S13.E04: Week 4: Hilton Head Island

[jade.black]

I actually participated in the National Spelling Bee as a kid (thought I was too cool to study and didn't make it too far, but what a great experience) so I LOVED the spelling bee date. It's one of my biggest pet peeves when a person can't spell (which unfortunately my boyfriend cannot and it drives me crazy). Some of the mistakes were ridiculous, but it was also extremely unfair who was given which words. I feel sure that Anthony would have won if they hadn't thrown boutonniere at him, a word that I just had to look up because how often does anyone use it?! 

Peter has gone way down in the ranks for me from spelling coitus with a "qu" to that rap to saying "disingenuine". Meanwhile, Will has risen to the top between apparently being an avid reader, staying out of the drama but running to join the audience, and his dead-on commentary through the end tag. I do wish he had spelled physiological correctly, but I'm going to chalk it up to having to say it out loud instead of writing it down.

So sad to lose Diggy! He was one of the most attractive to me and was so well composed in his exit. Hopefully if rumors are true though,

Spoiler

we'll be seeing him on Paradise.

The editing kind of sucked through that beginning bit. The way it appeared on TV, Rachel heard two of her guys yelling outside and it sent her into a spiraling breakdown about how hard it is to be her. Huh? It makes much more sense to think the producers were making her keep Lee and that's what upset her, but the way they showed it just put her out as emotional over nothing (which doesn't jive with anything we've seen of Rachel in the past).

I loved Alex's purple suit. Also still love adorable Dean, but I have to agree with all the posters who say she is not marrying any of these guys. Dean is too young, Peter is not that bright (but still probably her most likely winner), and Bryan is Josh Murray repackaged and I can't believe she's falling for his sleazy "charms". If she had any sense, she'd take a harder look at Kenny, because he is all there for her and not a bad catch.

Edited June 22, 2017 by jade.black

[Irlandesa]

On 6/20/2017 at 11:39 PM, waving feather said:

It isn't indicative of their intelligence but it does show how much they read or don't. I don't blame some of the guys for getting a few words in between wrong, but Eric and Peter spelling facade and coitus beginning with "ph" and "q" respectively kind of shows to me they don't read widely. Because if you do read (even random magazines), you would at least know what alphabet a word starts with. YMMV.

Sometimes.  But coitus is latin and, I'd argue, not a word one sees written out very often.  I read a lot and I didn't know the spelling for coitus until Sheldon used it quite a bit on The Big Bang Theory which I used to watch--with captions. 

As for "knowing how words begin."  That's not always true in English since we borrow from so many languages. Koi (as in koi pond) is pronounced similarly.  As is coy.  As for q?  Well it does have a 'k' sound.  In fact, quoits is similar sounding to coitus. 

Does that mean I think Peter was aware of this random game's spelling but not coitus?  No.  But while reading can help improve vocabulary, it can also fuck you up. Once upon a time, if you had asked me, out loud, how to spell awry, I'd probably give you something like arye.  If you asked me to say "awry" out loud, you would have gotten something like ""arree."  I was probably in my 20s before I finally made the connection between how the word was written and how it was said. (Which may make me seem like a ditz since I actually did know that they had the same meaning but alas...)

Hell, it took me longer than it should have for me to realize that Ralph Fiennes and Rafe Fiennes were not twin brothers.

On 6/21/2017 at 5:05 AM, JenE4 said:

I don't want to turn this into a whole race sensitivity/understanding tangent, but this is incredibly condescending. It's also "amazing what you can learn" when you're open to hearing WHY certain words and phrases have grossly negative racial connotations. 

Exactly.  I think The Carmichael Show had an interesting episode on this topic tonight.  Jerrod is black and one of his white friends greeted him casually with "my n----a" in front of his family.  Jerrod had no issues with it but his family was appalled.  Same word but different reactions based on their relationship with the word and the guy who said it. And that's the iffy area where we fall with some of the comments made on the show.  Rachel didn't seem to take issue with Dean, and his awareness in this episode justified her faith.  And she seemed to be amused by Peter's rap which could be for numerous reasons including the context and their relationship. But what might work on a smaller scale can trigger nasty stereotypes that are harmful when broadcast on a larger scale.  It's good to consider these things. It doesn't mean anyone who says something racially insensitive needs to be declared a racist.  Rather, it's good to keep trying to be more aware of how old stereotypes are more pervasive and systematic than we might think. 

Heck, I try to be culturally sensitive yet I know I probably fuck up.  A lot. 

On 6/21/2017 at 0:45 PM, Superpole2000 said:

A friend of mine once broke up with someone because she preferred spiral Kraft Dinner to the original version...although I really think that reason was just code for, "She wasn't attractive enough."

I have long felt undateable and wondered why.  But I too prefer the spiral Kraft dinner to the original version. Mystery solved.  I haven't had mac and cheese in 20 years but it's the principle of the thing.  I'd rather stay single.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Irlandesa

[Jax7917]

I have a feeling that Rachel and Peter had a conversation that wasn't aired about talking about the hood beforehand. I think people are blowing this way out of proportion. He was doing a silly rap, his intention clearly wasn't to be racist/ hurt her feelings. Even Rachel was laughing afterward and we all know if she was hurt by it she would have called him out. 

Calling it now that Dean will be the bachelor and Bryan will win. Dean is a little young to be the bachelor, but has the looks and is a fan favorite. I was in between him and Peter but after this episode, I think it will be Dean.

I think Rachel is doing a good job of being the bachelorette, but something about her annoys me. She plays to the camera too much and I liked her a lot on Nick's season, but she seems to have a big head about being the lead. The whole , "I don't want to talk about this and there's so much pressure being in my position", followed by getting up reminded me of a diva Mariah thing to do. Be grateful you are in this position because millions of other girls would love to be.

[truthaboutluv]

YMMV but I think the knee-jerk reaction to some saying they were bothered by Peter's hood comment is what is being blown out of proportion. Many have clearly stated that they don't think Peter is a racist but that they just found the line a little awkward and inappropriate. In my opinion it is this immediate defensiveness whenever some point out something they found uncomfortable or inappropriate that causes conversations that need to happen to never happen.

Edited June 22, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[MakeMeLaugh]

The rapping was so much worse than the rhyme. 

Maybe that crafty Show is just toying with us and trying to make us think Peter is not the front-runner.

[Jax7917]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

YMMV but I think the knee-jerk reaction to some saying they were bothered by Peter's hood comment is what is being blown out of proportion. Many have clearly stated that they don't think Peter is a racist but that they just found the line a little awkward and inappropriate. In my opinion it is this immediate defensiveness whenever some point out something they found uncomfortable or inappropriate that causes conversations that need to happen to never happen.

I don't know. I think people should be able to joke around without having to be being politically correct all the time. I 100 % think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but my own opinion is that it's a little ridiculous for people to be saying that Peter went down in their books and they did a complete 180 on them because of that one line in a lighthearted rap that was meant to be funny and rhyme.

That being said, I do enjoy this board and love listening to all the snark! Keep it coming.

[truthaboutluv]

56 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I don't know. I think people should be able to joke around without having to be being politically correct all the time. I 100 % think everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but my own opinion is that it's a little ridiculous for people to be saying that Peter went down in their books and they did a complete 180 on them because of that one line in a lighthearted rap that was meant to be funny and rhyme.

I actually don't like getting into these kinds of heavy discussions on a message board because I just don't think it's really the place for it. But since you responded politely, I will in kind and try my best to express just my point of view on this because I don't want to speak for anyone else. It's a bit contradictory on your part to say you think everyone is entitled to their opinion but then say you think it's ridiculous for people to say Peter went down in their books for a "lighthearted rap". But that is their opinion and their personal feeling that they are entitled to without having to explain or apologize for feeling that way. The best anecdote I can use to explain my POV, is this. I am not Jewish. If someone made an off-color joke about Jews that a Jewish person found offensive or bothersome but I didn't think was so bad, I am not going to tell that person that it was just a joke, lighten up, etc. That's not my right or my place because my experience is not theirs. 

[Madding crowd]

I think there is almost nothing a person can say or do that will not draw wrath in online communities. I personally think Peter was trying to be funny, but if Rachel was upset by what he said, he owes her an apology. My handsome nephew wants to go on this show but I have advised him against it because you will be torn to pieces what you say even as the show plies you with booze so you are not yourself.

I swooned a bit hearing Anthony likes to read and Josiah can spell. I am a writer and teacher and have a Masters in educational curriculum. Sadly, people are losing the ability to spell due to not having to do it. Someone upthread said that reading books causes you to be able to spell but that isn't strictly true. Writing out words and having to spell them is what causes you to retain the ability to spell. Reading does expose you to words and that helps, but. Its having to do it that really makes the difference. That's why they always have that little test on social media where a paragraph is written with the letters scrambled in a word but you still can read it-because reading allows you to form and recognize patterns, but not always be able to remember spelling.

I think Dean came off very well in this episode and I also like Peter, Kenny, Anthony and Josiah. haven't seen enough of the others to form an opinion. Lee is reprehensible and needs to be gone. The show always has a villain but having a racist villain doesn't sit well with me. 

[Jax7917]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

I actually don't like getting into these kinds of heavy discussions on a message board because I just don't think it's really the place for it. But since you responded politely, I will in kind and try my best to express just my point of view on this because I don't want to speak for anyone else. It's a bit contradictory on your part to say you think everyone is entitled to their opinion but then say you think it's ridiculous for people to say Peter went down in their books for a "lighthearted rap". But that is their opinion and their personal feeling that they are entitled to without having to explain or apologize for feeling that way. The best anecdote I can use to explain my POV, is this. I am not Jewish. If someone made an off-color joke about Jews that a Jewish person found offensive or bothersome but I didn't think was so bad, I am not going to tell that person that it was just a joke, lighten up, etc. That's not my right or my place because my experience is not theirs. 

What I said was, that people are entitled to their own opinion.. and then stated MY OWN opinion. My own opinion is that it's ridiculous. Not sure how that is contradictory. 

[truthaboutluv]

3 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

What I said was, that people are entitled to their own opinion.. and then stated MY OWN opinion. My own opinion is that it's ridiculous. Not sure how that is contradictory. 

It's contradictory because it's basically saying to someone, "okay, you're entitled to that opinion. I mean it's a ridiculous opinion but you're entitled to it." That's not disagreeing, it's being dismissive. 

[Jax7917]

3 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

It's contradictory because it's basically saying to someone, "okay, you're entitled to that opinion. I mean it's a ridiculous opinion but you're entitled to it." That's not disagreeing, it's being dismissive. 

 I thought the whole point of an opinion is that I can find someone else's ridiculous. But let's just agree to disagree because you're right, this isn't the place.

[Lamb18]

My two cents on spelling correctly: It's important if you want people to understand what you're trying to communicate. If I have to stop and reread because words are misspelled, then communication is a failure. Spell check only catches unrecognizable words, but it won't catch "where/wear", "there/their", "it's/its", etc., but misusing those words can cause confusion.

I wish there were sparks between Rachel and Will or Rachel and Anthony, because those are my favorite guys. Maybe one of those two will be the next Bachelor, but I don't either are needy enough for the show's purpose. (That is, once this is over, both will go home to good lives and will be fine if they never have anything to do with The Bachelor franchise again.)

[Agnes Bean]

On 6/21/2017 at 8:24 AM, Ohwell said:

But she's a lawyer so she should know better.

But fuck correct grammar, let's just all make up our own words.  See how far that gets us. 

Yup.

For what it's worth I'm a lawyer from the south, and until this conversation I'm not sure I could have actually told you that one pronunciation was non-standard. I mean, if I thought about it I suppose I would have figured out that there are two pronunciations and one is potentially the correct one, but it has never come up before now. Being a lawyer doesn't mean you have thought about the difference between regional and technically correct pronunciations of ever word in the dictionary. Why would it? 

(I also can't spell to save my life. And I read a lot! But I have to read through my writing extensively to catch all the typos. I would have flopped at this challenge. Though I do agree that there were some misspellings that were so off it raised eyebrows. But the people who just were a bit off? I totally sympathize.) 

[chocolatine]

Of the five foreign languages I've studied, English has the most difficult spelling because there's so little correlation between spelling and pronunciation. I do agree that reading extensively is crucial, because you can't tell how to spell a word just from hearing it, but having to spell out loud is still harder than typing/writing the words. I'd probably get words wrong in a spelling bee that I would spell properly in writing.

Having said all that, I still laughed myself silly at the creative attempts to spell "facade" and "coitus". Can we have a math challenge next?

[wovenloaf]

I still can't believe they gave Josiah "stunning" and then the next guy "boutonnière."  Come on. 

[fib]

5 hours ago, wovenloaf said:

I still can't believe they gave Josiah "stunning" and then the next guy "boutonnière."  Come on. 

Im 100% convinced this was shown out of order.  They cherry picked the moments when Josiah was cocky/entertaining to air. Im sure he was just more entertaining with "stunning" , ("i'd like to use that in a sentence: 'Rachel is a stunning woman' ") than what ever the word before boutonniere was.  

[fib]

5 hours ago, wovenloaf said:

I still can't believe they gave Josiah "stunning" and then the next guy "boutonnière."  Come on. 

Im 100% convinced this was shown out of order.  

Editting my double post to confirm this.  In a cut away from stunning, Eric (eliminated earlier on physde) is shown sitting next to the still-in-contention Will. Then they next cut to Josiah sitting next to Will when Anthony is eliminated on Boutonnière to give us the final 2, Will and Josiah.  

Cant believe i cared this much...

Edited June 23, 2017 by fib
Double post plus more info

[Irlandesa]

7 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

My two cents on spelling correctly: It's important if you want people to understand what you're trying to communicate. If I have to stop and reread because words are misspelled, then communication is a failure. Spell check only catches unrecognizable words, but it won't catch "where/wear", "there/their", "it's/its", etc., but misusing those words can cause confusion.

Very true but not doing well on this type of spelling test isn't necessary indicative of how well someone spells or can communicate since many people spell better being able to see it written out over trying to "see" it in their heads.  In addition, people will also choose which words they're more familiar with while writing and avoid unfamiliar words. Why coitus when you've got S-E-X?

I think the biggest obstacle to good written communication is autocorrect which lately has taken to correcting "you" to "thou" as if I have some weird Shakespeare filter on my phone.  Argh!

[fib]

It also appears that Alex outlasted Bryan, Tickle, Lee, and Peter.  But he and Matt and Bryan got zero airtime.  

6 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Very true but not doing well on this type of spelling test isn't necessary indicative of how well someone spells or can communicate since many people spell better being able to see it written out over trying to "see" it in their heads.  In addition, people will also choose which words they're more familiar with while writing and avoid unfamiliar words. Why coitus when you've got S-E-X?

I think the biggest obstacle to good written communication is autocorrect which lately has taken to correcting "you" to "thou" as if I have some weird Shakespeare filter on my phone.  Argh!

I agree.  But spelling boudoir like Bordeaux, Facade like Physde, etc is a different ballgame than spelling champagne c-h-a-m-p-a-n-g-e.  One of those would be understood.  The others would lead to serious confusion.  

Thine phone is a riot. talk about pucking the worst part of Shakespeare to adopt.  Though at least it isnt turning your texts into iambic pentameter.  

[chocolatine]

28 minutes ago, fib said:

Thine phone is a riot.

Thy phone. (sorry, couldn't resist :P)

[fib]

1 minute ago, chocolatine said:

Thy phone. (sorry, couldn't resist :P)

Apologies.  This show is slaughtering my ability to correctly use grammar. 

I think vocabulary is next. 

[Canada]

So, last week, the preview showed all the racist stupidity supposedly kicking off.  Then we get this nothing episode, where none of it happens and it's all previewed again for next week.  The show has become so lame, using the same tricks constantly, including the stupid 'to be continued' nonsense.  This episode was just irritating.

[violet and green]

4 hours ago, Canada said:

 This episode was just irritating.

Apart from Dean's date. That was sweet to watch.

[Lamb18]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Very true but not doing well on this type of spelling test isn't necessary indicative of how well someone spells or can communicate since many people spell better being able to see it written out over trying to "see" it in their heads.  In addition, people will also choose which words they're more familiar with while writing and avoid unfamiliar words. Why coitus when you've got S-E-X?

I think the biggest obstacle to good written communication is autocorrect which lately has taken to correcting "you" to "thou" as if I have some weird Shakespeare filter on my phone.  Argh!

I agree, I was talking about spelling in written communication.

[b2H]

Wondering about the ratings, as dear Hubby and I are about to pack it in and both of his co-workers that were watching have already quit the show.

Racism and testosterone-based aggression just isn't doing it for us.

[JudyObscure]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 0:52 PM, truthaboutluv said:

The best anecdote I can use to explain my POV, is this. I am not Jewish. If someone made an off-color joke about Jews that a Jewish person found offensive or bothersome but I didn't think was so bad, I am not going to tell that person that it was just a joke, lighten up, etc. That's not my right or my place because my experience is not theirs. 

Apart from the problem of  translating that to a message board where we have no way of telling if someone is Jewish or not, I still can't agree with the premise that if someone of a certain race/religion/ethnicity is offended by a word, that word is then declared offensive and whoever used it is wrong and the offender's intention doesn't matter.

The best anecdote I have is this:  My husband once played trumpet in a jazz band (the band was all black but for him, he is white.)  His favorite song was the jazz standard, "Watermelon Man."  A few years ago we  were in a small club with an all black jazz band.  My husband requested "Watermelon Man," and they almost beat him up.  It took an older black man telling them that was a standard tune, to stop them.  Was my husband wrong?  Should he have been schooled with a "conversation that needs to happen" about the history of an old stereotype about black people liking watermelon?  He's from Minnesota, he had never heard of it.  Should we really be having lessons in small ridiculous old stereotypes like this or should we be letting them slip into oblivion? 

I'll never think the band members were "right," to want to beat up the least prejudiced man I know, simply because they were unfamiliar with a classic of their own music genre.  You seem to be saying they were right simply because they were black and if they found it offensive then it was offensive.  

On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 11:15 PM, Irlandesa said:

I think The Carmichael Show had an interesting episode on this topic tonight.  Jerrod is black and one of his white friends greeted him casually with "my n----a" in front of his family

 That word has never been anything other than offensive and any white person would be a fool to use it in any context. I don't see how it compares to anything Peter said.

[truthaboutluv]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

On 6/22/2017 at 0:52 PM, truthaboutluv said:

 

Apart from the problem of  translating that to a message board where we have no way of telling if someone is Jewish or not, I still can't agree with the premise that if someone of a certain race/religion/ethnicity is offended by a word, that word is then declared offensive and whoever used it is wrong and the offender's intention doesn't matter.

 

That's actually not what I said but I said my piece and was done with the conversation days ago.

[GracieK]

I took Peter's "hood" comment to be more his association of the genre with the hood than with Rachel.. I'm sure he is well aware of how she grew up. Similar to how many associate country music with living in the country or on the ranch/farm. 

Edited June 25, 2017 by GracieK

[piewarmer]

I was SO hoping they'd get to cheese in the quirk/quark/cork bit!

So Rachel likes to leave work, grab a bite and then clean.  SO far from my idea of a relaxing evening (which is likely why my home is a hecking mess).

[waving feather]

4 minutes ago, piewarmer said:

I was SO hoping they'd get to cheese in the quirk/quark/cork bit!

So Rachel likes to leave work, grab a bite and then clean.  SO far from my idea of a relaxing evening (which is likely why my home is a hecking mess).

Since Rachel loves to clean, she would make an ideal spouse. Hehe. Every man/ woman dream partner!

[piewarmer]

On 6/22/2017 at 7:46 PM, fib said:

Apologies.  This show is slaughtering my ability to correctly use grammar. 

I think vocabulary is next. 

It's possible my brain has Bachelor-franchise-atrophied enough that I no longer recall my ACBs.

[CaliCat]

1 hour ago, waving feather said:

Since Rachel loves to clean, she would make an ideal spouse. Hehe. Every man/ woman dream partner!

Ha, that's what I thought!  I had been loving Peter, and then Dean started to win me over, but when Rachel talked about loving to clean...be still my heart. Lol. 

[leighdear]

7 hours ago, waving feather said:

Since Rachel loves to clean, she would make an ideal spouse. Hehe. Every man/ woman dream partner!

That's from a single woman who's never been married or had children. 

Get back to us when you've had to share a bathroom with a husband in the throes of a 72-hour stomach flu while you're trying to potty train your toddler.  

[ByTor]

23 hours ago, waving feather said:

Since Rachel loves to clean, she would make an ideal spouse. Hehe. Every man/ woman dream partner!

Hell, I'll switch teams for that!