Star Trek: Voyager - General Discussion

[Athena]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arc and moments from the show. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[SeriousPurrs]

Poor Voyager--doesn't any one remember you? I used to watch Voyager reruns every day on SPIKE. The episode I remember most clearly, Tuvix, S2-24. He was the best parts of Neelix and Tuvok. Yes, it was murder--they couldn't all live. The question was; murder one or two?

I looked up a list of episodes; some I remember, others not. There are about 100 quotes from the show at IMDB showing the dry humor of the characters.

It irritated me then, that there wasn't a Star Trek channel with all the Star Trek shows and  movies running 24/7. Would have been so convenient. Who doesn't need a little Star Trek to get you through life?

[Athena]

@SeriousPurrs : Welcome! I'm glad you are posting. This board has just been me.

 

I did a rewatch of Voyager last year, and I won't lie, it hasn't held up well. I found only a handful episodes that I loved. I watched almost all the episodes too. I think it definitely had gems, but for me, TNG is still the best and has held up well (even with all the 90sness). I will say that I still like Janeway, the Doctor, and Seven of Nine. I didn't mind Tom either but he couldn't carry an episode.

[mathewt]

I never got into Voyager when it originally ran.  I was in college for the first 4 seasons so I never had time to pick it up.  I recently got around to watching the entire series on Netflix and I was pretty pleasantly surprised.  There was a decent handful of episodes that I skipped after being bored by the concept, but overall it was a good show.  It wasn't quite DS9 level, but almost on-par with TNG at times (I loved TNG first run, but I feel like it doesn't hold up as well in rewatch for me....DS9 and Voyager's higher level of serialization work better for me than TNG's more standalone feel).

[Athena]

I watched the last few seasons when it was on. In fact, I grew to really like the show to the point wherein I watched the last season live. I really got into the Seven of Nine arc for some reason. I actually prefer her over Kes character and acting wise. They did screw Kes over in her come back episode though.

 

On rewatch, I was disappointed a bit because the show wasn't nearly as good as I remember. Alright, but it made me wonder why I loved it so much. I did genuinely like how dark the concept of it was.

[photo fox]

I loved Voyager, although I didn't get into it at first.  IIRC, Janeway (or the actress, anyway), had been on either some TNG or DS9 episodes, and I couldn't stand her, so I stayed away from VOY for a long time.  Oddly, in the end, I thought she was a great captain, and the series was my favorite.

 

I haven't rewatched since it went off the air, so my memories probably wouldn't hold up, but I loved Tom and B'Elanna, and shipped them hard.  One of my biggest disappointments about the finale was not getting to see them with their baby.

 

I liked Seven, but she kind of ate the show.

[legaleagle53]

I loved Voyager, although I didn't get into it at first.  IIRC, Janeway (or the actress, anyway), had been on either some TNG or DS9 episodes, and I couldn't stand her, so I stayed away from VOY for a long time.  Oddly, in the end, I thought she was a great captain, and the series was my favorite.

 

You're misremembering just a tad.  Neither Janeway nor Kate Mulgrew was ever on either TNG or DS9.  What you may be thinking of is a similar character, Captain Rachel Garrett, who commanded the ill-fated Enterprise-C on TNG and who was played by a different actress.

 

And personally, I feel that Janeway was the best of the five Star Trek captains.  To me, she struck the perfect balance between the stern, impartial commander who refused to put up with anyone's crap and the caring de facto mother figure who would fight to the death anyone who dared to fuck with her ship or (especially) any member of her crew.  And Kate Mulgrew was born to play the role, as far as I'm concerned, even if she was the producers' second choice.

[photo fox]

You mean... I missed out on early Voyager for NO GOOD REASON?!??!  *gasp*

 

Thanks for the correction, @legaleagle53.  I can't believe I did that.

 

I totally agree that she was the best captain.  (I was just a little afraid to type that out loud, because that's often an UO.)  I loved the fact that she was strong, and she was absolutely in charge, but I never felt like she was trying to be "one of the guys".  She was unequivocally a woman, and a fearless leader, and nobody acted like that was a thing.

[Athena]

It can't be an UO in here @photo fox . She's Our Lady of Determination.

 

She's a close second for me since Picard was my first, but I do adore Janeway as a character. Kate Mulgrew did a great job in some of the episodes and I'm so happy she's on Orange is the New Black. It's good seeing her in action again.

 

My UO is that I really like the Irish village arc. I read a lot of people hated it, but I thought Mulgrew had a lot of chemistry with that hologram pub owner.

[Maverick]

Oh my.  Fair Haven.  Yeah, I'm in the not liking that plot camp.  One of the things I dislike most about Voyager overall is how holograms/holodecks were used in the show, and used so frequently.  The Doctor was one thing and I didn't mind minor bits like Captain Proton and Janeway's Gothic holonovel.  I even liked the old school holodeck gone awry story where Seska tries to kill Tuvok.  But the Hirogen turning the ship into a holodeck, the Doctor breaking down (unable to distinguish daydreams, etc), Barclay's re-emergence of holoaddicition, the nutty alien hologram that killed his ships' crew, Doctor Zimmerman surrounding himself with holographic companions, the Hirogen holograms that took B'Elanna hostage, the whole (poorly) redone Measure of a Man plot that made holograms out to be slave labor.  It was all just annoying.   

[legaleagle53]

Yeah, the one where the Doctor created a holographic family was a tough one to get through -- especially since it had such a soap-opera cliché ending.

[Athena]

In the episode where the ship is above a planet and alters its history due to a difference in time speed (guest starring Daniel Dae Kim), the Doctor goes down onto the plant and allegedly fathers a child. I was wondering how that is possible.

 

My favourite hologram episode is the Bride of Chaotica! arc. I did find it fascinating that the real photonic aliens were all "There is no life other than photonic". I think they should have explored that a bit more than the hologram stuff. I actually liked most of the holodeck storylines, but I admit they over used.

[The Crazed Spruce]

You ask me, Seska's probably one of the best villains in all of Trekdom.  I'd put her right up there with Q, Gul Dukat, the Borg Queen, and even Khan.  (Okay, sure, Khan's definitely #1, but Seska's easily in the top 5.)

 

That's probably why one of my favourite episodes is the one with the holonovel about the Maquis mutiny.  It was a good way to bring back a great villain after killing her off.

[Vandy10]

I had a hankering for Voyager so I started watching episodes online recently. Not a complete re-watch, just picking and choosing the episodes I wanted to see again, but in order. I admit that I had a bit of a freakout when I was looking at IMDB to figure out which episodes I wanted to watch and saw that the first episode aired in 1995. Oh my, I had no idea it'd been almost 20 years since it began! I had thought I was a teen when it first aired, but I was much younger than that; I'd forgotten how long I'd been a Trek fan.

 

I have love for all the series (serieses?) of Trek (except for Enterprise; I just couldn't). TOS is where the show began, and will always be awesome for that. But TNG was my first Trek, and in some ways will probably always be my favorite for that alone. DS9 was probably the best-written (IMO), and I especially appreciate the serialization in that show because those are the kinds of shows I like. I think Voyager had the most interesting/freshest premise, but was hampered a bit by GR's vision of happiness, fluffiness and peace for the future. I love that about Trek--that it's not BSG--but at the same time I wish the psychology and the trauma that such an experience would've had on the characters had been explored a bit more. They definitely touched on it once in a while, but not enough for my tastes.

 

Oh, and whomever above mentioned shipping Paris/Torres hard gets a smile from me. Especially since I was a tween at the time, the ships always pulled my focus on the show. Even upon re-watch, I still really like their relationship. And I'm not sure if it was the writing, the acting, or a combo, but I thought B'Elanna/Dawson showed the most realistic emotional portrayal and had some of the best personal stuff on screen.

[photo fox]

Oh, and whomever above mentioned shipping Paris/Torres hard gets a smile from me. Especially since I was a tween at the time, the ships always pulled my focus on the show. Even upon re-watch, I still really like their relationship. And I'm not sure if it was the writing, the acting, or a combo, but I thought B'Elanna/Dawson showed the most realistic emotional portrayal and had some of the best personal stuff on screen.

That was me. I loved them so much. And I agree about RD. One of the episodes I remember best is when they discovered their baby had some genetic disorder. They saw a 3D rendering of her future image and B'Elanna was devestated to see that her daughter would have Klingon features. I thought that was so powerful.

[Vandy10]

I liked that episode too @photo fox. I admit, that upon rewatching, some of B'Elanna's story lines seem straight out of Psych101. My daddy abandoned me as a child and my mom's a hardass so now I'm afraid everyone will leave me and I won't let anyone get too close! But I feel that RD really did an excellent job with material that could've been schmaltzy and cringe-worthy. 

 

On the other hand, I've just realized how...um, underutilized?...the Harry Kim character was. I'm not sure if that's the right word, but the character just seems to be a bit pointless. Poor kid was just kind of there and used whenever the writers needed another person around, or someone to be the comic relief, IMO. What was his job anyway? LOL Maybe that's the danger of not having a very clearly defined job/role on the ship like the other main characters did. 

[millennium]

I had a hankering for Voyager so I started watching episodes online recently. Not a complete re-watch, just picking and choosing the episodes I wanted to see again

 

That happened to me just this past week.    I was on vacation, had some downtime, and for some reason looked up the Voyager finale on Netflix and rewatched it after all these years.

 

Maybe we both saw the same subliminal cue somewhere.

[Vandy10]

That happened to me just this past week.    I was on vacation, had some downtime, and for some reason looked up the Voyager finale on Netflix and rewatched it after all these years.

 

Maybe we both saw the same subliminal cue somewhere.

That's funny. I'm on summer holidays too, so I think I ran out of new things to watch.

[immortalfrieza]

I'd say Voyager is my favorite of all the Star Trek series, and I don't understand all the hate it gets. I didn't even know the show existed until around the time Seven of Nine joined the crew so I had a lot a catching up to do, but that didn't diminish my enjoyment of earlier seasons anyway. I think what I like best about the show is the characters because they all act a little more... well, human that the Next Generation cast did. One thing I never did like about Next Generation is how the humans in it all talk like they're some perfect evolved man from this ideal society instead of still being the same flawed human beings as ever from a just as flawed society like they really are. The Voyager crew acted a much less superior, much less stuck up holier-than-thou than the Next Generation crew did.

 

It's much the same reason I like Enterprise as well, they have the humans act much more like people than either series.

Edited August 21, 2014 by immortalfrieza

[Donny Ketchum]

I liked Seven, but she kind of ate the show.

I'm watching the series all the way through with my boyfriend on DVD, and I told him the same thing.  But it apparently didn't bother him.  She was new, and the show was trying to let people get to know her and establish her relationships with the rest of the crew.  Plus, she came on around the time the Borg were becoming the prominent villains, and she was the tie to them.  So it made sense.  I think season four was largely about Seven shedding her Borg-ness and integrating more with the crew.  Probably part of season five, as well.  At least Jeri Ryan played the part well.

 

And at least they returned the balance in season six.

[captain1]

I have always loved TNG but never watched Voyager or DSN for some reason. I love Orange is the New Black so went to Netflix to see Kate Mulgrew as Capt. Janeway. Enjoying so far! Oh and don't hate but I loved Enterprise also!

[Anna Yolei]

. I think what I like best about the show is the characters because they all act a little more... well, human that the Next Generation cast did. One thing I never did like about Next Generation is how the humans in it all talk like they're some perfect evolved man from this ideal society instead of still being the same flawed human beings as ever from a just as flawed society like they really are. The Voyager crew acted a much less superior, much less stuck up holier-than-thou than the Next Generation crew did.

FWIW, I've notice more people commenting about that aspect of TNG in recent years. I admit I'm far more of a TNG fan than Voyager, to put it in the mildest possible terms, but Gene's rule on "no conflict between the crew" did a huge disservice to that show in retrospect.

I will give Voyager its due for having the strongest first season of all the modern Trek series. There could've been more done to show the difficulties of being so far from home and having no Jupiter Station to get fixed up at, but put up against TNG and even DS9 that was trying to grab TNG fans and certainly Enterprise.....it could've been worse.

[CheersEnthusiast]

People have listed some great episodes.  One of my favorites:  Counterpoint.  Kate Mulgrew does a bang up job of acting in the series, but especially in that episode.

[CherryAmes]

Just watched the finale, wonderful end to my favourite Star Trek series.  I found that unlike Next Generation I liked all the characters and found they got stronger as the show progressed. 

 

I know the general wisdom is that Jeri Ryan was brought in as eye candy and I can't deny they certainly dressed her to accentuate her curves (to say the least) I thought she brought a lot to the show and handled some powerful storylines extremely well.

[legaleagle53]

Just watched the finale, wonderful end to my favourite Star Trek series.  I found that unlike Next Generation I liked all the characters and found they got stronger as the show progressed. 

 

I know the general wisdom is that Jeri Ryan was brought in as eye candy and I can't deny they certainly dressed her to accentuate her curves (to say the least) I thought she brought a lot to the show and handled some powerful storylines extremely well.

 

The thing is, she knew she was the eye candy, too.  As she once put it in an interview, she knew exactly what she was in for when she went for her first costume fitting.  Still, she sold the hell out of the character, to the point that it really was hard for me to get used to seeing her play other popular characters on other shows after Voyager ended.

 

And by the way, if you're not following her on Twitter, you should.  She's funny and insightful, and she can trade banter with the best of them, especially with her BFFs William Shatner and Tom Bergeron!

[CherryAmes]

Am watching an episode from the 5th season called "Relativity".  Overall a fun episode dealing with time travel.  I am annoyed by one thing though.  At one point Braxton says he's angry with Janeway because he once asked her for help and she refused.  He freaking asked her to step aside so he could destroy Voyager!  He makes it sound like she wouldn't pass the ketchup!!  I can accept that despite the fact that in the Future's End episode at the end Braxton said he "never experienced that timeline" and now we find he spent years recovering from his time on earth but it's just silly that he's angry at Janeway for not letting him  kill her and the rest of the crew!

Edited January 4, 2015 by CherryAmes

[AndySmith]

FWIW, I've notice more people commenting about that aspect of TNG in recent years. I admit I'm far more of a TNG fan than Voyager, to put it in the mildest possible terms, but Gene's rule on "no conflict between the crew" did a huge disservice to that show in retrospect.

 

That has never been a problem for me on TNG. It fit in with the show's ideal of what a utopia should be, and what we should all strive for. It worked for that show's set-up.

 

This show, on the other hand? Given the set-up, there really should have been much more conflict among the crew.

[DisneyBoy]

I was thinking about this show for the first time in a long time and remembered how much I wanted the Doctor and Seven to be a couple. It really felt like they were going for a Pygmalion vibe there and I like that she was the human with a lot of robot in her and he was the robot - well hologram - with a lot of human in him. They played off each other very well and I was curious to see how the show would deal with her trying to become more of a person while falling in love with a program. Perhaps that was overly complicated territory though, since they just sort of shoved her with Chakotay (?!?) at the very end.

I was surprised to learn through watching YouTube clips that at some point down the road the Doctor confessed his undying love to her in a scene where she looks mortified in front of the Captain and explains that he is having problems with his program. There was also a clip where Seven angrily tells the doctor she's considering ending their friendship. Does anyone know if these are from the same episode or different episodes? I would like to revisit their storyline in the series so if you guys could tell me which episodes really developed it, that would be great. Seven's first date episode Someone to Watch Over Me is probably my favorite if the series.

I didn't watch the show religiously when it first aired and I think I probably missed out on a lot of the last seasons.

Edited November 1, 2015 by DisneyBoy

[John Potts]

DisneyBoy I was surprised to learn through watching YouTube clips that at some point down the road the Doctor confessed his undying love to her in a scene where she looks mortified in front of the Captain and explains that he is having problems with his program

 

I'm not certain, but I think that was a holo simulation - it went badly, so The Doctor didn't press it IRL (well, in real Trek life!). Personally I thought that (if you think Seven had to end up with anyone) the logical choice was The Doctor. But apparently Robert Beltran was pissed off with the show and so TPTB offered him a romance with Seven if he stayed on the show (at least that's the rumour I heard)

[legaleagle53]

I'm not certain, but I think that was a holo simulation - it went badly, so The Doctor didn't press it IRL (well, in real Trek life!).

 

You're correct.  The Doctor had a holodeck program that allowed him to live out certain Walter Mitty type fantasies, one of which was a romance with Seven (there was one scene in which he imagined himself to be an artist, and she was his nude model).  Captain Janeway's favorite, though, was his fantasy of being a Captain leading Voyager during an enemy attack -- when she saw the Captain's pips appear on his collar, she snarked, "Nice touch."

[John Potts]

I'd forgotten the artist/model bit. Hmm, what with the time Q Junior came round and made her clothes disappear... and the time they got her into a leotard for that wrestling one (forget the title - it had The Rock in it) - it's almost like TPTB were trying to exploit Jeri Ryan's appearance to boost the ratings! But surely they wouldn't stoop to such base tactics...

[AndySmith]

What was his job anyway? LOL Maybe that's the danger of not having a very clearly defined job/role on the ship like the other main characters did.

 

He ran ops...basically, the same station Data worked at on TNG. So, kind of an important post ;)

[legaleagle53]

I'd forgotten the artist/model bit. Hmm, what with the time Q Junior came round and made her clothes disappear... and the time they got her into a leotard for that wrestling one (forget the title - it had The Rock in it) - it's almost like TPTB were trying to exploit Jeri Ryan's appearance to boost the ratings! But surely they wouldn't stoop to such base tactics...

 

According to an interview she and Lucy Lawless did for TVGuide about 15 years ago, she knew exactly why she was cast and what she was in for from the first time she went in for a costume fitting.  In other words, she knew she was the designated eye candy for straight male viewers (and probably not a few lesbian ones).

[DisneyBoy]

Poor Harry's one claim to fame was passing up the opportunity to get carnal with Seven. He made the right choice, but it still labeled him forevermore as a weenie.

So Chakotay threatened to walk and the producers hooked him up with Seven to keep him around? Bum deal for Jeri! I would have let him walk. Did his Maqui subplot ever go anywhere? I feel like it got lost in the shuffle.

They could have cut both Chakotay and Harry and I wouldn't have minded one bit.

Thanks for the recap on the Doctor holodeck episode. What was it called? Which season was it in?

Edited December 9, 2015 by DisneyBoy

[Miss Dee]

I always thought it was stupid that the writers didn't go for the Janeway/Chakotay romance near the end of the series. Not because I shipped them all that hard, but because it was the ONE Star Trek series where such a plot line could be explored with some thematic resonance. Most people would be in the position Picard and Wendy were in "Lessons"...it's not a good idea, so someone transfers off the ship and they keep it long-distance, or someone gives up their career, or takes a demotion, or the two simply break up.

The fascinating thing with Voyager was *none of that would have worked*. If Janeway had fallen for a member of the crew, short of a Vulcan "forget" mind-meld, what was she going to do about it? Chakotay (if that's what they had decided to go with) wouldn't be able to transfer anywhere. She can't afford to have him out of the chain of command, so leaving his field commission for a civilian life wouldn't have worked. She can't take a demotion; the crew are relying on her to go home. And they can't get away from each other, there's nowhere else to go.

So how would someone deal with an overpowering attraction and heightened feelings in a situation like that? Personally, I think Tuvok would have told her to go for it, not because he thought it was that hot of an idea but because logically none of the other solutions would have worked in their circumstances, and not acting on it would probably cause a bigger FUBAR than if she did. It would have been one of the few times where a romance for the captain and a crewmember would actually have an impact on plots and storylines. Didn't have to be Chakotay, although having it be the first officer would have been the best kind of monkey wrench to make the situation even more difficult.

I'm pretty convinced the writers didn't go there because they didn't want the one female captain/series lead in the franchise be the one who had a big romance storyline. But DAMMIT that was a waste of a good plot that literally could not have been done on any other series.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Miss Dee

[Maverick]

It was heavily implied that Janeway and Chakotay did go there in the episode where they were left behind on that planet for months. Of course in true Voyager fashion, it's never spoken of again and has no impact on future plots.

I would have preferred a Janway/Chakotay pairing if only to avoid that lame "I'm 8n love with a hologram" plot during the Fairhaven Era.

[Padma]

Happy to have found this thread! I've been rewatching Voyager and realizing that it is my favorite of all "Trek"--though so much that's good about all of them.  (For me, TNG has some of what I think are among the best individual scifi episodes -- "Darmok", "Chain of Command", at least 10 others--and Patrick Stewart makes it all work, all the time. But for me, the women are so uninteresting and I never warmed to Worf or Data, plus, I love aliens and other cultures (a big plus for "DS9") and on TNG it was often just stories with the crew or with extremely humanoid aliens--plus, it seemed they rarely went to planets. Anyway, for whatever reason, Voyager really hits the spot with the blend of alien culture, space travel, great ensemble acting and strong, likeable women--including a great female captain!  It is really underrated by so many "Trek" fans and I'm not sure why. Glad to see it getting some love here.

 

You're correct.  The Doctor had a holodeck program that allowed him to live out certain Walter Mitty type fantasies, one of which was a romance with Seven (there was one scene in which he imagined himself to be an artist, and she was his nude model).  Captain Janeway's favorite, though, was his fantasy of being a Captain leading Voyager during an enemy attack -- when she saw the Captain's pips appear on his collar, she snarked, "Nice touch."

I wanted to add something to this while it's all still fresh in my mind. The episode referenced above was so funny--and much of the running joke was how the Doctor was imagining Janeway, Torres and Seven all competing for his affections. (Of course, the real surprise was he was being monitored by aliens who thought his fantasies were real, that he really WAS that amazing, and then, of course, he had to pretend to be the captain. Anyway, it was fun.)

 

But the one where he gets down on his knees and professes his love for Seven--in front of B'lanna, Janeway, Paris, and Kim-- is the second to the last episode in S7 where he thinks he's dying and makes his "deathbed confessions" with apologies to everyone. (To Janeway, he kept a record of her "questionable decisions", to Harry, he thought his saxophone playing "was like a dying moose" and then he goes to Seven, on bended knee confessing all his feelings...only to find out, of course, that he's not dying after all. The rest of that episode was kind of "meh" but that scene made it enjoyable.)

 

It's nice to be reminded here of so many of my favorite episodes. I loved the Fair Haven episodes and Janeway's chemistry with Michael.  For me, Voyager used the holodeck so much better than any other "Trek" and many of my favorite episodes took place there ("Chaotica", the doctor's holo-novel, I liked the WWII one with the Hirogen...many others as well.)   And I'm also someone who shipped B'lanna and Tom--and then loved the way the writers brought them together so slowly, you could really feel it developing just like a real relationship would, with all the personal quirks they each had and then how they were so much better together as a couple--really could feel the support and see their communication.  Robert McNeill and Rosanna Dawson were both very good in their roles--his dryness played well off her intensity + vulnerability, she had some really good acting. I actually got a little teary eyed by them in "Workforce" when he was so sweet to her, not even knowing her.

 

All the acting on this was good, even when they weren't given much to work with. And, on rewatching, I was very impressed by Jeri Ryan. That's not an easy role, she really did a great job with it--again, a slow evolution, but never syrupy or cliché. She was perfect, but had faults--not an easy combination.

 

I love the idea of a Star Trek channel. If only!

[eurekagirl mOo]

There surely is a star trek channel. It's called netflix.

[zxy556575]

I'm currently rewatching the entire series and can affirm that it's my favorite of the franchise. I'm not a huge Trek (or scifi) fan in general but saw probably most of Voyager and TNG during their initial runs. I've caught up on the rest of Trek TV this past year, along with BSG and all the Stargates.

Others have articulated what makes Voyager resonate with them and I agree with those points, especially the admiration for Janeway. I don't dislike any of the characters (although Neelix has toed that line at times), which I can't say about the other series. I find Klingons in general to be tiresome and one-note but even B'Elanna didn't bug me, perhaps because of her "humanizing" relationship with Paris.

The recurrent fractiousness among the crew, was realistic; I think all of the main cast butted heads with or defied Janeway at some point (although I didn't remember Seven of Nine remaining as truculent as she did for so long after Voyager assimilated her). Early in season one Janeway said she had to treat this crew differently than she normally would because of their isolation; that she had to take on more of the role of confidant and counselor to them. But since she made them her family, she also gave them the power to disappoint and hurt her.

Voyager has intriguing storylines but in the end, I guess I just cared more about the ship and her crew. I like TNG a lot but honestly, it didn't hit its stride until season 2 or3, and I was indifferent to several of its cast. I pretty much couldn't stand Sisko, so DS9 was a struggle for me.

There may also be the contrarian in me that loves Voyager and Janeway just because they both get so much hate. Yes, she's a female captain. Deal with it.

I've been reading some behind-the-scenes info and gather that there were some hard feelings on Kate's part when Jennifer Lien was written off the show in order to bring on Jeri Ryan, and that they didn't get along. If true, I have to give credit to both actresses because I saw none of that on screen.

[Terrafamilia]

There were certainly some things that really bugged me about the series but I still liked it. Plus, IMO, it had the best opening music of all the Star Trek iterations.

[zxy556575]

5 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

There were certainly some things that really bugged me about the series but I still liked it. Plus, IMO, it had the best opening music of all the Star Trek iterations.

They were all certainly long!

I'm halfway through season 5 of my Voyager rewatch and have that orchestral earworm playing in my head every day. Good thing I like it.

Which things bugged you?

[Terrafamilia]

15 hours ago, lordonia said:

Which things bugged you?

It's been a while but off the top of my head I recall an over reliance on magic trek particle technobabble. Moreso than the other series. The holodeck power being incompatible somehow with that of the rest of the ship because, plot. And for some unexplained reason deuterium was a scarce resource that was very hard to come by.

[zxy556575]

1 hour ago, Terrafamilia said:

It's been a while but off the top of my head I recall an over reliance on magic trek particle technobabble. Moreso than the other series. The holodeck power being incompatible somehow with that of the rest of the ship because, plot. And for some unexplained reason deuterium was a scarce resource that was very hard to come by.

Ah, true. I pretty much tune all that out.  I'm so much of a non-techie viewer that it was only yesterday I finally looked up what "conn" meant!   :)

[SmithW6079]

On 6/5/2016 at 3:21 PM, Terrafamilia said:

It's been a while but off the top of my head I recall an over reliance on magic trek particle technobabble. Moreso than the other series. The holodeck power being incompatible somehow with that of the rest of the ship because, plot. And for some unexplained reason deuterium was a scarce resource that was very hard to come by.

The holodeck having a separate power supply bothered me at first, but then I realized that a car has two power supplies -- gasoline for the engine and a battery for the electronics, so then I was OK with it. 

[LeGrandElephant]

I just noticed this is on Netflix and I'm starting to rewatch it. Only a couple episodes in but so far I'm enjoying it. Back in the day I remember liking TNG better, but I think it hasn't held up as well for me on rewatch - maybe just because I was younger when I watched TNG. 

[LeGrandElephant]

This episode where Neelix's lungs are stolen is not so good. Don't like Janeway condemning Neelix to death or permenant paralysis because she feels it's immoral to take his lungs back from the person who stole them. She says she's in the same position the alien was in when he stole Neelix's lungs in the first place - well no, the key difference is Neelix was an innocent stranger minding his own business, and this guy is a criminal who already committed attempted murder in stealing the lungs in the first place. And her solution is just to let them go and warn them not to do it again near her. Pretty pathetic. Looks like they're coming out with a workaround to save Neelix after the fact, but that doesn't change the issues with the above decisions before they had that idea. 

[Maverick]

 I watched (or tried to watch) some first season episodes of Voyager for the first time in many years.  Caretaker was just ok.  It was a pilot so there was a lot of exposition but the biggest annoyance is still the lame plot point that sets up the entire series: the Kazon can't get the Array.  Ok, so leave behind some explosives.  Or worst case, leave behind one person to blow up the Array but let the ship get home.  Surely Janeway, being a good Starfleet captain, would make that sacrifice.  The Caretaker is just weird too.  He and his people feel guilty for destroying a world to  point where he stays around for thousands of years.  But he has no qualms about stealing ships from around the galaxy and ripping their crews away from home.  Killing some of them is bad enough but he can't send the rest back where got them?  Glad his sense of responsibility has limits.   Several of the early episodes are tedious retreads of old Trek episodes and sci fi tropes.   Parallax, The Cloud and Time and Again are pretty big snoozers.  Ex Post Facto is just dreadful.  It's a bad take on TNG's "A Matter of Perspective" (which wasn't a good ep to start with).  Paris being inappropriate with an alien chick, being accused of a love triangle murder.   Tuvok playing Jessica Fletcher was enough, but the ending was cringworrthy.  In a scene practically ripped from a Perry Mason episode, Tuvok implicates the killer by letting in the family dog to prove he had been to the house before.  A dog.  A freakin alien dog makes the ID that gets Paris off the hook.   There were a couple of bright spots.  The Vidians are somewhat interesting...but I had to fast forward through all the Neeelix crap.  Janeway's mixture of disgust, anger, hatred and pity for the Vidians was well played.   Eye of the Needle had some good moments.  I like Janeway building her rapport with the Romulan captain.  I did feel bad for the Doctor when he asked to be turned off before they left because although apparently no one thought that far ahead, if they had been able to beam back they would have destroyed the ship.   

[readster]

I agree looking back at the first season. Caretaker's motivation and what he did just didn't make sense. Even worst in season 2 when we met Sisperia and her motivation was: "You killed him and destroyed his array because I heard it from the Kazon, and we know how trustworthy they are." That was just horrible and we never even saw her again when she realized that they didn't do that and never showed up again. I know the real reason was that both Rick Bergman and Michael Piller said they tried and tried, but could not figure out how to bring her in a organic way that would lead to the crew coming home and turned to the Borg because they had built it up and figured out how to do it with some time travel thrown in because they were obsessed with time travel in the last couple years of the show. Speaking of the Kazon, that's what really was a problem, they were pretty much explained not only in the pilot but several other episodes about how they were such scum and listening to them was stupid. Yet, they had all these other races get told by the Kazon that the crew of the Voyager was not to be trusted and it happened more when they introduced the Tragg, but it made it so stupid. Why they finally left them behind in season 3 and didn't see them but in flashbacks and the time travel episodes in the final season. Because the writers said they were tired of dealing with them and they had gotten boring to write. 

Edited August 4, 2016 by readster

[Maverick]

 Watched some more season one episodes.   Prime Factors and State of  Flux were some of my favorite episodes in the original run.  Prime Factors is good because of the ethical implications Janeway and the crew wrestle with.  Yes, introducing new stories to a culture driven by them could change the dynamics of the planet, but it was hardly on par with the (already thin) protecting a society from being invaded.  It was interesting having Tuvok and Carey flip and try to obtain/use the technology.  I tend to agree with what Tuvok did.  Janeway really should have taken the hit and the tech...even if it meant she was court martialed.  The episode really suffers from the casting. The aliens of the week that flirt with Janeway and Harry leave much to be desired.   The biggest issue with the plot, though, is the ending:  it has to be used at the planet and it's incompatible with Federation technology.   Pretty lame cop out.  I did enjoy Janeway chewing Tuvok out...and him basically telling her not to lecture him on logic.

 State of Flux is interesting because you have someone from the Maquis not falling in line and being honored to be a Starfleet officer and trying to live up to it.  The reveal that Seska was was a nice twist for this show and I got a laugh that yet another member of Chakotay's crew was a spy.  One of the bigger problems with the episode is that  there's not enough suspects.  From the beginning, Seska is the biggest suspect because she's a Maquis and caught near the Kazon.  Carey's tossed out as a possible suspect but it's a half-hearted attempt at best.  The mention the covert messages could have been sent by anyone in engineering but B'Elanna's never considered?  Or any of the other Maquis in engineering?   It just all leads to a very predictable ending with her revealed as the traitor.  It would have been far more interesting if they had more reason to be suspicious of Carey early in the episode, but kept doing the story as written with more mounting evidence against Seksa and still have the Cardassian reveal.  Have the crew believe she's a traitor and lock her up, until somehow they finally discover it's been Carey all along.  They could have mined a lot from Janeway having to deal with a Cardassian spy on her ship who's been working as a productive member of her crew and wanted to continue to do so.  Would she trust her?  Would Seska always been the first blamed every time something went wrong?  If Janeway treated her different just because she was a Cardassian then Captain Principles would have been a racist.  Seska had solid relationships with Chakotay and Torres that could have been explored post-reveal.  Janeway's stone cold look when Seska put her on blast was awesome, but I would have traded it in for Seska staying and use being spared every bit of nonsense that came after.   Unfortunately, for a show that screamed out for recurring secindary (and even tertiary) characters, the writers could never be bothered to focus on anyone outside the main cast. 

[SmithW6079]

I've been watching "Voyager" on Heroes & Icon channel, and if I didn't hate him the first time around, I absolutely despise Neelix this time: his bragging, the way he pushed himself into everything, and most of all, his controlling, obsessive behavior with Kes. 

And speaking of Kes, how did they meet if the Ocampa were squirreled away underground by the Caretaker?

I enjoyed "Voyager" at the time, because I always liked Kate Mulgrew.