I'm in a very, very tiny minority that actually likes and enjoys Simon quite a bit.  He makes an excellent foil to the K4, I think, and when it comes right down to it, a lot of what he says about them isn't necessarily wrong or untrue.  I think it's wrong to get mad at him for speaking the truth about them.

Plus, he showed at Wes's funeral last season that he isn't completely without compassion or sympathy, so that's something redeemable about him.

So . . . yeah, whatever.  I don't mind the guy, and the actor's good, so that helps.

[darkestboy]

I really liked that episode. Jasmine's story was a bit cliched but it worked pretty well and I liked how it tied into Annalise and her therapist's session as well as the callbacks to Sam as well.

The flash forward stuff though - both Laurel's baby and Annalise are gone? Is Laurel's father involved in this or will it be someone else?

Both Bonnie and Nate working together has some potential. Liked Frank helping out Annalise out this week though.

Really enjoyed Michaela standing up for Asher and annihilating Simon like that and I loved the Connor/Laurel/Oliver scenes this week too, 7/10

[LaJefaza]

10 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

I think it's wrong to get mad at him for speaking the truth about them.

There certainly isn't anything wrong with having negative opinions about people, Simon's well within his rights to dislike anyone he wishes. What he doesn't have the right to do is seek them out and step to them with the express purpose of antagonizing them. THAT's why people don't like him. He consistently comes for people who haven't sent for him. He just butts into private conversations and makes slick comments and is perturbed when people snap at him. He can't be surprised when he gets back the negativity he puts out. He's an immature douche.

On an unrelated note, ol' girl who was giving Annalise a hard time at the DA's office about finding her client's files, saying Annalise had to go to back to the floor she just came from, and then after Nate spoke to her, proceeded to produce the requested files from five feet away in LESS THAN TWO MINUTES? And THEN fixes her mouth to ask if Annalise and Nate are still together?... Side-eye and eyeroll to you, ma'am.

Why is there always a jerk like that in public offices? I mean, DAMN.

[April Bloodgate]

17 hours ago, DearEvette said:

That was my immediate thought.  The stark whiteness and the emptiness is just not right.  It is not soothing for either expectant mothers or people with mental illness.  Don;t they usually decorate in soft colors, pastels?  It almost seems like they've stashed her somewhere.  So for now my very, very loose working theory is she lost the baby, somehow her father is involved , she had some sort of mental break or she did something really dangerous and Ana & Co. have hidden her from her father for... reasons.

Even though I was kinda relieved in the last ep when she revealed that her abortion story was a lie, I can't really reconcile this show letting one of these characters have and keep a baby. 

Any chance this is the empty building that Frank showed Bonnie as a potential office last ep?

[Star Aristille]

1 hour ago, LaJefaza said:

There certainly isn't anything wrong with having negative opinions about people, Simon's well within his rights to dislike anyone he wishes. What he doesn't have the right to do is seek them out and step to them with the express purpose of antagonizing them. THAT's why people don't like him. He consistently comes for people who haven't sent for him. He just butts into private conversations and makes slick comments and is perturbed when people snap at him. He can't be surprised when he gets back the negativity he puts out. He's an immature douche.

Well, sorry, but I still like him, because again . . . he speaks the truth about them.  I'm not bothered by what he does.  They brought it on themselves with what they've done over the first two seasons.  If nothing else, I sort of see Simon as their karma for their crimes since they're not getting the arrests they certainly deserve.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, April Bloodgate said:

Any chance this is the empty building that Frank showed Bonnie as a potential office last ep?

Oh....oh, that's a strong possibility. Once again, never even thought of this option.

28 minutes ago, Star Aristille said:

Well, sorry, but I still like him, because again . . . he speaks the truth about them.  I'm not bothered by what he does.  They brought it on themselves with what they've done over the first two seasons.  If nothing else, I sort of see Simon as their karma for their crimes since they're not getting the arrests they certainly deserve.

Simon isn't the worst character on the show, but what bothers me about him is the unnecessary snide and cruel comments he makes, much like the rest of them. He really would it in well with the Keating 4, that's for sure. For example, his snide comment toward Asher about "hanging" on his father's legacy, or something along those lines, wasn't called for. Much like Connor's cruel remarks about Wes last season were uncalled for, like Laurel's comment toward Connor asking him to kill himself in last season's finale was uncalled for. But for Simon, it's clear his intentions to say these cruel things stem from his jealousy and envy that he wasn't part of the Keating 5 that bugs. Eh, the actor's good at making me annoyed at Simon, though I don't outright hate him because they're all just as bad, if not worse than, Simon. 

[LaJefaza]

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

But for Simon, it's clear his intentions to say these cruel things stem from his jealousy and envy that he wasn't part of the Keating 5 that bugs.

I totally agree with this. If he had actually been good enough to be picked to be part of the K5 in the first place, I have no doubt he would have gone along with everything just like they did, and covered his own ass just like the rest of them. But he wasn't, and is still butthurt about it two years later, and pops up regularly to remind everyone why he was too much of an idiot to be considered by Annalise in the first place. Simon knows that if it wasn't for everything that happened to them, they would STILL be kicking his ass in class and his grades would never be higher than theirs. He's petty and insecure.

[Star Aristille]

19 minutes ago, LaJefaza said:

I totally agree with this. If he had actually been good enough to be picked to be part of the K5 in the first place, I have no doubt he would have gone along with everything just like they did, and covered his own ass just like the rest of them. But he wasn't, and is still butthurt about it two years later, and pops up regularly to remind everyone why he was too much of an idiot to be considered by Annalise in the first place. Simon knows that if it wasn't for everything that happened to them, they would STILL be kicking his ass in class and his grades would never be higher than theirs. He's petty and insecure.

Meh.  If any of them were well worth their salt, they'd have been kicking his ass in class regardless of what happened to them.