The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[GEML]

I don't agree they are prisoners. I've known plenty of young men and women who have left far worse conditions (without as much exposure to the outside world, or with actual family who wasn't that type of believer) with far fewer skills. People who leave the Amish, for instance.

I think Jana stays because she wants to. But that doesn't mean she's a happy and pleasant person, even if she did leave or was given Michelle and JB's blessing to seek whatever life she wished. She may simply be a person who sees the negative side of life no matter what. That she happens to be attractive and in a fundamentalist home makes it easy to think it's been externally imposed, when it may simply be her own natural personality.

[trimthatfat]

I don't agree they are prisoners. I've known plenty of young men and women who have left far worse conditions (without as much exposure to the outside world, or with actual family who wasn't that type of believer) with far fewer skills. People who leave the Amish, for instance.

I think Jana stays because she wants to. But that doesn't mean she's a happy and pleasant person, even if she did leave or was given Michelle and JB's blessing to seek whatever life she wished. She may simply be a person who sees the negative side of life no matter what. That she happens to be attractive and in a fundamentalist home makes it easy to think it's been externally imposed, when it may simply be her own natural personality.

I agree completely. I think calling Jana a 'prisoner' is quite unfair to her and those who endure legitimately harsh conditions and those who have been legitimately and wrongfully imprisoned and enslaved. That is why I mentioned previously that I think a certain narrative is being created for Jana that may not be accurate.

 

And honestly, it would not be easy for the Duggars to shun Jana. Not at all. I also don't think they would if it came down to it. I maintain that if Jana wants a different life, she could have it.

[DoctorWhovian]

That girl was ruled by her crotch too, but hid it well in front of her parents and the world...she proved it by licking his fingers at the wedding reception. If I were her parents, I would have been embarrassed by that.

 

That comment makes me wonder how much the unmarried (and even married) Duggars know about "secular" sex. And if so, how do they find out. Or even what they know about puberty before they start to exhibit signs themselves. Would it be similar to Carrie? I'd imagine any sex advice book they get from their parents is very PIV, missionary, do it to have children kind of advice. Not so much the foreplay and various.. techniques (? trying to keep it appropriate) that one may use.

 

There's somewhat of a trope regarding the more "oppressed" seeming couples having crazy sex lives at home, but I can't imagine the Duggars, outside of regular interactions, doing anything all that out there, but rather it being very clinical. If you read into the "finger licking" as an allude to a particular sex act, then there may be more to it? But it would be interesting more how, for example, the girls gossip about this kind of thing to each other. In any normal family, you'd expect kids to "research", at least on their own. But the lack of privacy in this house, and lack to outside knowledge, is probably quite stifling. Jill may have an advantage in dating a college boy.

[GEML]

Having grown up deep in Fundy land, I think Jim Bob and Michelle are naive if they think their children are only hearing about sex from them. I'm willing to bet the Duggar children have heard and discussed plenty with other Fundies, including recently married friends. Jill was a fairly well educated midwife trainee - there was access to info.

Secular parents are always shocked by what their children know. Religious parents aren't any different. All it takes is one or two with access to pass that info along. And I grew up long before the internet and with little exposure to movies and "explcit" TV. (Example - just the title THE FACTS OF LIFE was enough to get it banned in my house.). But wow, I wasn't clueless.

[kassygreene]

When I was in college (mid-70s) at a state uni, there were a few educational books passed around the dorm.  The first was The Flame and the Flower, followed by The Wolf and the Dove.  Not exactly the best takes on the subject, but those books had heat.

 

I would never have taken them home, and there is no fundy in my background.

[floridamom]

I don't know where or when these kids would have the opportunity to discuss the mechanics of sex as they are never one on one? If you notice, the Duggar girls have never paired up with the Bates girls, for example, and there is always another Duggar sister with them..I can't imagine any of them would take the chance to bring something like that up. I am still surprised at Jill licking Derick's fingers...why would she do something inappropriate like that in front of family and friends on church property no less? Then there is a flaw in the "accountability system".

[mimionthebeach]

I think Jana fell for someone, and he wasn't approved by Jim Bob. Remember the show when the girls were asked if anyone courting, and all eyes turned towards Jana? I think that since she couldn't have who she wanted, she has decided she will not have any one at all.

That's my feeling too. Since about the time of that interview, There's been a sadness to Jana that want as obvious before. It also occurred to me that Boob may have since offered up a few JD- type duds whom she has rejected.

[Mrsjumbo]

I think the Duggar kids probably got more of a sex education than I did. I saw my parents kiss exactly once in all their years of marriage, they had seperate bedrooms, & my mom never had a puberty talk or birds & bees talk. She did sign the paper that I could watch the filmstrip & get the pamphlet in 6th grade about "changing bodies". There was never any sex talk with my sisters. Thank God I could read novels!

The Duggar kids have seen their mom pregnant multiple times, so I can only imagine there must have been some talk about how she got that way. And JBoob & Mechelle are very *demonstrative* in their kissing in public. ((Shudder))

[GEML]

They would be permitted to be around married friends - who would have the MOST information actually. I don't know if anyone watched 90 DAY FIANCÉ, but if you did remember the couple Amy marrying Danny? They were also not doing more than a quick kiss and EVERYONE around them was obsessed about sex.

Now, the Duggar world won't be so blatant about it, but they are clearly obsessed. There are books given to soon to be married couples. They know far more than a lot of secular people think.

[Barb23]

I think the Duggar kids probably got more of a sex education than I did. I saw my parents kiss exactly once in all their years of marriage, they had seperate bedrooms, & my mom never had a puberty talk or birds & bees talk. She did sign the paper that I could watch the filmstrip & get the pamphlet in 6th grade about "changing bodies". There was never any sex talk with my sisters. Thank God I could read novels!

The Duggar kids have seen their mom pregnant multiple times, so I can only imagine there must have been some talk about how she got that way. And JBoob & Mechelle are very *demonstrative* in their kissing in public. ((Shudder))

Mrs Jumbo- are you my long lost sister? This was the way in my house also. Lol. For some reason, I didn't even make the Puberty meeting at school. Even with an older sister, when my period first started, I was scared to even tell my mother & then got just the basics of what was happening. (Even though I already knew.) As you said, thank God for books as I do remember my friend & I checking out the World Book Encyclopedia at school. There were also Judy Blume's books, "Are you there God, it's me Margaret" & "Forever" that were passed around at school.

Sorry, didn't mean to get off topic, but I agree the Duggar kids know more than we think.

[Jamiesmum]

Hi there. I am new to this forum, and it has been great to find like minded people when it comes to the Duggars.

I think that Jana is being very smart. She has no current babies to tend to at home. There are fewer people in the girls bedroom. The younger girls are becoming old enough to start doing the bigger chores, sorry, jurisdictions. Most of the howlers are old enough to be ignored. Her work load is actually getting lighter. And except for making bridesmaids dresses, she can successfully fade into the background. Not that she has ever really been upfront in the storylines, but she can now drop further back as others grab more of the limelight.

She reminds me of a family friend who is the eldest of five daughters. The family is not fundie, but her parents are from the "old country", even though they grew up here, and on some things have old country ways. She is the quietest (and smartest) of the lot. She let her sisters get their drivers licenses first, so they would be the family taxis. She resisted her mother pushing her into teaching by changing here degree from Arts to Art/Law, then to Law ( this is in Australia). And she also managed to marry the man she wanted, turning away her parents suggestions along the way. She knew her family well enough to be able to get what she wanted without causing great conflict, and in fact her mother now thinks it was her idea to change to Law! Little bit of persuasion needed re the husband, but a quick shrug of the shoulder and mention of moving 1000km to be near his family, and all was forgiven.

As all the others get on, get older and move out, Jana will have more time and space for herself. JB and M will not want to make a big issue of the one that won't move on, as that would not reflect well on them. And even if Jana does not escape, she could still have a good life and not have to bring up another family and be under another man's power. At least she knows what she has with JB and M.

Edited February 4, 2015 by fiveredandblack

[DoctorWhovian]

Being obsessed with sex in the Duggar way is very different than being obsessed in a more secular (?) way. I'm talking more, they know how babies are made but do they know the various ways sex can be fun outside of procreation. I remember in 6th grade asking a friend what a boner was (despite knowing what an erection was). So i'm more curious how much they know of the non-vanilla aspects of sex. Do they do more than try to make a baby, etc. And I doubt those are the acts/positions/whatever that the parent-approved pamphlets and books go into. Then again, there could be a fundie-underground-railroad of Fifty Shades for all we know (which doesn't speak well to their ability to be in healthy relationships but at least it's something!).

[GEML]

Again, speaking as a former Fundy, I wasn't naive on my wedding night. For one thing, good sex within a marriage is thought to keep a marriage healthy. Second, you can't stop teenagers from talking. You just can't.

[floridamom]

If these teenagers have no exposure to sex information, and also have no privacy in social visits, how can they learn about that subject? Perhaps the mechanics of conception is one thing, but how does Jill know that "licking derickdillard's fingers" is a sex-like thing to do in foreplay? They once again, don't add up to me.

[DoctorWhovian]

If these teenagers have no exposure to sex information, and also have no privacy in social visits, how can they learn about that subject? Perhaps the mechanics of conception is one thing, but how does Jill know that "licking derickdillard's fingers" is a sex-like thing to do in foreplay? They once again, don't add up to me.

 

We are on the same page! Not saying they can't have learned it or don't talk about it, but more curious how/what/to what extent they may learn about the non-procreation side of sex. There are a few sexual encounters that I recall of mine where I came across something for the first time, and I wonder if someone of their background would even notice these things, or even know to notice them, or know to ask "hey try this" or "i like this, not that" or "I heard this was fun" etc. Or does it even matter because babies are #1 priority.

[GEML]

Sigh. Ok. Just believe the Duggar parents when they say they can successfully isolate their children. Hey - THEY like every other parent of teenagers want to think that's true.

But you are being snowballed by a bunch of rubes.

[CarolMK]

I have a strong feeling that Jana will wait until the show is canceled before she marries. She doesn't strike me as wanting to have her courtship and wedding televised for the whole world to see and I don't think that Jim Bob and Michelle would want her to keep it private. So, maybe she'll marry by the time she's around 30-32 to a man her dad picks out but is secretly fundy-lite, and moves across the country and has limited contact with her parents after that. She might be close to some of her littler siblings, but somehow I don't see her having sleepovers the way Jill and Derrick do. Actually, I'm not sure if even Jessa and Ben have her siblings sleep over, either. 

[Temperance]

Sigh. Ok. Just believe the Duggar parents when they say they can successfully isolate their children. Hey - THEY like every other parent of teenagers want to think that's true.

But you are being snowballed by a bunch of rubes.

 

What people know or don't know about sex is hard to say in cultures where that's not really talked about. I have to say I was supposedly well-educated about sex, although I was raised it was for marriage, but there is/was a lot I didn't know. I was missing some crucial information which I found reading books later in my twenties.

Three things

1) yes teenagers and young adults talk, but they don't necessarily pass on reliable information and they lack an understanding of how different people experience sex differently. I can think of several things that may true for one person versus another or times people told me stuff that's not true.

2) Different religions and religious individuals are better at explaining sex or portray sex in marriage as a good thing. Not all religious people become comfortable talking about sex after marriage. Some are definitely. Some aren't. I've known both kinds.

Many of the people I know will tell you it's wonderful and glow about it, but then tell you, you'll figure it out (with your spouse) once you get married.  (This seems particularly like advice given to young women.)

3) If you've been your whole life that sex is bad outside of marriage and then it's only for procreation, you may be freaked out hearing about it. It's also possible that you'll start self-censoring. I have a friend who does that. The minute sex is mentioned she either changes the subject or goes away. Her fundie-lite parents are so proud. 

Anna seems the most likely source for Jana, and I have no idea what she [Jana] knows or doesn't know. Michelle doesn't seem like she's capable of handling a sex-ed discussion. I think it's a reasonable topic post considering the avenues most of us have to find out about sex are either shut down or restricted. They do have the internet although if that isn't a source of misinformation I don't what is. 

Edited February 7, 2015 by Temperance

[GEML]

Ok, once again with feeling. Anna wouldn't be the main source of information because she's too close. Keep in mind that Fundy relationships are porous. They come and go. You always have people who have really, from a religious standpoint, sinful pasts coming into them looking for peace and absolution. People who are capable of going into detail in their testimonies about their pasts. People who did far more than Michelle with her On my way! the lawn with a bikini top. There's a saying, "You aren't confessing, you're bragging." But children hear the stories and get a LOT of info.

There are a ton of ways to get info in a Fundy world. It's obsessed with sex, remember. We watched every single Duggar child practically pant his/her way to the altar - so we know that physically they are healthy young animals. Good sex makes for good marriages is part of their code. They don't want their daughters to lie back and think of England - and if you look at both the guys and girls after they married they look, well, happy and relaxed, not only the Duggars but the married Bates kids too. Sure, some of them could be trained for the camera, but all of them? That's a stretch.

Right now the only strained sexual relationship seems to be Josh and Anna, because it's pretty clear Josh doesn't want more children and he hasn't yet figured out how to manage this desire given his upbringing and marriage vows with a wife who does. But for years, they had a pretty healthy relationship on camera too. It's not all just missionary positions and fertilization.

[frenchtoast]

Folks, can we bring this back around to Jana, please?

[flyingdi]

Watched a rerun yesterday and I have a question. Is Jana the only one with visits to Journey To The Heart, or did all the girls go? It seems I only ever hear about Jana going.

[Jellybeans]

Did I hear about something happening to Jana at Journeys to the Heart?

[floridamom]

I also recall only Jana going to that indoctrination camp...I guess she had to completely have the "spunk beat out of her"....

[Absolom]

Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Joy have all been to Journey to the Heart.

[GEML]

I think all the girls have done it, but Jana is the only one who went back as a leader. But to be honest, I'm not sure where I came to know this.

We have no knowledge that anything happened to Jana. But we know that some ugly things happened to some Gothard girls at that facility, and Jana, and more likely, Anna's sister Priscilla, fit into the time frame when these things were happening.

[Jellybeans]

We have no knowledge that anything happened to Jana. But we know that some ugly things happened to some Gothard girls at that facility, and Jana, and more likely, Anna's sister Priscilla, fit into the time frame when these things were happening.

Did Jana change at all after visiting this place?

[BitterApple]

It's odd that Jana's personality did a complete 360 shortly after she started attending and leading JTTH seminars. From what I've read from former Gothard Fundies, he had a very specific physical type that he liked to target and select to come work as "secretaries" at his headquarters. Both Priscilla and Jana are blonde, attractive, vulnerable; it just makes you wonder....

[Jellybeans]

If Jana was abused there, wouldn't she have told her parents? What would be their reaction, you think?

Edited February 7, 2015 by Jellybeans

[BitterApple]

If Jana was abused there, wouldn't she have told her parents? What would be their reaction, you think?

I can't speak for Fundies, but my 90 year-old Grandmother was a devout Catholic her entire life and considered the Church's sex abuse scandal a "misunderstanding."

 

It could just be a coincidence and Jana's personality change is due to the fact that she's fed up and frustrated with being an unpaid nanny/cook/maid, but given how spaced-out Priscilla is, I can't help but speculate.

[Jellybeans]

Interesting. I know it will never happen but I wish Jana would talk about it. Do they discourage others from going there?

[RazzleberryPie]

If Jana was abused there, wouldn't she have told her parents? What would be their reaction, you think?

Most likely, the reaction would be 'your mistaken' or 'what did you do to encourage/entice that behavior from a godly man?'

[cmr2014]

I think you're right RazzleberryPie. If you search on-line you can find the "counseling guide" that Gothard has created for victims of abuse. The gist of it -- as I recall -- is that abuse is the fault of the victim for encouraging the abuser and not having enough faith in Jesus.

 

I think that the Duggar parents are suffering from cognitive dissonance regarding the Gothard sexual abuse claims. Part of the reason that they joined this cult was the idea that following these rules would keep them safe. As long as they obeyed Gothard they, and their family, would be safe from all of the dangers of the modern world. They may know about the sexual abuse claims, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have spun their own story about what happened that has no resemblance to fact.

 

My guess is that few -- if any -- of these girls will receive any support from their family. I hope Jana wasn't one of the girls because JB and J'chelle are not the sort of parents who are going to support her.

 

ETA: Here is a link to the "Counseling Sex Abuse" worksheet that is posted on RecoveringGrace:

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/04/how-counseling-sexual-abuse-blames-and-shames-survivors/

Edited February 8, 2015 by cmr2014

[GEML]

I do think that Jana's personality changed somewhat, but I think that a lot of people's personalities change in the years between 16-25. That doesn't mean they have been the victims of anything. Jana does strike me as less happy than she once was, but I've posted extensively that this is just as likely to be an internal personality issue as it is externally cause. Some people simply are less positive and happy people than others. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them or anything happened to them to make them that way.

And in all honesty, the happiest I've seen Jana is when she was attending Journey to the Heart as a counselor.

That said, I would have no confidence in the Duggars senior to protector if something had happened. I'm not saying they would blame or accuse her, but I do think they would almost certainly " encourage" her to put this "behind" her and focus on the " special attention" that someone as "wondeful" as Gothard showed her. In other words, they would invalidate her experience by insisting it was positive, not negative.

I'm sorry to say I've personally seen that happen in other cases.

[ChocolateAddict]

I think it can be a bit dangerous to speculate about Jana being sexually abused.  Even though her time in Journey of the Heart overlaps with the abuse claims, like GEML said, there are plenty of reasons why she could have changed.  Maybe she became she realized that she has a life of child raising in front of her, between raising her siblings and then her own children.  Maybe it was the hormones and the typical adolescent mood changes.  Maybe she was abused but the speculating doesn't sit well with me when it comes to the sexual abuse of minors.  

Although I do agree that JB and M would be completely useless in situations where abuse allegations were made.  Those people can't even recognize the damage they are doing to their own children, they couldn't comprehend the trauma of abuse or even the difficulties of mental illness. 

[Sew Sumi]

Interesting. I know it will never happen but I wish Jana would talk about it. Do they discourage others from going there?

I don't think any of the girls who are of age have returned to JTTH since the Gothard scandal broke (Valentines' Day last year). That said, Josiah was at ALERT and remained there for most of the year, and Boob/MEchelle did not back out of their speaking gigs at all three conferences (Big Sandy, Nashville, Sacramento). 

 

Believe it or not, I am going to actually credit Boob for not sending them back. He has been caught sidestepping the Gothard scandal questions, but none of his daughters have done anything IBLP-related aside from attending/speaking at conferences that Gothard no longer attended. Point being, Boob hasn't sent them off to JTTH or missions like he used to. He knows, but he sure as hell won't admit that he was taken in by a total charlatan. 

[mbutterfly]

I think you're right RazzleberryPie. If you search on-line you can find the "counseling guide" that Gothard has created for victims of abuse. The gist of it -- as I recall -- is that abuse is the fault of the victim for encouraging the abuser and not having enough faith in Jesus.

 

I think that the Duggar parents are suffering from cognitive dissonance regarding the Gothard sexual abuse claims. Part of the reason that they joined this cult was the idea that following these rules would keep them safe. As long as they obeyed Gothard they, and their family, would be safe from all of the dangers of the modern world. They may know about the sexual abuse claims, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have spun their own story about what happened that has no resemblance to fact.

 

My guess is that few -- if any -- of these girls will receive any support from their family. I hope Jana wasn't one of the girls because JB and J'chelle are not the sort of parents who are going to support her.

 

ETA: Here is a link to the "Counseling Sex Abuse" worksheet that is posted on RecoveringGrace:

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/04/how-counseling-sexual-abuse-blames-and-shames-survivors/

Thank you. That is one of the worst documents I have ever read. Unbelievable what emotional needs would make this world view attractive.

[Jellybeans]

Thanks everyone for your input on Jana. I have only watched one partial season of the Duggar Show.

[3girlsforus]

ETA: Here is a link to the "Counseling Sex Abuse" worksheet that is posted on RecoveringGrace:

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/04/how-counseling-sexual-abuse-blames-and-shames-survivors/

 

I am physically ill at the thought of victims of sexual abuse being "counseled" by someone who believes this crap. 

 

 

Edited to add.... I guess teachings like this, that the victim of sexual abuse is at fault, makes sense in the Gothard world. Since Gothard is a sex abuser it stands to reason that he would teach that it wasn't his fault.

 

I certainly hope Jana and the other Duggar girls were not subjected to any of this horrible stuff. Feeling ill for those poor girls who were.

Edited February 8, 2015 by 3girlsforus

[RazzleberryPie]

I do think Jimbob is an idiot 90% of the time, but if Jana or another child was sexually abused, he'd sever ties with the group. I don't know if he'd 'out' them, but I don't think he'd allow the abuse to continue. 

[GEML]

It's an interesting data point that Jim Bob was never one of the Gothard power brokers. He's always been on the fringes of power - Gil Bates is on the Board of Directors and Anna's sister Priscilla is married to David Walker, who handles a lot of the day to day responsibilities, and Priscilla once worked at the HQ. But JB never quite made it into the inner circle. That might be because of the TV show - it is true that the show brought a lot of attention (much unwanted) to the group. But it might also be that he simply never fully submitted in some way to some aspect within the group. That might have included protecting his own daughters. We will never know. But if we are speculating, it seems only fair to put all possibilities on the table.

[Darknight]

Gothard had a crappy childhood.

[Absolom]

It could be that Jim Bob is too goofy or simply comes across as an uneducated hick.  For all Gothard's restrictions on education, most of the board has some and the ability to at least act polished.  

 

I think Jana actually enjoyed her "vacations" at JTTH.  She seems to find ways to escape her home life that are acceptable to her parents.  I don't think she'd have gone back if anything untoward had happened to her.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Absolom

[cmr2014]

I respectfully disagree, Absolom. I don't want to go down the road of speculating that a particular person was or was not abused, but this sort of thing is much more complicated than that.

 

The abuse itself is confusing. These girls were raised to revere Gothard, and being a "favorite" is flattering both to the girl and to her family. The abuse, as I understand it, was not overtly sexual. There was inappropriate touching of hair, and legs, leering, and literal games of "footsie." I think it would be very difficult for any of these girls to explain to their parents other than "he makes me feel uncomfortable."

 

Gothard also teaches that women are at fault in the case of abuse. Many of these girls may have wondered what they did wrong to elicit this type of response from a revered, holy man. 

 

Again, I don't want to speculate about Jana in particular. She seems to have enjoyed her time at JTTH, and she seems to enjoy her time in DC. Even though these don't seem like they would be a lot of fun to me, they are clearly an opportunity for her to get away from home and have some level of autonomy.

[Jamiesmum]

I am still catching up on older episodes, and what has come through is that Jana is a very accomplished woman. She takes on what she is given and does a credible job. For example, when the Duggars were "helping" the Bates extend their home, Jana was tiling bathrooms, and cutting tiles to size herself. When JB bought a new bus and John David and Joseph were away, Jana got behind the wheel and JB could find no fault in her driving, even though he stood beside her giving helpful hints. She is calm in a child crisis, picking up and soothing the child, while M is pushed to the background. And of course we know she can cook, sew, clean, wash and parent better than either JB or M.

She is not as pushy as Jill or as flashy as flashy as Jessa, but in the background, she always seems to be watching everything and taking stock of what is going on. I don't think much gets past her.

I do believe that JB has some inkling of how valuable she is to the family. In an episode while they were all in Little Rock while Josie was still in hospital, she asked JB if she could go on a mission to Asia for 2 months. The look on her face said that she did not know what the answer would be. JB said yes but only if John David went with her, couldn't let a female go by herself. It was getting towards the time Josie would be let out and I just got the feeling that this was a reward for what she had been doing while they were in LR. Her anticipation and then happiness were lovely to see and real.

While I don't think she will be, or even wants to be a publicity seeker like so many others in her family, it would be lovely to see her in her own business, whatever that may be. She has so many convertible skills as well as the example set by her Grandmother. But this would not be the Duggar way for a girl. Car yards, towing, flying, building maintenance etc are great jobs for the boys. But I can never see JB setting Jana, or any of the girls, up with their own business. No matter how good that would be at it. And the girls would never even think to ask for that kind of help. They know their places. So sad.

[GEML]

I think you are right, that Jana does things extremely well. What is interesting is how little joy she takes in them. Where I have seen her truly engaged is in travel - and mostly travel without her entire family, although she seems to enjoying being part of a smaller subset.

[Lillybee]

I think that if Jana is turning down, the suitors that JB chooses for her it is because she doesn't want a husband that will be submissive to Boob. I don't think that she wants her very own BinBob.

[CarolMK]

 I have to wonder if the reason Jana hasn't shown interest in marrying yet is that she's too attached to the kids, especially the four younger girls. She has probably done more to raise them than anyone else in the family and leaving them might be too difficult for her. Especially Josie. I have the feeling Michelle doesn't give Josie all the attention and care than she needs and leaves it largely up to Jana to do so. 

[Barb23]

I have to wonder if the reason Jana hasn't shown interest in marrying yet is that she's too attached to the kids, especially the four younger girls. She has probably done more to raise them than anyone else in the family and leaving them might be too difficult for her. Especially Josie. I have the feeling Michelle doesn't give Josie all the attention and care than she needs and leaves it largely up to Jana to do so.

I disagree about Josie. Josie, out of all the kids, is the one MEchelle does gives her attention to. Granted the child needs more outside help & therapy but she is the one that is carried around like a princess.

[graefin]

I disagree about Josie. Josie, out of all the kids, is the one MEchelle does gives her attention to. Granted the child needs more outside help & therapy but she is the one that is carried around like a princess.

Michelle only does that when the cameras are on her. Otherwise, her real mom is taking care of her. I remember one episode where Jana was going away, and asks Josie, with tears in her eyes, whether she will miss her.

[WTFFF]

Michelle gives "attention" to Josie by carrying her and talking to her like a dog.  I suspect Jana does all the meaningful interactions.

 

I wonder if Josie sleeps in Jana's bed like Jackson used to.