S01.E21: Ragtag

[JTMacc99]

Here's Monty's post on the episode!

Oh my goodness, that dog!

 

I posted a picture of my dog staring at me just like that in the Post Your Pet Photos! thread here.

 

Man, I don't think even Garrett could have pulled the trigger.

[ChelseaNH]

I wouldn't even be surprised if FitzSimmons have zero damage from the water impact.

 

 

I am quite certain that the term "deceleration injury" does not exist in the MCU.

 

But Ward was at least careless about whether his younger brother was in the house at the time.

 

Do we know it was the younger brother in the house?  The charge was attempted murder, so it could have been the elder.  In which case, I'm sure it wasn't carelessness.

[marketdoctor]

 

I am quite certain that the term "deceleration injury" does not exist in the MCU.

 

It's come up (at least once, in a Spider-Man comic.)  But they play fast and loose with it, with things like how much an armored suit can protect you.  OTOH, if they use it as, for example, Fitz breaking Simmons' fall, that'd be a nice nod to the Silver Age Marvel idea that occasionally, physics can happen.

[Grammaeryn]

You know what would be even more horrible/heart-breaking?  If Garrett lied to Ward about his family pressing charges.  That part rang false to me.  Usually sociopaths don't seek justice through the legal system because that system could expose their own crimes.  

[kitlee625]

So regarding Ward, and whether he did or did not kill his dog and FitzSimmons, I think there is another path besides choosing good vs evil. (For the record, my first reaction when I saw that scene was that he was behind the rifle, but it also makes sense for it to be Garrett. I honestly am not sure what to believe.)

 

Ward chooses passive evilness. Even letting the dog free in the woods, I would argue, is not a wholy kind gesture. Garrett even says earlier in the episode to Ward, that the reward for loyalty from the dog is either to be abandoned or put in the pound - both cruel options, and tied in his mind with S.H.I.E.L.D. not rescuing him when he was severely injured in the field. Yes, the dog could survive on his own, but this is not a feral dog. This is a domesticated dog, several years old (we see him as an adult and then adult + 5 years), who has been cared for by Ward. The dog does not even appear to hunt on his own, rather retrieves animals that Ward shoots. Ward certainly might hope that the dog will survive on his own, but he has to know on some level that there is a very real chance that the dog will die because the dog doesn't have the skills to survive on its own - just like Ward when Ward was abandoned by Garrett.

 

Similarly, with FitzSimmons, Ward does not kill them face to face like he does with others. I do think that is because he cares for them. But what he says about that is important - "It's a weakness." He may be hoping that FitzSimmons will be able to get themselves out of it, but again, logically he knows that there is a very real possibility of death given that they are flying over the ocean, with no clear means of rescue. (Garrett orders for Coulson and company to be "taken care of" by Kaminsky at the base, as you recall, so Ward knows that Coulson is not hovering just off screen to rescue them.) Again, this is a way of distancing himself from their deaths, and allowing Ward to give them some blame if/when they die. (They had a chance to survive, thus their deaths are not on me.)

 

I think that in the finale, Ward is going to have to make a clear choice, Team Bus or Team Garrett. Based on the affection he has shown for Garrett this episode, and the fact that he jettisoned FitzSimmons into the ocean, I'm guessing it's going to be Team Garrett.

[Sandman]

Hmm. I thought I head Garrett say "younger brother," but now I'm not sure. I agree that if he left the eldest in there, it was no accident.

 

Of course, it could be Ward sighting on the dog, in the end. Maybe he prefers to give his targets a "sporting chance" where he can, although a running dog doesn't offer much challenge for a sniper of Ward's reputed gifts.

[KirkB]

You could make the case that Ward didn't kill Fitz and Simmons because he was face to face with them, like with Buddy years ago, but they also deliberately made it so he wasn't able to get to them by sealing them in the side room. I think they wanted it to be somewhat ambiguous as to what Ward might have done if he had been able to get his hands on them. My guess is he wouldn't be able to do it. In fact, I'd wager he would have done exactly what he did. Shoved them in the room and ejected them from the plane. A part of him knows they may very well die, whether from drowning (if the chamber is not waterproof) or from lack of oxygen or just starving to death if they can't get out, but he can also let that little part of himself that likes them say "At least you didn't just kill them" or "Coulson could still find them." Which is obviously what will really happen. During what I imagine will be the last encounter between let's say super-Garrett and Team Coulson he will probably find out Fitz and Simmons are still alive and raise hell with Ward, which may be part of what finally turns Ward against him.

[Sarahastro]

Hmm. I thought I head Garrett say "younger brother," but now I'm not sure. I agree that if he left the eldest in there, it was no accident.

 

Garrett referred to the person in the house when Ward set the fire as "your brother." Later he said, "your older brother" was pushing to have him tried as an adult. Since he used the modifier the second time but not the first, I think it's possible that the brother inside the house was the younger one. (Yes, I know I am overthinking this.)

 

Even if it was the younger brother in the house and not the older one, it could have been on purpose. He could have been punishing his younger brother for telling his parents about the abuse, or he could have been trying to kill his younger brother because he started abusing someone else (maybe the sister we've heard very little about).

[Kromm]

Ward, you go to Hell.  You go to Hell and you die.

 

Please don't try to redeem Ward, he just tried to kill FitzSimmons.  There's no coming back from that.  That goober better have a world of hurt coming his way.

There could be some bullshit where he secretly supplied a way for them to get out of their watery grave, and did it on the sly so Garrett wouldn't know about it.

 

But I don't see the sense even if he did.  He still cold bloodedly murdered Agent Patton Oswalt!  Not to mention Hand and those others, but Oswalt was the line for me!

[HistoryGirl]

One thing to note regarding FitzSimmons' drop zone... they were dropped somewhere between Cuba and Miami.  Which is a highly populated waterway.  I mean, if you go from Cuba to Key West it's what, 50 miles? Let's assume they're well over the Keys, that's certainly a very travelled waterway.  Not exactly the middle of the Atlantic.  That being said, I don't believe for a second that FitzSimmons are gone.  What I'm curious about is whether that damn pod is waterproof and how long they'll be in it for.  Also, I hated that they weren't in the promos for next week. Thanks for the torture, ABC. 

[Kromm]

One thing to note regarding FitzSimmons' drop zone... they were dropped somewhere between Cuba and Miami.  Which is a highly populated waterway.  I mean, if you go from Cuba to Key West it's what, 50 miles? Let's assume they're well over the Keys, that's certainly a very travelled waterway.  Not exactly the middle of the Atlantic.  That being said, I don't believe for a second that FitzSimmons are gone.  What I'm curious about is whether that damn pod is waterproof and how long they'll be in it for.  Also, I hated that they weren't in the promos for next week. Thanks for the torture, ABC. 

Yeah, but we all know they aren't dead.  The only issue is whether or not Ward does (and if it magically "saves" his character even if he did--blech!)

[millahnna]

I found Raina's comment about being like Skye interesting. Is she also an 084, perhaps the same kind as Skye?

Edited May 7, 2014 by millahnna

[Raja]

One thing to note regarding FitzSimmons' drop zone... they were dropped somewhere between Cuba and Miami.  Which is a highly populated waterway.  I mean, if you go from Cuba to Key West it's what, 50 miles? Let's assume they're well over the Keys, that's certainly a very travelled waterway.  Not exactly the middle of the Atlantic.  That being said, I don't believe for a second that FitzSimmons are gone.  What I'm curious about is whether that damn pod is waterproof and how long they'll be in it for.  Also, I hated that they weren't in the promos for next week. Thanks for the torture, ABC. 

I am not sure high high they were but I do remember the Bus was still in VTOL flight mode with the jets titled for vertical flight. So it is possible that it was flying as slow as a helicopter can and Special Forces do make helocast into the water

[fastiller]

 I also like when Simmons hears Coulson and May described as old, Simmons immediately jumps to May's defense. 

It was especially funny to me considering recent conversation regarding how damned well Ming-Na looks for a woman of her age.  She truly doesn't look too far north of 35-38 to me, at least not how they dress her, light her a make her up.

 

All through the episode I was still queasy about whether Simmons is possibly HYDRA.

[Sandman]

I found Raina's comment about being like Skye interesting. Is she also an 084, perhaps the same kind as Skye?

 

I wondered the same thing, actually.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Sandman

[Kromm]

All through the episode I was still queasy about whether Simmons is possibly HYDRA.

I think we know now she probably isn't.  Because it no longer makes sense.

 

Garrett asked Ward to kill BOTH of them without qualifier.  Now Garrett could be cold enough to kill his own agent, but I don't see why he'd do so for no real gain.

[dusang]

Garrett asked Ward to kill BOTH of them without qualifier.  Now Garrett could be cold enough to kill his own agent, but I don't see why he'd do so for no real gain.

 

Obviously Garrett was behaving as a terrible leader in this episode -- sacrificing the entire Centipede/Deathlok/Philosopher's Stone R&D to use the only sample to save his own life -- but I was also surprised at the order to kill both Fitz and Simmons.  In the big reveal episode (title totally forgotten but the one right after CA:TWS came out) Garrett specifically says that, whether Fitz swears allegiance to HYDRA or not he'll be developing weapons for them.  So, in addition to wasting the only sample of the Elixir of Life on himself, by ordering FitzSimmons killed in an act of petty vengeance, he's undermining the future of HYDRA's scientific program.

 

The whole "following orders" line is getting really absurd in the face of the clearly self-serving and ill-conceived orders being given.  Ward's allegiance is clearly to Garrett rather than HYDRA because anyone who had truly drunk the proverbial Kool-Aid would never allow Garrett to sacrifice the entire HYDRA endgame to save one man, as the whole thesis of HYDRA is the sacrifice of a "few" to secure the many.  (In this case, I believe "few" was quoted at 20 million relative to a total population of 7 billion.)

 

Also, didn't Fitz basically just do to Garrett what Garrett/Deathlok did to Ward last episode?  And Skye didn't let Ward die but Fitz pulled the trigger and expressed pleasure at Garrett's potential death?  I seriously hope Fitz expresses some guilt or shame over killing a man because if this is an example of how women are too kind and good to kill someone and men don't bat an eye I'll be rather disappointed.

Edited May 8, 2014 by dusang

[rujasu]

Skye didn't let Ward die, but Fitz wouldn't let Ward die either.  Remember, Ward was someone they thought was a friend.  Garrett was someone they saw as an ally for a brief time, but they weren't close to him.  When they found out Garrett was HYDRA, nobody was saying, "Oh no, it can't be Garrett!"  It was more like, "Oh, he was kind of an ass anyway, that makes sense."  I think they still see Ward as a person while Garrett is a monster.

[KirkB]

Garrett didn't waste the alien miracle cure. He used it to save his own life. I don't think Garrett has any real concern for anyone or anything besides his own wealth and well being. He is Hydra mainly because they give him the freedom to do whatever the hell he wants, unlike SHIELD. Whatever the current version of Hydra's allegiances and motivations are, I don't think Garrett shares them. Except, perhaps, the might makes right thing.

Edited May 8, 2014 by KirkB

[gik910]

You should never lie about tacos, Garrett. 

 

Never. 

 

Having said that I am truly enjoying Bill Paxton in this roll.

 

If, and it is a big if, Ward was telling the truth about his childhood to Skye then his parents, the mental health system, and the correctional system have all majorly failed him.  Garrett played him like a fiddle. The only redemption I want to see is his death.  

Edited May 8, 2014 by gik910

[Ghost Bear]

I'm of the opinion that Ward did sight and shoot Buddy from a distance. He fired the gun to give the dog a fighting chance to escape, and used the sniper rifle to track and shoot the dog. (They showed Ward using the rifle earlier.) They didn't, however, show if he actually *hit* the dog, but that's immaterial to the point about his conflicted character they're showing....Ward's "weakness" means he can't/won't shoot someone defenseless in front of him, but to convince himself to follow orders without the baggage, gives them a fighting chance to survive.

 

That's given some weight when you consider how his "execution" of FitzSimmons went down. He could've outright killed them both in hand-to-hand, but didn't. Instead, he gave them a fighting chance to survive by ejecting them from the plane. In his mind, he carried out his orders without having to do it in cold blood. It's splitting hairs, but to someone like Ward, that hair becomes a lifeline to sanity.

 

I'm really liking what they've done with his character, and cannot wait to see how it all plays out.

[dusang]

I think they still see Ward as a person while Garrett is a monster.

 

Seeing someone as a monster, therefore deserving to die, is not entirely dissimilar to seeing someone as less than human and deserving to die.

 

To distill my argument to it's finest point: what Fitz did is fucked up and if TPTB whitewash it I'll be pissed.

[Kromm]

Seeing someone as a monster, therefore deserving to die, is not entirely dissimilar to seeing someone as less than human and deserving to die.

 

To distill my argument to it's finest point: what Fitz did is fucked up and if TPTB whitewash it I'll be pissed.

I'm just not seeing it.

 

This seems like nitpicking at the method more than anything.  Garrett is an enemy combatant, murdering Fitz' colleagues left and right.  Stopping the threat posed by him is a necessity, not "fucked up".

 

And if we must impart gender portrayals onto this, don't forget that Skye is now the realist about Ward, and Fitz is the one with the "soft" portrayal in terms of accepting Ward's villainy.  So there's a balance for Skye's compassion vs. Fitz' momentary ruthlessness.  Skye in turn is far tougher mentally and emotionally otherwise--whereas Fitz is infantilized by the situation overall (remember,children can strike out quite viciously).

[dusang]

Garrett is an enemy combatant, murdering Fitz' colleagues left and right.  Stopping the threat posed by him is a necessity, not "fucked up".

 

So is Ward, and Skye, knowing that he was an enemy combatant and having seen one of his victims, still saved him from certain death.

 

With the two events in consecutive episodes, I'm struck with the obvious parallels between the two scenes.

 

Now, admittedly, at that point Fitz (possibly) didn't know that Garrett had any tech in him that would be disrupted by the EMP, therefore activating it wasn't a deliberate attempt on Garrett's life.  However, that he then gloated over Garrett's imminent demise is a little concerning.  Although, you are correct that he is behaving like a vicious, vengeful child.

[Kromm]

So is Ward, and Skye, knowing that he was an enemy combatant and having seen one of his victims, still saved him from certain death.

 

With the two events in consecutive episodes, I'm struck with the obvious parallels between the two scenes.

 

Now, admittedly, at that point Fitz (possibly) didn't know that Garrett had any tech in him that would be disrupted by the EMP, therefore activating it wasn't a deliberate attempt on Garrett's life.  However, that he then gloated over Garrett's imminent demise is a little concerning.  Although, you are correct that he is behaving like a vicious, vengeful child.

Yeah, but this is a false equivalency.  You said what Fitz did was "fucked up".  That's a criticism of him trying to take out a ruthless terrorist.  Elsewhere you talk about the issue with Skye NOT doing so.  

 

Now there's a valid commentary on the subtext from a writing perspective of one character, the woman, not being able to follow through and the male being able to. That's true.  But that in no way makes what Fitz did "fucked up".  That gender imbalance doesn't indict Fitz' actions--it indicts Skye's--or rather her inability to do what Fitz did.  You can't have your cake and eat it too with this.  If any attempt at taking the life of an enemy is "fucked up" then there's no handle to criticize the show insisting Skye was the one with compassion.  But if you DO criticize that imbalance, it follows that what Fitz did was correct (even if Fitz is acting like a child otherwise).

 

Fitz is acting like a child, as I said, not because he went after Garrett, but instead because he can't maturely accept that he extended his trust to someone unworthy of it.  Skye, for all that the subtext has her being soft, at the same time is mature in her processing of things otherwise. 

[Sarahastro]

Also a few episodes ago Garrett ordered his men to shoot Coulson and May in front of Fitz, then shoot Fitz in the kneecaps so that he could be forced to join Hydra and tortured until he complied. He and Simmons were also Garrett's prisoners at the time. So I think his desire to see Garrett die makes sense for the character.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Sarahastro

[dusang]

But that in no way makes what Fitz did "fucked up".  That gender imbalance doesn't indict Fitz' actions--it indicts Skye's--or rather her inability to do what Fitz did.  You can't have your cake and eat it too with this.

 

That's not my cake, thanks.

 

I've said that Skye saving Ward was not a sign of weakness.

 

I also said that what Fitz did was fucked up, in that he expressed no human empathy or compassion for (intentionally or accidentally almost) killing someone.  And I want TPTB to address that.

[Lisin]

OK people, lets remember to keep this about the show and not each other! Thank you! 

[ChelseaNH]

He is Hydra mainly because they give him the freedom to do whatever the hell he wants, unlike SHIELD.

 

Which raises the question, why would Hydra let him do whatever he wants?  They're hardly altruists.  Garrett has to serve their ends.  There's no indication that the meltdown of SHIELD left Hydra without any hierarchy to run the business and allocate the resources.

 

He could've outright killed them both in hand-to-hand, but didn't

 

It's a lot harder to kill someone hand-to-hand if you can't get your hands on them.  They locked themselves behind a rather solid-looking door.  Skye's medical unit, I believe.

 

And I want TPTB to address that.

 

You'll have to get in line behind all the people waiting for them to address Ward's rape.

[kitlee625]

So is Ward, and Skye, knowing that he was an enemy combatant and having seen one of his victims, still saved him from certain death.

 

With the two events in consecutive episodes, I'm struck with the obvious parallels between the two scenes.

 

Now, admittedly, at that point Fitz (possibly) didn't know that Garrett had any tech in him that would be disrupted by the EMP, therefore activating it wasn't a deliberate attempt on Garrett's life.  However, that he then gloated over Garrett's imminent demise is a little concerning.  Although, you are correct that he is behaving like a vicious, vengeful child.

 

So Fitz does know about the tech in Garrett because they know about him being the first Deathlock. Given that EMPs apparently short out all electronics in a 10 (feet? meter? i actually don't remember which they said on the show) radius, it makes since that he does mean to disable Garrett's tech. Otherwise it doesn't really make sense for him to activate it. He's not close enough to any of the plane's components to disable them except for the lights, which also flash. Of course he does not know that Garrett will die without the tech. After all, as far as we know, Mike Peterson is not completely dependent on his tech to survive; it seems to be mostly weapons and other enhancements.

 

So I do think that him being willing to kill Garrett is an interesting turn to the character, but not necessarily a bad one. He is losing his innocence and learning to live in a cold, cruel world. This is someone who we find in "F.Z.Z.T." never even wanted to leave the lab, and out in the field he has been forced to face increasingly tough situations. Remember, Fitz has already shot the man who was about to kill May in "Turn, Turn, Turn."

 

At this point he still wants to see the good in Ward. He remembers all their good times together, being friends, and he is still processing all the things that Ward has done under Hydra (killing Koenig, Hand, etc.) However, he does have firsthand knowledge of how ruthless Garrett is. Just a few episodes ago, Garrett was going to kill May and Coulson in front of him and then torture Fitz into working for Hydra. I don't think that him trying to hurt/kill Garrett shows that Fitz is evil or doesn't have mercy. Skye was not in a position where Ward was going to kill/torture her, to her knowledge. However, Fitz knows that Garrett probably will kill him and Simmons, or at least torture them until they work for Hydra.

[ActualSize]

I know Bill Paxton makes the character engaging, but I'm quite ready for Garrett to get what's coming to him. No matter who shot Buddy, whether or not Buddy *was* shot, Garrett ordered Ward to do it. That seals his fate for me.

[Watcher0363]

Seeing someone as a monster, therefore deserving to die, is not entirely dissimilar to seeing someone as less than human and deserving to die.

To distill my argument to it's finest point: what Fitz did is fucked up and if TPTB whitewash it I'll be pissed.

Under the war conditions that are rag tag rebels are operating under, Fitz did what he should have. He was captured and unarmed, conventionally at least. He had a chance to take out a major figure of their foe's army. He took it, his out burst was more PTSD than anything. The man has gone through a lot lately, including shooting someone to save a team member.

Skye allowing Ward to live could have been more instinctive than feminine weakness. After all if Ward had died the only person left to get her to decrypt the file is her own frail body. Deathlock would have surely gone Jack Bauer on her, real quick.

In the last few episodes the one person's actions that has bothered me the most is agent Hand. She had a prisoner in custody. Then preceded to psychology manipulate a former colleague of the prisoner into shooting him in the head. That is wrong on so many levels.

As I read all the posts on this episode it dawned on me what I was watching. And I have not stop laughing. Garrett is the emperor, Ward is Darth Vader, May is master Yoda and Skye is Luke Skywalker. "I know there is still some good left in you" speech is coming soon from Skye.

[Cranberry]

I'm on the "Ward could only kill Buddy if he didn't have to look him in the face" train, and I agree that it's the same situation with Fitz and Simmons. Ward does care about them, so he can't just shoot them, but he dumps them off that plane expecting them to die -- he just won't have to watch it. We have no reason to believe that he knew the nickel was a tracker and that anyone would be able to recover them in time.

 

I liked this one a lot. The "large file transfer" line was so cheesy, but great.

[telane]

In the last few episodes the one person's actions that has bothered me the most is agent Hand. She had a prisoner in custody. Then preceded to psychology manipulate a former colleague of the prisoner into shooting him in the head. That is wrong on so many levels.

 

ITA. Replied in Grant Ward's thread.

[shapeshifter]

You know what would be even more horrible/heart-breaking? If Garrett lied to Ward about his family pressing charges. That part rang false to me. Usually sociopaths don't seek justice through the legal system because that system could expose their own crimes.

It seemed to me that they were leading up to that reveal, and it appears that they are leading up to redemption for Ward--whether or not he survives.

I thought it was clear that he did not shoot the dog, and must have missed a view of the dog in rifle scope sites after it ran to follow the shot. But couldn't that have been Ward watching Buddy's escape? Anyway, Ward not shooting Buddy would just be his own weakness rather than goodness if it means the dog will slowly starve to death. I don't think we have enough information to assume the dog could not survive on its own at that point. Nevertheless, by being abandoned, it would be as emotionally wounded as both Garrett and Ward.

Garrett seems to now be worthy of death, but they could save him in order to prove that the good guys are too good to kill him--which would allow him to escape in the future and create more havoc for our heroes to deal with.

Flowers was revealed to be motivated by the ends-justifies-the-means, and she has just discovered that her goals do not necessarily jive with Garrett's. I wonder if she and Skye are half sisters.

Question: Are the monsters (who are Skye's parents who killed a village trying to find her) actual monsters (or at least costumed or disfigured to appear as such), or are they only "monsters" in the sense that they killed innocent men, women, and children?

One more question: I *loved* the "large file transfer" line; has it been used in this way before on shows and movies?

Edited May 10, 2014 by shapeshifter

[KirkB]

Question: Are the monsters (who are Skye's parents who killed a village trying to find her) actual monsters (or at least costumed or disfigured to appear as such), or are they only "monsters" in the sense that they killed innocent men, women, and children?

 

 

   I was wondering the same thing. I get the feeling though, from the way Raina worded it, that they were probably real monsters, or at least beings that were obviously not or at least did not look human. Blue skin, scales, wings, whatever.

[HistoryGirl]

I was wondering the same thing. I get the feeling though, from the way Raina worded it, that they were probably real monsters, or at least beings that were obviously not or at least did not look human. Blue skin, scales, wings, whatever.

 

 

I wonder if any of this is setting of Guardians of the Galaxy.  StarLord looks human but is half alien, so... I guess Skye could be too. 

[KirkB]

Skye will probably turn out to be Moondragon or something. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the blue guy in the tube, Skye's origins and possibly even Raina are going to be tied into GotG in some way.

Edited May 11, 2014 by KirkB

[jhlipton]

shapeshifter:

Question: Are the monsters (who are Skye's parents who killed a village trying to find her) actual monsters (or at least costumed or disfigured to appear as such), or are they only "monsters" in the sense that they killed innocent men, women, and children?

 

 

My thought was "aliens".  I'm not familiar enough with the MCU to know if there are any that would look like "monsters" but could produce a human child.

[Raja]

There were Loki's natural parents

[James Moar]

I posted this over on TWOP a few days ago:

"My current theory about Skye's background: she's an Inhuman. This is a real house of cards, though, and as I'm watching on UK pace, a couple of the big points come from US-paced info rather than what I've seen. It goes as follows:

The blue alien is probably a Kree, as they're Marvel's most frequently-occurring blue humanoids. Specifically, it may be an analogue for Captain Marvel -- it's referred to as "G.H.", and one version of him is called "Geheneris Halason". Also, when Garrett's given a synthetic version of the GH compound, he 'feels the Universe', which resembles Captain Marvel's cosmic awareness.

Now, Skye doesn't seem to suffer the side effects from the GH compound that other people do, and she seems to have originally been found in association with literal monsters. The Inhumans, in the comics, were created by the Kree, which might explain compatibility with a chemical derived from them, and some of them have bizarre physical forms.

This could, of course, be utterly wrong. And I was wrong about the identity of the Clairvoyant, so my track record's not great."

Since then, there's been a promo clip that seems close to confirming one element, and might support another....

[KirkB]

I suspect you're probably right, as I think they'll want to use the weekly AoS in some small way to start hinting at the larger, more cosmic MCA, obviously leading into GotG.

[Sandman]

Hey, the first thing I thought of was that there was a little Frost Giant ichor (or whatever the body fluids of denizens of Jotunheim (?) are called) in the Son of Coul, so your theory seems at least a lot more detailed than mine -- and probably plausible. Of course, in Garrett's case, the potential cosmic awareness denatured rather rapidly into megalomaniacal whackjobbery, so, who knows?

[John Potts]

You know, if FitzSimmons are going to fall into enemy hands, I'd rather they got captured actually doing something heroic rather then considering doing something heroic but getting captured before they could try (we've already seen the comic gold that comes when Gemma tries to talk her way out of a situation).

 

ChelseaNH I am quite certain that the term "deceleration injury" does not exist in the MCU.

 

Don’t be silly! They fell into water, which is totally soft!

 

Actionmage [They were] lobbying to get Grant tried as an adult for almost killing him.

 

Was I the only one going “They’re going to try you as an adult – because you’re 25!”?

 

Jeezaloo The plot point of Hydra working with corporations is NOT as far fetched as you might think

 

I don’t disagree, but you don’t say “I was working for NaziCorp” you say “I was working with TotallyNotEvilCorp, Inc. who developed this gizmo.”

 

Thuganomics85 I feel kind of daft, because I was confused over the dog's fate.

 

I thought Ward let him go and Garrett took the shot (foreshadowing how Ward wouldn’t be able to kill FitzSimmons). Though it's a bit odd that in a test of ruthlessness (I can't remember if that was a training method used by the SS or the Spartans - maybe both) that Ward failed, Garrett still accepted him as his right hand man (apparently).

 

Shapeshifter Are the monsters (who are Skye's parents who killed a village trying to find her) actual monsters (or at least costumed or disfigured to appear as such), or are they only "monsters" in the sense that they killed innocent men, women, and children?

 

Pretty sure it's option 1.

Edited May 24, 2014 by John Potts

[Kromm]

Pretty sure it's option 1.

Be funnier if its an assortment pack (one parent looking relatively normal while the other looks monstrous, but both being superpowerful.

 

This would fit in with The Inhumans and/or The Eternals ideas reasonably well, where some of them are pretty much human looking, and some of them are not.  Use the shock value of one parent looking weird, then introduce the other not looking weird, and then that explains Skye also looking normal.

[webruce]

Agent Tripletts grandfathers Howling Commando spy stuff was cool.

I liked the flashbacks to a younger Grant Ward. The "younger" John Garrett made me think of another actor. Can't think of his name now. Maybe Christian Slater? But looking back at old Bill Paxton pictures, he did look like himself. Didn't like the perceived shooting of Buddy though.

It was funny on the grease pen diagram that the "K" in Cybertek kept changing shape.I liked how Coulson and may played nerds to infiltrate Cybertek. I liked they sent the file out the window to the team. Finding out that Garrett was patient Zero was interesting. And Skyes remark that he wanted to be a real live boy again was funny. Fitz and Simmons talking in their ears was good. What was their aliases? Dio Tittle and Dr. Rome? Something like that.

Also liked the Pablo Hernandez pizza delivery. i thought when it looked like Coulson had no idea who it was that Garrett found him. But then he remembered it was his alias.

YOu could see that both Raina and Mike Peterson were not always happy campers. Well we know they have Ace Peterson in custody.
We could see Wards weakness after they captured Fitz and Simmons and he dropped them in the ocean in that box. Instead of shooting them.

Ian Quinn talking to the Generals about Super-soldier should have raised a red flag.

Not sure what Garrett scratched in that plastic but we see Coulson does the same on the wall.

[Donny Ketchum]

Didn't like the perceived shooting of Buddy though.

We could see Wards weakness after they captured Fitz and Simmons and he dropped them in the ocean in that box. Instead of shooting them.

Not just perceived.  It's confirmed in the next season's finale that he did shoot poor Buddy.

 

I know what happens to Fitz and Simmons in this episode, resulting in Fitz's condition in the next season, can largely be placed on Ward, but can't some of it be put on Fitz himself?  Were it not for his desperation to try and reach Ward, he and Simmons never would've been in that predicament in the first place.  He should've just let it go like Coulson, May, Skye, and Simmons all did.

[blueray]

 

I know what happens to Fitz and Simmons in this episode, resulting in Fitz's condition in the next season, can largely be placed on Ward, but can't some of it be put on Fitz himself?  Were it not for his desperation to try and reach Ward, he and Simmons never would've been in that predicament in the first place.  He should've just let it go like Coulson, May, Skye, and Simmons all did.

 

It wasn't really Fitz fault either, sure he still felt that there was good in Ward (which now we know there isn't), however Ward captures them when they were hiding behind something in front of the plane. Right before that Simmon's had talked Fitz in to returning to the group. So basically if it wasn't for Ward they wouldn't have even been on the plane.

[Donny Ketchum]

It wasn't really Fitz fault either, sure he still felt that there was good in Ward (which now we know there isn't), however Ward captures them when they were hiding behind something in front of the plane. Right before that Simmon's had talked Fitz in to returning to the group. So basically if it wasn't for Ward they wouldn't have even been on the plane.

Wow, I totally misremembered the sequence of events.  I'd thought that Fitz was the reason they were on there in the first place.  Thanks for clearing up what actually went down.  Now I'll have to watch that one again to be sure.