Good Girls - General Discussion

[sempervivum]

Wow, Rio is really full of himself if he didn't consider that Beth might turn the gun on him. Also, it looked like he took the first bullet right in his heart, not sure how he survives that.

Also, who cares about 'Jeff'? MaryPat never even reported him missing; why would the FBI or whoever come after the Girls for his death? 

I have to say again that I love the way Beth Martha Stewarts her way through various crises. Five different sweet treats for her big 'confession' scene, and some common household chemicals and an oven for do-it-yourself counterfeiting.

[chocolatine]

As someone who's never been a Brio shipper - I just can't ship any couple with such a big power imbalance between them - I cheered when Beth shot Rio. Not happy that Rio's probably still alive, but hopefully that will teach him not to mess with Beth.

A huge WTF to the DIY counterfeiting though. Beth's first attempts looked terrible. I don't think she's ever going to be able to replicate the quality of Rio's counterfeits, and with the FBI already knowing that there's counterfeit cash circulating in the area and the girls' involvement in it, that's just a bad idea all around. I want her to find another racket that has nothing to do with Rio. 

The only thing that would make Boomer not being dead redeemable is if he gets raped in prison while serving time for faking his death. See how he feels being on the receiving end of that.

[Trini]

Good Girls Bosses Break Down that Twisted Final Scene in the Season 2 Finale

Quote

What are you guys most excited to explore in this upcoming season?

Bans: For us [it] is the dynamic between the women and the complicated nature of their friendship. I think this season, despite all of the sort of plot moves that we covered, what always excited us the most was the idea that, "Wow, this season Beth and Ruby are really going to have a hard time of it in terms of their friendship and Annie's sort of going to be caught up in the middle." We have an interesting idea of taking that friendship dynamic even further in Season 3, because these women are really sisters in that they can hate each other one second and love each other the next. I think that's not something you always get to see a lot on TV, especially broadcast TV. That's sort of the element of the show that excites us the most, and I think what we're most excited about in Season 3.

Krebs: Even in the past seasons we've had dynamics where, which is stronger: blood or friendship? Between [Annie] and Beth versus Ruby and [Annie], and whatnot. And I think coming up, one of the cautions we've always had is like, is Beth's power and her sort of ascension to power going to be stronger than all of that? Is she going to pick her new career as a criminal over her family, or over her friendship? Or is she going to realize in that moment that those things are more important to her than any of that?

[LaMatadita]

I've suspected that they were going to end the season with Beth killing Rio since the finale episode title popped up on YouTube several weeks ago, and I went back and forth about it with every episode. Ultimately, I decided the writers were not stupid enough to kill such a fan favorite (his official YouTube mashup video has over 4.2 million views when none of their other videos have even capped 200,000), especially when the promos for nearly every episode were using that will they/won't they to sucker in viewers. Technically I don't think he's actually dead, but he might as well be.

I see no reason for the Beth/Rio story ending this way so quickly other than a) Manny Montana got a better offer and chose to leave the show (and since I don't think Rio is actually dead, that seems unlikely), b) Christina Hendricks indicated pre-season that she was willing to explore Brio but wanted the storyline finished by the end of the season, or c) the writers really did not realize how insanely popular Rio was going to get when they wrote and filmed the season.

I don't think anyone other than severely deluded teenagers believed that Beth and Rio would end up together in some traditionally romantic scenario, but they set up some really interesting dynamics and parallels between them, even as recently as 2x11, only to throw it all out the window in the finale. The writers set him up as a bad-boy-lite fantasy who has never even killed anyone onscreen in 2 full seasons (and the one guy he did kill offscreen was a criminal whose death Beth and Annie signed off on), dropped a bunch of hints that he might actually be an interesting character and not pure evil, and then pulled the rug out from under viewers at the end of the season by having him behave like a toxic spurned lover at the last second and end up choking on his own blood. (Obviously, he was pissed about the way Beth treated him, and sending her body parts in the mail was a bit extra, but I didn't really think he was wrong to be upset and certainly didn't see it going this far.)

It's not that I don't feel like he was manipulating Beth at times, but not to to the extent that they want me to believe in this episode. For a lot of people, it doesn't feel like Rio wasn't who he seemed to be, it feels like the writers were deliberately coy about Rio so that they could sucker viewers in and then punch them in the face. It wasn't an earned twist, and there were other ways of setting Beth and Rio at odds again without assassinating his character in the finale.

They also seem to be about to send her back into the arms of the man who fucked her up so badly in the first place, without any accountability for his actions. And to add insult to injury, Boomer the serial rapist gets to play the hero and get off essentially scott free?! The writers teased and misled viewers all season and then gave most of them exactly what they didn't want, in multiple ways.

I liked all of the characters on this show, even the ones who suck (like Dean, Boomer, and Mary Pat), but Beth and Rio, both together and apart, were what kept me interested enough to tune in, and now they've ruined both of them for me. 

I bet Christina Hendricks is REALLY glad she's not on social media. 😕

[BonnieD]

This show could've been so much better than it is. There are too many goofy, unlikely things. Exhibit A: the new counterfeit plan. Getting the right kind of the paper used in bills is the one of the most important elements. Not cute or funny that Beth makes a DIY print process, just dumb and stretching credulity past the breaking point. I still watch but not with the delighted glee I did that first season. Also, Beth, if you want a new business, how about opening a bakery? You have a real knack for that.

They're going to have to pull more nonsensical bullshit next year for me to buy Ruby getting sucked back in. She has the least reason to and the most reason not to. 

[PsychoDrone]

What's a common rule in movies/TV?  If there is no body, then the person isn't dead.  The show got us with Boomer, and that's because people wanted him dead anyway, but who really believes Rio is dead? ...crickets...  That what I thought.

Seriously, WTF with that finale?  So, the DA is going to drop that Ruby gave a law firm $30K in counterfeit money!?!?  I understand the embarassment of Boomer turning up alive, but that has NOTHING to do with the counterfeit money.  Also, isn't counterfeiting investigated/handled by the Secret Service?  Ruby and Stan should be fighting some serious charges independent of the other crimes.

Why are Annie and FBI guy together?  At the very least, FBI guy would lose his job.  At worst, he could be going to jail.  End this dumb storyline.  Also, no closure on the Mary Pat and dead husband?  Mary Pat mixed up with Boomer and defrauded the US government.  Guess there's only so much that can be handled in an hour.  If the show is going to drop it, then NEVER bring it up again.

Finally, Beth is going to become a counterfeiter.  It's not that easy.  Mentioned by other poster, getting the paper for money would be a monumental task in itself.  And, I'm pretty sure it's more than just "good quality" printers or everyone would be doing it.  She says they don't need Rio.  I beg to differ since they have no idea the extent of his counterfeit operation.  They've barely scratched the surface as criminals and the only reason all three of them are not in jail is due to plot armor.  I probably will be back for S3, but this show is on the bubble.

Edited May 27, 2019 by PsychoDrone

[Trini]

I don't feel as strongly or was invested as much, LaMatadita, but I don't see the point of giving Rio barely any character development in the season and then 'killing' him in the finale. Even if he wasn't a lead, he was a major player. Every other man associated with the Girls has gotten some development - even Boomer. It's ridiculous. He's not dead, but now I think he'll be even more of a plot device than a character.

And of course Beth's new plan doesn't have a chance of working. I hope Ruby doesn't go along with it.

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Not sure how I feel about Rio probably being alive.  He makes a good villain but the show might have been better by letting Beth kill him in front of the Fed whose name I can never remember.

Yeah, I was thinking that the show would be better next season without Rio, even though I thought it was pretty clear Rio isn't dead. I like Manny Montana and think he's done a lot with the little he's been given, but I also feel like Rio has run his course. Why not have the women try to do it on their own and run into problems with other people?

I hate that the FBI guy has yet another thing to hold over Beth. That is also becoming tiresome. Did he even thank her for not shooting him? I don't expect him to fall over himself, but some gratitude would be nice.

2 hours ago, BonnieD said:

Also, Beth, if you want a new business, how about opening a bakery? You have a real knack for that.

I was thinking this exact same thing!

[LaMatadita]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

I don't feel as strongly or was invested as much, LaMatadita, but I don't see the point of giving Rio barely any character development in the season and then 'killing' him in the finale. Even if he wasn't a lead, he was a major player. Every other man associated with the Girls has gotten some development - even Boomer. It's ridiculous. He's not dead, but now I think he'll be even more of a plot device than a character.

I think what's upsetting is that they dropped a lot of hints that there was more to him than meets the eye but deliberately avoided making anything explicit so they could hit viewers with a "shocking twist." And the shocking twist was apparently that Rio is an "evil sexist Latino gangbanger stereotype," to paraphrase a Reddit user. He was never a good guy, but he at least seemed nuanced, and now he's just an insulting cliche.

Also, I have a LOT of questions, mostly regarding what went down between Rio, Beth, and Turner, because a lot of that did not completely add up for me in comparison to what the writers want viewers to believe.

1. Why did Rio tip Beth off to the presence of the camera? He is not stupid and obviously let her know it was there on purpose. If he was just setting her up to take the fall for killing Turner on camera, why let her know about the camera and risk tipping her off? And why would Rio not be implicated himself just for being there, regardless of who pulled the trigger?

2. That whole phone conversation between Beth and Rio was just weird. I know we were supposed to believe they were both being manipulative, but given how they left things the last time we saw them, it seemed pretty pointless on both their parts.

3. If he was just planning to frame Beth and get off scott free, why put all his shit in storage where she had access to it, AND hint to her that she should look there?

4. Why have Ruby comment on Rio's fancy clothes as if they've never seen him wear them before and have Beth wonder "WHO is he?" right after that, especially considering that fans were already wondering about the weird clothes in his closet a couple of episodes ago? Does any of this actually mean anything?

5. Why avoid showing Rio and Beth in the car when it's obvious fans are going to wonder if they conspired together and set the whole thing up? I don't think that's what actually happened because trusting a woman who has never shot anyone in her life to be able to shoot you nonfatally is the dumbest plan ever, but this was something the writers should have anticipated given the missing time because that often means something important went down that we didn't get to see.

6. Rio was telling Beth to give him the gun when she shot him. He reaches for the gun and says something like "Shut up, bitch, and just give me the-" and then she panics and shoots him. It seemed like he was going to let her have her way and just kill Turner himself, and she shot him before he could. It makes even less sense for him to expect her to give him the gun and then shoot her with it.

7. Edited to add this one: Why did Rio put a bag over her head? Like who the fuck else would be kidnapping her? Why did she need to be surprised to see him? He was trying to unsettle her enough to actually pull the trigger on Turner, I guess, and he miscalculated?

I don't like having so many questions--it feels like there was more going on than we were privy to, and I need answers.

Edited May 27, 2019 by LaMatadita

[Chaos Theory]

This is a crime drama.  The same reason Beth doesn’t open a bakery is the reason Walter White got pissy when the car wash was successful.  That’s not how these people ultimately roll.  Which is why I am disappointed that Rio is still alive.  For a show that is about three strong women it is ultimately Rio who is holding Beth back.

[dubbel zout]

The bakery could be a front for the counterfeit/laundering operation.

[helenamonster]

Well damn.

The thing about Beth and Rio for me is that I find their characters and relationship compelling without actively rooting for them to get together. It's sort of like how I felt about Christopher and Adriana on The Sopranos way back when: a toxic relationship that was nevertheless captivating to watch because of the explosive chemistry between the actors and the implications the relationship had for the individual characters involved.

Rio telling Turner about Jeff as a way to force Beth's hand and get her to shoot him was supremely fucked up, especially because all of Beth's problems with Turner had virtually evaporated just hours earlier. He presented it in a way that he would be helping Beth, but it was more to get her to do something for him. It's hard to picture a scenario where I could even vaguely enjoy them in the purest sense, but I still hope we eventually get some good interactions between them next season because they are so compelling to watch together.

Honestly I feel like where a lot of the storylines will go next season will depend on the schedules of the ever-expanding cast of guest actors. Turner, Boomer, Mary Pat, and Noah are all very much still in the mix of things, but could also lift right out if necessary. Turner is the most likely to show up again, though I could see it not being until a few episodes in. Boomer could stick around to make trouble or go to Florida to get his new face. Mary Pat could crawl out of whatever rock she's hiding under to continue to be a thorn in the girls' sides or stay hidden forever. And Noah will either take the transfer to Phoenix or find a way to stick around Detroit for Annie. 

I'd really like for Beth and Dean to go through with the divorce. It's just too messy to clean up at this point. They can reach a detente and respect each other as former spouses and people who share four kids together, but that ship has sailed for me.

[Momager]

I’m confused as to why Beth confessed to killing Boomer?  Will someone please explain?

[LaMatadita]

Just now, Momager said:

I’m confused as to why Beth confessed to killing Boomer?  Will someone please explain?

From her conversation with Ruby, I think she was trying to take sole responsibility before Turner marched in and dragged all 3 women into it.

[Anela]

NO. Why is Beth being so stupid? 

My DVR that I've only had for about six weeks, screwed up. It shows the recording as ending at 10:47, and a few bits seemed like they were chopped up, just suddenly changing to something else, rather than finishing a scene, but I did see Beth shoot Rio. Now this guy actually seems to have saved Rio's life, and rather than sending him to prison, he's made a deal? 

Rio doesn't give a shit about Beth, he kidnapped a guy so that she could murder him. And then she turns around and decides to try to make her own fake money? I'm tired of it. 

[Anela]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Yeah, I was thinking that the show would be better next season without Rio, even though I thought it was pretty clear Rio isn't dead. I like Manny Montana and think he's done a lot with the little he's been given, but I also feel like Rio has run his course. Why not have the women try to do it on their own and run into problems with other people?

I hate that the FBI guy has yet another thing to hold over Beth. That is also becoming tiresome. Did he even thank her for not shooting him? I don't expect him to fall over himself, but some gratitude would be nice.

Same here. I was ready for him to be done, and she saved Turner's life. WTF vis his problem, that he can't just let it go? What kind of deal did he make with Rio? 

As much I don't like Rio, he isn't Beth's problem. Not anymore: Beth is. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Anela

[HunterHunted]

7 hours ago, PsychoDrone said:

Seriously, WTF with that finale?  So, the DA is going to drop that Ruby gave a law firm $30K in counterfeit money!?!?  I understand the embarassment of Boomer turning up alive, but that has NOTHING to do with the counterfeit money.  Also, isn't counterfeiting investigated/handled by the Secret Service?  Ruby and Stan should be fighting some serious charges independent of the other crimes.

Yes, this is something the Secret Service investigates. I know because some dumb kid at my brother's boarding school was arrested by the Secret Service for counterfeiting. This was in the mid 90s before they implemented all of the holographic and high tech measures to prevent counterfeiting. This kid had some super high end printer because he was rich. It only took the Secret Service 3 or 4 months to catch him despite him using it in a multiple states and different countries and him being a minor whose finger prints weren't on file.

I also know this because Apollo Nida, ex-husband of former Real Housewife of Atlanta Phaedra Parks, was stealing and washing U.S.  Treasury checks. He was arrested by the Secret Service.

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I also know this because Apollo Nida, ex-husband of former Real Housewife of Atlanta Phaedra Parks, was stealing and washing U.S.  Treasury checks. He was arrested by the Secret Service.

That's what he got locked up for? Damn.

7 hours ago, helenamonster said:

I'd really like for Beth and Dean to go through with the divorce. It's just too messy to clean up at this point. They can reach a detente and respect each other as former spouses and people who share four kids together, but that ship has sailed for me.

Me too. Beth has always said Dean is a good father, so let him just be a good father and co-parent.

19 hours ago, sempervivum said:

I have to say again that I love the way Beth Martha Stewarts her way through various crises. Five different sweet treats for her big 'confession' scene,

I laughed when one of the officers reached for some food and got A Look from everybody in the room.

I'm mad Mary Pat is still knocking around.

[preeya]

Shot to the chest from five feet (?) away should be a kill shot and then two more point-blank shots. If he's not dead this show sucks!

Edited May 28, 2019 by preeya

[Trini]

9 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I hate that the FBI guy has yet another thing to hold over Beth. That is also becoming tiresome. Did he even thank her for not shooting him? I don't expect him to fall over himself, but some gratitude would be nice.

Yeah, this was another thing I didn't like. I don't think it was necessary, plus, she didn't even kill that dude! Also hate that it means they're still connected to Mary Pat.

7 hours ago, helenamonster said:

The thing about Beth and Rio for me is that I find their characters and relationship compelling without actively rooting for them to get together. It's sort of like how I felt about Christopher and Adriana on The Sopranos way back when: a toxic relationship that was nevertheless captivating to watch because of the explosive chemistry between the actors and the implications the relationship had for the individual characters involved.

I feel similarly. But now it seems the showrunners have torpedoed the relationship. Disappointing.

[Guest]

I couldn’t understand what turner and Rio were saying at the end. The sound quality on this show seems so poor. 

[LaMatadita]

4 minutes ago, deaja said:

I couldn’t understand what turner and Rio were saying at the end. The sound quality on this show seems so poor.

Turner was offering to call 9-1-1 if Rio agreed to owe him a favor. Rio really wasn't saying much, just, y'know, gurgling blood.

[Anela]

4 minutes ago, deaja said:

I couldn’t understand what turner and Rio were saying at the end. The sound quality on this show seems so poor. 

I think it was something about whether or not he would call 911, that Rio would owe him if he called, or he could just die. 

From what I've read, my DVR definitely missed some things. I'll have to catch it on the app.

[Momager]

I totally agree about the sound quality on this show.  I thought it was just me. I routinely watch with the volume turned ALL the way up.

[Trini]

I haven't noticed the sound being bad; but then again I watch nearly everything with the closed captioning on.

[luckyroll3]

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I also know this because Apollo Nida, ex-husband of former Real Housewife of Atlanta Phaedra Parks, was stealing and washing U.S.  Treasury checks. He was arrested by the Secret Service.

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

That's what he got locked up for? Damn.

Getting more details on this just solidifies that he Apollo clearly was not the mastermind behind this.  He's the epitome of pretty, but dumb.

55 minutes ago, Trini said:

10 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I hate that the FBI guy has yet another thing to hold over Beth. That is also becoming tiresome. Did he even thank her for not shooting him? I don't expect him to fall over himself, but some gratitude would be nice.

Yeah, this was another thing I didn't like. I don't think it was necessary, plus, she didn't even kill that dude! Also hate that it means they're still connected to Mary Pat.

Same here.  Also, the first thing Beth should have done after leaving FBI guy alive was get that body out of her garden, instead of trying to figure out how to print money (also, didn't they still have a couple pallets of unwashed money in the storage units?!?!).  That dude isn't going to drop her as a case, even if he has to do it off the books.  She's his white whale and he is beyond persistent, like a pitbull attached to someone's leg.  

[tennisgurl]

So, is Turner going to hold onto Rio being shot to go onto go after Beth again? Is Rio alive? Is Turner going to go full on dirty cop and start working with Rio to bring Beth down? Because that seems kind of backwards as to how one would usually treat some random person who has done some low level crimes to a major drug supplier, but what do I know? Because if thats the case, that is next level obsession with catching one minor criminal, like god damn. She aint exactly Bin laden, and Turner isnt anywhere near Seal Team 6. 

Rio sure is a cocky son of a bitch, handing Beth that gun and assuming she would shoot Turner instead of him, the guy who keeps threatening her and just kidnapped and threatened her. Again. Rio is super hot and all, but Beth can get her rocks off somewhere else. 

I hope that Dean and Beth go through with the divorce, their marriage is clearly over, there is just too much history there for them to reconcile. I enjoy seeing them getting along and co-parenting, and them working together with the kids and getting along with each other is basically the best option for them. 

Can Boomer just be gone forever now? He might just be the slimiest, most loathsome person on this whole show, and yet he STILL keeps surviving! Despite the massive amount of people that want him dead!

Edited May 28, 2019 by tennisgurl

[andipandi]

Boomer's grandma is redeemed. I take back my harsh words.

Rio, however should have been dead. I knew he wasn't because Turner wasn't completely grateful to Beth. Someone saves your life, you don't tease that you'll rat them out over it.

Beth starting to counterfeit is completely stupid. Bonnie who posted ^ that she should open a bakery, now that would be smart.

[EtheltoTillie]

Call me crazy, but what if Rio and Turner cooked up that last scene together and they were wearing bulletproof vests and used fake blood?  It’s no crazier than anything else we’ve seen. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by GussieK

[BoogieBurns]

3 hours ago, GussieK said:

Call me crazy, but what if Rio and Turner cooked up that last scene together and they were wearing bulletproof vests and used fake blood?  It’s no crazier than anything else we’ve seen. 

Or what if Rio and Beth cooked it up when she was kidnapped on the drive?

Anything can happen.

But if anyone who works for this show reads this forum, the bakery idea is something you should explore!

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Is Rio alive?

I'd say yes, unfortunately for the plot.

Just now, BoogieBurns said:

Or what if Rio and Beth cooked it up when she was kidnapped on the drive?

Cooked up what, shooting an FBI agent? That's too stupid even for her. It's way too risky—she'd be an immediate suspect—and there'd be no way she could talk her way out of it. A plea bargain might be the chance of parole, but harming a federal agent, even a dirty one, is asking for the most severe punishment. Also, why risk being even an accomplice in something like this? She was already off the hook because Boomer turned himself in.

[BoogieBurns]

2 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Cooked up what, shooting an FBI agent? That's too stupid even for her.

Nope. Shooting Rio knowing it wouldn't kill him.

Did anyone shoot an FBI agent? 

[PsychoDrone]

The kidnapping of the Turner was just puzzling.  There was only one way that could end, with Turner's death.  Rio couldn't let him go, even if he wanted to.  Figure it was really a way to test Beth's loyalty.  Regardless, killing an FBI agent is not a good idea.  The object should be NOT to bring attention to oneself.  Yes, it's not suspicious at all that the lead FBI agent turned up dead or missing./sarcasm 

Although, I guess the show figured out a way to make it "work" in its favor.  Turner will be back next season to torment Beth in ways no real law enforcement investigator would.  Rio will turn up, as a twist to Beth and cohorts (not viewers), about mid-season.  And, the levels of suspension of disbelief required for the viewers to watch this show will be raised ever higher.

Edited May 28, 2019 by PsychoDrone

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

10 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Cooked up what, shooting an FBI agent? That's too stupid even for her.

Nope. Shooting Rio knowing it wouldn't kill him.

Did anyone shoot an FBI agent? 

Ah. Well, shooting Turner is a big risk for Rio to take. How would he know Beth wouldn't accidentally or otherwise kill him? That would solve her problem, at least with him.

Turner was beaten up, but he wasn't shot.

Edited May 29, 2019 by dubbel zout
corrected wrong name

[ShowsILoveToHate]

I don’t think that there’s any (realistic) way that Rio can be alive. 

They showed us Beth as never before; when Rio took the hood off of her she was so angry and so scared out of her mind; her mascara was running and her eyes were red. She was furious with Rio. Beth is usually shown maintaining her composure in even the most bizarre situations. And she knew that she was going to be ok legally, because of what had transpired that day, with Boomer showing up alive at the police station. 

Rio was really nasty too, TELLING Beth that Turner was her problem. TELLING her what to do.  Then when she wasn’t going to shoot him, Rio was all “Give me the gun, bitch!”  That put her over the edge and when he tried to grab the gun she shot him. What was it, twice or three times? 

When Turner dialed 9-1- on Rio’s cell phone, all Rio had to do was agree to owe him a favor. Instead of instantly agreeing (I thought that he’d be thinking of his son and not want to die!), he just laughs as he’s gurgling and drowning in his own blood. 

I think that the writers wanted to show us that Rio really did not have any redeeming qualities and really was the nasty thug that he’s been basically portrayed as.  Even very bad people can have family and kids that never see that side of them.  The show showing us Rio as a loving father with a fastidiously organized house didn’t mean anything; again, psychopaths usually have different sides to their personalities. 

With all of that blood pouring out of his mouth, and where those shots were in his chest, he’d only have a small chance of surviving if he DID immediately agree with Turner. But he didn’t, so.....

I love the actor but not the character, especially now. So I hope that Rio is dead. For real.  

Edited May 28, 2019 by ShowsILoveToHate

[Joimiaroxeu]

Whoa, Nana did the right thing finally.

Oh come on, killing an FBI agent is next-level. Rio would've held that over Beth's head forever. The only play was to shoot Rio and hope to work a deal with Turner, or shoot them both--Rio first--and then burn that warehouse to the ground. Odds are at least one of the bodies would've been identified though.

So is Turner going to use Rio to go after the good girls? Pshht. I hope Rio finds a way to blackmail him. If he survives, anyway. Bet Manny Montana and the producers will be doing some tough contract renegotiations.

Wonder if the producers knew the show had been renewed when they filmed this episode? Seemed to me like the bits with Turner trying to make a deal with a dying Rio, and Beth deciding she a has a new recipe for making counterfeit bills may have been tacked on as cliffhangers for the next season.

[WAnglais1]

(dials 9-1)

"They say one is the loneliest number." Kinda clever, in 1972.

Why would a drug dealin', counterfeitin', guy like Rio not have a code on his phone? Or was it T's phone?  

[Guest]

Okay.  I'm annoyed with that finale.  I know we've been supposed to be rooting against Turner all or most of the season, and I'm fine with that. However, we're really supposed to believe at all that Turner is so into catching Beth that he disregards the man who is a known leader of criminal activity, kidnapped him, and beat him up?  He'd rather, after being humiliated, continue going after Beth than serve up the "sure thing" of Rio?  Especially after Beth could have killed him but didn't?

[BoogieBurns]

16 minutes ago, deaja said:

He'd rather, after being humiliated, continue going after Beth than serve up the "sure thing" of Rio?  Especially after Beth could have killed him but didn't?

It makes no sense. It's why I keep coming up with stupid speculation that ties all the threads together.

Also, unrelated to the quoted text, but Mae Whitman totally strikes me as the person who is so chill she always goes to the restroom when other people are brushing their teeth. I don't mean this as an insult at all. She seems like she gets close to people instantly and it felt very "Mae" for Annie to use the restroom while chatting with Noah.

[dubbel zout]

Turner used the emergency function on the phone, so it doesn’t matter whose it is or if there’s a security code.

[LaMatadita]

On 5/27/2019 at 7:05 PM, tennisgurl said:

Because that seems kind of backwards as to how one would usually treat some random person who has done some low level crimes to a major drug supplier, but what do I know?

This has always bothered me so much. I think the writers tried to explain it with his little speech a few episodes back about how she's a bad person who hides it behind white privilege and being a soccer mom or something along those lines, but it still makes little sense to me unless there's a deeper story there about a past case or something that happened to his younger self. At the time that he decided to go after her, I believe all he really knew was that she and her friends had robbed a couple of grocery stores and she had a connection to Rio. I've assumed Rio was still on the table for him as well, especially since we saw a photo of him on Turner's desk in the same episode where he talked about Beth, but the writing hasn't really emphasized that.

I also don't really understand why Rio decided to make Beth his "fall-guy." I mean, emotionally I get it--she got him arrested, so it's good payback, and I've always thought that was part of why he spared her in the season premiere and why he gave her the "keys to the kingdom" in 2x04, etc. But why would it be believable that Beth is some kind of huge crime boss? There is no indication of her doing anything illegal until she robbed that grocery store--up until a few months ago, she was genuinely just a housewife, and I don't think there's anything in her records or her history to indicate otherwise. And how does pinning a few things on Beth get Rio out of anything? He was obviously high up on Turner's radar and had been for a while until Beth came along. Was Rio just trying to set her up to look like his equal partner in crime to take some of the heat off of him, or was he trying to make it look like Beth is actually the one calling the shots? And why is someone like Turner, who seems veteran enough to recognize these kinds of moves, falling for it? Does he know it's mostly BS but just hates her so much for participating in it at all that he's willing to let Rio set her up? Also, I agree with everything Deaja said above while I was composing this post!

16 hours ago, GussieK said:

Call me crazy, but what if Rio and Turner cooked up that last scene together and they were wearing bulletproof vests and used fake blood?  It’s no crazier than anything else we’ve seen.

That doesn't really work since there was no one else around when Turner was trying to make a deal with Rio in exchange for calling 9-1-1.

12 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

Or what if Rio and Beth cooked it up when she was kidnapped on the drive?

This is the go-to fan theory right now, but it doesn't make much sense to me. The writers should have shown a clip of them in the car with her pleading in order to make it clear that there was no planning or explanation on the way. Trusting a woman who has never shot anyone in her life to be able to shoot you nonfatally is not a very good plan, especially for someone who has a child. And Beth saying, "We can do this without him" implies that they were doing it with him before, which doesn't apply to Turner.

I do wonder if there may be more to what was going on with Rio overall that we might find out next season. Maybe his plan was not exactly what he fed to Beth and Turner, and whatever it was backfired on him. The fact that he deliberately tipped her off to the camera seems significant. I think it's likely that the entire reason Beth even went to his apartment at all was that the writers needed viewers to know there was a camera there, but there had to be other ways to do that other that than having him tell her it was there. I'm also curious about how it works. I'm assuming it's paired with an app that Rio can set up to notify him when the camera's motion sensor is tripped, which is how he knew that Beth was in his apartment a couple of episodes ago, but is that all there is to it? Turner has Rio's phone, so is he going to come at Beth with footage of her shooting Rio? Is Beth going to suddenly remember the camera's existence and spend an episode trying to figure out how to access the footage? (And then probably spend hours crying and watching old footage of Rio playing with his kid...) Or is Rio himself going to give her some way to access the footage?

12 hours ago, PsychoDrone said:

The kidnapping of the Turner was just puzzling.  There was only one way that could end, with Turner's death.  Rio couldn't let him go, even if he wanted to.  Figure it was really a way to test Beth's loyalty.  Regardless, killing an FBI agent is not a good idea.  The object should be NOT to bring attention to oneself.  Yes, it's not suspicious at all that the lead FBI agent turned up dead or missing./sarcasm

I'm struggling with this, too. Why would Rio believe that Beth would do this, given how many times she has refused to use violence to solve problems, and given that he knows she didn't kill Boomer? He has to have anticipated the possibility that Beth wouldn't be able to do it, meaning he would have to kill Turner himself, with his own gun, and risk bringing all that heat on himself. Him clearing out his apartment makes it seem like he was planning to disappear after this, but could he disappear well enough to avoid the kind of investigation that would ensue after the murder of a Fed?

11 hours ago, ShowsILoveToHate said:

I think that the writers wanted to show us that Rio really did not have any redeeming qualities and really was the nasty thug that he’s been basically portrayed as.

It does feel that way, for the most part, and that's why it's so galling for fans of his character. The showrunner has said before that Rio was supposed to die around the middle of S1, but she and the other writers immediately noticed that really strong onscreen chemistry between Manny and Christina and decided, on their own without any input from viewers at that point, to keep him around and explore that. Then the first season aired and they saw how viewers responded to it, and their tactic for season 2 was to portray him as a gangbanger-lite bad boy who seemed to have nuance and an interesting backstory, have him do a few things here and there to keep Beth and viewers on their toes, and then pull the rug out from under everyone in the finale and reveal him to be... a racist stereotype and a one-note villain all in one go? Was this always the plan going into the season, or did they not decide this until around the time they decided to have her reject him in 2x09 or even after that? Double-cross her, sure, but damn, they really just threw his character on the bonfire and tried to gaslight a lot of viewers into thinking that everything they thought they saw from him all season was fake. Not only is that a pretty shitty way to surprise your viewers with a fan favorite, but it also seems like a dumb narrative move because it turns what seemed like a complicated and nuanced frenemy with mysterious motives into a boring one-note villain and ruins all that chemistry that they wanted to capitalize on in order to attract viewers in the first place.

11 hours ago, ShowsILoveToHate said:

The show showing us Rio as a loving father with a fastidiously organized house didn’t mean anything; again, psychopaths usually have different sides to their personalities.

It's always seemed pretty clear to me that "Rio" is his gameface, and that there's another side to him (apparently "Christopher") that is a single father who cooks dinner and takes his son to baseball practice and spends the occasional Friday night playing PS4 with his kid and occasionally hooks up with cute girls on Tinder. I don't think that means he has no redeeming qualities, but the writers have definitely tried to indicate that a) he's a typical Bad Man who turns hurt feelings over rejection into toxic masculinity and betrayal, and b) they don't give a rat's ass about developing his character in any way and are perfectly fine with not exploring "Christopher" and just focusing on "Rio" as a villain for Beth to deal with from here on out. I think a lot of viewers felt like the writers actually had an interest in developing his character at some point, and now it seems like they really do not, so unless that changes or there's more to what happened in the finale that somehow redeems his character, I think anyone who tunes in to S3 expecting them to have bumped him up to an interesting PoV character (now that he can't just share scenes with Beth) are probably going to be disappointed.

I was also baffled by the writers saying that after killing Rio, Beth realized she's really a good person. What?! Are they delusional, or is Beth? On a show that has shown itself to be this dark, I feel like she thinks she's fully severed her connection with Rio when ultimately she let his "take care of your rotten egg" mentality win and took her first steps toward becoming Rio. Beth is problematic and complicated, and she has repeatedly been shown to be just as power-hungry and clever as Rio is. They're parallels of each other, and he has clearly always seen that even if she didn't. This is what the writers should be going for as a S3 dynamic--that Beth is not nearly as "good" as she thinks she wants to be, and Rio damn well knows it. That could still be a really interesting dynamic for them. Instead, I feel like they're going to turn Rio into some lame early 2000s horror movie villain who kills Dean and sends her his body parts.

10 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Wonder if the producers knew the show had been renewed when they filmed this episode?

Nope!

Edited May 29, 2019 by LaMatadita

[dcalley]

Beth could get her adrenaline rush at the bakery by feeding unsuspecting people gluten.

The finale contained a song by Connie Converse, which was a nice surprise. She was an interesting person. (I assume she's dead by now. No one's seen her since 1974.)

[zibnchy]

I just finished the season and I'm disappointed they didn't show us more of Sadie's story. Sadie had maybe one conversation (on air) about it with Annie and all of a sudden everyone is cool and Sadie is a boy. That's great and it would be so cool if it were true but I would have liked to see more of the process. I think the show missed a huge opportunity to show us, the viewers, a little bit of what Sadie is going thru. I wish it was all as simple as telling mom you're a boy now. They barely broached the subject of puberty blockers and then dropped it.

Did Sadie pick a new name? I missed it if he did.

I know the show isn't about Sadie but, after two seasons of utter nonsense, Sadie is the only character I still love unabashedly so I'd like to know more about him.

While I'm here -- are we really supposed to believe that after "counterfeiting" a couple of bills on her home computer Beth feels qualified to lead a counterfeiting gang? Really? She's going to go to Office Max and get their most spiffy printer and maybe "hire a graphic designer"? Really? I can suspend disbelief with the best but Oh Hell No.

That bakery idea is a very good one. Beth should go with that.

[PsychoDrone]

There will be a time jump with next season.  Beth's counterfeiting ring will be in full swing and she will have a ... "wait for it" ... "wait for it" ... BAKERY as the front for laundering her money.  Show will want to get to the good stuff, instead of showing the growing pains of getting the counterfeiting operation off the ground.  Also, someone will realize that, to have a sense of realism, the Secret Service will be involved.  There will be a new federal agent that works will Turner to bring down Beth and her "gang".

[Guest]

6 hours ago, LaMatadita said:

I was also baffled by the writers saying that after killing Rio, Beth realized she's really a good person. What?! Are they delusional, or is Beth?

I think Beth is. She seems to think she’s justified overall in her actions.

[Raja]

Fans were speculating that the love whipped undercover Fed was Rio's man earlier in the season. I am thinking that come next season we will find out that Turner has always been Rio's man inside, probably blackmailed  and Beth was just someone  to be thrown away so the FBI would see Turner's progress.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

 I am thinking that come next season we will find out that Turner has always been Rio's man ins ide, probably blackmailed

I like this theory. Earlier in the season when we saw some guy in the shadows at Turner's apartment it never made sense to me that it was Turner's boyfriend. What would be the point of treating him like some big secret? No way is Turner not out to the FBI because trying to be in the closet would make him vulnerable to blackmail. At the time I posited that it was Rio and then later wavered. Now I'm back on that theory, baby! Kudos to the show if they're playing the long game with the reveal. Guess we'll see if Rio/Manny is back next season.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I like this theory. Earlier in the season when we saw some guy in the shadows at Turner's apartment it never made sense to me that it was Turner's boyfriend. What would be the point of treating him like some big secret? No way is Turner not out to the FBI because trying to be in the closet would make him vulnerable to blackmail. At the time I posited that it was Rio and then later wavered. Now I'm back on that theory, baby! Kudos to the show if they're playing the long game with the reveal. Guess we'll see if Rio/Manny is back next season.

The guy wasn't in the shadows though - we saw him, heard his voice, etc.

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

The guy wasn't in the shadows though - we saw him, heard his voice, etc.

Didn't he go to Ruby and Stan's house for dinner? 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

Didn't he go to Ruby and Stan's house for dinner? 

That too.  I was just thinking of the scene at the apartment.