S03.E05: Episode 5

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

While George makes political maneuvers at home, Ross sails to France to rescue Dwight from the French Revolution.

[Jacks-Son]

R.I.P. Captain William Henshawe. He died, the way he would have wanted to: a Hero

What an outstanding episode. I really don't care if this is how it transpired in the books or in P75. It's an adaption of Winston Graham's work in P2015 as written and produced by Debbie Horsfield and it was glorious. Ross was once again, the goes-against-the-grain hero, while "wittle, tiny, baby" George Warleggan was on the losing end. I was even sort of laughing with that fool, Reverend Osborne Whitworth's expression, when he heard George's disapproval of Ross and announced he would not be voting for Ross. It was like,"Oh, man, are you ever going to be disappointed."

Loved Aunt Agatha throwing shade at George and George finding out that TPTB wanted Ross and not him. I wish I was in the scene, so that I could laugh in George's Face. Even Elizabeth showed her disappointment with George at the party and Demelza actually asked George when would he grow up. It must have been particularly galling to have a "Kitchen Maid" put George in his place.

Drake stepped up and maybe even proved that he's a better man than what the Gentry thinks of him.

Loved Aunt Agatha's advice to Morwenna that if she truly loved Drake, she shouldn't put Drake in George's cruel sight.

I generally liked everything about this episode.

A moment of silence for Captain William Henshawe......

@SilverStormm: Thank you for moving this to the proper thread.

Edited July 10, 2017 by Jacks-Son

[Clawdette]

This was a fine hour of television. Beautifully filmed and acted and thoroughly heartbreaking.  Tears - many tears.

[Glade]

The newcomer Armitage really cleaned up well for the funeral--Demelza was right (and sweet) to be so generous with her hugs at the landing!  This was a great episode, however the 'next time on Poldark' previews are really killing my joy--last week's made me fear for Drake's life, and now they've done it again! 

[nodorothyparker]

This was a pretty fine episode overall.  The one thing that would have made it better would have been enough lighting to be able to see all of it, but scenes shot in inky blackness seem to be the thing in television now.

It's clear the show really doesn't have any idea what to do with George except have him obsess obsess obsess over Ross and then obsess some more over whatever he's up to at the moment.  Sure, that's a big chunk of his story, but he's turning into a ridiculous caricature.  His gossipy shouted "whispering" against Ross within earshot of the nobles he was trying to impress was just painful to watch, although I can certainly appreciate his utter frustration over how Ross always seems to fall ass backward into good fortune or opinion just in time to save the day after yet another one of his plans has gone horribly awry while George is trying so desperately to claw his way up the ladder.  Even Elizabeth was able to rouse herself enough to acknowledge how gauchely new money he was coming across.

I love the entire story of the rescue in the books and this did not disappoint.  The depiction of Ross's internal conflict over getting a man killed and how risky the entire endeavor really was was a little discordant and jarring on first watch but on repeat viewing, I think it worked.   As with his drunken bingy gambling at George's house party from hell in the first season, we get to see that Ross isn't always completely oblivious to the cost of his sometimes rash and reckless behavior.  Aiden Turner did a really nice job with those scenes in letting us feel how much being responsible for so much and so many people must weigh on him.

Any thoughts in the direction of Hugh Armitage will have to go to the book thread.

[Jacks-Son]

33 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

His gossipy shouted "whispering" against Ross within earshot of the nobles he was trying to impress was just painful to watch, although I can certainly appreciate his utter frustration over how Ross always seems to fall ass backward into good fortune or opinion just in time to save the day after yet another one of his plans has gone horribly awry while George is trying so desperately to claw his way up the ladder.  Even Elizabeth was able to rouse herself enough to acknowledge how gauchely new money he was coming across.

So much of this! They may be overdoing the George desperation, but I love it anyway. The man takes so much pleasure in others' pain that he deserves some derision. I loved the scene at the Ball where George was standing all alone after Armitage's Uncle walked away. George doesn't need any enemies, he is is own worst enemy.  I also loved the scene when Cudgel broke into the small dinner and made his announcement. Everyone turned to look at George, and he grew smaller by their looks.

If someone can tell me what Cudgel said about Ross' success on the mission, I would appreciate it. I couldn't make out the words. George tried to twist what Cudgel said into a failure of Ross' losing the life of one while saving another and 20 other prisoners escaping. George just doesn't understand how Ross inspires his people. I eagerly await Armitage's Uncle's confrontation with George. The look on George's face as he heard Elizabeth's confirmation of the importance of saving Hugh Armitage's life was priceless. 

[NumberCruncher]

Yeah, count me in as someone who enjoys the weekly stank-face we get from as George whenever he doesn't get exactly what he wants.  I'm completely aware that book George isn't nearly as villainous as TV George but I'm fine with it because Farthing plays it with such relish that I can forgive the inconsistency.

@Jacks-Son - he told George that the mission resulted in one injury and one death and George used that as evidence that the mission was a failure because even by saving Dwight, the net body count remained at zero.  That is, until he is informed that Ross & Co. also saved Lord Falmouth's nephew (which results in George's deliciously dour reaction).

I really loved this episode, but then again, I'm easy to please.  I thought the performances across the board were excellent and I had to fight back tears in multiple scenes.  I was sad to see Captain Henshawe meet his end but I think his death added more emotional weight to the scenes versus losing a less conspicuous character.  I also really liked the callback to Caroline's scurvy-fighting oranges.

This is probably a minority opinion since I know others here don't really care for it, but I find the Drake/Morwenna relationship quite charming so I was heartbroken for Drake after Morwenna's rejection.  It was the perfect driver for Drake to take his mind off the situation via the prison break.  I think allowing him to make the decision for himself to join the rescue gave the character more depth than simply watching him brood over an unattainable woman week after week.

I know mileage may vary, but overall I don't mind the changes the producers are making to the series as I can see how they are trying to appeal to modern TV audiences who may not have the time (or the care) to read the books.  This series still very much feels like Poldark to me so as long as the actors continue to give us great character portrayals and TPTB retain the overall spirit of the series then I'll be happy.

[Jacks-Son]

Someone posted a link that has transcripts of television shows. It's "audo" or "auto" something. I bookmarked the page, but I forgot to bookmark my bookmark :-) and cannot seem to find it. I think Cudgel said something about the rescue attempt NOT being unsuccessful as George believed, then he mentioned Armitage.

As for the Drake/Morwenna love affair, it wasn't that I didn't care for it, it was just that it took away from the valuable time I wanted the show to spend on other more crucial matters and characters. 

I'm glad Demelza didn't tell Drake that Morwenna does feel the same about him and lied just to protect him. If told that, I'm sure the hopeless puppy would have been back at her heels sniffing for scraps. Wow, that sounds mean.

[Pogojoco]

I love an episode with a folksy Demelza and a fancy lady Demelza. I thought she was fantastic on that beach. Happy and sad. Generally an excellent Demelza episode. (I love her in general, though.) 

The only thing I didn't like was Demelza telling Drake to find new purpose in his life and then saying 10 seconds later "Oh by the way, Ross is off on a daring rescue in France with a bunch of brave men to save their doctor friend."

I feel like she could've given the "find new purpose" speech to Drake and then Drake either overhear Ross and Demelza talking or have Prudie tell him. It just made Demelza look kind of dumb. 

[Jacks-Son]

3 hours ago, Glade said:

The newcomer Armitage really cleaned up well for the funeral--Demelza was right (and sweet) to be so generous with her hugs at the landing!  This was a great episode, however the 'next time on Poldark' previews are really killing my joy--last week's made me fear for Drake's life, and now they've done it again! 

That's why I never look at "Next time on such and such.....". It's a spoiler. Someone can be on the brink of death, and then the "Next time on..." shows that person alive. I understand that the "Next times" are done by the network and NOT the show, but they really don't take into account what they're showing. 

[Jacks-Son]

11 hours ago, Pogojoco said:

The only thing I didn't like was Demelza telling Drake to find new purpose in his life and then saying 10 seconds later "Oh by the way, Ross is off on a daring rescue in France with a bunch of brave men to save their doctor friend."

I feel like she could've given the "find new purpose" speech to Drake and then Drake either overhear Ross and Demelza talking or have Prudie tell him. It just made Demelza look kind of dumb. 

I re-watched that scene and Demelza didn't actually volunteer the information of Ross' plan, she was telling Drake to find a new purpose and not to give in to despair but to keep living because life is precious. She then said if Ross were here, he would tell him the same thing. Drake then asked where Ross was and Demelza cautioned him to keep the secret and then told him of the plan. So, unfortunate, but not dumb. Of course the contrivance of the conversation would still lead to the same action by Drake.

On a side note, when Ross was preparing the would-be saviors on French soil and giving them a chance to back out, watch Drake's reaction. He's watching Ross intently and trying to learn everything he can from his brother-in-law.  He clearly admires Ross and is taking notes on how to be a heroic leader. Smart boy! I can see him growing from a boy into a man.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Jacks-Son

[Glaze Crazy]

On 7/10/2017 at 1:12 PM, nodorothyparker said:

This was a pretty fine episode overall.  The one thing that would have made it better would have been enough lighting to be able to see all of it, but scenes shot in inky blackness seem to be the thing in television now.

 

LOL I feel ya, nodorothyparker.  I'm always quick to shut off all the lights that are reflecting off my dark TV screen to try and see some activity. I speculate that it's a choice so that they can skimp on set dressing. they could essentially shoot scenes in a minimally decorated space and call it whatever they want. Dungeon, cave, dragon's lair, late night street fight, aliens landing in a corn field, sharks, whatever.

I'm liking how poor old George is thwarted at every turn by Ross blithely going about his own business and still mucking up George's strategy to attain social standing. I also liked the subtle way Elizabeth gave some social advice with the extravagant necklace and trying too hard. I was glad he at least seemed to take it with grace instead of insisting on flaunting their wealth.

It's funny how George is chasing the lesser connection by selling out his cousin-in-law to a minor gentry momma's boy while Ross goes out and actually saves the life, albeit inadvertently, of the nephew of the person George really wants to cozy up to. I know it was mentioned in at least one of the conversations that Ross was being considered for MP by the gentry but does Ross really want that? He's already turned down the magistrate position due to his contempt for the disparity between the social classes. Then again, Ross going off to Parliament while George cools his heels as magistrate, handing out judgements to the local common riff-raff he hates is a delightful image.

Overall I liked this episode, especially the raid to save Dwight from the prison in France. I just finished this book a couple weeks ago and was wondering how they would set this up. I think they did a good job getting it to look fast paced and still intense on screen. Sad to see the loss of Henshawe though. He's been a pretty steady partner to Ross' business endeavours.

[nodorothyparker]

As far as I know, Ross doesn't have any idea his name is being put forth as a possible MP candidate.  This is the first mention we've gotten of it on the show.  It seems similar to the magistrate position in that George aggressively chases these things that the more powerful men want to twist Ross's arm into taking.  It does illustrate the marked difference between the two men, with George's attempted social climbing through any means necessary mixed in with his Ross obsession while Ross is off being Ross and isn't thinking about George or any of this stuff in the slightest.

I also liked the subtle way they were showing the difference between Elizabeth, who was born into the gentry and knows full well how things are perceived, and George, who's so desperate to be a part of it he tries to muscle his way in with ostentatious displays of his new money.  

[Jacks-Son]

On 7/10/2017 at 6:07 PM, NumberCruncher said:

Yeah, count me in as someone who enjoys the weekly stank-face we get from as George whenever he doesn't get exactly what he wants.  I'm completely aware that book George isn't nearly as villainous as TV George but I'm fine with it because Farthing plays it with such relish that I can forgive the inconsistency.

@Jacks-Son - he told George that the mission resulted in one injury and one death and George used that as evidence that the mission was a failure because even by saving Dwight, the net body count remained at zero.  That is, until he is informed that Ross & Co. also saved Lord Falmouth's nephew (which results in George's deliciously dour reaction).

@NumberCruncher:  Okay, I actually just re-watched this episode on BBC One's iPlayer with Subtitles On and this was the dialogue:

Cudgel: "Beggin your pardon, sir, I thought 'ee'd wish to know. The One & All returned from France and Ross Poldark with her. Dr Enys was saved."

Aunt Agatha: "As expected."

George: "Any casualties?"

Cudgel: "One wounded. One dead. Cap'n Henshawe from the mine."

George: "Then the mission can hardly be deemed a success. To liberate one man at the expense of another."

Cudgel: " 'Twas reckon'd a success for up to 20 men also 'scaped. One of 'em a person of great importance, a Leftenant Armitage." 

The rest is pretty clear. 

[purist]

I am a diehard fan of the original series, but this episode has finally turned me into a fan of the remake. Really well done.

[ComeWhatMay]

Agatha: “I have little to lose.” “George is a cruel man.” Truth. Makes me pity Valentine all the more. Half-siblings Jeremy & Clowance are bathed in love. 

“Entitled ease...” George tries much too hard, which old money in general are turned off by. Jewelry that is too ostentatious, houses that are “not practical.” Those who blend in & are not too showy — act as they aspire to be & don’t pick fights with or trash the people there — fare much better. Debasing himself over the dreg of the Godolphins at Morwenna’s expense is also hurting him & he doesn’t have a clue. 

Ouch. Geoffrey Charles snatching his hand from Elizabeth’s penetrated the narcotic induced fog. 

RIP, Captain Henshawe. Ross’ vision was brutal & showed self-awareness I appreciate before Ross’ obvious guilt at the funeral. Bless Demelza being so free with the hugs at the unit’s arrival. George foiled again. 

Caroline & Dwight are the sleeper super-couple. 

[Clawdette]

Half-siblings?  Jeremy and Clowence both have Ross as father and Demelza as mother.  Or did you mean to reference Jeffrey Charles and Valentine as half-siblings?

[Meredith Quill]

11 minutes ago, Clawdette said:

Half-siblings?  Jeremy and Clowence both have Ross as father and Demelza as mother.  Or did you mean to reference Jeffrey Charles and Valentine as half-siblings?

As the biological son of Ross, ComeWhatMay is comparing the parental situation of Valentine to that of his half siblings (Jeremy and Clowance).

[bmoore4026]

Yay, Dr. Dwight and Hot 18th Century Lady have been reunited!

Awww, but cute captain dude died :(

Poldark saving the lieutenant is going to bite George hard in the ass, ain't it?

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Poldark saving the lieutenant is going to bite George hard in the ass, ain't it?

I get the feeling Lieutenant Armitage might be a romantic interest for Morwenna, especially since he said he wanted to pick his own bride. George won't know what to do. Does he play the toady because of Armitage's connections or does he spontaneously combust because Armitage and Ross are now BFFs? Hee.

Poor Henshawe, but he was prepared to die for the cause. The service was lovely.

Whitworth makes my skin crawl every time I see him. Kudos to the actor for making him so deeply repellent. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

21 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I get the feeling Lieutenant Armitage might be a romantic interest for Morwenna, especially since he said he wanted to pick his own bride. George won't know what to do. Does he play the toady because of Armitage's connections or does he spontaneously combust because Armitage and Ross are now BFFs? Hee.

I am SO looking forward to George's downfall. Or have something happen to him that will have him the loser for the next little while. I'm so sick and tired of his 'stache twirling villainy, to be honest.

22 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Poor Henshawe, but he was prepared to die for the cause. The service was lovely.

It was a very lovely service. But I couldn't help but think, wasn't it possible to carry his body/not body (since Dwight confessed he wasn't dead, but would have been within the hour) to the boat so they could bury him? I hate to think his body is left there to rot.

23 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Whitworth makes my skin crawl every time I see him. Kudos to the actor for making him so deeply repellent. 

Truer words have never been spoken! I just said the same exact thing to a friend when we were talking about this season.

[dubbel zout]

5 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'm so sick and tired of his 'stache twirling villainy, to be honest.

Heh. I kind of enjoy it, actually. George keeps shooting himself in the foot because he can't play the long game. He's so desperate to barge his way into society and one-up Ross that he takes the immediate gratification without thinking it through. 

7 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But I couldn't help but think, wasn't it possible to carry his body/not body (since Dwight confessed he wasn't dead, but would have been within the hour) to the boat so they could bury him?

Did they have enough people to do that? Dwight needed help, Lieutenant Armitage was likely pretty weak, and Drake was injured. The bigger issue was they were worried they wouldn't make it to the rowboat in time to get out to the One & All so they'd be able to set sail for England. Dwight telling them Henshawe was dead stopped the discussion about what to do with him so they could make it. That said, I hated that he was just left propped up against a tree.

[HoodlumSheep]

RIP henshawe :( you were a good man and will be missed.

The singing quartet with the perfect harmony kinda took me out of the funeral scene though. :/

George is just embarassing himself at this point. You know it's bad when even goonish Whitworth is side-eyeing him. Even elizabeth looks fed up with his constant whining.

Nana Poldark pulling out the tarot cards and forseeing some not so good things for morwenna and drake. Love you, nana. 

Not much else to say about this episode, actually. Henshawe will be missed, glad to see dwight home, george is embarassing himself. 

[Stella]

12 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I get the feeling Lieutenant Armitage might be a romantic interest for Morwenna, especially since he said he wanted to pick his own bride.

Definitely agree. I fully expect this in future episodes.

[jzygayle]

This episode was so well done, but it seriously needed a tissue box warning.  I was practically sobbing by the end.

While I can see the obvious shipping for Lt. Armitage and Morwenna, I hope they just become good friends.  I don't want George thinking that's his ticket to society.  On the other hand, Whitworth is just a creeper, I could see Armitage coming to her rescue.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Jeez, Dwight, why do you always have to be such a Debbie Downer?  Caroline, you want this guy . . . why?

Oh Elizabeth, of course GC is gonna tear his hand outta yours.  When you stand with the moustache-twirler, you are complicit, hun.

Ew, get away from Morwenna, you Weinstein/O'Reilly creep!

Man, being Ross's friend or relative gets you killed more often than not, doesn't it?

Those fancy-shmancy parties Georgie-boy luvs so much really don't look like much fun, do they?

Edited October 24, 2017 by ScoobieDoobs

[Llywela]

7 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Ew, get away from Rowena, you Weinstein/O'Reilly creep!

psst, her name is Morwenna, not Rowena. :)

[Arwen Evenstar]

20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

20 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Whitworth makes my skin crawl every time I see him. Kudos to the actor for making him so deeply repellent. 

Truer words have never been spoken! I just said the same exact thing to a friend when we were talking about this season.

You would be even more surprised to know that the actor who portrays him is actually quite a dish.  He gained about 30 lbs for the role and squeezed himself into those dandy, foppish outfits.  This character he portrays IS deeply repellent.  My skin crawls whenever I see him.  That takes real chops.

[applecrisp]

Morwena looks like Sue Heck from the Middle.  This show has some unusual names.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Then there's that twit who ended up getting killed by yelling "ESCAPE! ESCAPE!" Like, why did he do that? Because he wasn't chosen to be saved and freed? Did he really think their guards would let him go if he squealed? And he just would not shut up, and mind his own business. And what did he get for it? Killed by the very guards he was squealing to.

[kassygreene]

Starvation, fear of imminent death, bad living conditions, fear in general; these are factors that reduce intelligence.  Plus, 18th-century people haven't read as many books or seen as many movies & tv shows as we have.  You either speak up for yourself or be left behind....  Of course, he wound up with option three, death.

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 hours ago, applecrisp said:

Morwena looks like Sue Heck from the Middle.  This show has some unusual names.

Names like Morwenna and Demelza are Cornish in their origin. Cornish was its own language at one time.  It was revived when it was discovered there were only 300 to 500 native speakers left, who were all very old.

If you watched and enjoyed Doc Martin, also filmed in Cornwall, his receptionist was named Morwenna.  They are likely still not names you hear every day over there, but the TV series may bring some popularity back to the names. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, kassygreene said:

Starvation, fear of imminent death, bad living conditions, fear in general; these are factors that reduce intelligence.  Plus, 18th-century people haven't read as many books or seen as many movies & tv shows as we have.  You either speak up for yourself or be left behind....  Of course, he wound up with option three, death.

Must you use logic?

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, applecrisp said:

 This show has some unusual names.

Nothing beats Clowance for me.  It sounds like Elmer Fudd trying to say Clarence.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Nothing beats Clowance for me.  It sounds like Elmer Fudd trying to say Clarence.

???????????

[applecrisp]

1 hour ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Names like Morwenna and Demelza are Cornish in their origin. Cornish was its own language at one time.  It was revived when it was discovered there were only 300 to 500 native speakers left, who were all very old.

If you watched and enjoyed Doc Martin, also filmed in Cornwall, his receptionist was named Morwenna.  They are likely still not names you hear every day over there, but the TV series may bring some popularity back to the names. 

Interesting info.  I think I have some Cornish blood so always like to here this type of stuff.  Are there still Cornish speakers around?

[Anothermi]

17 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

The singing quartet with the perfect harmony kinda took me out of the funeral scene though. :/

I'm curious as to why this would take you out of the scene. 

Is it is the fact that they could sing in perfect harmony?   Back then singing would have been a major source of community entertainment.  There would be quite a few people with innate feel for music but no formal training.  They created their own harmonies or learned them from others in the community - by ear.  The best ones would be asked to sing for the important events.

Once access to written music and training became available to masses of people, scholars often went in search of regional harmony variants that arose from just that kind of not-written-down music so they wouldn't be lost.

I'm not saying that the show searched out authentic regional harmonies, so what that quartet sang may not have been regional, but having 4 people in the community who could sing beautifully in perfect harmony is not so far fetched.

(Of course, that all is only if it was the beautiful harmony that took you out of the scene. )  ;-)

[ScoobieDoobs]

Looking at all the curly hair blowing in the wind almost makes me wanna throw away my flat iron.  Well, almost.

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, Anothermi said:

I'm not saying that the show searched out authentic regional harmonies, so what that quartet sang may not have been regional, but having 4 people in the community who could sing beautifully in perfect harmony is not so far fetched.

Especially if three of them are related to each other and probably grew up singing together. We saw previously that Demelza could sing, from the Christmas celebration where she plucked a string on the harp to get her pitch and then sang beautifully a capella. We've also seen the brothers singing as part of their church services. Those early Methodists wouldn't have had a piano or organ in their churches (if they even had a church where they could hold services), so they had to be able to sing a capella, and would have added harmonies to make that more interesting. If you grow up having to sing that way, you get good at it.

[Arwen Evenstar]

5 hours ago, applecrisp said:

Interesting info.  I think I have some Cornish blood so always like to here this type of stuff.  Are there still Cornish speakers around?

Yes. There are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_language

[Jacks-Son]

Applecrisp, if you're game for some Dramedy, I would try and take Arwen Evenstar's suggestion about trying the British series "Doc Martin". The 8th series just began a several weeks ago, and they've already indicated that their 9th season will be their last (a shame), but it's a great series and you can catch it on PBS, or if you have an Acorn TV account, you can watch all of the series. Series 8 is airing on Acorn TV now. It takes place in Cornwall in a little fishing town called Portwenn.

[Arwen Evenstar]

36 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Applecrisp, if you're game for some Dramedy, I would try and take Arwen Evenstar's suggestion about trying the British series "Doc Martin". The 8th series just began a several weeks ago, and they've already indicated that their 9th season will be their last (a shame), but it's a great series and you can catch it on PBS, or if you have an Acorn TV account, you can watch all of the series. Series 8 is airing on Acorn TV now. It takes place in Cornwall in a little fishing town called Portwenn.

Love this show.  The faces he makes alone are priceless! Portwenn is a fictional town. It was actually filmed in Port Isaac. Gorgeous town. The 75 series of Poldark was filmed there also. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Isaac

[Jacks-Son]

19 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Love this show.  The faces he makes alone are priceless! Portwenn is a fictional town. It was actually filmed in Port Isaac. Gorgeous town. The 75 series of Poldark was filmed there also.

I've been watching "Doc Martin" since series 1. The mod may complain, but if you like Martin Clunes, try checking out "William and Mary". Don't want to hijack the thread, so back to Poldark.

BTW, I didn't know P75 was filmed in Port Issac. Interesting factoid. :-)

[Casually Observant]

Questions for the viewers:

1. Is is everyone in agreement that Elizabeth is keeping herself in a drugged state because she hates both her baby and her new husband?  Because it seems she is all on board with her husband's behavior and actions for the most part. The poor baby, though is so neglected. 

2. Has she decided the child is definitely Ross's?  If so, is that why she is neglecting him? Or, is it postpartum depression?

3. Does Ross realize he may be the father?  I don't think he does. But I think both Aunt Agatha and Demelza think so.

4. If Ross is the father, how would anyone ever find out?

5. Why was Elizabeth so surprised and dismayed when she heard that Demelza had also just birthed another daughter?  Was she surprised that Ross was still having sex with Demelza when he took her in a wild fit of passion the night he raped her (with partial compliance by Elizabeth)? 

6. Does anyone see potential friendship or romance between the children of Elizabeth and Demelza - i.e., kissing cousins?  Would they eventually realize they are siblings?  Will they look quite a bit alike?

Just speculating...feel free to chime in.  NO spoilers, though!

[kassygreene]

It's laudanum, which is an opiate.  So at first it numbed her, then the addictive bit kicks in, and it keeps her in a permanent state of "don't care".

[Jacks-Son]

I think Elizabeth has been in a depressed state ever since Ross told her that Demelza is the love of his life. That both shocked her and hurt her.

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Casually Observant said:

The poor baby, though is so neglected

I think the whole situation with the baby is extremely unrealistic. The baby wouldn't be in Elizabeth's room at all,  but in a nursery with a nanny who loved him.  It was not uncommon for aristocrats to ignore their children until they were home from Oxford with something interesting to say. 

[dcalley]

On 10/24/2017 at 9:21 PM, Jacks-Son said:

Applecrisp, if you're game for some Dramedy, I would try and take Arwen Evenstar's suggestion about trying the British series "Doc Martin". The 8th series just began a several weeks ago, and they've already indicated that their 9th season will be their last (a shame), but it's a great series and you can catch it on PBS, or if you have an Acorn TV account, you can watch all of the series. Series 8 is airing on Acorn TV now. It takes place in Cornwall in a little fishing town called Portwenn.

Netflix has most of it, too.

I wished the show hadn't made it so obvious that the guy with Dr Enys was well connected and going to come back with them all. IMO it would have been better to have that as a surprise at the end of the episode. I also can't believe they didn't show Aunt Agatha smirking after George found out Ross's rescue was a big success.

[rebecca dewinter]

3 hours ago, Casually Observant said:

Questions for the viewers:

1. Is is everyone in agreement that Elizabeth is keeping herself in a drugged state because she hates both her baby and her new husband?  Because it seems she is all on board with her husband's behavior and actions for the most part. The poor baby, though is so neglected. 

2. Has she decided the child is definitely Ross's?  If so, is that why she is neglecting him? Or, is it postpartum depression?

3. Does Ross realize he may be the father?  I don't think he does. But I think both Aunt Agatha and Demelza think so.

4. If Ross is the father, how would anyone ever find out?

5. Why was Elizabeth so surprised and dismayed when she heard that Demelza had also just birthed another daughter?  Was she surprised that Ross was still having sex with Demelza when he took her in a wild fit of passion the night he raped her (with partial compliance by Elizabeth)? 

6. Does anyone see potential friendship or romance between the children of Elizabeth and Demelza - i.e., kissing cousins?  Would they eventually realize they are siblings?  Will they look quite a bit alike?

Just speculating...feel free to chime in.  NO spoilers, though!

1. Elizabeth is drugging herself because of the stress induced by George being a deliciously terrible person and the fact that she has a big ass secret that could provoke George to direct his terrible-ness in her direction and her children's. Already he's trying to take GC away from her and he keeps calling Valentine "my heir" so she sees how much emphasis he places on that aspect. 

2. No one knows for sure whose child it is (at this stage). There is no paternity test obviously but the fact that the baby came "early" and his dark hair color are not good signs in her book. At the very least, it arouses suspicion because everyone knows of her history with Ross. Curly black isn't that common a trait in this neck of the woods either. Also we know that children grow darker as they get older especially at puberty, so it's just a lifetime of stress for Elizabeth lol. 

3. Ross just ignores things that are inconvenient to him. That's simply his character, so he really doesn't think about it much besides when Demezla makes that offhand comment about why Elizabeth would fall down the stairs.

4. This is the 18th century so there is no full-on proof for parentage. The worst that could happen is if Ned Stark shows up and does his punnett squares and then decides to spread gossip about Valentine. 

5. Here's the thing with Elizabeth - she may "hate" Ross at the moment but she still kind of loves him and is a bit possessive of his affections if that makes sense and she's always resented Demelza (even though she put up a good front in the earlier years). In Elizabeth's eyes, Demelza is the ONLY reason in the world why Ross isn't currently hers right now, nevermind all the legal obstacles to such an arrangement. Remember Elizabeth's face when Ross rode in to stop the mob and then extended his hand to Demelza. The fact that Elizabeth is currently miserable in her marriage but Ross and Demelza, at least on the surface, are back on track, is pissing her off.  Re: the night of passion/rape/whatever, I will say it is a highly problematic scene and emblematic of rape culture, but in the context of the show and comments from Heida Reed who personally refused to act in a rape scene, I will take their word for how Elizabeth viewed it. Given that she was fantasizing about that night in the following episode and wanted him to leave his wife for her, I think she simply sees Demelza as the obstacle to her happiness and is forever resentful of whatever happiness Demezla has (which includes having a new baby I guess). 

6. I don't think they're going to delve into the later books on the show cause it would require a huge time jump and probably recasting the actors. I think like Wuthering Heights, this story is best told as a one generation story, which seems to be what they're planning. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, rebecca dewinter said:

6. I don't think they're going to delve into the later books on the show cause it would require a huge time jump and probably recasting the actors. I think like Wuthering Heights, this story is best told as a one generation story, which seems to be what they're planning. 

Wuthering Heights was written well before the Poldark novels, though I don’t disagree that there are indeed some parallels in the sense that it was as sad story of an unrequited love that ended badly for Cathy and Heathcliff, and we see thus far that Elizabeth doesn’t really have what she wants, either. One generation of Wuthering Heights was more than enough heartbreak.

The original series filmed in the 70s ended where it did because more books had yet not been written.  How far they will continue to film it will depend on interest of the fans or the willingness of the creative team to deal with the aging characters and tidily tie up the storylines,

By the way, I enjoyed your bullet point synopses. Really nicely done!

Edited October 28, 2017 by Arwen Evenstar
Forgot a thought