S07.E03: Neighbors from Hell

[TexasGal]

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

I got a kick out of Adina Porter's character, because the way they had her character's name listed and the way she said it made it seem like her full name was Beverly Hope Reporting--not Beverly Hope, Reporting.

Anyway, if the psychiatrist isn't in on it it's the biggest red herring ever.

I thought it was funny that she is a reporter, because while I love her, she does not speak at all in the way that I'm used to hear tv news reporters speak.  They usually have that very clipped, enunciated way of speaking.  And as I type this I think it would have been awesome for them to cast someone of Hispanic background  for the reporter so they could do the "no discernible accent HEAVILY ACCENTED PRONUNCIATION OF NAME no discernible accent" thing that I find hilarious.

[Princess Sparkle]

I laughed for a ridiculously long time at "I'm worried Sonja Morgan has a drinking problem." It's not often two of my guilty pleasures meet up, but when they do, it's perfection (see also: Sarah Paulson meeting Dorinda on WWHL)

[Cheyanne11]

35 minutes ago, DollEyes said:

Still digging this season. Definitely not feeling sorry for Ally. She may have technically gotten away with murder because of the "Stand Your Ground" law, but an innocent man is still dead because of her. It's a wonder that no one has burned down Ally & Ivy's house and/or the restaurant yet.  While Ally is right that someone putting cameras in their house and invading the family's privacy is the bigger sin, her being caught cheating with Winter doesn't help.

Ally is definitely not making it easy to feel for her.  I do side-eye where there was no blow-back on the "where'd you get that gun?" from, but I guess that goes hand-in-hand with the whole protesting angle, making her feel more isolated/hated.  

But, yeah, Ally: just because you're being gaslit doesn't mean you're not an asshole.  They're not mutually exclusive.

[Madding crowd]

Still liking this but felt this episode was a little repetitive. I think it is so annoying that Ally and Ivy do not keep a closer eye on Ozy, even letting him out of their site when a brutal crime has been committed across the street and their own house was marked. Also, since Winter was drugged during the bathtub incident, I don't think she was interested in cheating but I do wonder why she wouldn't insist on Winter not being rehired. On top of that, Winter does not have a sweet personality and Ozy has been nothing but scared since her arrival. And kids can be secretive,but I don't buy Ozy not saying a word about Winter making him look at murders on video.

I was hoping Ally would be smart enough to film the gas trucks rolling through the neighborhood and she couldn't be the only person to see them coming down the street. I did think the coffin scenes at the beginning were good and like I always tell my son-never tell anyone what you fear. It seems obvious the therapist is in on it, either that or he is a grown man who colllects smiley buttons.

I still think Ivy is involved, only because she is always one step behind, out of the room, or somewhere else when things happen. I was happy she actually was with Ally when during the pet microwave, and discovering the paint on their house. I'm not sure Ally is a bad person-she has had two incidents with evil looking clowns confronting her, even in the backseat of her car, found a dead body in her restaurant, was drugged by the babysittter and may be drugged by the therapist. She is the last person who should have a gun, but I don't think she is a bad person. 

I have no idea why/how Ally and her family were targeted, but if it turns out solely because voted for Jill Stein I will throw something at my tv. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Madding crowd

[GoneGirl]

18 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Still liking this but felt this episode was a little repetitive. I think it is so annoying that Ally and Ivy do not keep a closer eye on Ozy, even letting him out of their site when a brutal crime has been committed across the street and their own house was marked. Also, since Winter was drugged during the bathtub incident, I don't think she was interested in cheating but I do wonder why she wouldn't insist on Winter not being rehired. On top of that, Winter does not have a sweet personality and Ozy has been nothing but scared since her arrival. And kids can be secretive,but I don't buy Ozy not saying a word about Winter making him look at murders on video.

I was hoping Ally would be smart enough to film the gas trucks rolling through the neighborhood and she couldn't be the only person to see them coming down the street. I did think the coffin scenes at the beginning were good and like I always tell my son-never tell anyone what you fear. It seems obvious the therapist is in on it, either that or he is a grown man who colllects smiley buttons.

I still think Ivy is involved, only because she is always one step behind, out of the room, or somewhere else when things happen. I was happy she actually was with Ally when during the pet microwave, and discovering the paint on their house. I'm not sure Ally is a bad person-she has had two incidents with evil looking clowns confronting her, even in the backseat of her car, found a dead body in her restaurant, was drugged by the babysittter and may be drugged by the therapist. She is the last person who should have a gun, but I don't think she is a bad person. 

I have no idea why/how Ally and her family were targeted, but if it turns out solely because voted for Jill Stein I will throw something at my tv. 

I'm not fully onboard with the fact that Ally was drugged during her bathtub soak with Winnie. She had a glass of wine and just looked relaxed to me. Also made me think of her soak in the tub outside in Roanoke;)

Edited September 20, 2017 by GoneGirl
Typo

[Cheyanne11]

24 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I was hoping Ally would be smart enough to film the gas trucks rolling through the neighborhood and she couldn't be the only person to see them coming down the street. I did think the coffin scenes at the beginning were good and like I always tell my son-never tell anyone what you fear. It seems obvious the therapist is in on it, either that or he is a grown man who colllects smiley buttons.

I still think Ivy is involved, only because she is always one step behind, out of the room, or somewhere else when things happen. I was happy she actually was with Ally when during the pet microwave, and discovering the paint on their house. I'm not sure Ally is a bad person-she has had two incidents with evil looking clowns confronting her, even in the backseat of her car, found a dead body in her restaurant, was drugged by the babysittter and may be drugged by the therapist. She is the last person who should have a gun, but I don't think she is a bad person. 

I have no idea why/how Ally and her family were targeted, but if it turns out solely because voted for Jill Stein I will throw something at my tv. 

Ivy also saw the chemical trucks, so at least Ally has backup on some of the crazy shit that's happening.  

[Lithogirl]

I think I'm the only viewer not enjoying this season. This may be the first season I actually give up. I can't stand SP's character, and tbh I don't care about any of the other characters. So far the show is just not very good, imo.

[JennyMominFL]

12 hours ago, vb68 said:

 

There were some real funny lines in this one to ease some of the tension with the Taco Bell coupons and the line about someone having a drinking problem onRreal Housewives.  Memo though that Kai doesn't like his time being wasted or played for a fool.  He's still giving me Joker-ish vibes. But I think the shrink is the puppet master.

 

"I'm concerned that Sonja Morgan on the RHONY has a drinking problem.". Girl, we all are.

[Chaos Theory]

On a purely superficial level (and because I am rewatching Murder House because Netflix is probably losing the series next month) Evan Peters has grown up nicely.  Despite the ugly bun he is a handsome man and I don't usually go in that direction but his smile might make me put him in my exception pile.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[luna1122]

19 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

On a purely superficial level (and because I am rewatching Murder House because Netflix is probably losing the series next month) Evan Peters has grown up nicely.  Despite the ugly bun he is a handsome man and I don't usually go in that direction but his smile might make me put him in my exception pile.

He's beautiful. He might be on my laminated list.

[ShadowHunter]

2 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

He's beautiful. He might be on my laminated list.

Hey, we all have to share him lolol.

I think Kia is already more evil then Tate and Mr.March or at least he will pass them before the season is over.

[ClareWalks]

I know it's usually an autocorrect issue, but reading "Kia" throws me off every time, LOL! It does make him way less creepy, though, so there's that :)

[Chaos Theory]

43 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

I know it's usually an autocorrect issue, but reading "Kia" throws me off every time, LOL! It does make him way less creepy, though, so there's that :)

Well at least he's a pretty car.  Pretty pretty car.  

Edited September 20, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Florinaldo]

21 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Why is everyone confessing to Kai of all people?

He expresses himself with absolute confidence in the correctness of his pronouncements, which is a draw for many people. Just as in real life human like rituals; his pinky truth-telling is no sillier than most of the rituals used in religious ceremonies and events, or by motivational speakers and in team-building workshops. They give people a sense of belonging to something bigger and better.

Many charismatic religious preachers or self-help gurus are really no less creepier than Kai.

I think that is a very pointed and relevant touch by the show.

21 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

She got away with killing her mexican employee because of the stand your ground law

Not only that but Ivy was very quick to agree this was in self-defense, with no mention of the fact that she sent Pedro to the house so he was not there to do harm as the cop assumed (surely someone else at the restaurant would testify to that), despite him being a "person of interest" in the other investigation; also, no mention of the box of supplies he was carrying. Perhaps the clowns took it away.  ;-)

How easy for those two liberal characters to turn on the Latino and ruin his  reputation when it suits their interests (they may rationalise it by saying that he's dead anyway).

And how naive for Ally to think that she can reason with "her people"; has she not seen repeatedly that in such circumstances the pack mentality takes over, on both sides of the ideological divide, and that people stop thinking like individuals? Dialogue becomes impossible against the groupthink. Again, well observed by RM and his writers.

I can understand Ally being fascinated and perhaps even drawn to Kai because he projects strength and certainty, but I hope they do not go the route of "he turns the lesbian around and "repairs" her".

The season is still young, so it may be early to conclude that the therapist is in on the cult/conspiracy. There is still ample time for a bait-and-switch: for example, him also being used or manipulated, someone having breached the files of his patients. And why not a double bait-and-switch: after being cleared and becoming the lone trusted ally to the two women, wham!, it turns out he really was behind it all along.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Florinaldo

[GoneGirl]

2 hours ago, luna1122 said:

He's beautiful. He might be on my laminated list.

Yes, yes, yes, yes!!!!

[Anela]

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

On a purely superficial level (and because I am rewatching Murder House because Netflix is probably losing the series next month) Evan Peters has grown up nicely.  Despite the ugly bun he is a handsome man and I don't usually go in that direction but his smile might make me put him in my exception pile.

I'll have to watch again, before they lose it. I've never re-watched the other seasons, but I watch Murder House every year. 

[queenanne]

10 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I've thought that the psychiatrist has been in on it since the first episode. Ally detailed her fears to him in a way that I'm not sure that she's done with Ivy. I think that Ivy is in on it as well but I think it's because of the psychiatrist that the cult knows the super specific fears that she has so that they've been able to exploit them. 

What I'm unsure of is who the true cult leader is. Is it Kai or is it the psychiatrist? Or maybe some other character altogether and they're just in the cult. I wouldn't be surprised if Kai learned his finger technique from the psychiatrist. 

I'm also curious as to how many people are in this cult. Were the protesters who parted for Kai members of the cult or did he just pay them to be there and follow his instructions? 

The couple who were buried alive in the beginning--who else would know about that specific fear of the woman's other than the psychiatrist? 

Well, Kai might know her fear, if the blonde coffin woman is (was) one of his acolytes. It seems to be a standard part of his interview spiel.

[Chaos Theory]

I am not going to play the "Who's in on it game"  all that hard.  I think it kind of ruins the fun.  At least for me.  There are some obvious choices of course.   The shrink is involved directly or indirectly.   The cop is involved directly or indirectly.   I don't think Ivy is anymore.   I think she is just tired of Ally's shit.  If she is involved then she must have gone to Kai and he played that pinky game with her and she must have told him how tired she was of knuckling under to Ally's phobias and Kai would have been intrigued by that.  Other then that I don't think she is involved. 

What interests me about this season is how everyone is miscommunicating with everyone else.   I think that is the true horror.  The danger we all face when we don't talk to each other.  When we can't talk to each other.  When we won't talk to each other.  The violence it causes.   Its turning Ally into a monster.  (Yet I am in the seemingly unpopular opinion that I do still feel for her because I do see where she is coming from.  I don't agree with her and I think she has zero insight but I do feel for her.)  I fight her spiral intriguing.

I also find Kai to be intriguing as well.  What is his connection to the murder clowns and the glowly truck?  Is there a connection or is it all one big coincidence.  Is Kai just taking advantage of people at their weakest moments and a serial killer.   Hell I wouldn't be surprised if the murder clowns turn out to be Ally.  There are no murder clowns just Ally being crazy and that is why Kai is so intrigued by her.    

[Avaleigh]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am not going to play the "Who's in on it game"  all that hard.  I think it kind of ruins the fun.  At least for me.  There are some obvious choices of course.   The shrink is involved directly or indirectly.   The cop is involved directly or indirectly.   I don't think Ivy is anymore.   I think she is just tired of Ally's shit.  If she is involved then she must have gone to Kai and he played that pinky game with her and she must have told him how tired she was of knuckling under to Ally's phobias and Kai would have been intrigued by that.  Other then that I don't think she is involved. 

What interests me about this season is how everyone is miscommunicating with everyone else.   I think that is the true horror.  The danger we all face when we don't talk to each other.  When we can't talk to each other.  When we won't talk to each other.  The violence it causes.   Its turning Ally into a monster.  (Yet I am in the seemingly unpopular opinion that I do still feel for her because I do see where she is coming from.  I don't agree with her and I think she has zero insight but I do feel for her.)  I fight her spiral intriguing.

I also find Kai to be intriguing as well.  What is his connection to the murder clowns and the glowly truck?  Is there a connection or is it all one big coincidence.  Is Kai just taking advantage of people at their weakest moments and a serial killer.   Hell I wouldn't be surprised if the murder clowns turn out to be Ally.  There are no murder clowns just Ally being crazy and that is why Kai is so intrigued by her.    

You don't think it's strange that Ivy made the password 'clownz'? 

The kid sees the clowns too though so it isn't just Ally. The two couples saw the clowns too before they were murdered. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Avaleigh

[Madding crowd]

I think having Clownz as a password is very odd. I don't think Ally imagined the clowns or is somehow one of them. If she were one of them we wouldn't be seeing her frightened of them. I still think Ivy is involved, the psychiatrist is involved and the neighbors are involved too. One of the messages this season is about fear: controlling your fear and controlling others through fear. I agree we need to move on with the scenes of Ally crying and screaming-it is becoming less effective. I am wondering about Kai and how people are finding him and joining up with him. He is obviously posting videos and the like, but he still seems very localized and small potatoes. For example, I cannot imagine Kai having the money to buy or rent the huge gas trucks-something like that takes a lot of money. I think it is interesting to talk about theories regarding he show-the last couple of seasons I didn't do that too much. I enjoyed Roanoke but didn't find a lot of mystery elements that I could wonder about. 

[queenanne]

11 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I think having Clownz as a password is very odd. 

Yeah, it isn't even good by password standards, so odd that she would choose it unless she enjoys exploiting, dwelling upon, or thinking about Ally being scared every time she types it.

[Fusion]

8 hours ago, GoneGirl said:

I'm not fully onboard with the fact that Ally was drugged during her bathtub soak with Winnie. She had a glass of wine and just looked relaxed to me. Also made me think of her soak in the tub outside in Roanoke;)

But what did Winnie put into the tub? 

48 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

You don't think it's strange that Ivy made the password 'clowns'? 

The kid sees the clowns too though so it isn't just Ally. The two couples saw the clowns too before they were murdered. 

Yes, her password is strange but I think it's deliberately trying to throw us off.  

Edited September 21, 2017 by Fusion

[kissedbyarose]

All this strange shit happening and nobody took pictures or recorded it?  In 2017?

 

That’s the craziest part of this to me.

Edited September 21, 2017 by kissedbyarose

[Hazel55]

On 9/20/2017 at 1:16 AM, HunterHunted said:

Ally was concerned, but Ivy was upset that Ally cheated with Monotone Winter, which is the dumbest takeaway from watching that video. Even if Ivy is gaslighting Ally it's not a statement that passes the smell test if Ally mentions it to someone not in on any conspiracy. Here are the actual facts that have been acknowledged by more than Ally and Ivy:

• a man was killed in Ally and Ivy's restaurant;
• Ally killed one of their employees;
• someone is gassing Ally and Ivy's home;
• someone has painted the smiley face on Ally and Ivy's home;
• someone has been harassing them by sending men to their house to assualt them;
• someone broke into their house and killed their son's pet; and
• someone had a camera inside their house without their knowledge.

Ivy's conclusion that Ally is a mentally unstable cheater is basically not supported by the facts above. Ivy had just seen the pet killed brutally and sees this video, Ivy's first concern should be safety. Cheating should be the last thing on her mind.

Yet if Ivy is really a cult member setting Ally up, then all of these "inconsistencies" make perfect sense. 

1. Ivy knows about all of the menacing things that are going on... she helped set them up with her fellow cult members to drive Ally over the edge. 

2. Ivy is not really concerned about the safety of herself or her son, because she knows who is responsible for the house gassing, the smiley face graffiti, the murdered pet, the hidden camera-- her own cult. Whom she knows will not harm her or Oz. 

3. Ivy knows that Ally is not mentally unstable, but has an interest in convincing her that she is-- to either get her committed so that she (Ivy) can have sole custody of Oz, or to emotionally manipulate Ally into joining the cult. (First making her doubt her senses, breaking her down emotionally and mentally, then introducing her to the cult doctorine while she's at her lowest point.) 

4. Ivy is not, in fact, concerned about Ally's infidelity-- because she herself, Ivy, set the entire thing up with Winter. It was planned all along, to be an imepetus to make Ivy pretend to get upset/ leave Ally, in order to hasten Ally's mental breakdown. 

In short, the issue that "Ivy's first concern should be safety," is not relevant, if Ivy herself is behind everything that is happening; and she's setting up Ally purposefully and deliberately, which seems like a probability that I'd bet on 100 percent at this point. She knows that "the facts" don't support that Ally is "a mentally unstable cheater"; she herself is manipulating the situation to get the desired reaction from Ally. 

At this point, I believe that Ivy is behind everything, and setting Ally up for one of the following reasons: 1. Ivy has been turned against Ally, and is "setting her up" to look crazy so that she, Ivy, can have Ally committed and gain custody of Oz (while maintaining the boy's full sympathies.) In this scenario she wants her son to ultimately join the cult as well. Or 2. Ivy wants to mentally break down Ally so that Ivy can indoctorinate Ally into the cult. 

At any rate, I'd say that many of the "inconsistencies" people are complaining about this season (Winter never having been fired, neither Ivy nor Ally checking on Oz after last episodes clown break in, Ivy's occasional weird lapses in judgement-- sending Pedro over to "check on" a mentally unhinged Ally, for instance) make perfect sense. 

Winter hasn't been fired because Ally is utterly loopy and the stronger and more competent person in the relationship, Ivy, is not going to fire Winter, because Winter is part of the plan to destroy Ally. No one bothered to check on Oz last week after the break in because Ally is too disorganized and unstable to remember to do so, while Ivy knows that he was never in danger. (Having set up the clown break in herself.) Ivy sent Pedro over on purpose during Ally's breakdown, knowing full well what would probably happen. 

IMO, there are certainly inconsistencies and plot holes here, as there nearly always are on Ryan Murphy shows. However, many of the most frequently cited examples may make sense if Ivy turns out to be working with the cult, which seems the only likely scenario at this point. 

[Hazel55]

On 9/19/2017 at 10:15 PM, mansfolly said:

Am I a terrible person if I laughed at this line?:  ...a lesbian George Zimmerman.

No, that was hilarious. (Comparable to last weeks "Lesbians! We are under attack!") The actresses deadpan, hyper serious delivery of the line lifted it straight into greatness. 

On 9/19/2017 at 10:24 PM, peridot said:

I was laughing big time when the neighbors showed up at Ally's place in sombreros.

Yeah, the "evil neighbors" are made of awesome. Too bad we seem to have lost Meadow, she (and the actress playing her) was simply fantastic. 

Going along with the many subtle allusions to and commentaries upon current events, I believe that the sombrero thing was Ryan Murphy's nod to a recent incident at a University, in which a frat party was closed down because party goers were wearing sombreros. The University felt that this was a case of "dangerous cultural appropriation" on the part of party goers. Not only was the party shut down, I believe that the sombrero wearing students were punished in some way. 

[HunterHunted]

8 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

Yet if Ivy is really a cult member setting Ally up, then all of these "inconsistencies" make perfect sense. 

...

In short, the issue that "Ivy's first concern should be safety," is not relevant, if Ivy herself is behind everything that is happening; and she's setting up Ally purposefully and deliberately, which seems like a probability that I'd bet on 100 percent at this point. She knows that "the facts" don't support that Ally is "a mentally unstable cheater"; she herself is manipulating the situation to get the desired reaction from Ally. 

At this point, I believe that Ivy is behind everything, and setting Ally up for one of the following reasons: 1. Ivy has been turned against Ally, and is "setting her up" to look crazy so that she, Ivy, can have Ally committed and gain custody of Oz (while maintaining the boy's full sympathies.) In this scenario she wants her son to ultimately join the cult as well. Or 2. Ivy wants to mentally break down Ally so that Ivy can indoctorinate Ally into the cult. 

At any rate, I'd say that many of the "inconsistencies" people are complaining about this season (Winter never having been fired, neither Ivy nor Ally checking on Oz after last episodes clown break in, Ivy's occasional weird lapses in judgement-- sending Pedro over to "check on" a mentally unhinged Ally, for instance) make perfect sense. 

Winter hasn't been fired because Ally is utterly loopy and the stronger and more competent person in the relationship, Ivy, is not going to fire Winter, because Winter is part of the plan to destroy Ally. No one bothered to check on Oz last week after the break in because Ally is too disorganized and unstable to remember to do so, while Ivy knows that he was never in danger. (Having set up the clown break in herself.) Ivy sent Pedro over on purpose during Ally's breakdown, knowing full well what would probably happen. 

IMO, there are certainly inconsistencies and plot holes here, as there nearly always are on Ryan Murphy shows. However, many of the most frequently cited examples may make sense if Ivy turns out to be working with the cult, which seems the only likely scenario at this point. 

The problem isn't that Ivy's motivations look inconsistent WITHIN the conspiracy. The problem is that they look inconsistent and illogical OUTSIDE of the conspiracy. The purpose of gaslighting is to conspire to minimize, institutionalize, kill a person or persons in a way that leaves no doubt to the target's dangerousness, instability, or untrustworthiness to ALL not just the conspirators. So if Ivy's purpose is to get Ally permanently sidelined, Ivy's motivations need to be understandable and logical for ANYONE OUTSIDE of the conspiracy if someone outside the conspiracy has an opportunity to review the facts.

The Guinea pig is actually the bridge too far because neither Ally nor Ivy was at home to do it. It would be smarter to kill it during one of Ally's clown freakouts or when they are watching the police detaining Harrison. Ally is the last person out of the house and it can't be proved that she didn't do it. Even the video of Winter and Ally can be explained away as a spurned lover trying to get Ally to leave Ivy. The Guinea pig is hard evidence of a third party's involvement. The video provides more evidence of a third party, which bolsters Ally's perspective. That undermines the conspiracy. Ivy looks weirder and sketchier to any person outside of the conspiracy with every detail of third party involvement that she ignores. Assuming there is someone outside of the conspiracy, that person could use Ivy's inconsistencies to free or vindicate Ally.

My point is that at some point there will be a person who isn't in on the conspiracy who will get a chance to review Ivy's behavior and that Ivy's behavior will look super weird to that person. The point of the gaslighting/conspiracy is that there should be no doubt to Ally's insanity or instability by everyone, including individuals who have yet to meet Ally or anyone in the conspiracy. Ivy's actions provide doubt to the certainty of Ally's insanity or instability.

Edited September 21, 2017 by HunterHunted

[Empress1]

5 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

No, that was hilarious. (Comparable to last weeks "Lesbians! We are under attack!") The actresses deadpan, hyper serious delivery of the line lifted it straight into greatness. 

Yeah, the "evil neighbors" are made of awesome. Too bad we seem to have lost Meadow, she (and the actress playing her) was simply fantastic. 

Going along with the many subtle allusions to and commentaries upon current events, I believe that the sombrero thing was Ryan Murphy's nod to a recent incident at a University, in which a frat party was closed down because party goers were wearing sombreros. The University felt that this was a case of "dangerous cultural appropriation" on the part of party goers. Not only was the party shut down, I believe that the sombrero wearing students were punished in some way. 

The sombreros and Taco Bell coupons had me rolling. Ally is EXHAUSTING (it's been three episodes of her shrieking and crying and I am over it; can her unraveling manifest in a quieter way?) and an asshole, and a murderer (just because she wasn't charged with a crime doesn't mean that's not true). "Lesbian George Zimmerman" was a great line. I also laughed when Ivy threw Ally's Jill Stein vote in her face and Ally was like "You said you weren't going to bring that up anymore" all rueful. I hope Meadow isn't actually dead because her character is a hoot.

There were at least four "fucks." I don't mind, it just surprises me every time to hear them on basic cable.

I think Ivy, Winter, and the shrink are all in on it. The "why" is what I'm most interested in.

[asabovesobelow]

I loved the high anxiety of the first episode. But with each episode that follows, it's starting to feel more confusing than scary.

Mr. Guinea. As soon as they showed Oz holding him, I knew he was in trouble. But honestly? It's not thrilling, it's not fun, it's just cruel and disgusting and sad. Watching a guinea pig in a microwave is not my idea of good TV. Because I was so bothered by that, the rest of the episode was ruined for me. Couldn't even tell you what happened after.

[Captanne]

May I admit to all and sundry that I love the "fucks" so much because I don't even notice them.  They are ubiquitous and late night cable television needs to get over itself.

That said, I liked this episode -- sort of begrudgingly.  It's not appointment TV for me but, because I pay a la carte for my series, I watch it without missing a single one.  Most of my gripes have been noted already by this smart community.

I will add that the clues dropped about the involvement of the shrink are so heavy as to be anvils.  There can be no doubt in my mind that he is the ring leader.

[Mabinogia]

I like the shrink for the cult leader at this point. Kai is a minion who I think wants to do something huge to prove himself. I just don't get why they would be expending all this time and effort on terrorizing Ally.

I'm not sure how I feel about Ivy being involved. I would prefer her to not be just from a storytelling POV, it's more interesting if she's not part of the clowns or the cult or anything other than an exhausted wife who may be doubting her choice in life partner.

The green gas trucks had me cracking up. I mean...WTF? How is that even a thing that's happening? Ally yelling at the trucks was also hilarious. Seriously, this season is high comedy for me. It's just so ridiculously over the top, but finally in a way that works. (I thought many seasons were over the top and ridiculous but didn't quite click. This one is clicking!)

I just don't understand what the point of it all is yet, or how it is all connected. Based on previous seasons I'm gonna say it's not going to make any damn sense in the end and about halfway through we will find out the clowns are aliens from another dimension who are using green gas mind control to turn suburbanites into a cult to take down the president? IDK but I'm enjoying the ride so far.

Meadow can't be dead! She's awesome!!! Interesting though, that both her and her husband whose name I can't think of at the moment, both went to Kai and his darkest secret wish came true (dead wife). Did Kai pick him over her for some reason? Or are the killer clowns just a totally different entity from the cult? Do we have any proof pointing to them being connected or not?

[Empress1]

I definitely find this season more funny than scary at this point. Maybe because I'm not afraid of clowns.

[ZoloftBlob]

Well, I love that the scares are more psychological (and therefore scarier) than seasons past where the murders and subsequent ghosts, and ghost murderers got silly. I will say though... I do need to start seeing some "why" on this. The clowns for example - that's not a for Ally only thing - the clown motif happened in the murder of the councilman and the couple in the coffins.

[Captanne]

I'm wondering if Murder Cult Leader Shrink (based on the anvil clues) has yet to cross paths with Heath Ledger's Joker, er, Tate, er, Blue-Haired Svengali?

 

I am amused by the spraying trucks.  Because the Hazmat-suited baddie had a smiley face under the gas mask, that leads me to connect the smiley face dots back to the big anvil of smiley faces on the shrink's desk that he was fiddling with during his conversation with Ally in the car.  They must be part of his Murder Cult.

I just don't see any connection between Murder Cult and Svengali yet (other than the unfortunate cast of victims.  Btw, did Sven know the coffin couple?  I don't think he did but that is clearly the result of the Murder Cult.)

[iMonrey]

Quote

On a purely superficial level (and because I am rewatching Murder House because Netflix is probably losing the series next month)

Hey me too! I highly recommend the re-watch because there are several things I forgot. I did not remember that Adina Porter had a (small) role all the way back in the original series. I was also reminded that microwaving the family pet is something that happened in the original series, and the piggy-head guy from Roanoke originated on Murder House as well.

The downside of watching Murder House again is that the current series season pales in comparison. The original felt so brilliant and new and this season just kind of feels like I'm being jerked around. We're only three episodes in and I'm already tired of trying to figure out what the hell is going on. There are a lot of interesting plot elements here but so far it isn't really coming together very well.

[Chaos Theory]

5 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Hey me too! I highly recommend the re-watch because there are several things I forgot. I did not remember that Adina Porter had a (small) role all the way back in the original series. I was also reminded that microwaving the family pet is something that happened in the original series, and the piggy-head guy from Roanoke originated on Murder House as well.

The downside of watching Murder House again is that the current series season pales in comparison. The original felt so brilliant and new and this season just kind of feels like I'm being jerked around. We're only three episodes in and I'm already tired of trying to figure out what the hell is going on. There are a lot of interesting plot elements here but so far it isn't really coming together very well.

I respectfully  disagree.  I am starting to see everything come together and I am really enjoying this season.  This may actually turn into one of my favorites if I am right about the direction it is headed.   I dont want to put spoilers on the episode thread but I put my wild speculation on the speculation thread.  

Edited September 21, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[margol29]

On 9/19/2017 at 10:24 PM, peridot said:

Kai looks really creepy up close.  When he suddenly appeared in Ally's window, it made me jump.  Has the actor always looked this deranged?
I guess Kai set the mob on the restaurant?  They parted the crowd like he was a deranged Messiah.

I was laughing big time when the neighbors showed up at Ally's place in sombreros.  I was on the floor when he threw the Taco Bell coupons at her. 

Why are they still letting Winter be the babysitter?  She abandoned Ally, let a creepy guy in the house, and accepted a strange gift from the neighbors. 

The therapist is definitely in on this, he set up his client to be killed and had the smiley face pins on his desk.

In relation to the face, after every conversation Kai has with Ally, he says "Have a nice day." Just thought it was weird.

Also, I don't know if its a thing or not but so far every woman but Ally has a first name to do with nature.

We have Ivy, Winter, Meadow and Rose (the unfortunate woman in the casket). Just another weird thought.

[GoneGirl]

3 minutes ago, margol29 said:

In relation to the face, after every conversation Kai has with Ally, he says "Have a nice day." Just thought it was weird.

Also, I don't know if its a thing or not but so far every woman but Ally has a first name to do with nature.

We have Ivy, Winter, Meadow and Rose (the unfortunate woman in the casket). Just another weird thought.

Rose? Interesting, brings me back to the Rose on the door in Kai's house? Connection?

[margol29]

1 minute ago, GoneGirl said:

Rose? Interesting, brings me back to the Rose on the door in Kai's house? Connection?

You never know with this show. Sometimes everything is connected.

Good call on the rose on the door.

[LoneHaranguer]

18 hours ago, Florinaldo said:

Not only that but Ivy was very quick to agree this was in self-defense, with no mention of the fact that she sent Pedro to the house so he was not there to do harm as the cop assumed (surely someone else at the restaurant would testify to that), despite him being a "person of interest" in the other investigation; also, no mention of the box of supplies he was carrying. Perhaps the clowns took it away.  ;-)

The whole "self-defense" argument will fall apart once the physical evidence is put together. They should have gone with what it was, "diminished capacity".

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, LoneHaranguer said:

The whole "self-defense" argument will fall apart once the physical evidence is put together. They should have gone with what it was, "diminished capacity".

What physical evidence?   The only real evidence is that Ivy sent one of her employees to her home in the middle of a blackout when people were talking possible terrorist attack.  Plus there is a stand your ground law in play.  The only thing in favor of an arrest is an illegal possession of a gun.  

This was a tragic accident not a crime.  

What makes it hinky is everyone's behavior after.  Ally should have stayed away from the protesting crowd and let it die down on its own.  Lack of self awareness is not a crime either though.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[ZoloftBlob]

Not only that. its not the sort of incident that attracts media attention. Ally isn't a cop and she was home alone, in a blackout with a child and there had been a murder recently in her neighborhood. Pedro wasn't expected. She's not "right" to shoot him... but this is a tragic accident and not likely to get people worked up. She's not a cop, and she shot someone she thought was breaking into her home. Its hard to believe this would attract protestsd.

[LoneHaranguer]

27 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

What physical evidence?

Forensics that show he wasn't near to or coming at her at the time.

[Chaos Theory]

9 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

Forensics that show he wasn't near to or coming at her at the time.

Even if the police did collect forensic evidence which they all but said they wouldn't she was still defending her home and her son against a perceived threat.  No one waa going to press charges against her.      Plus the stand your ground law pretty much covered her even if she just perceived a threat to her safety.    It gives her almost complete immunity.  The only thing that might be an issue is the illegal gun no one will call her on that.

[LoneHaranguer]

39 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

 Plus the stand your ground law pretty much covered her even if she just perceived a threat to her safety.    It gives her almost complete immunity.

No, the person has to "honestly and reasonably" believe the force is necessary. It was not reasonable for her to believe that. Her perception was due to her mental state. She may still be safe if the coroner shrugs it off.

[Florinaldo]

5 hours ago, LoneHaranguer said:

The whole "self-defense" argument will fall apart once the physical evidence is put together. They should have gone with what it was, "diminished capacity".

It could very well fall apart if the investigation were taking place in the real world. But I got the impression from the writing and the acting that the police detective,and by implication the rest of the force, have already reached their conclusion and won't be be looking very actively at the evidence. Which does not preclude them having to take another look should someone, working to further undermine Ally, reveals "new evidence" or simply exposes in the media the existing facts.

9 hours ago, Captanne said:

I will add that the clues dropped about the involvement of the shrink are so heavy as to be anvils.  There can be no doubt in my mind that he is the ring leader.

I would hope that considering how heavily anvilicious those clues are, that they are misdirection because the writers have worked hard to come up with something more inventive than the obvious conclusion these point to at this moment; of course, AHS and RM are not not always known for the subtlety of their plotting.

[queenanne]

19 hours ago, kissedbyarose said:

All this strange shit happening and nobody took pictures or recorded it?  In 2017?

 

That’s the craziest part of this to me.

True - I was *at least* expecting Ally to back up the "green chemical truck sightings" with photos, and an eye on having to prove their presence to the city council or wherever she called to complain.  Especially when she's already doubting her own eyes daily about evidence of clowns that other people say they don't see; but she expects the government to take her word?  

[Granimal]

This episode was so jam-packed. Definitely plot-driven. It was full of events, yet barely any notice of event #4 because event #8 was already happening! Can't stand Winter, and believe she'd be fired in a second, even without the obvious, she is not a kid-person.  Would a parent really hire that ball of sullen angst and gloom to influence their child? Has Winter played with Ozzy once?

My prediction is that Ozzy is Kai's bio-son, and Kai is using Winter to desensitize him to gore and violence (taking vitamins!), because of couse as the son of the cult leader, he'll be the next leader. Somehow this will involve pulling Ally along for the ride, which is why I think he's been so set on her. This seems too obvious but, who knows? There are other plots going on.

This episode made me wonder just how much Ally had changed for Ivy after meeting her post-9/11. Ally doesn't feel authentic. I know it could be a poke at libs who put on a costume of liberal superiority, but I'm guessing Ally wasn't a life-long bleeding heart liberal. The line "We don't allow cis-normative pet names." rang false. Funny line, but it felt like more of a put-on from Ally than an actual belief. Her phone call with the therapist also sounded like someone speaking how they think a liberal should speak. Wouldn't shock me if Ally conformed to Ivy's more liberal beliefs. Either, it's purposeful to the character, or Sarah's not acting to her fullest potential.

Was anyone as shocked by that slap as I was? Kai slapping Meadow that is. I know- small potatoes compared to everything else! Kai slapping Meadow... Meadow winding up dead...Kai is more dangerous than I realized.

So the entire town is being dosed in poison?

Edited September 22, 2017 by Granimal

[LoneHaranguer]

1 hour ago, queenanne said:

True - I was *at least* expecting Ally to back up the "green chemical truck sightings" with photos, and an eye on having to prove their presence to the city council or wherever she called to complain.

Are they ripping off a storyline from before everyone had phones with cameras? I saw something back in the spring that had a good old-fashioned "heroes race to warn everybody" scene where I was left wondering why they didn't pull out a cellphone and call. Some tropes are getting a little obsolete.

[DangerousMinds]

I'll give it one more week,  but this ep has almost got me giving up.

[ShadowHunter]

1 hour ago, Granimal said:

This episode was so jam-packed. Definitely plot-driven. It was full of events, yet barely any notice of event #4 because event #8 was already happening! Can't stand Winter, and believe she'd be fired in a second, even without the obvious, she is not a kid-person.  Would a parent really hire that ball of sullen angst and gloom to influence their child? Has Winter played with Ozzy once?

My prediction is that Ozzy is Kai's bio-son, and Kai is using Winter to desensitize him to gore and violence (taking vitamins!), because of couse as the son of the cult leader, he'll be the next leader. Somehow this will involve pulling Ally along for the ride, which is why I think he's been so set on her. This seems too obvious but, who knows? There are other plots going on.

This episode made me wonder just how much Ally had changed for Ivy after meeting her post-9/11. Ally doesn't feel authentic. I know it could be a poke at libs who put on a costume of liberal superiority, but I'm guessing Ally wasn't a life-long bleeding heart liberal. The line "We don't allow cis-normative pet names." rang false. Funny line, but it felt like more of a put-on from Ally than an actual belief. Her phone call with the therapist also sounded like someone speaking how they think a liberal should speak. Wouldn't shock me if Ally conformed to Ivy's more liberal beliefs. Either, it's purposeful to the character, or Sarah's not acting to her fullest potential.

Was anyone as shocked by that slap as I was? Kai slapping Meadow that is. I know- small potatoes compared to everything else! Kai slapping Meadow... Meadow winding up dead...Kai is more dangerous than I realized.

So the entire town is being dosed in poison?

No, I was not surprised he slapped her. She asked him if she could be honest so he was probably expecting something horrible and juicy and that is not what he got at first. 

Meadow being dead I go back and fourth on. I still feel we may get more to do.   Then again maybe not but I hope.