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All Episodes Talk: Small World, Big Lives

NewOrleansLady
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Culture Check: How can the tropes and stereotypes we apply to TV personalities impact our fellow posters, and how do we remain mindful of these effects while discussing them? Please review for more on stereotypes and tropes.

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Culture Check: How can we express our opinions and consider the effect our assumptions may have on the people around us? What impact might speculation have on others, especially when we speculate about children or complex issues like neurodiversity?

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Irate Panda
Irate Panda

A rundown of the show imo: Two LP got married because neither one of them thought they could do better than the other. They had 4 kids, despite probably realizing they were not a good mat

VioletNevermind
VioletNevermind

Ugh.  If I were Amy, I would be furious (and holding my cards very close to my chest).  That conversation in Matt’s office was nothing less than a three-on-one pile-on.  I just don’t understand how Am

funky-rat
funky-rat

We all need to remember that we came in to their lives after they had 4 children and had lived on the farm for a number of years.  None of us saw the years leading up to that.  I don't know what Amy w

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BAForever

BAForever

2 hours ago, 65mickey said:

Tori sitting on the sofa with a pair of scissors swirling it around on one finger in close proximity to Lylah and Jackson. I have never seen an adult do this around small children. I beginning to think there is something very wrong with Tori.

She has totally checked out. Probably always busy planning her next insta post shilling her products. She was never very sparkly or vivacious, but she's dull as dishwater now. She acts like being on the show is such a bore.

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Jeanne222

Jeanne222

On 4/10/2024 at 1:10 PM, applewood said:

It's so sad. Matt and Caryn used to be so close to the kids. I remember one time Jackson was so excited to see Caryn and was running towards her yelling "Cha Cha!!!" :) I don't know what happened at that meeting that was so horrible that a year or year and a half later they still aren't on good terms.

And Lilah not getting speech therapy or physical therapy is despicable on Zach and Tori's part! Doesn't one's insurance usually cover stuff like that?

I think what happened in that meeting is Caryn stuck up for Matt and the other siblings.  

Rather than hate Matt who just might leave them some $$$ when he passes they turned on Caryn.  A vulnerable victim.

They better watch themselves with Matt.  I don't think he'd be a bit shy of cutting them out of the will or way down!

This missing of the fund raiser for Dwarfs is setting Matt over the edge.  I'm thinking Amy's hurt too but won't side with Matt in that conversation for fear of Zit turning on her!

 

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Dibs

Dibs

(edited)
18 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

This missing of the fund raiser for Dwarfs is setting Matt over the edge.  I'm thinking Amy's hurt too but won't side with Matt in that conversation for fear of Zit turning on her!

 

Both Matt and Amy have said the only reason they're doing this is for Zach and Jackson (and I would hope the other two kids, as well), and they can't even be arsed to show up?  Just wow.  Then of course Amy has to take ZiT's side and pretend to believe their flimsy excuse while Matt is real and sees and tells it like it is: they created a conflict just to avoid Grandpa, Cha-Cha, and the farm yet again.

Seems they're going to keep this up until they're sure Jackson's memory of that precious time has completely vanished.

Amy has no problem lying by commission or omission when it suits her purposes, I've noticed!  Wonder how Chris, who seems basically simple and honest, likes that side of her?

 

Edited by Dibs
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BAForever

BAForever

DAAA was a big part of Zach's growing up along with the Little People of America Conference. Really shi*** that Zach and Tori can't show at the fundraiser to support Amy. 

Amy wasn't happy about the no-shows. And what a lame reason why- going to Idaho to see people. Who does 2 vacations back to back because Austin is upcoming?  Oh,wait people that don't have JOBS take multiple vacas.

Amy should have just said "I'm disappointed Zach and Tori and the kids won't be here too."

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pdlinda

pdlinda

7 hours ago, BAForever said:

She has totally checked out.

They both look like they're in a "hostage video" on these last shows.  The final show will be next week.  They appear as if THEY DON'T WANT TO APPEAR ON CAMERA and/or have anything whatsoever to do with any of the family members.

I will note, coincidentally, that I follow Tori on Instagram and she and Zach are going FULL STEAM AHEAD on producing and expanding their podcast to include the children.

As the TLC filming apparently concluded last summer, the children are now older and able to do and say more things.  Of course, ZiT are producing each episode of the podcast.  Who is paying for the production (if there is any planning involved) is unknown as it is new.  However, I believe they may have an investor (or maybe using some of their savings) to pay for the equipment and advice on the script.  The kids are very cute.  Jackson is seated so there's no emphasis on his legs and Lilah says a few garbled things (little to no improvement from last year) while Josiah is basically along "for the ride" at this point.  

Perhaps, they will find a sponsor, or more, for the podcast.  I know that must be their goal. 

I believe the TLC show will NOT be renewed as there don't seem to be any storylines that the public will likely find compelling enough to warrant viewing.

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Ms.Lulu

Ms.Lulu

12 hours ago, BAForever said:

DAAA was a big part of Zach's growing up along with the Little People of America Conference. Really shi*** that Zach and Tori can't show at the fundraiser to support Amy. 

 

Zach is currently an officer-- the Vice President of the DAAA Board, so he should have been there in his official capacity, if not as the son of the host.

Shame on ZiT!

 

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b4pjoe

b4pjoe

10 minutes ago, EastCoast4Life said:

Let's build Jackson an indoor soccer stadium, while Lylah gets treated like a sack of potatoes! 

But it is so RAD! (according to Tori)

When they first showed the "shop" being built I thought good idea...a place for tools and equipment to do actual work...but no it turns out it is an indoor playpen for Jackson and Zach. Pretty soon there will be a sign "NO GIRLS ALLOWED".

What a waste.

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Dibs

Dibs

(edited)
10 hours ago, Ms.Lulu said:

Zach is currently an officer-- the Vice President of the DAAA Board, so he should have been there in his official capacity, if not as the son of the host.

Shame on ZiT!

 

And shame on Amy, who's begging for money from all these attendees for the cause, for backing them up on their sorry excuse.  They "already had plans" to visit friends (whom, according to Jackson, they had JUST visited)?  They can't reschedule; the friends won't understand?  Please!  Matt nailed it.

She's absolutely loving this conflict between Zit and Matt, as this makes her and Chris the favored grandparents when that was formerly M&C back when Zit was treating her like yesterday's dog's dinner!  She not only supports it, but probably eggs Zit on behind the scenes, just like she put that bug in her farm manager son's ear about moving (hiding? selling? dumping?) Matt and Caryn's barn items...

But then she promoted and created "alienation of affection" between her kids and their father all their lives, so why should she change now?

And again Zach doubles-down on "if Jackson asks questions, we'll answer them, but we're not making a big deal of his dwarfism."  In other words, they're not going to TELL him.  That's not "making a big deal" of it, Zach; that's TELLING him, and he deserves to be told and not have to find out from his ridiculing peers.

Ugh!!!

Edited by Dibs
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tinderbox

tinderbox

(edited)

It’s obvious Zach is trying to recreate the fun and adventurous “farm” atmosphere he grew up enjoying on Roloff Farms.  It’s not necessarily working for a variety of reasons….particularly space, and Tori sees it.  

Hey, Zach!  Just take your children to the farm on a fairly regular basis.  It’s a win/win for everyone except Tori.  Such is life!  

Edited by tinderbox
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EastCoast4Life

EastCoast4Life

1 hour ago, Dibs said:

In other words, they're not going to TELL him.  That's not "making a big deal" of it, Zach; that's TELLING him, and he deserves to be told and not have to find out from his ridiculing peers.

I feel like Lylah's feelings will be an after thought in this process. They will tell her, because they don't care. But God-forbid their precious little Jackson, who owns every room he walks into, be aware of his stature. Meanwhile, Lylah is barely verbal at the age of 4.

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SDVegas

SDVegas

(edited)
17 hours ago, b4pjoe said:

But it is so RAD! (according to Tori)

When they first showed the "shop" being built I thought good idea...a place for tools and equipment to do actual work...but no it turns out it is an indoor playpen for Jackson and Zach. Pretty soon there will be a sign "NO GIRLS ALLOWED".

What a waste.

Zack did say it would be a space for all of his kids, including Lilah. 

Edited by SDVegas
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Dibs

Dibs

3 hours ago, 65mickey said:

i can just hear Jackson now. No Lylah you can't come up here. This is for me and dad to play soccer.  They could install a mirror on one wall and a low ballet barre for Lylah to practice. But i'm sure that's never occurred to Zit.

Considering that poor Lilah is the last one up the stairs in those 3x-too-large rubber boots with her tendency to fall over, probably the less reason she has to go up there, the better!

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BAForever

BAForever

1 hour ago, babyhouseman said:

I don't know why she doesn't have better shoes. Tori must be promoting those boots on her social media. 

Long time teacher here. Every few years, I'll have a student who wears either cowboy boots or rain boots. The parents always say "he/she insisted". I usually ask to please send a pair of old sneakers and we change them. I get it, parents have to chose battles, but I'd pick the shoe battle with Lilah. It interferes with her mobility. 

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Dibs

Dibs

(edited)
30 minutes ago, BAForever said:

Long time teacher here. Every few years, I'll have a student who wears either cowboy boots or rain boots. The parents always say "he/she insisted". I usually ask to please send a pair of old sneakers and we change them. I get it, parents have to chose battles, but I'd pick the shoe battle with Lilah. It interferes with her mobility. 

I seriously doubt non-verbal, passive Lilah is "insisting" on anything.  Tori puts them on her to get likes on "shoshal," as Zach would say...

Edited by Dibs
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EastCoast4Life

EastCoast4Life

Here is what I would like to see, and actually I don't think it's asking too much of the parents of these kids:

1. Get Lylah speech help! How can you not see the vast difference in your first born and second?

2. Stop laughing at her when she falls or is clumsy. You would be rushing to Jackson with a first aid kit if were him.

3. Don't forget about that 3rd kid you had to have!

4. Fix Jackson's legs, the first surgery did nothing. Oh, and stop favoring him.

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athousandclowns

athousandclowns

On 4/12/2024 at 7:12 PM, 65mickey said:

Who gave unsolicited advice on how the parents should approach the kids dwarfism? When did this occur?  I'm confused about this statement. 

A poster indicated that at least Amy should say something to them regarding dwarfism

I just  rewatched one and at least Caryn confessed to her friend that she always inserts herself too much and it doesn’t turn out well, so she’s learning boundaries. Too late  I’d say. Yet she’s bewildered why they aren’t coming to the event?  Funny her ring was suppose to be a promise ring.  
Chris is a good guy speaking up for his wife ,she’s had a lifetime of a guy who had to be right at all times and kept her in the dark about money and his relationship with an employee. He has a calm demeanor which is needed and pleasant to watch.
  Early in this show/ series  way back Matt said spending time with his family is a waste of his time so he’s created his relationship with his sons.  

 


 

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ezzy4

ezzy4

Here are my feelings about the show and personalities:

1)  Matt was a bully to Amy for a very long time and continuing to interact with him is not healthy for her.  I don't think Matt is a horrible person, but he is single minded and someone who simply bulldozes over others to get his way.  Amy is someone who was very negatively affected by bullying as a child.  This couple was mismatched from the get go.

2) who knows what Amy's personality would have been without her long marriage to Matt.  It looks like she developed some bad coping mechanisms over the years.  I can see how becoming underhandedly manipulative would come from being consistently emotionally plowed over.

It's not normal to be put in a situation where you have to interact so closely with an ex.  She shouldn't be forced to comment on an engagement ring of the woman who had an affair with her husband.  It's just not healthy.

Amy is a bitter, cranky, manipulative person.  And she'll remain that way if she remains trapped in this show.

I want so much better for her.

3) The ridiculous vinyard/wedding venue storyline...was...well...clearly a storyline.  It's clear that if the show was going to continue Amy/Chris needed a storyline.  Having a competing "farmlike venue" with Matt/C is a good storyline.  I think Chris was pushing to keep their employment with the network.

4) Caryn is doing her best to keep the peace.  She complies with Matt (which Amy couldn't make herself do).  She humors Amy.  Apparently when she made an effort to insert herself in the negotiations with Zach/Tori, things went terribly wrong.  And she is doing her best to back off now.  The whole Roloff family seems focused on power plays and shifting alliances.  Caryn just tries to stay out of the way.  I don't get it.  It doesn't look like any fun for her at all.

5)  Here is where I'm completely at odds with the rest of ya'll.  I don't disapprove of Z/T parenting style.  They are clearly parenting out of sinc with the current parenting climate.  I think the difference is they grew up pretty "free range" themselves and they parent like it.  It's like watching a reality show of parenting in the 1970's with kids getting less screen time and more rough and tumble play time; knees get scraped, feet get dirty...it's all good.

Even their off handed remarks and laughing criticisms of their kids is just very "old school".  I don't think that's bad.  I don't think they are neglectful.

But i do think the times have changed and children are much more coddled now.  Neither parenting style seems superior to the other.  It's just a difference.  

And this extends into how they seek/handle medical help.  They aren't people who run to a specialist at every opportunity.  They don't seem interested in seeking diagnoses.  I don't think that's a bad thing.  I'm certainly not going to criticize the struggles they face with their children.  I know nothing myself about having dwarfism.  Zac does.  And i'm very hesitant to second guess what is for the best of someone else's child.  I'm not a doctor.  

I actually think Z/T are a breath of fresh air.  And i fully agree with their decision to get out of the public line of fire that they have been in since Zac was a child and Tori a very young person.

 

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EastCoast4Life

EastCoast4Life

1 hour ago, ezzy4 said:

And this extends into how they seek/handle medical help.  They aren't people who run to a specialist at every opportunity. 

I am not one to run to a specialist for every little thing either, but if my daughter can only speak in one word sentences at the age of 4? I am going to taker her to a specialist. 

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JMO

JMO

(edited)

Wow.  Tough crowd here.  I guess I see things substantially differently from most.  

First, I recognize that we see only what the participants are willing to show us, save those times when emotions run high and they inadvertently display some anger or resentment that they hadn't intended.  Regardless, I think they've done a pretty good job of not letting everything devolve into a sea of bad feelings, perhaps to the dismay of production.  

I enjoy the Matt/Caryn relationship's ease and supportiveness, even as I remember that it began while Matt was still married and living with his family.  No doubt Amy remembers that, too, because the fact of it will never change, even if the rift between her and Matt was already there.  As with many other couples, they will likely continue to work on bridging the gap for the sake of their children, but the circumstance of having to film the show is currently awkward in the way that no one else has to contend with.

I actually like Amy, and don't get the hate.  Yes, she doesn't prioritize neatness, but that was actually a pretty good trait while raising three boys and the pack of their friends who were constantly at the Roloff house.  She valued experiences over things, and while some of that would drive me crazy in my own house, I respect it.  Sometimes I wish I could get there. 

Chris is very reserved, in marked contrast with Caryn, which may be why some still feel like his relationship with Amy isn't real or strong.  But he's said he loves her and loves having a family, and I have no reason not to believe him.

Matt is Matt, just on a lower key, where he's not constantly starting new projects, but is just building his house and his retirement.  Amy might actually have gotten along better with this version, and Caryn definitely does.  I do think he meant well by creating all of the attractions on his farm, so the boys could play in them, even while he was too limited in mobility to play with them  himself.  I'm sad for him that he is not seeing the next generation have the same experience.

The next generation---Zach and Tori.  I don't see them as the incompetents that others do.  I see them as a young couple with three special needs kids, who have had their own young experiences with reality TV, and are circumspect about their children's experience.  Zach knows a whole lot better than I do what it feels like to grow up as a little person, so I'm going to follow his lead.  He had a great time growing up on the farm, and wants to share that with his son, who very obviously adores him.  I don't know that Zach will ever get into ballet, but I do think he'll be happy to teach Lilah and Josiah soccer as well. 

I don't follow their social media, but unless they have said something to the contrary, you can rest assured that their pediatrician and orthopedist are aware of Jackson's bowing, and that there's a plan in place.  No need for internet consultation.  Same with Lilah's speech.  I don't know if they've postponed speech therapy, but I do know that I can understand what she says.  Guess I should mention that I'm a pediatrician saying these things.

It looks like the show is winding to an end.  I enjoyed the beginning and learned something about dwarfism through it, missed a lot of the middle, and now get to wish them all well at the end.  

PS  If Lilah wants to stomp around in her boots, she is more than welcome to.  Whatever floats your boat, little one.  She's smart.  She'll figure it out.

Edited by JMO
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BAForever

BAForever

Enjoyed your take @JMO. I certainly would never sign up to be on a reality show, who would want their whole life seen and discussed by strangers?

So easy for me to say Amy needs to get over her bitterness about Matt and Caryn, and Zach needs to get over his regarding the farm, but I only know what TLC has shown.

I do believe that some family therapy would help rebuild family ties.

 

 

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Ms.Lulu

Ms.Lulu

(edited)

I try to not focus too much on how the Matt/Amy marriage ended, but what they shared with us during the run of the show that suggested it had been bad for a long time.

Matt was a dreamer and a risk taker. He used the show and the farm to create the childhood for his kids that he wanted. Matt was boldly insensitive to Amy's fears, and was frustrated that she kept a dirty house, used the kids (Zach) as allies in their arguments and was trying to give her kids the childhood that she wanted.

Amy was initially attracted to the idea of dreamer Matt, but quickly realized that dreaming without planning meant that she needed to work outside of the home (multiple part time jobs) to find some financial security, was viewed as a blocker to her husband's ideas, so he made decisions without her--almost treating her as an employee, and they constantly argued about how to parent.

I think she stayed with the marriage because of low self esteem and perhaps religious beliefs.

Matt wanted fame, followership and a playground.

Amy wanted security, consistency, and family.

They argued, without respect or care for each other, for the last 18 years on our screens. 

And then there's the drinking. At least Matt seems to have a bad relationship with alcohol. Others have noted on this forum that Amy seems to like a good tipple as well. Alcohol and a bad marriage mean nobody is happy.

I think whether Matt cheated or not, they are both better off divorced. Amy has found someone who loves her, and communicates (mostly) with kindness and care.

Matt has found someone who loves him and seems to support Matt while still verbalizing her disagreements without yelling or disdain.

All in all, the divorce was probably for the best for both of them.

Edited by Ms.Lulu
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Ms.Lulu

Ms.Lulu

(edited)

My thoughts on ZiT as parents:

Zach is very much like Amy in terms of his insecurity with how his disability affects how others view him. He know the risks and dangers of being a little person, although he doesn't seem to take care of himself (as viewers, we knew that shunts need to be replaced or repaired--why didn't Zach?)

This is reflected in the way that he parents. He knows that the kids may face surgery, discrimination and bullying, and he'd like to keep that at bay as long as he can. He wants them to have the carefree childhood that he remembers on the farm (true or not).

Tory still seems like a clout chaser to me. She wanted to be around the fame of the Roloffs and has grown tired of Matt and previously Amy /believes she has her own celebrity now.

She does make odd parentling choices, like putting a toddler on a kitchen island, driving her daughter into a tree in a toy car, and favoring J. Tory does seem to hold grudges, and appears to use people. But she found dance for Lilah, writes notes in Jackson's lunchbox, and endured camping. Still there is a sense of entitlement which means I fast forward through most ZiT scenes.

That said, laughing at the crazy things kids do is normal. And Tory does seem to take the kids regularly to the doctor. ZiT may be waiting until Lilah is school age so that speech therapy is included in her education rather than as an out of pocket/deductible expenses.

They have 3 special needs kids under 5 and they are doing okay as parents.

 

Edited by Ms.Lulu
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BAForever

BAForever

1 hour ago, Ms.Lulu said:

may be waiting until Lilah is school age so that speech therapy is included in her education rather than as an out of pocket/deductible expenses.

They have 3 special needs kids under 5 and they are doing okay as parents.

 

I know nothing of Jackson's leg bowing so I'll stay out of that. I do know a lot about speech and language delays (career preK teacher). In general, children like Lilah with both language and articulation concerns fare the best with early intervention. Children can receive testing and services for free by trained speech pathologists in public schools at 3. This usually isn't a "grow out of it" problem. 

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Irate Panda

Irate Panda

4 hours ago, Absolom said:

Isn’t Jackson six now and in first grade? 

Yes, Jackson is in first grade, he will be 7 next month.  Lilah will be 5 in November and Josiah just turned 2.

 

14 hours ago, ezzy4 said:

Even their off handed remarks and laughing criticisms of their kids is just very "old school".  I don't think that's bad.  I don't think they are neglectful.

I think what really makes this stick out is that they seem to mainly only do this with one child, Lilah. I’m not sure they’re neglectful, but we have seen Zach neglect his own health issues and Tori seems to be somewhat in denial about her children‘s health issues because she doesn’t want them defined by their disabilities that she swings 180 degrees the other way.  Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen far worse parenting, but they do seem a bit off imo.

I think maybe Zach realizes he had low self esteem as a child and is trying to overcompensate with Jackson.  I think he doesn’t do that  as much with Lilah because he has said he doesn’t understand girls or what they go through growing up. Tori seems like possibly she was picked on as a child and seems resentful that Lilah will likely go through it and probably worse because she is a little person. So I think she actually resents the situation but it comes off as resenting Lilah.  FWIW I think they ove all their kids although Jackson is often favored A LOT at least on the show.

Amy and Matt were both jerks during their marriage.  They probably never should have gotten married, but both probably felt their options were limited.   They seem way happier with their current partners.  

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65mickey

65mickey

(edited)

None of us know for certain whether or not Lylah is seeing a speech pathologist. But 2 years ago they addressed Lylah's lack of speech when discussing the results of Lylah's hearing test. Tori reported that Lylah's hearing is fine and the specialist mentioned Lylah seeing a speech pathologist. But being the expert that she  purports to be Tori said that she had 'tools in her back pocket" to work with Lylah and that she has a background in child development. I am not sure if they have mentioned Lylah's delay in speech since then. From what we see on the show that was filmed last summer it doesn't look like she has progressed much.  I have no desire to watch or listen to their podcast but maybe they will address this.

Edited by 65mickey
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EastCoast4Life

EastCoast4Life

16 hours ago, JMO said:

I see them as a young couple with three special needs kids

 

16 hours ago, JMO said:

It looks like the show is winding to an end.  I enjoyed the beginning and learned something about dwarfism through it, missed a lot of the middle, and now get to wish them all well at the end.  

I agree with you. 

12 hours ago, Ms.Lulu said:

She does make odd parentling choices, like putting a toddler on a kitchen island, driving her daughter into a tree in a toy car, and favoring J.

This is what peaked my "mom radar" why is she plopped on a kitchen counter like that? They do favor J. 

6 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

I think what really makes this stick out is that they seem to mainly only do this with one child, Lilah.

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BAForever

BAForever

Really enjoy Caryn's take in TH's. She hopes they can reconnect with ZiT, but if not, it's not for lack of trying on their part. Also like that she has nixed farm for her wedding to Matt. She and Matt are good together.

ZiT are denying both their children the fun of the farm and loving, involved grandparents. They are also denying Matt and Amy the kids. 

Calling total shenanigans on "we moved for our own space, we are independent now." Did you see how both ZiT had arms crossed during that discussion? Body language suggests a different truth. 

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Mod-LunarJester
Message added by Mod-LunarJester,

Culture Check: How can the tropes and stereotypes we apply to TV personalities impact our fellow posters, and how do we remain mindful of these effects while discussing them? Please review for more on stereotypes and tropes.

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Culture Check: How can we express our opinions and consider the effect our assumptions may have on the people around us? What impact might speculation have on others, especially when we speculate about children or complex issues like neurodiversity?

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