Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[dirtypop90]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I disagree, he's looked like he wanted to vomit a few times, and as if he's trying to cover that up.

I admit I roll my eyes through most of their scenes, but I didn't see disgust, just his usual blank expression. I honestly can't tell whether he's turned on or disgusted in his loves scenes with Dany. Recently, he's been looking a little afraid of her but maybe it's just shock at the whole situation. Idk. But I shouldn't have to guess how he's feeling.

10 minutes ago, anamika said:

Maybe Kit Harington stopped giving a damn and stopped acting after only getting height jokes and shit writing for three seasons. 

What is even the point of Jon Snow on the show at this point? Seriously, if he had died three seasons ago, nothing would have changed and things would have gone better for Dany and she would even now be sitting in KL.

Jon's like the most useless character at this point. At least Dany is going out fighting for something that she has gone after since season one and by being a dragon. Jon's entire character is apparently just there to kill Dany and then fuck off to the North to Ghost - with whom he does not even have a relationship anymore because D&D could not be bothered to write even that.

He could be an unsullied at this point. 

[Lemuria]

6 hours ago, loki567 said:

restarting the Night's Watch. 

I know I've asked this before, but this always drives me crazy (well, crazier, anyway  😋).  To what end?  What would they be watching for?  The NK is gone.  The WW are gone.  The AoTD is kaput.  The Wildings are now the Free Folk to the North and can come and go as they please through the Viserion Pass.  

Why do they need a Night's Watch?  

[Raachel2008]

10 minutes ago, anamika said:

Maybe Kit Harington stopped giving a damn and stopped acting after only getting height jokes and shit writing for three seasons. 

What is even the point of Jon Snow on the show at this point? Seriously, if he had died three seasons ago, nothing would have changed and things would have gone better for Dany and she would even now be sitting in KL.

Jon's like the most useless character at this point. At least Dany is going out fighting for something that she has gone after since season one and by being a dragon. Jon's entire character is apparently just there to kill Dany and then fuck off to the North to Ghost - with whom he does not even have a relationship anymore because D&D could not be bothered to write even that.

Because D&D cannot write. They can’t focus on several characters at a time and make it believable for all of them. Take the Sansa/Jon thing for example.

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, Lemuria said:

I know I've asked this before, but this always drives me crazy (well, crazier, anyway  😋).  To what end?  What would they be watching for?  The NK is gone.  The WW are gone.  The AoTD is kaput.  The Wildings are now the Free Folk to the North and can come and go as they please through the Viserion Pass.  

Why do they need a Night's Watch?  

We don't know how the magic works, not completely.  Maybe if Drogon lives (fire) then WW (ice) will possibly return in some way. 

Who knows, I think Jon will have to die once he has finished his tasks, just like Beric.  Show at least, it wasn't killing the NK because he's still alive, and yes, I think he is the PTWP, because without him, they would still be walking.  He rallied up support, and he gave Arya her first sword, he was needed for that, but since he's still alive, maybe there is something else?

If it's killing Dany, maybe he starts to walk north, but dies on the way?

[rmontro]

5 minutes ago, stagmania said:

These are the spoilers that have fully borne out. A few of the items are grouped together in slightly misleading ways, but all of it happened. And they were originally posted MONTHS ago. Seems clear this will be the ending.

Okay, I wanted to say this in a different thread, but it involves spoilers so I will say it here. 

If the message here is that power corrupts, the ending with Bran elected king doesn't work.  Because unless they go with a council ruling Westeros, there will still be throne around to corrupt those who pursue it.  Now you can argue that Bran is a magical, near immortal creature who can fend off all threats to his power, and that Bran cannot be corrupted.  But even if that is so, how is that of any practical use to us in this non-magical world?

Is it possible there is a council to lead Westeros, but Bran is made king of the north?

[Raachel2008]

7 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

I know I've asked this before, but this always drives me crazy (well, crazier, anyway  😋).  To what end?  What would they be watching for?  The NK is gone.  The WW are gone.  The AoTD is kaput.  The Wildings are now the Free Folk to the North and can come and go as they please through the Viserion Pass.  

Why do they need a Night's Watch?  

I see it more like Jon deciding he doesn’t want to be king, and exiling himself as a punishment. 

What I really don’t understand is the leaks that Jon surrenders himself and goes to trial. Judged by whom?

2 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Is it possible there is a council to lead Westeros, but Bran is made king of the north?

Still doesn’t make sense. Why would Bran be King in the North? He isn’t even Bran anymore.

[stagmania]

5 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Okay, I wanted to say this in a different thread, but it involves spoilers so I will say it here. 

If the message here is that power corrupts, the ending with Bran elected king doesn't work.  Because unless they go with a council ruling Westeros, there will still be throne around to corrupt those who pursue it.  Now you can argue that Bran is a magical, near immortal creature who can fend off all threats to his power, and that Bran cannot be corrupted.  But even if that is so, how is that of any practical use to us in this non-magical world?

Is it possible there is a council to lead Westeros, but Bran is made king of the north?

I think they’ll use Bran not being fully human, not “wanting” as the justification and just leave it at that. After the last few weeks I wouldn’t expect them to lay out any kind of coherent argument for this. 

[HeySandyStrange]

I'm curious to see the logic bending they will have to do to make it seem reasonable that Bran becomes the king of Westeros. He seemed to imply that he was no longer really human and couldn't really get involved with the mundane affairs of men (thus why he refused lordship of the North). I figured he would go find some elves and a tree somewhere, in the epilogue.

[lucindabelle]

A lot of the spoilers have come true so I’m forced to admit that next week is going to bite as well.

Well never find out whether rhaegar had grounds for annulment.

well never find out more about the night king and the white walkers.

so disgusted.

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Okay, I wanted to say this in a different thread, but it involves spoilers so I will say it here. 

If the message here is that power corrupts, the ending with Bran elected king doesn't work.  Because unless they go with a council ruling Westeros, there will still be throne around to corrupt those who pursue it.  Now you can argue that Bran is a magical, near immortal creature who can fend off all threats to his power, and that Bran cannot be corrupted.  But even if that is so, how is that of any practical use to us in this non-magical world?

Is it possible there is a council to lead Westeros, but Bran is made king of the north?

I don't think he is "KING" but I could believe he oversees a council.

Bran is not human.  He's the 3ER, not Bran.  He has no desire for power at all.  His desire is to help humanity survive, and to survive himself so that happens.

[ShellsandCheese]

The more I think about it, the more I’m okay with Dany destroying King’s Landing. It probably had to happen. It’s fitting that Dany would be the one to destroy it with Drogon, since it only exists because her ancestors found it / forged it because they had dragons. I’d be okay with an ending wherein Dany brings about the full dissolution of the sort of United Seven Kingdoms - that would be fitting again since it was her ancestors who brought it all together. That would be in awesome full circle ending. But I don’t think it will happen. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by ShellsandCheese

[SeanC]

15 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

We don't know how the magic works, not completely.  Maybe if Drogon lives (fire) then WW (ice) will possibly return in some way. 

We do know how the magic works, though - the Children made the Night King; there's nothing more to it than that, no grand cosmic reason for him to exist, etc.

9 minutes ago, rmontro said:

If the message here is that power corrupts, the ending with Bran elected king doesn't work.  Because unless they go with a council ruling Westeros, there will still be throne around to corrupt those who pursue it.  Now you can argue that Bran is a magical, near immortal creature who can fend off all threats to his power, and that Bran cannot be corrupted.  But even if that is so, how is that of any practical use to us in this non-magical world?

Is it possible there is a council to lead Westeros, but Bran is made king of the north?

Why would a council not be subject to corruption?

No, the spoilers are explicit that Bran is King of Westeros, and his final scene is with his council in the south.  Sansa is in the North running things as Lady.

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I don't think he is "KING"

The accurate spoilers say that he is king.

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, SeanC said:

We do know how the magic works, though - the Children made the Night King; there's nothing more to it than that, no grand cosmic reason for him to exist, etc.

Why would a council not be subject to corruption?

No, the spoilers are explicit that Bran is King of Westeros, and his final scene is with his council in the south.  Sansa is in the North running things as Lady.

The accurate spoilers say that he is king.

The council would be, but Bran could foresee it and stop it.  Or rather, the 3ER could.

[Couver]

7 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Why would a council not be subject to corruption?

Exactly. And if the spoilers are to be believed. There are corrupt people on the council. Tyrion was not a good man until a few seasons into the show. He was happy to whoremogger and drink until he had a change of heart. He has also shown a weakness in wanting to keep House Lannister alive and suffers from arrogance and hubris of his own.

Bronn is criminal trash. The character is right that the nobles were no better. But the character has also never done a selfless thing without the possibility of something to gain for doing it. That isn't benevolent rulership.

Sam is a decent council candidate. But I wish the show had built him up as a bit more sure of himself. Episode 3 actually backslid by making him look like a coward.

Brienne should absolutely be on this council. As she has shown time and time again that she will do what is right. And Podrick should be there over someone like Bronn.

A decent council would be Davos, Brienne, Pod, Sam. These people I could see doing well by the common people.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Couver

[lucindabelle]

I don’t think I’ve even got a watch next week. It totally looks like we’re getting a massage in a stick ending, especially if Brienne  isn’t even on the council. And if Tyrion is. I mean we’ve now seeing that Dany was completely right to question his loyalty is an ask about his being a Lannister all these years because push came to show of he put his Lannister brother even if it meant saving his Lannister sister above the war at hand.

[Leila6]

More detail from the accurate spoilers:

On Jon killing Dany, he tone of it is very tragic. It's kind of like she's completely consumed by madness and he's saying how much he loves her and he's loyal to her, then he stabs her when he gets close enough. It's obviously traumatizing for him to do because he does love her. 

Why Jon kills her? At that point Jon is horrified by what Dany has done to King's Landing, and she gives speeches about how she'll keep doing it to free slaves from their chains. He's also convinced by Tyrion that his family will never be safe because he presents a threat to her rule, so he's motivated by that as well, I'm sure.

After Dany takes KL, Dany gives a speech about freeing slaves across the world, etc. Some scenes where characters are reflecting on the devastation she's caused. Some scenes where they're deciding how to handle Tyrion, who's a prisoner. If it does happen in episode 6, there's probably 40-50 minutes of buildup before Jon actually commits to killing Dany.

Not sure what was filmed in Dragon Pit.

Not sure on Vary's betrayal. Tyrion gets arrested because he frees Jaime to try to save Cersei, I think. His arrest definitely happens after that and there's no way that it's not a factor in it

Unless they filmed alternate scenes where Tyrion dies and invested in post-production to polish those scenes with ADR, CGI, editing, etc for some inexplicable reason to throw off a tiny minority of the viewer base, Tyrion lives and will be on Bran's small council.

Jon surrenders to the Unsullied after killing Dany.

Jon doesn't kill Dany in a moment of madness. It's more like she becomes hellbent on a particular mode of justice that Jon realizes he will not be able to discourage.

In the epilogue, the unsullied leave to cross the sea and start liberating slave cities on their own, because that's Dany's plan before Jon kills her -- she has this big speech scene, after sacking King's Landing, where she's talking about wrecking the world, liberating all of the slaves from their masters. [Emilia mentioned giving a big speech in multiple languages—this must be it.]

When they're deciding who to elect as king, Sam suggests holding a democratic election and the other nobles laugh at him. That's before they vote on Bran.

On Jon taking the black: I'm really unclear about why Jon takes the black, but it seems more like he makes the decision himself, or that he makes the decision in conjunction with other people. It doesn't seem like he's forced to do it, or at least not that he's doing it against his will. He's pretty defeated after killing Dany. I don't know 100% about Jon's epilogue but he's not just going north to just retire out in the wild, it's definitely related to the Night's Watch. Taking the black is what makes him no longer a legitimate heir to the throne.

[rmontro]

11 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I’d be okay with an ending wherein Dany brings about the full dissolution of the sort of United Seven Kingdoms - that would be fitting again since it was her ancestors who brought it all together. That would be in awesome full circle ending. But I don’t think it will happen. 

That would be a more acceptable ending, and it would make more sense, and give a greater feeling of closure, to end the Iron Throne.  But it sounds like they're going to put Bran on it.  Maybe they'll melt down the throne and just call Bran King, without using the Iron Throne, but that's just symbolism.

The council could be subject to corruption, but it would have a magical fantasy being overseeing it to put a stop to its corruption - IF that magical fantasy being is interested enough to put in the effort.  Again, not a very satisfying ending. 

[Couver]

5 minutes ago, Leila6 said:

More detail from the accurate spoilers:

On Jon killing Dany, he tone of it is very tragic. It's kind of like she's completely consumed by madness and he's saying how much he loves her and he's loyal to her, then he stabs her when he gets close enough. It's obviously traumatizing for him to do because he does love her. 

Why Jon kills her? At that point Jon is horrified by what Dany has done to King's Landing, and she gives speeches about how she'll keep doing it to free slaves from their chains. He's also convinced by Tyrion that his family will never be safe because he presents a threat to her rule, so he's motivated by that as well, I'm sure.

After Dany takes KL, Dany gives a speech about freeing slaves across the world, etc. Some scenes where characters are reflecting on the devastation she's caused. Some scenes where they're deciding how to handle Tyrion, who's a prisoner. If it does happen in episode 6, there's probably 40-50 minutes of buildup before Jon actually commits to killing Dany.

Not sure what was filmed in Dragon Pit.

Not sure on Vary's betrayal. Tyrion gets arrested because he frees Jaime to try to save Cersei, I think. His arrest definitely happens after that and there's no way that it's not a factor in it

Unless they filmed alternate scenes where Tyrion dies and invested in post-production to polish those scenes with ADR, CGI, editing, etc for some inexplicable reason to throw off a tiny minority of the viewer base, Tyrion lives and will be on Bran's small council.

Jon surrenders to the Unsullied after killing Dany.

Jon doesn't kill Dany in a moment of madness. It's more like she becomes hellbent on a particular mode of justice that Jon realizes he will not be able to discourage.

In the epilogue, the unsullied leave to cross the sea and start liberating slave cities on their own, because that's Dany's plan before Jon kills her -- she has this big speech scene, after sacking King's Landing, where she's talking about wrecking the world, liberating all of the slaves from their masters. [Emilia mentioned giving a big speech in multiple languages—this must be it.]

When they're deciding who to elect as king, Sam suggests holding a democratic election and the other nobles laugh at him. That's before they vote on Bran.

On Jon taking the black: I'm really unclear about why Jon takes the black, but it seems more like he makes the decision himself, or that he makes the decision in conjunction with other people. It doesn't seem like he's forced to do it, or at least not that he's doing it against his will. He's pretty defeated after killing Dany. I don't know 100% about Jon's epilogue but he's not just going north to just retire out in the wild, it's definitely related to the Night's Watch. Taking the black is what makes him no longer a legitimate heir to the throne.

Any indication what happens to Drogon?

[rmontro]

5 minutes ago, Leila6 said:

In the epilogue, the unsullied leave to cross the sea and start liberating slave cities on their own, because that's Dany's plan before Jon kills her

That's a nice legacy left from Dany, and an appropriate purpose for them considering the Unsullied's origins.  Assuming this is done in a positive light.

Any clue on what happens to Drogon?

[ShellsandCheese]

1 minute ago, Couver said:

Any indication what happens to Drogon?

Probably somewhere taking a nap. He’s got to be exhausted after all that work he put in destroying King’s Landing and The Iron Fleet. He needs to eat, rest, and recharge. 

[anamika]

And so it begins:

Quote

The actor who plays Lord Varys in Game of Thrones has candidly admitted to being frustrated with the past few seasons of the show.

*Spoilers for season eight, episode five below*

Conleth Hill, who has played the Spider on the HBO show since its very first season, was speaking to Entertainment Weekly following the broadcast of his character's death scene: after flipping his allegiance to Jon Snow, Tyrion ratted him out to Daenerys who ordered Drogon to incinerate him.

"I took it very personally," he said. "I took it as a person, not as an actor or an artist. I understood the reactions of previous actors who had been in same position a lot more than I did at the time. You can’t help feeling that you failed in some way, that you haven’t lived up to some expectation that you didn’t know about."

Hill did reveal, though, that he felt Varys had been done a disservice in recent seasons.

That’s been my feeling the last couple seasons, that my character became more peripheral, that they concentrated on others more. That’s fine. It’s the nature of a multi-character show."

He continued: "It was kind of frustrating. As a whole it’s been overwhelmingly positive and brilliant but I suppose the last couple seasons weren’t my favourite. It just felt like after season six, I kind of dropped off the edge.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/game-of-thrones/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-varys-death-scene-conleth-hill-character-plot-a8910981.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true

[Umbelina]

By the way, the episode title was "THE BELLS" so I guess us spoiled folk know why they withheld it.

[Raachel2008]

12 minutes ago, Leila6 said:

Taking the black is what makes him no longer a legitimate heir to the throne.

I get it now: Jon doesn’t want to rule, but as long as he is the heir Westeros can’t move forward. So he takes the black to be ‘inelegible’, just like Master Aemon. Hopefully this time the crowns can have families and such.

21 minutes ago, Couver said:

Tyrion was not a good man until a few seasons into the show. He was happy to whoremogger and drink until he had a change of heart. He has also shown a weakness in wanting to keep House Lannister alive and suffers from arrogance and hubris of his own.

And none of this equals to corruption.

[ShellsandCheese]

It’s more of the same though. How is this council any different then a King and his small council. It’s not. 

[Couver]

12 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

It’s more of the same though. How is this council any different then a King and his small council. It’s not. 

That's my issue with it. Also the Targaryen legacy is always used against Dany. But people will be fine with a Lannister, son of Tywin and brother of the most recently Queen on the council.

If you want to really do something different then there shouldn't be any one from a major house on this council. And certainly not someone who is a corrupt person.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Couver

[anamika]

7 minutes ago, Couver said:

That's my issue with it. Also the Targaryen legacy is always used against Dany. But people will be fine with a Lannister, son of Tywin and brother of the most recently Queen on the council.

If you want to really do something different then there shouldn't be any one from a major house on this council. 

I think we should know better than to make sense of D&D's writing at this point. It is what it is.

Dany has already been at the end of a lot of double standards. So arguing about why this makes sense when that does not is not going to get us any answers.

I guess Dany is genetically mad because Targ and everyone else is not and hence they will rule and be on the council and all that.

Tyrion is also the noblest of men on the show.

Kit predicted years ago that Tyrion was going to end up ruling Westeros because he was most qualified. So he was lying when he talked about how he never guessed the ending.

[Umbelina]

a few good insights here

[Lemuria]

A Night’s Watch of one? There is no Night’s Watch anymore. It’s defunct. It’s a former Night’s Watch. It’s most sincerely dead. Which means, there’s also no oath. Jon could just publicly renounce his Targ heritage and refuse the throne and it would have the same effect. 

I’d say this is too ridiculous to be true but, hey, this is D&D we’re talking about. 

King Bran and his council—yep, why not turn Westeros into a theocracy. It’s worked so well on Earth. And since Bran doesn’t care about the day-to-day stuff, it’s ripe to have the same corrupting effect. 

Besides, the ending to the series is totally not bittersweet. It’s hugely tragic. 

[rmontro]

31 minutes ago, anamika said:

Conleth Hill, who has played the Spider on the HBO show since its very first season, was speaking to Entertainment Weekly following the broadcast of his character's death scene: after flipping his allegiance to Jon Snow, Tyrion ratted him out to Daenerys who ordered Drogon to incinerate him.

"I took it very personally," he said. "I took it as a person, not as an actor or an artist. I understood the reactions of previous actors who had been in same position a lot more than I did at the time. You can’t help feeling that you failed in some way, that you haven’t lived up to some expectation that you didn’t know about."

I like this, because it shows that the actors become emotionally invested in their characters over time, just as the viewers do (well, some of us, anyway).  And eight years is a long time to live with a character as closely as they do.  You can see the same thing in the eyes of Emilia Clarke when she's been asked about the ending.  So it's nice to see this sort of thing coming from some of the actors.

That's why I like the news about the Unsullied embarking on a new mission to liberate slaves overseas (hopefully Grey Worm is among them).  That's what I've been looking for, some small positive to come from Dany's death, just so it won't seem to be so totally in vain.  That would be such a nice legacy for her, and also for Missendei, who began and ended her life in chains.

I wonder what happens with the Dothraki?  They don't seem to really fit in Westeros.

8 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

A Night’s Watch of one? There is no Night’s Watch anymore. It’s defunct. It’s a former Night’s Watch. It’s most sincerely dead. 

I'm not sure what the state of the Night Watch is.  But once the council begins action, and starts having trials and such, I'm sure they'll be supplying plenty of people to send up and man the Wall.  But t question comes up what the purpose of the Night Watch even is anymore, since the Night King was defeated.

Edited May 13, 2019 by rmontro

[Minneapple]

46 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Any clue on what happens to Drogon?

There was a spoiler that Drogon flies off with Dany's body. Not sure how accurate that is.

There was also a spoiler that when Jon goes back North, he's searching for the wildlings and comes across wildling bodies in the spiral shape that the Night King was leaving all over the place.

[ulkis]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Maybe Kit Harington stopped giving a damn and stopped acting after only getting height jokes and shit writing for three seasons. 

What is even the point of Jon Snow on the show at this point? Seriously, if he had died three seasons ago, nothing would have changed and things would have gone better for Dany and she would even now be sitting in KL.

Jon's like the most useless character at this point. At least Dany is going out fighting for something that she has gone after since season one and by being a dragon. Jon's entire character is apparently just there to kill Dany and then fuck off to the North to Ghost - with whom he does not even have a relationship anymore because D&D could not be bothered to write even that.

He still had more point than Jaime whose entire purpose on the show was to be his sister's lacky.

And yes, what's with the height jokes? The guy's not THAT short.

[anamika]

Quote

What about Bran? Why did we watch that motherf*cker crawl for 10 years in the direction of a tree? Where was he in the two most expected wars in the series?

From the youtube comments for next episode, lol! Reading episode reactions is more fun these days!

Why did Bran save Jaime's life at his Northern trial and indicate he was important? So that he could kill 10 wights?

Edited May 13, 2019 by anamika

[Oscirus]

1 hour ago, lucindabelle said:

I don’t think I’ve even got a watch next week. It totally looks like we’re getting a massage in a stick ending, especially if Brienne  isn’t even on the council. And if Tyrion is. I mean we’ve now seeing that Dany was completely right to question his loyalty is an ask about his being a Lannister all these years because push came to show of he put his Lannister brother even if it meant saving his Lannister sister above the war at hand. 

He didn't rescue his brother to rescue the lannisters, he did so to stop the city from being burned to the ground and he did so knowing he was signing his own death warrant. He put the life of the city above his own. 

The spoilers are fine but they're not telling the full story so they look a lot worse than some of them actually are.

[ShellsandCheese]

11 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

He didn't rescue his brother to rescue the lannisters, he did so to stop the city from being burned to the ground and he did so knowing he was signing his own death warrant. He put the life of the city above his own. 

The spoilers are fine but they're not telling the full story so they look a lot worse than some of them actually are.

I disagree with this. He had no problems with his sister blowing up the Sept and he himself had no problems using Wildfire. Don’t let his for the people schtick fool you. Tyrion has always been about himself and his family first. 

I’d go so far as to argue that none of main characters outside of Jon and Davos (and maybe Dany circa season six) care about anyone but themselves. They aren’t thinking about the common folk when they are playing GoT, or trying to get Northern Independence, or trying to sow chaos and insurrection; it’s all for selfish reasons no matter how they try to paint a pretty picture. 

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Nailed it.

Oh by the way, in the books anyway, there quite possible is a surviving Stark.  Robb's wife is a different person, and she wasn't stabbed in the stomach or killed at the Frey's.  That baby will grow up if she survives, and it's probably a boy.

In the books Jeyne's mother was giving her potions to prevent a pregnancy. So I doubt there is baby Robb in the oven.

1 hour ago, Lemuria said:

A Night’s Watch of one?

But doesn't it just feel so Jon?

[Oscirus]

3 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I disagree with this. He had no problems with his sister blowing up the Sept and he himself had no problems using Wildfire. Don’t let his for the people schtick fool you. Tyrion has always been about himself and his family first. 

I’d go so far as to argue that none of main characters outside of Jon and Davos (and maybe Dany circa season six) care about anyone but themselves. They aren’t thinking about the common folk when they are playing GoT, or trying to get Northern Independence, or trying to sow chaos and insurrection; it’s all for selfish reasons no matter how they try to paint a pretty picture. 

From season 2, on, tyrion has been all about the common folk. Yea he did want some recognition and yes in season 4 he was pissed off about the lack of recognition, but he's always been about doing for the common folk. He just tends to approach things from a noble's pov so some of his ideas for ruling fail to work when they take that weakness into account.

As for his use of wildfire it was contained to the water against soldiers he was fighting  and not just some haphazard application of it.  As for his sister's use of the wildfire, Im sure he did mind, but he was busy doing other things at the moment so the edit didn't have time to show his reaction. 

The problem is that this is a show that tries to make fun of the Nobles told from the view of the nobles so basically everything they do comes off as rich people problems.

[Umbelina]

Well, we know why Jon kills Dany.

Not only did she murder thousands of people, she is obviously going to kill Sansa.

[GraceK]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

Well, we know why Jon kills Dany.

Not only did she murder thousands of people, she is obviously going to kill Sansa.

I hope she succeeds. Unfortunately, we are not that lucky.

[WearyTraveler]

The reviews are pouring in, and most don't seem to be very positive.  I liked this one from VOX

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/5/13/18617316/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-recap-the-bells-winners-losers

They hit on the general feelings I have regarding the apparent direction where the show is going and this writer has accurately guessed that Jon will kill Dany in the finale, although he thinks Jon will then be killed, which is not what is happening as per the spoiler source that has been accurate so far.

I particularly agree with this part:

Quote

Loser: the “Inside Game of Thrones” segments at the end of each episode

Honestly, these are the stupidest fucking things. Have you ever watched them? Scenes from the episode replay, while showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss try to explain what’s happening in them.

And the one for “The Bells” takes the cake in terms of having the showrunners tell us what we’ve just watched. They say, in essence, that Daenerys is triggered by the sight of the Red Keep, which was taken from her family, which prompts her to ... burn a bunch of people who had nothing to do with that? I mean, maybe. Sure. I could see it. But what Benioff and Weiss describe has little to no relationship with what we’ve just seen onscreen.

I realize the joke is on me for actually watching these things, when I know they’re going to have next to nothing insightful to say about what I’ve just seen. But even by bottom-of-the-barrel standards of segments meant to discuss an episode you’ve just watched in the most superficial way possible, they’re so, so bad. Benioff and Weiss either don’t want to share insight into their characters or can’t. HBO should just dump these segments entirely.

And I snorted at this:

Quote

Loser: anybody who named their kid Khaleesi

Every year since Game of Thrones debuted in 2011, we’ve heard about how many Game of Thrones baby names there are, and every year, I think, “Boy, shouldn’t you wait for the show to end?” This is why, people. This is why.

It made me remember this one time I was in a shopping center and this little girl ran past me and her mother followed yelling: "Cersei, stop that, right now!!"

Edited May 13, 2019 by WearyTraveler

[Stallion12]

4 hours ago, SeanC said:

We do know how the magic works, though - the Children made the Night King; there's nothing more to it than that, no grand cosmic reason for him to exist, etc.

Why would a council not be subject to corruption?

No, the spoilers are explicit that Bran is King of Westeros, and his final scene is with his council in the south.  Sansa is in the North running things as Lady.

The accurate spoilers say that he is king.

They've gotten a few minor details off, it's possible the king part is one of tgem.

[BooBear]

I am concerned now that the most severe spoilers are true. That next week Dany will just start executing the remaining people of Kings Landing and force Jon and the Starks hand to have to kill her.  There is a spoiler that says that Tyrion, while under arrest, advises Jon that unless he kills Dany his family will never be safe because they know of his claim. This seems right on the money. 

But again, if Jon had not betrayed her... she wouldn't have this problem right now. 

If I were Dany I would fly on up to Winterfell and have Sansa, Samwell, and everyone else killed right now. They have proven the will stab her in the back for no good reason.

I feel for the people of Westeros. They will suffer now because from the moment she arrived with good intentions they flipped her the bird. 

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, BooBear said:

But again, if Jon had not betrayed her... she wouldn't have this problem right now. 

When did that happen?

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, BooBear said:

I feel for the people of Westeros. They will suffer now because from the moment she arrived with good intentions they flipped her the bird. 

WHAT?

Yeah, someone comes in proclaiming herself Queen of a country, with dangerous dragons, and you honestly think they would WELCOME her, or fire breathing dragons the size of a rather large house?  😂 

[HunterHunted]

For a long time, I've felt like who ended up ruling would depend on which remaining characters fit into either the mother or the father spot in the Faith of the Seven. In the faith, there is the mother, maiden, crone, father, warrior, smith, and the stranger. Sansa is the maiden. I believe Bran is the crone. It could be Sam, but I don't think he's an important enough character to be included. I think we're meant to think Jon is the warrior, but the spoilers seem to suggest that he's both the warrior and the father. While we've seen a bunch of evidence that Arya is the stranger/death, including her leaving on a pale horse, she's only leaving because the Hound convinced her to give up on her quest for death and vengeance. So it's possible that Arya is now the warrior. Brienne could be too, but I'm doubtful. The smith could be Gendry because he's literally a blacksmith, but the smith is also known for creating. This means it could be Tyrion. And while, they've spent years calling Daenerys mother of dragons and mhysa, I think she's the stranger. 

[BooBear]

10 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

WHAT?

Yeah, someone comes in proclaiming herself Queen of a country, with dangerous dragons, and you honestly think they would WELCOME her, or fire breathing dragons the size of a rather large house?  😂 

She saved them all from the night king at great cost to herself... what did she get for it?  Seeing her performance last night she could have stacked Kings landing two years ago and taken on the night king with ease. 

[Eyes High]

4 hours ago, Oscirus said:

From season 2, on, tyrion has been all about the common folk. Yea he did want some recognition and yes in season 4 he was pissed off about the lack of recognition, but he's always been about doing for the common folk. He just tends to approach things from a noble's pov so some of his ideas for ruling fail to work when they take that weakness into account.

Yes, and I think it's extremely telling that apart from Varys, Tyrion is the only one who seemed to give a shit about the thousands of innocent people that were going to die in KL and tried to do something to prevent it. Jon didn't care, only robotically repeating that Dany was his queen. Sansa didn't care, gloating to Jaime about how she was going to miss Cersei's execution. Bran certainly didn't care. And Arya and Sandor wanted revenge against Cersei and the Mountain (respectively), not to save lives.

5 hours ago, Lemuria said:

King Bran and his council—yep, why not turn Westeros into a theocracy. It’s worked so well on Earth. And since Bran doesn’t care about the day-to-day stuff, it’s ripe to have the same corrupting effect. 

King Bran, Schming Bran: it's obviously going to be Tyrion running things with Bran as his puppet. The council will be composed of not Starks or Northmen supportive of Bran and the Starks but Tyrion, one of Tyrion's cronies who will owe everything he has to Tyrion, and a hypeman who shares Tyrion's concern for the common folk and who seems to be able to get along with Tyrion despite their baggage.

6 hours ago, Couver said:

Bronn is criminal trash. The character is right that the nobles were no better. But the character has also never done a selfless thing without the possibility of something to gain for doing it. That isn't benevolent rulership.

Sam is a decent council candidate. But I wish the show had built him up as a bit more sure of himself. Episode 3 actually backslid by making him look like a coward.

Brienne should absolutely be on this council. As she has shown time and time again that she will do what is right. And Podrick should be there over someone like Bronn.

A decent council would be Davos, Brienne, Pod, Sam. These people I could see doing well by the common people.

Brienne and Sam have no loyalty to Tyrion. Brienne's a Stark loyalist, which would actually weaken Tyrion, and I doubt she's overly fond of Lannisters after what Jaime did to her. It makes sense that Tyrion would stack the council with people with whom he has a good working relationship and whose loyalty he can command (for the right price, in Bronn's case).

Bronn may be criminal trash, but he has never lied to Tyrion about who or what he is, and for someone like Tyrion with a history of getting jerked around by people he trusted, that probably goes a long way. Tyrion will need people he can trust on his council, and a lord who owes his title and lands to Tyrion and with whom he has a previous good working relationship (as long as Bronn was getting paid) seems like an obvious choice. Also, Sam can be an underhanded little shit, as we saw in S8. I'd pick Bronn in Tyrion's position as well.

Davos is a good man whose loyalty is unquestioned once he truly believes in someone. If Tyrion could sell Davos on his vision for Westeros, I'm sure he'd have a reliable advisor for life.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Eyes High

[BooBear]

17 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

When did that happen?

As she said, she told him NOT to tell his sisters of his background... he did, this threatens her reign.  He is straight up a traitor. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by BooBear

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, BooBear said:

17 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

When did that happen?

As she said, she told him NOT to tell her sisters of his background... he did, this threatens her reign.  He is straight up a traitor. 

Wow.  Ha!  She really is a dictator if you think it's OK for her to tell him to lie to his own family about something that affects him and them.  He never agreed not to tell his sisters.

If anyone is a traitor it's her, he's the rightful King, and she knows she's only pretending to be.

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, BooBear said:

She saved them all from the night king at great cost to herself... what did she get for it?  Seeing her performance last night she could have stacked Kings landing two years ago and taken on the night king with ease. 

Only no, she couldn't.  Fire didn't kill the NK, he could walk right through it. 

It needed that special dragon glass knife that had made him.  It needed Bran the 3ER as bait, or he would have never shown himself.

Also, no one in Kings Landing saw any of that, or anyone else in Westeros either. 

[BooBear]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

Wow.  Ha!  She really is a dictator if you think it's OK for her to tell him to lie to his own family about something that affects him and them.  He never agreed not to tell his sisters.

She is his queen, he pledged loyalty to her. What is the point of that if he does what he wants. He has now forced her hand... the secret always puts her reign in doubt. Either keep it to yourself or die. Simple. 

Just now, Umbelina said:

Only no, she couldn't.  Fire didn't kill the NK, he could walk right through it. 

It needed that special dragon glass knife that had made him.  It needed Bran the 3ER as bait, or he would have never shown himself.

Also, no one in Kings Landing saw any of that, or anyone else in Westeros either. 

What? Everyone saw that... all the people up north and they shunned Dany for being who she was.. blood is non their hands.