S11.E01: Great Scot! The Hurricanes Are Coming / S11.E2: A Sheep Is Going to Eat Us!

[RedheadZombie]

I'm glad I finished the episode.  There were a few more episodes, primarily Zoey throwing herself on the ground and refusing to get up, and also refusing to hold Grammie's hand because she was winding up for a fit because she wanted that ice cream NOW!

But I really enjoyed watching Will and Zoey interacting.  It's cute that even though she's so stubborn, she follows Will when he takes off.  Plus, it was so sweet when Will called his sister, "Little Zoey", at tea.

I used to prefer Bill and find him so laid-back, whereas Jen seemed a little uptight and prissy.  Well I really felt for Jen this episode.  There they are at tea.  Jen's trying to teach her children a little culture, and there's Bill distracting them by acting like a pirate and holding the strainer to his eye.  I bet anything he's the one who teaches well to belch and think he's adorable by doing it, and probably has bathroom humor.   They seem to strongly follow gender norms, so Will walks around belching and acting uncouth like his father, and Zoey is the delicate little princess, like her mother.

It's not impossible to raise well behaved children with their techniques.  I was shocked when I saw how my cousin and his wife raised their children.  Never a command - don't do that, but a request - don't do that, please.  And their two children are the most courteous, well-behaved, and respectful people in our entire family.  And it's not because they were simply meek by nature.  By the age of two, their daughter refused to be assisted while she showered - "You stay there mommy" (outside the curtain).   So I think part of the problem is Jen and Bill still have this image of their children suffering in their orphanages. Jen's story of how Zoey didn't know how to play with toys still seems so fresh. I had a friend whose four year old daughter had Leukemia.  When she went into remission, the doctor had a sit down with her parents, and carefully pointed out that they were no longer parents of a sick kid, and they must not treat her as such.  Translation, your kid's going to be a brat if you don't start treating her like a "regular" kid. 

And I think it doesn't help that Jen has a tendency to nervous laugh, that makes her laugh when she's uncomfortable with what they're doing.  That may only be when the cameras are on, but the kids can't help but take that as encouragement.  And their lack of action can be interpreted as tacit agreement.  I'm sure Zoey is still doing the toddler throw-down because she has a mother who cannot pick her up and move on, and a father who had a very painful back for a long time.  Zoey automatically controls the situation when everyone has to stop and cajole her for awhile until she decides she's yanked their chain long enough.  I wonder if they had simply left Zoey rolling around on the hotel room floor, and walked out the door, how long it would have been before she came zipping out of the room.  Of course she would never be left for real, but walking down the hall to take the control away from her and let her know they're serious, could be very affective.  And as a healthcare worker, I don't know how Jen could watch her down there.  They do blue lighting on even the most expensive hotels, and there is semen and other bodily fluids everywhere.  I was cringing with every shot of Zoey soaking up the stuff. 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

With Bill's bad back and Jen's small stature and her limited mobility I wonder how they thought they would be capable of caring for their kids, picking them up when they need it either for discipline or for cuddling them when they fall or hurt themselves.  I am amazed they have not replaced Kate or have not hired a caregiver to help them...the kids are becoming bigger and have no inkling of "we shouldn't do that" so they do it only to hear nonsense like I will count to 3.....ok then what?  Nada which is resulting in the bad behaviour and lack of respect for any type of authority.  I hope the grandparents can help them, maybe that is why Jen's mother and Dave are not close in proximity or have interfered one to many times and are on the shit list for saying too much!  Just an opinion...

[Kid]

4 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I only started watching the show because of the kids.  I started watching a little before Zoey was adopted, but I've seen a couple of old episodes that included the day they got Will.  I thought they were the most beautiful, precious, amazing children in the world.  Then I noticed little things, and I noticed that there was very little tolerance here for anything negative about this family.  I took off last year, and I can see a big difference in the behavior of the children.

The thing that confuses me, is the fact that Jen and Bill are producers.  They set very strict boundaries for filming, and they surely have the authority to ask for editing.  The fact that these events are making it onto the show implies, to me, that she don't see any issue with the behavior.  Or perhaps think this is typical behavior.  I don't remember much about the first two episodes, the kids were loud and rude, but I just hand waved it.

I'm only six minutes into this new episode, and I find myself less than eager to watch it.  From Zoey having a little tantrum on the floor, then slapping at Grandma's hand when she tries to reach down and help her.  Then Zoey squealing and running into a dressing room with a closed curtain.  I can only hope that the store was only open for them, but how is Zoey to understand that that's not acceptable next time she's at a store?  I had a situation once where the woman next to me in the changing area let her little boy keep crawling under the stall towards me.  I am a completely passive, non-violent person, but I truly wanted to gently apply m shoe to his forehead, and tell him, no.

This leads me to believe that as loving and kind as Jen and Bill are to their children, they have the same disease that many parents have - my child hung the moon, and everybody else surely thinks they're the greatest.  It excuses a lot of bad behavior, and becomes irritating in every day life.  It's the people who come to my home and let their children run mad, leaving me to correct their behavior, and take breakables away from them, and sit with gritted teeth while they trash things I value, or torment one of my pets.  And it's also when your sitting in a booth at a restaurant, or God forbid on a plane, and the parents allow their children to stand up and turn around and act like a monkey to get my attention.  Parents allow that because they can have a peaceful dinner, visit, or plane ride, and it doesn't matter that their child is disturbing other people.

I can tell that Bill's step-mom was uncomfortable with the behavior, because she was going around trying to get Zoey up off the floor, going around and taking back all the tape measurers the children absconded, and in general, being a disciplinarian.  I always suspected that Will would have a hard time because he was just so adorable with that constant grin, and his cheerful demeanor.  That leads to the adults in his life indulging him because they're charmed, and Will would have no idea that anything he did was wrong.  I was also a little disturbed at how happy he was the moment he was handed over to strangers.  He was just happy as a clam.  Children bond to their caretakers, even when they're abusive.  Yet Will seemingly left his caretakers with a huge grin on his face.  As traumatic as Zoey's adoption was, I've always felt she would be better off because she had clearly bonded to her caretaker, and was showing normal grieving at leaving her.  The one thing that's concerning is her death glares.  She means business.  By no means do I want her to be submissive, and bow to other people's expectations.  It can be hard enough for a woman in society, and she will be little as well as a woman of colour.  But I think she at least needs some manners, along with already knowing her own mind.

One last thing, I realize Jen's diagnosis of cancer simultaneous to Zoey's adoption may have created some of these issues.  Jen was incapacitated and surely didn't want to be firm with her children when she wasn't even sure that she would live.  And Bill's always about having fun, and Zoey was so suspicious of him initially, I'm sure he simply bowed and scraped to keep her from screaming.  But they did have the consistency of their nanny (Kate), and I'm assuming she applied some discipline.  I did admire Jen and Bill for shutting down filming during that time, but I also remember they allowed the footage of a very traumatized Zoey to be filmed and aired.  I think I'm joining ranks with those who feel the children would do better off of this show.  I know people here get angry when this is said because they enjoy the children, but I'm sure everyone believes the children and their safety came first.  I was always anxious when they lived in Houston.  They have a very distinctive house, and I'm sure it's not hard to find.  An unbalanced fan could have easily found their house, knocked over Jen, and gone off with one of their children.  That kind of crazy shit happens all the time.  Elizabeth Smart was taken by a man who became obsessed with her.  They tell parents to not write the child's name of their backpacks because a kidnapper can trick them into thinking they are a friend, well Will and Zoey have a ton of people who know their name.  And while I think there's little chance that Zoey would go with anyone, I could see Will getting excited and going off with someone.  And that's frightening.

Very well said.  You are spot on.

[Kid]

3 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

They do blue lighting on even the most expensive hotels, and there is semen and other bodily fluids everywhere.  I was cringing with every shot of Zoey soaking up the stuff. 

I was thinking the same thing!!!!    And not just in the hotel room. She was rolling around on the floor everywhere. 

 And with regard to your comment about rolling on the floor in the pod and not taking her grandmothers hand, let me tell you, there should have been NO ice cream in her future given the defiance she was showing and it should've been made clear to her that's why there would be no ice cream in her future.   She is big on showing defiance. That is what got under my skin at the castle when she went behind the ropes and they told her to come back. She kept walking and looking back at them with that look on her face. She is going to be a problem when she becomes a teenager if they do not get a handle on it.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Kid

[Foghorn Leghorn]

She is a problem now!!!  LOL. 

[lookeyloo]

2 minutes ago, Kid said:

I was thinking the same thing!!!!    And not just in the hotel room. She was rolling around on the floor everywhere. 

 And with regard to your comment about rolling on the floor in the pod and not taking her grandmothers hand, let me tell you, there should have been NO ice cream in her future given the defiance she was showing and it should've been made clear to her that's why there would be no ice cream in her future.   She is big on showing defiance. That is what got under my skin at the castle when she went behind the ropes and they told her to come back. She kept walking and looking back at them with that look on her face. She is going to be a problem when she becomes a teenager if they do not get a handle on it.

A lot of "modern" parenting is like this.  I'm of an older generation and my friends with grandchildren can't believe how kids are parented nowadays.  Of course not all kids, but, the ones we are familiar with and the ones they are familiar with so there are a lot of them.  My grandchildren are semi-parented that way.  They are mostly good kids, now and then, mostly the granddaughter who is 14 will as she calls it "throw a fit" and it usually works with her parents. My rules are "No means No, I say what I mean and I mean what I say, and if I say No, no amount of crying, fits, etc will ever get me to Yes, so don't try".  They all love me and are very well behaved with me.  Put a parent in the room and things could fall apart, especially with the granddaughter.  And modern parents talk talk talk, explain, explain explain and give too many choices.  I see Bill and Jen falling into this.  No choice.  Just a request with a consequence and then do the hard part - Follow Through even if inconvenient.  It is hard, I know, but necessary.  Once when we were sort of poor I treated my boys to fast food hamburgers.  They wouldn't stop bickering over ketchup.  I said once more and we are throwing the food away and leaving.  Well, once more happened and I did and they were dumbfounded and were silent in the car and just took themselves to bed when we got home. And that never happened again. Other things, yes, they are not perfect, but, not that.  And when I said something they knew I meant it.  So Bill and Jen if they are interested need to start meaning what they say.  Expect a kind of war until kids realize no amount of found and fit pitching will work.

[gonecrackers]

I wonder if this is a set up for some kind of parenting classes or family counseling at some point in this season. I haven't seen any inkling of that in the previews yet though. I do think they'd benefit tremendously from the help.

I also think they have a nanny stashed somewhere at home but she probably didn't come on the family trip & may not appear on camera for some reason. I think it's okay to show they have help & maybe they will; they certainly have the room for her in that new mansion. Due to their small statures, especially Jen's, I'd think it would be a safety issue & they'd really need live-in help. Luckily they can afford it!

[gunderda]

On 9/21/2017 at 9:12 PM, gonecrackers said:

I wondered about the media failing during her keynote, & whether or not that was a TLC stunt. I could just picture the coaching to the audience - 'now just stare straight ahead at Jen & we'll make this look really uncomfortable' LOL.

 

On 9/21/2017 at 10:10 PM, BitterApple said:

I think it was a TLC stunt. When Jen was wrapping up her speech, the slide behind her said "Thank You" in big letters with smaller text underneath. I'm assuming that was the end of the media presentation. 

 

On 9/25/2017 at 6:56 PM, Absolom said:

Yes to all of the above.  My daughter has to give presentations much like Jen's address and she's there in plenty of time before the presentation to check out the media situation.   She always has presentations in the Cloud, on the laptop, on a stick, and who knows how many other places.  Anywhere she and her husband can think of it seems plus on actual paper especially for big ones I've seen.  I wonder if this was a TLC driven event during a break in the real program for whoever they could get into the seats.  

I felt SO bad for Jen during the mishap with her presentation. And it wasn't her presentation, it seemed to be a problem with it showing up on the projector. So there's nothing that she could have done with a million copies of that thing.  And there's probably a pretty good chance she had a digital copy of it available before her presentation for the attendees. And if not then she probably gave it out after if people asked.

We hold a yearly conference that is pretty large for what we do and the speakers have a maximum of 10 min between each session to get their's all set up and ready to go and that IF the speaker ahead of them didn't go over their allotted time. It looked like Jen was a breakout session so she probably didn't have the time to go in and make sure it was all working perfectly. And maybe it was in the session before.  We don't know.  What we do know is that they eventually got it up and running.  They probably worked on it until it was fixed (which was probably annoying to the attendees if they had to see a screen flash on and off for a period of time). 

But I feel so bad for speakers when this happens to them because it's usually never their fault and it's usually never the AV person's fault either.  Shit happens and yes it will throw off a speaker because they probably know it irritates the attendees.  Attendees are so hard on speakers on their evaluations when something like this happens and I hate it.  God forbid we can't look at a powerpoint presentation for an hour because we're assholes and can't just pay attention to what someone is saying. 

I had a horrific experience at our last conference with the ending 'keynote' who's computer would not work at all with the hotel's audio system, even though everyone who used it before was just fine and I essentially got yelled at by him, during his presentation, because I happened to be sitting there because before him we did a presentation from my computer for the closing ceremony and I couldn't do a damn thing! Eventually the hotel staff was able to figure out a work around, but god.... I got yelled at and then the evaluations had to comment on it as well. And we had an hour to try and get his audio to work and the hotel staff couldn't figure it out.  And his audio was working... it just wasn't loud enough for his preference. 

[Kid]

23 hours ago, CalicoskiesNC said:

Geesh, judge much?  So opinionated in raising other people's children. I think we have very happy kids and very happy parents. They make me happy watching their experiences. The kids are often corrected and behave appropriately.  I think both Will and Zoe are extremely bright kids and may have more challenges developmentally than other children. That said, all issues are being addressed and this family truly is filled with love. Life with kids is about teaching not constant punishment.  I wish we could see the Kleins travel more!  Cute stuff with the Abbey Road photos. 

I agree that there is a lot of love in that family.  I do not see teaching.  I see acquiescing.  And that leads to lack of boundaries and that leads to dysfunction.  Discipline is love as well.  Not child abuse, discipline.  Actions have consequences is a lesson that needs to be taught.  Otherwise the result is entitled brats (which I do not think they have become yet).  

[RemoteControlFreak]

An important point was made above that Bill and Jen are producers on this show.  So obviously they think the behavior of their children and their parenting style is acceptable to portray without shame or awareness of their mistakes.

The final 5 minutes of the London episode give some clear examples of what they're doing wrong:

1. In the London Eye, the kids refuse to listen to a simple request to turn around for a fraction of a second and pose for a photo. For a photo! 

2. Jen resorts to bribing them with ice cream just to turn around. They respond immediately. This indicates that they are used to being bribed for the simplest request and are used to ignoring their parents unless bribed.  (In a separate talking head, Bill endorses the idea of bribes.)

3. After turning around, Will starts pushing on his mother and demanding a popsicle.  Jen allows him to badger her and to physically push her which, considering that he's nearly as tall as she is and probably heavier, presents a safety issue among other things.  She doesn't correct his badgering and pushing but encourages him to pose and say "popsicle."

4. At the tea party, the kids are actually behaving pretty well but it's Bill who  picks up the tea strainer and pretends it's a pirate's eye patch so of course Will joins in. There was zero reason to do this and it only emphasizes to the kids that it's fine to play with eating utensils because Daddy is doing it.  This is Bill's penchant to put his desire to be his kids' funny friend over his obligation to be an authoritative adult who models appropriate behavior.

Bill and Jen seem to think that simply rescuing their kids from orphanages and now having happy and relatively healthy kids is proof of their success. It's part of it, but it's not all of it. They have set the standard for their children's behavior way too low. This helps no one.

I don't think this is just a function of the current generation of permissive parents. It's unfair to all the other current parents young children who discipline their kids effectively to paint them all with the same broad brush.

Edited September 28, 2017 by RemoteControlFreak

[Foghorn Leghorn]

The 7 Little Johnstons are little people with 5 little people children who behave well showing their parenting skills are spot on for the most part and reflected in their kids.   Jen and Bill could do it but just won't which is too bad for the kids.  

Edited September 28, 2017 by Foghorn Leghorn

[gunderda]

14 minutes ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

The 7 Little Johnstons are little people with 5 little people children who behave well showing their parenting skills are spot on for the most part and reflected in their kids.   Jen and Bill could do it but just won't which is too bad for the kids.  

they're also older.... Alex is probably the most comparable in age even though I think Will and Zoey are still younger and people dont think Alex is well behaved either. 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

2 minutes ago, gunderda said:

they're also older.... Alex is probably the most comparable in age even though I think Will and Zoey are still younger and people dont think Alex is well behaved either. 

They were all raised from infants except for Emma who was not when they adopted her.  Alex is babied by Amber and and his behaviour needs improvement but overall they did a much better job than Jen and Bill are doing. 

[RemoteControlFreak]

25 minutes ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

They were all raised from infants except for Emma who was not when they adopted her.  Alex is babied by Amber and and his behaviour needs improvement but overall they did a much better job than Jen and Bill are doing. 

I haven't seen the 7 Johnsons, but I Googled them and according to this article, only two of the five kids were raised from infancy. The other three were adopted at 6 months (OK, still infancy), 4 years and 5 years.

Edited September 28, 2017 by RemoteControlFreak

[gunderda]

38 minutes ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

They were all raised from infants except for Emma who was not when they adopted her.  Alex is babied by Amber and and his behaviour needs improvement but overall they did a much better job than Jen and Bill are doing. 

But you still can't compare the attitudes of teenagers (supposedly really behaved at that) to really young kids.  And I am now probably in the camp that Bill and Jen are maybe a little too lax (i gave them a pretty good pass last season) but you really can't compare them. 

[truebluesmoky]

Having kids myself, I will say that being so far out of their routines and comfort zone would definitely make their behavior naughtier than they might be at home. It's a 5 or 6 hour time difference and the time appeared to be pretty packed with activities.

I tend to think that Jen and Bill would be okay with having the kids' naughty behaviors being the ones shown on TV because either they themselves think or producers have told them that that's what will make an interesting episode. A trip to the park or a restaurant where everyone plays calmly or eats quietly is like watching grass grow. I'm not particularly entertained by the naughtiness and am looking more forward to next week's speech therapy stuff, but I suspect that it's being shown on purpose. I'm not saying the kids are perfectly behaved in all other footage, but I suspect the "zaniest" stuff is chosen for air.

[Absolom]

6 hours ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

There's no reason to do that.

No reason except TLC has been known to insert staged drama into shows on a regular basis.  

[Foghorn Leghorn]

19 minutes ago, gunderda said:

But you still can't compare the attitudes of teenagers (supposedly really behaved at that) to really young kids.  And I am now probably in the camp that Bill and Jen are maybe a little too lax (i gave them a pretty good pass last season) but you really can't compare them. 

You are missing my point I think....the Johnston Tweens/teens didn't just become that way, they were raised from Will and Zoey's age approximately...if Jen and Bill don't nip it in the bud now at their younger ages they will never have disciplined older kids.  I am not comparing the kids now to each other but how they were raised!

[PradaKitty]

Jan rally needs to stop using food as a reward.  Will is already  "food obsessed" and using food as a reward generally leads to weight/eating issues.  The occasional popsicle (say after being good at a medical appointment) is fine, but it's being overdone at this point.

[RemoteControlFreak]

14 minutes ago, truebluesmoky said:

Having kids myself, I will say that being so far out of their routines and comfort zone would definitely make their behavior naughtier than they might be at home. It's a 5 or 6 hour time difference and the time appeared to be pretty packed with activities.

They were there for a week. Jet lag doesn't last that long.

[BitterApple]

I think the main problem is this was basically a working trip for the entire family. Jen had her conference and everyone else had to film for TLC. That likely meant long days where tons of activities had to be crammed in to get footage. They couldn't stop or work around the kids' schedules because Stuff Needed To Be Filmed. On a normal family vacation, if the kids get tired or bored you can leave or go back to the hotel or move on to something else, but in this case the Kleins had to stick it out til the end. It also didn't help that literally nothing on this trip, with the exception of the playground, would hold the interest of a 4 and 6 year-old for any serious length of time. It was just an ill-planned venture all the way around.

Edited September 28, 2017 by BitterApple

[Libby]

I think that the problem is not the children misbehaving, but Bill and Jen's reactions when they do. While it's true that all children misbehave sometimes, Jen and Bill do nothing to teach their children so that they behave better next time. Because of Bill and Jen's failure to parent properly the children aren't learning from their mistakes or what is acceptable behavior and what isn't.

[Jellybeans]

Everyone raises their kids differently.  I did not care for the way Amber spoke to Anna when she was putting makeup on her.  She is overly critical instead of supportive.  But that's the way Amber is.  Not sure why we are comparing these two families.  They are very different.  But back to Amber and Trent, I think they are good parents but I don't like the way Amber talks to Anna.

 And I thought the Arnold kids did fairly well, considering they were seeing a LOT in a short time.  It is very hard to travel with young kids when there is a lot to see.  

I can't imagine being under a microscope all the time and having my parenting skills criticized all the time.  I wonder what ya'll would say about mine, lol.

I thought Will said the sweetest thing when he motioned that the best part of the trip was being with everyone.  

Jen also had carrots, etc., for the kids.  Say what you want about their food, the kids are not heavy and they healthy.  

[Foghorn Leghorn]

2 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

Everyone raises their kids differently.  I did not care for the way Amber spoke to Anna when she was putting makeup on her.  She is overly critical instead of supportive.  But that's the way Amber is.  Not sure why we are comparing these two families.  They are very different.  But back to Amber and Trent, I think they are good parents but I don't like the way Amber talks to Anna.

 And I thought the Arnold kids did fairly well, considering they were seeing a LOT in a short time.  It is very hard to travel with young kids when there is a lot to see.  

I can't imagine being under a microscope all the time and having my parenting skills criticized all the time.  I wonder what ya'll would say about mine, lol.

I thought Will said the sweetest thing when he motioned that the best part of the trip was being with everyone.  

Jen also had carrots, etc., for the kids.  Say what you want about their food, the kids are not heavy and they healthy.  

I compared the two families because they are ALL little people.  Anna is a handful and they have said that she and Anna do not get along but the other kids are mature and have good hearts.  

I don't recall a post about the kids food although comments were made about Jen ordering a full plate then sending 95% of it back, she eats the fries and a bite of fish and boom she is done...sharing a meal is not in their wheelhouse bu they have money to burn!!  LOL

[BitterApple]

7 minutes ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

 

I don't recall a post about the kids food although comments were made about Jen ordering a full plate then sending 95% of it back, she eats the fries and a bite of fish and boom she is done...sharing a meal is not in their wheelhouse bu they have money to burn!!  LOL

That drives me crazy because they do it all the time. When they were in that Scotland pub there was an entire platter of fish and chips handed back to the waitress that looked like it hadn't even been touched. If taking leftovers back to the hotel isn't an option, then split meals. Food going to waste is a massive pet peeve of mine.

[Jellybeans]

Well about the food...why should everyone order the same thing just because they are little people?  And I am not a little person but I seldom finish my plate when I eat out, nor do I bring it home.  Fact is, they serve way too much food in restaurants.  Is it my fault they bring enough food for an army at one meal?  I like french fries but I only want 3-5 fries.  Yeah, really. And I will pay for it.  And I only want a half a hamburger.  And no, I am not taking it home.  I would order a slider but they bring THREE of them!!!

It has to be frustrating to be a little person living in a big size world, and the big size world wants the little guys to adapt to them rather than letting them figure out their own sizes and adaptations. 

See you guys next week.

[Ina123]

1 minute ago, Jellybeans said:

 And I am not a little person but I seldom finish my plate when I eat out, nor do I bring it home.  Fact is, they serve way too much food in restaurants.  Is it my fault they bring enough food for an army at one meal?  I like french fries but I only want 3-5 fries.  Yeah, really. And I will pay for it.  And I only want a half a hamburger.  And no, I am not taking it home.  I would order a slider but they bring THREE of them!!!

 

I can't fault it either. The servings are just too much. I have actually asked for a kid's meal if possible. And, yes, I don't always want to share food because I'm in the mood for something else. I don't take leftovers home because I just don't like them later. Well, some things I will eat later warmed in the microwave. Spaghetti is a good example. But any sandwiches are just a no.

[AZChristian]

3 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

I can't fault it either. The servings are just too much. I have actually asked for a kid's meal if possible. And, yes, I don't always want to share food because I'm in the mood for something else. I don't take leftovers home because I just don't like them later. Well, some things I will eat later warmed in the microwave. Spaghetti is a good example. But any sandwiches are just a no.

Jen DID ask for the smallest serving of fish and chips for herself.  But it was a table full of people having fish and chips, and two kids who wanted fries with their cheeseburger and hot dog.  Why not just order the cheeseburger and hot dog a la carte and then everyone share that massive amount of fries?  Most restaurants are very accommodating when customers request something a little different.  I would imagine that if a server looked at Bill and Jen, they would have no problem allowing them to order from the children's menu because of their size.  I do it all the time, and they let me do it because I'm old and can't eat much.

Hubby and I realized a few months ago that Denny's has a "choose four" slam, and they will let two people split it!!!  So he orders a pancake and two eggs over easy; I order a pancake and two eggs over medium.  Denny's calls that a total of four items, and they split it up in the kitchen so that we don't have to be cutting up items on our own to share.  We're not only not wasting food, we're not overeating, and we're saving money. 

I realize that Bill and Jen don't have to worry about the money angle, but that horrendous waste of food just floored me.

[Madtown]

Newbie to the forums here. I have followed though since the show started and on Twop. Love reading everyone's posts! 

First let me start by saying that  Mr.M and I never had children, though I worked with kids for 30 years starting when I was 16 with my first job in a daycare. The way Will and Zoey behave drives me batty, BUT I put full blame on Jen and Bill, Jen more. First, as many stated, this trip was not a trip for kids. However, they are old enough that they should be able to behave for a little awhile. Either that or have them stay back at the hotel with someone. My siblings and I didn't always like going places that my parents went to, but when we had to go, we behaved because we knew what would happen if we didn't.

I know everyone raises kids differently and it's soooooo much different from when I was raised. It just drives me nuts when they misbehave and nothing is ever done about it, though again, editing could come in play. Maybe they do punish them, but don't want that aired. Seeing that they are producers, it baffles me that they put what they do out there.

As far as the bribes for pictures, constantly hearing Jen or Bill's dad asking them to turn around or smile drove me nuts. I've taken a lot of pictures of the kids I watched for their parents and never did I have to bribe them. How many pictures do you think they took while on this trip? Kids don't want a thousand pictures taken. Even I knew my limit when taking pictures. If you have to start bribing them, you've taken too many.

I would love to know how they behave in school. Since Will stated "burps" were his favorite thing in school, it really makes me wonder. As much as I love children and have massive amounts of patience with them, I think spending one day in their house would be too much for me. Again, I think it would be Jen just as much as the kids. With her constantly asking them over and over to do something or if they want something, I wouldn't be able to NOT interfere..lol

[SMama]

FWIW Amy Roloff raised three average sized children practically on her own (Matt did not do much). She is taller than Jen but I'm sure many thought she could not do it on her own. I would not be surprised if they have a nanny, and I do not think they owe anyone featuring her on the show. Especially if the nanny is not comfortable with the exposure. I would never want to be featured on a so called reality TV show. 

My ten year old daughter does not eat from the children's menu (hasn't since she was a toddler), she does not want kiddie fare. She loves lobster, shrimp, prawns, sushi, well she has a well developed palate. We do not want to punish her for wanting to eat better. She simply eats leftovers the next day. If we are traveling and it is not possible, oh well, such is life.

[TwirlyGirly]

19 minutes ago, SMama said:

<snip>

My ten year old daughter does not eat from the children's menu (hasn't since she was a toddler), she does not want kiddie fare. She loves lobster, shrimp, prawns, sushi, well she has a well developed palate. We do not want to punish her for wanting to eat better. She simply eats leftovers the next day. If we are traveling and it is not possible, oh well, such is life.

My daughter never ate from the kid's menu, either - even when she was a toddler. She'd choose something off the appetizer menu, and have that as her entrée. Of course, when she was 3-4 years old she couldn't read the menu, so I'd read it to her. Once she decided on an item, when the waiter/waitress came to take the orders, she would order her selection herself.

I'll never forget when we were in Tampa, FL and she had just turned four. We went out to dinner to a nice seafood restaurant. My daughter was thrilled to discover Escargot Bourguignon on the appetizer menu, and choose that for her entrée. When the waiter came to take our table's order and it was her turn, she said "I'd like the escargot, please." He then looked at ME and asked "Does she know what that is?" My daughter, quite indignantly, replied "Yes. They are SNAILS and I LOVE them!"

Nevertheless, when our table was served, our waiter remained skeptical. He, along with two other waiters, removed themselves to a corner, partially hidden by a screen, and WATCHED as my daughter gobbled down her snails one by one....LOL!

I have a small appetite now (is this an age thing?) and I often order off the appetizer menu. A popular seafood restaurant near our house has a wonderful steamed mussels appetizer that's absolutely HUGE. That, along with the delicious bread (warm!) served to every table is plenty for me. If I'm REALLY hungry, I sometimes order a small side salad to accompany the mussels. Saves money, and no waste.

The point is, there are alternatives available to Jen other than ordering a meal, eating 1/4th of it, and having the rest of it thrown away. It surprises me because Zoey is from India - a country in which a good portion of the populace doesn't have enough to eat -. so it seems odd that Jen isn't a bit more sensitive to the issue of food waste and isn't modeling better behavior for her children and the viewing audience in regards to this problem.

[Jellybeans]

@TwirlyGirly just wanted to say that is awesome about your daughter.  My kids ate everything too.  They will eat anything if offered in the right way.

About food waste, being sensitive, etc... sometimes people just want to eat.  It is how I am.  I go out to eat, the restaurant serves me too much food...and in my mind, I make it their problem, not mine.  I refuse to stress over it, that's why I am eating out.  Perhaps it is the same for Jen.  She is a busy woman.  Maybe if more people send their plates back with uneaten food they will get the message.  But something tells me most people want big portions.

At home, I don't cook too much food.

This is an old argument so I won't beat on it anymore.  I did want to comment about the snails.  Yay for escargot!

[gunderda]

1 hour ago, TwirlyGirly said:

I have a small appetite now (is this an age thing?) and I often order off the appetizer menu.

It would be REALLY nice if it is! I feel like I think about food ALL the time... lol

Appetizers lately are really large also - as they should be since they're usually the same price as a meal. 

[Jellybeans]

I just had a thought...is it fair to compare little people families since we don't compare big people families?  

[Libby]

27 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

I just had a thought...is it fair to compare little people families since we don't compare big people families?  

There are 184 posts in this thread. Less than 5 of them compare the Kleins to the Johnstons. The vast majority of the posts question the Kleins parenting skills. The Kleins parenting skills definately deserve questioning. The fact that they are little people is irrelevant. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Libby

[mythoughtis]

Jump over to the Duggar and Bateses Forums. They are compared to each other. The two Roloff sons are compared to each other. The Kody Brown baby mamas/offspring  are all compared. 

I  think it's more a matter of contrasting parents in charge vs kids in charge. Hopefully Bill and Jenn will get some feedback from the kids teachers and parents of classmates. Part of their issues are their size, their physical limitations( they are worse off than the Johnstons) , the kids early upbringing, and Bill and Jenns lack of exposure to children. Jenn works with sick newborns not pre-schoolers. 

[luvbadtv]

20 hours ago, Libby said:

There are 184 posts in this thread. Less than 5 of them compare the Kleins to the Johnstons. The vast majority of the posts question the Kleins parenting skills. The Kleins parenting skills definately deserve questioning. The fact that they are little people is irrelevant. 

I think the comparisons were in regards to accessing a little person's ability to properly discipline their children.  So it makes sense to me.

Edited September 29, 2017 by luvbadtv

[Mindthinkr]

On 9/27/2017 at 7:39 PM, sATL said:

 

I'm old school, raised by old school, and my offspring were raised old school. I didn't do count to 3 either. My mom's phase was "I am not  a tape machine (her words for tape recorder), so we needed to mind her the 1st time something was said.

 

Old school here too. My friends say I'm too formal but so what. I like manners. Seems like we are the last of a dying breed. 

[sATL]

6 hours ago, luvbadtv said:

I think the comparison were in regards to accessing a little person's ability to properly discipline their children.  So it makes sense to me.

I don't think size matters when it comes to utilizing basic parenting skills and teaching manners/discipline.

My son is  now 6'2'' - and reminded him during his growth spurt when he passed my height - "you're not too big to be bigger than me ". To quote Cosby (who probably got it from somebody else) " I brought you in this world.. I'll take you out ".

[CPMOMMM]

I generally enjoy watching The Little Couple and admire the way Bill and Jen parent their children. But this Tuesday night's episode was a turn off for me and I'm not sure if I am continue to watch. Will and Zoey's behaviors were not cute~ not cute at all!! I believe TLC had a hand in that especially when the grandfather was trying to take Will and Zoey's picture and they kept running back and forth and away from him. That was obvious a TLC set up and someone was egging those kids on to run back and forth.  The kids reminded me of the Gosselins kids acting wild and TLC presenting them like that. I felt that Bill and Jen were above letting TLC present their kids unruly.

What I am disappointed in is when the family was shopping for the kilts and Will and Zoey kept running around the store and Jen commented that when the kids are in a store they think its a playground and then she laughed. How would Bill and Jen like it if some kids randomly ran around Rocky and Maggie's Pet Store~ their own store and the kids treating it was   like a playground after all the work they have put into it ? Would Jen be laughing then? I think Bill and Jen need to have more approval in the production and editing of their show and not allow TLC to make their kids look so unruly and untamed.

[AZChristian]

27 minutes ago, CPMOMMM said:

What I am disappointed in is when the family was shopping for the kilts and Will and Zoey kept running around the store and Jen commented that when the kids are in a store they think its a playground and then she laughed. How would Bill and Jen like it if some kids randomly ran around Rocky and Maggie's Pet Store~ their own store and the kids treating it was   like a playground after all the work they have put into it ? Would Jen be laughing then? I think Bill and Jen need to have more approval in the production and editing of their show and not allow TLC to make their kids look so unruly and untamed.

SUCH a good point!  I wonder how Bill would react if someone else's kids started opening up cages or dumping pet food all over the store?

ETA:  And the parents just stood there repeating multiple times:  "I'm going to count to three . . . "

Edited September 30, 2017 by AZChristian

[Emily Thrace]

On 9/28/2017 at 3:14 AM, RedheadZombie said:

 I could see Will getting excited and going off with someone.  And that's frightening.

I'm not so sure about that. I remember when he started at school he was really hesitant and really glad to see Bill and Jen when they came to pick him up at the end of the day. So I don't think he would just run off. I think a big part of his initial reaction  to Bill and Jen was just seeing someone like him. He is trusting but I think he is bonded a lot more with Bill and Jen then he was with his caregivers in China.

[RedheadZombie]

19 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

I'm not so sure about that. I remember when he started at school he was really hesitant and really glad to see Bill and Jen when they came to pick him up at the end of the day. So I don't think he would just run off. I think a big part of his initial reaction  to Bill and Jen was just seeing someone like him. He is trusting but I think he is bonded a lot more with Bill and Jen then he was with his caregivers in China.

Oh, I agree.  There's no doubt he's bonded to Jen and Bill.  It was just concerning for me that there was no reaction to going from China where everyone looked like him, then he's suddenly with two white strangers - yet he never stopped grinning.  Whereas Zoey's caretaker seemed less than nurturing, yet she clung to the woman with all her might.  Her reaction seemed a more normal, and healthy yet traumatic reaction. 

I'm glad you think he would not go with someone.  He now seems so trusting, as compared to Zoey who seems suspicious of everyone but horses and family.

[RedheadZombie]

6 hours ago, CPMOMMM said:

I generally enjoy watching The Little Couple and admire the way Bill and Jen parent their children. But this Tuesday night's episode was a turn off for me and I'm not sure if I am continue to watch. Will and Zoey's behaviors were not cute~ not cute at all!! I believe TLC had a hand in that especially when the grandfather was trying to take Will and Zoey's picture and they kept running back and forth and away from him. That was obvious a TLC set up and someone was egging those kids on to run back and forth.  The kids reminded me of the Gosselins kids acting wild and TLC presenting them like that. I felt that Bill and Jen were above letting TLC present their kids unruly.

What I am disappointed in is when the family was shopping for the kilts and Will and Zoey kept running around the store and Jen commented that when the kids are in a store they think its a playground and then she laughed. How would Bill and Jen like it if some kids randomly ran around Rocky and Maggie's Pet Store~ their own store and the kids treating it was   like a playground after all the work they have put into it ? Would Jen be laughing then? I think Bill and Jen need to have more approval in the production and editing of their show and not allow TLC to make their kids look so unruly and untamed.

This would bother me greatly if it's true - So much so, that I have to believe it is not.  IMO, the poor/lack of discipline is a combo of continuing to view their children as wounded birds, a little mother's guilt by Jen, Bill trying too hard to be a friend, the plain, honest fact that discipline is hard and giving in is easier, and perhaps unwillingness to discipline on camera.  And I'll add in the not uncommon belief that discipline is not really necessary when you surround your children with love and kindness.  I always remind myself that a certain family showed their children nothing but love, kindness, indulgence, and the best their money could by - the Hiltons.

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 11:18 AM, truebluesmoky said:

Having kids myself, I will say that being so far out of their routines and comfort zone would definitely make their behavior naughtier than they might be at home. It's a 5 or 6 hour time difference and the time appeared to be pretty packed with activities.

I tend to think that Jen and Bill would be okay with having the kids' naughty behaviors being the ones shown on TV because either they themselves think or producers have told them that that's what will make an interesting episode. A trip to the park or a restaurant where everyone plays calmly or eats quietly is like watching grass grow. I'm not particularly entertained by the naughtiness and am looking more forward to next week's speech therapy stuff, but I suspect that it's being shown on purpose. I'm not saying the kids are perfectly behaved in all other footage, but I suspect the "zaniest" stuff is chosen for air.

You may be right, but if you are I will lose respect for Bill and Jen - same as above.  These people are quite well off, and state they do this show to educate.  So the possibility that they are allowing their children to be deliberately and unnecessarily stressed, and their resulting bad behavior immortalized for the world to view - well the thought actually sickens me.  So at this time, as above, I just can't believe this.  This would be Gosselin level of what many refer to as abuse.  Putting the show before the well-being of the children.  And while I believe the children would do much better if they weren't on the show, I have to believe that Bill and Jen are not knowingly compromising their children's welfare.  I think they've topped out on teaching, and perhaps are now teaching "what not to do" as a parent.  I would love for Jo Frost to work with them.  She is no nonsense, boundaries and discipline, but lots of cuddles and praise.  I also secretly believe that with Jen's own disciplined life style and no nonsense manner, that if she were fully supported by Bill, there would be more consistency and stronger boundaries.  I think Bill is a wonderful loving and warm father, but he's also the goof ball who encourages the theory that life is all about doing what you want to do and having fun. 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Will was extremely bonded to his caretakers in China...they had to film the gotcha moment 2x because he was crying so much.  They told us that in a Q&A session.  They showed us the happy parts of course!

Edited September 30, 2017 by Foghorn Leghorn

[Snow8585]

I was worried when Will and Zoey kept running away from Bill's dad at the Victoria Memorial in front of BP.  Had the fences not been there next to the Memorial, it is quite possible those two could have run into the road where cars were zooming by.  Those kids are small enough to squeeze through fences, open baby gates at home,  and ignore roped off areas as we saw. And I could not believe it took 4 screaming adults to stop Will from throwing the stick into the fountain. I have to believe that there are enough producers and minders around to prevent Will and Zoey from getting hit by cars etc. while TLC is filming but what happens at home when the crew is not there? They live in a huge house, with a pool it seems even larger than the one in Houston, and Will and Zoey are getting to be the size of their parents. Bill and Jen really are not able to stop them anymore it seems. Bill still has some lingering back issues and Jen is just not physically capable of handling them.  Plus she has a new job and really needs to focus on settling in there. They may have a number of bedrooms in their home, but I doubt they are going to have a live in Nanny have a bedroom right along side them and their kids.

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

Will was extremely bonded to his caretakers in China...they had to film the gotcha moment 2x because he was crying so much.  They told us that in a Q&A session.  They showed us the happy parts of course!

Interesting.  By no means am I glad that Will suffered, but it's actually a good thing that he was able to bond to his earliest caregivers.  I don't so much mind them not showing Will's initial misery, although it's not being true to their desire to teach.  I know that I was painfully uncomfortable at seeing Zoey's misery when they got her in India, but I will admit I didn't look away.  I watched.  So I'm part of the problem, if there is one.  How can I judge Jen and Bill, when I watched.  BUT, I was not Zoey's protector in that moment, and they were.

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, Snow8585 said:

I was worried when Will and Zoey kept running away from Bill's dad at the Victoria Memorial in front of BP.  Had the fences not been there next to the Memorial, it is quite possible those two could have run into the road where cars were zooming by.  

I was more concerned that they would fall or run into people . . . and in this crazy world, kids should always be within arm's reach of their parents when in a crowd like this.

(Also - not arguing - but I'm not sure that there are cars "zooming by" in the area around the Memorial - especially just before the changing of the guard ceremony.  I've been there several times, and don't recall cars in the area.  Not like the traffic circle around the Arc de Triomphe in Paris - 7 lanes, NO LINE MARKINGS!!!)

[Absolom]

I finally watched the episode last night and one line by Jen I think is at the root of the parenting problem.  I can't remember it exactly now, but they were on the bus and Will was laughing.  Jen said I don't care what else is going on, I just want to enjoy the kids being happy.  I do think Bill and Jen have gotten a bit too caught up in the kids being happy.  I can see though with the lives they both lead as children, getting kids from basically orphanages who had been abandoned, knowing the kids will have quite a few rough spots in life, Jen surviving cancer, It might be hard to not concentrate on the kids being happy.  I think some objective views that they may have tipped too far could be good for them, but I can see how they got there.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

^^^^Agree re the happy comment by Jen, she said it more than once too...like being happy trumps discipline or respect for others like their behavior in the store.