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ElectricBoogaloo

S04.E02: Gettin' Hygge With It

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It's ridiculous. Maybe it's not stupid to not know what Black Mirror is but these people who are in the publishing industry in New York City don't know what a meme is? My 83 old father from Kentucky knows what a fucking meme is. Ugh, this show. 

 

Also, Lisa doesn't look any better or younger with the Heidi 'do than carrie Bradshaw did. 

Edited by luna1122
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1 minute ago, luna1122 said:

It's ridiculous. Maybe it's not stupid to not know what Black Mirror is but these people who are in the publishing industry in New York City don't know what a meme is? My 83 old father from Kentucky knows what a fucking meme is. Ugh, this show. 

Especially since both Jezebel and New York Magazine have been explicitly referenced on the show. You can barely go a week without one of those outlets mentioning some new meme.

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Kelsey & her doppelgäng-ing beaus!  Embarrassed to have missed that.  I do appreciate how that rings true.  I'm not saying ALL my exes look alike, but about 6 of 'em could be played by the same actor?

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This episode wasn't as strong as the premiere for me but still pretty entertaining. I laughed out loud when Lauren called out Kelsey's "doppelbanging". I hadn't even really noticed it myself but Kelsey sure does have a type! And I'm hope that's the last we ever see of Colin. I feel like he was definitely a grasping opportunist from the beginning. 

So far I'm enjoying Kelsey and Josh in "Liza Recovery" together. I'm probably one of the two people on here who don't object to them becoming a thing later down the line. But even if they don't become anything more than just really good friends; it's great to see Hillary and Nico get to work together, they definitely have spark. 

Liza's scene with Kelsey in Diana's closet was really sad to watch and even though I know those two will find their way back to each other it still hurt to see them at odds like that. 

And I agree with everyone's sentiments here that it is complete preposterous that Diana and Charles (and Liza?!) don't know what a meme is. I think the writer's quest to show the generational gap is between the 40 somethings and the Millennials is carried out in a very heavy handed way. Diana and Charles aren't time-travelers from another time period, like this isn't Outlander.

Being social media savvy has very little to do with age nowadays. Almost everyone and their grandmother has access to the internet. 

 

But overall a decent episode. I give it a B- 

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Liza knows exactly what a meme is. She gave a textbook perfect definition. Kelsey was annoyed because a) she's still mad at Liza, b) she thinks memes are both recent, and restricted to the internet, which they aren't, and c) she can't articulate the definition, while Liza can. 

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Liza had to read the definition off Wikipedia or something. She looked it up cuz she didn't really know. She articulated somebody else's words. It was all ridiculous. 

I have NO real prob with Josh and Kelsey. 

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Yeah, the two most unbelievable things for me in this episode were (1) that between three 40 year olds, not one of them knew what a meme was and (2) Diana would shop at JCPenney ever, let alone for an official work party.

The really stupid thing about the "old" people not knowing about memes is that they're not some new/hip/current thing. Internet memes have been a thing for at least 10+ years so Charles, Diana, and Liza didn't know about them when they were in their 30s either?

Also not very believable: having Richard and Liza make appetizers for the party. Why wouldn't Diana just hire a caterer? Having your boyfriend and your assistant making stuff in the kitchen during the party seems like something beneath a big company like Empirical and something that Diana would never want.

Sadly believable: Kelsey talking to Colin and taking him to a work party. This goes beyond being a trusting person. She is just stupid for even considering letting him back into her life (even if only as a friend) after what he did to her. Funny how she won't even entertain the idea of forgiving Liza but apparently Colin's betrayal was a forgivable offense until he started trying to sell his next book to Charles.

It made me sad that Kelsey thinks Liza's definition of a guy treasuring you and opening doors for you is old fashioned. Yeah, I guess having a fiance who cheats on you and a boyfriend who uses you to get his book edited and published is way better. Get some self esteem, girl! It's okay to date someone who doesn't treat you like shit.

When Lauren said that Kelsey has a type, I thought she was going to say she's into self involved narcissistic douchebags. To me, that's a more defining type she has than what they look like.

I know I shouldn't be so suspicious but something about Montana makes me worry that she's going to betray Maggie by doing something sneaky like stealing the concept for her women and power/vulnerable predators series.

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42 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The really stupid thing about the "old" people not knowing about memes is that they're not some new/hip/current thing. Internet memes have been a thing for at least 10+ years so Charles, Diana, and Liza didn't know about them when they were in their 30s either?

This is what aggravated me the most. I get not knowing the latest app, but memes? Come ON. They are not new by any stretch. Next thing you know they'll all be confounded by direct deposit.

45 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It made me sad that Kelsey thinks Liza's definition of a guy treasuring you and opening doors for you is old fashioned. Yeah, I guess having a fiance who cheats on you and a boyfriend who uses you to get his book edited and published is way better. Get some self esteem, girl! It's okay to date someone who doesn't treat you like shit.

I think most of Kelsey's attitude about this was that she knew Liza was right, but she was still so mad that she couldn't admit it. And Kelsey also wanted to prove Liza wrong, so she got stubborn about it. When you're really angry with someone, if you want them to be wrong about absolutely everything. It makes it easier to stay angry.

I like that Josh didn't want to chitchat on the street. That felt very realistic. I also like that he wasn't mean about it, he just couldn't for the time being.

The doppelbanger discussion was very funny. It also cracked me up when Colin said "uh-oh" when Kelsey took the whip. Very easy humor, but I can't help it.

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1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Internet memes have been a thing for at least 10+ years

Hell, I'd say 15 years. Internet memes have been a thing since THEY were 25. So yeah, that was ridiculous.

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Ha! Chock full of hoot and just a little bit of nanny! Although I laughed when Josh got up to talk to Kelsey but the washboard part of the song kept going! :D

I hated the whole not knowing what a meme was - come on! I get maybe not knowing what is maybe the most current meme trending but I can haz cheezborger had to be about 10 years ago! 

and doppelbanger made me snort laugh! 

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11 hours ago, luna1122 said:

It's ridiculous. Maybe it's not stupid to not know what Black Mirror is but these people who are in the publishing industry in New York City don't know what a meme is? My 83 old father from Kentucky knows what a fucking meme is. Ugh, this show. 

My 26 year old coworker asked me what a meme was.  I have a lot of friends who only somewhat use Facebook where they're not as plentiful as Instagram or Twitter.  At least, in my experience.  Facebook used is only based on who your friends are, and people are very private about it because you are required to use your real name.  Twitter or Instagram lends anonymity and you can follow thousands of people at a time.  

Also I know/guess memes have been around 'forever' but honestly until I started using Twitter wildly until the 2010s I didn't understand what they were.  I never knew the cheezburger ones.  I still don't understand that.   So anyways, I really liked the meme subplot because that felt real to me. I don't think there's any way my 60 year old parents know what memes are, personally.  

#Doppelbanger was definitely a meme, right?  Kelsey was wrong.

Something that I thought was really cute was that my 6 year old nephew was dabbing like crazy and my 37 year old brother asked me what a dab was.  I thought that was so, so cute.  When I posted it on Facebook, a 37 year old friend of mine asked me what it was, as well.  She also has a small kid.  I know some of these things, but that's only because I use Twitter like a fiend.  Otherwise I don't see how I would.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay

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7 hours ago, voiceover said:

Kelsey & her doppelgäng-ing beaus!  Embarrassed to have missed that.  I do appreciate how that rings true.  I'm not saying ALL my exes look alike, but about 6 of 'em could be played by the same actor?

My college roommate was going through old photographs of my high school boyfriends and she didn't understand that they were all pictures of different guys.

Doesn't Colin look EXACTLY like Malcolm Gets or Richard from Caroline in the City?????

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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I think you can know what a meme is without being able to give a definition of it. It's like porn: You know it when you see it. Heh.

31 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

#Doppelbanger was definitely a meme, right?  Kelsey was wrong.

I'm not sure that was a meme, actually. An image with a phrase posted once doesn't make it a meme.

Edited by dubbel zout
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2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

My 26 year old coworker asked me what a meme was.  I have a lot of friends who only somewhat use Facebook where they're not as plentiful as Instagram or Twitter.  At least, in my experience.  Facebook used is only based on who your friends are, and people are very private about it because you are required to use your real name.  Twitter or Instagram lends anonymity and you can follow thousands of people at a time.  

Also I know/guess memes have been around 'forever' but honestly until I started using Twitter wildly until the 2010s I didn't understand what they were.  I never knew the cheezburger ones.  I still don't understand that.   So anyways, I really liked the meme subplot because that felt real to me. I don't think there's any way my 60 year old parents know what memes are, personally.  

#Doppelbanger was definitely a meme, right?  Kelsey was wrong.

Something that I thought was really cute was that my 6 year old nephew was dabbing like crazy and my 37 year old brother asked me what a dab was.  I thought that was so, so cute.  When I posted it on Facebook, a 37 year old friend of mine asked me what it was, as well.  She also has a small kid.  I know some of these things, but that's only because I use Twitter like a fiend.  Otherwise I don't see how I would.

Kelsey was irritated with Liza's very technical description of a meme as well as her use of older pre-Internet examples. It made me wonder if Kelsey would have been completely ignorant about earlier pre-Internet memes if Kelsey was Black or a person of color. Younger is a very White show and publishing is a very White industry. However, the Internet isn't, especially when it comes to memes, trends, and things that go viral. On fleek, dabbing, and the mannequin challenge are very much things that come from Black Twitter. Dragging Melania after her partially plagiarized convention speech--also Black Twitter. Salt Bae was a huge beneficiary of Black Twitter. So as much as Kelsey was mad at Liza for not knowing things millennials are supposed to know, Kelsey is completely ignorant about where some of the memes that she's conversant in come from. Additionally, some of the references used by Black Twitter are old and deep. In fact, older than the tweeters who use them. I'm not expecting Younger to get into this subject because ummm....Darren Star. His handling of race on Sex and the City was hilariously incompetent.

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26 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Kelsey was irritated with Liza's very technical description of a meme as well as her use of older pre-Internet examples. It made me wonder if Kelsey would have been completely ignorant about earlier pre-Internet memes if Kelsey was Black or a person of color. Younger is a very White show and publishing is a very White industry. However, the Internet isn't, especially when it comes to memes, trends, and things that go viral.

I guarantee you that Kelsey wouldn't have blinked twice at Liza's examples last season, pre-secret-knowledge.  That's what the issue is: Kelsey's feelings of betrayal.

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Lauren is a jerk. She kicked her friend out of her house with no warning and then she has the huevos to be nosy about Kelsey's lodgings. 

OMG! Kelsey the dominatrix. LOL

Is this show determined to make Gen Xers look as clueless about anything to do with social media, technology, etc? Ugh. 

Kelsey, date a guy who is nice. Opening doors or walking on the outside of the sidewalk is being a gentleman and having manners.

I'd like to see Kelsey's adjustment from living in Manhattan to Brooklyn. In previous seasons, they made it seem like Siberia. 

I prefer Duran Duran's version of "Ordinary World." Takes me back to college.

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Shows like Younger, and new movies and shows coming out today have this horrible habit of taking classic 80s and 90s songs and having some young woman sing them.  It happens all of the time.  It drives me nuts.  Guess music producers don't want to pay for the rights for the real song, but don't the covering artists have to, anyway?   I guess I'm getting up there.

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47 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Guess music producers don't want to pay for the rights for the real song, but don't the covering artists have to, anyway?

Yes, but royalty fees are way cheaper than paying full licensing fees to use the real song.

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5 hours ago, slaterain said:

Ha! Chock full of hoot and just a little bit of nanny! Although I laughed when Josh got up to talk to Kelsey but the washboard part of the song kept going! :D

And he was barefoot

Ugh, indeed!

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3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Kelsey was irritated with Liza's very technical description of a meme as well as her use of older pre-Internet examples. It made me wonder if Kelsey would have been completely ignorant about earlier pre-Internet memes if Kelsey was Black or a person of color. Younger is a very White show and publishing is a very White industry. However, the Internet isn't, especially when it comes to memes, trends, and things that go viral. On fleek, dabbing, and the mannequin challenge are very much things that come from Black Twitter. Dragging Melania after her partially plagiarized convention speech--also Black Twitter. Salt Bae was a huge beneficiary of Black Twitter. So as much as Kelsey was mad at Liza for not knowing things millennials are supposed to know, Kelsey is completely ignorant about where some of the memes that she's conversant in come from. Additionally, some of the references used by Black Twitter are old and deep. In fact, older than the tweeters who use them. I'm not expecting Younger to get into this subject because ummm....Darren Star. His handling of race on Sex and the City was hilariously incompetent.

I am around Liza's age and I don't think I understood anything in your post. This is probably not helped by the fact that I am not on Twitter or any other social media and I am also not American. I'd probably understand more of it if I was active on social media so I'd say that it's not so much my age that is the problem in understanding memes, trends and things that go viral.

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I think it's less ridiculous that 40 something's don't know about memes and social media, than 40 something's in publishing wouldn't know about memes and social media. 

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10 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I have NO real prob with Josh and Kelsey. 

Neither do I. They have decent chemistry and they're cute together. I think a friends-becoming-more thing could be done well with them. 

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Something that I thought was really cute was that my 6 year old nephew was dabbing like crazy and my 37 year old brother asked me what a dab was.  I thought that was so, so cute.  When I posted it on Facebook, a 37 year old friend of mine asked me what it was, as well.  She also has a small kid.  I know some of these things, but that's only because I use Twitter like a fiend.  Otherwise I don't see how I would.

Which is funny because I am a twitter fiend but I have never seen dabbing or anything dabbing-related on twitter - I know what it is from my 37-year-old parent friends on Facebook. I think it's all about the circles you move in, whatever the platform, hence:

47 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I think it's less ridiculous that 40 something's don't know about memes and social media, than 40 something's in publishing wouldn't know about memes and social media. 

Yep. And it feels like it's worse this season. Millennial has looked at signing YouTube stars and Social Media princesses and books based on Twitter accounts (I think - I can't find it in episode descriptions but I seem to remember something about oral sex that had the old folks scandalised). I could almost believe they didn't know at the start of the series but both Charles and Diana take an interest in the goings-on of the Millennial imprint, so by now you'd think they'd be well-versed. 

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13 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

I could almost believe they didn't know at the start of the series but both Charles and Diana take an interest in the goings-on of the Millennial imprint, so by now you'd think they'd be well-versed.

Charles not knowing stuff I can sort of buy because he's the publisher—he's on the money side. He really only needs to trust that his staff knows something is big/up and coming/etc., and worth pursuing. Diana, on the other hand, is the head of marketing. She doesn't need to have it all at her fingertips—again, that's part of what her staff does—but she shows a shocking lack of even basic tech/pop culture knowledge.

I know most of this is to point out the difference between the olds and the kids, but it'd be nice if the olds were given a bit more credit. Especially since they're in a profession that's completely saturated with this stuff.

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If Liza graduated from Dartmouth in 1996 or so, she would have had a student email account and access to the internet. On top of that, she's got a teenaged daughter.

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44 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Did not even realize that the show used the names of "Charles and Diana" (like Princess of Wales) until right now.

We should've known from the start that pairing was doomed. 

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9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Shows like Younger, and new movies and shows coming out today have this horrible habit of taking classic 80s and 90s songs and having some young woman sing them.  It happens all of the time.  It drives me nuts.  Guess music producers don't want to pay for the rights for the real song, but don't the covering artists have to, anyway?   I guess I'm getting up there.

The "Ordinary World" used in the episode is Joy Williams's version. It sounded like the version I have, which was recorded a few years ago when she was partnered with with John Paul White in the now-disbanded Civil Wars. They both have gone on to further develop their solo careers. John Paul White is FANTASTIC.

Below is the version I found online. It's very soft. This song isn't a very good showcase of her talent. Her work during the Civil Wars-era is wonderful. I don't like her music now; it's too pop-y.

Nerd rant over.

Edited by bilgistic
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6 hours ago, paulvdb said:

I am around Liza's age and I don't think I understood anything in your post. This is probably not helped by the fact that I am not on Twitter or any other social media and I am also not American. I'd probably understand more of it if I was active on social media so I'd say that it's not so much my age that is the problem in understanding memes, trends and things that go viral.

My very convoluted point is that Kelsey was having issues understanding all of Liza's old pre-internet examples of memes. However, a decent proportion of memes that go viral are created by people of color, in particular Black Twitter. My experience is that a decent amount of the online discourse between Black people online is quite conversant in issues, trends, and memes from 30, 40, 50, 60+ years ago. I don't know that it would be all that credible for Kelsey to be clueless about these older references if she were a Black or Latina character.

Another example might be the viral dismissal "Bye Felicia." When that started making the rounds, Friday was 20 years old. Do you think the Black and Latinx kids who resurrected it had no clue where it came from? No. But I bet the Kelseys who used it had no clue where it came from. By the time it got to the Real Housewives, it was stone dead.

I agree with everyone above about how it is completely ridiculous that Diana, the head of marketing, is as clueless as they write her.

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14 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Shows like Younger, and new movies and shows coming out today have this horrible habit of taking classic 80s and 90s songs and having some young woman sing them.  It happens all of the time.  It drives me nuts.  Guess music producers don't want to pay for the rights for the real song, but don't the covering artists have to, anyway?   I guess I'm getting up there.

See also: two seasons of Grey's Anatomy where I suffered through whiny emo covers of 80s/90s songs every fucking week. It made me want to cut someone.

9 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Charles not knowing stuff I can sort of buy because he's the publisher—he's on the money side. He really only needs to trust that his staff knows something is big/up and coming/etc., and worth pursuing. Diana, on the other hand, is the head of marketing. She doesn't need to have it all at her fingertips—again, that's part of what her staff does—but she shows a shocking lack of even basic tech/pop culture knowledge.

I know most of this is to point out the difference between the olds and the kids, but it'd be nice if the olds were given a bit more credit. Especially since they're in a profession that's completely saturated with this stuff.

The other reason it seems absurd to me that Charles is so clueless is that he has two kids. Living with kids who are still in school is what forces a lot of adults to be aware of current trends whether it's fidget spinners, rainbow loom bracelets, silly bandz, pogs, etc. (the same goes for Liza since her daughter is a teenager). He and Diana must have some clue if they know about things like hygge (which everyone posts about on FB every damn winter).

19 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

This is what aggravated me the most. I get not knowing the latest app, but memes? Come ON. They are not new by any stretch. Next thing you know they'll all be confounded by direct deposit.

Exactly! Or Uber. Or running water. Or those new fangled cordless tellyphones that have computers inside them.

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Until about a month or so ago, I thought a meme was pronounced "Mimi" and if you asked me what one was, I'd probably say "a moving picture kind of thing". 

My husband is a smart, hard working man who has worked in the same industry for over 30 years. He wouldn't know how to turn on a computer/tablet or check an email or anything else that has to do with the Internet.  He simply has no interest, every once in a while he'll ask me to Google something but other than that he hates everything about the Internet.  I just don't think its so far fetched that some people don't know these things and just don't care to learn about them. 

13 hours ago, OoogleEyes said:

And he was barefoot

Ugh, indeed!

What's wrong with being barefoot? 

Edited to say that I also have no idea what the hell dabbing is.  I use a dab of toothpaste or a dab of butter, other than that, no clue.  And don't care. 

Edited by Maharincess
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2 hours ago, Maharincess said:

My husband is a smart, hard working man who has worked in the same industry for over 30 years. He wouldn't know how to turn on a computer/tablet or check an email or anything else that has to do with the Internet.  He simply has no interest, every once in a while he'll ask me to Google something but other than that he hates everything about the Internet.  I just don't think its so far fetched that some people don't know these things and just don't care to learn about them. 

Sure, some people don't, and that's fine. But if knowing how to utilize trends and technology is part of your job, like it is for Diana, being completely out of the loop is absurd. Should she know every single up to the minute trend? No. But anything that has staying power in popular culture is something she should be aware of. Having her assistant to the legwork is one thing, being dependent on her assistant to understand marketing trends on her behalf is a great way to show that she's disposable. So either Diana is a brilliant woman and a force to be reckoned with, or she's a relic from a bygone age that bogs the company down with her outdated methods. 

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I think you can know what a meme is without being able to give a definition of it. It's like porn: You know it when you see it. Heh.

I was going to say that a meme is like irony--hard to define but you know it when you see it. Porn, irony, potato, potahto!

 

Do we know how old Diana is supposed to be? She and Charles read older to me than (real, not-millennial) Liza, like closer to 50, which may explain why they seem even more clueless than she? (Though you're right--if you're in publishing you should be on top of this stuff. But that's why you hire millennials.)

 

Side note: I really appreciate how the show treats Kelsey as capable and smart and not a stereotypical entitled twentysomething  (normal drunken foibles notwithstanding). Even Diana treats her like an equal.

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4 hours ago, Maharincess said:

What's wrong with being barefoot? 

He was in his own apartment. He can be whatever he wants, IMO.

2 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

So either Diana is a brilliant woman and a force to be reckoned with, or she's a relic from a bygone age that bogs the company down with her outdated methods. 

Miriam Shor is criminally underused. I wish they'd do more with her than humiliate her for the joke or plot point they're trying to make.

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I guess Diana's not taking the parrot to work anymore? Glad she still has Richard. He seems like a nice dude.

Don't see the big deal about being barefoot in one's own apartment.

If they do have K and J get together, it will need to be a very slow burn. Josh, Liza and Kelsey are all still hurting.

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If J and K don't get together, what is the point of having him still be on the show?  

There is no way Liza looks 26. Early 30's maybe. 

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I agree with what everyone has said about meme's. I'm 41 and work in marketing and I know what memes are. My colleague is 45/46 and he will start meme wars all the time via e-mail. So the idea that two people in marketing and publishing in Manhattan are missing out on major parts of pop culture is just silly.

Also, Liza had a younger daughter so she'd have absorbed some of this stuff. My son is only 9 and I absorb quite a bit from him already. Dabbing for example. Although I did call it "dubbing" in front of some college students and was quickly corrected and laughed at.

I still don't quite get Kelsey's level of anger. I really don't. Especially when you really think about Liza's reasons. And that if Kelsey really really thought about it, there were enough hints there all along and she was choosing to ignore them. 

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5 minutes ago, EdnasEdibles said:

And that if Kelsey really really thought about it, there were enough hints there all along and she was choosing to ignore them. 

At the time, Kelsey had no reason to think Liza was lying. Hindsight is always 20/20.

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"Nostalgic snow? What is that, old snow? Isn't that water?" made me laugh.

I kinda like Kelsey and Josh together

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38 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

At the time, Kelsey had no reason to think Liza was lying. Hindsight is always 20/20.

I just think age is so weird. I worked with this woman who claimed she was 33. She might have been? A few of us kind of doubted it though. I mean, everyone ages differently but she had eye wrinkles and forehead wrinkles and some of her pop culture memories were off the timeline of someone in their early 30s. But this was in television news and she was on camera so I understood why she was lying about her age - if she was.  I wasn't close friends with her so there would have been no feelings of deep betrayal. But it was kind of a joke for others "Is Dana turning 33 again this year?" when the happy hour announcement would go out . 

It's true that she had no reason to think she was lying but it's Manhattan and women there are kind of image conscious. I think the untrimmed bush (so gross that I mention this), the lack of social media awareness and presence, the lack of knowledge about any of the pop culture references of her age group . . . it all would have made me as Kelsey suspect that Liza was shaving a year or two off of her age. 

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Another great episode. I also don’t get Kelsey’s level of anger.  Especially since She forgave Colin and he is the worst.  As for Kelsey and Josh...if something happens without Liza’s blessing it will be hard for me to like either one of them again...I am not on board with friends sleeping with the same people...

 

I also also think that part of Kelsey being there is revenge based. Let’s be real...this wasn’t her only option..

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40 minutes ago, dmc said:

Another great episode. I also don’t get Kelsey’s level of anger.  Especially since She forgave Colin and he is the worst.  As for Kelsey and Josh...if something happens without Liza’s blessing it will be hard for me to like either one of them again...I am not on board with friends sleeping with the same people...

 

I also also think that part of Kelsey being there is revenge based. Let’s be real...this wasn’t her only option..

Kelsey doesn't give two shits about her doppelbangers, so she basically keeps them around for sex and out of habit. Hell, Thad died and she was more upset about (temporarily) losing Liza as a friend and colleague than she was about his death. Not to say that I blame her. But she clearly loves Liza more deeply and truly than she ever has a romantic partner, so the betrayal goes deeper and is harder to forgive/recover from. 

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Most women I know wax 'down there' so I don't get why Liza had never thought to do that, at least during swimsuit season. Sorry for the TMI. LOL

I've known people who will always be youthful both in look and demeanor. I've also know people who, I swear, were born 60.

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On 7/6/2017 at 9:27 AM, slaterain said:

I hated the whole not knowing what a meme was - come on! I get maybe not knowing what is maybe the most current meme trending but I can haz cheezborger had to be about 10 years ago!

It also was a book! (I checked, published in 2008 by a Penguin imprint.)

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19 hours ago, TheNewJanBrady said:

Do we know how old Diana is supposed to be? She and Charles read older to me than (real, not-millennial) Liza, like closer to 50, which may explain why they seem even more clueless than she? (Though you're right--if you're in publishing you should be on top of this stuff. But that's why you hire millennials.)

I just re-watched the pilot and they identify Diana as "43 and divorced."

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