S05.E14: Intimacy Pt. 2

[2727]

Is it common for people to get under the covers in the guest bedroom to masturbate? So weird. The entire situation seemed to be a set up, but why would either Cody or Danielle agree to such a thing? WHY?

10 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

Nate has to have some serious concerns by now. I do feel they will stay together but he's going to get very tired & broken down if this keeps up.

Nate's wish was apparently to marry his mother, so ...

[Jade Foxx]

3 hours ago, Drogo said:

I take back my previous statement from last week that Sheila is just feisty.  Girl is batty, hypocritical and self-sabotaging. 

Pretty much. I don't see Shiela as "scary," more like wounded (damaged?) and unstable. If Nate and Shiela stay married, they'll be on Couples Therapy next season. 

Totally inappropriate, but I cracked up at the "wounding my spirit" line. And Nate's response, "girl ain't nobody trying to WOUND YOUR SPIRIT..." ??

this show is for entertainment purposes only

Edited July 15, 2017 by Jade Foxx

[jpagan05]

Obviously all the couples getting together is an opportunity to share experiences and none are going to be the same. Hopefully they have all realized that their individual situations are all completely different.

I personally see nothing wrong with waiting for sex. It's been one month, ffs. Cody, go back to your hick town and keep tagging your gym members if you are not happy. And "roughing up the suspect' is nothing to be ashamed of, even in a sexually satisfying relationship. Everyone's needs are different.

I don't think that Ashley should feel badly at all about not wanting to change her name. It is an outmoded concept. I feel like she will probably concede if/when they have kids. Or maybe Anthony will :) I think they are great together. 

I think Sheila does not want to air dirty laundry on TV- and I know that's hypocritical being on a reality show, but I feel like they solve their problems behind closed doors. She does need to understand that somethings cannot be unsaid and once you float that air bubble, it's there forever. I also think that the lack of orgasm thing is a bigger issue than no sex. They should be working on that together. I think it was pretty ballsy of Nate to comment on Cody and Danielle's relationship- brah, what is Sheila getting out of your sex life?

[jpagan05]

3 hours ago, Drogo said:

I take back my previous statement from last week that Sheila is just feisty.  Girl is batty, hypocritical and self-sabotaging. 

No, no, no! When you are falling in love, everything feels so intense and then after the dust has settled you realize you may have been temporarily insane. Unless you marry your high school sweetheart or have zero baggage, it's terrifying. Okay, maybe self-sabotaging. Hopefully she'll get it. I'm still rooting for them.

[bichonblitz]

I wonder how Sheila would react if N8 was the one that was contantly saying:

I'm DONE! 

I'm DONE with you! I'll say it again, I am DONE!

I'm not doing this! 

I won't do this!

I don't want to be married to you! 

She started with that shit on the honeymoon and hasn't let up since. 

She admitted she can be vicious, so I don't agree that this is editing. This is Sheila. 

[ethalfrida]

8 hours ago, jpagan05 said:

No, no, no! When you are falling in love, everything feels so intense and then after the dust has settled you realize you may have been temporarily insane. Unless you marry your high school sweetheart or have zero baggage, it's terrifying. Okay, maybe self-sabotaging. Hopefully she'll get it. I'm still rooting for them.

High energy is acceptable. But being nasty and insulting is a whole nother thing. Of course there are mistakes but deliberately hurting the one you are so in love with? Sheila was vicious and I can't buy that that is passion and falling in love. We may as well excuse physical violence then.

[Jellybeans]

12 hours ago, Drogo said:

I take back my previous statement from last week that Sheila is just feisty.  Girl is batty, hypocritical and self-sabotaging. 

Sheila is a soul sucker.  I wonder how many souls she vacuumed up with that mouth of hers.

[magemaud]

8 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

I'm DONE! PERIOD!

I'm DONE with you! I'll say it again, I am DONE! PERIOD!

I'm not doing this! PERIOD!

I won't do this! PERIOD!

I don't want to be married to you! PERIOD!

PERIOD! PERIOD! PERIOD! (Maybe Sheila's always on her period?) 

[gonecrackers]

11 hours ago, 2727 said:

Nate's wish was apparently to marry his mother, so ...

I'm not sold that his mother is all that bad. I just think she was concerned about him marrying a stranger who could end up being like Sheila...

9 hours ago, Jade Foxx said:

I don't see Shiela as "scary," more like wounded (damaged?) and unstable.

Wounded people who haven't healed their wounds tend to wound others.

Edited July 15, 2017 by gonecrackers

[Gem 10]

On July 13, 2017 at 11:39 PM, gonecrackers said:

It wouldn't be the first time the 'experts' have wrongly encouraged women on this show to stay with the husband even if they did not feel safe.

"Experts" are not always right.  A very close relative of mine is an "expert", and she has done some pretty insane things in her life.

[Evil Queen]

14 hours ago, lilsadone said:

Or, she's actually just horrible and moody all the time. 

Sometimes people do get a bad edit, sometimes they are just horribly grumpy and there is more footage of them acting a mess than there is of them being pleasant. 

The thing is I think all these times she is saying she is done is more so to the producers than it is to Nate. Not saying she hasn't said it to Nate too but I think its mostly to the producers because they start butting in. Hell if you got producers butting in on your issues or trying to create ones then I bet it would make one grumpy and moody. LOL

10 hours ago, jpagan05 said:

I think Sheila does not want to air dirty laundry on TV- and I know that's hypocritical being on a reality show, but I feel like they solve their problems behind closed doors. 

I think this was done because they had already had the producers butting in on they honeymoon and making issues that weren't as bad worse...same when they got home. So they agree to do it behind close doors. This way not only are they handling it themselves as they might prefer with out the crew butting in BUT they also don't have the "experts" getting up in their issues making it worse. You can tell the "experts" are not happy with that too. They showed pepper making comment on it and she was acting more like it was hurting her that she can't be up in their business than it was them. Yet if they wouldn't get involved as they do I can imagine it would be different in what they did on camera. They just ended up finding a few people this season that seemed to have wised up to the bs. I see it with Anthony and Ashley as well with not telling rachel anything and how they don't discuss certain things on camera as well. 

[princelina]

11 hours ago, jpagan05 said:

I think Sheila does not want to air dirty laundry on TV- 

Yet she has no problem telling "America" (as reality tv stars like to call their limited amount of viewers :) that she's never had an orgasm!  Something's not connecting for me there!

[ciaoformeow]

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

The thing is I think all these times she is saying she is done is more so to the producers than it is to Nate. Not saying she hasn't said it to Nate too but I think its mostly to the producers because they start butting in. Hell if you got producers butting in on your issues or trying to create ones then I bet it would make one grumpy and moody. LOL

I

2

Oh yes, I see what you're saying now - totally a possibilty knowing her issues with the documentation process. 

[booboopbedoo]

13 hours ago, 2727 said:

Is it common for people to get under the covers in the guest bedroom to masturbate? So weird. The entire situation seemed to be a set up, but why would either Cody or Danielle agree to such a thing? WHY?

I hope he used one of her socks

why is the brother living with them? Is he Mentally Handicapped?

[humbleopinion]

Tyrique is living with N8 and Sheila because the plan was for him to go to college while living with N8 in Chicago...then M@FS happened but didn't change the plans because Sheila was okay with him living  with them.

No, Rique is not.

[gonecrackers]

4 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

"Experts" are not always right.  A very close relative of mine is an "expert", and she has done some pretty insane things in her life.

Which is why I feel people should think for themselves. It's great to get advice but 'expert' doesn't mean they know what's best for someone else.

These "experts" on the show are nothing but TV personalities. If something is not good for a participant but good for the show, they are always going to default to what's good for the show.

Edited July 15, 2017 by gonecrackers

[Drogo]

2 hours ago, princelina said:

Yet she has no problem telling "America" (as reality tv stars like to call their limited amount of viewers :) that she's never had an orgasm!  Something's not connecting for me there!

She doesn't want to talk through the issue with him on camera... but she has no problem speaking directly to the camera about how terrible Nathan is after-the-fact.  O, the hypocrisy knows no bounds. 

I'm hopeful that once she realizes Nate isn't planning to run away from her, she'll come off high alert and the crazy will subside. 

[Gem 10]

14 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

Which is why I feel people should think for themselves. It's great to get advice but 'expert' doesn't mean they know what's best for someone else.

These "experts" on the show are nothing but TV personalities. If something is not good for a participant but good for the show, they are always going to default to what's good for the show.

Absolutely .. I agree with you.  Sometimes I will ask a good friend their opinion, but in the end, I always do what I feel is right, and trust my own judgement.  I think Anthony thinks the same way, and felt that he wasn't thrilled with Rachel's intrusion.

[Racj82]

18 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Actually, you're all wrong - From the Urban Dictionary:  The William Tell

OK, now all the couples are officially disgusting me.  And I'm very far from a prude either.  Just ewwww.

I can't tell if you are just joking but if not I'm just going to say you may be reading too much into the William tell. He hummed a song from a western while doing a motion with his hands one is known to do when riding. I'm not sure how much needs to be looked into this. Just a silly little moment.

[jpagan05]

7 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

 

7 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I'm not sold that his mother is all that bad. I just think she was concerned about him marrying a stranger who could end up being like Sheila...

Wounded people who haven't healed their wounds tend to wound others.

She has been rude and unrelenting in every single scene they have shown her in. I thought Sheila handled herself pretty well in those situations.

So very true!!

Edited July 16, 2017 by jpagan05

[lh25]

I'm pretty much over Shelia.  Granted, we don't know what Nate said to her, but she called him a name she knew was hurtful to him.  And gives herself a pass because she was upset and she knows she can be mean?  I'm also done with her refusing to believe what he tells her.  About his motivations for thinking about living a garage, and then insisting that he wasn't sorry no matter what he said.  If I were Nate, I would decide she wasn't worth all the effort and drama.  Of course, then she could be all about "See, men just can't be trusted."

[nexxie]

So will any of these couples stay together after eight weeks? 

[jpagan05]

15 minutes ago, lh25 said:

I'm pretty much over Shelia.  Granted, we don't know what Nate said to her, but she called him a name she knew was hurtful to him.  And gives herself a pass because she was upset and she knows she can be mean?  I'm also done with her refusing to believe what he tells her.  About his motivations for thinking about living a garage, and then insisting that he wasn't sorry no matter what he said.  If I were Nate, I would decide she wasn't worth all the effort and drama.  Of course, then she could be all about "See, men just can't be trusted."

In the after thingy with Jamie, she said it wasn't really a big deal, which I was pretty surprised at, considering her reaction. She def has trust issues. I still like her though. Maybe I'll change my mind next week :)

[gonecrackers]

54 minutes ago, jpagan05 said:

She has been rude and unrelenting in every single scene they have shown her in. I thought Sheila handled herself pretty well in those situations.

Yeah, she's a pisser; I'm taking notes for when my son brings someone home... kidding (sorta).

Drama queen meets the new & improved drama queen... can't say Nate wasn't prepped for the job.

Edited July 16, 2017 by gonecrackers
punctuation issue

[MsPH]

I don't buy the editing excuse with Sheila. I think she's suffering from a massive victim complex and blaming editing and producers is par for the course. It can't possibly be her fault that she looks bad, it's the cameras/producers/editors/Nate who are to blame. *eyeroll* I don't even care what Nate said to her, he owned up to crossing a line and apologised, over and over. That's more than you can say for Sheila ever. I also don't believe he was throwing stuff around, probably just threw his bag on the bed forcefully or some clothes on the floor while getting changed. I doubt he was throwing plates across the room or anything, since I've seen no sign of him having that kind of a temper. Sheila just exaggerates everything to justify her victimhood. I think it's clear by now that Nate really does care about her and it affects him when they argue, and I believe that he sincerely regrets some of the things he's said. Sheila, however, seems to just randomly decide he's an asshole who gets off on "wounding" his wife, rather than a normal human being who sometimes says the wrong thing when angry, so it doesn't matter what he says. I don't know why she can't just accept an apology. Perhaps because she's never apologetic herself, so she can't even comprehend someone's apology being sincere? What is he supposed to do, hire a plane to drag a banner saying "Sheila, I'm sorry. I love you" across the sky? Nah, she'll just punish him for a few days again before she's ready to bury the topic (or file it for later use). It's abusive behaviour IMO. I really hope Nate doesn't just roll over and let her continue this nonsense, because it's unlikely to ever end if she sees that it works.

Cody and Danielle are so painful to watch. I don't particularly like either of them, but I hate how Danielle's expected to have sex with him at this point. I think he's actively sabotaging any chance of that ever happening by constantly reminding her that she's "holding out" and acting like he's gonna die if he has to go one more week without sex. I know for me there's no bigger turn off than a man trying to guilt-trip me into having sex when I'm not feeling it. That just ensures that it won't happen anytime soon. Not that I think Danielle would be ripping his clothes off even if he never mentioned it, but I don't think whining about it in front of friends, siblings and strangers will help. He's so clueless. How could anyone be attracted to him at this point? Danielle is no prize either but Cody's just so immature. I don't think either of them are trying as much as they say they are. I actually find it baffling how you can still act so awkward around someone you've lived with for over a month.

A&A clearly have no doubts about staying together so it's ridiculous they're still trying to create suspense. I also love how they are so wary of Rachel. They clearly don't want to tell her anything at this point and are annoyed she's prying into their private business. Can't blame them, since the last time she was there, she created issues out of thin air. Just go away, creeper.

Surprised Anthony's fine with living next to Ashley's sis. Hope he doesn't come to regret it.

[Neurochick]

21 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Oh, and @Neurochick, I grew up with the #4 train, took it for decades from the Bronx to Manhattan and back.  Had to stop because of fear of getting mugged by marauding gangs which had already preyed upon a couple of friends of mine.  And no guy ever said "excuse me" to me for manspreading or bumping into me and I'm white, to the point that I remember it specifically because I had a complex about it and thought it was a poor manners thing or just a general lack of respect for women unless they're young and very attractive - I have seen that a lot, where they get an apology but I get shoved and given a dirty look for being "in their way".  And the women were no better, in fact even worse to other women than the men were to women.  I now get bumped into at shopping malls out here in the suburbs and no one says "excuse me", male or female but I'm almost 60 and at this age I'm completely invisible anyway, of course.  YMMV, of course.

I don't get this, so because this happened to you, and you're white, that means black women shouldn't feel offended at all?  

Quote

I think it's clear by now that Nate really does care about her and it affects him when they argue, and I believe that he sincerely regrets some of the things he's said. Sheila, however, seems to just randomly decide he's an asshole who gets off on "wounding" his wife, rather than a normal human being who sometimes says the wrong thing when angry, so it doesn't matter what he says. I don't know why she can't just accept an apology. Perhaps because she's never apologetic herself, so she can't even comprehend someone's apology being sincere? What is he supposed to do, hire a plane to drag a banner saying "Sheila, I'm sorry. I love you" across the sky? Nah, she'll just punish him for a few days again before she's ready to bury the topic (or file it for later use). It's abusive behaviour IMO. I really hope Nate doesn't just roll over and let her continue this nonsense, because it's unlikely to ever end if she sees that it works.

Why is it clear to you, because Nate cries when Sheila gets upset?  Just because he's crying doesn't make him an abuse victim.  Editing does matter.  Two years ago, I thought David was pretty okay, but this season on Second Chances, I was like, "is this the same person?"  Suddenly, he turned into a douchey wannabe player.  I can't believe David changed all that much, but I can believe the editing did.  

BTW, how many times does a person have to deal with "a normal human being who sometimes says the wrong thing when angry?"

I just get sick of black women being demonized.  

Edited July 16, 2017 by Neurochick

[Evil Queen]

2 hours ago, jpagan05 said:

In the after thingy with Jamie, she said it wasn't really a big deal, which I was pretty surprised at, considering her reaction. She def has trust issues. I still like her though. Maybe I'll change my mind next week :)

Yet it might be she didn't want to go to into it so she said it wasn't a big deal as in a more let's move on from this kind of way. 

44 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Why is it clear to you, because Nate cries when Sheila gets upset?  Just because he's crying doesn't make him an abuse victim.  Editing does matter.  Two years ago, I thought David was pretty okay, but this season on Second Chances, I was like, "is this the same person?"  Suddenly, he turned into a douchey wannabe player.  I can't believe David changed all that much, but I can believe the editing did.  

Like I said I think Nate is a smooth talker. Says the things he knows he needs to to get by on and make himself look good. Not say Sheila doesn't have issues and is perfect because she does...Yet I agree editing plays more of a part of this show than many think. Producers do as well. BTW, David isn't the only one either that has had edits one way and turned out another (Neil, Vanessa, etc). That is for another thread though and topic. As I said there is a look in Nate's eyes at times when they are having words that I don't like. Its not a good one either. This goes back to the honeymoon btw. To much is not shown and/or not discussed to know the whole story on things. With that......

 

1 hour ago, MsPH said:

I don't even care what Nate said to her, he owned up to crossing a line and apologised, over and over.

This is exactly what calvin and pepper seem to say. That no matter what one should forgive. Sometimes there is no forgiving. Since we have no clue what was really said by him we have no clue if its worth forgiving or not. Doesn't matter how many times someone apologizes. Some people will do those things over and over again so what then? What if this wasn't the first time he has crossed that line? As I said above I think he is someone that will say what he needs in situations to look better. If by chance he was truly sorry then he won't repeat that mistake and take the low blow he did. Just as she won't call him a bitch again. 

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I just get sick of black women being demonized.  

I think the show just wants drama wherever. When they have their issues the show gets right in there, Sheila doesn't want to deal with them, so ensues the tactical edits for the most dramatic effect. My prediction is when filming stopped they probably stayed together & could work things out between themselves unobtrusively.

Regarding being demonized, I think Sam of Season 3 was probably at least somewhat possessed.

[SerenityNow721]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I just get sick of black women being demonized

I don't understand this.  She's being called out for behaving badly.  Whatever Nate did or said, she's just as guilty for how she responds - in a cruel and hurtful way.  

How is she being demonized?  And what does her being black have to do with it?  Danielle is being criticized all over these boards and so is Ashley.

PS - I'm editing to add that I mean no disrespect, Neurochick, but you're seeing something that seems to really be bothering you and I would like to understand it because these are things we (meaning the people of our country) need to talk about with each other and don't know how to (and I'm pretty sure a reality show forum is not the right place) I hope that makes sense. 

Edited July 16, 2017 by SerenityNow721
Clarification

[Passthepopcorn]

The story of Danielle and Cody (according to what is shown on the show only and my own perception):

They meet. It seems ok.

Wedding night- They are so excited about the whole "I'm married!!" that adrenaline kicks in and they are into each other. Suddenly, Danielle realizes that she had just met this guy hours ago and she says, wait a minute, let's get to know each other first. I believe they liked each other enough at this point.

Both of them seem like good people that came to this show with the right intentions, but turned clueless quickly.

Honeymoon- She is hopeful sex will happen, I remember hearing her say it and also looking at him with the hint that she was ready.

Then... BOOM. I don't know what happened to him and he steps back. She did not see this coming. Maybe he felt rejected, maybe he had never been with someone who wanted to wait.

She not only feels insecure of herself, starts panicking a little in confusion but also starts loosing the initial attraction because of his personality, the way he moves, the way he speaks, the lack of assertion, the little things.

From this point on, it is a struggle to feel attracted or understood. They don't read each other at all, they don't get each other.

I don't think that she is completely checked out, because every time Cody is upset or tells her (or other people in front of them -ouch-) that he is unhappy, she gets really nervous and shocked. If she didn't care, she would just roll her eyes or send him to fly a kite.

Agree that one month without sex is nothing at the early stages of a relationship, when you are getting to know each other, dating. One month being married, honeymooning and sharing a bed every night... that is another thing...

[Snarklepuss]

4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don't get this, so because this happened to you, and you're white, that means black women shouldn't feel offended at all? 

No, I'm not saying don't be offended at insults, sure, be offended.  I just mean that not every perceived insult or slight hurled at a black woman is coming from racism or cultural stereotypes, nor is every negative character judgment, especially with regard to this TV show where a lot of the contestants are vile and wacko, like Sam, who was also scary in her own right as many people (including me) posted during that season.

I personally really loved Sheila in the first several weeks even after she showed some tendencies to being on the rigid, argumentative side.  I thought perhaps it was just because of producer intervention and going for the drama factor, or the stress of doing the show, and I made tons of excuses for her, but in the past two episodes I'm seeing that it goes way beyond what they want us to see because her behavior has been that bad.  And truthfully my heart breaks to have to change the way I see her.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Snarklepuss

[27bored]

Sheila isn't getting a bad edit; she's just a transforming ass bitch. She's cool when it's cool, but as soon as Megatron and the other Decepticons decide they're going to save Cybertron by merging it with Earth's life force or whatever, she goes from Chrysler 300 to an Autobot really to roll the fuck out. I don't think they can consistently edit someone to look the exact opposite than they are. I think Cody, for example, is getting an edit of sorts because they keep showing clip after clip of him talking about not having sex, when I'm sure he's just answering questions he's been given. It's similar to a few years back when they had a straight guy on Project Runway and it seemed like every POV he gave he was mentioning that he's a straight guy. It made him look like he was obsessed with it, but really the producers kept pressing the issue. That's not Sheila's testimony. 

I don't care what Nate said, to be perfectly honest. Number one, it seems like Sheila was gangbanging on bacon. He was playing a game on his phone, said he'd hit her back in a sec, and she got in her feelings about it. So the fact that this was an issue that she even had to address already meant she was on one. Second, Sheila, if you're so "vicious" and quick to pop off, bitch don't get mad when Nate, or anybody else for that matter, decides to clap back on your ass. Shit. That's why I hate when women claim they're so incisive with their words. No, you're really not. You're not about that life at all, so stop it. Nate probably didn't even say anything crazy at her, and by crazy, I mean unfair. Because if he said how she acts probably contributed to whatever problems she had in her previous relationship, that might sting but it's probably true. Or, if he went harder and said, "I see why you got cheated on...because you're suspicious of everything", still harsh, but true. But Sheila, you called the man a bitch. You...know better than that, that's why you said that shit. If he had said that to her, everybody in the whole wide world would think he was an asshole. But my thing is, Sheila? When it comes to throwing "bitch" around, it takes one to know one, boo.

I thought Nate was trying to be the bigger person and apologize, but seriously, I wouldn't waste my time apologizing to her. He might have gone too far, but Sheila doesn't really understand how her behavior affects other people. She knows she goes in when she gets angry, but you see how she deals with that anger being given back. She fucking bails on the situation. Like I said last week, and I hadn't even seen this episode the night it came on, when women are like Sheila and quick to read you over something, trust me, they are not fucking with you. Look at Sheila. Changing her name and shit. Talking about how great Nate is. But then the second her feelings get hurt, she's ready to pack up all her shit and leave, then even when he apologizes profusely, she's done Done DONE! She's not a loyal chick and she's not over her ex. Let her be a big baby and throw away the relationship and go back out there to fall in love with another dude who is going to have to tip toe around her sensitive ass. Cut your losses and run!

 

Anthony and Ashley still seem to be good for the most part. I think Ashley's probably a little bit of a pain, but I think they're in the Honeymoon phase where there's sex all the time and everything is mostly alright. When they settle into a groove, her neurotic tendencies are going to become more of a pain, I think. And let me just say this to the ladies about men who procrastinate. It may sound counterintuitive, but sometimes we prefer if you wait until the "last minute" or until it's urgent before you ask us to do something. If you bring it up days or weeks prior, it's probably going to get filed away, so to speak. In the situation with the apartment form, that didn't seem like something that would take very long. It might seem prudent to be like, "just do it and get it out of the way", but if it's not a big deal and it's not something we necessarily want to do, you might have better luck mentioning it to us that morning or the night before it's due. That way we can make it a priority and know that when we complete it, it's done and over with. But many of us don't do the whole "if someone says be there at 9, I'll be there at 8:45, like a good soldier" thing. If something is going to take 30 minutes, we don't really need a five day notice. Jus' sayin'.

 

Danielle trips me out because she always seems mildly taken aback when Cody exposes that, you know, he ain't feeling the love. When he said his trust for her is 3-4, so was confused. Huh? I think Cody was right when he said he has stronger feelings for her than she does for him. She looked confused by that too. Either Danielle thinks Cody is kind of a doofus -- which he may be -- or she thinks she's feigning a burgeoning interest in him really well -- which she's absolutely not. I think Cody's probably bringing up the lack of sex more because it's getting close to decision time and Danielle has safely made it all the way to the end while barely giving Cody any reason to think she even likes him, much less wants to stay married to him. I really hope Cody leaves Danielle alone, focuses on his gym, and maybe tries to meet a girl around his age the normal way. Let Danielle go Facestalk her ex or something. I get the feeling Danielle's probably a big fat zero in bed. And Cody needs to stop simping and acting like she's so wonderful because no she's not. She's probably not a bad person deep down, but she is leading him on and seems to be not over her ex.

[LennieBriscoe]

Happy Smiling Scale, 0--5.0:

1.) Ashley---5.0  Anthony---4.5.-----Will stay married. Ashley will take Anthony's last name in appreciation of his willingness to move near Sis; I.e.,  commitment for commitment.

2.) Sheila---3.0   Nate---3.0------------Might stay married. Their religious faith will be a factor.

3.) Danielle---0.5   Cody---0.0--------Bwahahaha! Not even "Second Chances" material. 

Edited July 16, 2017 by LennieBriscoe

[Braveshoppr]

11 hours ago, Neurochick said:

'I don't get this, so because this happened to you, and you're white, that means black women shouldn't feel offended at all?

11 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Why is it clear to you, because Nate cries when Sheila gets upset?  Just because he's crying doesn't make him an abuse victim.  Editing does matter.  Two years ago, I thought David was pretty okay, but this season on Second Chances, I was like, "is this the same person?"  Suddenly, he turned into a douchey wannabe player.  I can't believe David changed all that much, but I can believe the editing did.  

BTW, how many times does a person have to deal with "a normal human being who sometimes says the wrong thing when angry?"

I just get sick of black women being demonized.  

 

Please don't start with the black vs white routine. This is a forum, a place where people can express their opinions without fear of overture. It's perfectly just for the poster to do so. She has made her point -the same point one can find all over the net. Most people (of any persuasion) feel like Sheila has a few loose nuts, she's damaging and disparaging of Nate. If you are so offended by a panelist's opinion, one that is shared by most people you, have your work cut out for you. Go to Lifetime and complain on their forum and take notice where it gets you. 

"I just get sick of black women being demonized. " Sheila is creating her own video, no one here is telling her how to act or what to say.  We are commenting on what we see. This is not the place to strong-arm other posters because he or she doesn't see it the you want them to.

[27bored]

As far as the discussion about Sheila dovetailing into a broader discussion about the portrayal of black women on TV is concerned, I gotta say Sheila isn't doing herself or any other black woman any favors by fulfilling stereotypes. Like they always say: stereotypes exist for a reason, and the Angry Black Woman, unfair as it might be at times, seems to fit her. 

IMO, the Angry Black Woman stereotype I think speaks to two deeper issues, and we're left to speculate about these since we can't delve into her background to see if this is true.

The first issue is, when you cut up like how Sheila does, you act like a woman who doesn't have anything [to lose]. People who feel like they don't have anything have no problem throwing away everything they do have at the drop of a hat. The older you get, the more you realize, you have to protect what you care about -- sometimes even from yourself. Sheila doesn't seem to realize that when she decides to cut Nate down with her words, it creates a situation where he feels like less of a man for copping pleas and apologizing all while she turns her ass up to him, i.e. the last scene on the basketball court. I wouldn't be surprised if Sheila developed that habit because her last boyfriend was the macho, guy's guy type (similar to Danielle), and Sheila felt like she had to match him by being incisive with her words. Even though not all men are macho and egotistical, we are more pragmatic than emotional, sometimes to a fault. We never really want to apologize if we weren't trying to hurt you. We will if we see we did, but...very often we're only doing it because we have to be good stewards over your feelings, not because we agree with you, on an intellectual level, that we were wrong. It would behoove Sheila not to visit that well too often with Nate or any other man she deals with. After awhile it starts to seem like a manipulation tactic (which it kind of is) and we get blindsided by the fact that we feel like idiots for always having to be the Bad Guy so you never have to feel like one. And that's when beautiful, intelligent, ambitious women who have their shit together start playing second fiddle to a bitch with a bad lace front who works at Subway -- because the Subway chick lets him be a man.

The other issue is, most of the time it's the good, decent guy who has to deal with the Angry Black Woman. It's annoying when you hear women talk about how much patience and kindness and understanding they had in their past relationship with a guy who seemed intent on doing the most, but then when they get with a guy who seems to be decent and wants to do right by them, they have, like, a zero-balance in their Chill account. Your last ex talked to you like shit and broke your trust, so now the new guy can't do or say anything you don't like because you're quick to clown on his ass and pull the plug on the relationship. BTW, this is why some guys get it in their minds to treat women like crap in order to get or keep them. Because when you're nice, all you get is the grief and unfinished business from her last relationship. Guys want to be there for you, but they don't necessarily want to be your whipping post or garbage can to throw all your shit in. Sheila needs to make peace with her prior relationship and realize that what she probably should have said and done is irrelevant because that relationship is OVER. You can't square it up with Nate by bravely standing up for yourself over minor, petty shit. More than anything, it's unfair to Nate, and that shit ages you. 

Last thing. If I'm going to be really superficial, I'd say Sheila needs to realize that, at 30, she doesn't have enough room to be throwing away viable relationships on some "Irreplaceable"-I-can-have-another-you-in-a-minute shit. I'm not saying she should stay with Nate or any other man out of desperation, but she's not the belle of the ball, either. If she gets with a guy who has a lot going for him, he's...probably not going to have a lot of patience for her stolen-innocence bullshit. Sheila having a hard time being a Big Girl while dating in her 30s is going to have a hard time, period. Like Samantha from SATC said (I know this is my second week straight using a SATC reference, but they had nuggets of wisdom at times): there are two types of guys out there: the ones who will hold your hand and the ones who fuck you. Sheila, you were lucky MAFS set you up with a guy who seems to want to do the former. Maybe stop taking it for granted.

Edited July 16, 2017 by 27bored

[discoprincess]

On 7/14/2017 at 8:44 AM, SerenityNow721 said:

True, we don't know what Nate said, but we do know that he apologized for it and acknowledged that he crossed a line.  What makes him marriage material to me is when he said I can get pissed off and we can fight, but she'll know this man is still gonna be here (paraphrasing). Isn't that what Sheila said she wanted during their first televised argument on the honeymoon?  Someone to love her when she wasn't easy to love?

I like Sheila, but she doesn't fight fair.  And she doesn't seem to acknowledge when she is wrong.  Or apologize.  She plays dirty when she says she's done - that's not something you just throw out there during a fight - it's a relationship killer.  It's hypocritical for her to say she's in it for life , then bail when shit gets real.

It makes me sad because I think Nate and Sheila could have a great marriage if they learned to fight nicer.  I think Nate is everything Sheila said she wanted in a husband - she just has to get out of her own way.

I wonder why on the one hand when Sheila made a point of not fighting on camera that she would allow this portion of the fight to play out in front of the cameras. Why not take it in the bathroom?

 

She got mad at Nate for saying that he didn't want to be married anymore on the honeymoon, but it's okay for her to say she's quitting now, this late in the experiment? And she made moved out? I wonder how production is going to deal with this.

[Snarklepuss]

25 minutes ago, 27bored said:

As far as the discussion about Sheila dovetailing into a broader discussion about the portrayal of black women on TV is concerned, I gotta say Sheila isn't doing herself or any other black woman any favors by fulfilling stereotypes. Like they always say: stereotypes exist for a reason, and the Angry Black Woman, unfair as it might be at times, seems to fit her.

I can understand hating the fact that Sheila's behavior is looking like she fits a stereotype.  I have been down on these boards for hating the fact that certain reality shows seem to like to pick a "Jersey Shore" type of Italian American, which does get a lot of us Italian Americans pissed off because it feeds into a "Guido" stereotype that most of us hate and want nothing to do with because it's not who we are.  The last thing we need is to have more bad examples out there to feed into racial and cultural stereotypes, but yeah, be mad at the show for that, not mad at the people who pick up on some very real behavior in Sheila that is not about stereotypes, but being a dysfunctional person in relationships. 

Then again, while I do think some reality shows have picked Italian Americans and African Americans specifically to feed into a negative stereotype that they think people find entertaining, I don't think this show picked Sheila specifically because they wanted to go for the drama of the stereotypical angry Black woman.  So I don't even know how much one can blame the show for her behavior.  We all know the show is at least somewhat responsible given the way they seem to want to instigate these couples into conflict.  But how much is on them and how much is Nate's responsibility vs. Sheila's is really unknown.

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, Snarklepuss said:

We all know the show is at least somewhat responsible given the way they seem to want to instigate these couples into conflict.  But how much is on them and how much is Nate's responsibility vs. Sheila's is really unknown.

Yep; we don't know for sure. We do know Sheila's temper, we know her reactivity, but then we see Nate crying. She's not playing nice with production either, & of course we won't know everything that went down or how it happened, but that can't be helping her case either.

Sheila was wounded by her past relationships, & she may even be testing Nate with her behavior. She quite possibly changed her name so early on to make it more difficult (emotionally) for him to leave (who wants to be the ass hole who's brand new stranger wife changed her name for you but you don't want her) yet many wouldn't blame him from what's being shown. I thought even though it was a nice gesture, it probably should've been discussed with him beforehand due to their 'stranger marriage' situation being so young.

I do see Sheila as being triggered (a very overused word for something that is very real) by something in Nate. It may not necessarily be something specific to him as it could happen to her with anyone, since she hasn't worked her past out yet. And he did bring up her past - given that's a sensitive subject to begin with it could cause a huge reaction. But who knows maybe there's some other issues we're not hearing about; they had a discussion about the clubbing, which interestingly was never made a story line & wasn't spoken about again.

No matter what they could use fair fighting & communication sessions. This is the kind of stuff that will breed resentment down the line.

1 hour ago, Snarklepuss said:

I have been down on these boards for hating the fact that certain reality shows seem to like to pick a "Jersey Shore" type of Italian American, which does get a lot of us Italian Americans pissed off because it feeds into a "Guido" stereotype that most of us hate and want nothing to do with because it's not who we are. 

I feel your pain... (sigh).

[Snarklepuss]

13 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

I feel your pain... (sigh).

It's even worse because my mother's family is Sicilian.  I couldn't tell anyone that growing up or I would get asked if I had relatives in the Mafia.  Even the black kids would ask me that!  My husband has a cousin that's part Italian (Neapolitan) and he has a deep prejudice towards Sicilians.  I couldn't believe the way he treated me at a family wedding a few years ago.  He acted like I was the scum of the earth for being Sicilian!  So anyone can be guilty of racial or ethnic prejudice based on stereotypes.

Everyone loved the Sopranos, including my husband.  He didn't understand why I was never 100% comfortable with the show.  I asked him how he would feel if a show came on the air that popularized the negative stereotype of Irish Americans as lazy, dumb drunks.  He still doesn't get it, maybe because he never experienced that kind of prejudice since that stereotype of the Irish disappeared a long time ago.

P.S.  Most Sicilians that came to the US did so to get away from the Mafia.

[2727]

This show isn't at all interested in the "social experiment" aspect of arranged marriages, but it would be an intriguing aspect to delve into.

We don't know how much the experts have been told before they call or visit (I suspect very little because that would take time and money), but imagine they've watched 4-5 hours of footage beforehand so that when they listen to the couples squawk and complain and accuse each other, they can cut through the non-answers and excuses to provide some fact-based, USEFUL advice. A real therapist would kill for that sort of background.

I'd be interested to see the experts lay down some truths and work with the couples to acknowledge and address their own flaws. That might actually help the marriages succeed. General platitudes about being patient and communicating better are worse than no advice at all. There are a hundred freaking episodes -- devote one to in-depth counseling.

[Evil Queen]

11 hours ago, 27bored said:

Sheila isn't getting a bad edit; she's just a transforming ass bitch. She's cool when it's cool, but as soon as Megatron and the other Decepticons decide they're going to save Cybertron by merging it with Earth's life force or whatever, she goes from Chrysler 300 to an Autobot really to roll the fuck out.

LMAO at the Transfomers being used here. 

6 minutes ago, 2727 said:

This show isn't at all interested in the "social experiment" aspect of arranged marriages, but it would be an intriguing aspect to delve into.

We don't know how much the experts have been told before they call or visit (I suspect very little because that would take time and money), but imagine they've watched 4-5 hours of footage beforehand so that when they listen to the couples squawk and complain and accuse each other, they can cut through the non-answers and excuses to provide some fact-based, USEFUL advice. A real therapist would kill for that sort of background.

I'd be interested to see the experts lay down some truths and work with the couples to acknowledge and address their own flaws. That might actually help the marriages succeed. General platitudes about being patient and communicating better are worse than no advice at all. There are a hundred freaking episodes -- devote one to in-depth counseling.

This show isn't interested in anything other than getting drama going. They don't match couples for real reasons other than what one could fix in the other...in other words what could bring out some drama in the pairing. I think the fact that Anthony and Ashley have clicked so well was pure luck and the show was hoping there would be issues there that they didn't get at all....which is where "experts" butting in with their seeds of doubt or producers butting in (last name chat with lady in store, Ashley told to quit playing "bags") comes into play. The fact is the so called "experts" are nothing more then fame whores themselves. They don't care what happens to these people. Well unless its sex then rachel will be there drooling away over it all. There is no way a real therapist that gave a crap about doing their job well and for those they are trying to counsel would do this junk. Which is why we see the jokes we have. Instead of helping the couples with issues and flaws they make them worse because some idiots thing this kind of stuff makes for better tv. SMH

[27bored]

Then again, while I do think some reality shows have picked Italian Americans and African Americans specifically to feed into a negative stereotype that they think people find entertaining, I don't think this show picked Sheila specifically because they wanted to go for the drama of the stereotypical angry Black woman.  So I don't even know how much one can blame the show for her behavior.  We all know the show is at least somewhat responsible given the way they seem to want to instigate these couples into conflict.  But how much is on them and how much is Nate's responsibility vs. Sheila's is really unknown.

I agree. I do think it's harder for producers to craft an entire persona for someone just by editing them a certain way than it is for them to portray certain situations in a certain light. It's like with this last fight between Sheila and Nate. We didn't see every second of the argument but I think we got the beats: Sheila got pissed off at something small; she did what she does, and said something that pissed off Nate; he responded how someone who's pissed off would respond; she got even more offended; he apologized; she left didn't forgive him, and left. Married at First Sight isn't the first reality show ever, and everything you ever see on TV has been edited to some extent, so whatever. I don't think we need to see the whole situation in real time in order to get the gist of what happened. There's little question that Sheila overreacted. I don't want to dump on her as though I'm a huge fan of Nate's -- because I agree with some posters that he does seem to know what to say in a slick kind of way -- but I'm an adult. I get that these are real people in a certain situation where they might be truncated and do versions of themselves. 

But compare that with, say, Anthony and Ashley. Even their "fights" seem fairly tame and underwhelming, almost like the producers are stirring the pot. But I don't get the feeling either one of them is temperamental. Ashley can be a little nerve-y and worrisome at times. I do wonder about how their day-to-day life is going to be like, because it's not all beer and Skittles, and you have to keep up the lovey-doveys when real life starts happening (work, family/friend issues, kids, etc). I don't know if Ashley is ready to deal with Anthony, and vice versa, on that level. Ashley, he's not going to cater to your anxiety full time; Anthony, she's a good girl, but you have to keep her mind at ease by not leaving things for her to stress out over. All that said, their fights seem to have more normal levels of annoyance.

All that aside, speaking of Italian stereotypes, I have a few questions:

1. Is it true that Italian men have a reputation of being lazy?

2. Is Anthony Italian-American?

3. Does Anthony come off a tad lazy to anyone?

[Drogo]

Anthony seemed pretty lazy about filing out that one page credit application for the apartment. Also pretty ballsy of him to get mad at Ashley as if she was interrupting his filling it out, when we all saw him playing with his phone instead. 

[humbleopinion]

I'm attributing Anthony's snappish behavior to the long day of "documenting" their indoors skydiving date through to the evening.

We've all been there...doing a tedious task like paperwork, hungry and if someone looks at you sideways you get snippy and quick tempered.

Anthony have a Snickers....
 

Edited July 16, 2017 by humbleopinion

[gonecrackers]

3 hours ago, 27bored said:

All that aside, speaking of Italian stereotypes, I have a few questions:

1. Is it true that Italian men have a reputation of being lazy?

2. Is Anthony Italian-American?

3. Does Anthony come off a tad lazy to anyone?

1. Not full, but mostly, Italian here; never really saw lazy honestly; definitely controlling behavior, but that could've just been what I've seen & experienced.

2. I believe he said he was full Italian so yes, he's Italian-American.

3. Not to me.... have seen many non Italian men who preferred football to filling out paperwork, among other things.

[LennieBriscoe]

27bored, 

1. Italian-Americans aren't in Italy. You'll have to ask someone there.

2. Yes. This fact was mentioned early as a pertinent feature of his relationship with Italian-American Ashley.

3. No. 

My maternal great-grandparents were from Palermo. My grandfather (and Slovak grandmother) eventually moved to Bayonne,  NJ. My paternal great-grandparents were from County Donegal and settled in the coal-mining area of eastern Pennsylvania.

So I have "this Sicilian thing" (tm Kay Corleone), the Molly Maguires, and Jersey in my DNA. Stereotypes presented for entertainment purposes don't bug me at all! (Take the cannoli.)

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, gonecrackers said:

3. Not to me.... have seen many non Italian men who preferred football to filling out paperwork, among other things.

This is so true. My husband is mix of things but a good part Norwegian. He will blow it off until the last minute or have me do it. Which really I am a bit like Ashley when it comes to getting certain things done. When it came to getting our papers filled out for a home loan and everything else with that I had to do it like I said before. I just told him what to fill in and where to sign on each paper. It got done much faster this way and no time wasted. There are times with things like apartment apps though that I can see wanting done asap. To many areas if you don't jump on the one you want in the moment and you can lose out. Same with houses as well. So I get it. I think if they can make it she will end up just taking the lead and doing it all herself with asking him what this info is and such until she remembers it herself. LOL

12 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

27bored, 

1. Italian-Americans aren't in Italy. You'll have to ask someone there.

2. Yes. This fact was mentioned early as a pertinent feature of his relationship with Italian-American Ashley.

3. No. 

My maternal great-grandparents were from Palermo. My grandfather (and Slovak grandmother) eventually moved to Bayonne,  NJ. My paternal great-grandparents were from County Donegal and settled in the coal-mining area of eastern Pennsylvania.

So I have "this Sicilian thing" (tm Kay Corleone), the Molly Maguires, and Jersey in my DNA. Stereotypes presented for entertainment purposes don't bug me at all! (Take the cannoli.)

I'm not Italian...at least that I know of since one never really knows from what I have found out with doing my families ancestry. I am very Irish, Scottish, German and very Polish....found out some French as well with my searching. County Donegal was where most McGroarty's came from. That is my maternal great-grandmother's maiden name. Her parents (my great, great grandparents) came from Ireland. The other is a Cassidy/Dunne. Beyond that its a loss at this point. My maternal grandfather's side though has some very deep southern roots going very far back and have Scottish blood on either side of his parents (his dad was from Scotland). Some how some ended up all the way west so a Cali girl is I . =P My Irish maternal great, great grandfather came here started up a shoe making business before he brought his wife to be here. So lazy...hell no...none of them ever were and still aren't. We joke about the drinking and a few other things though. Yet there are some things I would probably not take well if people were to mention (and not for entertainment purpose either). 

[Snarklepuss]

6 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

My maternal great-grandparents were from Palermo. My grandfather (and Slovak grandmother) eventually moved to Bayonne,  NJ. My paternal great-grandparents were from County Donegal and settled in the coal-mining area of eastern Pennsylvania.

So I have "this Sicilian thing" (tm Kay Corleone), the Molly Maguires, and Jersey in my DNA. Stereotypes presented for entertainment purposes don't bug me at all! (Take the cannoli.)

My husband's father was born in Donegal.  We went there 12 years ago and I met several of his cousins.  Ireland is really beautiful.  He also has a cousin living in Bayonne on his mother's side that we visit once in a while.  My Sicilian side is from Pacino, diagonally southeast from Palermo on the very southern tip of Sicily.

10 hours ago, 27bored said:

I agree. I do think it's harder for producers to craft an entire persona for someone just by editing them a certain way than it is for them to portray certain situations in a certain light. It's like with this last fight between Sheila and Nate. We didn't see every second of the argument but I think we got the beats: Sheila got pissed off at something small; she did what she does, and said something that pissed off Nate; he responded how someone who's pissed off would respond; she got even more offended; he apologized; she left didn't forgive him, and left. Married at First Sight isn't the first reality show ever, and everything you ever see on TV has been edited to some extent, so whatever. I don't think we need to see the whole situation in real time in order to get the gist of what happened. There's little question that Sheila overreacted. I don't want to dump on her as though I'm a huge fan of Nate's -- because I agree with some posters that he does seem to know what to say in a slick kind of way -- but I'm an adult. I get that these are real people in a certain situation where they might be truncated and do versions of themselves.

In the beginning Sheila made it seem like she was rebelling against the show instigating her and Nate to have fights by trying to have discussions off camera, but as time went on the fights took on a life of their own culminating in this last episode with her storming out.  Now the fights seem very real and so out of control the producer probably had nothing to do with them and gone is the attempt to keep all their dirty laundry "off camera".

10 hours ago, 27bored said:

All that aside, speaking of Italian stereotypes, I have a few questions:

1. Is it true that Italian men have a reputation of being lazy?

2. Is Anthony Italian-American?

3. Does Anthony come off a tad lazy to anyone?

1.  Not that I have ever heard, and in my experience generally not any lazier than anyone else.

2.  Yes.

3.  It's hard to tell because they always film him just sitting somewhere talking which could give that impression.  I also notice he has a bit of a gut so I would speculate that he loves to eat and doesn't spend a lot of time in the gym.  He doesn't act like a lazy person IMO.

[Empress1]

Anthony doesn't strike me as lazy but he may be the sort of person who spends his down time more idly, you know? Like some people bike or do very active things on the weekends, but he prefers to hang out at home.

[gonecrackers]

They said he has a lot of ways he likes to spend his free time (as I recall Pepper mentioning). He doesn't look incredibly active, but that could be deceiving since he likes to eat as well LOL. He did want to do more than Ashley did on the honeymoon; she said he hung out at the bars & on the beach for her, mostly. She took him to the indoor skydiving as something more for him, to enjoy more activities with him, since he likes it. So I'd say he's probably not into running a 5K but he seems to enjoy lots of activities.

Edited July 17, 2017 by gonecrackers