S04.E01: I'm Going Away

[harmfulhazards]

I don't think that it will be of any significance either. The opportunity of a dramatic scene where Laurel's father learns that she knows is too good to pass up. I was merely pointing out that from that it would be realistic. Not that the show cares about realism.

[darkestboy]

Something of a subdued opener compared to the ones we're used but I did like it though.

The missing baby route is interesting enough, knew Laurel was lying to her father about having an abortion but whether he's behind it or not, it's hard to determine.

Annalise's scenes with her family were great to watch but the near hook up thing just felt like padding though.

The dinner scene was brutal but kind of expected as well though. Saying that, clearly the gang will reunite sooner than later though.

Some good moments with Connor/Oliver, Michaela/Asher and Bonnie/Frank in this one too, 7/10

[Lady Calypso]

I agree that this was definitely more subdued. A lot of time was spent on Annalise and her mother, which is fine if it's a rare thing. I do like the Keating 4 and definitely don't want them underused, even if it's for the brilliance of Cicely and Viola. 

You see, they want the mystery to be more the where, rather than the who, but my first question is more Who Took The Baby. If they can answer that question by next episode, then they can play with the Where easily. 

Count me as one of those who don't like Connor's haircut. His buzz cut and lack of facial hair threw me off; he looks different and odd. I think I got too used to his boyish look. Charlie Weber pulled off the buzz cut when he did it last season. Jack Falahee? Not so much for me. That being said, I liked that Connor/Oliver are a little more subdued in this premiere. They actually communicated like adults! 

Michaela/Asher still work for me to an extent, but I think I need to see the serious side to Asher more. Sometimes, it confuses me as to why Michaela is still with him when he constantly makes inappropriate comments. Personally, I also think both characters aren't used enough so I'd like to see more of them as individuals. 

We're getting a lot of Laurel this season, I imagine. She's basically the new Wes. I do find it nice that she has her suspicions that her childhood friend killed Wes by her dad's order. I kind of like that, because it doesn't happen often on TV. But I assume, by lying to her father about getting an abortion, that he's in the front running for taking Laurel's baby. I mean, can she really hide her pregnancy from him? It's only a smart plan if he doesn't come to visit for the next five months. And seeing as her child would be two months premature when it's born, I can't imagine the baby living for long outside of the hospital.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Glad the show and our merry gang of murder-covering-up maniacs is back. But all the time-shifting is starting to annoy me bit. Trying to keep all the timelines straight nearly makes me dizzy.

Quote

Esai Morales AND Jimmy Smits.  Be still my heart❤️❤️❤️

IKR? Ditto comments upthread, I'm wondering if/hoping Jimmy's character will be Annalise's new love interest. It appears though that he may be working for Laurel's dad so it'd probably be bad news for Anna.

Quote

The guy Annalise met on the plane and then in the hotel was Viola's IRL husband.  Knowing that, I felt a little weird watching them try to get it on at the hotel.

I knew that guy seemed familiar! Now I recognize him from their red carpet appearances. Didn't care for their scenes though. IMO few real life couples can pull that off without it coming across as gimmicky and their acting seeming self-conscious. 

[blackwing]

Next year's Emmy for Guest Actress in a Drama should be a battle between two powerhouse women who haven't won for these roles.  The incomparable Cicely Tyson who was just amazing and heart wrenching this episode, vs the legendary Dame Diana Rigg who won her death scene as the Queen of Thorns.  Hope one of these two get it.

Can't say enough about how incredible Cicely Tyson is.  

I don't like Annalise but I am continually amazed at Viola Davis.  She consistently brings her A+ game every week.  As far as I'm concerned, she should be the one with umpteen straight Emmys for the same role, not Julia Louis-Dreyfus.  Not sure if drama categories are that much more competitive than comedy, or if Julia really is that much better than the other comedy actresses.  

Love Michaela, like Asher and Connor and Oliver.  But I realised when watching that I just couldn't give two shits about Laurel.  Have never liked her, but my dislike for Wes was always greater.  Now Wes is gone and she seems to be swallowing the show.  I don't care about her, her baby, her dad, anything to do with her.

Dont really care that much about Bonnie either.

[Happytobehere]

I love Cicely Tyson.  SHe continues to amaze.  Annalise’s father continues to be a crappy person.

I still hate Connor and would have preferred he was killed.  He remains awful.

I’ll try cause I love Viola and have surprisingly come to love the two characters I liked the least when the show started, Frank and Bonnie.  However, absent Wes to balance out these insipid characters, I don’t know if I will be able to stick with the show.

I’m disappointed the Benito Martinez’s DA is back.  I literally hate his face at this point.

Something is definitely up with the Jimmy Smits character.  You don’t cast an actor like Smits for him to simply play the shoulder to cry on.  Although, House did just that with it casting of Andre Braugher.  The show got me all hype for him and then the show did nothing with his character.

I guess we have seen the last of Lauren Velez’s character.

Hopefully the asshat law student will not be returning this season.

[teenj12]

11 hours ago, blackwing said:

Love Michaela, like Asher and Connor and Oliver.  But I realised when watching that I just couldn't give two shits about Laurel.  Have never liked her, but my dislike for Wes was always greater.  Now Wes is gone and she seems to be swallowing the show.  I don't care about her, her baby, her dad, anything to do with her.

Ya know, this is something I noticed too. Laurel seems to have quietly become the main lead of the students now, especially with Wes being dead. I think this actually started sometime in S2 (around the time she and Wes got really, really close).  Not that I mind, cause I actually do like Laurel. But, I guess who you find interesting is subjective.

Speaking on the episode, I think everyone else about summed it up:

• Unusually quiet premiere, but surprisingly more compelling than it seemed at first glance.
• Connor needs his hair back. Yikes.
• Michaela slayed that dress.
• AK's almost one night stand was awk af.
• Cicely Tyson is everything <333
• The departure happening between AK and the Keating 4 was a nice curveball, but her sliding Bonnie a letter too was a goddamn twist!

Edited October 1, 2017 by teenj12

[pennben]

So, the Scooby Crew has been pissed that they were stuck with Annalise and have wanted nothing more than to get away from her.

Except, now they are pissed that Annalise set them free and she told them to get away from her!

Oh, Scooby Crew, get a grip!!!!!

[heyitsme87]

Not the premiere I was expecting.  Pretty dull development wise.  It took me a good five minutes to believe Connor hadn't been replaced.  His hair cut is gawd awful!  He looks gaunt too.  I don't care about Analiese's family and skipped alot of it.  It will be interesting to see how this season plays out with everyone going separate ways.  Don't know how much I'll care about Laurel's missing baby though. 

[Dee]

On 9/29/2017 at 8:58 PM, shksabelle said:

Esai Morales AND Jimmy Smits.  Be still my heart❤️❤️❤️

AND Nicholas Gonzalez! It's the latin trifecta of hotness!

[SunnyBeBe]

I was pleasantly surprised to see the new episode for this season.  This show can wear you down and really get on your nerves, but, I feel a little refreshed and ready to start anew.  

What I am still weary of is Oliver and Connor.....please....enough already.  Too much banter, mind games, BS, enough already.

Why did Laurel even mention a pregnancy to her dad?  I mean, why say that she had an abortion? Why not just keep zipped about it?  That might have put a bug in her dad's ear to check up on her....just to be sure that she's not lying.....she is pretty gullible.  AND do we know for sure that it's Wes and not FRANK's baby?  Whoever is the dad, I hope that the child is taken to a safe place and away from that group.  As mentioned upthread, that place is no place for children.  So, IMO, Laurel leave the show with the baby or stay without it.

LOVED seeming Schmitz.  I hope he doesn't disappoint.  His tv characters haven't been that great over the last few years.  He was abused on Sons of Anarchy.  I hope to see better for him this time around

Is that apt that Analise rented the same one that Wes used to live in? Why does it look familiar?

Edited October 1, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[helenamonster]

14 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

Hopefully the asshat law student will not be returning this season.

He was in the preview for the next episode. I don't know why they keep him around. He serves absolutely no purpose.

[skotnikov]

They really should decide if this is a "serious" social drama about an Afro-American lawyer now, or "This is us" kind of thing, or a prime-time soap about Italian mafia. It's terribly far away from the fun-ride-mystery it was in a first season, so I totally understand why people don't want to watch it anymore. And I personally had enough hardcore stuff like Alzheimer in the real life (I live near retirement home), so I don't  really want to see it on my TV, especially knowing  that it's just for another Emmy-nomination.  

Besides for the season's first episode it was horribly slow paced.  

Edited October 1, 2017 by skotnikov

[Milaxx]

16 hours ago, pennben said:

So, the Scooby Crew has been pissed that they were stuck with Annalise and have wanted nothing more than to get away from her.

Except, now they are pissed that Annalise set them free and she told them to get away from her!

Oh, Scooby Crew, get a grip!!!!!

I think Micheala summed it up. Letting them go now does them no favors because thanks to the shenanigans they'd done with and for her their grades suck. They are literally the bottom 4 of the class rankings. In season 1 Micheala and Connor was supposedly the smart ones. They were the only 2 of the K5 chosen without ulterior motives. Not only have they suffered academically, they are also the social pariahs of their class. So if AK doesn't want them, who else will?  So AK isn't really doing them any favors, although I think she believes she is. 

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

.....

Is that apt that Analise rented the same one that Wes used to live in? Why does it look familiar?

I think it looks familiar because they are probably just reusing the old house set repurposed into a 1 bedroom apt. Laurel has moved into Wes's old apartment.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I really don't think Laurel is pregnant. I don't know if she miscarried or had an abortion. (my guess is miscarriage). Either way I think she's gone off the deep in her grief and trauma and may be experiencing and hysterical pregnancy. I'm also wondering if  what we are seeing in the 3 mths later scene  is a final mental break down or a set up by her dad. When Dominic killed Wes, he injected something into his neck. When Frank brings Jimmy Smits into see Laurel we hear the nurse say something about finding drugs in her system. So maybe they gave her something that would land her in the pysch ward & Frank gets AK's new shrink to get her out or help. I guess this qualifies as my first crackpot theory of the season.

I found the AK home scenes engaging.  I adore Ms Tyson and Ms Davis's chemistry together. However I don't think the show is simply taking advantage of an opportunity to show off these ladies acting chops. I think it's to show AK is trying to heal and grow. AK has 3 reactions to stressful situations; she runs away, sexes it way or drinks it away. When we first meet her mother AK had been estranged for many years. Her own mother didn't know she had been pregnant and had a child who was stillborn. She had run from the sexual abuse and belief that her parents knew and said/did nothing. She had also run from her feeling for Eve into a relationship with Sam. She tried to sex away the fact that her marriage was/had died by having and affair with Nate. On top of it all she began drinking it away by turning to alcohol to self medicate more and more. When Mama came to visit in season 1 may have been the first time they ever talked about her childhood sexual abuse. Mama let her know she killed Clyde because of it. This was likely the mending of her bond with her mother. Even though I still find her dad to be trash, his finally apologizing for not listening to her when she tried to tell him about Clyde may be help AK comes to terms with her childhood and heal. I think that's the point of the home scenes. Perhaps AK got enough clarity to come home and try to put her house in order. To her that means getting her fighting disbarment honestly instead of  with yet another scheme or lie, taking therapy seriously and letting go of those who lives she feels she damaged due to their association with her.  Besides this show doesn't stay quiet for long so a quiet opening doesn't bother me.

 

I'm also wondering if her husband will pop back up later on.  He might end up being one of those harmless but still useless characters like Simon, Thomas . Dean Hargrove or Meggy.

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, Milaxx said:

Besides this show doesn't stay quiet for long so a quiet opening doesn't bother me.

 

As unrealistic as we often complain that the show is,for once, I think the opening makes a lot of sense.  Every single person in Analise' circle spent the last couple years murdering, being accessories to murder and/or covering up the murder of multiple people: Sam, Rebecca, DA Smugface, Wes shot Annalise, Asher's father died, Frank killed Bonnie's father,  Frank killed Wes' grandfather, Michaela's lover killed himself, and they all had to deal with Wes' death.   Added to that, Ana's reputation is in the toilet as is their grades. 

If the show had plunged them right smack into another murder/cover-up I would really need to question these people's mental stability even more than I already am or decide whether or not they are actual serial killers.  So I think it is smart of the show to step back and let them breathe a bit from all that.  We know this isn't going to last, but for the opening it works.  If this is the route they need to take for Ana to stop being this sad, lonely, alcoholic that she is and become in reality the fierce warrior Michaela believes her to be then I am all for it.

[possibilities]

In addition to all of that, the scenes with Annalise's family of origin sets up that she needs money. She wants to give her mom access to that expensive "memory care" home. So I suspect at some point that will become a motivation for her to do something less than cautious.

[Milaxx]

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

In addition to all of that, the scenes with Annalise's family of origin sets up that she needs money. She wants to give her mom access to that expensive "memory care" home. So I suspect at some point that will become a motivation for her to do something less than cautious.

I thought her needing money was the motivating factor for  fighting to get her law license back. I also think her father blaming her for her mother's dementia episode was part of the reason she let the K4 (I refuse to call 20 somethings kids) and Bonnie go. He got in her head and made her think everything wrong in their lives is her fault.  I have a feeling this season's shenanigans will be due largely because of Jorge Castillo & the Mahooney's.

[loki567]

I think I'm done with the show. It's reached that point where everything is an unbearable slog for the characters and by extension, the audience. 

Killing Wes was a major blow to the series. Even though I wouldn't classify him as a great character, he still felt like an emotional center for the show and losing him has irrevocably damaged the cast's chemistry. He was the main tie between Annalise and the Keating 5. Without him, I just can't really believe Annalise would go to the trouble to keep this group together. 

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Killing Wes was a major blow to the series. Even though I wouldn't classify him as a great character, he still felt like an emotional center for the show and losing him has irrevocably damaged the cast's chemistry. 

Not for me, because I didn't care much about his relationships with anyone, especially Anna. I actually resented that relationship, every damn thing went back to him first and foremost, even Bonnie knew that and resented it. I'll be done with this show if they don't get back to giving the other characters more personal story lines that last for more than two damn episodes if that much. Yeah, I'm looking at YOU PN and that shitty extremely short-lived job you did with Michaela her mother. 

Finally, I think they made a big mistake focusing on the character of Wes and his relationship with Anna in laying the ground work for this show. I even thought they may have given the show the wrong title. But the title can work as long as the viewers get the sense that it won't solely be the main characters on the show who get away with murder. This way the writers don't have the added pressure of having this small group of main characters always having to be murderers or accessories to murder every season. Anna is in fact a defense attorney, there can be plenty of murderers who she helps get away with murder because she's a brilliant, shady attorney. It's her job to present the best defense even for a known murderer as their lawyer. I mean if the show is not going to be about a bunch of sick  serial killers who take glee in committing murder, and I don't think it was meant to be that show then... These characters I don't think are meant to be that evil nor sick, so you can't have the audience all hyped up rubbing their hands in glee just waiting for which main character this season is going to be able to get away with murder. I think that's what some people are looking for, but I'm not, which is why this slow season premiere was appreciated by this viewer. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[DearEvette]

Yeah, I have to agree.  I love Alfred Enoch and was really sad at Wes' death, but I hated how centered stuff was on him.  And I actively despised him in season one because of his laser focus on useless Rebecca. 

 

2 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Anna is in fact a defense attorney, there can be plenty of murderers who she helps get away with murder because she's a brilliant, shady attorney. It's her job to present the best defense even for a known murderer as their lawyer.

 

I thought this is what the show was going to be about, TBH.  And I hope it gets there.  I like the personal stuff with the characters but all the dark drama becomes exhausting.  At least in the beginning they were actually doing real cases.  I'd even welcome something like the Hapstall case again (minus all the personal insertion that went on with them) where you weren't sure what was true and lots of stuff coming out of the woodwork and Ana using Frank to "create" situations that help their client.

[Milaxx]

3 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Not for me, because I didn't care much about his relationships with anyone, especially Anna. I actually resented that relationship, every damn thing went back to him first and foremost, even Bonnie knew that and resented it. I'll be done with this show if they don't get back to giving the other characters more personal story lines that last for more than two damn episodes if that much. Yeah, I'm looking at YOU PN and that shitty extremely short-lived job you did with Michaela her mother. 

Finally, I think they made a big mistake focusing on the character of Wes and his relationship with Anna in laying the ground work for this show. I even thought they may have given the show the wrong title. But the title can work as long as the viewers get the sense that it won't solely be the main characters on the show who get away with murder. This way the writers don't have the added pressure of having this small group of main characters always having to be murderers or accessories to murder every season. Anna is in fact a defense attorney, there can be plenty of murderers who she helps get away with murder because she's a brilliant, shady attorney. It's her job to present the best defense even for a known murderer as their lawyer. I mean if the show is not going to be about a bunch of sick  serial killers who take glee in committing murder, and I don't think it was meant to be that show then... These characters I don't think are meant to be that evil nor sick, so you can't have the audience all hyped up rubbing their hands in glee just waiting for which main character this season is going to be able to get away with murder. I think that's what some people are looking for, but I'm not, which is why this slow season premiere was appreciated by this viewer. 

ITA- I know for many Wes the emotional center, but TBH I found him the least interesting and compelling character. Especially in season 1 with Rebecca, the only HTGAWM character I truly despised. In fact I am looking forward to this season giving us more cases of the week no that AK has her license back and no immediate plans to return to teacher. I doubt the K4 will stay away from her for long. The things they have been through are the sorts of things they bind people together for life. I just want to see AK in court kicking butt again for a change.

[Aleks]

I am terribly disappointed to be honest. If this season is really about the question where Laurel's baby is, I think there won't be an upcoming season 5 due to the baddest rates ever. I couldn't care less about the baby as well as I am really not interested in the fate of Ophelia. 

In my opinion they released the less interesting episode ever. Ever.

I ABSOLUTELY loved this show all the seasons, but the disappointment started with the end of last season and the clue to all the drama we went through season 3. Laurel's father? Honestly? 

What I am also afraid of: Are they really going to built up all stories around Laurel? I got occasionally really annoyed by Wes and his center role and now Laurel? 

BTW: Am I the only one who's fine with Connors new look? I like the haircut - its absolutely fashionable at the moment and it suits him! Ok, it wasn't necessary to shave, but the haircut is way better than the messy hair he presented at the beginning of season 3. 

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

What I am also afraid of: Are they really going to built up all stories around Laurel? I got occasionally really annoyed by Wes and his center role and now Laurel? 

Yeah, and this isn't even Grey's Anatomy with annoying Meredith Grey and how everything had to circle back to her. Sorry, don't care if her name was in the title of the show, that show had plenty of other characters played by awesome actors whose story lines could stand on their own WITHOUT having to circle back to Meredith Grey. Shonda and Co. never got that so I was out and couldn't wait to stop watching. I bring up Shonda because PN went to her "university" of writing and show running and some of the stuff he learned from dear Shonda he should leave on the cutting room floor. Because while it worked for Shonda since her shows have stayed on air and have had decent ratings, he's NOT Shonda. The recipe may not work in his hands, he better change some of the ingredients. He can start with leaving out trying to push a character down my throat at the expense of the other interesting characters/actors that he has on staff, cut it out. Laurel is being placed several steps ahead of the other Keatings to point of which she looks like she's about to run even with the real lead of the show, Annalise Keating, that's how I see it. She was placed up front from the start of the show in comparison to the rest of the Keatings because they hooked her up with Frank whose character is on Anna's level. I remember because I initially was really into Laurel and Frank and none of the others were really registering with me; but I knew part of that was because the writers weren't giving them anything much and while they were suppose to be the babies, you had one baby playing footsie with adult Frank. But, it wasn't pissing me off back then, like it's starting to now.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Milaxx]

7 hours ago, Aleks said:

.....

What I am also afraid of: Are they really going to built up all stories around Laurel? I got occasionally really annoyed by Wes and his center role and now Laurel? 

BTW: Am I the only one who's fine with Connors new look? I like the haircut - its absolutely fashionable at the moment and it suits him! Ok, it wasn't necessary to shave, but the haircut is way better than the messy hair he presented at the beginning of season 3. 

I really think this season will be about redemption for AK, but I also think it will be very Laurel heavy. 

 

I've gotten used to Connor's look. It's funny, I know he's had this look for a while because I follow him on social media. It was still jarring to see it on screen.  I think in my mind I associated the beard with Connor and not Jack. So it didn't bother me seeing it IRL, but on the show it took a minute.

[jhlipton]

I think Ophelia has dementia but not Alzheimer's.  One of my mom's doctors described the difference as between knowing where you left the keys vs knowing what keys are for.  With Alzheimer's, the person who has it forgets who people are, and Ophelia hasn't done that -- and I'm glad, because that's been somewhat overdone: you see an actor over 70, and know they're going to have Alzheimer's.  The closest Ophelia gets is that she forgets when it is,.

[bantering]

I'm a little annoyed that Laurel now gets to take centre stage.

 

I don't dislike the actress, but I find the character a little irritating. Her "ownership" of Wes is also annoying. Why Frank is still interested in this woman is beyond me. 

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, my issue with Wes had been his prominence in the show. He was definitely the second lead to Annalise, and sometimes more so. He was always present and took over stories that the other Keating 5 could have had instead. Now, Laurel's slipped into that role, with her prominence in the mystery plot (just as Wes had been every single flash-forward/flashback), when there are other characters, such as Michaela, who haven't been explored nearly as well. 

There's just no balance; Laurel is the new Wes, and I also think the actress is the weakest in the cast. Not particularly bad, but just weak. 

[secnarf]

5 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I think Ophelia has dementia but not Alzheimer's.  One of my mom's doctors described the difference as between knowing where you left the keys vs knowing what keys are for.  With Alzheimer's, the person who has it forgets who people are, and Ophelia hasn't done that -- and I'm glad, because that's been somewhat overdone: you see an actor over 70, and know they're going to have Alzheimer's.  The closest Ophelia gets is that she forgets when it is,.

Alzheimer's is a type of dementia and can only be definitively diagnosed by autopsy (although we have developed clinical tools with reasonable accuracy and there are newer imaging techniques being used in clinical trials). If you have Alzheimer's then by definition you have dementia. Think of dementia as an umbrella term that includes a number of different subtypes, of which Alzheimer's is the most widely known. Alzheimer's is progressive - just because Ophelia is still able to identify her family members, that doesn't mean she doesn't have Alzheimer's. It just means that the disease is not in the advanced stage.

Ultimately it really doesn't matter for the person or their family whether or not they have Alzheimer's or another type of dementia. The symptoms are similar and irreversible.

[Milaxx]

3 hours ago, bantering said:

I'm a little annoyed that Laurel now gets to take centre stage.

 

I don't dislike the actress, but I find the character a little irritating. Her "ownership" of Wes is also annoying. Why Frank is still interested in this woman is beyond me. 

This has been my issue since last season. Especially since her and Wes relationship felt a little sudden. Yes, I know they had been close and there was that kiss back in NYC, but in comparison to Masher, it felt less organic. Couple that with her loudly mourning and yeah, it just sucks the air out if the room. Not saying these emotions aren't legit,  just wish the writers would take it don a notch or 10.

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, bantering said:

I'm a little annoyed that Laurel now gets to take centre stage.

 

I don't dislike the actress, but I find the character a little irritating. Her "ownership" of Wes is also annoying. Why Frank is still interested in this woman is beyond me. 

You know, I hadn't thought about this until now, but Wes really does ruin everything.  LOL.  I actually liked Laurel when it looked like she was going to become a female version of Frank.  In the early seasons she was  cold and ruthless and you saw that she had the potential to be the same sort of under-the-table operator that Frank was.  I could easily see why he liked her then.  But then they hooked her up with Wes and I don't think she's stopped crying since.  And my irritation with the character reached an all time high at the end of last season.

I do sincerely hope this season isn't gobbled up by her woes.  I could stand some of the mystery surrounding her and her family if it doesn't come at the expense of the other 3.  If I get to really see Michaela and Asher going into Beast Mode doing Connor also doing his part to get  back to his old self, then I can put up with the Laurel stuff.  I think I did read somewhere that we'll finally learn more about Connor's background so if that happens that would be very welcome.

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, bantering said:

I'm a little annoyed that Laurel now gets to take centre stage.

 

I don't dislike the actress, but I find the character a little irritating. Her "ownership" of Wes is also annoying. Why Frank is still interested in this woman is beyond me. 

She's hot, funny, smart, morally flexible, rich, and would potentially accept him for who he really is.

[Aleks]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

I think I did read somewhere that we'll finally learn more about Connor's background so if that happens that would be very welcome.

We will? If thats true it would be a major ray of hope! Connors family made me curious in season 1 where we met his sister.

Also I would be thankful, if we could get a little of his sneakiness and ruthlessness back. As much as I really love and admire Coliver: I would not care if they'd pepper their relationship with a bit of drama again. 

[Keepitmoving]

Oh, and someone needs to school Michaela, namely Asher, that he's no "white Barack," nor will be become one, at least I hope not. You might get a John Kasich out of him but ....LOL. Doesn't she know he's a Republican? She knows, so she better slow her roll. So cut the shit Pete Nowalk, and don't try to push Asher all the way to the left, some growth toward moderate is enough, which is where he seems to be. Hell, my parents were on opposites sides of the aisle and have been married for over fifty years. Of course neither one was extreme so...that's when it can work.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Milaxx]

5 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I do sincerely hope this season isn't gobbled up by her woes.  I could stand some of the mystery surrounding her and her family if it doesn't come at the expense of the other 3.  If I get to really see Michaela and Asher going into Beast Mode doing Connor also doing his part to get  back to his old self, then I can put up with the Laurel stuff.  I think I did read somewhere that we'll finally learn more about Connor's background so if that happens that would be very welcome.

I think I read that we meet Connor's mother.* (link is sightly spoilery, click at your own risk.)  I wouldn't mind a little bad boy Connor. I even like Oliver trying to break bad and being hopelessly bad at it.

6 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Oh, and someone needs to school Michaela, namely Asher, that he's no "white Barack," nor will be become one, at least I hope not. You might get a John Kasich out of him but ....LOL. Doesn't she know he's a Republican? She knows, so she better show her roll. So cut the shit Pete Nowalk, and don't try to push Asher all the way to the left, some growth toward moderate is enough, which is where he seems to be. Hell, my parents were on opposites sides of the aisle and have been married for over fifty years. Of course neither one was extreme so...that's when it can work.

ITA. I also want to see a little bit more maturity from Asher. I think the writers are struggling with retaining his character's original goofiness and having him grow as a result of being part of the K4. I like that he allows Michaela to be a little silly and less uptight. However I don't want Micheala to be doing all the heavy emotional lifting in the relationship. Asher needs to know when to be grown and when to be silly.

[Star Aristille]

10 hours ago, bantering said:

I don't dislike the actress, but I find the character a little irritating. Her "ownership" of Wes is also annoying.

 

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

You know, I hadn't thought about this until now, but Wes really does ruin everything.  LOL.  I actually liked Laurel when it looked like she was going to become a female version of Frank.  In the early seasons she was  cold and ruthless and you saw that she had the potential to be the same sort of under-the-table operator that Frank was.  I could easily see why he liked her then.  But then they hooked her up with Wes and I don't think she's stopped crying since.  And my irritation with the character reached an all time high at the end of last season.

To me, I don't think she felt "ownership" toward Wes so much as entitlement to him, which was most demonstrated by her pretty much going off on everyone who attended his funeral, thinking she was the only one (possibly other than the rest of the Keating Four) with any right to mourn him.  Guess what, sweetheart?  Wes had friends outside of the main fold, so they did have every right to mourn him, too.

Karla Souza was flawless in that rant, but her "Go cry somewhere else!" tirade really showed just how much Laurel had really, truly lost herself in Wes by that point.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Star Aristille

[truthaboutluv]

12 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Yes, I know they had been close and there was that kiss back in NYC, but in comparison to Masher, it felt less organic.

Funny because much as I didn't care about them either, I found Laurel/Wes' relationship far more organic than Michaela and Asher's, which I still hate and think is forced. Yes, Laurel had her thing with Frank and Wes had his Rebecca obsession but from the very first episode, when Laurel answered the question for Wes when he didn't know the answer, the writers established this inexplicable bond between them.

Laurel was always the one to defend Wes, just agree and go along with whatever stupid idea he had. There's a reason many people were shipping Laurel and Wes from the first season. Asher and Michaela were barely in each other's orbit, other than her being as annoyed with him as everyone else, until they had a drunken hookup that the writers sold as so awesome they kept doing it and then they were suddenly really into each other and now are supposedly madly in love with each other. Sure, I guess. 

Personally, I'll take the writers ending both Michaela and Asher and Connor and Oliver since I can't stand either pairing - one because I still think Michaela and Asher are forced with no chemistry and with Connor and Oliver, last season made me sour on Oliver enough to where now he just annoys me.

Edited October 5, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[bantering]

12 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

She's hot, funny, smart, morally flexible, rich, and would potentially accept him for who he really is.

But it's clear now she'll never love him to the same degree she loved Wes. 

[Lady Calypso]

13 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Personally, I'll take the writers ending both Michaela and Asher and Connor and Oliver since I can't stand either pairing - one because I still think Michaela and Asher are forced with no chemistry and with Connor and Oliver, last season made me sour on Oliver enough to where now he just annoys me.

I agree. The issue I have had with Michaela/Asher is how they've handled it. I need to see why Michaela likes him, because I simply don't get it. I mean, sure, opposites attract, but Asher is too far in the opposite category. His constant comments and jokes he cracks are inappropriate, at best. I don't see why Michaela puts up with his "my woman" comments, especially when they're constant. When Asher's serious, I can see why she might be with him. But those moments are way too rare. 

And yeah, Connor has made his share of mistakes, but Oliver's behaviour all of last season turned me off on him. At this point, I'd love for one of the flashforward mysteries to be Oliver dead. Maybe Oliver and Laurel's deaths together can be a flashforward at some point. 

[secnarf]

7 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

And yeah, Connor has made his share of mistakes, but Oliver's behaviour all of last season turned me off on him. At this point, I'd love for one of the flashforward mysteries to be Oliver dead. Maybe Oliver and Laurel's deaths together can be a flashforward at some point. 

YES to Oliver, but I still like Laurel :P

I am really surprised though with how much they made me hate Oliver, who was initially the most likeable character for me.

[Milaxx]

Can't say there is anyone on the current cast I actually dislike.  So far my only gripe is that Laurel's storyline is too all encompassing. She's annoyed me ever since she went full on weeping widow last season. On the other hand crazy Laurel might be interesting. 

[secnarf]

2 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Can't say there is anyone on the current cast I actually dislike.  So far my only gripe is that Laurel's storyline is too all encompassing. She's annoyed me ever since she went full on weeping widow last season. On the other hand crazy Laurel might be interesting. 

Oh, I like the *cast*. Conrad Ricamora is great. It's what they have done with his character that I hate.

[Milaxx]

I like Oliver. I hated that he deleted Connor's Stanford acceptance, but I like his character. It was time for Connor to stop lying to him. I am also happy they didn't try to get married. Time will tell if the relationship can last now that everything is out in the open.  The only character I've hate was Rebecca.

[Star Aristille]

I must be the only one who doesn't want Connor and Oliver to stay together.  I must be.  They broke up for pretty much the right reasons last season, and then, they're back together after sleeping together one time, with seemingly none of their issues resolved, and we're supposed to be happy about it?  Yeah. . . . No, thanks.  Not until they do resolve the issues.

[Milaxx]

14 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

I must be the only one who doesn't want Connor and Oliver to stay together.  I must be.  They broke up for pretty much the right reasons last season, and then, they're back together after sleeping together one time, with seemingly none of their issues resolved, and we're supposed to be happy about it?  Yeah. . . . No, thanks.  Not until they do resolve the issues.

They broke up because Connor was lying to Oliver about pretty much everything from Sam's murder on.  Oliver sensed that. Once Oliver knew the truth, that lie was gone. What other issues were there? Hell, they even had a grownup conversation about whether or not to get married. They also slept together more than one time. 

[Chas411]

Just watching this now, the scene between Annalise and her father where he spologises to her about Clyde moved me. The actor really sold it.

 

I miss the days where the show didn't revolve around Laurel.