Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Minneapple]

27 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

There's no way Cersei is pregnant. She used this so-called pregnancy as a shield and to make herself seem more vulnerable to Tyrion and Jaime and now she's telling Euron that she's pregnant with his kid. 

Yeah, I think she was either faking the pregnancy to start with or had an offscreen miscarriage. 

[nikma]

Sansa was so much like Cersei in that scene with Jaime. She looked so evil. And I liked it. Lol

[Bianca Castafiore]

21 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

There's no way Cersei is pregnant. She used this so-called pregnancy as a shield and to make herself seem more vulnerable to Tyrion and Jaime and now she's telling Euron that she's pregnant with his kid. 

Jaime being all about Cersei is not a stretch, especially on the show. But there is zero excuse for Tyrion. And this guy will end up on a council to rule them all? Really? 

I'm not sure. I think they are leaving the pregnancy question unanswered for a reason related to her death. It's either

1. Used as a gory visual as I mentioned before.

2. She is indeed pregnant and Jamie tries to save her (so his action is kinda justified)

3. She reveals her lie to Jamie and it's the last straw for him and decides to kill her.

Funny that we have spoilers matching both 2 and 3..

As for Tyrion, I think we are supposed to believe that he cares tremendously for that baby, even more than Cersei herself. But It's really baffling. Why? Is it established that he can't have children on his own?

Unless him freeing Jamie is his last attemt to avoid the bloodbath by pushing Jamie to kill Cersei before everything goes to hell. I dunno..

[WindyNights]

1 minute ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

I'm not sure. I think they are leaving the pregnancy question unanswered for a reason related to her death. It's either

1. Used as a gory visual as I mentioned before.

2. She is indeed pregnant and Jamie tries to save her (so his action is kinda justified)

3. She reveals her lie to Jamie and it's the last straw for him and decides to kill her.

Funny that we have spoilers matching both 2 and 3..

As for Tyrion, I think we are supposed to believe that he cares tremendously for that baby, even more than Cersei herself. But It's really baffling. Why? Is it established that he can't have children on his own?

Unless him freeing Jamie is his last attemt to avoid the bloodbath by pushing Jamie to kill Cersei before everything goes to hell. I dunno..

I’m just going to guess that Tyrion suffers from a severe erectile dysfunction which is he’s celibate now and he realizes he can’t have kids. 

The future of House Lannister will die with Jaime and Cersei. That’s my guess.

[Constantinople]

2 hours ago, nikma said:

Well my guess is that it was decision influenced by financial reasons, because it's not like they didn't work much longer and harder on these 13 episodes. So argument that they are tired and just want to move on never made any sense to me.

They spent 16 months shooting these 13 episodes. And in the past they were able to do 10 episodes in 5 and half months. Does this seems like something people who just want to move on do?

But no point in this discussion because we will never know.  This narrative that D&D are idiots and hacks and they betrayed HBO, poor GRRM, actors, directors and everyone else is completely unfair. IMO.

And that's everything I have to say on this topic. 

D&D might well be burned out.  For them it's not just the shooting, but the writing and the post production. I recall seeing some interview in which Benioff said the last season was broken in two because they needed more time; that as of Season 6, people were working on the episode until practically the last minute

That Dany "kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet" suggests they weren't on their A game.

[Eyes High]

7 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

As for Tyrion, I think we are supposed to believe that he cares tremendously for that baby, even more than Cersei herself. But It's really baffling. Why? Is it established that he can't have children on his own?

He feels tremendous guilt over Tommen and Myrcella's deaths. Cersei blames him for it in 7x07, and he appears to accept the blame.

4 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

I’m just going to guess that Tyrion suffers from a severe erectile dysfunction which is he’s celibate now and he realizes he can’t have kids. 

That's one interpretation. 

The writers do seem to be singularly focused on Tyrion's sex life in S8, though. "Things would be easier" if whoremongering were an option, but it isn't (for some undisclosed reason). In 8x04, he begs Jaime for gossip about what Brienne's like in bed and tells Jaime that he hasn't been with a woman in years. And also in 8x04, when Bran says he doesn't really want anything anymore, Tyrion ruefully sighs "I envy you." As I said upthread, I don't see the point of it unless it has endgame relevance.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Eyes High

[nikma]

That line about the Iron Fleet was taken out of context like many things they've said in the past. They have them talk about that fleet at that meeting.

So no, she didn't forget. 

[YaddaYadda]

20 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Tyrion is the only person apart from Varys who seems to care at all what happens to the innocent people in KL if Dany lights up the place, and is willing to risk his own life in a last-ditch effort to avoid a slaughter, so yeah. Sansa who so often gets touted as queen material was completely unconcerned about the looming catastrophe in KL, merely gloating to Jaime that she was going to miss his sister's execution. The guy who actually gives a shit about the people is probably the one who should be ruling them. 

Does Tyrion care about the people inside King's Landing or does he care what happens to his "pregnant" sister? I mean his actions from last season were framed as him trying to protect his siblings from a certain death.

Admittedly, I stopped watching this dumpster fire after 803 and I'm only going by what I'm reading.

Also, Tyrion's so-called Lannister costume is not exactly a Lannister outfit. That's a Tywin writ small outfit. 

[Constantinople]

15 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Tyrion is the only person apart from Varys who seems to care at all what happens to the innocent people in KL if Dany lights up the place, and is willing to risk his own life in a last-ditch effort to avoid a slaughter, so yeah. Sansa who so often gets touted as queen material was completely unconcerned about the looming catastrophe in KL, merely gloating to Jaime that she was going to miss his sister's execution. The guy who actually gives a shit about the people is probably the one who should be ruling them. 

For a guy who allegedly cares about the people, he sure cares a lot about Cersei and the nobility in general. His concern about Dickon Tarly volunteering to die wasn't that he'd be dead, but that another great house would disappear.

Tyrion should have told Dany to torch the Red Keep at the start of Season 7. That would have saved the most lives and ended the war. But Tyrion was more concerned with capturing Casterly Rock, for all the good it did them.

Tyrion is hobbled by short term thinking, bad judgment and a conventional noble mindset. I'm not sure he's best suited for to rule

[Portia4844]

4 hours ago, GraceK said:

I’m just...huh. I’m miserable. If they had more seasons , like GRRM wanted , maybe I wouldn’t be so mad. But D and D insisted on 8 seasons. Hbo, and GRRM Martin wanted at least 10. That’s what pisses me off. D and D keep saying how they BEGGED to get this series adapted.  No one wanted it. But they kept trying, and they had a meeting with George, and finally got this series started. So, it really pisses me off that they decided they are just sick of it, and they don’t want to do more than 8 seasons . So we all suffer. Because now they have to rush storylines in, and everything comes across as character assassination.  It’s like really? You wanted this series , now you are sick of it? 

Miserable sums it up for me as well.   

The writers have reduced these characters to the point that Sansa asking about feeding everyone or suggesting the armies need more time to rest to show she's smart and fit to lead.  Dany not adjusting well to the culture of the North and being in a hurry take down Cersei as grounds for thinking she could be insane and therefore, is not fit to lead.  Granted, there's more to why people think one way or another about either of them but it's still based on how D&D present them.  

They've taken a fantasy with dragons, magic, and characters who have fascinating character development and reduced them to saying whatever is needed to get this shitfest over with.  They've turned what I loved into episodes of dimwitted decisions that make no sense while Cersei plans and smirks.   

They wanted to subvert my expectations.  They succeeded. 

[Constantinople]

I'm wonder why the Golden Company would agree to fight for Cersei
The TV show hasn't provided any background about them, to the TV Golden Company doesn't have any particular ties to Westeros
The Golden Company must have heard about Dany and her dragons. Everyone else in Essos has.
After hearing about the Battle of Meeren / Slaver's Bay, would they really want to risk sailing to Westeros? The ships could get torched midway, in which case they'd all drown. Or the ships could get torched after they've landed, stranding them in Westeros
I'm not saying the Golden Company would never fight in Westeros. They are mercenaries. But it's a big risk

[Indi]

Instead of the Incest!Twins dying in each other's arms romantically, I would have preferred this scenario: Jaime runs to Cersei with yet more professions of eternal love. She looks at him with her trademark smirk of utter disdain, but lets him embrace her. Then she stabs him to death.

That's the ending that glutton for punishment deserves.

[Portia4844]

1 minute ago, Indi said:

Instead of the Incest!Twins dying in each other's arms romantically, I would have preferred this scenario: Jaime runs to Cersei with yet more professions of eternal love. She looks at him with her trademark smirk of utter disdain, but lets him embrace her. Then she stabs him to death.

That's the ending that glutton for punishment deserves.

Haha!  That would make me stand up and cheer! 

[Couver]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Tyrion is the only person apart from Varys who seems to care at all what happens to the innocent people in KL if Dany lights up the place, and is willing to risk his own life in a last-ditch effort to avoid a slaughter, so yeah. Sansa who so often gets touted as queen material was completely unconcerned about the looming catastrophe in KL, merely gloating to Jaime that she was going to miss his sister's execution. The guy who actually gives a shit about the people is probably the one who should be ruling them. 

But if the leaks are to be believed he goes out of his way to try and save his sister, a mass murderer who reveled in all of it. And it seems she is the one who sets it up to look like Dany did all the burning. It makes the Tyrion character super hypocritical.

[Stallion12]

52 minutes ago, nikma said:

That line about the Iron Fleet was taken out of context like many things they've said in the past. They have them talk about that fleet at that meeting.

So no, she didn't forget. 

What was the context then?

[Stallion12]

32 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

I'm wonder why the Golden Company would agree to fight for Cersei
The TV show hasn't provided any background about them, to the TV Golden Company doesn't have any particular ties to Westeros
The Golden Company must have heard about Dany and her dragons. Everyone else in Essos has.
After hearing about the Battle of Meeren / Slaver's Bay, would they really want to risk sailing to Westeros? The ships could get torched midway, in which case they'd all drown. Or the ships could get torched after they've landed, stranding them in Westeros
I'm not saying the Golden Company would never fight in Westeros. They are mercenaries. But it's a big risk

Part of me is hoping tgeres a big twist wgere they turn. To bad theres no young griff.

[Dame sans merci]

59 minutes ago, nikma said:

That line about the Iron Fleet was taken out of context like many things they've said in the past. They have them talk about that fleet at that meeting.

So no, she didn't forget. 

That makes it worse, doesn't it? That they couldn't even keep their continuity straight between episodes.

[Lillith]

On 5/8/2019 at 10:30 AM, BitterApple said:

I think I feel the worst for Brienne in all of this. Imagine the man you love tossing you a pity fuck and then dumping you to go back to his abusive ex (who also happens to be his sister). Talk about a self-esteem crusher.

It wasn't just one "pity fuck" though. They were together from the first time shown until they got word about the ambush on Dany. Then there was a (unbenownst to Brienne) goodbye bang before Jamie left. Remember he was sitting at the foot of the bed and Brienne was sleeping before he tried to sneak off. 

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

That line about the Iron Fleet was taken out of context like many things they've said in the past. They have them talk about that fleet at that meeting.

So no, she didn't forget. 

How is Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet taken out of context?  It's a direct quote from David Benioff in the Inside the Episode feature for The Last of the Starks episode. One of the show runners is explaining that one of the dragons was killed because Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet

That the Iron Fleet was mentioned during the battle planning session at Winterfell merely points out how stupidly the writers handled this issue.

1 hour ago, nikma said:

That line about the Iron Fleet was taken out of context like many things they've said in the past. They have them talk about that fleet at that meeting.

So no, she didn't forget. 

9 minutes ago, Dame sans merci said:

That makes it worse, doesn't it? That they couldn't even keep their continuity straight between episodes.

Worse than that.

They couldn't keep their continuity straight in 2 scenes in the same episode.

[YaddaYadda]

14 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

Part of me is hoping tgeres a big twist wgere they turn. To bad theres no young griff.

Thank whatever there's no Young Griff. They would turn him into a knife wielding psycho in two seconds flat. And Jon Connington would start touching everyone with his greyscale hand screaming "you're it!"

[Dame sans merci]

8 minutes ago, Lillith said:

It wasn't just one "pity fuck" though. They were together from the first time shown until they got word about the ambush on Dany. Then there was a (unbenownst to Brienne) goodbye bang before Jamie left. Remember he was sitting at the foot of the bed and Brienne was sleeping before he tried to sneak off. 

Yeah. Given that Brienne's bruises disappear over the course of the episode, I think we can guess that it takes place over at least a week or more (although that's annoyingly unclear in the episode itself).

[Lillith]

3 minutes ago, Dame sans merci said:

Yeah. Given that Brienne's bruises disappear over the course of the episode, I think we can guess that it takes place over at least a week or more (although that's annoyingly unclear in the episode itself).

We discussed this on the episode thread and joked their depiciton of travel time is so inconsistant it could have been anywhere from 2 days to several weeks and we have no clue. Jamie was content to stay in Winterfell until he got that news. I don't think he's returning to Cersei because he adores her. He's either doing it to kill/try to stop her. Or he feels its what he deserves since they're both "hateful". I thought NCW and GC killed in that scene and each made you feel their anguish. 

[Night Person]

I think the thing that bothers me most is that D&D seem more interested in shocking the audience than in telling a good story.  It is as if they believe the hype that GOT has been popular primarily because of unexpected plot twists (Ned’s execution, the Red Wedding) and have decided to make faking out the audience their primary goal.

The problem is that the earlier shocking moments made sense and were integral to the story.  Now they are there for shock value only.  The mess with Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger was the perfect example.

Jamie’s actions, for example, make zero sense if the leaks are correct. They have been building up his redemption and his relationship with Brienne for several seasons. He left Cersei because she broke her word.  Everything he has done in KL indicates that he has changed.  Now he is going back to her only after he hears reports of more atrocities?  It feels like his actions are designed simply to surprise the audience because they think he was headed in a different direction.

Perhaps these actions will be handled with more nuance than the leaks indicate.  For example it might make sense if he goes to KL to kill her, is mortally wounded, and then decides to die with her because he thinks he is “hateful” and deserves his fate.  Maybe they will present Tyrion’s betrayal in a way that makes sense.  But I’m not very optimistic.

[screamin]

2 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

There's no way Cersei is pregnant. She used this so-called pregnancy as a shield and to make herself seem more vulnerable to Tyrion and Jaime and now she's telling Euron that she's pregnant with his kid. 

IA. Maybe she did believe at one time that she was pregnant, but quite possibly she's now discovered that she's actually terminally ill and wants to make sure she dies on the throne and everything gets destroyed before she's forced from it, like Rebecca in that Du Maurier novel.

[nikma]

1 hour ago, Stallion12 said:

What was the context then?

The context is she was not focused on her enemies in the south the way they were on her.

1 hour ago, Dame sans merci said:

That makes it worse, doesn't it? That they couldn't even keep their continuity straight between episodes.

It makes this fandom worse. Just like using that line "we wanted it to happen".

[SNeaker]

13 hours ago, anamika said:

There's also a good post on reddit comparing Dany to Frodo - but a Frodo who ultimately gives in to the ring

I am sure D&D are not going to be that deep about any of this, but if we as watchers want to make sense of these things for our satisfaction, having invested so much time in this, we could see Dany's story this way as well.

Frodo saved the world. He may have briefly succumbed to the ring, but even volunteering to take it was a huge sacrifice done for totally selfless reasons. It cost him a lot personally, but his mission was altruistic and successful.

Dany will have accomplished nothing. She wasn't really pivotal in fighting the dead -- in fact she either accidentally enabled or at least accelerated their coming by providing them with a dragon that destroyed the Wall. To the Westerosi she'll be some crazy lady, another mad Targaryen, who came across the sea to wreak more havoc with her quest for the throne and had to be put down. The fact that she diverted her quest to help the North has already gone unthanked and unacknowledged. Astonishingly, they just all seem to resent her for it.

As for Essos, how long will those cities stay free without her across the sea to keep her eye out? The Dothraki? Wiped out. The Unsullied? Gone. Who did she help, in the end? What good did she do?

I'm saying all this, by the way, as a Dany fan who is pissed af about all this.

[catrice2]

26 minutes ago, Night Person said:

I think the thing that bothers me most is that D&D seem more interested in shocking the audience than in telling a good story.  It is as if they believe the hype that GOT has been popular primarily because of unexpected plot twists (Ned’s execution, the Red Wedding) and have decided to make faking out the audience their primary goal.

The problem is that the earlier shocking moments made sense and were integral to the story.  Now they are there for shock value only.  The mess with Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger was the perfect example.

Jamie’s actions, for example, make zero sense if the leaks are correct. They have been building up his redemption and his relationship with Brienne for several seasons. He left Cersei because she broke her word.  Everything he has done in KL indicates that he has changed.  Now he is going back to her only after he hears reports of more atrocities?  It feels like his actions are designed simply to surprise the audience because they think he was headed in a different direction.

Perhaps these actions will be handled with more nuance than the leaks indicate.  For example it might make sense if he goes to KL to kill her, is mortally wounded, and then decides to die with her because he thinks he is “hateful” and deserves his fate.  Maybe they will present Tyrion’s betrayal in a way that makes sense.  But I’m not very optimistic.

Lyanna! Shocking..not necessary

[stagmania]

24 minutes ago, Night Person said:

Jamie’s actions, for example, make zero sense if the leaks are correct. They have been building up his redemption and his relationship with Brienne for several seasons. He left Cersei because she broke her word.  Everything he has done in KL indicates that he has changed.  Now he is going back to her only after he hears reports of more atrocities?  It feels like his actions are designed simply to surprise the audience because they think he was headed in a different direction.

I actually think Jaime's ending (assuming spoilers are right and he goes back to die with Cersei) is fitting and right for his character. The problem, as with most things this season, is that the arc is super rushed and they haven't taken the time to set it up properly.

His redemption as portrayed on the show has always been pretty shaky, with his relationship with Brienne being the only real outlet for his better impulses. He stayed with Cersei after she blew up the sept, after she pushed their last child to suicide. He seized Highgarden and executed Lady Olenna for her. As Tyrion said, he has always known what she is and he has always loved her anyway. It makes sense that his attempt to break away from her and convince himself he could be with someone else would ultimately fail. But they had it all happen in the space of two episodes, and so it rings false.

1 minute ago, nikma said:

The context is she was not focused on her enemies in the south the way they were on her.

That's not context, that's just restating the same thing they said in a different way. And it still makes no sense and contradicts what we saw in a different scene.

[BitterApple]

7 minutes ago, SNeaker said:

Frodo saved the world. He may have briefly succumbed to the ring, but even volunteering to take it was a huge sacrifice done for totally selfless reasons. It cost him a lot personally, but his mission was altruistic and successful.

Dany will have accomplished nothing. She wasn't really pivotal in fighting the dead -- in fact she either accidentally enabled or at least accelerated their coming by providing them with a dragon that destroyed the Wall. To the Westerosi she'll be some crazy lady, another mad Targaryen, who came across the sea to wreak more havoc with her quest for the throne and had to be put down. The fact that she diverted her quest to help the North has already gone unthanked and unacknowledged. Astonishingly, they just all seem to resent her for it.

As for Essos, how long will those cities stay free without her across the sea to keep her eye out? The Dothraki? Wiped out. The Unsullied? Gone. Who did she help, in the end? What good did she do?

I'm saying all this, by the way, as a Dany fan who is pissed af about all this.

I've never been a Dany fan, but both she and Jon are getting the shaft in terms of how their characters end. I'm fine with a tragic outcome for one or both, but have it mean something, ffs. Jon killing Dany and resigning himself to the Wall while the Three-Eyed Hamster sits on the Throne, basically renders their journeys meaningless. So Cersei is defeated. Big deal. Arya could've snuck into the Red Keep and accomplished that without even fighting a war. 

[Stallion12]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

Thank whatever there's no Young Griff. They would turn him into a knife wielding psycho in two seconds flat. And Jon Connington would start touching everyone with his greyscale hand screaming "you're it!"

Spinoff material right there!

[MrsR]

7 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Jon killing Dany and resigning himself to the Wall while the Three-Eyed Hamster sits on the Throne, basically renders their journeys meaningless.

But that's the point. That's the author's message in a nutshell. War is mostly meaningless and the journey is all there is. 

[Stallion12]

27 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I've never been a Dany fan, but both she and Jon are getting the shaft in terms of how their characters end. I'm fine with a tragic outcome for one or both, but have it mean something, ffs. Jon killing Dany and resigning himself to the Wall while the Three-Eyed Hamster sits on the Throne, basically renders their journeys meaningless. So Cersei is defeated. Big deal. Arya could've snuck into the Red Keep and accomplished that without even fighting a war. 

Basicly how  I feel. All the buildup in another direction gets tossed away. And a random person everyone hates gets put in charge.

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

The context is she was not focused on her enemies in the south the way they were on her.

It makes this fandom worse. Just like using that line "we wanted it to happen".

What? She's flying south to begin a campaign against her southern enemies, but is not focused on her southern enemies the way they are focused on her? And as a result, sailing ships can launch a surprise attack on her, as she rides a flying beast which  can travel many times faster, at thousands of feet in the air?

Was the context of the interview the opium den that Bran has apparently retired to?

[JennyMominFL]

3 hours ago, nikma said:

Sansa was so much like Cersei in that scene with Jaime. She looked so evil. And I liked it. Lol

20 years from now I could see Sansa turning out like Cersei. The elements are there

Edited May 9, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[WindyNights]

5 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

20 years from now I could see Sansa turning out like Cersei. The elements are there

Sansa married Gendry, cheats on him with Bran and Bran throws Jaime’s son via Brienne out the window. 

“The things I do for love” 

cue credits 

[ursula]

8 minutes ago, Bannon said:

What? She's flying south to begin a campaign against her southern enemies, but is not focused on her southern enemies the way they are focused on her? And as a result, sailing ships can launch a surprise attack on her, as she rides a flying beast which  can travel many times faster, at thousands of feet in the air?

Was the context of the interview the opium den that Bran has apparently retired to?

I kind of love how the writers literally say things like "Dany forgot about Euron's fleet", when in the actual scene we see all the generals and Dany discussing Euron's fleet... and fandom concludes that "Dany forgot about Euron's feet".

Or how it makes sense to anyone that on an open sea, a fleet of ships can sneak attack on anyone flying overhead with a dragon.

Inside there is brilliant meta about Doylist vs Watsonian, and showing vs telling and how the audience pick and choose what to believe and accept based on their own pre-existing biases and what outcomes they prefer... but I'm too tired to write it. 

[Bali]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 10:24 AM, Eyes High said:

Each of the individual Lannister siblings is far more interesting, nuanced and compelling than Jon, Dany and the Stark siblings combined. The Lannisters are also played by much better actors. It's no surprise that D&D are obsessed with them and that they've eaten the show. The show is nothing without them.

I blow raspberries at this sentiment. PPPFFFFTTTTTTTTT

[Bianca Castafiore]

7 minutes ago, Bannon said:

What? She's flying south to begin a campaign against her southern enemies, but is not focused on her southern enemies the way they are focused on her? And as a result, sailing ships can launch a surprise attack on her, as she rides a flying beast which  can travel many times faster, at thousands of feet in the air?

Was the context of the interview the opium den that Bran has apparently retired to?

Eh...I've been extremely annoyed by D&D for years now and for several reasons but I do think that the nitpticking in the past 2 weeks has gotten out of control tbh. I didn't need to watch their video to understand what they were trying to show during the war council scene and before her departure from Winterfell: Dany is impatiant, wants to attack Cersei asap and she ignores any suggestion and tosses all common sense aside. She is blinded by her desire so, yes it's obvious that she will make mistakes and ignore the possible danger.

[GraceK]

https://www.adsoftheworld.com/media/print/hbo_hbo_celebrates_mothers_day_wlimited_edition_characterthemed_cards

whoa. Is it possible the Spanish leaks are true? Look at that sword ! And she looks pregnant. Sigh. I probably just desperate at this point 😂😂😂😂😂

Edited May 9, 2019 by GraceK

[Uncle JUICE]

3 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

Eh...I've been extremely annoyed by D&D for years now and for several reasons but I do think that the nitpticking in the past 2 weeks has gotten out of control tbh. I didn't need to watch their video to understand what they were trying to show during the war council scene and before her departure from Winterfell: Dany is impatiant, wants to attack Cersei asap and she ignores any suggestion and tosses all common sense aside. She is blinded by her desire so, yes it's obvious that she will make mistakes and ignore the possible danger.

But has the show done the job of DEMONSTRATING this impatience? After all, this is exactly the plan that she wanted to execute upon landing in S701: get this over with. And in retrospect, it would have easily worked: landing in KL before any defensive measures against THREE dragons and 8000 unsullied and 40K Dothraki could be raised, at a time when Cersei was at the absolute nadir of influence (she'd lost The Reach but not destroyed the Martells, the Dornish were still on this show, the North was in open revolt...Cersei's only allies were seabound and incredibly vulnerable to dragonfire. At this point in her career, Dany listened to bad advice to sit back and plot, which ended up being exactly the thing that puts Cersei back on the front foot. Only NOW, when it seems convenient to the plot, does she seem irrationally impatient and incapable of coming up with her own proposals for the way forward. Yes, she should be listening to her council, but would it hurt to have her say something like "Someone please explain to me why X won't work"?

I think the problem is that in the last season and a half (really from S7E5 I think), this show squandered all of the good will it had built up through shoddy plotting and transparent and utterly pointless maneuvering. I know it makes ME less forgiving. 

[Minneapple]

7 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

Eh...I've been extremely annoyed by D&D for years now and for several reasons but I do think that the nitpticking in the past 2 weeks has gotten out of control tbh. I didn't need to watch their video to understand what they were trying to show during the war council scene and before her departure from Winterfell: Dany is impatiant, wants to attack Cersei asap and she ignores any suggestion and tosses all common sense aside. She is blinded by her desire so, yes it's obvious that she will make mistakes and ignore the possible danger.

I do think a lot of the nitpicking has gotten out of control, largely because two popular characters are being stupid. I mean, come on. These people wrote Sansa's rape plot in season 5 and I don't remember the nitpicking being this bad.

If you look to just two weeks ago everyone was raving about 8x02 and how it was one of the best episodes of the series. Now people are trashing all of season 8 as if it's the worst thing on television.

[Umbelina]

I wonder if anyone picked up Mellisandre's red necklace?

[Bali]

23 hours ago, Umbelina said:

People keep shortcutting Bran's new role as him being the new King, or even Bran taking the "throne." 

If the spoilers are correct, there is no throne, let alone an Iron Throne.  Bran oversees a council.  That is very different from being the new King.

I've been thinking about the Bran spoiler. And trying to reconcile it with Bran's stoic, "I live mostly in the past now." Bran bores me. He has always bored me. He bored me in what books I've read. But I think his whole purpose in the future will be to act as the "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it" compass.

And yes, I didn't finish the books. I tried, but decided that I didn't want to do that since I am of the belief that GRRM is never going to finish them.

[YaddaYadda]

7 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I do think a lot of the nitpicking has gotten out of control, largely because two popular characters are being stupid. I mean, come on. These people wrote Sansa's rape plot in season 5 and I don't remember the nitpicking being this bad.

Really? There was just one article after the other about how gratuitous and vile the whole thing was. The message boards were lit and GRRM posted his Alayne sample chapter from WoW during the week that followed that episode.

I know that you love Sansa, but no, there were a lot of people and publications up in arms over that episode. But apparently, D&D felt the need to double-down in her the SanSan scene.

[JennyMominFL]

15 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I do think a lot of the nitpicking has gotten out of control, largely because two popular characters are being stupid. I mean, come on. These people wrote Sansa's rape plot in season 5 and I don't remember the nitpicking being this bad.

If you look to just two weeks ago everyone was raving about 8x02 and how it was one of the best episodes of the series. Now people are trashing all of season 8 as if it's the worst thing on television.

E2 and E3 will probably both be in my top 10 of all time

[Eyes High]

The fuss over the awfulness of the King Bran/ruling council situation doesn't make much sense to me, since unless "Mostly I live in the past" Bran suddenly starts taking an interest in worldly affairs beyond the NK and Jon's parentage, even if there is a council, Tyrion will be the one ruling.

...And really, from what I've seen in S8 and what we now know of the leaks, Tyrion will the only one left suited to rule Westeros by process of elimination. Bran will remain a very knowledgeable zombie, Dany will be dead, Jon will be too damaged by whatever happens with Dany, Sansa who apparently couldn't care less about the plight of the people of KL will stay in the North, the remaining ruling lords/ladies/princes of Westeros will keep to themselves, and Davos hasn't done much in recent seasons except play hypeman to this or that person, so I guess now he'll be Tyrion's hypeman.

[ursula]

37 minutes ago, Bianca Castafiore said:

She is blinded by her desire so, yes it's obvious that she will make mistakes and ignore the possible danger.

By blinded, I guess you mean Dany was also literally blinded, right? So her failure to see the large fleet of ships waiting in broad day light from her aerial view ... makes sense?

26 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

These people wrote Sansa's rape plot in season 5 and I don't remember the nitpicking being this bad.

I can't speak for anyone else but I railed that Sansa's rape plot in season 5 was bad and made no sense.

And not just because it was offensive but because it literally made no sense.

Littlefinger - smuggles Sansa out of King's Landing to protect her from being executed for Jofferey's murder... then sells her to the Boltons, allies to the Lannisters, who also murdered her brother, and mother to take Winterfell/Lordship of the North.

Ramsays - allies to the Lannisters, take in Sansa Stark who's currently wanted for the murder of Joffrey Lannister. Proceed to wed her and ignore letters from King's Landing demanding that she be returned because... reasons?

Sansa - agrees to become Bolton's daughter-in-law/wife even though that weakens her as a claimant to the North and strengthens them. Even though Bolton killed her mother and brother and her unborn nephew. Even she currently had the protection of the Vale Lords who knew her identity, and literally just saved Littlefinger's life by testifying for him and didn't have to do anything he said. 

And again, this is not even going into the "Rape for Growth" storyline. It's  just the fact that for the story to work it requires everybody to act in ways that literally make no sense in anyway.

Then there was Jon being crowned King when he lost the Battle and was a (as far as anyone in the North knew) a Night Watch deserter while his sister, Ned Stark's only living child (that they knew) sat right there, with the entire army of the Vale parked in her backyard, that she had just used to win back Winterfell. 

People have been complaining about this show for ages, it's not news or people just getting angry because their faves aren't treated well. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by ursula

[Bali]

10 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

But apparently, D&D felt the need to double-down in her the SanSan scene.

What is the SanSan? I keep seeing it, but am not figuring it out. Thanks,

[Lillith]

2 minutes ago, ursula said:

By blinded, I guess you mean Dany was also literally blinded, right? So her failure to see the large fleet of ships waiting in broad day light from her aerial view ... makes sense?

I can't speak for anyone else but I railed that Sansa's rape plot in season 5 was bad and made no sense.

In regard to Sansa's treatment from Ramsay, it was brutal but at least off screen and had some narrative reason. The rape plots I had issue with were the gratuitous Craster's Keep scenes and Jaime raping Cersei in the show when it was not that way in the book. And again served no narrative point. 

I don't hate this season anywhere near as much as a lot of people do, though I was disapponted in the last episode. But if these leaks are accurate there is not one thing I'm seeing that makes sense with the exceptin of Varys betraying Dany which has been teased and foreshadowed. 

[Uncle JUICE]

3 minutes ago, Bali said:

What is the SanSan? I keep seeing it, but am not figuring it out. Thanks,

I think SANsa and SANdor Clegane maybe?