Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

Maybe you could argue that Sam shouldn't push Jon to be king, but the parental reveal is fair.

Read my post again. That's exactly what I argue. Sam shouldn't push Jon to be king, not at that very moment, not with what he saw and what he knows about the AOTD. 

I also argued about his motivations, not the fact that he told Jon. I observed that Sam doesn't tell Jon only because Jon deserves to know. Sam tells him in part because he resents Daenerys and wants to retaliate; from the way it was described in the episode leaks, he doesn't seem to care about the emotional consequences on Jon, his friend. Does it make him kind of an hypocrite re: Boltons? Yes. Is it kind of a tad shitty, as a friend ? Yes. Is it rash? Yes. And my point here was: So what? He has the right to be sad and resentful and upset, and sometimes, your emotions get the better of you. It's understandable and human. I have no problem whatsoever with that.

28 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

This supports the leak that Jon and Dany head out to meet the NK leaving Winterfell vulnerable, but they now know that Cersei isn't sending her army and that she has hired the GC.

There was already an old fleak pretending that Bran sends the Unsullied to Castle Black. If the dragons and Targs aren't there when the enemy arrives, I think there will be some mistake or some kind of shenanigans behind it. Maneuvering for WF to be vulnerable and therefore allowing it to fall, would be a right proper betrayal of "the Starks", for example.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[SimoneS]

7 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Maybe Jon and Dany head out on the dragons and the attack happens while they're vulnerable, although again you'd think Bran would give them a heads-up before letting them fly off.

Exactly. Bran is an all seeing sorcerer type. How does he see the NK coming, but misses the GC? We must be missing something or maybe that is just how the story plays out.

Edited April 12, 2019 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Exactly. Bran is an all seeing sorcerer type. How does he see the NK coming, but misses the GC? We must be missing something or maybe that is just how the story plays out.

I can see it now...
Arya: Bran, why didn't you tell us the GC was coming to attack us???

Bran: ...You didn't ask.

[Minneapple]

10 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Read my post again. That's exactly what I argue. Sam shouldn't push Jon to be king, not at that very moment, not with what he saw and what he knows about the AOTD. 

Whoops, I missed that part of your post. Apologies.

[Eyes High]

From Anderson's 60 Minutes cast interviews (released ahead of Sunday's feature), about the ending:

John Bradley (after talking about Ned's death and the Red Wedding): We've never given people what they think they want, because we know that people really like to be challenged, and they don't like to be spoonfed. And all of those great moments, those visceral moments of people's reactions to this show have come from things happening that they didn't want to happen.

Peter Dinklage: It brings everybody into it. And what we thought. It questions everything, which I love. It really makes you question yourself. I did, when I was reading it. It just, it really...and not in any sort of snarky way. In a beautiful way.

Nikolaj: I read the final six scripts, and I just thought "Wow, they've done an amazing job. They've really wrapped it up, they've ended this show." And it's an ending, you know. We're not gonna come back. You do feel proud that you're part of something like that.

Liam Cunningham also made a comment about how if they presented the ending to the audience all neatly wrapped up in a bow with everything they wanted, the audience would be angry and would find it patronizing, at which point Gwendoline Christie said that there's no way to please everyone since it's such a complex story.

It could be confirmation bias with Friki's leaks out there, but it kind of seems like Peter Dinklage is alluding to Tyrion's death here. It also kind of reminds me of Nikolaj's comments a while back about how the ending is like a murder mystery where the reveal of the killer makes sense. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Eyes High

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Exactly. Bran is an all seeing sorcerer type. How does he see the NK coming, but misses the GC? We must be missing something or maybe that is just how the story plays out.

It would be (somewhat) defensible if Jaime believes and manages to convince Dany, Jon, etc. that the GC will stay clear of Winterfell until well after the fight with the NK.  After all, the entire point is to let the other two sides beat each other up first.  I'm betting the GC won't be too keen on the idea of facing two dragons, the Dothraki, and the Unsullied.  That way Bran won't bother looking south until it's too late.

Of course being surprised by reinforcement has happened before.  Ramsey didn't know a massive army from the Vale had been riding north until they actually showed up.

[nikma]

I don't think there will be any explanation why Bran can't see what Cersei is doing. 

[Minneapple]

Not sure where this came from, but it was posted to Freefolk and it cracked me up

[ElizaD]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

It could be confirmation bias with Friki's leaks out there, but it kind of seems like Peter Dinklage is alluding to Tyrion's death here. It also kind of reminds me of Nikolaj's comments a while back about how the ending is like a murder mystery where the reveal of the killer makes sense. 

The murder mystery comment was probably the first one that really gave me the thrill of wondering whether the wild betrayal leak might actually be true. I can't remember whether the stuff about the White Walkers' motives being revealed was a leaker or a cast/crew comment, but right now that and the Tyrion betrayal seem like the only plausible mysteries that Nikolaj might be referring to. I guess there's also the possibility that he meant Jaime snapping and killing Cersei, but that seems a little too light on the intrigue/shock element that murder mystery implies. If we spend the season with only paranoid Sansa slowly getting suspicious of Tyrion while he seems like just another person fooled by Cersei's promises, a shock reveal of their plot in 8x05 and a trial with flashbacks/Bran exposition/Sophie's scroll in 8x06 could be a gloriously unexpected whodunnit.

[Eyes High]

33 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

The murder mystery comment was probably the first one that really gave me the thrill of wondering whether the wild betrayal leak might actually be true. I can't remember whether the stuff about the White Walkers' motives being revealed was a leaker or a cast/crew comment, but right now that and the Tyrion betrayal seem like the only plausible mysteries that Nikolaj might be referring to.

BoatsexBaby was the one who said that the revelation of the WWs' motives will be brilliant and explain everything from the first scene. Since 8x01 featured a return of the mysterious WW symbols. Peter Dinklage's comments about how when he read the ending he had to question himself and how it questions everything might be referring to the reveal of the WWs' motives putting a spin on everything that they've done over the course of the show. I hope it isn't some sort of racism or immigration metaphor.

Quote

If we spend the season with only paranoid Sansa slowly getting suspicious of Tyrion while he seems like just another person fooled by Cersei's promises, a shock reveal of their plot in 8x05 and a trial with flashbacks/Bran exposition/Sophie's scroll in 8x06 could be a gloriously unexpected whodunnit.

The scroll could play into it, although it sounds a lot like Littlefinger's trial structurally, where Littlefinger at first claimed innocence and then had Bran call him out by citing specific things he had done.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

[Minneapple]

I like Maisie's dress, but Sophie looks like she's ready for the Commander's Ball in the next Star Wars movie. Is it Vuitton? Sometimes I hate what they do to her.

[Smad]

Damn Isaac got tall. Sophie is not a small woman and she is wearing heels and he towers over her.

[GrailKing]

Ended an hour ago.

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1mnxevMyRqaKX

https://twitter.com/OriginalFunko/status/1116747961785028608

[GrailKing]

longer version, has Gemma and Kerry Ingram

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/entertainment/film-tv/winter-arrives-for-belfast-game-of-thrones-season-8-premiere-38008467.html

[Bannon]

20 months really has been entirely too long to wait for a final season. I'm to the point now where all the speculation has kind of made the prospect of these final episodes tedious to me. Now, if the writing is really, really, great, it won't make a difference, but if it falls substantially short of that, I'm going to be eye rolling with vigor, because the wait has just been too damned long.

Most of these spoilers, if proven true, really don't grab me, Tyrion being secretly in league with Cersei most of all. If I've been watching this show for all these years to prove Tyrion is dumber than Gendry's hammer, that's going to irritate the hell out of me. If they don't have a militarily sensible resolution to this final major conflict, that's going to irritate me. Given what a lot of people say are their favorite episodes, I kind of suspect I'm in the minority, but the military aspect of this show has always kind of bugged me; Battle of the Bastards, for instance, is not a favorite of mine. I'm really wishing the military aspects of this final season are well written, but I'm not too optimistic. Hope I'm wrong.

[screamin]

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Exactly. Bran is an all seeing sorcerer type. How does he see the NK coming, but misses the GC? We must be missing something or maybe that is just how the story plays out.

It could just be a question of him being preoccupied with the fall of the Wall and the threat of the NK to the North, to the extent of watching ONLY that, instead of looking south for an attack from that direction. We've seen that his visions only work in real time, in one direction at a time. If Bran were really prescient and omniscient, his predecessor as Three-Eyed Raven would've noticed Bran abusing Hodor and foreseen Bran bringing about his doom. Even the Three-Eyed Raven can be taken by surprise.

[GrailKing]

[Clawdette]

I've been thinking about the "huge surprise" that caused extras to gasp.  One possibility -albeit slim - would be that a major character is killed, but the victim turns out to be Arya who was wearing that person's face.  The shock would come from initially thinking one person had died but it was actually Arya.  

I got nothin' else.

[anamika]

So, does anyone think house Stark gets Ice back now that Jaime and Brienne are both in WF along with expert weapon's maker Gendry and some dragons?

I do wish Brienne would just fess up and tell them what her sword is.

If Jaime does end up dying - he most probably is - I think it would only be fitting to reforge Ice for the future generation of Starks.

3 hours ago, GrailKing said:

And I think the freefolk true detectives have already found out that HBO lied about those shots being the first day of filming. The pics of Emilia and Ian were from the 19th. While the first day on the documentary of everyone assembling in the hall was the 23rd.

HBO are lying liars who lie.

Edited April 13, 2019 by anamika

[Eyes High]

Gwendoline Christie quotes, from Live with Ryan and Kelly:

On S8 more generally: "It's going to destroy everyone when they watch it and when it ends (...) It's an ending a lot of people feel is the natural one, which is with someone taking their rightful place on the Iron Throne." [And then Ryan Seacrest, rather than asking her to elaborate, immediately asked her how she got into acting!]

On Brienne in S8: "What I'm really happy about is that we've seen Brienne develop, this character develop in many different ways, but now what we see is Brienne the woman making her own choices and taking control of her life and responding to her own wants and desires, rather than just being in service of someone else and I think that is powerful and necessary and that's one of the reasons why I love it." 

[SimoneS]

18 hours ago, anamika said:

So, does anyone think house Stark gets Ice back now that Jaime and Brienne are both in WF along with expert weapon's maker Gendry and some dragons? liars who lie.

Seems unlikely. They need as many Valyrian steels swords as they can get. Maybe after the war if Gendry survives, it can be reforged. But isn't it insanely heavy? I highly doubt that Jon or most people can wield it anyway.

Edited April 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, anamika said:

So, does anyone think house Stark gets Ice back now that Jaime and Brienne are both in WF along with expert weapon's maker Gendry and some dragons?

I do wish Brienne would just fess up and tell them what her sword is.

There isn't any indicator that they don't know where Oathkeeper came from.

The house swords are a pretty good example of something that the writers clearly don't have much interest in, so I doubt this will be gone into.  Case in point, them having Brienne offer to give Oathkeeper back to Jaime in Season 6, which is wildly out of character given that Brienne knows that sword was dishonourably stolen from the house she serves.

[anamika]

37 minutes ago, SeanC said:

There isn't any indicator that they don't know where Oathkeeper came from.

The house swords are a pretty good example of something that the writers clearly don't have much interest in, so I doubt this will be gone into.  Case in point, them having Brienne offer to give Oathkeeper back to Jaime in Season 6, which is wildly out of character given that Brienne knows that sword was dishonourably stolen from the house she serves.

I doubt the Starks know that Brienne is walking around with Ice, considering Brienne never told them. Meanwhile Brienne tries to return it to Jaime. This is something that annoys me extremely. I made a post a while back about Jaime being a not so good influence on Brienne - and this is an example of that. 

I would not say that the writers are not interested in swords - considering how much importance they have given to Longclaw, Needle, Heartsbane, Oathbreaker, Widow's wail, the valyrian steel dagger etc. We even had a scene where Jon tries to offer Longclaw back to Jorah as it is his ancestral house sword. Sam steals Heartsbane and most probably offers it to Jorah for fighting.  But no one mentions the Stark ancestral sword that Jaime and Brienne are walking around with.

If we are going to see a Stark resurgence in the last season - a time for wolves and all that - then it would only be fitting for them to reforge Ice. But to do that, someone should let them know what happened to it.

[Eyes High]

9 hours ago, SeanC said:

There isn't any indicator that they don't know where Oathkeeper came from.

The house swords are a pretty good example of something that the writers clearly don't have much interest in, so I doubt this will be gone into.  Case in point, them having Brienne offer to give Oathkeeper back to Jaime in Season 6, which is wildly out of character given that Brienne knows that sword was dishonourably stolen from the house she serves.

That was just a thinly-veiled setup for one of the all-time great shippy show-only lines--Jaime saying "It's yours, it will always be yours"--so personally that didn't bother me at all.

I would like to see Ice reforged, but I don't think it will happen until 8x06, since I expect that Brienne and Jaime will be fighting the AOTD at Winterfell with their Valyrian steel swords. Maybe Jon executes Tyrion with it once it's reforged, heh.

We are now 36 days from knowing (more or less) the ending, a little over a month. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Eyes High

[Brn2bwild]

Thinking about how people might hold the Tarlys' burning against Dany, I would laugh if that was what finally got Sansa and Arya on her side.  Both of them would remind Tyrion and co of the price of disloyalty -- on the one hand, House Frey got exterminated for betraying House Tully.  On the other hand, House Tarly got burned (pun intended) for betraying House Tyrell.  And of course, House Bolton got destroyed after betraying House Stark.  Both Stark women know the cost of disloyalty all too well.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 10:11 PM, Missrayn said:

Hmmm..I will hate if Dany end up be sideline for jon to have it all! I will be fine with Dany dying if she has a real role to play, not childbirth death bull... So, I think she will be dying fighting in the last battle probably Drogo will dying killing viserion too. 

I've wondered if Dany's death would mirror Rhaenys's - going down with her dragon.  I would hope the baby would be born first.  And the baby would go on to reign, just like Rhaenys's (to better success).

If Dany has to die that is.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:

Thinking about how people might hold the Tarlys' burning against Dany, I would laugh if that was what finally got Sansa and Arya on her side.

I would say that, based on an honest read of how both characters have been presented thus far, had they been at the Loot Train aftermath (I still can't get over what a stupid name that is), both of the sisters would have given burning the Tarlys the thumbs up, as they've been the proponents/executors of similar acts elsewhere in the show.

However (even setting aside character hypocrisy), I don't know if the writers see it that way, given that they've often demonstrated very different reads of the characters compared to what you or I might take away from it.

[Colorful Mess]

30 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I would say that, based on an honest read of how both characters have been presented thus far, had they been at the Loot Train aftermath (I still can't get over what a stupid name that is), both of the sisters would have given burning the Tarlys the thumbs up, as they've been the proponents/executors of similar acts elsewhere in the show.

I think they'll see the difference.

Sansa and Arya killed people who directly did harm to their person, friends, or family.

Dany killed some nobles because they didnt worship her

Sansa and Arya: hey wait a second we're nobles and we don't worship you so...hmmm. 

[SeanC]

13 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

I think they'll see the difference.

Sansa and Arya killed people who directly did harm to their person, friends, or family.

Dany killed some nobles because they didnt worship her

Sansa and Arya: hey wait a second we're nobles and we don't worship you so...hmmm. 

Both Sansa and Arya are totally willing to execute nobles who refuse to acknowledge House Stark's claim to the North (as was Jon; he said as much in 701), which is the same position Daenerys took in respect of her own claim.

Dany was more merciful than the sisters, if anything, as she offered both Tarlys a pardon and the opportunity to rejoin her cause even after they were defeated in battle and had killed one of her main allies.  Clearly no such offer was ever going to be made to, say, Harald Karstark or Smalljon Umber, had they survived the battle.

[Colorful Mess]

19 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Both Sansa and Arya are totally willing to execute nobles who refuse to acknowledge House Stark's claim to the North (as was Jon; he said as much in 701), which is the same position Daenerys took in respect of her own claim.

Dany was more merciful than the sisters, if anything, as she offered both Tarlys a pardon and the opportunity to rejoin her cause even after they were defeated in battle and had killed one of her main allies.  Clearly no such offer was ever going to be made to, say, Harald Karstark or Smalljon Umber, had they survived the battle.

You missed my point. The Tarlys give them reason to be afraid of what Dany will do to them. If they don't view Dany as the rightful queen (as Sophie says), then they'd fear their lives are at risk. And it appears Sansa is acting on that fear by going behind backs just like Sam. At a certain point, people will disapprove of Dany's actions, whether on moral grounds or out of fear, and she will face consequences. 

[Eyes High]

A list of S8 episode titles popped up on Wikipedia not long ago. Now, the first two of those episode titles are showing up on French TV listings (via Freefolk). Here are those episode titles:

1. Winter is Here

2. The Rightful Queen

3. Winterfell

4. Exodus

5. Ice and Fire

6. A Dream of Spring

[Minneapple]

23 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

A list of S8 episode titles popped up on Wikipedia not long ago. Now, the first two of those episode titles are showing up on French TV listings (via Freefolk). Here are those episode titles:

1. Winter is Here

2. The Rightful Queen

3. Winterfell

4. Exodus

5. Ice and Fire

6. A Dream of Spring

I saw these and thought they were fake.

[SimoneS]

We have a live episode chat thread. Wonderful!

[Moxie Cat]

19 hours ago, anamika said:

I would not say that the writers are not interested in swords - considering how much importance they have given to Longclaw, Needle, Heartsbane, Oathbreaker, Widow's wail, the valyrian steel dagger etc.

Can I ask a stupid question? When did Widow's Wail become Jaime's sword? Is it in the episodes right after Joffrey's death?

I have to think that secretly, Brienne would be tickled if she ever found out that she and Jaime share the two halves of Ice (even if she knew it was wrong!)

I wish that during the Bran TOJ flashbacks, more attention had been paid to Dawn, as a Valyrian steel sword that is usable in the coming fight, but it was probably just one storyline too many.

[GrailKing]

6 hours ago, SeanC said:

totally willing to execute nobles who refuse to acknowledge House Stark's claim to the North (as was Jon; he said as much in 701),

Which nobles were these ?

Sansa willingly killed someone who beat, raped, skinned, hunted or outright betrayed her ,her family and even people technically under the protection of Winterfell .

Arya did the same.

Neither killed anyone for not kissing their asses.

[Eyes High]

29 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I saw these and thought they were fake.

Me too, although Winterfell for 8x03 and A Dream of Spring for 8x06 make a lot of sense.

Exodus rings a little false (too biblical), but The Rightful Queen makes sense for a Cogman episode (he wanted to call the Stormborn episode The Mad King’s Daughter).

[SeanC]

15 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Which nobles were these ?

The ones who died in the war to reclaim Winterfell, most obviously?  The Starks claim that they are the rulers of the North; many Northerners thought otherwise, and the Starks killed as many as they had to to compel the North to submit to them.

Sansa subsequently advocates stripping House Karstark and House Umber of their lands, so it's a safe bet that she would have advocated executing Lord Karstark and Lord Umber had they not been killed in battle -- and she's not alone in that, because Jon's rebuttal to her request to strip the family lands implies he would have done that as well, if they were around, and he refers to the lords' act of opposing the Starks' bid for Winterfell as treason, which he says is punishable by death.

You can debate how seriously Arya's "kill 'em for speaking against Jon" suggestion in 705 is meant to be taken (or what her real solution would have been, if it was just a bluff), but as far as defeated enemies go, she's not known for going easy.

[GrailKing]

47 minutes ago, SeanC said:

ou can debate how seriously Arya's "kill 'em for speaking against Jon" suggestion in 705 is meant to be taken (or what her real solution would have been, if it was just a bluff), but as far as defeated enemies go, she's not known for going easy.

ETA : No most rulers were too afraid to fight the Boltons, as stated by Manderly, Mormont and Glover.

I've said many times here Arya was wrong, with the lords. Sansa handles that properly and Arya quickly attacked her for it.

WRG to the Umbers and Karstarks ( not the kids ) Sansa was right; at the parley they threw down  Shaggy's head, a direct threat and  FU to Sansa and Jon; WRG to the kids, she's probably going to be correct there as well, not because they will betray, more because they're young and no experience and can be wrongly influenced or make bad decisions.

I saw nothing the same between the Starks and Danny's decision.

The Starks were physically and psychologically harmed or betrayed by The Boltons, Karstarks , Umbers, Lannisters, LF.

WRG  to the Karstarks; I admit Robb shares in their betrayal, Lord Karstark killed two innocent kids, but Robb screwed up by not listening to his wife, mother, and uncles.

But the Karstarks chose to go with Ramsey ( they could had stayed home ) and they died for it.  

In my view the Starks defended themselves and took back their home that was done by treachery.

Danny had other options ( especially with Dickon ), but in the end she killed Randyl because he wouldn't bow and kiss her shoes.

Edited April 14, 2019 by GrailKing

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

We have a live episode chat thread. Wonderful!

I don't know, I did one of those years ago ( Sansa saving Brienne's ass at the inn ) on Westeros .org, it's exciting, but at the same time can't fully take in the show.

What a dilemma . LOL.

[anamika]

6 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

The Tarlys give them reason to be afraid of what Dany will do to them. If they don't view Dany as the rightful queen (as Sophie says), then they'd fear their lives are at risk. And it appears Sansa is acting on that fear by going behind backs just like Sam.

Maybe the Northerners have also reason to be afraid of what Sansa will do to them. Sansa apparently asks Ned Umber to come to Winterfell with all the grain and he refuses - probably anxious about whether Sansa would kick him out since Jon has put her in charge and gone away. Ned Umber would rather face the dead than Sansa Stark!

1 hour ago, Moxie Cat said:

Can I ask a stupid question? When did Widow's Wail become Jaime's sword? Is it in the episodes right after Joffrey's death?

I have to think that secretly, Brienne would be tickled if she ever found out that she and Jaime share the two halves of Ice (even if she knew it was wrong!)

I think Jaime takes Widow's Wail after Joffrey's death. Not sure if he has given it another name yet.

I don't mind Brienne's use of Oathkeeper. I think it's fitting that she uses Ned's sword to defend the Stark girls. I just want the Starks to know what happened to Ice and for them to bestow it on Brienne instead of Jaime. I guess it's shippy and all that but still it belonged to the Starks! 

1 hour ago, Moxie Cat said:

I wish that during the Bran TOJ flashbacks, more attention had been paid to Dawn, as a Valyrian steel sword that is usable in the coming fight, but it was probably just one storyline too many.

There are some leaks out there of Longclaw breaking in episode 3 and Jon using another Valyrian sword for the latter 3 episodes. Let's see if any other swords show up!

Edited April 14, 2019 by anamika

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, anamika said:

Maybe the Northerners have also reason to be afraid of what Sansa will do to them as well. Sansa apparently asks Ned Umber to come to Winterfell with all the grain and he refuses - probably anxious about whether Sansa would kick him out since Jon has put her in charge and gone away. Ned Umber would rather face the dead than Sansa Stark!

Seems like it be a bad decision by a 10 year old, she stipulated to Wolcum to ship grain not all the grain, knowing they would not have time to do it if they had to flee at a moments notice.

I think Jon's going to be in the GH when Ned Umber decides not to stay, I think that's how the leaks stated it; if true then yeah bad decision on his part.

[bubble sparkly]

I don't know if there is a deeper underlying meaning to any of this or if it's just coincidence, but is it strange that a lot of the ancestral swords are now being wielded by non-family members?

Mormont sword (Longclaw) - wielded by a Snow (who is actually a Stark/Targ)

Stark Sword (Ice) - wielded by a Tarth and a Lannister

Tarly sword (Heartsbane) - will be wielded by a Mormont (if the trailers etc are correct)

[GraceK]

14 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Danny had other options ( especially with Dickon ), but in the end she killed Randyl because he wouldn't bow and kiss her shoes.

YAWN. That’s bullshit. That’s such a generic oversimplification that it’s embarrassing. Yes, Dany goes around in a tiara and a sash asking everyone to kiss her feet  and worship at the giant temple she erected to her magnificence.😆😂

She has never once done that. She has done what every other contender to the throne has done, required her subjects to bend the knee. The difference with her, and what pisses people off, is that she is a woman with the balls and the firepower and the ruthlessness of a man and general to back up her words. She doesn’t always listen to the men around her and follows her own instincts, and SHOCKER, whenever she does, she’s looked at askance.  She listens to advice , takes it when she wants too and makes up her own mind when she doesn’t agree. OMG, she’s a fully realized female person!!! The horror!!! 

Randall literally refused every other option given and , if that wasn’t enough, thought it was cool to insult, belittle and be racist to her face. What other male King in Westeros or anywhere else would have put up with that? Randall would have killed Dany outright if he defeated her in battle, or better yet, chained her up and brought her to Cersei to be tortured, raped and humiliated because that’s what Cersei does. There would have been no fair offers there. Dany is one of the only rulers who actually tries mercy, and gives people choices,  and still is considered a evil despotic monster just because she happens to be a powerful protagonist, but god forbid you ever imply that the Starks don’t have rainbows coming out of their ass. And Dickon? He committed suicide. Why should Dany hold everyone’s hand and beg her enemies to surrender? Should she cuddle them and hold them and kiss their boo boos and please ask them so nicely to curl up in her dungeons instead? Give them a pat on the back and say “ good work boys on killing my allies, promise to play nice from now on, now go on and play with your friends you rascals!”. 🙄 why is she held to this standard of soft serving in a war when everyone else around her can slaughter her armies and allies with no discretion? She’s a queen. She considers herself the rightful queen and she is now literally putting her life on the line to save everyone in Westeros besides, as any good ruler and good queen should. But if you hate Dany, then none of that matters I guess. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I cannot wait for this season to start and be over at this point because this toxic anti Dany propaganda is like a disease.  

[anamika]

22 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Seems like it be a bad decision by a 10 year old, she stipulated to Wolcum to ship grain not all the grain, knowing they would not have time to do it if they had to flee at a moments notice.

I think Sansa was asking everyone to come to Winterfell with all the grain and defend Winterfell. That's what I am getting from all the interviews and episode one leaks. Umber decides it's safer to hunker down at Last Hearth rather than face the lady who wanted to strip him of his lands.

I think the show is simplifying the strategy for the North battle to just the Winterfell battle. And hence everyone should assemble there.

In the books, I would assume the leaders of each house and stronghold in the North would want to defend their homes and all the people living there - rather than defending Winterfell for the Starks. I am not sure how Winterfell would be able to accommodate ALL the people of the North inside their castle. Makes no sense. But that's probably the show simplifying stuff by having a one battle episode to deal with the North falling - GRRM will probably need an entire book for this.

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Exodus rings a little false (too biblical), but The Rightful Queen makes sense for a Cogman episode (he wanted to call the Stormborn episode The Mad King’s Daughter).

Out of all the episode titles, Rightful Queen stood out as rather bland. But I do agree that it sounds like a Bryan Cogman title.

Edited April 14, 2019 by anamika

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, GraceK said:

She has never once done that. She has done what every other contender to the throne has done, required her subjects to bend the knee. The difference with her, and what pisses people off, is that she is a woman with the balls and the firepower and the ruthlessness of a man and general to back up her words.

Danny's not yet their ruler, she has no subjects, except in her mind, she's trying to win subjects, her use of dragons are not helping her, it's hurting her.

The rest as far as I'm concerned is neither here or there, I stated many times I'm on the fence with her, until I see how she handles things with out having dragons.

I've said she tries to do the right thing, but if something or someone pushes back she's to quick with the dragons.

I neither hate her or love her; I want to lean towards her waiting for her to shed those dragons.

[cambridgeguy]

7 minutes ago, anamika said:

I think Jaime takes Widow's Wail after Joffrey's death. Not sure if he has given it another name yet.

In theory it should have passed to Tommen first as the new King. 

3 minutes ago, anamika said:

In the books, I would assume the leaders of each house and stronghold in the North would want to defend their homes and all the people living there - rather than defending Winterfell for the Starks. I am not sure how Winterfell would be able to accommodate ALL the people of the North inside their castle. Makes no sense. But that's probably the show simplifying stuff by having a one battle episode to deal with the North falling - GRRM will probably need an entire book for this.

If the NK's army sticks together as one overwhelming force then they really should be massing together for one final stand instead of getting picked off one by one. Trying to keep all of the civilians inside Winterfell makes no sense, though.  Send those people south ASAP.  If you win you can call them back.  If you lose then they're either trapped in a fallen castle or they'll be trying to outrun a bunch of wights.

[GrailKing]

4 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

In theory it should have passed to Tommen first as the new King. 

If the NK's army sticks together as one overwhelming force then they really should be massing together for one final stand instead of getting picked off one by one. Trying to keep all of the civilians inside Winterfell makes no sense, though.  Send those people south ASAP.  If you win you can call them back.  If you lose then they're either trapped in a fallen castle or they'll be trying to outrun a bunch of wights.

I would think those houses most northern would head to WF early, that make sense.

I think the main purpose for the crypts is to save the civilians and a way to escape.

Maybe proof about Jon also.

[anamika]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

In theory it should have passed to Tommen first as the new King. 

Then maybe Jaime took it after Tommen's death 🙂

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

If the NK's army sticks together as one overwhelming force then they really should be massing together for one final stand instead of getting picked off one by one. Trying to keep all of the civilians inside Winterfell makes no sense, though.  Send those people south ASAP.  If you win you can call them back.  If you lose then they're either trapped in a fallen castle or they'll be trying to outrun a bunch of wights.

So looking at the map, looks like it's just Last Hearth and maybe Karhold and the Dreadfort in the way before the AOTD gets to Winterfelll. I guess it then makes sense to make their last stand at Winterfell - the AOTD would have to cross Winterfell to get to the rest.

The civilians being send south makes sense. But considering the current leaders of the North are being isolationist and want Nexit and a separation from the rest of Westeros, I am not sure how open they would be to this strategy. Looks like there will an 'Exodus' to the south in episode 4 anyways.

Gwen and NCW on their character endings and show ending and which cast member got it right....

Apparently Kristofer mentioned Kit coming closest with his theories and we have had Kit saying he was completely wrong with all his theories lol! But Kit did say during season 7 that he thinks Tyrion is best suited to rule and would end up ruling the 7K.

Edited April 14, 2019 by anamika

[GrailKing]

LOL: