Fix The Show

[Daisy]

15 hours ago, MissEwa said:

To me it did the opposite, because in both seasons it was one competitor who was getting a clear winner/hero edit vs. someone we'd seen on screen hardly at all. Devon got a little more screentime than Angela but in both cases you knew they weren't making F3 over Ben/Wendell. 

I was thrilled Wendell won and he would have been out if not for the fire-making challenge, but I still hate the idea of it. It also lowers the stakes of the F4 immunity challenge - if you feel confident in your firemaking you're actually better off losing that now. I do think it can produce more interesting results - and sometimes better ones - but for me these wins will always have a feint asterisk next to them. 

 

Same with redemption islands. (so i'll be totally fair here). 
once you get voted out, you should be gone. g-o-n-e. no more game for you.

[Coco88]

Why is the fire-making challenge so much more unfair than a hidden immunity idol?  Both can keep a person who otherwise would have been voted out.  Hell an idol can get out someone who has received no votes.  Cirie, sniff.

If the objective is to go back to the purity where the winner survives on the basis of never (until the FTC) receiving the most votes, let’s get rid of all the idols 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Coco88

[ProfCrash]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 4:44 PM, Coco88 said:

Why is the fire-making challenge so much more unfair than a hidden immunity idol?  Both can keep a person who otherwise would have been voted out.  Hell an idol can get out someone who has received no votes.  Cirie, sniff.

If the objective is to go back to the purity where the winner survives on the basis of never (until the FTC) receiving the most votes, let’s get rid of all the idols 

I think that the hidden idol is far over played. I have suggested that there be one per camp and that it is not put back into play once it has been used. That would mean 3-4 hidden idols a season and that is it. The hidden idol at least involves someone looking for it and finding it. It involves how the player chooses to use it, keep it secret or tell other. Use it for themselves or play it on someone else. There is far more strategic value to the hidden idols then make a fire.

But the hidden idol was something added by Production in order to protect their favorite players and the power increases in the hidden idol seem to have appeared at times to protect their favorites (like Tony). I remember it not being particularly well received when it was introduced. Even today people complain about the number of idols and advantages.

[Daisy]

On 6/9/2018 at 4:44 PM, Coco88 said:

Why is the fire-making challenge so much more unfair than a hidden immunity idol?  Both can keep a person who otherwise would have been voted out.  Hell an idol can get out someone who has received no votes.  Cirie, sniff.

If the objective is to go back to the purity where the winner survives on the basis of never (until the FTC) receiving the most votes, let’s get rid of all the idols 

 

that will never, ever make me not mad. Cirie got hosed, and i think if the answer is (to her non-vote out, let's remember she was the only person not to have received a vote, yet she had to go home) was "Well she could have found an idol" i think there is a big problem. there shouldn't be several idols + an advantage in play to the point that everyone is safe. (and what would have happened if somehow Cirie had won immunity and everyone was protected? they just go home? 

 

I would be more than happy if they got rid of the idol period. or - 

 

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I think that the hidden idol is far over played. I have suggested that there be one per camp and that it is not put back into play once it has been used. That would mean 3-4 hidden idols a season and that is it. The hidden idol at least involves someone looking for it and finding it. It involves how the player chooses to use it, keep it secret or tell other. Use it for themselves or play it on someone else. There is far more strategic value to the hidden idols then make a fire.

But the hidden idol was something added by Production in order to protect their favorite players and the power increases in the hidden idol seem to have appeared at times to protect their favorites (like Tony). I remember it not being particularly well received when it was introduced. Even today people complain about the number of idols and advantages.

 

this. I could even deal with 3. 
2 pre merge, 1 post. but even that screams like too much

And it was. like people weren't happy when it came in Season 11 (officially). 
then of course the broken-ness of it in 12-13 (14... or 14 was when it was changed) + the "Tyler Perry Idol" season

then it was very Oprah that everyone "found" an idol. 

[Coco88]

How about a rule that says a player can only use an idol once during a season.  If they find another idol it will be powerless for them and they have leave it where they found it.  This way a player isn’t relying on finding idols to get them through the game.

[ratgirlagogo]

On 6/6/2018 at 11:40 PM, LadyChatts said:

I never finished Vanuatu and just got through the car reward challenge (aka the car curse challenge) and it made me realize that Ghost Island missed the ultimate opportunity in reversing a curse by not bringing back the car reward and everyone whose downfall it led to.  I know they haven't had a sponsor in many years, but it would have been a fun blast from the past.  

OMG you are so right!  I forgot all about the car curse, which was the FIRST of the Survivor curses!  Now I'm totally pissed they didn't do it.

[simplyme]

On 6/7/2018 at 12:26 AM, Nashville said:

Or... women with any desire to be the least bit competitive in the idol-finding process should, you know, opt in to the firewood-gathering and other out-of-camp activities which yield greater opportunities to find idols/clues.  There’s absolutely zero gender specificity about such associated chores; the only limiting factor is personal initiative.

In a similar vein: please point out to me exactly which part of the process of making fire carries any gender bias whatsoever, else I’m compelled to call complete and total bullshit.  The only persons “favored” by the firemaking challenge are the contestants who bothered to learn how to make fire - be they male, female, or freaking blue emu.  

Firemaking has been an integral symbolic AND functional component of Survivor since S1Ep1, both at camp and in competitions - so IMHO if you know you’re going on Survivor and STILL step off that boat without having bothered to learn what you already know will be one of the most significant fundamental skills you will need in the game, then by Burnett you DESERVE to get your ass booted ASAFP.

While I agree in theory, I believe the make up of the cast influences whether a female castaway can opt-in to fire-wood and food-gathering the same way a male castaway would without being viewed as aggressive or with suspicion. With a number of the casts we've seen, women who go into the woods are going to be more likely to be targeted for being a threat. I also think that culturally, women are still generally expected to be more social than men, so I expect a man gets more chances to wander off alone whereas a woman who isn't with someone is considered more suspicious.

Also, the provider and fire tender role is sometimes claimed by a type A alpha male (occasionally two). A good way to make that person feel like you are trying to get rid of them or make them unnecessary is to get up early and get the fire started for them. Also why no one is practicing making fire... If people see that any time before final four, you better have a good reason for wasting flint to practice something that you don't normally do or people are going to get paranoid.

So you may know how to make fire before you get there, but not have a chance to do it for extended periods without socially stepping on toes. That's a disadvantage.

I think these are all subtle, subconscious things and they clearly don't apply to everyone, but I think they're certainly common enough ingrained attitudes that it does still make idol-hunting and fire-making harder to pull off as often for women (and some males.)

That said, I have no idea why so many contestants don't learn to make fire before going on Survivor except a) they aren't really fans of the show or b) they're bleeping idiots.

[kikaha]

On 6/7/2018 at 12:26 AM, Nashville said:

Or... women with any desire to be the least bit competitive in the idol-finding process should, you know, opt in to the firewood-gathering and other out-of-camp activities which yield greater opportunities to find idols/clues. 

 

The great Kelley Wentworth did exactly that in season 31.  She even stacked up piles of firewood where she was searching, as her cover if any suspicious tribemates came looking.  She found the clue, grabbed the idol during the IC right under everyone's noses, and set the stage for one of the best performances ever, winner or not. 

Man that was a great season.  Jeremy played nearly perfectly, and so did Kelley.  Only letdown is that she got booted at F4.  I would have loved to see the two of them in finals

[OutOfTheQuestion]

As we're down to seven Davids and seven Goliaths, it occurred to me that a fun twist in a situation like this would be to have another swap, but switch everyone back to their original tribes.  Both tribes have an even number, and it would be interesting to see if old alliances would stick together, or if it would be a freeforall based on new alliances as some people would now be playing for new alliances from the other tribe.

[Eolivet]

Honestly, I think every contestant should be given a pair of shorts, short sleeve shirt, long pants, long sleeve shirt, a sweater or jacket, underwear, socks, and a bathing suit. Send everyone out with the same clothing and give them options. I have no problem with people being a bit cold, I don't think anyone has ever gotten frost bite or near frost bite, during Survivor. The cold at night leads to the huddle in the shelter and that huddle tends to provide information about who is allied with who. Boston Rob said that you would share your jacket, as a blanket, with your alliance mate. Coach told a story where he didn't share his jacket, he was using it as a pillow, with another player who was cold because they were not aligned and Coach wanted his head to be comfortable.

Bringing this over from the episode thread, as my response didn't really seem entirely that episode-related.

But I think they could fix this problem based on what they did on Survivor New Zealand this year (which I found really helpful). There was a yellow tribe and a blue tribe, and they clearly had contestants pack/gave them shades of yellow clothing and blue clothing. When they were on the yellow tribe, they wore their yellow stuff -- when they were swapped to the blue tribe, they wore blue stuff. It was such a handy visual guide about who was on what tribe (remember last year when we were like "NuNaviti? NunuMalolo?") At the merge, they just wore whatever. (and several of them had jackets, too!) No idea what they'd do with the green tribe -- maybe production could have a secret stash of green stuff they could hand out, if necessary.

I think the show is definitely still dressing them in tribe colors, or they were last year (I remember Donathan's orange-striped shirt, Laurel's reddish dress, and Wendell wore a lot of blue for Naviti purple). Why not double their wardrobe allotment? Easy visual guide, plus then they can wear all their "wrong-colored" clothes underneath when they sleep at night.

But this would also eliminate the disparity of some people getting more clothing than others if they all had two sets.

[Nashville]

School uniform time!  Fit EVERYONE for khakis (long pants or shorts, whatever) and same-colored team shirts - red for one tribe, blue for another, etc.  Me, I think it’d be great to watch the State Farm team beat the shit outta Best Buy.  ;>

[ProfCrash]

I don't think anyone wants uniforms. I don't think that it is fair that some people are allowed long sleeves and long pants and others are not. The reality is that they are all facing the same conditions and should have similar clothing options. So instead of giving the women who are deemed most attractive by Production shorts and t-shirts and the women who are deemed less attractive long sleeves and pants, give all of them the choice so they can wear what they want based on the conditions. (shrugs)

[Eolivet]

I mean, I get that they want the contestants to look shipwrecked. To me, the solution is more clothes for everyone vs different clothes. On
Australian Survivor, too (which granted goes longer than here), it seemed like they had some variety. Shipwrecked is fine, but people get modern-day shipwrecked with suitcases these days (think of LOST), so having more options is fine with me.

Put it this way, I did not look at folks on either international Survivor and go, "Well, clearly their wins are invalid because they had more clothes to choose from."

I also think it's ironic that it's Angelina that complained about not having a jacket -- she has the most clothes of anyone. I've seen her in a blue flowered dress, gray yoga pants, a gray sweater (that she may have worn as a halter top, either that or she has an additional halter top), a yellow and white striped top and a blue tank top that might be her undergarment. It's like she has a whole closet out there, and she still wants a jacket.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Eolivet

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't think anyone wants uniforms.

I was exaggerating for comedic effect - or I was trying to, at least.  :)

Communication-wise, I appear to have been having a bad-hair day.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Nashville

[KimberStormer]

As far as the clothes go, here's my opinion, as someone who has worked in the fashion industry and in theatrical costumes.

When you are designing costumes for characters you need to assume that everyone in the audience has prosopagnosia and cannot distinguish people's faces.  (Not enough shows do this, but anyway, it's good to.)  Everyone should be easily identifiable at a distance and ideally rather abstracted.  So for example we can understand this art quite easily.  The thing about people choosing their own clothes: this will absolutely not happen.  Everyone will be wearing the same thing, in blacks and neutrals, it will be impossible.  Survivor is already a sea of blandly attractive white faces most of the time, and it will only be worse if they bring whatever they want.  Oh, you say, but if you give people free reign to express themselves with fashion their individual personalities will shine through!  I am telling you, absolutely not.  I worked with some very rich and stylish ladies who bought the latest fashions by Prada, Chanel etc.  They would bring in a dress with some amazing design detail, an unusual hem shape or a crazy ruffle across the back, and they would tell me: please remove this detail, straighten the hem, take off the ruffle.  And when I did they'd be left with a dress that looked exactly like any other dress, only it cost ten times as much because of the design they'd removed.  People are conformist by nature, that is why fashion, broadly defined, exists: we all kind of wear the same things at the same time as people in our community, so it's easy to pick out the outfits of the 80s, the 20s, the 1890s, etc.  And on Survivor the conformist impulse is only stronger, since standing out is never good until FTC: you want to be a part of the tribe, not the tall poppy whose head will get lopped off.  Elizabeth is probably thrilled with her cowgirl hat and feels it captures her personality.  There is a 0.1% chance she would bring it of her own accord.  She's too smart to want to be so easily distinguished from the rest of the group.

So I think it's just necessary for the producers to pick their clothes, personally, and that they dress them as heterogenously as they can get away with.  But it is definitely baloney that some people get more clothes than others, when it can have a real effect on their game.  What's the solution?  My feeling is they just need to give people more layers, more options to put on.  I feel like they used to be better at this, especially around season 20ish; I remember Erinn and Sierra having a few things to work with and the girls in HvV did too -- there was some kind of military theme and lots of pants and jackets.  I got this from Sucks long ago, showing all the ways that Parvati put together an outfit with the pieces she had to work with, sort of like a magazine spread about stretching your budget:

 

I think that's a good way to go, give them a few things, including something long-sleeved for everyone, but definitely not all the same things.

[MissEwa]

@KimberStormer That is great analysis - thank you! I think some combination of letting them pick and show interference is really the only way, but it needs to be fair.

Also it is ridiculous that Parvati somehow manages to look put-together in every single one of those photos, and not like a hobo who is dressing themselves out of the same sack full of clothes every day for six weeks. 

[KimberStormer]

Helps when you have those abs!  Years of Pilates and I can't manage it (; _ ; )

[ByaNose]

It is interesting to see what they start with and how they change their outfits as the season goes on. I remember Laurel from Ghost Island almost had a long dress with leggings on. Then she was also wearing an eternity scarf all season is another layer. Some woman are either are forced to wear bikinis or they prefer it from what I can tell. Natalie wore a summer dress all season. I doubt she was asked would you a wear a bikini? Maybe, she was but I doubt it. The first few seasons of Survivor were pretty much normal clothes and then it became more color coded and a uniform type. When it started I don’t really recall?! I’ve been watching since Episode1 but when normal to staged clothes began is all a blur to me.  

[Nashville]

A few notes about Edge of Extinction I wanted to throw in before they got marooned in a forgotten episode thread....

——————————————

I heartily disliked this season because its inaugural introduction of EoE was inherently flawed on multiple points:

1. The attempt to drum up some kind of Big Decision Drama on the part of each evictee was already played out when Keith came to the EoE Crossroads.  Of course every player is going to choose the Return option, for the simple reason they have absolutely no idea what they’re choosing - other than it still gets them a shot at the million bucks, that is.
2. EoE was hyped throughout the season as a place of isolation, loneliness, despair, and a hard scratch for existence - Survivor’s Island of Misfit Toys, if you will - but while it may have started out that way, that’s not how it ended up.  Around/about the Julia or David eviction, there was a very specific shift in the season’s dynamic; more than half the season’s participants were now on EoE, which meant we were suddenly back in the position of having two tribes, Vata and Sail Island.  Big differences between the two, though, in that (a) the isolation and loneliness formerly on EoE will now increasingly shift to Vata, and (b) the Sail Island group has unfettered access to the people who will choose the season’s winner - basically, Production-sanctioned access to 24/7 jury tampering.  In effect, Vata slowly morphs into EoE - and its inhabitants’ reward for playing a successful “classic” Survivor game is increased segregation and ostracism (more in a sec), while the classic Survivor failures are rewarded with lessened workload (MUCH fewer comps) and increased Jury access.
3. Another side-effect of this shift in dynamic: the successful Classic Survivor player is now socially penalized for their success, while the unsuccessful Classic Survivor player/evictee is rewarded for their failure.  We saw this ostracism born of segregation in both Gavin’s “out of the game” gaffe at FTC andWarthog’s (and the rest of the Jury’s) immediate negative response.  Gavin can (or should, anyway) be forgiven his faux pas, because he was one of only two players this entire season (himself and Julie) who never set foot on Sail Island - and why?  Because they never got voted off! - but the Jury’s contrarian response was to chastise Gavin for what they perceived as his denigration of the EoE gameplay he never had the opportunity to see.  In effect, Gavin got penalized for never losing - and that’s some fucked-up shit right there.  😞 
4. In terms of giving We the Viewers a complete holistic view of the gameplay in progress, the EoE optics sucked mightily.  After David’s eviction more than half the players (and therefore half the gaming strategy, presumably) were going on at  EoE - but what did we get?  Long shots of gelatin-teared eyes staring soulfully out to sea, and “Dear Me: you do really suck that bad at this game, but you shouldn’t feel like it” letters.  Fuck THAT shit in the ass.  Half the game went by without TPTB showing us any of it, and boy howdy I am PISSED.

That'll do for now.

[ProfCrash]

I think that anyone who uses a real note with real wrapper and hides a fake idol has created a real idol. I would love for the idol note to have to be turned in with the idol when it is used. 

[SVNBob]

Malcolm had a shower idea for a season, and posted a long Tweet-stream about it.

TL;DR version: giant towers near tribe beaches with colored flags that mean something about the game status, if the castaways can figure it out.  Interesting concept.

[Bryce Lynch]

The talk about clothes got me thinking, what if they made better clothing a challenge reward?  The tribe that wins could get swimsuits, jackets, or some other coveted items of clothing.  

[mikewho]

9 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The talk about clothes got me thinking, what if they made better clothing a challenge reward?  The tribe that wins could get swimsuits, jackets, or some other coveted items of clothing.

And give up their skimpy underwear and bikinis?

And they already did that in the season Darrah was in. The winners of a reward challenge went to a nice room, and their own clothes were laid out on the bed.

Darrah 'proved' how much editing was done by pointing out that one of her Talking Head interviews was shown earlier. In it, she was wearing her blue bathing suit. Which she wasn't even given until maybe 3 episodes later after winning the reward.

I remember reading that in an interview.

[Bryce Lynch]

43 minutes ago, mikewho said:

And give up their skimpy underwear and bikinis?

And they already did that in the season Darrah was in. The winners of a reward challenge went to a nice room, and their own clothes were laid out on the bed.

Darrah 'proved' how much editing was done by pointing out that one of her Talking Head interviews was shown earlier. In it, she was wearing her blue bathing suit. Which she wasn't even given until maybe 3 episodes later after winning the reward.

I remember reading that in an interview.

Well, the losing tribe (hopefully the better looking one) would still be half naked. 

They have other clothes besides the bikinis and underwear.  I'm not sure why they wear the skimpy clothes most of the time, probably because they are more comfortable in the heat.  

Edited May 17, 2019 by Bryce Lynch

[mikewho]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

They have other clothes besides the bikinis and underwear.  I'm not sure why they wear the skimpy clothes most of the time, probably because they are more comfortable in the heat. 

I've always heard it's the producers who decide what the players wear.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, mikewho said:

I've always heard it's the producers who decide what the players wear.

They decide what clothes they have, but I'm not sure they decide what they wear at a given time, from among that limited producer chosen wardrobe.

[LadyChatts]

I'm with those that say they need to limit the idols.  No way they should be playing them at the final 5.  Once they're played they shouldn't be re-hidden.  

No more returning players for awhile, especially in a newbie cast.  Once your voted out, you stay out.  Let's go back to some stupid theme like BBB or DvsG that had no real impact on the game like EOE did.  Shake the tribe swap/merge.  I wouldn't care if there was a later merge, because  contestants seem to be know, based on how many people are left in the game, when the merge will be.  The format is so stale right now.  One tribe for 2-3 episodes, tribe swap, maybe another tribe swap and/or the merge (depending on how many contestants we start with in the first place).  Less puzzle/endurance challenges.  No more sharing rewards, because while it seemed to make people bitter this season not getting picked, it usually doesn't create a ton of drama.  And again, with the exception of this season, I don't think it has the strategic impact either. 

[TVFan1]

I'm with everyone else too on less idols. I say put one on each tribe beach, and one on the merge beach. No more clues to them, and no reburying the idols once they are played. This season has been quite frustrating watching Rick, (who I still can't stand), find idol after idol after idol. Enough of that.

[NutMeg]

The problem as I see it with how idols are rehidden after being played is that they are hidden in similar places, and so there is a sort of learning curve to finding them, and that means we easily find ourselves in a situation where the same player keeps finding them one after the other.

It would help to hide them in very different ways and places each time, to avoid the advantage of familiarity with the potential hiding places. Alternate a mix of trees, buried in the sand, hidden in plain sight in challenges, or even at tribal council, spread clues in random places that are part of life at camp, the pot, behind the flint, in the tree mail, the pile of wood for the fire, any random place in the shelter, make some clue only partial information rather than 'dig there' type.

[OutOfTheQuestion]

I'm so bored of the scenes of people searching the woods, yet I know Survivor will never give up idols.  So how about a season where everyone (all 18-20 players) starts with their own idol?  The only thing hidden at each camp is a single idol nullifier, which if played, cancels out EVERY idol played at any given tribal council (except for any idol played by the person who also played the nullifier).

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, NutMeg said:

The problem as I see it with how idols are rehidden after being played is that they are hidden in similar places, and so there is a sort of learning curve to finding them, and that means we easily find ourselves in a situation where the same player keeps finding them one after the other.

Frankly, I think the (admittedly repetitive) pattern of Ricky finding All the Idolz this season was less about the hiding places, and more about Rick being the ONLY one to go looking the night  immediately after a TC where a Camp idol had been played.  I mean - the rest of them had seen Survivor before this season, right?  Simple fact: good things happen to those who ain’t lazy as fuck.

[NutMeg]

You may have a point here.

But I realised after posting that the reason I'd like clues or idols hidden at camp/challenge/tribal is that it could change the dynamic by allowing people who focus more on the social part of the game (spending more time at camp with others) to have the same chance of finding idols without jeopardising their social game by spending hours away from camp.

It's no accident that a majority of people who keep looking and finding idols tend to have a weak social game.

[Nashville]

6 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

It's no accident that a majority of people who keep looking and finding idols tend to have a weak social game.

That’s pretty much how Gavin replied when Probst dinged the finalists about not hunting idols The Rick Way; Gavin said he wasn’t spending all his time and energy hunting for idols because he he felt his social game position was strong enough that he didn’t need them.

[Angeltoes]

One good twist would be to do away with idols and not tell the contestants.  See how long it takes them to realize that they don't have that loophole.

Stop bringing back old contestants.  Enough people try out for this show that they should be able to find new and interesting players.  And stop over-picking the young ones.   I know they want to bring on eye candy but, speaking as someone who's staring down Social Security, there are some damn good looking older folks (looking at you, Sam Elliott).  

No more islands of extinction or exile.  When you're out, you're out.  People will fight harder to stay in the game.

Get some new challenges.  I'm tired of the same ol' things. 

[NutMeg]

4 hours ago, Nashville said:

That’s pretty much how Gavin replied when Probst dinged the finalists about not hunting idols The Rick Way; Gavin said he wasn’t spending all his time and energy hunting for idols because he he felt his social game position was strong enough that he didn’t need them.

Thanks, for some reason my recording cut off before final tribal council, and to make it even weirder I first clicked on the wrong episode and heard Jeff annonce 'Chris has just won Survivor' before even watching the final episode. This season having been just a dud, it didn't even bother me to be spoiled which is a first, because I always avoid spoilers like the plague 😉 So I watched whatever I had and didn't bother looking online for final tribal council.

That being said, I'd say Gavin had a point. I liked it better when idol clues were hidden in napkins at reward challenges (another option to add to my suggestions above :D).

2 hours ago, Angeltoes said:

One good twist would be to do away with idols and not tell the contestants.  See how long it takes them to realize that they don't have that loophole.

Stop bringing back old contestants.  Enough people try out for this show that they should be able to find new and interesting players.  And stop over-picking the young ones.   I know they want to bring on eye candy but, speaking as someone who's staring down Social Security, there are some damn good looking older folks (looking at you, Sam Elliott).  

No more islands of extinction or exile.  When you're out, you're out.  People will fight harder to stay in the game.

Get some new challenges.  I'm tired of the same ol' things. 

I think the no-idol-season has gone, TPTB are too much enamoured with the scenario where one person survives on an Idol diet. Same with the bringing back old contestants, it's not looking like it's in the cards - I even think they only do all-new contestant seasons now so as to find new blood (given how when there are returnees they get a disproportionate amount of screen time, it's the only way we can get really introduced to new players). I do hope though that the 38 format will get sent to the dungeons, never to return, but I'm not as hopeful as I would have been in the past, because the format of next season is proof that introducing new crazy gimmicks is how TPTB see the future. I'm with you though on wanting new challenges, or more specifically a variety of challenges that require different skill sets. If it means bringing back memory game and story time, so be it!

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 10/26/2018 at 4:23 PM, KimberStormer said:

As far as the clothes go, here's my opinion, as someone who has worked in the fashion industry and in theatrical costumes.

None of this explains what's going on with the show.  The women only seem to be given several things, as illustrated by your Parvati photos

1) Bikini
2) Mini Dress
3) Pants
4) Shirt

If I was out there I'd want millions of t-shirts and shorts.  A dress would be useless to me.  Pants too.  And I'd obviously want my bikini/underwear to be covered up.  Put me in zebra print, turqouise, fuschia, peach, I don't care, but give the women a million tshirts and shorts to wear.

It's the CHOICE of items that makes no sense.  I don't care about the colours.  Give them options that people actually wear in hot weather.  The outfits given to the cast as it stands, are nonsense.

Why don't I ever see women in t-shirts and shorts?  I think a tshirt would be preferable to a bikini top or just a buff because then your shoulders won't burn.

I think there is definite sexism and exploitation going on with how the women are dressed.  It isn't just distinguishing people by colour.  

Why was David always running around in JUST underwear?  Why wasn't he provided a pair of shorts?

Edited May 20, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[KimberStormer]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Why don't I ever see women in t-shirts and shorts? 

Here.

If you want my opinion, we on our couches have no fucking clue what people want to wear out there.  Our assumptions are usually wrong, especially when we talk about "hot weather".  Everyone on Survivor always says what bothers them is the cold.  Case in point, Victoria's much-loathed beanie, that people couldn't get their heads around and rolled their terrible eyes and gnashed their terrible teeth about ad nauseum because women wearing clothes I don't like obviously makes them stupid and worthless human beings!!!  But as she explained, it is cold on the island, and as your elementary school teacher might have told you, a hat is good for the cold; and as she further explained, it makes a convenient pillow on hard bamboo.

I have no idea what is better, pants, dresses, shorts, bikinis....like everyone I thought a wool suit was terrible island wear until players said otherwise.  What I do know is that you people whine every goddamn season that you don't know who is who, that you can't tell people apart, that "there's a [name]?  News to me!" and having everybody in "practical" performance gear will make that problem 1000x worse.  Just look how everyone is like "I can't tell Eric and Chris apart" because they're both brunet white guys.  And that's what I'm saying in my ancient post above.

Edited May 20, 2019 by KimberStormer
don't @ me next time

[fishcakes]

That's a pretty old picture though. Cook Islands was 13 years ago. If you look at the more recent seasons, the clothing appears a lot less useful for both men and women, but I do think women -- especially if they're young or have cute figures -- is skimpier. Older women or younger women with more average bodies like Aubrey seem to get a little more coverage, although even Aubrey spent a lot of time just in either panties or bikini bottoms and a sleeveless shirt. It looks like in this EoE season, the women had to rely mostly on their panties and their buffs for coverage. Victoria and Lauren appeared to have jeans, but they didn't wear them much, probably because they're not comfortable once they get damp.

I'm all in favor of giving everyone a color scheme but letting them pick out their own clothes. I'm also in favor of resuming the pixelation of the mens' junk if they do decide that they're most comfortable in their saggy boxer-briefs.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, fishcakes said:

That's a pretty old picture though. Cook Islands was 13 years ago. If you look at the more recent seasons, the clothing appears a lot less useful for both men and women, but I do think women -- especially if they're young or have cute figures -- is skimpier. Older women or younger women with more average bodies like Aubrey seem to get a little more coverage, although even Aubrey spent a lot of time just in either panties or bikini bottoms and a sleeveless shirt.

I feel like I haven't seen Aubrey wear a pair of shorts or pants or anything but underwear in ages.  Maybe in her first season.  I can't remember, and it's a while ago.

And if "cold weather" is the issue, then I still think a t-shirt and shorts is definitely more preferable than a dress, or bikini, or just underwear.

It's just my personal opinion that I would like a lot more tshirts and shorts thrown at the contestants.  Not mini-dresses and just underwear.  (i.e. "Fix the show").   I thought it was confirmed that producers are choosing the clothing - not the players - and that's what I was talking about.

I really don't think the issue of not telling players apart is going to be hindered any further by clothes issues.  Some people didn't know Chris from Eric even in the finale thread.  Wearing neutrals can't make that issue any worse, because it's already as bad as it gets.  Editing is probably the way to fix that.  

Edited May 20, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I'm also in favor of resuming the pixelation of the mens' junk if they do decide that they're most comfortable in their saggy boxer-briefs.

+1

[Special K]

I bet they have issues with clothes drying, and that's why, for instance, they end up wearing just underwear a lot.  I mean, how long would it take jeans to dry when they keep getting wet?  This season, they seemed to have had more warm clothes -- Julie had a knit sweater, and several of them had jeans.  The kindest thing would be to provide actual technical apparel, like hiking pants and exercise tops that dry quickly.  But that would negate the "accidental survivor" look they seem to be going for with their suits and sundresses.

I really wish they would provide normal swimsuits from the beginning though -- I think it's so disrespectful to the contestants not to.  Underwear gets so stretched out, and that's not even taking into account their weight loss.

[MissEwa]

On 5/18/2019 at 9:39 AM, LadyChatts said:

I'm with those that say they need to limit the idols.  No way they should be playing them at the final 5. 

This. I think it's a problem they didn't think of when they introduced firemaking (or... they did think of it, given the function of the whole fire-making thing, but they hope we didn't). Traditionally, idols were valid to F4 for a F2 season and F5 for a F3 season, because that means everyone still has to survive one vote without idols/advantages to get to the finale. When they introduced fire at F4, they got rid of that one 'level playing field' tribal. 

Given they're determined to keep fire-making, idols should stop at F6. Everyone has to survive the F5 vote by the power of their own game. 

Between the idols, fire-making, and this season EoE, the whole premise of the game (having to avoid being voted out) is getting so diluted it barely matters. 

Also this came up briefly in the S38 finale thread, but I can't help but feel like it's weird that the first six people voted out of EoE got two chances to get back in, the next eight got one chance, but then Victoria and Lauren got no second shot. It seems vaguely unfair that there's no advantage to making it further in the game, and in fact after a certain point you're actually disadvantaged by the existence of EoE, despite playing a better Survivor game. 

A fix for the first part of that would be weighting the returnee challenges - say there's an 'untie all these knots' component, and for every vote you survived in the game you have one less knot. Not insurmountable, but maybe enough to discourage a player like Joe looking at being voted out onto EoE early as a valid strategy.

There's no fix for the second beyond taking EoE right up to F3, which would be awful, but I'd personally vote for nixing it at the merge. If they need to run it to F6, then definitely no idols handed out just for returning (you're already getting a second shot, you shouldn't get an advantage as well), and the post-EoE vote-outs get an extra jury vote, or to boot one EoE member from the jury - something to influence the game and make them a bit more dangerous. 

Ideally though we just never see EoE again, but if they have to... 

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, Special K said:

  But that would negate the "accidental survivor" look they seem to be going for with their suits and sundresses.

I also really don't like this justification or the "shipwrecked" justification that people surmise that the show uses to give the contestants bad clothing choices either.  It's been 38 seasons.  The jig is up.  We know they're not actually shipwrecked and we know it's not an accident, and we know that some of these people have spent 20 years applying.  So, let's give them some comfortable options.  Personal opinion.

4 hours ago, Special K said:

The kindest thing would be to provide actual technical apparel, like hiking pants and exercise tops that dry quickly.  But that would negate the "accidental survivor" look they seem to be going for with their suits and sundresses.

I really wish they would provide normal swimsuits from the beginning though -- I think it's so disrespectful to the contestants not to.  Underwear gets so stretched out, and that's not even taking into account their weight loss.

I think that would be awesome.  And to be honest, in a place like Fiji, I think your clothes would dry pretty quickly and this would not be some huge issue, and wearing wet clothes for a little bit would not be that bad because they'd dry fast anyway.

[Special K]

15 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think that would be awesome.  And to be honest, in a place like Fiji, I think your clothes would dry pretty quickly and this would not be some huge issue, and wearing wet clothes for a little bit would not be that bad because they'd dry fast anyway.

They could even get a clothing sponsor, Patagonia or EMS, etc.

[Bryce Lynch]

How about, an reward challenge on the ship or when they first arrive on the beach.  The winning tribe gets to choose between some good clothing, like the outdoor apparel mentioned above, or a lot of extra food.   The other tribe gets what the winning tribe turns down. 

[Eolivet]

I don't want to see contestants in athletic gear, although I'm all for giving them more wardrobe options. Survivor New Zealand was great about this -- they had color-coded wardrobes for each tribe and when they swapped, they switched their wardrobes. So, when blue swapped to yellow, they put on their yellow stuff, etc. and at the merge, everyone had two full sets of clothes. But if they're staying in Fiji for the foreseeable future, the location is now basically a soundstage. I think the women should have more substantial (regular) clothes and please, let's not put anybody in jeans ever again, but the dilapidated suits and outfits still have some charm to them, for me. There has to be a happy medium between "light dresses, jeans and underwear" and "full-on athletic gear."

Plus, putting them in athletic gear and having them compete on a constructed soundstage is ... basically The Challenge. What's next -- having them sleep inside?

[phlebas]

I've been thinking about the idols and production's insistence on showering us with them.

Two things I think might be fun:

1. An idol can be used to cancel another idol.  Someone plays an idol for the player you just voted for? Boom. You lose your own idol but that person is no longer protected.
2. Fire-making challenges are now a permanent thing. So create an advantage where you can force a trial by combat -- if you (or someone you play it for) gets voted out, you (or they) immediately build a fire against the second place person.  That will at least encourage people to practice building a damned fire.

[KimberStormer]

Excuse me because I'm drunk, but I just want to go back to Survivor.  Survivor is such a great game.  The thing about it is it sort of flays me open like St Bartholomew and shows me everything I wish I was, i.e. Parvati and/or Kim.  I have nothing in common with them.  I am extremely timid all the time, have no charisma, have never in my entire life gotten anyone to do what I asked them, have difficulty making personal connections, I'm a shy scared and boring mouse.  I'm Denise from China, I'm all the people who never made a move.  I want to see people playing to win, not just Parvati and Kim incredible people but clumsy Ciera people, delusional Abi people, grumpy Kelley people, even people like me but playing to win like Lisa Welchel.  I need to know it's possible to do that and still be a good person inside.  But now Survivor's not even about that anymore, it's about making fires and shit.  I don't admire those winners, that's not what I'm looking for out of this show.  And it makes me sad.

Edited May 25, 2019 by KimberStormer
spelllling

[Nashville]

On 5/25/2019 at 1:31 AM, KimberStormer said:

Excuse me because I'm drunk, but I just want to go back to Survivor. 

Here lately the two seem to go hand-in-hand; bad Survivor seasons are frequently made more palatable via an improperly large infusion of alcohol.

(Come to think of it, that applies to BB as well - and TWD - but I digress....)

Quote

I want to see people playing to win, not just Parvati and Kim incredible people but clumsy Ciera people, delusional Abi people, grumpy Kelley people, even people like me but playing to win like Lisa Welchel.  I need to know it's possible to do that and still be a good person inside.  

I believe it is possible to do so, but there’s a key element I think you have to keep in mind: Reality TV isn’t real, and that frequently extends to the players.

What I mean by that is their reality TV personas often have little or nothing in common with their real-life personalities.  Many do, of course - I have little doubt Tai’s affinity for all things living was 100% genuine, for example, just as I’m fairly sure Russell Hantz is a USDA Grade A certified douchebag through and through.  Thing is, though, those people who stay true to their core personalities are rarely the one you see sitting at FTC facing the Jury; they generally end up being the ones sitting in the Jury box - and IMHO the fundamental nature of Survivor (of reality TV shows in general, actually) kinda dictates this outcome.

Here’s the thing: most competitive Reality TV shows require players to follow some variation of a two-phase formula to achieve success:

1. Initially the player must employ a strategy of competitive cooperation - working together for the success of a group.  In Survivor this starts out as competing for the mutual benefit of your tribe, which generally morphs into working for the mutual benefit of your alliance.  
2. At some point in the game, though, the player’s strategy must shift to a strategy of competitive elimination - getting rid of every other player who poses a significant threat to the player’s chances to win.  
3. The nature of the game not only frequently requires stratagems #1 and #2 to be played concurrently, it can also sometimes require they be played concurrently on the same person(s) - I.e., attempting to preserve an alliance while simultaneously targeting certain selected members of the alliance.

The shift from #1 to #2 represents a 180-degree change in the nature of the player’s strategy, especially when its targets are those players with whom the player has been (or is currently, even) allied - so suffice it to say a contestant who places “playing true to themself” high on their list of priorities would be hard-put to cover all bases, unless they were already conversant with a significant degree of schizophrenia.

[Special K]

On 5/25/2019 at 2:31 AM, KimberStormer said:

 I am extremely timid all the time, have no charisma,

I dunno, you have plenty of charisma on these boards.