S07.E04: The Spoils of War

[Pogojoco]

Just now, Oscirus said:

For Dany maybe. Dany burning the food will likely be used to rile the people against Dany even more.

Yeah, that's who I mean. With all the discussion both in the North about transporting food to Winterfell and also Cersei capturing High Garden for the goods, and with winter coming. It's gonna be a problem.

 

Or should be. 

[Constantinople]

2 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

But Cersei says that Jaime is personally overseeing it's transport to KL.  And we saw Jaime open at least one of the wagons full of gold.  I don't see how the gold is already there?

Jaimie opened the wagon at the start of the episode, the battle was at the end.

[GrailKing]

8 minutes ago, Pogojoco said:

I actually wondered if a line like "Was I ever on your list?" from Sansa to Arya, even as a joke, wouldn't have been out of order. 

Good thing Ned gave her that talk.

[ChipBach]

wrong place - gods please breath drogan fire on this reply...

Edited August 7, 2017 by ChipBach

[FnkyChkn34]

1 minute ago, Pogojoco said:

Tarly said so. 

I'll have to watch again; I don't recall him saying that.  But I think there is a huge discrepancy here then, because two characters said two different things, and we also saw something different on the screen.

Just now, Constantinople said:

Jaimie opened the wagon at the start of the episode, the battle was at the end.

Sure, but the Tarlys were still with Jaime at the end during the battle as well.  How would Randall Tarly know if the gold was secured in KL?  

[MrsR]

17 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

And England lost the Hundred Years War

After 130 years. And it took a mad king and an English Civil war to do it.

 

I give them credit for sending their effed up royal genetic material over to the English throne. Made all the difference.

Edited August 7, 2017 by MrsR

[nodorothyparker]

1 minute ago, Oscirus said:

Dany burning the food will likely be used to rile the people against Dany even more.

The propaganda writes itself.  These horrible foreign invaders attacked and burned our soldiers, men who like you are actually from here!, alive when they were bringing food to the city from the Reach.  It's their fault you're starving.

Tarly very definitely told Jaime the gold had made it safely back to the city.  The Iron Bank gets paid, and as we saw will thus be happy to help Cersei finance another army.

[Constantinople]

2 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

The propaganda writes itself.  These horrible foreign invaders attacked and burned our soldiers, men who like you are actually from here!, alive when they were bringing food to the city from the Reach.  It's their fault you're starving.

Tarly very definitely told Jaime the gold had made it safely back to the city.  The Iron Bank gets paid, and as we saw will thus be happy to help Cersei finance another army.

Which is why the propaganda can be turned on its head.  Cersei saved the gold, not the food.

[nodorothyparker]

True enough, if anyone outside of the Lannisters and Tarlys know about the gold.  I don't imagine there will be that many people left alive in a position to know.

[sacrebleu]

Quote

And we saw Jaime open at least one of the wagons full of gold.  I don't see how the gold is already there?

Quote

Tarly said so. 

 

 

I'll have to rewatch-- but I believe he said half had been delivered. (It also explains how all the gold could be delivered if Jamie was with a wagonfull.

 

As for Dany burning the food. Sure it would be great if she could have saved some, but a fire-breathing dragon is not a precision instrument. You say, 'Dracarys' it breaths fire-- maybe they'll work on accuracy for the next battle?

[stagmania]

12 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

This makes great sense, but it just seems so abrupt.  In last season's finale, Bran is normal Bran.  I believe he even refers to Benjen as "Uncle" when they're dropped off at the Wall.  Yet this season he's suddenly emotionless.  Which means the change occurred off camera, which is always a cheaper way to do things.

11 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

#JUSTICEFORMEERA is right. That was the coldest goodbye/reakup EVER. If Bran see everything now that he is the Three Eyed-Raven, shouldn't he see what is like to have manners? That was a horrible dismissal and I'm pissed no one said "thank you" to Meera. I'm sure they could have cut some soldier dying in the battler and have a 15 seconds scene with Sansa thanking Meera. 

Here's my biggest issue with this story: they did it so lazily, and didn't honor the characters with their choices. I'm not opposed to a little romantic pain, especially in an epic like this. If they wanted to tell a story about Meera supporting and protecting Bran and falling for him along the way, and Bran coming to care deeply for Meera and seeing possibilities there, only for his transformation into a tree to abruptly change him and their relationship, I'd be all for it. Give me the unrequited love tragedy. But that's not really what they did. Bran and Meera's relationship never really got fleshed out or progressed, Bran's sudden personality change didn't track with the actual timeline of events or develop at all naturally, and there was hardly a deep relationship there for us to feel the pain of severing. If anything, it came across as minor one-way pining and then Meera being offended to be brushed off without a proper thank you. It's disappointing when it's so easy to see how it could've been much better with some small tweaks and comparable screentime. What a waste.

11 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

The scene with Davos and Jon that led up to it was really strange too.  Its almost like Davos has become giddy over having a King that he respects.  And he's displaying it through some guy ritual where strong feelings are portrayed through ribbing and pranks and joking.  Or like he's testing him to make sure Jon's priorities aren't changing.  As if he's showing just enough lack of deference  to make sure Jon hasn't turned into Stannis and still cares more about saving everyone than being King.  But whenever anyone else doesn't address Jon with the proper language, Davos points it out fast.

I mean Davos, who was illiterate until Shireen taught him to read, grammar checked the KITN tonight.  Its odd.

I confess I have no idea what they're doing with Davos this season. The interactions with Missandei have been bizarre and unfocused. 

7 hours ago, anamika said:

When it comes to Sansa, it's really hard to tell what's going on with the character. Poor acting does not help.

Sansa is essentially a rorschach test for the audience. People see what they want based on how they choose to view her character, and the relatively inscrutable acting choices make it really easy to project any emotion you'd like. This is why I find the endless debates about her feelings and reactions pretty pointless.

3 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Littlefinger distinctly clocked Arya's explanation of the source of her training.  IMO he knew what it meant, even if Brienne and everyone else had no clue. 

Oh, that's an interesting theory. I didn't really catch anything like that, but I'll have to rewatch.

49 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah, I think the chemistry between Kit/Emilia is getting better.  

Chemistry is highly subjective, so I won't say that anyone is wrong to think it's better or worse. But for me, I'm still not really feeling it. There's a distinct lack of magnetism between them; I can tell that I'm supposed to think they're hot for each other, but it's mostly the cues around them (dark cave, close proximity, low talking, other characters making eyes or comments) conveying that rather than any energy they're generating.

[vesperholly]

12 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I like that they are doing a slow burn on the chemistry front with Jon and Dany.  It only makes sense.   They are two people with very different experiences and outlooks, brought together under tumultuous circumstances after each of them has undergone incredible challenges to find themselves in this place together -- with very different priorities and semi juxtaposed goals.  I am NOT referring to romantic chemistry, although last night's episode gave significant indications that is likely where we're headed.  I'm disappointed at that idea, simply because I would have loved for a show that has provided so many unexpected deaths and has so much detail and so many potential plot twists I don't want to see them go down a conventional idea with these two characters -- oh, let's make the male and female a love story.  I wanted it in book one or two.  Now I'd like to see them insure Cersei's map needs some serious touchups.

The only reason I considered Jamie might be in jeopardy last night was Tyrion standing there on the hillside, heart in his throat -- clearly wanting a victory for Dany, but not wanting his brother's demise.  I do agree, Jamie is once more slated for captivity.

I feel it from Kit - he was giving it his all with the smouldering and the sexy eyes in that cave - but I'm getting nada from Emilia. I don't think she's a particularly nuanced actress - lots of wide eyes and yelling. The line from Missandei about how all these people chose to follow Dany, but yet I almost was rooting for Jamie to take her out with the spear.

Just now, sacrebleu said:

As for Dany burning the food. Sure it would be great if she could have saved some, but a fire-breathing dragon is not a precision instrument. You say, 'Dracarys' it breaths fire-- maybe they'll work on accuracy for the next battle?

Yeah, but she neatly dracarys'd right up the wagon line. I didn't see many soldiers there. Not that the entire field being on fire wouldn't have eventually set the food on fire, but it seemed a deliberate choice.

11 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I mean Davos, who was illiterate until Shireen taught him to read, grammar checked the KITN tonight.  Its odd.

Well, he did only grammar check him on the specific thing that Stannis had said. So maybe that's his one bit of grammatical knowledge? I can also get behind Jon having a less thorough education than the other Starks due to being a bastard. Hell, plenty of educated people today get fewer/less than wrong.

[Tikichick]

14 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I think whoever speculated that in the show LF was setting things in motion is spot on.  The scene felt a bit like LF was bragging.

I don't know if I'd call it bragging, but I think we have been seriously missing the boat regarding who, or what, LF may be.  I never noticed anything until this season, but IMO something much bigger than him simply being a player and manipulator is afoot.  

I think back to last and previous seasons' discussions about LF seemingly able to teleport around the realm, even through the midst of serious battles and now wonder about that in new light.  Perhaps not simply overlooked logistics in writing afterall.  This week's scenes where he watches Arya sent my mind drifting to another character who was often seen observing the going's on quite inscrutably.  Only last week he gave an unmistakably spot on explanation of Bran's outlook as TER in the immediate moments before Bran showed up at the gate.  This week he took note of Bran's chaos is a ladder comment and didn't seem confused.  He was also conveniently onhand when Meera arrived to say her goodbyes to Bran.  

He's significantly an observer to many things having connection with magic.  I no longer believe it's coincidence.

[DarkRaichu]

8 minutes ago, sacrebleu said:

I'll have to rewatch-- but I believe he said half had been delivered. (It also explains how all the gold could be delivered if Jamie was with a wagonfull.

 

As for Dany burning the food. Sure it would be great if she could have saved some, but a fire-breathing dragon is not a precision instrument. You say, 'Dracarys' it breaths fire-- maybe they'll work on accuracy for the next battle?

Nope, she specifically targeted those wagons during her dragon flybys 

Edited August 7, 2017 by DarkRaichu

[FnkyChkn34]

8 minutes ago, sacrebleu said:

I'll have to rewatch-- but I believe he said half had been delivered. (It also explains how all the gold could be delivered if Jamie was with a wagonfull.

 

As for Dany burning the food. Sure it would be great if she could have saved some, but a fire-breathing dragon is not a precision instrument. You say, 'Dracarys' it breaths fire-- maybe they'll work on accuracy for the next battle?

That dragon was pretty darn accurate...  Watch again, and you'll see that it does a perfect line directly down the road and all of the wagons.  The line of men is standing right next to it and they are untouched (at least that time around).  

And half might make a little more sense?  Like I said, I need to rewatch as well, but it still doesn't make sense to me.

[Constantinople]

4 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

True enough, if anyone outside of the Lannisters and Tarlys know about the gold.  I don't imagine there will be that many people left alive in a position to know.

If they transported enough gold to pay off the crown's entire debt to the Iron Bank, it would be impossible for people not to notice the sheer size of the wagon train to King's Landing.  Even if none of the soldiers talked about what's in the wagons, which seems unlikely, rumors are bound to start, if only because people will figure out it wasn't grain.

This isn't to say that everyone will take Daenerys's side, but it's not as if the Lannisters, and Cersei in particular, are some beloved family.

[Tikichick]

14 hours ago, alaynestone said:

Wooow, this episode was great.  So many things happened.

The best thing about this season being shorter is they're not needlessly stretching plot lines out.  If this were any other season, it was have taken probably till the final episode to have not only have Arya finally come home, but have all 3 Starks reunite with each other.  It's so surreal to see them all together again.  I'll have to re-watch their scenes.

I'm still so mad at what they've done to Bran's character.  Basically murder him as Meera said.  I get he has to be changed somewhat, but come on, the last three eyed raven wasn't so emotionless.  Bran's acting colder than when Sam from Supernatural lost his soul.  I'm only praying that since they've literally pointed out how cold he is, that the old Bran will hopefully, somewhat come back - please.

 

Every time Jon and Dany are on the screen it's a good time.  I love their interactions with each other.  I have to say though, I'm probably in the minority that DOESN'T want them to be romantic with each other.  I get it's Game of Thrones and the Targaryens are known for incest, but ugh, I can't cannot get behind that.  Besides, Jon was raised as a Stark and I don't really see him going for it once he knows they're related..  Eh, idk, it'll probably happen, but I really wish it wouldn't.

 

The battle at the end was marvelous and breathtaking.  Glad to see the other side suffer some losses.  Although, the whole time I kept screaming at Dany to retreat with her dragon after the first couple displays of firepower.  I think Drogon will be ok in the long run, but geez, she was cutting it close there.  Was it just me, or did it almost seem like she stuck around more than necessary?  She kept firing at them when it was apparent they were gonna lose.... more of the Mad Queen coming out, Dany?

IDK, show Bran versus what I had in my mind's eye about Bran's fate in the books gives us a more humane, intact Bran.  Frankly in the books I was understanding him becoming a literal part of the weirwood trees root systems, which I understood were magical.  However, I was having a hard time accepting the little boy I met who found such great joy in climbing towers and had thoughts of flying free was physically going to be forever underground, part of  a tree. 

It is difficult watching this remote, detached person onscreen and feeling like that little boy is dead and gone.  But I really don't know that's all that much of a departure from the books in a sense.

[nodorothyparker]

I have no idea what they're going for with Davos either.  One of the things I've liked best about him both book and show is that he's clear-eyed enough not to be taken in by every inflated or outlandish thing he hears and that he's usually pretty good about cutting through the talk to get to the actual truth of things.  Yet one episode after he was doing his best "well then ..." deadpan to the introduction of Dany of the 20 titles he's apparently not only doing whatever it is he's doing with Missandei but believing it must be true enough to joke about switching teams and join Dany's all-star fluffing team.

I can't presume to know how closely the comings and goings of wagons are watched by the average citizen, but these are the same people who last week were cheering crown ally Euron dragging crown enemies through the streets.  If they're told it's Go Team Dragons that burned all their food while Go Team Dragons is sitting outside their gates trying to starve them out, they may well be inclined to believe it.

[Raachel2008]

13 hours ago, LanceM said:

"They won't obey you, unless they fear you"   -Olenna Tyrell

People use that line like it was a super great advice, and I roll my eyes. The very people who 'obey' Dany are not the ones who fear her, but the ones who respects her: the Unsillied, the Dothraki, the Greyjoys represented by Yara, Tyrion, Daario, Sor Barristan, Tyrion, Missandei. Olenna herself didn't fear Dany, she just wanted her revenge, as well as Ellaria.  If and when Jon bends the knee, it won't be because he fear her either.

Ruling by fear will only take you so far; eventually either people stop fearing you or they find someone else they fear more.

 

12 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

So that's my new wild-ass speculation:  Dany takes two husbands -- Jon & Bronn (because they can both pilot dragons) and they all fly into battle against the Night King together.  Dickon ends up with Sansa (one of those marriages after a war to heal the breach and they live happily ever after).  And Pod falls in love with Arya (he admires warrior women now) and Arya marries him to avoid being promised in marriage to anyone else because no way is she going to suffer Sansa's fate.  And then she finds out what all those whores in Kings Landing found out and THEY live happily ever afte

Never happening. Never ever ever ever.

12 hours ago, SeanC said:

In the show's version of Dorne, everybody hates Doran for not going to war against the Lannisters.  That's why Ellaria was able to murder him in front of his own guards and nobody did a thing, and why she was able to rule Dorne afterward without a peep.

Was that on screen, I mean the part where the entire Dorne wanted to go to war? Because I cannot remember.

12 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Ultimately Dany ignored both Tyrion and Jon and did what she wanted. She took Oleana's advice.

She did not. She chose the middle ground. Olenna only wanted one thing: to see Cersei dead. If Dany had followed Olenna's advice, the Red Keep would be a mountain of ashes right now, as well as all the servants, civilians, etc. Dany actually used what Jon told her to find a way to be a dragon while being different from all the other people.

12 hours ago, anamika said:

Not at all. Jon is asking Dany to commit her forces - people who followed her to Westeros to fight for the throne - to fight an yet unseen threat. Dany is willing to do that - but in return she wants his assurance that after it is over, the North is part of the 7K and not fighting Dany for independence. There should be give and take on both sides.

The thing is that she wants him to bend the knee now, before helping him. It is not a wrong movie from her part; at the same time it is not a wrong movie on his part to want to be helped before bedning the knee; Jon was stabbed by his own man and has seen the North Houses retreating when he needed them before BoB. He cannot be sure she will happen him now, because her main concern is beating the Lannisters right now. I can see both sides, there is no easy way there.

3 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Littlefinger distinctly clocked Arya's explanation of the source of her training.  IMO he knew what it meant, even if Brienne and everyone else had no clue. 

Agreed, and if we want to ho way baaack, no way LF didn't know Ned hired Syrio Forel to teach Arya.

2 hours ago, MrsR said:

They're the French. The flowers represent the Fleur de Lis. The food, the fashion, the flowers, I've always seen them as the French thus I never expected them to be good fighters.

That's nonsense, France (and what later became France) was as military power in Europe for centuries until WWII. Napoleon won most of his wars, France was a whole won lost of its battles during history.

1 hour ago, MrsR said:

This is England against France in the 14th and 15th centuries

And France won the Hundred Years War and reclaimed almost all the territories lost, so I can't really get the comparison. The Frenchs were 'good fighters' have always been.

[MV713]

7 hours ago, mojoween said:

Especially since I rewound that three times before I gave up and still didn't know what he said until I came here.  

this is why I watch with captions on.

[Raachel2008]

23 minutes ago, vesperholly said:

I can also get behind Jon having a less thorough education than the other Starks due to being a bastard.

I disagree, Jon got exactly the same education. That is what Tyrion pointed to him at the wall, when he said he was better than Grenn and the others: they weren't lucky enough to have be trained by Sir Rodrik. In the books it is very clear that he was taught writing, reading, math, just like Robb.

[iMonrey]

I don't think I've ever been so emotionally invested in a television show until this very episode. Ever since they revealed Chekhov's Ballista several episodes ago, I have been dreading the eventuality that it would be used, perhaps successfully. Especially since we've seen one big win after another for Cersei. And the "previouslies" included it as well, so I knew it was going to come up somewhere in this episode.

So while I was literally jumping out of my seat and cheering the moment the Dothraki hoard showed up, followed by Drogon, followed by the pants-shitting look on Jamie Lannister's face, my heart was in my throat the whole time, waiting for this showdown between Dragon and Weapon. 

And lo and behold, as I watched one of my very favorite characters in the whole show run for that weapon, I was wishing like crazy somebody would kill him. Sorry, I love you Bronn, but you're fighting for the wrong side. It really scared the shit out of me that he might succeed in killing Drogon and when that spear hit him I screamed "NO" like you wouldn't believe. That was just really hard to watch.

Now, assuming Cersei's forces aren't building hundreds of those damn weapons like they should be, I'm hoping against hope they've dispensed with the giant crossbow idea once and for all. Dani should send advance forces to take out the ballistas before riding in.

The whole battle scene was epic though and it affected me in a way it just shouldn't. I have to keep reminding myself there's not really a dragon, y'know? He better be OK, that's all I'm saying.

Quote

Boo for Dany flying directly at the damn thing instead of circling around and flambeing it from behind.

In hindsight I thought of that as well. She saw the damn weapon, the first shot sailed right over her shoulder. I'm chalking it up to hubris that she took a straight shot at it instead of circling around. I've read upthread that the weapon appears to be mounted on a swivel  so Bronn could theoretically swing it around in the other direction but really, how quickly could he do that with such a heavy piece of machinery? Plus there's ample opportunity for Drogon to make a smoke screen envelope him completely so he can't even see what direction the dragon is coming from. 

Hopefully Dani has learned her lesson and will be on the lookout in future battles.

[MrsR]

15 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

And France won the Hundred Years War and reclaimed almost all the territories lost, so I can't really get the comparison.

But Napoleon lost as well.

Twice, went into exile twice. Moscow.  Nuff said.  

And like I said, Mad King, English civil war.

 

Please don't make me tell that joke about the trees and the Champs Elysee. 

 

Would it be better if I said that High Garden was France because the Tyrells were lovers not fighters?

Edited August 7, 2017 by MrsR

[DarkRaichu]

14 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I have no idea what they're going for with Davos either.  One of the things I've liked best about him both book and show is that he's clear-eyed enough not to be taken in by every inflated or outlandish thing he hears and that he's usually pretty good about cutting through the talk to get to the actual truth of things.  Yet one episode after he was doing his best "well then ..." deadpan to the introduction of Dany of the 20 titles he's apparently not only doing whatever it is he's doing with Missandei but believing it must be true enough to joke about switching teams and join Dany's all-star fluffing team.

He sensed what was needed by his master and acted accordingly.  He sensed Jon was too tense so he cracked jokes but Stannis needed someone pragmatic without joking around

[Dev F]

43 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'll have to watch again; I don't recall him saying that.  But I think there is a huge discrepancy here then, because two characters said two different things, and we also saw something different on the screen.

He did indeed say it: "All the gold's safely through the gates of King's Landing." But it's not an inconsistency; it just means a significant amount of time passed after the earlier scenes in which the gold was still in transit. Indeed, it seems like Tarly's report was specifically designed to indicate said passage of time. As was the earlier scene in which they made clear that it would take more time to collect the grain than the gold, and that Bronn would help with said collection. So when we see Bronn later with the supply train, we have to assume that he's finished "motivating reluctant farmers" and the grain he helped to collect is in transit.

[lorbeer]

Could someone remind me who did LF told "chaos is a ladder" to?

[TarotQueen]

14 hours ago, screamin said:

He's mentioned his son, but IIRC not his wife. Maybe they're setting him up to be a widower and prospective sperm donor for Missandei and Grey Worm.

He told Shireen he had a wife he loved very much at some point around the time she was teaching him to read.

[DarkRaichu]

17 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

Was that on screen, I mean the part where the entire Dorne wanted to go to war? Because I cannot remember.

As far as we saw on screen, Dorne consisted of 15 maybe 20 people, ie we never saw their army

[MrsR]

Varys.

[screamin]

2 minutes ago, TarotQueen said:

He told Shireen he had a wife he loved very much at some point around the time she was teaching him to read.

Did he say it in the past tense, as you do here?

[Dev F]

3 minutes ago, lorbeer said:

Could someone remind me who did LF told "chaos is a ladder" to?

Lord Varys, when he gloated to him about arranging Ros's murder just before he left King's Landing.

[Macbeth]

5 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

"Chaos is a ladder" is still one of my favorite lines on the show and to see it thrown back in Littlefinger's face was satisfying. It seemed to me like Bran connected that dot just then when Littlefinger talked about chaos swallowing him. 

Which was LF's major mistake,  by talking to Bran - Bran then focused on him and immediately came up with LF's motto.  So Bran is doing better at sorting though the imagery.  I don't really blame LF, as he wouldn't really understand computer technology.  

Bran's brain is Google.  He put in Littlefinger's name in the search bar - and immediately Littlefinger's Wikipedia page popped up.

[Drogo]

5 minutes ago, lorbeer said:

Could someone remind me who did LF told "chaos is a ladder" to?

He said this to Varys in the throne room, talking about his own manipulations/using chaos to climb upwards in Westeros.  Chaos is "what's left when the lies are gone." Bran repeats it back to him as a sort of "I know what you did to my family."

[nodorothyparker]

8 minutes ago, lorbeer said:

Could someone remind me who did LF told "chaos is a ladder" to?

Varys, in response to Varys saying chaos is a pit.  "Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, some are given a chance to climb. They refuse, they cling to the realm or the gods or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is."

[Francie]

2 hours ago, Edith said:

I don't know if D&D are going somewhere with this or is a plotline that is going nowhere, but they are mentioning a lot about the food and how important it is

From Cersei and Jaime's conversation, Sansa mentioning it too and now Dany saying that she didn't have food for her army's.

It's absolutely going somewhere.  The first episode shows a man and daughter murder/suiciding themselves due to starvation We have Sansa and Jaime fretting about food. 

This whole story is going to the fact that the leaders of Westeros chose to fight each other rather than grow and store food for the winter.  The Riverlands has been devastated for years. The Reach's food destroyed.  King's Landing common folks have been starving for years.  At this rate, I'm hard pressed to see more than 10 to 20% of the general population surviving this upcoming winter.  

The end will be bittersweet, indeed. 

[Tikichick]

13 hours ago, Constantinople said:

It seems Qyburn's contraption isn't much use unless you luck out and get a head shot

So you either need a lot more of them being fired at the same time, or you need a much more powerful one that would likely have to be operated by multiple men

Wasn't every blacksmith in KL working on building them?

[Francie]

 Well, he did only grammar check him on the specific thing that Stannis had said. So maybe that's his one bit of grammatical knowledge? I can also get behind Jon having a less thorough education than the other Starks due to being a bastard. Hell, plenty of educated people today get fewer/less than wrong.

Exactly my thought too. It's a common mistake that even the well-educated make.

They both probably say "could care less," all because Stannis wasn't around one time to correct Davos. 

[Colorful Mess]

Here we are in the final act, and I'm surprised by how little the Night's Watch vows mattered in the grand scheme of things. After ADWD book readers were endlessly debating Jon's actions at the end of that book, if he acted out of line with the Watch, and the implications of him breaking his oath - yet so far in the show we haven't had any reaction to Jon's change in status. Nevermind that he died - how did he get out of his Night's Watch oath to become a political player? I thought Arya, Sansa, or Tyrion at least might broach the subject. Its driving me nuts.

Speaking of Arya, that focus on the dagger and Sansa's morbid comment makes me wonder if she's Azor Ahai to Jon's Nissa Nissa?

The conversation with Missandei, Jon, and Davos was very mechanical, however, it seems like they are setting up a conflict between Dany and Missandei over Grey Worm, once he dies (c'mon, we know its inevitable). Maybe she does want to leave - would Dany be "ok fine bye!"?

Arya and Brienne's sparring was neat and all, but again its an instance of the show runners choosing the "wouldn't it be cool...?" option instead of an actual heart-to-heart scene with Arya and Sansa--the two characters who matter. Their reunion felt flat to me (also DARK, I couldn't see a thing) and I'd rather see them reminiscing over old times, like Jon and Sansa did. I needed a more overt "water under the bridge" moment.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Colorful Mess

[YaddaYadda]

1 minute ago, Colorful Mess said:

Their reunion felt flat to me and I'd rather see them reminiscing over old times, like Jon and Sansa did. I needed a more overt "water under the bridge" moment.

Every reunion has felt flat since Jon/Sansa last season. I'm not a Sansa fan and I felt emotional over that reunion, even teared up. I still feel emotional over it. 

Hopefully the Jon/Arya reunion will be better.

I'm not counting on anything different from Bran. 

Bran: I saw your birth. It was a bloody mess. She died. 

[Francie]

40 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I have no idea what they're going for with Davos either.  One of the things I've liked best about him both book and show is that he's clear-eyed enough not to be taken in by every inflated or outlandish thing he hears and that he's usually pretty good about cutting through the talk to get to the actual truth of things.  Yet one episode after he was doing his best "well then ..." deadpan to the introduction of Dany of the 20 titles he's apparently not only doing whatever it is he's doing with Missandei but believing it must be true enough to joke about switching teams and join Dany's all-star fluffing team.

They're using Davos to do some plot propping, so it feels weird. One of the unfortunate side effects of D&D not having GRRM's prose and dialogue to guide them, and trying to shove the last 2 books (or 3 or 4, if GRRM lives forever and writes every word he means to write on these characters) into 13 episodes.  

I took Missandei's fluffing of Dany as a set up for a time, down the road, when Dany turns on them and treats them as chattel.  Yes, they are free so long as she's winning or they do as she asks.  Take both of those factors away, and we'll see what she's made of. 

[DarkRaichu]

5 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

Here we are in the final act, and I'm surprised by how little the Night's Watch vows mattered in the grand scheme of things. After ADWD book readers were endlessly debating Jon's actions at the end of that book, if he acted out of line with the Watch, and the implications of him breaking his oath - yet so far in the show we haven't had any reaction to Jon's change in status. Nevermind that he died - how did he get out of his Night's Watch oath to become a political player? I thought Arya, Sansa, or Tyrion at least might broach the subject. Its driving me nuts.

First part of the NW's oath "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death..."  Jon was technically dead so he was no longer bound by that oath.

[Tikichick]

13 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

Shouldn't Podrick be a better swordsman by now? Didn't we see Podrick last season fighting along Brienne against the soldiers chasing Sansa and Theon?

 

Possibly Pod is fantastic fighting your average soldiers.  Pod is training with Brienne to be a knight, which is a step up.  And to be fair, Brienne kicks ass as a knight -- ask the Hound.

[GrailKing]

4 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Littlefinger distinctly clocked Arya's explanation of the source of her training.  IMO he knew what it meant, even if Brienne and everyone else had no clue. 

Being from Bravos or ties to it, he with his connections, would have heard those words a few times in his life.

[Tikichick]

13 hours ago, Constantinople said:

The soldiers weren't marching against Daenerys nor were they on a dragon hunting expedition.  They were marching back to Kings Landing when they defended themselves from an attack

More to the point, the soldiers are essentially as unarmed as civilians when facing dragon fire

They were soldiers marching back with spoils, spoils obtained after directly engaging forces pledged to Dany's side.

[Hana Chan]

1 hour ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Is Dany an idiot, or a f*cking idiot?  She had a nice little speech about how she needed resources, both food and money/gold, and that she's running out.  She'll soon be unable to feed her massive armies.  The Lannisters stole it all, yes.  So what does she do?  LIGHTS IT ALL ON FIRE?!!!?!  She couldn't have defeated the Lannister army without burning all of the supply wagons, too?  I mean, really.  Now everyone, both armies and peasants alike, have no food.  She's an idiot.

Breaking out Drogon certainly made sure that not a single kernel of grain was going to make it back to her stores. Dany might be intelligent about some things, but her long-range planning absolutely sucks. Sure, take out the Lannister forces (which her Dorthraki were doing very neatly), but the problem with using the dragons is that the destruction tents to get a bit more wide spread than you might want.

And my bigger issue with her is that she's still seeing everything through the lens of getting the Iron Throne first, and then dealing with whatever issues may pop up. She's not taking Jon nearly as seriously as she should, because all of this fighting about who's ass sits on the IT is just making the continent less able to handle what's going to come through (around/over?) the Wall. Nor is she giving Jon any reason to even consider going along. Promising aid after she gets the throne (assuming that she does) is not going to motivate someone who sees the White Walkers being a much bigger and more immediate threat than Cersi.

And seriously... if she wants to bring the North back into the fold, why not propose marriage? She left her boy toy back in Merran in order to leave herself available for an alliance marriage and here is a very good looking, very single leader of the largest chunk of land in Westeros. If there is anyone that Dany should be considering a strategic marriage to, Jon would be at the top of anyone's list. 

[Tikichick]

12 hours ago, spottedreptile said:

Nobody ever thinks of themselves as the bad guys. 

I would say very few.  I don't think Ramsey or Euron have any issues owning their evil intentions, or wearing them on their sleeves.  But they are rather outliers.

[TarotQueen]

29 minutes ago, screamin said:

Did he say it in the past tense, as you do here?

If I have time and remember I'll go poke back around in the second and third seasons to find it, but from memory, the convo went something like this:

S:  You have a wife.

D:  Yes.

S:  Do you miss her?

D:  Very much my lady.

... I used past tense because I watched it in the past, but now I wonder enough I'll have to find and rewatch because 'have' and 'had' sound a lot alike as dialogue, and the 'miss her' part could also have two meanings ....

[Colorful Mess]

16 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

First part of the NW's oath "Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death..."  Jon was technically dead so he was no longer bound by that oath.

But no one outside of Mel, Davos, Ed, or Tormund knows that he died. The only explanation I can come up with is, no one really cares about the NW anymore and if you want to leave, sure go ahead, no questions asked. If you died, you don't even need to offer that as a rationale for deserting.

[Tikichick]

12 hours ago, dr pepper said:

That would make Sam's girlfriend's baby, the next Lord Tarly.

Interesting.  Fits as a salute to the onscreen Lord Tarly we've been given.

At least in the book I suspect it's a different plan, possibly in the show as well.

[Oscirus]

12 hours ago, dr pepper said:

That would make Sam's girlfriend's baby, the next Lord Tarly.

Not really, he's still a bastard.