S03.E16: Absent Child

[Artsda]

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The Lyons fear that the Dubois family is to blame for their latest family crisis, so when no one is willing to give up any information, Cookie takes matters into her own hands. Jamal and Lucious reach a breakthrough in a song on which they have been working, and Andre lashes out. 

That opening scenes of the Lyons walking into the meeting was so awesome. Loved it. I agree with Cookie on the family being united being for the best, but she only has now come to this decision because Angelo and her broke up.

They did good at making me think it was Andre, especially with him going after Anika then to have it be the Dubois's all along. 

I feel like the Nia Long plot is failing, whether they're cutting scenes or what I think the behind the scenes stuff has affected how this story is playing out.

[Dee]

That was AMAZING.

The scene with the New Money Lyons strutting in to meet the Old Money Dubois family is/was ICONIC.

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Cookie: "Bitch, do you want me to jump across this table, because I don't have all day for this, okay?!"

Diana: "You feeling froggy? Leap!"

Cookie: "Ok! Well here I come!"

I had to pause the episode for a good 10 minutes after the above exchange because I was in literal tears from laughing.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Dee

[Athena5217]

I loved Jamal shutting Lucious down in the studio. Like many bullies, Lucious talks tough but is a coward.

i feel like I missed something in the scene where Grandma Lyon is arranging the cupboard. I didn't see any rat poison, but that's the kind of thing I was expecting.

[Sheenieb]

This may be unpopular, but I can't with Cookie. Her hood-booger antics were on level 10 and it was too much. Nessa has more restraint than I thought because no one's ratchet-ass mama was putting their hands on me. I wouldn't have blamed Nessa one bit for tapping Cookie back.

Unrelated, but I miss Nessa's old look. All that hair overwhelms her face and I almost didn't recognize her. There has to be some middle ground.

I do have to wonder if Angelo really thought he and Cookie would've worked. Respectability and the Lyons have never been a match. He should holla at Hakeeem's ex-fiancee. She dipped at the altar because she knew that she couldn't hang.

I'm disappointed that the DuBois' were behind the Bella snatching. I hoped it was Andre.

Grandma Lyon was using bleach cream. The jar said 'Euro white.'

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I feel like the Nia Long plot is failing, whether they're cutting scenes or what I think the behind the scenes stuff has affected how this story is playing out.

Agreed. I'm so lost with this Vegas plot and I don't care.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Sheenieb

[Dee]

I love Nessa but she had it coming, and, given what was at stake, Cookie's reaction was decidedly restrained.

She should've understood her place & worked from there. Instead she wanted to play with the big dogs and got mauled. Hopefully she's learned her lesson.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Dee

[ahpny]

The scene with Lucious and his mother at the piano (where they discussed Jamal) worked well. Nice work for both actors. It also expended Lucious' character a bit so he's more complex and not merely purely evil.

[Joimiaroxeu]

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I am really not surprised that the Dubois family had something to do with this.

Is it really the Dubois "family" though? Angelo genuinely seemed surprised when he saw the baby. I think this all on Diana. He's probably going to end up doing the right thing and returning Bella even though Cookie did have him beaten.

I like that the Lyons have a nemesis that unites them as a family, and is one that they can't match in social or political power in New York. No matter how much money they amass the Lyons will never be anything more than nouveau riche who still can go thug at the drop of a hat. I don't see how Diana escapes a kidnapping charge but I hope the Dubois somehow stick around. (Plus Phylicia Rashad is killing it as the classic Black Rich Bitch.)

And about Grandma Lyon, I wasn't paying full attention at the moment but wasn't she just putting that cream on her neck? I figured it was anti-wrinkle cream but then there'd be no need to hide that. That'll be an interesting topic for the show to go into if it is indeed about skin bleaching and colorism. Have any regular broadcast shows ever gone there before?

[Dakisela]

I'm blending the last two shows together because I watched both back to back, but didn't Angelo call Mrs. duBois "Grandma" after Cookie encountered them to offer some sort of public apology/explanation? 

[Biggie B]

Lucious, to his mother: "Am I a good father?"

Leah, in response: "You're not even a good person."

Lucious: "True."

Leah doesn't get that much to say in this show, but when she does speak, it's priceless.

 

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And about Grandma Lyon, I wasn't paying full attention at the moment but wasn't she just putting that cream on her neck? I figured it was anti-wrinkle cream but then there'd be no need to hide that.

Seeing as Leah was in Bella's nursery, I assumed it was some sort of baby lotion at first, and that Leah, missing Bella so much, wanted some of the baby's scent on her. But we were specifically shown the label...so we'll see where this goes. When Leah showed Lucious the pictures of his father, that was a tender moment between the two of them, and I actually felt for Lucious.

I thought Andre might have been behind Bella's removal, as a way of getting back at Anika. In the "previously on 'Empire'" scenes, they included that moment when ghost Rhonda instructed Andre to get revenge on 'that bitch who killed our baby.' So that why I thought Andre might have orchestrated the Bella situation. However...that flashback must have only served as a set-up to Andre and Anika's scene in which he semi-choked her as she claimed she deserved to suffer. Perhaps it really was Angelo's mother acting on her own to snatch Bella. I truly don't think Angelo would do something like that.

I can't stand Guiliana.

[TobinAlbers]

I knew as soon as Andre confronted Anika that he didn't have anything to do with Bella's kidnapping which is kind of disappointing. I get it, it's a line that he wouldn't be able to recover from within the family if it ever got out, but seriously Anika killed his wife and child to clear herself a place in the family and no one gives a damn. I get why Andre is too through with this group and yet Cookie is more concerned about Giuliana and Andre taking his meds when she's not addressing the real issues - her son is angry and grieving.

Having said that, wow Mama DuBois. You got some ovaries of steel and she does make a damn good antagonist for the Lyons. She told Cookie to go ahead and make her froggy leap, LOL. Angelo definitely didn't know about her taking Bella, but he needs to think long and hard about turning her in to the Lyons seeing as how Cookie went straight to torture, I could see him being worried that Lucious and Cookie would really straight up kill his mother. There might be a way to save his mother if he brokers a backdoor deal with Jamal somehow. Maybe.

11 hours ago, Athena5217 said:

I loved Jamal shutting Lucious down in the studio. Like many bullies, Lucious talks tough but is a coward.

Good grief was that an amazing shade moment. Although I simply cannot believe *no* one has put a cap in Lucious' ass. He's just been too hateful and a jackass for him to have escaped with no physical scars. But then maybe the show was planting that Lucious may finally join the bullet club at the end of the season! One can hope.

11 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

This may be unpopular, but I can't with Cookie. Her hood-booger antics were on level 10 and it was too much. Nessa has more restraint than I thought because no one's ratchet-ass mama was putting their hands on me. I wouldn't have blamed Nessa one bit for tapping Cookie back.

I'm at this table. I love that we got to see a strong, take charge Cookie but damn, woman. Backhanding a girl for speaking her mind? Did you see those heavy rings on her hand? She could've broke Nessa jaw! And they went way overboard having Angelo picked up and tortured with her sitting court over his judgement. I'm honestly at a point that the only Lyon I root for is Bella to get the hell away from this crew.

Yes, Cookie did 17 years for Lucious, but I had to cackle when Giuliana said 'Yes, thanks for that, but I'll take over now.' 1)  because Anika thought that too and look where she ended up and 2) because Cookie can't keep playing that card forever. It's actually becoming predictable that she throws that at him at least twice a season when she knows this man will do whatever the hell he wants. Although I do think in this case Lucious is using Giuliana to get his revenge and get what he wants and just freezing Cookie out because he thinks he's protecting her.

[Dee]

Nessa speaking her mind wasn't the problem. Nessa speaking out of turn is what got her in trouble.

I don't have a much of a problem with Cookie referencing her prison bid to her family. She has experienced way more suffering than any of them will ever imagine, for them, and they are constantly quick to take her sacrifice for granted.

Andre has experienced huge losses over the past year, that have gone far to making him seem like a victim, but he's hardly been a saint; before or after his personal tragedies.

It's actually quite poetic that Andre's been paired with Cookie lately, because the rest of the Lyons (including Andre), have studiously disregarded her pain because it's inconvenient for them to deal with.

Sure, they occasionally joke about their Mother being an OG, and they cede her space, usually, when she goes into 'Mama Bear' mode, but none of the men in her life (including her beloved Jamal) have ever properly thanked her for, or exhibited the slightest interest in, her time in prison. None of them have recommended therapy, or meds for Cookie either (not that she would be amenable to their suggestions but still). 

So, as Cookie told Lucious, once he began chafing during his brief incarceration last season, if three months is enough to make him fold, he should imagine how he'd feel 5 years later, let alone 17.

Which is not to say I believe that the Lyons don't need to make a concerted effort to do better as it relates to Andre's mental health, but that it's not a zero sum game. Andre, as an adult, has to want to be better and take responsibility for himself (as Nessa, Rhonda & Cookie have all encouraged him to do).

Until he makes a serious effort to be self sufficient, instead of just stewing in resentment at the world, he's gonna remain on a downward spiral; and no amount of emphatic support from Nessa or sweetly considerate med schedule flow charts from Jamal are gonna make any difference.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Dee

[Vixenstud]

3 hours ago, Biggie B said:

 

Lucious, to his mother: "Am I a good father?"

Leah, in response: "You're not even a good person."

Lucious: "True."

Leah doesn't get that much to say in this show, but when she does speak, it's priceless.

 

Shucks, I cringed when she said that….TH and LU have great chemistry.

I loved take charge/hood rat-ratchet Cookie last night!  From her slapping Nessa back down into her lane to the froggy exchange with Mama Clair to batting down Angelo, she was in her element last night!  Cracked up too at how she treats Porsha.

I’d really feel bad for Hakeem if I could only stop drooling at his body….lawd.

Nia Long is sucking the life out of a role that could have meant something; after reading all the behind the scenes stuff I’m just waiting for her character to scoot, and the sooner the better.

WHY did Timbaland have to leave?  There haven’t been any Drip-Drop-like tunes this season, and that makes me sad.

[eXiled]

I'm calling shenanigans on the camera angles during the scene with Cookie/Lucious/Guiliana. Were Taraji and Nia even in the room at the same time? It was framed so strangely that it took me out of the scene.

Shades of The Good Wife and their creative filming.

[Athena5217]

7 hours ago, Vixenstud said:

WHY did Timbaland have to leave?  There haven’t been any Drip-Drop-like tunes this season, and that makes me sad.

I agree the music hasn't been nearly as good this season.

[phoenics]

That entrance scene of the Lyons walking in was ICONIC.  Dang talk about Dynasty.

And when Jamal asked who had been shot and Lucious didn't raise his hand, I was like "Wait for it."  Someone will shoot him eventually.  Just like they shot JR.

Diana DuBois done gone too far with her #FakeAssClaireHuxtable self.  But I am loving every moment.  Her retorts to Cookie, lol.  I kinda think she and Angelo and their family are the answer to all of the people screaming about how awful Empire is for the black community - so we got some bougie folks here now to preach respectability politics and then prove that they are down and dirty too.  They just have old money and political clout.  Diana DuBois is giving off Dominique Devereaux mixed with Stephanie Forrester and I love it.  Angelo is looking like an even weaker Ridge Forrester right now.  Or maybe Thorne - since he lost to Lucious and all.

When Cookie balled her hands up in a fist and told Andre, "I need you to understand what I'm about to do." I knew something was coming.

And then she slapped the holy ghost out of Nessa. 

I. HOLL.ER.ED.

I literally rewound that like a thousand times, lol.  Dang - that was classic Cookie.

Honestly I love Cookie having adversaries because it brings out the epic one liners and ad-libs as only Taraji can do them... I live for those.

And I agree about Nessa's hair - it's too much and her shorter hairstyle was super cute and stylish.  I hate the weave trend - it ruined her edgy look to me.  She's drowned by all that fake hair.  Bad choice by the wardrobe/beauty department.

And YES that was skin lightening cream that Mama Lyon had.  I almost think it's the writers making up for casting a much lighter woman to play an aged Kelly Rowland... remember how we were perplexed that she was so much lighter than Kelly's Mama Lucious?  Guess this is the reason, lol.

I'm still not sure what Lucious' game is with Guiliana.  I don't much care.  Cookie is clearly using Empire and Vegas to stay close to Lucious, under the guise of protecting what's hers from Guiliana - but she clearly wants him back.  It's kinda funny seeing the tables turned, even if I don't think Lucious is worth it.  But when Cookie is the one looking out of control gangsta and Lucious looks all calm and rational ... well... dang.

Baby Bella's abduction broke my heart.  I felt sick for Anika - even knowing all that she did.  Grace Byers sells that SO well... that kind of raw pain... she gets all snotty when she cries too.  I really thought Andre was behind that, and I'm still not sure he wasn't.  He could have set things in motion, but then tipped Diana off so she could take Bella.  I can see him doing that to Anika - but Hakeem?  Not sure.

The only thing missing from this episode was seeing Andre and Jamal rally around Hakeem like Hakeem and Andre rallied around Jamal and Hakeem and Jamal rallied around Andre.  I miss the brother bonding scenes like those.  Come to think of it, we haven't seen nearly enough Jamal/Hakeem bonding this season.  I miss that.

This episode was FIRE.  Love it - I truly believe it's back to S1 form.  MORE please!  And PLEASE keep the Dubois family around.  

[PsychoDrone]

ITA with others about Nessa.  Nessa has a habit of talking out of turn and suffering the consequences for it.  Shine welled up on her too, but didn't hit her.  Although, she knew she was moments from getting a shot in the mouth.  Also, lose the weave.  She looks patently ridiculous.  The multi-colored fur didn't help either.

Can't get behind the taking of Bella.  Didn't like it when Sons of Anarchy did similar storyline and it doesn't work here.  It's more parody than real, considering how it was done.  CPS taking the baby on a single report, no investigation, with SWAT in tow to ensure the baby is handed over.  Yeah, right!!

So, which project is going to win out?  Will it be "Inferno" or "When Cookie met Luscious"?  I'm on pins and needles waiting for the result./sarcasm

[Dee]

9 minutes ago, phoenics said:

And YES that was skin lightening cream that Mama Lyon had.  I almost think it's the writers making up for casting a much lighter woman to play an aged Kelly Rowland... remember how we were perplexed that she was so much lighter than Kelly's Mama Lucious?  Guess this is the reason, lol.

That's exactly what they were doing.

The episode's writers, Malcolm Spellman & Attica Locke, confirmed their brilliant little meta joke on twitter. lol

[Dee]

17 minutes ago, phoenics said:

The only thing missing from this episode was seeing Andre and Jamal rally around Hakeem like Hakeem and Andre rallied around Jamal and Hakeem and Jamal rallied around Andre.  I miss the brother bonding scenes like those.

Spoiler

From the previews, you'll get your wish next week.

[damnman]

what was the Claire Huxtable comment that Cookie made?

[tennisgurl]

Oh my God, the whole Lyon clan power walking into the meeting was AMAZING! The classic New Money vs Old Money clash, I love it. The Lyons play hard, and have lots of money and fans, but the DuBois clan has clout and respectability that the Lyons will never have in  New York society. I'm loving this. Its great to give the Lyons antagonists who aren't gangsters or musicians, so they cant fight against them in their usual ways. Cookie having guys beat the crap out of Angelo isn't going to do much beyond pissing Mama DuBois off.

Speaking of, Mama DuBois is all kinds of scary. Her holding baby Bella while cooing about the newest DuBois was just chilling. I think Angelo is going to turn his mom in for this, or tell Cookie what's really going on. Angelo may not be the best guy ever, and is probably somewhat corrupt when it comes to the Lyons, I think kidnapping a baby might be too much for him. That being said, I don't feel all that bad for Anika, even though the actress is killing it and really does make me feel her pain. She still killed Rhonda and her and Andres unborn child, which is pretty unforgivable. And what makes it worse is, Anika basically got everything she wanted. She got rid of her competition, and she got to have a Lyon baby and be accepted into the family. I will be surprised if Andre never does more than almost strangle her.

Someone take the Live Stream away from Hakeem! Him getting all his fans into a tizzy isn't going to make anything better!

[Margohill]

My Cookie from S1 is back!!! Cookie handled this episode fabulously.

I agree with everyone that the opening scene with the Lyons and their entourage walking in to meet with the Dubois was epic! At first I thought, "what is happening now?" I was happy to see the family uniting to fight to get their baby back.

Now at the conference table, THE REAL COOKIE from S1 showed up and I was very, very happy to see that. I had almost forgotten that side of Cookie and it is what makes her real and a great character regardless of how others might perceive her or how she behaves. Yes, she can learn to speak well and behave like Diana Dubois, but deep inside, you are who you are as we all saw who the real Diana Dubois was, at the end of the episode. When Cookie stood up and walked away from that table with the rest of the Lyons trailing behind her, that moment was real for me. I knew she meant business and the Dubois were in deep trouble.

Lucious Lyon: "When we hit, we hit real hard"  Ain't that the truth? 

Thirsty lecturing the Lyons about their reputation as unfit parents (on paper) was very good. I appreciate the fact that the Lyons are coming to the realization that their reputation was not helping them. They have to clean up and unite as a family and for Thirsty to advice Anika to split from the Lyons as a way to help her get her baby back, said a lot. Now all of them have to check themselves out and start acting like a real family. Great scene.

I was shocked when the social worker said they couldn't trace baby Bella. How could a baby disappear from the system like that? That's when I thought Andre couldn't be involved. It had to be someone who had people inside the system to manipulate things. 

OMG!! Cookie and Shine in that Dry-cleaning room with Angelo Dubois. That was something else. Poor Angelo, he had no idea who he was dealing with and to Cookie's credit, she can smell a stench where there is one and she was right on the money even though Angelo had no idea. When she told Angelo that all those things his mother had told him about her being "ghetto and from the hood", was right. That was the real Cookie talking and I loved it. This is the Cookie who knows what's real and has the right instinct. Great scene. Didn't feel sorry for Angelo at all. After calling Cookie and her family trash, he got what he deserved.

Cookie giving Nessa the backhand, my oh my! Didn't see that one coming. I guess Andre didn't brief Nessa who his mother is or she was not smart enough to have picked that up all the time she had been with Andre. She had no business talking like that to Cookie. That was between Cookie and her son. She should have stayed out of that conversation. Besides she knew Andre wasn't all that into her, why bother to defend Andre? Stay clear of Cookie's path. Well, Nessa did finally realize that she was just a pawn in Andre's game. Andre is too hurt and in much grief to be ready for a real relationship. All he wants to do right now is get back at Lucious and anyone who has hurt him. He is a walking time bomb fill with hurt and grief. Andre has also turned on Shine too!! SMH

On 5/11/2017 at 10:16 AM, TobinAlbers said:

I knew as soon as Andre confronted Anika that he didn't have anything to do with Bella's kidnapping which is kind of disappointing. I get it, it's a line that he wouldn't be able to recover from within the family if it ever got out, but seriously Anika killed his wife and child to clear herself a place in the family and no one gives a damn. I get why Andre is too through with this group and yet Cookie is more concerned about Giuliana and Andre taking his meds when she's not addressing the real issues - her son is angry and grieving.

I totally agree with this. People should also realize that this boy is hurting.  Losing your baby and wife is not something that should be taken lightly and the Lyons need to address Andre's grief and show some sympathy and support for the boy. It's not easy for him as well. I thought Andre was going to snap Anika's neck and I wouldn't have cared if he did. She sold her soul to become a Lyon and now she is the center of attention with her baby being snatched. How does she think Andre feels when she practically terminated the life of his own baby?  That was wrong and cruel and Anika deserves a harsher punishment. Andre being the God-fearing boy that he is, decided it was not worth it. I really feel sorry for Andre. It's like no one cares about his losses. It's really sad.

Jamal standing up to Lucious was grand. I was shocked to see that Lucious had never been shot. You would think with the kind of life he has led he would have at least caught a bullet. Boy! I'm sure he just felt very small at that moment. That was a smart thing for Jamal to do to prove to his father that for once, he was not as tough as he thought he was. I was terribly scared when that rapper started bleeding in the studio though.

Mama  Lucious using some skin-lightening cream? I'm interested to see where that leads. You would think she would apply it to her face also. Why just on her neck though? Her scene with Lucious was touching. I thought they would talk about what she did to Lucious as a child and make some apologies. Well maybe next time. One step at a time.

The big reveal about the baby-snatcher had me screaming OMG!!! I never would have suspected who it turned out to be. So for all the talk about being "Uppity" and well-bred, polished and refined, it turns out that Diana Dubois is just a plain old criminal, abducting a baby. That's a serious crime. Angelo finally realizes that Cookie was right all along. What a bummer!!!! Now what to do? His mama is really crazy. How does she expect to keep that baby hidden? Cookie will rip her to pieces. That is what I cannot wait to see. It will be epic. Poor Angelo, scammed by his own mother. Now who is the real thug?

Why is Guiliana on this show? She just rubs my feathers the wrong way. Her scenes are just flat and her story-line is not that interesting. I hope they wrap up her story-line soon. Just nothing there for me. Cookie needs to remind Lucious, that she did 17 years for him. If not, Lucious would have been the one in jail and would never have had the career that allowed him to meet with Guiliana in the first place. Lucious NEEDS to be reminded of that EVERY SINGLE DAY. Cookie is running around trying to put out fires and trying to get the family together and Lucious is being the devil as usual.

Great episode. Finally, EMPIRE WRITERS ARE BACK!!! I am delighted. 9/10

[Dee]

I find it highly ironic how all three Lyon sons are quick to take Cookie to task about her lingering feelings for Lucious, when all three of them, constantly prostrate themselves for his affection.

[Landlord]

But why was the skin-lightening cream IN baby Bella's room? That's what bothers me.

[Queena]

15 hours ago, phoenics said:

That entrance scene of the Lyons walking in was ICONIC.  Dang talk about Dynasty.

And when Jamal asked who had been shot and Lucious didn't raise his hand, I was like "Wait for it."  Someone will shoot him eventually.  Just like they shot JR.

Diana DuBois done gone too far with her #FakeAssClaireHuxtable self.  But I am loving every moment.  Her retorts to Cookie, lol.  I kinda think she and Angelo and their family are the answer to all of the people screaming about how awful Empire is for the black community - so we got some bougie folks here now to preach respectability politics and then prove that they are down and dirty too.  They just have old money and political clout.  Diana DuBois is giving off Dominique Devereaux mixed with Stephanie Forrester and I love it.  Angelo is looking like an even weaker Ridge Forrester right now.  Or maybe Thorne - since he lost to Lucious and all.

When Cookie balled her hands up in a fist and told Andre, "I need you to understand what I'm about to do." I knew something was coming.

 

And then she slapped the holy ghost out of Nessa. 

I. HOLL.ER.ED.

I literally rewound that like a thousand times, lol.  Dang - that was classic Cookie.  

Honestly I love Cookie having adversaries because it brings out the epic one liners and ad-libs as only Taraji can do them... I live for those.

And I agree about Nessa's hair - it's too much and her shorter hairstyle was super cute and stylish.  I hate the weave trend - it ruined her edgy look to me.  She's drowned by all that fake hair.  Bad choice by the wardrobe/beauty department.

And YES that was skin lightening cream that Mama Lyon had.  I almost think it's the writers making up for casting a much lighter woman to play an aged Kelly Rowland... remember how we were perplexed that she was so much lighter than Kelly's Mama Lucious?  Guess this is the reason, lol.

I'm still not sure what Lucious' game is with Guiliana.  I don't much care.  Cookie is clearly using Empire and Vegas to stay close to Lucious, under the guise of protecting what's hers from Guiliana - but she clearly wants him back.  It's kinda funny seeing the tables turned, even if I don't think Lucious is worth it.  But when Cookie is the one looking out of control gangsta and Lucious looks all calm and rational ... well... dang.

Baby Bella's abduction broke my heart.  I felt sick for Anika - even knowing all that she did.  Grace Byers sells that SO well... that kind of raw pain... she gets all snotty when she cries too.  I really thought Andre was behind that, and I'm still not sure he wasn't.  He could have set things in motion, but then tipped Diana off so she could take Bella.  I can see him doing that to Anika - but Hakeem?  Not sure.

The only thing missing from this episode was seeing Andre and Jamal rally around Hakeem like Hakeem and Andre rallied around Jamal and Hakeem and Jamal rallied around Andre.  I miss the brother bonding scenes like those.  Come to think of it, we haven't seen nearly enough Jamal/Hakeem bonding this season.  I miss that.

This episode was FIRE.  Love it - I truly believe it's back to S1 form.  MORE please!  And PLEASE keep the Dubois family around.  

So did I! That was a slap of beauty! 

[phoenics]

4 hours ago, Landlord said:

But why was the skin-lightening cream IN baby Bella's room? That's what bothers me.

She was probably hiding it... folks don't like to admit self hatred typically.

9 hours ago, damnman said:

what was the Claire Huxtable comment that Cookie made?

She called her a fake ass Claire Huxtable.

[Chairperson Meow]

I wonder if the rumored Taraji and Nia Long feud is making the Guilliana story weird.  I can't see her as an actual Luscious love interest.  This is a role imo for Janet Jackson.  I mean, at her best Janet Jackson.  She's one I can see pulling this off and being able to do music scenes.  Which, we all know is what Lucious is drawn to.  Also, if I'm dream casting, I want to see Viola Davis go head to head in a story with Taraji.  

[Empress1]

On 5/12/2017 at 0:16 PM, Margohill said:

I totally agree with this. People should also realize that this boy is hurting.  Losing your baby and wife is not something that should be taken lightly and the Lyons need to address Andre's grief and show some sympathy and support for the boy. It's not easy for him as well. I thought Andre was going to snap Anika's neck and I wouldn't have cared if he did. She sold her soul to become a Lyon and now she is the center of attention with her baby being snatched. How does she think Andre feels when she practically terminated the life of his own baby?  That was wrong and cruel and Anika deserves a harsher punishment. Andre being the God-fearing boy that he is, decided it was not worth it. I really feel sorry for Andre. It's like no one cares about his losses. It's really sad.

Jamal standing up to Lucious was grand. I was shocked to see that Lucious had never been shot. You would think with the kind of life he has led he would have at least caught a bullet. Boy! I'm sure he just felt very small at that moment. That was a smart thing for Jamal to do to prove to his father that for once, he was not as tough as he thought he was. I was terribly scared when that rapper started bleeding in the studio though.

Yeah, the dismissal of Andre's grief really bothers me. Anika murdered his unborn baby. She told Rhonda straight up that she wanted her kid to be the only heir; she pushed Rhonda down the stairs with the intent to kill that baby. And she killed Rhonda too. And no one in the family says anything to Andre about it - and they know he suffers from a mental illness, so I'd think that they should be extra vigilant in times like this - AND they all rally around her now that Bella is missing? Fuck that. I did not feel sorry for her when Andre was yelling at her, she deserves it and worse. (That had to be an intense scene for the married-in-real-life actors though.) Anika has a lot of work to do to get me to care about her as a character.

Loved Jamal revealing Lucious to be the only one who hasn't been shot. Also liked his mother telling him he wasn't a good person. I'm glad Terence cut his hair, although his dye job remains unsubtle. Agree on Vanessa's hair. Too much. And agree that she spoke out of turn.

22 hours ago, phoenics said:

She was probably hiding [the bleaching cream]... folks don't like to admit self hatred typically.

Yeah - and she was embarrassed to be caught using it, and dodged the question when asked what she was doing.

I don't understand the Giuliana plot and I don't care.

The old v. new money strut was bomb.

[Landlord]

Ah, I was affraid it was maybe for Baby Bella (since Anika is light skinned), dunno, I watched DR. Phil and such too much; one too many articles about mothers bleaching (or whatever creams) their kids's skins/relaxing their hairs. Thought the writers were going there. Thanks for setting me straight ^:D

[Dee]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Yeah, the dismissal of Andre's grief really bothers me. Anika murdered his unborn baby. She told Rhonda straight up that she wanted her kid to be the only heir; she pushed Rhonda down the stairs with the intent to kill that baby. And she killed Rhonda too. And no one in the family says anything to Andre about it - and they know he suffers from a mental illness, so I'd think that they should be extra vigilant in times like this - AND they all rally around her now that Bella is missing? Fuck that. I did not feel sorry for her when Andre was yelling at her, she deserves it and worse. (That had to be an intense scene for the married-in-real-life actors though.) Anika has a lot of work to do to get me to care about her as a character.

To be fair, I think the family is rallying more for Hakeem than Anika.

Besides Lucious, none of the other Lyons know about Anika's true motives towards Rhonda. As far as they know, Rhonda's death was an accident; and that she had previously accused Anika, with no solid proof, of a crime they all agreed could've been committed by anyone.

Also, none of them have been overly warm to Anika. They've tolerated her presence because of Hakeem & Bella, and only recently have Lucious & Cookie grudgingly given her props, for honoring her word about Tariq. But other than Anika and Lucious resuming a gross sexual relationship, the rest of the Lyons have been pretty distant towards her. Even Hakeem, who used to be very close with Anika, hasn't really re-embraced his stepmother. 

Which is not to say I don't think Anika doesn't deserve Andre's wrath, because she most certainly does, and then some; but that the situation is a bit more complex than Everybody vs. Andre.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Dee

[GodBless13]

On 5/10/2017 at 11:08 PM, Artsda said:

That opening scenes of the Lyons walking into the meeting was so awesome. Loved it. I agree with Cookie on the family being united being for the best, but she only has now come to this decision because Angelo and her broke up.

They did good at making me think it was Andre, especially with him going after Anika then to have it be the Dubois's all along. 

I feel like the Nia Long plot is failing, whether they're cutting scenes or what I think the behind the scenes stuff has affected how this story is playing out.

YES!!! I loved the opening scene too. The way everyone was dressed, the way they walked even the music was all on point. I agree that Cookie is right...the dynamic works best when the family is united. Yeah, it took for Cookie and Angelo to break up for this to be understood.

Yeah it looked as if the fingers were pointed at Andre....that scene with Andre and Anika was crazy.

As for the rumors of Nia Long behind the scenes I don't know if that's true...they did film her towards the end with Cookie. Then again I haven't been following any articles of what has been going on behind the scenes...so I don't know..this could all be true.

[Happytobehere]

On 5/13/2017 at 0:39 PM, Chairperson Meow said:

I wonder if the rumored Taraji and Nia Long feud is making the Guilliana story weird.  I can't see her as an actual Luscious love interest.  This is a role imo for Janet Jackson.  I mean, at her best Janet Jackson.  She's one I can see pulling this off and being able to do music scenes.  Which, we all know is what Lucious is drawn to.  Also, if I'm dream casting, I want to see Viola Davis go head to head in a story with Taraji.  

Rumors aside, I said it when Nia first came on and it becomes more apparent with each appearance-- Nia Long simply can't act.  Nia is fine when she stays in her lane, but anything that requires her to move beyond that doesn't work. She isn't conveying what the role is supposed to be based on everybody's comments about the Guilliana character.  

[wanderingstar]

Lucious: Am I a good father?

Leah: You're not even a good person.

Lucious: True.

This SHOW!

Quote

The scene with the New Money Lyons strutting in to meet the Old Money Dubois family is/was ICONIC.

Agreed. I feel like the Lyons finally have a worthy adversary in the Dubois.

Lots of violence in this episodes (Andre attacking Anika, Cookie slapping Nessa, and of course Cookie having Shine & his goons rough up Angela). It was jarring and pretty disturbing.

I agree that the Giuliana plot has played out inconsistently. Sometimes it's a big part of the story, at other times, it's just alluded to. It all feels disjointed. But hopefully, they can wrap it up well at the end of the season.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Gillian Rosh

[phoenics]

3 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

Rumors aside, I said it when Nia first came on and it becomes more apparent with each appearance-- Nia Long simply can't act.  Nia is fine when she stays in her lane, but anything that requires her to move beyond that doesn't work. She isn't conveying what the role is supposed to be based on everybody's comments about the Guilliana character.  

I still haven't figured out what the Guilliana character is supposed to be.  My guess is conniving and that she came to town with a motive that went beyond Andre and Lucious - almost like she has something against Cookie too - before she even met her.  Remember when she showed up and was at the salon Cookie goes to and Cookie couldn't get her hair done (and she had an appointment too) for that thing with Angelo?

Giulliana has targeted Cookie some way and is out to get Lucious and harm Cookie.  I know it.  Cookie suspects it too which is why she's so crazed about her right now.  This is very different than Anika.

Cookie still doesn't remember where she first saw Giulliana does she?  She keeps saying she knows her from somewhere, but she still hasn't remembered the hair salon - but now I'm almost wondering if there is another connection somewhere that we're missing.

Also - I think Nia's been doing fine as a conniving bitch out to get with Lucious and do Cookie harm for some reason.  The only thing that doesn't make sense was how scared she was when she shot her husband.  That doesn't track very well with what we've seen of her.

She's extremely manipulative and scheming - that's coming through loud and clear.

[Dee]

16 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Lots of violence in this episodes (Andre attacking Anika, Cookie slapping Nessa, and of course Cookie having Shine & his goons rough up Angela). It was jarring and pretty disturbing.

I actually enjoyed the violence, because it served a purpose. It wasn't violence just for the sake of violence.

Andre Vs. Anika and Nessa's growing hubris have been long simmering plot threads, and Angelo catching a well deserved beat down amplified his emotional betrayal at Diana's final reveal.

Another subtle thing I love about Season Three, has been the flawless musical cues. From Isaac Hayes & Al Green underscoring Andre & Shyne's Laundromat scenes, to the Lyons striding to the Dramatics, the back half of Season Three has felt like a huge Blaxploitation tribute. In a good way.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Dee

[thuganomics85]

You know, I really wouldn't be against every Empire episode begin with a slo-mo Lyons power walk.  That entrance was epic!  The entire boardroom between them and the DuBois was fantastic.  I like how it really shows the classism, and how even though both of these families are rich as hell, it is obvious that the DuBois consider themselves better and look down on the Lyons, and while the Lyons hold firm, they still seem a tiny, tiny bit intimidated with the power the DuBois have.  I think it plays into the old saying of the differences between being "rich" and being "wealthy."  Because while the Lyons are truly the powerhouse of the music industry, the influence the DuBois seem to have from everything in politics, media, and general high society, is intimating.  They are easily some of the best antagonists this show has had.

That said, I honestly thought they would end up being innocent in Bella being taken, so that ending was a surprise.  At least I was right about Angelo being innocent in it, but it seems like he's willing to go with it now after that beatdown.  I do admit that I laughed after he did his "You won't get away with this!" threat to Cookie, and she left him to Shyne and his men, and you could hear Angelo saying "Wait, I was just kidding!"  You are so not cut out for this, buddy.  Diana though, is scaring the crap out of me.  Phylicia Rashad is a powerhouse and I hope she manages to pull of a Guest Nod for the Emmys.  While I hope Anika and the rest get Bella back, I certainly hope Diana sticks around.

Andre is starting to let his hatred of Lucious make him even more unstable.  No one seemed to safe, although I still like how Cookie can knock him down a peg or two.  But his big scene with Anika was intense!  And I'm usually good with separating actors from the characters, but knowing that Trai and Grace Byers are married in real life, really made that scene a sight to behold.  The life of an actor, huh?

Leave it to Hakeem to use his stream to help get his fans involved in the disputes.

Hey, at least Lucious and Jamal are not only being civil with each other, but even getting along.  Hell, Lucious even agreed to back Jamal!  What is the world coming too?!!

What was going on with Grandma Leah rubbing that baby cream on her?

Considering how temperamental the Lyons can be to people who even aren't the real issues, but just the messengers, I continue to be impressed over how Thirsty can deliver bad news, and not have anyone chew his head completely off.

The Vegas/Giuliana plot is probably the weakest one, although it would make sense if the rumors are true that Taraji P. Henson and Nia Long don't get along, but I get the sense that it would have flowed better if we saw more face-offs and scenes between Cookie and Giuliana.

Excellent episode!

[Margohill]

On 5/11/2017 at 0:13 AM, journalism16 said:

I loved this episode, now all I'm waiting for is Bella to be back with her family. I am really not surprised that the Dubois family had something to do with this.

I will not be surprised if baby Bella is not back by the end of this season. It's a powerful story-line to hold on to, because I would really like to see how Diana can mange to hide this baby for so long in the same town without anyone finding out. It will be nice to see Hakeem get his baby back though. It's nail-biting to watch.

I was shocked that Diana took the baby TBH. I was highly suspicious of Andre but when they couldn't trace the baby in the system, I knew it had to be more complex and Diana has all the connections in the system. But why would she choose to take the baby? I thought maybe they would give the Lyons a hard time by interfering with their businesses but this is way out of line. 

On 5/11/2017 at 10:13 AM, Biggie B said:

Lucious, to his mother: "Am I a good father?"

Leah, in response: "You're not even a good person."

Lucious: "True."

Leah doesn't get that much to say in this show, but when she does speak, it's priceless.

Great answer from mama Lyon. Lucious has never been a good father. I'm glad he knows that himself. Maybe we'll start seeing some changes.

On 5/14/2017 at 8:05 PM, phoenics said:

I still haven't figured out what the Guilliana character is supposed to be.  My guess is conniving and that she came to town with a motive that went beyond Andre and Lucious - almost like she has something against Cookie too

I thought she would turn out to be some stripper/singer from Las Vegas back in the day when Lucious met her and was just some old fling who had come back to give Lucious a hard time. I was surprised that she had actually scammed Lucious out of millions of dollars. Since then I just haven't been able to figure out how her plotline would go. She killed her husband for Lucious? Why? Her storyline is just not making any sense to me. I would like to know how Cookie knew her. That might be the clue but so far, I'm just not feeling Giulliana on this show. 

This episode has brought out a lot of fire in the fans. This is what fans have been longing for. Great episode. Can't wait for Wednesday to roll around.  

[phoenics]

Is Wednesday the season finale?

[Margohill]

5 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Is Wednesday the season finale?

It's part I of the finale as I understand. There are 2 more episodes left.

[Dee]

37 minutes ago, Margohill said:

She killed her husband for Lucious? Why?

She didn't kill Rafael for Lucious.

She killed him because it was an opportune moment for her to escape an abusive marriage (thus allowing her to wheel & deal on her own).

She only told Lucious she killed Rafael for him because she felt it would make her appear "noble," to Lucious, given their acrimonious history.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Dee

[Margohill]

6 minutes ago, Dee said:

She only told Lucious she killed Rafael for him because she felt would make her look "noble," to Lucious, given their acrimonious history.

Well, that would make sense, but knowing Lucious, she is way in over her head. You don't scam Lucious out of $10 million and expect him to be your friend. I hope Cookie puts her where she belongs.

[darkestboy]

Wow, that was a good one, wasn't it?

Diana is one cold bitch snatching poor Bella like that after the 'sympathy' she also gave to Anika.

Did not feel bad for Angelo getting his ass tortured either but did feel bad for Anika, even when Andre attacked her though.

The Lucious/Jamal song thing was a good subplot, especially with Leah's commentary added into the mix.

Nessa deserved that slap and Cookie certainly didn't hold back with it either. Andre was looking more and more unhinged though, 7/10

[Chairperson Meow]

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Happytobehere said:

Rumors aside, I said it when Nia first came on and it becomes more apparent with each appearance-- Nia Long simply can't act.  Nia is fine when she stays in her lane, but anything that requires her to move beyond that doesn't work. She isn't conveying what the role is supposed to be based on everybody's comments about the Guilliana character.  

Yeah.  Nia Long does well in more romcom type roles where she's "the girlfriend", like Fresh Prince.  (Tbh even there I was glad when Will dumped her character)  She has had to be carried in a scene, but this is not the show nor is that the character for that level of ability.  I actually thought the Guilliana story was going to be Luscious divorced Cookie years ago to be with her, but she swindled him and dumped him.  Maybe Cookie found out somehow, like tv magic or something but couldn't quite place her two decades later.  Then there would be Cookie going bat wielding ballistic.  Also, maybe in a weird way, Andre would twist it that by making a business deal, he was helping his mom.  But alas, it seems like just some random road block to Luscious and Cookie part 95.  

[LaChavalina]

Yeah, I haven't been feeling Giuliana, either. I guess this was actually the previous episode, but the flashback scenes where she looked, um, absolutely not younger were kind of silly. And it's predictable that Luscious will throw her over in the end.

Trai Byers is running away with this season, though.

[Dee]

4 minutes ago, LaChavalina said:

Trai Byers is running away with this season, though.

Right?! Season One was Jamal's Season, Season Two was Hakeem's Season & Season Three is all Andre.

[jhlipton]

On 5/13/2017 at 0:39 PM, Chairperson Meow said:

I wonder if the rumored Taraji and Nia Long feud is making the Guilliana story weird.  I

I never believe any of these stories.  It's always about a woman (never a man) who's "being a diva" and "everyone hates" and blah blah blah misogyny. 

ETA:
These are the exact same "sources" that said that Taraji was "difficult to work with" and that "Cookie would be gone" at the start of the season.  They were lying then -- they are lying now.

On 5/16/2017 at 6:10 PM, Chairperson Meow said:

Nia Long does well in more romcom type roles where she's "the girlfriend", like Fresh Prince.    She has had to be carried in a scene, but this is not the show nor is that the character for that level of ability. 

I haven't seen Ms Long in much, but this I might be able to get behind. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by jhlipton