S09.E14: A Slippery Slope

[film noire]

3 hours ago, Missmissie173 said:

 her denial of age is just sad.

Yes, it is.  It's also maddening, because she looked youthful and pretty (which is not a necessity, but it matters to her, clearly) up until she screwed with all it, ruining a great figure with matronly implants, changing her face with too much filler and that damn scarcecrow hair.

It's getting to the point where she should bring older pictures of herself into a plastic surgeon's office and say, 'I'd like to look like that woman again". 

eta; she needs to have a "come to fashion jesus" meeting with linda rodin.

Edited July 6, 2017 by film noire

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, Ki-in said:

Was Carole's toast just a rehash of her silly mermaid friendship poem?  I think that's why Sonja shut her down.

I was raised secular so I have no frame of reference but my bff was raised Catholic and she told me that the nuns taught her that French kissing was a mortal sin (?). Can any other Catholics deny or confirm? This is why I was surprised that Ramona didn't consider oral sex to be sex. But hey, I get it, we've all had those encounters that just "don't count".

I was raised  RC and we were taught that all/any type of premarital sex was bad/wrong. They didn't differentiate oral, anal or intercourse, it was all off limits before you were married. We were not taught that French kissing was bad though.

43 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

OK, so this is the key for me. I don't watch WWHL because I don't really care for Andy (though I clearly partake in these RH shows), so I hadn't seen Bethenny say this as well. 

In any case, I'm still not seeing where talking about what Jason did--like, there's actual proof that he did these things--means that Carole is trashing him. Jason did something awful outside Bryn's school. Carole says that it's being reported he did something awful outside Bryn's school. It's in the news that Jason was sending harassing e-mails and/or texts. Carole says that she's seen these correspondences. How that equates to Carole is trashing Jason boggles my mind. 

Carole repeated things Bethenny told her off camera on the show, as well as reading the page 6 article, so Yes, Carole is trashing Jason FOR Bethenny. This is how Bethenny is getting around not being allowed to talk about him, the divorce (in detail) or the custody agreement on the show. Oh and Carole called Jason names on last nights episode even though she has never met him or heard his side of the story, she is accepting everything Bethenny has told her as gospel. 

[WireWrap]

13 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

You know I think Jason/the divorce/the custody is interesting.  I remember the custody and then the divorce.  But does anyone remember where this was reported.  And yes I've googled my brains out but that doesn't mean it didn't get reported, just that I can't find it.

Bottom line is that the minute he went public it's not up to Bethenny anymore.  And once he shouted I'll destroy you.  In public.  At his daughter's school.  I would think anyone can talk about it any time they want.  If she really can't talk about Jason that explains a lot.  He thought he could get away with that ugly behavior because what was she going to do? 

You can't find what? I am not sure what you are looking for. 

Yes and No. Yes, he said something nasty to her in front of others but it only became public because Bethenny filed charges against him but I agree, Jason should have kept his mouth closed. That said, Jason's big complaint is that Bethenny has talked about him/Bryn/their divorce in interviews, on her radio show and on this show even though she is not allowed to. Why is it Ok for Bethenny to do it, which comes across as her gaslighting him IMO, but he isn't allowed to send her emails telling her to stop and blowing his lid 1 time in public? Seriously, why do some think it's OK for Bethenny to break the rules but when Jason does it he is a monster?

[Mrs peel]

3 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I hate to defend Ramona, but the snow really is different in the two places.   The east is known for ice (which is why I bow down to anybody who learns to ski there), while Aspen and all the lesser nearby resorts have dry snow that is vastly easier to ski on. 

I think she was scared of the ice, which is reasonable for an intermediate skier who's not used to it--she's probably hit icy patches in Aspen before and thought, "Oh holy hell I can't imagine a whole mountain of this shit."  So she was probably unnerved by the possible lack of control and the fear of falling on something really hard, with her 40-year-old bones.  So she didn't want people skiing close.  Of course, given the population density of the area, if you don't want people skiing close, you shouldn't ski there at all, but I don't think telling your friend to keep a distance is unreasonable.

And I don't like snowboarders behind me, either.  I hate that scraping sound coming up behind me, too often caused by someone who is out of control.  Unless I see they're on a Skinnygirl snowboard, in which case I know they're serious about the sport.

 

But Ramona acted like she was an expert skier, "I ONLY ski Aspen!"  If true, she could handle some ice (and unless she learned how to ski after she had money, she learned on East Coast ice).  And her style was horrible, she didn't plant her poles at all in the turns.    They all seemed to be on a beginner's trail (or easy intermediate at best), so they all could have been going much faster (though B and Lu seemed to be doing fine).  Ramona can get over being alone while skiing, it's her responsibility to ski well enough to avoid others.  It's not like Tinsley was crashing into anyone.

I cringed at the sockless feet on the chair and table; who takes their ski socks off in the lodge?  Jeez, learn compassion for your neighbors!  Ramona was horrible with the ski instructor too - and I thought she and Sonja wanted instructors not for the skiing tips, but so they would each have a much younger man to hang onto all day.  Poor ski instructors.....

I was a bit surprised by the large amount of ski-centric attire, tone it down ladies!  We know you are at a ski area, you don't have to have shirts/slacks with skiers on them.  I didn't notice anyone with ski area logo'd clothes (No Aspen hat for Ramona???).  Maybe Bravo allowed only one brand to be shown other than Stratton (looking at you B and the so carefully placed snowboard in the gondola).

On a personal note, I'm one of those who learned to ski on the east coast (southern NY and NJ of all places).  It definitely helps to learn on ice early on, helps with turns.  But the first time I hit powder?  Disaster!  Luckily someone came by who was willing to shepherd me down the trail.  Skiing VT, I had assumed all that new snow would have been packed down before the slopes opened!

I assume B and Jason's joint custody agmt bars talking publicly about each other, and that's why she herself has been quiet.  But I'm on the side that thinks Carole is talking for her, and Dorinda was pretty quick to make up her mind without seemingly knowing anything about it. 

Sonja is out of line continuing to talk about her rare sexual escapades with Tom.  They're over, he's married. 

[QuinnM]

Quote

You can't find what? I am not sure what you are looking for. 

The court ruling that neither can discuss each other.  That's fairly unusual so I figured it was reported.

Quote

That said, Jason's big complaint is that Bethenny has talked about him/Bryn/their divorce in interviews, on her radio show and on this show even though she is not allowed to. Why is it Ok for Bethenny to do it, which comes across as her gaslighting him IMO, but he isn't allowed to send her emails telling her to stop and blowing his lid 1 time in public?

If the settlement says she can't talk about it then he can bring her into court.  Easy peasy.  He threatened it once but nothing ever came of it.

Emails that call her old, ugly, irrelevant?  He's an idiot.  I wouldn't have taken one month of that before I filed a complaint.  And how do we know it's just the 1 time?  It's the time that he got arrested but there could have been others when she just walked away. 

[ryebread]

31 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Yeah her little dance freakout over it was weird. I am not saying it's cheap but it's certainly within her price point.

Any dance Ramona does is weird.

[Missmissie173]

1 hour ago, Ki-in said:

Was Carole's toast just a rehash of her silly mermaid friendship poem?  I think that's why Sonja shut her down.

I was raised secular so I have no frame of reference but my bff was raised Catholic and she told me that the nuns taught her that French kissing was a mortal sin (?). Can any other Catholics deny or confirm? This is why I was surprised that Ramona didn't consider oral sex to be sex. But hey, I get it, we've all had those encounters that just "don't count".

Raised and educated in the Catholic Church here.  There can be big differences in belief systems and educational styles depending on the order of nuns you were exposed to - say The Sisters of Ursuline (the nuns I was taught by,) versus say The Carmelite or Cistercian Orders.

I think it is also a generational thing. I honestly never heard any of the Sisters mention French Kissing or really, REALLY never mention anything about oral sex - Oh sweet Jesus wept! - sorry J/K.  They had more interest in conjugating verbs...HA.

JMO, but Ramona plays a good game of being all sexually flirty, but in reality I think she has Catholic guilt syndrome about sex in general, and can be quite prudish.

Maybe that is part of the reason Ramona is having such a hard time getting over Mario - he knew her limits. I may bash on her because I just don't like her, but I do feel sorry for her about Mario. Just leave and be honest, but don't cheat and break someone's heart. Douche tool.

[chewycandy]

I've seen Skinnygirl products in my grocery stores and CVS. 

Luann in the flashback didn't appear to have much makeup on. I thought she looked great and not mannish. I dont think turtlenecks flatter her. I appreciate her table manners -- when Dorinda was going off and yelling CLIP!! last episode she had her head in her hands, which she also did when Aviva threw her leg on the table, lol

It probably irks Ramona that Lu is effortlessly sensual, Ramona's supposed to be the sexy Scorpio! 

[ghoulina]

42 minutes ago, jennylauren123 said:

She's just so awful, but she is the gift that keeps on giving. I wish I had saved the episode where she's at the table with Avery and friends, and she's just gushing with them, as if she's 20-whatever, too.

I'm rewatching the first season and in the first episode Ramona remarks that Avery is often put off by her "wild" behavior, but Avery's FRIENDS all just adore her. Um yea, okay. 

[QuinnM]

Quote

I think it is also a generational thing. I honestly never heard any of the Sisters mention French Kissing or really, REALLY never mention anything about oral sex - Oh sweet Jesus wept! - sorry J/K.  They had more interest in conjugating verbs...HA.

Fransican educated here.  Diagramming sentences is my talent.  I also have a lovely Palmer Method cursive handwriting.  I also swallow gum when addressed by my baptismal name.

[Ki-in]

3 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Fransican educated here.  Diagramming sentences is my talent.  I also have a lovely Palmer Method cursive handwriting.  I also swallow gum when addressed by my baptismal name.

A lost art....

[ghoulina]

37 minutes ago, film noire said:

Yes, it is.  It's also maddening, because she looked youthful and pretty (which is not a necessity, but it matters to her, clearly) up until she screwed with all it, ruining a great figure with matronly implants, changing her face with too much filler and that damn scarcecrow hair.

Again, in reference to season one - she's in some office getting some of her "maintenance" done, but I agree - she looks great. And she's joking around that she never wants to look like the overly done women - "ducklips and chipmunk cheeks" Oh, Ramona.....

 

38 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Carole repeated things Bethenny told her off camera on the show, as well as reading the page 6 article, so Yes, Carole is trashing Jason FOR Bethenny. This is how Bethenny is getting around not being allowed to talk about him, the divorce (in detail) or the custody agreement on the show. Oh and Carole called Jason names on last nights episode even though she has never met him or heard his side of the story, she is accepting everything Bethenny has told her as gospel. 

When my good girlfriend went through a bad breakup and even worse custody trial, I didn't doubt her side for a second. She's my friend. I didn't feel the need to get the guy's side or get to know him.  There are some things that cannot be disputed - the amount of emails/texts, the fact that he was CCing her current boyfriend, the content of those communications, and his verbal attack at the child's school. So Carole may have seen enough to form her own opinion. At any rate, generally when you have a closer friendship, you feel like you know your friend. So why not believe them?

[film noire]

19 minutes ago, Missmissie173 said:

 They had more interest in conjugating verbs...HA.

I say now what I said then (and got sent to the office for) if sex is only for making babies, then anything that can't make a baby isn't sex.

Edited July 6, 2017 by film noire
correcting the quote i was responding to so sister mary john doesn't turn up

[QuinnM]

Quote

I say now what I said then (and got sent to the office for) if sex is only for making babies, then anything that can't make a baby isn't sex.

I will pray for you.

[film noire]

2 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

I will pray for you.

LOL -- well played, madam, well played ;)

[Thumper]

My Catholic school  closed after 5th grade, so we only got the "wear deodorant and take a shower speech" from the nuns.  I can't imagine nuns teaching sex ed!  

Edited July 6, 2017 by Thumper

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Real Housewives Of New York City Is Fluffy On Top, Icy On The Bottom

This week's ski trip keeps changing course and pulling off incredible tricks. Jordan Veilleux's got questions!

[Normades]

18 minutes ago, Missmissie173 said:

Raised and educated in the Catholic Church here.  There can be big differences in belief systems and educational styles depending on the order of nuns you were exposed to - say The Sisters of Ursuline (the nuns I was taught by,) versus say The Carmelite or Cistercian Orders.

I think it is also a generational thing. I honestly never heard any of the Sisters mention French Kissing or really, REALLY never mention anything about oral sex - Oh sweet Jesus wept! - sorry J/K.  They had more interest in conjugating verbs...HA.

JMO, but Ramona plays a good game of being all sexually flirty, but in reality I think she has Catholic guilt syndrome about sex in general, and can be quite prudish.

Maybe that is part of the reason Ramona is having such a hard time getting over Mario - he knew her limits. I may bash on her because I just don't like her, but I do feel sorry for her about Mario. Just leave and be honest, but don't cheat and break someone's heart. Douche tool.

Also raised RC.  I agree with your take.  It depends on who taught you.  We did have a priest who covered lots of taboo subjects.  There were girls who had the opinion that as long as they didn't have reproductive sex, it was all okay.  As long as you had a hymen on your wedding night all was well.  I seriously doubt that any church official would agree with that but I think they subscribed to the line of thought similar to @film noire, where if reproduction is not happening, it's okay.  There was a lot of prudish behavior and guilt, which is what I see in Ramona.  This is why I don't believe she's having sex with anyone, even herself.  "cause that's a sin, too!!!

[WireWrap]

14 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Again, in reference to season one - she's in some office getting some of her "maintenance" done, but I agree - she looks great. And she's joking around that she never wants to look like the overly done women - "ducklips and chipmunk cheeks" Oh, Ramona.....

 

When my good girlfriend went through a bad breakup and even worse custody trial, I didn't doubt her side for a second. She's my friend. I didn't feel the need to get the guy's side or get to know him.  There are some things that cannot be disputed - the amount of emails/texts, the fact that he was CCing her current boyfriend, the content of those communications, and his verbal attack at the child's school. So Carole may have seen enough to form her own opinion. At any rate, generally when you have a closer friendship, you feel like you know your friend. So why not believe them?

I don't have a problem with Carole supporting or believing Bethenny but her, Carole, calling someone she has never met names on national TV is wrong IMO. And, once again, she has Bethenny's blessing in talking about Jason/the divorce/Bryn, which is tantamount to Bethenny talking about it on the show which is a way to gaslight Jason, which is just as bad as sending 160-170 emails over the course of several months, one act triggered the other act IMO. Both Jason and Bethenny are playing a dangerous game.

[Mozelle]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

Yes, it is.  It's also maddening, because she looked youthful and pretty (which is not a necessity, but it matters to her, clearly) up until she screwed with all it, ruining a great figure with matronly implants, changing her face with too much filler and that damn scarcecrow hair.

It's getting to the point where she should bring older pictures of herself into a plastic surgeon's office and say, 'I'd like to look like that woman again". 

eta; she needs to have a "come to fashion jesus" meeting with linda rodin;

I follow her on Instagram! It's just this glorious gallery of her looking fabulous as well as sharing interesting shots of all the things. I like her. 

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

I was raised  RC and we were taught that all/any type of premarital sex was bad/wrong. They didn't differentiate oral, anal or intercourse, it was all off limits before you were married. We were not taught that French kissing was bad though.

Carole repeated things Bethenny told her off camera on the show, as well as reading the page 6 article, so Yes, Carole is trashing Jason FOR Bethenny. This is how Bethenny is getting around not being allowed to talk about him, the divorce (in detail) or the custody agreement on the show. Oh and Carole called Jason names on last nights episode even though she has never met him or heard his side of the story, she is accepting everything Bethenny has told her as gospel. 

Carole said that Jason is gaslighting Bethenny. I, again, don't think that's trashing Jason. Hell, I don't know these people and just last month (I had to do a search), I said the same thing about Jason: he's gaslighting Bethenny. 

[WireWrap]

51 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

The court ruling that neither can discuss each other.  That's fairly unusual so I figured it was reported.

If the settlement says she can't talk about it then he can bring her into court.  Easy peasy.  He threatened it once but nothing ever came of it.

Emails that call her old, ugly, irrelevant?  He's an idiot.  I wouldn't have taken one month of that before I filed a complaint.  And how do we know it's just the 1 time?  It's the time that he got arrested but there could have been others when she just walked away. 

Bethenny herself has said that she is not allowed to talk about the custody agreement, the divorce or Jason on WWHL several times. I think taking her to court for violating the agreement/court order is cost prohibitive for Jason and Bethenny knows this which is why she does it. 

1 minute ago, Mozelle said:

I follow her on Instagram! It's just this glorious gallery of her looking fabulous as well as sharing interesting shots of all the things. I like her. 

Carole said that Jason is gaslighting Bethenny. I, again, don't think that's trashing Jason. Hell, I don't know these people and just last month (I had to do a search), I said the same thing about Jason: he's gaslighting Bethenny. 

IMO, Bethenny is gaslighting him!

[Mozelle]

2 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Bethenny herself has said that she is not allowed to talk about the custody agreement, the divorce or Jason on WWHL several times. I think taking her to court for violating the agreement/court order is cost prohibitive for Jason and Bethenny knows this which is why she does it. 

IMO, Bethenny is gaslighting him!

In what way(s)?

[Lemons]

4 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I hate to defend Ramona, but the snow really is different in the two places.   The east is known for ice (which is why I bow down to anybody who learns to ski there), while Aspen and all the lesser nearby resorts have dry snow that is vastly easier to ski on.

 

That would be me and my family.  I have only skied in Vermont, New Hampshire,  Maine and eastern canada. This area is typically a lot colder too. I didn't see anyone else complain about the conditions and they have skied all over the world. Ramona probably didn't ski until she was an adult making her more timid than the rest. And course Ramona mentioned Aspen a million times because that's the stereotyped rich people ski resort and she wants everyone to know that she goes there. Apparently not too often based on her skiing. 

[Normades]

3 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

Carole said that Jason is gaslighting Bethenny. I, again, don't think that's trashing Jason. Hell, I don't know these people and just last month (I had to do a search), I said the same thing about Jason: he's gaslighting Bethenny. 

When Carole said that I was like "What?"  I don't understand how someone saying you're a bad mother or you look old is gaslighting.  Is B questioning her sanity?  Seriously, saying things like that is not nice, but to me it is not gaslighting.  If I've misunderstood, please explain, but I really don't get the usage of this term in this situation at all. 

[Mozelle]

2 minutes ago, Normades said:

When Carole said that I was like "What?"  I don't understand how someone saying you're a bad mother or you look old is gaslighting.  Is B questioning her sanity?  Seriously, saying things like that is not nice, but to me it is not gaslighting.  If I've misunderstood, please explain, but I really don't get the usage of this term in this situation at all. 

When I made the gaslighting comment last month, it was after conversation in the Bethenny & Jason thread where we learned (I think from Carole when they were up in the Berkshires?) that Jason would call Bethenny "Bernadette." As I said in that thread, if you actively choose to call someone by the name of the person with whom they've had a very contentious relationship, you're intentionally being an asshole. And because Jason has (had?) this public "nice guy" persona it makes it hard to believe Bethenny. He gets to be the "I don't know why you're upset? You're being crazy right now" guy precisely because Bethenny can also be abrasive. 

[mostlylurking]

2 hours ago, KungFuBunny said:

If Skinny Girl Products would make me money and paid my bills, you better believe that I would have the logo tattooed in every one of my cheeks. 

All the words to this!!  As I've said on here before I've really come to dislike Beth just the way her personality comes across, but this bitch knows business and marketing.  No shame in her game!  It's her business, her livelihood and who cares if people don't like it or find it annoying.  Actually I need to adopt a little more of that attitude myself!

[SweetieDarling]

How about Luann almost burning down the house trying to light the fireplace?

 

I hope the owners of that house weren't watching...or maybe they should have been, so they can label the igniter more clearly. Sheeesh!  

[bagatelle]

40 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

When my good girlfriend went through a bad breakup and even worse custody trial, I didn't doubt her side for a second. She's my friend. I didn't feel the need to get the guy's side or get to know him.  There are some things that cannot be disputed - the amount of emails/texts, the fact that he was CCing her current boyfriend, the content of those communications, and his verbal attack at the child's school. So Carole may have seen enough to form her own opinion. At any rate, generally when you have a closer friendship, you feel like you know your friend. So why not believe them?

She can have as many opinions as she wants -- but why devote whole scenes of her telling us, the viewing audience. It's her prattling that looks so bad. 

[film noire]

51 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

I follow her on Instagram! It's just this glorious gallery of her looking fabulous as well as sharing interesting shots of all the things. I like her. 

She's fantastic -- wish she could be a Friend Of  -- I'm sure she and Tinsley have crossed paths (add Mortimer to the list of housewives needing Linda's style advice).

Edited July 6, 2017 by film noire

[TexasGal]

10 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

How about Luann almost burning down the house trying to light the fireplace?

 

I hope the owners of that house weren't watching...or maybe they should have been, so they can label the igniter more clearly. Sheeesh!  

Wasn't the problem that there wasn't an igniter?  She had turned the gas on but had to manually light it.  Lord knows how long the gas was on before she lit that match.  I have a similar (functionality, not scale sadly) fireplace and am always chicken to light it.  I've settled on light a piece of newspaper and then turn the gas on.  (For the 2 days in Texas that it's cold enough for a fire anyway...FWPs...)

Edited July 6, 2017 by TexasGal

[Normades]

2 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

When I made the gaslighting comment last month, it was after conversation in the Bethenny & Jason thread where we learned (I think from Carole when they were up in the Berkshires?) that Jason would call Bethenny "Bernadette." As I said in that thread, if you actively choose to call someone by the name of the person with whom they've had a very contentious relationship, you're intentionally being an asshole. And because Jason has (had?) this public "nice guy" persona it makes it hard to believe Bethenny. He gets to be the "I don't know why you're upset? You're being crazy right now" guy precisely because Bethenny can also be abrasive. 

Assholery and passive aggressive BS --- yes, gaslighting --- no.  I've been called the name of someone I don't like.  It's a jerk move, but I don't think any of that falls into my definition of gaslighting.  Jason was able to act likable on their show and B has been shown to be nasty, rude and quite a jerk time and time again.  Plus, she has a penchant for hyperbole as it relates to her situation (i.e. homeless in Manhattan, bleeding to death, etc.)  So B is her own worst enemy.  When I heard Carole say it and the examples she used, I thought it made no sense and as a writer I would think she would know what the term meant and possibly its origin.  Anyway, I guess it's my opinion on what gaslighting is, so I'll leave it at that.  We can each have our own opinions and interpretations on what is going on.  Thanks for the examples, tho.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

I was raised  RC and we were taught that all/any type of premarital sex was bad/wrong. They didn't differentiate oral, anal or intercourse, it was all off limits before you were married. We were not taught that French kissing was bad though.

Carole repeated things Bethenny told her off camera on the show, as well as reading the page 6 article, so Yes, Carole is trashing Jason FOR Bethenny. This is how Bethenny is getting around not being allowed to talk about him, the divorce (in detail) or the custody agreement on the show. Oh and Carole called Jason names on last nights episode even though she has never met him or heard his side of the story, she is accepting everything Bethenny has told her as gospel. 

All I can say is it is not exactly "fair and balanced" representation.  Carole and Dorinda have never even met Jason let alone heard his account.  They certainly don't have to-but there comments regarding Jason weren't flattering or neutral. 

[ghoulina]

39 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I don't have a problem with Carole supporting or believing Bethenny but her, Carole, calling someone she has never met names on national TV is wrong IMO. And, once again, she has Bethenny's blessing in talking about Jason/the divorce/Bryn, which is tantamount to Bethenny talking about it on the show which is a way to gaslight Jason, which is just as bad as sending 160-170 emails over the course of several months, one act triggered the other act IMO. Both Jason and Bethenny are playing a dangerous game.

What name(s) did Carole call Jason? I'm asking because I genuinely don't remember. 

I don't really agree that what Carole is doing is as bad as what Jason is doing/has done. Jason began this kind of behavior before Beth and Carole were even friends. Up until this recent season, maybe a BIT last season, I really don't recall Jason being mentioned much at all. Again, I just really do not think Bethenny is getting Carole to trash him on TV because she can't. I think these are actual things going on in her life and it makes sense that the other girls would talk about it. They all talked about Mario. They've been talking about Tom. It's what they do. 

Gaslighting is defined as manipulating someone into questioning their own sanity. I do not think that is being done to Jason. At. All. I doubt he thinks his behavior is insane in the first place. 

12 minutes ago, bagatelle said:

She can have as many opinions as she wants -- but why devote whole scenes of her telling us, the viewing audience. It's her prattling that looks so bad. 

Well, I don't think it makes her look bad. But at any rate, wasn't it one scene? It seemed pretty organic to me - she and Dorinda aren't skiing, the article was just published, they talk about it.  But there's also a good chance Bravo wants someone to bring this shit up, because it's juicy gossip, but they know B can't. Just a guess. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by ghoulina

[Missmissie173]

12 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

How about Luann almost burning down the house trying to light the fireplace?

 

I hope the owners of that house weren't watching...or maybe they should have been, so they can label the igniter more clearly. Sheeesh!  

What is it with these chicks and fireplaces...didn't most of them grow up on the East Coast???  Almost burn down Dorinda's house and now a lodge.  Hide your lighter and matches if  this crew is coming over. Jeeesh. 

[Normades]

2 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Again, I just really do not think Bethenny is getting Carole to trash him on TV because she can't. I think these are actual things going on in her life and it makes sense that the other girls would talk about it. They all talked about Mario. They've been talking about Tom. It's what they do. 

Well, when I see LuAnn and Ramona talking about Jason and Bryn I might believe Carole isn't a mouthpiece.  I believe if anyone brought up the subject and said anything not sanctioned by B, there would be hell to pay.  

[ghoulina]

4 minutes ago, Normades said:

Well, when I see LuAnn and Ramona talking about Jason and Bryn I might believe Carole isn't a mouthpiece.  I believe if anyone brought up the subject and said anything not sanctioned by B, there would be hell to pay.  

Carole is the one she's closest to. So it makes sense, to me, that she would be the one to initiate conversations. That doesn't mean she's her mouthpiece. It just means she's the one B confides in. 

[zoeysmom]

21 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

When I made the gaslighting comment last month, it was after conversation in the Bethenny & Jason thread where we learned (I think from Carole when they were up in the Berkshires?) that Jason would call Bethenny "Bernadette." As I said in that thread, if you actively choose to call someone by the name of the person with whom they've had a very contentious relationship, you're intentionally being an asshole. And because Jason has (had?) this public "nice guy" persona it makes it hard to believe Bethenny. He gets to be the "I don't know why you're upset? You're being crazy right now" guy precisely because Bethenny can also be abrasive. 

Does gaslighting usually apply to people that are together and one uses gas lighting techniques to assert power over the other?  As in the gaslighter continually challenges the victim's perception of things to the point the person begins to doubt their own psyche and mental stability? Just saying someone is driving you nuts isn't exactly a gaslighting situation.   I don't think it applies either direction with these two-just my opinion.   

[Mozelle]

35 minutes ago, Normades said:

Assholery and passive aggressive BS --- yes, gaslighting --- no.  I've been called the name of someone I don't like.  It's a jerk move, but I don't think any of that falls into my definition of gaslighting.  Jason was able to act likable on their show and B has been shown to be nasty, rude and quite a jerk time and time again.  Plus, she has a penchant for hyperbole as it relates to her situation (i.e. homeless in Manhattan, bleeding to death, etc.)  So B is her own worst enemy.  When I heard Carole say it and the examples she used, I thought it made no sense and as a writer I would think she would know what the term meant and possibly its origin.  Anyway, I guess it's my opinion on what gaslighting is, so I'll leave it at that.  We can each have our own opinions and interpretations on what is going on.  Thanks for the examples, tho.

Right. We each have our views on what it is so why start with a definitive "gaslighting--no"? In any case, my view on it extends beyond Jason just being an asshole. To me, Jason is the quintessential "nice guy who really isn't" and that's where my determination of him gaslighting comes from. 

I mean, I haven't been a fan of Bethenny's for some years now, but I still choose to also see Jason as someone who knew* how to play the game around outsiders while being an unbearable ass behind closed doors. 

*Past tense because he's shown his ass in recent years.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Mozelle

[zoeysmom]

1 minute ago, Mozelle said:

iRight. We each have our views on what it is so why start with a definitive "gaslighting--no"? In any case, my view on it extends beyond Jason just being an asshole. To me, Jason is the quintessential "nice guy who really isn't" and that's where my determination of him gaslighting comes from. 

I mean, I haven't been a fan of Bethenny's for some years now, but I still choose to also see Jason as someone who knew* how to play the game around outsiders while being an unbearable ass behind closed doors. 

Past tense because he's shown his ass in recent years.

Gosh we have heard for five years what an asshole Jason is from Bethenny.  I think the nice guy ship sailed a long, long time ago.  If the guy was ever on a mission to win over public opinion his rocket failed to launch.  He has not made any public statements.  I think Carole misused the term.

[film noire]

Just now, zoeysmom said:

They certainly don't have to-but there comments regarding Jason weren't flattering or neutral. 

Yes.  And (just pragmatically) it would have been smarter to forego bashing Jason on television and just talk instead about Bethenny worrying about Bryn --there's no downside to that.

[WireWrap]

47 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

In what way(s)?

By allowing (encouraging) Carole to do the Jason bashing on the show for her. I really believe that if Bethenny told/asked Carole to not mention Jason/the divorce or Bryn/custody, she would stop immediately. But, here we are......................

20 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

What name(s) did Carole call Jason? I'm asking because I genuinely don't remember. 

I don't really agree that what Carole is doing is as bad as what Jason is doing/has done. Jason began this kind of behavior before Beth and Carole were even friends. Up until this recent season, maybe a BIT last season, I really don't recall Jason being mentioned much at all. Again, I just really do not think Bethenny is getting Carole to trash him on TV because she can't. I think these are actual things going on in her life and it makes sense that the other girls would talk about it. They all talked about Mario. They've been talking about Tom. It's what they do. 

Gaslighting is defined as manipulating someone into questioning their own sanity. I do not think that is being done to Jason. At. All. I doubt he thinks his behavior is insane in the first place. 

Well, I don't think it makes her look bad. But at any rate, wasn't it one scene? It seemed pretty organic to me - she and Dorinda aren't skiing, the article was just published, they talk about it.  But there's also a good chance Bravo wants someone to bring this shit up, because it's juicy gossip, but they know B can't. Just a guess. 

For one Carole called him "crazy". 

According to Carole, this behavior from Jason didn't start until after the divorce was final, so early last year, well after Carole/Bethenny became friends 3 seasons (4 years) ago.

Again, Carole is well aware that Bethenny is not allowed to talk about Jason, the divorce or Bryn/custody on this show, Bethenny's failed radio show or in interviews (even though she does) and there is no way Bethenny does not give her blessings or encourage Carole talking about him on this show. Which in turn, ticks him off/sets him off.

1 minute ago, film noire said:

Yes.  And (just pragmatically) it would have been smarter to forego bashing Jason on television and just talk instead about Bethenny worrying about Bryn --there's no downside to that.

She, Bethenny, isn't allowed to talk about Bryn in conjunction with the custody order or the divorce, so Carole needs to keep that child's name out of her mouth on the show. If Carole wants to bash him in private, go for it but stop doing it on the show.

[ShawnaLanne]

8 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

I live outside of a major city on the East Coast and my local Target stores do not carry any SK product, nor do my  liquor store or grocery stores.  I have only seen her products on tv.

I've never seen Ramona's. What's the label like. ... Also I currently live in the Midwest,  but I found it easily in California when I lived there too.  It must not play well in your market. 

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

I was raised  RC and we were taught that all/any type of premarital sex was bad/wrong. They didn't differentiate oral, anal or intercourse, it was all off limits before you were married. We were not taught that French kissing was bad though.

Carole repeated things Bethenny told her off camera on the show, as well as reading the page 6 article, so Yes, Carole is trashing Jason FOR Bethenny. This is how Bethenny is getting around not being allowed to talk about him, the divorce (in detail) or the custody agreement on the show. Oh and Carole called Jason names on last nights episode even though she has never met him or heard his side of the story, she is accepting everything Bethenny has told her as gospel. 

No. She said these were specific things she'd seen herself,  or exactly what was reported. Talking about actual,  factual incidents is not trashing. 

I am pretty sure Carole brought it up so Bethany didn't have to,  but that makes sense. 

[Wendy]

16 hours ago, bagatelle said:

Beth is very much responsible for what Carole is spewing.  That's her only job this season... to be a mouth piece for Beth, since Beth cannot do it herself. 

 

Nobody has control over anybody else, you can only control yourself. 

Carole is Bethenny's friend, I wouldn't expect anything less from her. Carole is not an unbias witness, she is watching all this through the lens of her friendship with Bethenny.  She has seen the e-mails, Bethenny has let her in some of what is going on, so she is upset on Bethenny's behalf. 

What did you expect was going to happen upon Carole reading that article? That she was going to say, "Oh, I am sure there are two sides of this story"? 

Of course not, that is not what friends do. If any of my friends were in Bethenny's situation, I would be supporting her, I guess that would make me her mouthpiece as well. 

[Mozelle]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

Gosh we have heard for five years what an asshole Jason is from Bethenny.  I think the nice guy ship sailed a long, long time ago.  If the guy was ever on a mission to win over public opinion his rocket failed to launch.  He has not made any public statements.  I think Carole misused the term.

Right, which is why I specified "past tense" because he's shown his ass in public in recent years. None of that, however, negates that prior to these recent behaviors he was playing the "nice guy" role to the hilt outside of the home. And if he's sending Bethenny harassing emails and texts but still trying to put on a public face of "All I want is for this to be over. All I want is to care for Bryn" that, too, is a form of gaslighting. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by Mozelle

[QuinnM]

Quote

Yes.  And (just pragmatically) it would have been smarter to forego bashing Jason on television and just talk instead about Bethenny worrying about Bryn --there's no downside to that.

Let's talk about how truly what Jason did was stupid.  He ramps this up.  He publicly goes after her verbally.  WHILE THEY AREW FILMING THE CURRENT SEASON.

Yeah, he's not thinking.

[ryebread]

39 minutes ago, Missmissie173 said:

Hide your lighter and matches if  this crew is coming over. Jeeesh. 

And your silk covered chairs.  And any rugs you don't want a dog to poop on. 

[film noire]

16 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

She, Bethenny, isn't allowed to talk about Bryn in conjunction with the custody order or the divorce, so Carole needs to keep that child's name out of her mouth on the show. 

Even in general terms, as Carole did last night? ("They're so connected -- makes "eye to eye" gesture.) 

Edited July 6, 2017 by film noire

[jennylauren123]

...and your walls. And your designer dresses...

[bagatelle]

47 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Well, I don't think it makes her look bad. But at any rate, wasn't it one scene? It seemed pretty organic to me - she and Dorinda aren't skiing, the article was just published, they talk about it.  But there's also a good chance Bravo wants someone to bring this shit up, because it's juicy gossip, but they know B can't. Just a guess. 

No, it's been a few scenes, which is why so many of us roll our eyes when Carole starts up. Here we go again.

[zoeysmom]

This is an odd group.  I must say I was enjoying them not fighting non-stop, although Ramona provided them with plenty of ammunition with her self-entitled behavior.  So the new rules are if something good is going in your life, it is arrogant to express your joy and happiness because it comes off as belittling?  I think that would extend to a certain non-stop promotion of Skinnygirl and all the comments Bethenny has made about how she is now rich and SKinnygirl's success.  Several outbursts and meltdowns over any intentional or unintentional mischaracterization of her business. Very flawed reasoning. 

Luann mentioned she was glad she was out of the game because she was in a relationship (married). This was after a pretty crusty bunch of sex talk.  Across from her were three people who have been in  relationships.  Dorinda five years, Carole and Adam three years, and Bethenny about the same amount of time Tom and Luann had known each other, flanking her was Tinsley who wants to get married and Sonja who just moved a guy in and has one stashed away in New jersey.  So who exactly was feeling belittled?  Ramona?  To me, it is kind of like saying to someone with teenagers (and your kids are in college) so glad I don't have to go through car pooling and learner's permits.  It is Luann's station in life.   It is not a place of superiority. Dorinda is such a raging twit with her "Tom  was fucking," well maid of dishonor what the hell does it have to do with not wanting to talk about anal sex or sex in general?  I guarantee you if Luann had said something about her sexual prowess pre-Tom two things would have happened-she would have been accused of one upping the others, and being in an open relationship with Tom.  Bethenny may have been trying to appease the sides but Luann wasn't just recently happy.  The Regency happened a year earlier.  Luann declared her forgiveness of Tom and never once said anything about being uncertain about marrying him.  Bethenny and the rest were trying to derail the marriage two weeks before the event.  Their uncertainty about the marriage doesn't mean Luann was uncertain.  Bethenny made it sound as if the catering trucks were ready to pull out of the parking lot.  Just wasn't so.

Lastly, Sonja and Luann weren't invited to Bethenny's wedding. Bethenny refused the invitation to Tom and Luann's engagement party.   It isn't exactly a state secret why Luann chose only to invite ungrateful Dorinda.  If you being happy for someone is contingent on getting a wedding invite maybe just maybe you are the one who is screwed up and you need to take a seat in the corner with Ramona.  Carole and Bethenny both made very pejorative comments about the idea of being invited to the wedding.  Sonja and Ramona after being told to zip it kept making public statements about the couple. 

Classic two shit faced Dorinda thinking she was speaking for the masses and no one backed her.  Dorinda is generally one of these people who believes people are laughing with her when they are laughing at her.   I must mention she is essentially pretty uneducated or maybe it is just a lack of natural intelligence.