The Lonely Js Club: Jana, Jason, James, Jackson & Johannah

[queenanne]

19 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

JD and Jana may have an average skill set but they lack a typical transition into adulthood. Most kids ease into adulthood by riding their bike a little farther, staying home alone, working a part-time job, going away to college, etc. It's one of the reasons Jill is failing at adulthood - she went from crying in daddy's shoulder at the dentist to the marriage bed without much in between. This lack of transition would certainly add to a lack of self-confidence.

If JD is as laid back as he appears, I think he would be able to manage and push through the initial discomfort of calling all his own shots.

There's even something to be said for making your kid do their own dentistry, outside of the years when you can't trust the kid to be able to report accurately upon what a dentist says to them.  I now go to solo doctors' appointments for surgeries where my parents are all, "Um, are you sure you don't want one of us to travel out to be with you?", and it's largely because neither has accompanied me into a doctors' office post-aged fourteen, unless something that needed parental permission was being discussed.

[awaken]

8 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

Let's play Wedding Day.......

Engaged on Valentine's Day

Wedding in mid-May.....

Pregnant by summer.....

baby by next Valentine’s Day/anniversary....

there. Next season of counting on has been written. 

[Rabbittron]

Only have to do for the show is 2 Photoshop different faces onto the footage that they have now because buy used save the difference because as we all know it's the same old same old

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

JD and Jana may have an average skill set but they lack a typical transition into adulthood. Most kids ease into adulthood by riding their bike a little farther, staying home alone, working a part-time job, going away to college, etc. It's one of the reasons Jill is failing at adulthood - she went from crying in daddy's shoulder at the dentist to the marriage bed without much in between. This lack of transition would certainly add to a lack of self-confidence.

If JD is as laid back as he appears, I think he would be able to manage and push through the initial discomfort of calling all his own shots.

Oh, yeah, I had this transition problem. Thanks for this analysis. 

I had to go from close to zero to highway speed literally overnight. And I was a huge mess in most ways, for years, because of that. But I just kept going -- because I was not going to go back -- even though I was basically a disaster area for a long long time.  And I've always been way behindhand in the confidence area because I could see the vast differences between where I was and where everybody else was who was the same age. I'll die that way no doubt.

But you can still do it. .... I'm laid back in some ways and not at all in others. So I can definitely see what you mean about JD's laidbackness, to the extent that he has it, being helpful to him. 

But as @bigskygirl mentioned earlier, the sticking point for them may be on that thing that kept me going. I'd realized the wrongness of my early situation for so long and so acutely that I would rather have died than have returned to it. ....

But ... not at all clear where a Duggarling -- or anybody, really -- will come down on a point like this. For some, it might be persisting in the outside world that seems like the fate worse than death. Hard to see who'll feel which way, when push comes to shove, I think. 

[ChocolateAddict]

Let's just look at what skills and knowledge one of the kids would need to have (or learn quickly) to break totally free. 

How to find a house or apartment - nope. They've all been living in TTH or daddy's rental properties. They have no contacts or friends who aren't part of the cult and probably wouldn't have the cash for a deposit or bond. 

How to find a job - definitely not. Most of us learnt that you walk around asking businesses or look on the internet. Then we learnt how to put together a resume and how to present ourselves in interviews. Not only to the Duggars have no qualifications (JD excluded), all their work experience has been for Duggar Industries. They've been told for years that the only acceptable employment is self employment. That's a lot to overcome just to start earning. 

How to be financially stable - probs a no on this one too. The oldest would remember what is was like living on "love offerings" but the middle and younger ones have grown up with trips to New York to be on "Good Morning America" and MacBooks. They wouldn't know how to open a bank account, balance a budget or pay taxes. 

The SOTDRT certainly didn't teach any of that. And the deliberate isolation means that they would struggle to find people to support them while they learnt. They would have to leave their family, friends and whole belief system to go. 

Since they've been on TV, they have been able to get away with filming some stuff, taking some photos and otherwise sitting on their backsides doing very little. Even though it might be miserable, the outside world with all its challenges would be petrifying and hard work. Sadly, I can't see any of them fully breaking away. 

[mythoughtis]

Chocolate addict- people who say ‘ well they can leave any time’ need to read your post. It’s an excellent reminder of why that’s so difficult. 

Add to that the fact that that 2 of the 3 offspring that have left(Josh, Jill, Jinger) have come  back home defeated by life.  Yes, Jill is now in an apartment off the compound- but we don’t know how long that will last.  She couldn’t even do the apartment thing without Derick. 

Edited January 14, 2018 by mythoughtis

[bythelake]

1 hour ago, ChocolateAddict said:

Let's just look at what skills and knowledge one of the kids would need to have (or learn quickly) to break totally free. 

How to find a house or apartment - nope. They've all been living in TTH or daddy's rental properties. They have no contacts or friends who aren't part of the cult and probably wouldn't have the cash for a deposit or bond. 

How to find a job - definitely not. Most of us learnt that you walk around asking businesses or look on the internet. Then we learnt how to put together a resume and how to present ourselves in interviews. Not only to the Duggars have no qualifications (JD excluded), all their work experience has been for Duggar Industries. They've been told for years that the only acceptable employment is self employment. That's a lot to overcome just to start earning. 

How to be financially stable - probs a no on this one too. The oldest would remember what is was like living on "love offerings" but the middle and younger ones have grown up with trips to New York to be on "Good Morning America" and MacBooks. They wouldn't know how to open a bank account, balance a budget or pay taxes. 

The SOTDRT certainly didn't teach any of that. And the deliberate isolation means that they would struggle to find people to support them while they learnt. They would have to leave their family, friends and whole belief system to go. 

Since they've been on TV, they have been able to get away with filming some stuff, taking some photos and otherwise sitting on their backsides doing very little. Even though it might be miserable, the outside world with all its challenges would be petrifying and hard work. Sadly, I can't see any of them fully breaking away. 

But, don't you remember in an early episode when Michelle was still teaching at the SOTDRT she told the children, that today they we're going to learn about bankruptcy. Can you all say bankruptcy? Who knew it might come in handy one day.

[Lady Edith]

JB and MeChelle successfully raises a small army of lifetime dependents.  Those two had the benefit of a “real” education through HS and can somewhat navigate the pitfalls of the “real world”.  Nearly all of their offspring have no marketable or life skills in general to be able to survive on their own. JD is probably the most marketable with his piloting.  

IMHO this was done on purpose.  They wanted to always have control of their kids and grandkids.  JB built a fiefdom and us going to be hugely invested in keeping it going through financial controls.  No doubt about it, he has all of those kids under his thumb. Including the Duggars-in-law.  The only inlaw who has a chance of making it on his own is Jeremy (and you know how much JB loves him...).

[bigskygirl]

JD piloting skills comes from flying his family around in planes his father owns. I do not see much marketable skills in flying your family around because your father gives the orders. In order to work in the real world he would need to learn to take orders from others who is not his father or *gasp* females and others who does not share his family's values. Does he works with others or for others who do not share his family values in his construction business. How well is his construction business doing? I also bet JB has some say so in how he runs his business or who he works for. He does have some contact with others with his volunteer constable work, but he probably still has to report to JB and if JB does not like something JD gets involve in, he probably would put an end to JD being a volunteer constable. Plus the fact is JD really happy about the jobs he has because these type of jobs are Gothard approved, and he had to get approval from JB before being able to do anything. JB may "allow" JD to leave and do his own thing, but I seriously doubt JD would be totally free because daddy would still be in the background running parts of JD's life. You can take a Duggar away from the Duggars, but you cannot take the Duggar out of the child.

[Lady Edith]

I disagree on the piloting not being a marketable skill.  It’s something JD has that he can take with him outside of the Duggar fiefdom (if he so chooses).  It’s something that JD has that JB cannot take from him.  If JD were to leave today, he could find employment elsewhere, maybe as a private pilot or as a pilot for a charter company.  He has enough miles under his belt to qualify, I’m sure.  And with a little more school and training, he could go for his commercial license and really go places (pun intended).  None of the other kids have the benefit of a professional skill like this.  

[BitterApple]

Just my take, but I think out of all the Duggar kids, JD is one of the few who could find and maintain a full-time job. He has a pilot's license, CDL and heavy equipment operator's license. Those are actual skills you can put down on a job application and show proof of, rather than the ambiguous "jack of all trades" stuff the rest of the boys do for Boob. It might be a bit of an adjustment going from Duggar Time to a set schedule, but I think he could do it. Hell, if Josh managed to shlep his chubby, lazy butt to D.C. for that FRC gig, JD could definitely hack it in the real world.

[bigskygirl]

There is a different from your father owning the planes and flying your family around to flying commercial or even being a private pilot. I have heard getting a pilot license is not that hard, but you need strong math, reading, logic and people skills to do so. He would be taken orders from people who is not his father and actually need to be on time. By flying for his father and owning his own business, he is still in a way running on Duggar time instead of what people in the real world would expect of him. He is riding on his father's coattails by flying planes his father owns and doing things a Duggar male is expected to aka volunteer constable, CDL, and heavy equipment operator license. Why leave his father's backing by going out and getting a job where you are expecting to get up and get moving and following orders made by others. Maybe JD is enjoying his life the way it is now. Yes, he has been brainwashed by JB about the evil world out there, but he may feel safe and secure where he is without the brainwashing. Would I like to see a Duggar child go out on their own and succeed beyond their dreams? Of course, I would, but JD may not be one of them because he may be a little too comfortable where he is at now.

[Absolom]

36 minutes ago, Lady Edith said:

nd with a little more school and training, he could go for his commercial license and really go places (pun intended).

John David actually has a commercial license.  He isn't rated for large aircraft, but he still has progressed.

[madpsych78]

1 hour ago, Lady Edith said:

JB and MeChelle successfully raises a small army of lifetime dependents.  Those two had the benefit of a “real” education through HS and can somewhat navigate the pitfalls of the “real world”.  Nearly all of their offspring have no marketable or life skills in general to be able to survive on their own. JD is probably the most marketable with his piloting.  

IMHO this was done on purpose.  They wanted to always have control of their kids and grandkids.  JB built a fiefdom and us going to be hugely invested in keeping it going through financial controls.  No doubt about it, he has all of those kids under his thumb. Including the Duggars-in-law.  The only inlaw who has a chance of making it on his own is Jeremy (and you know how much JB loves him...).

I would add Austin with his house flipping business. I actually liked his father's guidelines for getting married (i.e., flip five houses first).

Derick SHOULD have been able to make it on his own given his educational background, but hasn't. He's the only one where I would squarely place the blame on him for ending up the way he has, rather than any parents or in-laws. I don't believe for one second that Cathy discouraged him from getting an education or developing any life skills since he obviously got a bachelor's in accounting. I do believe that Derick has become dependent purely out of his own choosing.

[bythelake]

49 minutes ago, Lady Edith said:

JB and MeChelle successfully raises a small army of lifetime dependents.  Those two had the benefit of a “real” education through HS and can somewhat navigate the pitfalls of the “real world”.  Nearly all of their offspring have no marketable or life skills in general to be able to survive on their own. JD is probably the most marketable with his piloting.  

IMHO this was done on purpose.  They wanted to always have control of their kids and grandkids.  JB built a fiefdom and us going to be hugely invested in keeping it going through financial controls.  No doubt about it, he has all of those kids under his thumb. Including the Duggars-in-law.  The only inlaw who has a chance of making it on his own is Jeremy (and you know how much JB loves him...).

Very true. With the way the family is growing, JB is going to run out of money. He already subsidizes  Josh, Jill, Jessa, and Joe. None of them would make it on their own. They have never been taught self reliance or coping skills Everything, including choosing a mate, has to be approved by Daddy, and those mates so far have not been anything to be proud of. Derick is a religious zealot, Ben cleans toilets,Kendra is a pregnant teen, and Anna lives with a pervert. 

Unless JB has set up trusts for them after his death, it will be a disaster. Anna is already homeschooling, with Jill and Jessa soon to follow. None of these girls is disciplined enough or intelligent enough to teach at home. We've all seen how well Michelle taught. (Can you spell perpendicular?)The next generation will be worse off than this one by far.

[bigskygirl]

Funny how JB and Michelle go on and on with how successful their children are, but two of their sons-in-law are more successful than their sons since they have actually been out in the real world working without clinging to their in-laws for help . The only ones who are beneath the Duggar success level are Josh and Derelict. Those two are two peas in the pod.

[mythoughtis]

I am on the side that JD will be ( and probably is already) able to financially support himself without JB. Yes, he works with and for JB a lot. However, he’s also worked with the public. Towing customers, construction customers, constable interaction, volunteer firefighter calls. He managed to get himself a property thru bartering his heavy equipment skills.  I think he does understand his family is nuts. I think he is single and childless on purpose.  I also think he has a great work ethic and probably can function in real-time as long as the Duggar clan doesn’t slow him down. 

You will note that he manages to exclude himself from a lot of Duggar trips. I think that’s his doing.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he hasn’t removed himself from the dorm.  I’d keep that a secret from the general public too in order to limit having to deal with the obsessed on his doorstep. 

I didn’t include him in my list of 3 that left the fold because I think he needs to leave the region  before I can include him. 

Edited January 14, 2018 by mythoughtis

[queenanne]

44 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

I would add Austin with his house flipping business. I actually liked his father's guidelines for getting married (i.e., flip five houses first).

Derick SHOULD have been able to make it on his own given his educational background, but hasn't. He's the only one where I would squarely place the blame on him for ending up the way he has, rather than any parents or in-laws. I don't believe for one second that Cathy discouraged him from getting an education or developing any life skills since he obviously got a bachelor's in accounting. I do believe that Derick has become dependent purely out of his own choosing.

Actually I'd blame Derick's outcome on his father's death, which I think stunted his development at that point in time.  Cathy's cancer couldn't have helped, but primarily I think his father.  I've thought this for a while now.  

ETA:  I also think John David has a good chance of functioning because he doesn't seem excitable.  He doesn't seem like he would get upset if a woman told him what to do.  I think he'd be pretty phlegmatic about it.

Edited January 14, 2018 by queenanne

[bigskygirl]

If he is able to financially support himself, he would not be flying planes his father paid for and take flights just flying family and friends around. He is a part time constable, so he probably has small amount of time being around people. How much work does he do with his towing and construction. He is not with the fire department anymore. He may have his own property, but I bet JB had a hand in it. For him to completely financially support himself, he needs to cut the apron strings. In my opinion, he is enjoying his life he got because of JB and may not want to give it up. He is riding high due to the fact he is now considered the Duggar son golden boy since Josh has seriously crashed and burned. Jeremy is more successful than he is because he is not jumping on the Duggar train. Austin is also more of a success because he flips houses without clinging to his in-laws for help.

[bigskygirl]

2 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Actually I'd blame Derick's outcome on his father's death, which I think stunted his development at that point in time.  Cathy's cancer couldn't have helped, but primarily I think his father.  I've thought this for a while now.  

ETA:  I also think John David has a good chance of functioning because he doesn't seem excitable.  He doesn't seem like he would get upset if a woman told him what to do.  I think he'd be pretty phlegmatic about it.

His dad's death did affect him, but I would not blame his poor dad dying for the way he turned out. He did seem fine until he got married, and Jill got pregnant so quickly. He was not ready for marriage and instant parenthood. Throw in having the Duggars constantly around, the molestation news, and Jill constant clinginess, and he slowly lost his marbles.

And the fact JD had his sisters go with him on fire department runs so he was not defrauded by a heathen woman says a lot. I still cannot to this day understand why the fire department would allowed that. I would not be surprised if JB is keeping a close eye on him when he is out on his constable duties in order to make sure he does not bring more embarrassment to the family name.

[mythoughtis]

The volunteer fire departments takes all comers b cause there are so few.- especially during weekdays. If the Duggar females passed the required tests and did the duties when they showed up- that’s all that was expected. The fact that they were there to watch their brother wasn’t important. Our small village fire department  members are often related. 

[bigskygirl]

I can see members being related, but to have your sisters come along to watch over you is something else. How much did the girls actually do on the calls. I cannot see the volunteer fire departments where I live allowing this. I could picture the police department officers and administration reactions if I told them I needed to have my husband or a family member come with me when I do volunteer work so no male officer or staff member defrauded me or the chance I might defraud them. Chances are my application would have been rejected.

[queenanne]

12 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

I can see members being related, but to have your sisters come along to watch over you is something else. How much did the girls actually do on the calls. I cannot see the volunteer fire departments where I live allowing this. I could picture the police department officers and administration reactions if I told them I needed to have my husband or a family member come with me when I do volunteer work so no male officer or staff member defrauded me or the chance I might defraud them. Chances are my application would have been rejected.

I feel chances are high that when TLC picks up the phone and says they'd like to noodle around a presumably low-action, quiet firehouse for 12 or so hours shooting film, a rural fire department is eager for the action and activity and says "yes" with alacrity, largely because it's "something to do"; and secondarily, because TV has got a lot of glamor and power.  

Edited January 14, 2018 by queenanne

[bigskygirl]

19 minutes ago, queenanne said:

I feel chances are high that when TLC picks up the phone and says they'd like to noodle around a presumably low-action, quiet firehouse for 12 or so hours shooting film, a rural fire department is eager for the action and activity and says "yes" with alacrity, largely because it's "something to do"; and secondarily, because TV has got a lot of glamor and power.  

I see your point of view, but I still am not picturing the majority of volunteer fire departments allowing female family members coming along on calls with their brothers in order to keep said brothers out of trouble especially when they are short staffed and people lives depend on having top notched, well trained volunteers instead of getting people who are only allowed to do so because of their families religious beliefs, or their creep of a brother was caught molesting his younger sisters more than once.

The only time they film local paid or volunteer fire departments where I live are when they are trying to recruit new members, emergency calls scenes, or funding or new equipment stories. I could picture a network like TLC coming here to film potential fire department volunteers in order to prove to people a family allows their sons and daughters to do things outside the family compound especially the girls when the hidden agenda is to make sure the boys are not being tempted by heathen females. They would be shown the door quickly.

[cmr2014]

15 hours ago, ChocolateAddict said:

Let's just look at what skills and knowledge one of the kids would need to have (or learn quickly) to break totally free. 

How to find a house or apartment - nope. They've all been living in TTH or daddy's rental properties. They have no contacts or friends who aren't part of the cult and probably wouldn't have the cash for a deposit or bond. 

How to find a job - definitely not. Most of us learnt that you walk around asking businesses or look on the internet. Then we learnt how to put together a resume and how to present ourselves in interviews. Not only to the Duggars have no qualifications (JD excluded), all their work experience has been for Duggar Industries. They've been told for years that the only acceptable employment is self employment. That's a lot to overcome just to start earning. 

How to be financially stable - probs a no on this one too. The oldest would remember what is was like living on "love offerings" but the middle and younger ones have grown up with trips to New York to be on "Good Morning America" and MacBooks. They wouldn't know how to open a bank account, balance a budget or pay taxes. 

The SOTDRT certainly didn't teach any of that. And the deliberate isolation means that they would struggle to find people to support them while they learnt. They would have to leave their family, friends and whole belief system to go. 

Since they've been on TV, they have been able to get away with filming some stuff, taking some photos and otherwise sitting on their backsides doing very little. Even though it might be miserable, the outside world with all its challenges would be petrifying and hard work. Sadly, I can't see any of them fully breaking away. 

I agree with all of this and will add a couple of things.

I had a job once where they had been encouraged to hire a number of people off of public assistance. They were all nice people and very willing, but those who had grown up in homes without working parents simply had no frame of reference for getting up every day and going to work every day. I can see that as a huge challenge for all of the Duggars. They simply have never had any structure in their lives. I think that more than a few of them would thrive with some structure, but it would be a huge adjustment for any of them.

I think they would do fine with following instruction in the workplace since Gothardism is all about submission to authority, but I doubt that the boys would be comfortable submitting to a female boss.

By their own account, they don't bathe regularly. Once again, they have no frame of reference or experience that would clue them in that bathing and grooming are important.

Any of them could break away, but time keeps passing, and none of them actually do anything. It would take a lot of determination and effort, and I just don't think it's there.

[Jenniferbug]

On 1/7/2018 at 6:53 PM, Kyanight said:

Are you sure that's wise?  Are any of Derick's friends employed?

Four years ago when Derick was an employed college graduate? Yes, I think a lot of us hoped that. Now? Of course not.

[Lady Edith]

1 hour ago, bigskygirl said:

If he is able to financially support himself, he would not be flying planes his father paid for and take flights just flying family and friends around. He is a part time constable, so he probably has small amount of time being around people. How much work does he do with his towing and construction. He is not with the fire department anymore. He may have his own property, but I bet JB had a hand in it. For him to completely financially support himself, he needs to cut the apron strings. In my opinion, he is enjoying his life he got because of JB and may not want to give it up. He is riding high due to the fact he is now considered the Duggar son golden boy since Josh has seriously crashed and burned. Jeremy is more successful than he is because he is not jumping on the Duggar train. Austin is also more of a success because he flips houses without clinging to his in-laws for help.

This is all true.  However my original point was that of all the Duggarlings and married-ins, JD has the most marketable skills.  Independent of JB and Mechelle.  If JD left today, or the money ran out, he could make a life for himself off of the compound, betweeen his piloting, heavy machinery operation, etc.  It would be a paradigm shift for him for sure, working for someone other than JB and being on a set schedule, but it would be a hellova lot easier for him to support himself than any of the others.  What skills do they have?  Jeremy is a preacher who (I’ve heard) is funded by his parents and the TLC dime.  College degrees aside, what work experience does he have outside of his plant Church?  Josh...well dude proudly displayed his GED certificate in his office and did little in the position he got because of his family’s famewhoring. He sold used cars, so maybe he could make a living in sales. Maybe.  Derp, well, we saw how his first foray into the working world went. Ben...well, he did work replacing windshields in community college, so he at least knows the routine.  The girls don’t have a chance in the world aside from being baby sitters.  And I wouldn’t trust them with any of my kids.  Ever.  Jill is the only one who did any sort of additional education and that’s not saying much at all. 

The bottom line here is, when the money dries up and the bottom falls out, I believe JD has a better chance than all of them at making a life for himself. 

[GeeGolly]

I don't think JB & M intentionally raised the Duggar 19 to be dependent on them, I just don't think they're that smart. They blindly followed a dude who actually controlled them. Gothard controlled folks in their own homes independent of being there. JB & M, the Bates and others had plenty of opportunities to question long curly hair, prairie dresses, not touching or kissing prior to marriage - none of which is in the Bible.

JB & M fell into Gothardness which allowed them to be who they wished they were without actually becoming those people. 

Of 19 kids at least a couple of them have that niggle that @Churchhoney speaks of, but it has be to combined with courage and some confidence to make the leap. Part of me thinks JD is one of them who had the niggle and him finding out the mess that Josh is propelled him forward, a direction he is moving in a very subtle way.

[Lady Edith]

The other thing, which kinda goes with what GeeGolly said...it never appeared to me that JD willingly swallowed the KookAid like the others did.  I see him more as a “go with the flow to keep the status quo” kinda guy than a KookAid guzzler. He may be a man of faith, but I don’t see him following the Gothard stream. He is doing it because it’s what he knows (and it’s a hell of a lot easier than starting from scratch).  

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, bigskygirl said:

I can see members being related, but to have your sisters come along to watch over you is something else. How much did the girls actually do on the calls. I cannot see the volunteer fire departments where I live allowing this. I could picture the police department officers and administration reactions if I told them I needed to have my husband or a family member come with me when I do volunteer work so no male officer or staff member defrauded me or the chance I might defraud them. Chances are my application would have been rejected.

I don't know. I used to cover this sector as a reporter. And my understanding was that not all, but certainly very many volunteer fire departments nationwide have been pretty desperate for warm bodies for a good 20 years now, and the situation is only getting worse. I suppose that nobody's first choice would be the Duggarling women. However, there are plenty of small things that have to get done in that job and a lot of tasks that you need two or three people to accomplish. And the Duggar girls' home life meant they were no strangers to work back in the days when they all lived in the TTH. Jana, at least, is clearly a hard worker, so I can easily seeing folks making use of her willingness and obvious sense of responsibility. And Jill always wanted to be a kind of emergency worker, albeit on the medical end, so I can see her being willing to lend a hand where she could. I'm not sure that, without having their parents present, the girls would have turned all their energies to keeping a brother from being defrauded, actually. That's an obsession with JB and M, obviously, but if there were something else to do at the time, I think most of the kids might very well forget about doing it, frankly. 

Edited January 14, 2018 by Churchhoney

[bigskygirl]

24 minutes ago, Lady Edith said:

The other thing, which kinda goes with what GeeGolly said...it never appeared to me that JD willingly swallowed the KookAid like the others did.  I see him more as a “go with the flow to keep the status quo” kinda guy than a KookAid guzzler. He may be a man of faith, but I don’t see him following the Gothard stream. He is doing it because it’s what he knows (and it’s a hell of a lot easier than starting from scratch).  

He follows the Gothard stream by picking jobs he knew would please Gothard and JB. He flies planes own by his father. He knows what his parents believe in relations to their values and religious beliefs, but he is willing to take what is offered by JB aka planes, business opportunities (yes, I think JD's business and home owning happened because daddy help him make it happen,) and the volunteer constable job. He may not willingly swallow the Kool Aid, but he is willing to take the perks from being a Duggar. I do not think the whole family would have been what they consider successful without TLC, and the fact the parents were willing to promote their 19 kids and counting.

[bigskygirl]

3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I don't know. I used to cover this sector as a reporter. And my understanding was that, not all, but certainly very many volunteer fire departments nationwide have been pretty desperate for warm bodies for a good 20 years now, and the situation is only getting worse. I suppose that nobody's first choice would be the Duggarling women. However, there are plenty of small things that have to get done in that job and a lot of tasks that you need two or three people to accomplish. And the Duggar girls' home life meant they were no strangers to work back in the days when they all lived in the TTH. Jana, at least, is clearly a hard worker, so I can easily seeing folks making use of her willingness and obvious sense of responsibility. And Jill always wanted to be a kind of emergency worker, albeit on the medical end, so I can see her being willing to lend a hand where she could.

There is a big difference from keeping an eye on your younger siblings and going on a call where someone's life and property are in serious danger. You need to keep your emotions inside yourself and keep your mind on the job instead of thinking oh man I hope we do not run into a heathen who may tempt my brother instead of thinking a person's safety and well being is in my hands, and I need to step up to the plate. Yes, the majority of volunteer fire departments have been desperate for warm bodies, but I know the departments where I live and around Montana do not want people becoming a volunteer for the absolute wrong reasons aka I am only allowed to do this because my parents want me to keep an eye on our brother and to prove to the naysayers women are allowed to this type of volunteer until they are courting, engaged, married or having kids right and left. And we have seen Jill in action as a medical worker. Obviously her skills are very lacking, so I would love to see her at an actual emergency working along side JD.

[Churchhoney]

Just now, bigskygirl said:

There is a big difference from keeping an eye on your younger siblings and going on a call where someone's life and property are in serious danger. You need to keep your emotions inside yourself and keep your mind on the job instead of thinking oh man I hope we do not run into a heathen who may tempt my brother instead of thinking a person's safety and well being is in my hands, and I need to step up to the plate. Yes, the majority of volunteer fire departments have been desperate for warm bodies, but I know the departments where I live and around Montana do not want people becoming a volunteer for the absolute wrong reasons aka I am only allowed to do this because my parents want me to keep an eye on our brother and to prove to the naysayers women are allowed to this type of volunteer until they are courting, engaged, married or having kids right and left. And we have seen Jill in action as a medical worker. Obviously her skills are very lacking, so I would love to see her at an actual emergency working along side JD.

Yeah, I completely agree that the girls wouldn't have been anybody's first choice. Or even second or third!

I do think that a fair number of departments would take them anyway, though, because unfortunately first-, second- and third-choice-level people just haven't been showing up. And I absolutely see Jana being useful in most situations, at least for some things. 

[bigskygirl]

Sad, sad world when people like the Duggars can become volunteers with fire departments because people do not have the time or commitment to become one. I personally do not think any of the Duggars would be useful in an emergency situation unless it is to call 911 and stand back situation. I know a few people who were or are volunteers with a local fire department, and I take them over the Duggars any day of the week. They are doing it for all the right reasons and because they want to help people and actually care about others and not to prove a point or because they want to please their father or a cult like leader. So glad no Duggars live in my neck of the woods.

[Lunera]

Josiah began posting on Instagram in mid August after almost 2 years of not posting. I guessing that's when he and the new girl started to get to know each other. Boob and Lauren's father probably arranged something at the ATI conference. I think by now they've already started a courtship since she was on stage with the Duggar family and they signed their named as a couple. Just in time to officially announce before the new season starts in February. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

The 911 call from Michelle, “... Mother is bleeding “...

The problem with the Duggettes being first responders is their ridiculous maxi skirts.  I’ve had to wear FRC (flame retardant clothing) whenever I went to chemical plants or to the offshore construction yard.  They’re pants.  Too much exposed skin otherwise.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Arwen Evenstar

[bigskygirl]

Where was Dr. Jill Medicine Woman at when her own sister needed her.

[Arwen Evenstar]

14 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Where was Dr. Jill Medicine Woman at when her own sister needed her.

Missioncationing 

[Lady Edith]

1 hour ago, bigskygirl said:

He follows the Gothard stream by picking jobs he knew would please Gothard and JB. He flies planes own by his father. He knows what his parents believe in relations to their values and religious beliefs, but he is willing to take what is offered by JB aka planes, business opportunities (yes, I think JD's business and home owning happened because daddy help him make it happen,) and the volunteer constable job. He may not willingly swallow the Kool Aid, but he is willing to take the perks from being a Duggar. I do not think the whole family would have been what they consider successful without TLC, and the fact the parents were willing to promote their 19 kids and counting.

Oh I have no doubts with anything you’ve said.  However I think it’s more akin to JD having it at the ready than having to go out and get it.  There is little drive with these folks and the little there is, is made possible by JB’s providing the means for them to do it.  With his own selfish wants and needs at the forefront. JB wants a fleet of planes to chauffeur his empire around.  So what does he do?  He recruits his son to become a pilot. However, what he doesn’t realize is that he has also provided said son with the ability to go forth into the world and earn on his own, which is most likely not what JB intended.  He is not going to be around forever (and neither are those planes or the money to run them).  But the skills JD learned as a pilot will go on way after all of this is gone...an unintentional consequence of JB’s using his kids to fill his own needs.

IMHO JD is the only one of the kids who is in a position to develop a professional career outside of the TTH.  And JB gave that to him. Unwittingly, but still. 

Edited January 14, 2018 by Lady Edith
Wanted to add more.

[mythoughtis]

JD wanted to fly planes. He made this fact known years ago. He took flying lessons.  Yes, he flies for Mom and Dad.  Yes that’s easier than flying for others.  However- when Mom and Dad airline folds- JD will be able to fly planes for others.  No one has said JD has given his parents the proverbial finger. What we have tried to say is that JD will be  able to financially provide for himself. And that he doesn’t  seem to be thinking he needs to be married just because Mom and Dad thinks he does. 

Also - no one has said that Jill and Jana didn’t carry  their weight on fire calls. They didn’t wear the skirts on calls- just at firehouse social or professional functions.  

I disagree with a whole lot of Duggar nonsense- but I recognize things that they are doing at least ok at. 

Edited January 14, 2018 by mythoughtis

[Arwen Evenstar]

20 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

I disagree with a whole lot of Duggar nonsense- but I recognize things that they are doing at least ok at. 

I get what you mean. I so want to give the kids credit for what they get right within the confines of how they’ve been limited.  It’s a wonder some of them can even function on any level. 

[bigskygirl]

I would not say Jill and Jana doing things right when it comes to emergency medical care. Jill is willing to put herself and her unborn baby at risk while she was in labor. Jana may do half way decent taking care of her younger siblings and running the house, but it takes a lot more skill to respond to an emergency call when someone's well being and safety is the number one priority. I do not believe she really wanted to be a volunteer since JB and Michelle probably picked Jana and used Jill wanting to go in the medical field spiel as the number one reason why they were chosen to keep an eye on JD. Wearing skirts has nothing to do with it. The main goal is to be mentally and physically able to work as part of a team to serve and protect others and property not oh no JD might be too tempted to run off with a woman who was not chosen by daddy.

If JD wants to fly planes for others, he would be working to do so. His daddy's money is the main reason why he is flying today. Without TLC and his parents being major famewhores, his flying days would not have happened. I do not see am flying planes for others because why go out and face the real world when daddy is taking care of his career interests at home. It is a win-win situation for JB and JD.

[PikaScrewChu]

26 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

JD wanted to fly planes. He made this fact known years ago. He took flying lessons.  Yes, he flies for Mom and Dad.  Yes that’s easier than flying for others.  However- when Mom and Dad airline folds- JD will be able to fly planes for others.  No one has said JD has given his parents the proverbial finger. What we have tried to say is that JD will be  able to financially provide for himself. And that he doesn’t  seem to be thinking he needs to be married just because Mom and Dad thinks he does.

I dated a pilot who worked for one of the major airlines in another life. I have no idea what training JD went through to get his license. I know there's several ways to go about it and I suspect the Duggars went the way which costs $$$$ but you get your license in no time.

JD has probably logged enough hours to be marketable for one of the carriers with their smaller charters. He would be able to work his way up to the bigger planes (if he so chose). We cannot say definitively whether he will eventually chase that possibility. But he is set up to be hired versus John Doe who just completed flight school.

I would not be surprised if the money starts drying up to maintain the planes, etc. that JD does seek a job with one of the commercial airlines. Mostly because the Duggars like freebies and free* flights with the family discount are right up their alley.

*not entirely free but substantially less than what the rest of us pay.

[bigskygirl]

UGH!!! JD flying commercial flights. Scary stuff!!! Knowing JB would "want" to JD to fly commercial flights because it would benefit him and the rest of the family, plus proof a Duggar son is a major success without college or post high school education. Like I said a win-win for JB and JD. JimBobCheap probably would send out Jana and a few of the younger girls to be trained as flight attendants to keep an eye on JD because of the friendly skies aka the heathen female hussy flight attendants and passengers.

Edited January 14, 2018 by bigskygirl

[Arwen Evenstar]

36 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

 

I would not say Jill and Jana doing things right when it comes to emergency medical care. Jill is willing to put herself and her unborn baby at risk while she was in labor. Jana may do half way decent taking care of her younger siblings and running the house, but it takes a lot more skill to respond to an emergency call when someone's well being and safety is the number one priority. I do not believe she really wanted to be a volunteer since JB and Michelle probably picked Jana and used Jill wanting to go in the medical field spiel as the number one reason why they were chosen to keep an eye on JD. Wearing skirts has nothing to do with it. The main goal is to be mentally and physically able to work as part of a team to serve and protect others and property not oh no JD might be too tempted to run off with a woman who was not chosen by daddy.

 

1st bolded: I cannot disagree. The “something right” they are capable of doesn’t include medical, first aid, or use of medical things

2nd bolded:  Wearing skirts isn’t an encumbrance to be an EMT. However it is an encumbrance if one is actually firefighting.  It’s downight dangerous.  One thing if it’s a small kitchen or rubbish bin fire indoors, but whenever there is wind, it can come right at you.  If Jana was keeping her training to EMT, then no big deal.  If I wanted to wear a skirt and flip flops to a chemical plant, they wouldn’t let me in the gate. You might have to make an evacuation if there’s a release or fire.  Even if you are only in the front office, you may not be able to even turn on your car if you are required to shelter in place. They don’t want people twisting their ankles or falling down stairs.  Muster points are not always in the buildings, and depending on which way the wind is blowing, the closest point is not always the safest. Recordable injuries are a HUGE deal.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Arwen Evenstar

[Arwen Evenstar]

P.S. When you are in Louisiana, you might hear the muster point be referred to as “the mustard area”.  God bless the Cajuns.

[GeeGolly]

I think we can all (or most) agree that in an emergency we wouldn't want a Duggar as a first responder. However if that Duggar arrived at a fire with a fire truck when there was no other I wouldn't turn them away. Jill or Jana as an EMT responding to me?? Only if I was conscious and they had an ambulance so I could make sure they weren't harming me on the ride to the hospital.

Jana tends to panic a little and I prefer Jill keep her medical thingies to herself.

[bigskygirl]

I have noticed EMTs wear little clothing when they arrive on medical calls. I am not saying going in butt naked, but I am sure they want to be comfortable in the least amount of clothing in order to move quickly and access the medical needs of the patient in the best way. A nice shirt, pants/slacks with pockets where you can wear certain medical equipment like scissors or pocket knives, shoes/boots and socks. Of course, jackets and good weather gear is important. They also wear a traffic control vest when out because it can help drivers see emergency personnel better. Like you said wear a skirt and flip flops to a medical call or fire would not go over big. I wear a police department polo shirt and a pair of black pants which is considered my police department volunteer uniform (polo shirt is considered my badge *whohoo*) I cannot picture the girls going in wearing a skirt or flip flops to a medical call because as I say it would be too uncomfortable and would get in the way. Of course in the Duggar way of thinking they cannot let the girls defraud some poor male heathen patient.

[Fuzzysox]

This little gem popped up on my Google feed. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/CountingOn/comments/7q4ri3/heres_a_photo_someone_snapped_of_the_duggars/

(can you guys see the comments?)

Lauren at the TTH for New Years.

[GeeGolly]

Jackson is 13. I hope JD & Jana make it out of the Lonely Js Club either my marriage or moving out, before Jackson becomes a lonely J.