S05.E19: Dangerous Liaisons

[Tara Ariano]

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Oliver, Team Arrow, ARGUS and the SCPD kick off a citywide manhunt for Adrian Chase. Meanwhile, Helix tells Felicity they have a way to find Chase, but they will need something big and illegal from her in return.

[catrox14]

So I guess this means Chase is allied with James? Twins?

[BkWurm1]

I feel like I need to watch that again. I'm so conflicted.  

Someone remind me, are Lyla and Diggle also supposed to work on their issues in 520?  I think I'm more worried about them than anyone.  

[Morrigan2575]

Very good episode.

Loved the Olicity scenes, very powerful and well acted.

Loved the Dig/Lyla scenes it's so funny how they're a reverse of Olicity

Hate, hate, hate Curtis. He really need to STFU!

I really like Rene and I thought this was some of his best stuff. Rick G works really well with Paul B. However their scenes really dragged the pace down. 

I was digging Dinah when she gave Curtis the "WTF? Face" during the Arcade scene. However, her last fight scene with the pose, smirk and dumb ass "woman" line just annoyed me.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

Just now, catrox14 said:

So I guess this means Chase is allied with James? Twins?

Or Helix was worried enough about Team Arrow that they wanted to knock them out of the game while he was running away.  

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

I feel like I need to watch that again. I'm so conflicted.  

Someone remind me, are Lyla and Diggle also supposed to work on their issues in 520?  I think I'm more worried about them than anyone.  

Spoiler

Yes

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

Or Helix was worried enough about Team Arrow that they wanted to knock them out of the game while he was running away.  

Exactly

[catrox14]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

Or Helix was worried enough about Team Arrow that they wanted to knock them out of the game while he was running away.  

Ahh. That makes sense

[unlfan03]

So this is the episode where everything blows up, the bunker, the Diggles, Felicity and Helix's relationship. I am betting that Alena and James are co-founders of Helix because there is a lot of I care about this person who I've slept with vibe from her.

[Angel12d]

I really enjoyed the episode. First one I've watched live in months, LOL.

Lots of great character conflict between Olicity, Dyla, OTA, Lyla/Felicity. 

Felicity being so trusting of Alena and Helix was super annoying though. The trust wasn't earned. 

The Rene/Quentin subplot was nice but it felt out of place in the episode and slowed everything down.

How much better is this show without flashbacks though?

[calliope1975]

I thought it was pretty great. It's just crazy how much better this show is when OTA is allowed to interact, even if it's in anger or they're on the outs. 

I hope and don't think Helix is involved with Chase. As said above, I think this was to remove Team Arrow as an immediate threat since they were working with ARGUS. I also want KR and Helix to return. I like that dynamic, and they can provide a foil that's Felicity specific.  

[Soulfire]

Really appreciated that this episode didn't have flashbacks. 

(GIFs coming soon.)

[Angel12d]

10 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I hope and don't think Helix is involved with Chase. 

If this is the case (and I think you're right), what exactly was Chase's plan for Felicity? He just kind of skipped over her importance to Oliver, IMO, which I find weird. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Angel12d

[benteen]

I thought it was alright.  I think not having the flashbacks definitely helped.  I don't think Felicity had any grounds to be like that at the end with Oliver and he needed to stick up for himself there.  Kind of glad both Felicity and Lyra did tell Oliver and John to **** off because they didn't want them to go dark.  I think Helix will be an interesting new threat going forward.  Lance and Rene are good together.

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Hate, hate, hate Curtis. He really need to STFU!

So much this.  Annoying and unprofessional every time he opens his mouth.

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Felicity being so trusting of Alena and Helix was super annoying though. The trust wasn't earned. 

Agreed.

[thuganomics85]

So, Team Arrow takes on their biggest threat yet....... Felicity?

Still trying to fully process everything.  I kind of see almost everyone's side here.  I can see why Felicity thinks the ends justify the means when it comes to Chase, and considering some of the stuff Oliver has done, why she is mad he didn't back her.  At the same time, there hasn't been enough development to really buy why she would trust Helix that much, and, in the end, they seem to apparently stab her and Team Arrow in the back after-all.  So, no one seems to have won here.  Except Helix.  And Chase, even if he had nothing to do with it.

Meanwhile, Lyla does seem to be moving the line with every move she makes and is becoming more and more like Amanda Waller, but considering some of the acts Diggle has done, it seems be weird watching him get all high and mighty.  And, really, if he's that upset over Argus not following "due process", he would be pissed as hell about what is going on over at S.T.A.R. Labs!

Seriously, shut the fuck up, Curtis!  I'm am officially over you, now.

Quentin helps push Rene into getting back into his daughter's life.  Yawn... still find him dull.  But since the actor is upgraded to regular status next season, I guess we'll be getting plenty of him calling Quentin "hoss" for the unforseen future (at least he's no longer calling Felicity "Blondie.")  Also, I get they kept focusing on Quentin's picture with Laurel who highlight his loss, but I just kept wondering why he didn't seem to have any pictures of Sara.

Gold star to the actors though.  Stephen Amell, David Ramsey, Emily Bett Rickhards, and Aubrey Marie Anderson were all pretty damn great here.

Talk about ending the episode with bang! (yes, I'll show myself out.)

[Soulfire]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(GIFs borrowed from internet.)

Edited April 27, 2017 by Soulfire

[Mrs. de Winter]

I was worried given someone new was writing the episode but perhaps she went back and watched a few older episodes because this made a good use of the relationships and history.  Two things that have been sorely lacking this season. 

Felicity and Oliver's talk at the loft where she asked him to let her help carry his burden struck me as her asking Oliver to include her in the way he didn't with the kid.  So, I get her anger at the end and her call back to the lie in that moment. 

I am confused as to who blew the bunker.  If it was Helix - why not just blow the bunker - why do the fake Chase is here thing?  I would like it better if it was Chase - but I hope they clarify one way or the other. 

I did think the Lyla and Digg stuff seemed off.  Given everything the show has shown and told us about Argus, the idea that Lyla is about to cross a line is ludicrous. I am pretty sure you can't be in Argus without a willingness to cross lines.   I get Digg turning something of a blind eye but Oliver damn well knows better.  He and Lyla even had a conversation about it in a previous episode when they talked about their willingness to do whatever it takes (in contrast to Digg and Felicity).  Felicity and Lyla's decisions here can certainly be questioned - but pretending this is a massive shift in their actions is just weird and undercuts the tension for me.  

The nickname thing makes me dislike Wild Dog.   It is disrespectful and rude - particularly when you have been asked not to do it.  Having a kid do it does not change that.  I does make me hope he and his spawn go away. 

I am looking forward to next week - not a sentence I have typed this season about Arrow.  Let's hope it is the start of a trend. 

[statsgirl]

I didn't realize that there were no flashbacks until I came here and read it.  All I was aware of was that it was a really good, fast-paced (except for Rene's plot) episode.  It really is time to put the flashbacks to rest.

I guess having Rene call all the men 'Hoss' is the price I have to pay for not having him call Felicity Blondie any more.  Quentin saying that he would do anything to be able to see his daughter again is soooo  signalling that he'll see the Black Siren in the future.

I'll probably things of more things later but the characterization of Oliver, Felicity, Diggle and Lyla was spot on.  I like how concerned Felicity was that Alena had killed that guy and that the second ARGUS agent shouldn't be hurt.  I loved the Diggle/Lyla dilemma -- this is how you deal with the big relationship problems.

Lyla:  No, it's not. But even if it were... (I get such a thrill when someone on TV uses correct grammar )

I still want to understand why Cayden James is more dangerous than a serial killer on the loose.

[TwistedandBored]

I really enjoyed this episode. I really enjoyed all the character interactions between Olicity/OTA/Dyla/ and even the other three/Lance. 

I didn't even realize this episode didn't have a flashback scenes until I came here. I mean that shows how much I don't care about them. 

Also, I was sort of confused on if they actually found Chase's location or that was Helix buying time before causing the explosion? This part was a bit confusing cause everything happened at once. 

[Angel12d]

That Olicity scene. It went a different direction than I expected! I know Diggle mentioned that mourning does things to people (which I assume was meant to be about the slice of stale Mayo Bread) but the O/F scene felt like it was more about Oliver? IDK. She was willing to go dark and sacrifice her soul to carry Oliver's burdens. I didn't get any hint that it was about Mayo at all. 

I am pleased. Haha.

[tricknasty]

So everyone is wearing masks for concealment except Felicity and Helix girl. So not wearing their glasses = mask? What is this Superman/Supergirl?

ETA: So does Mr. Terrific have to braid his hair before every fight? Seems time consuming. And is he wearing a black mask or is that blackface? If it's the latter that might be racist

Edited April 27, 2017 by tricknasty

[statsgirl]

6 minutes ago, tricknasty said:

So everyone is wearing masks for concealment except Felicity and Helix girl. So not wearing their glasses = mask? What is this Superman/Supergirl?

It works for Supergirl!

Cayden James being 20x worse than Edward Snowden does not justify for me what ARGUS was doing to him.

42 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

If this is the case (and I think you're right), what exactly was Chase's plan for Felicity? He just kind of skipped over her importance to Oliver, IMO, which I find weird. 

I think they're saving that for the big finale.  Thea and Felicity are the most important people to Oliver, so he's probably saving the best for last.

[BkWurm1]

Ok so on my second time watching, I caught that the guy that Alena killed actually had no connection to Chase that Felicity could find.  So was the whole point of finding him just so Helix could get the Argus key?  Does that mean that she was set up from the start?  Could we find out that Helix might have tipped off Chase?  Or was Chase getting away all just a coincidence?  I'm leaning toward it just a coincidence unless we hear something different later.  

So at first Oliver says that letting James free to catch Chase MIGHT be crossing the line.  He even later suggest maybe Felicity IS right.  I really wish the show had spent more time explaining WHY James and Helix are so much more dangerous than Chase.  Right now I feel like it’s all a “because I said so” a kind of thing.  Lyla says James is a loose nuke but why, why, why!!! And what specific bad thing has Helix done beyond what it just did in this episode??

20X more dangerous than Snowden. Has Snowden been a big danger??  How dangerous is that really? Honestly a bit confused. 

I kind of think the better plan would have been for Arrow to help Helix but then snatch James back up again.  Of course it seems that Alena’s plan was always to use Felicity to get James and then make is so Arrow couldn’t go after them. I wish I knew more at what point Alena decided to double cross her.   

I'm also a tiny bit puzzled why she decided Felicity had to help past the point of getting the keys.  Why couldn’t Alena have used the weaponized tablet herself? Or get one of the other hackers more devoted to Helix to help.  Was it just to get her to take the flash drive back to the lair and blow it up?**  And since they knew that Felicity had the chip in her spine, does that  mean that they deliberately paralyzed her again?  I mean, that’s just cold. 

**Actually, just hit that part on my rewatch.  Alena called it “some on the fly coding by James” so that means that maybe at least Alena didn’t deliberately betray her like that. She might have genuinely thought James was giving her a way to track Chase.  (Or maybe not.  She's very grey still)

Loved the “conversation” at the end in the bunker between Oliver and Diggle.  Just a glance, a nod and they both said volumes before Diggle went home. Curtis on the other hand is really getting on my nerves. 

REALLY curious what Oliver will say to come back to Felicity’s claim that he didn’t trust her and that’s why he didn’t back her play.  Oliver already has said he was worried.  So does that mean that it wasn’t the plan he was so much against but Felicity’s involvement or the lines she had to cross to make it so?  Is this all about him being afraid she could turn into him?  A monster? 

Next week can’t get here soon enough. 

[Angel12d]

Is it possible that Chase is linked to Helix but only in so far as he paid them to blow up Felicity's computers? She plugged in that chip or whatever that Alena left behind. It then located Chase to the bunker before blowing everything up. 

[KenyaJ]

56 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I thought it was pretty great. It's just crazy how much better this show is when OTA is allowed to interact, even if it's in anger or they're on the outs.

Sooooo much better. And although I wouldn't want it all the time, I like when they're butting heads for reasons that make sense and feel true to character. If the writers had to drive a wedge between Oliver and Felicity last year, I wish they'd done it this way, instead of with BMD.

Meanwhile, how do you solve a problem like Curtis? I liked him so much when he was first introduced. But now the writers are trying so hard to make him quippy and funny and it's just not working. They're trying too hard, and it just makes him seem like an inept fool who can't read social cues and can't take anything seriously. I don't understand why they think this is enjoyable.

[way2interested]

Just now, Angel12d said:

Is it possible that Chase is linked to Helix but only in so far as he paid them to blow up Felicity's computers? She plugged in that chip or whatever that Alena left behind. It then located Chase to the bunker before blowing everything up. 

Either that, or I think it might just be as simple as the code never tracked Chase and just tracked the "here" to get the location to blow up.

[apinknightmare]

Just now, way2interested said:

Either that, or I think it might just be as simple as the code never tracked Chase and just tracked the "here" to get the location to blow up.

Yeah, I think that's what it was - to make sure Felicity couldn't ever come after them.

[BkWurm1]

Just now, way2interested said:

Either that, or I think it might just be as simple as the code never tracked Chase and just tracked the "here" to get the location to blow up.

I feel confident the only thing the flash drive did was fake tracking Chase while it did what it needed to do to send the EMP explosion.  

[Angel12d]

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Either that, or I think it might just be as simple as the code never tracked Chase and just tracked the "here" to get the location to blow up.

Yeah, you're probably right!

[UNOSEZ]

While I thought Felicity et al. Were in the wrong and I don’t trust helix… Olly and Diggle seemed a little too self righteous this episode even tho they were right and I’m sure this cayden James guy is probably gonna be an issue… Also maybe this is how they get rid of lyla so next season diggle and Dinah can hook up… Cuz they def had some sparks earler in the season

[catrox14]

I'm more convinced Chase is involved with the attack on the bunker. I think the use of the EMP was purposeful to harm Felicity. And Oliver being so convinced this wasn't Chase's MO goes along with the dumb!Oliver previous to Prometheus fucking with him. IMO, that would be a very Chase personal attack to make it so she can't walk again.

[statsgirl]

9 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Either that, or I think it might just be as simple as the code never tracked Chase and just tracked the "here" to get the location to blow up.

Why fake track him with visuals then?  Why not just plan to blow up after 10 seconds?

Felicity plugged in the (impossible) biometic tracker.  It tracked Chase to the bunker and then it blew up.  The Occam's razor explanation is that Chase really was hiding out there and was the one to blow them up.  I'm also speculating that they're going to want to  use Helix next season (not showing the face of the guy they got out) and why limit themselves by tying him to Chase who is probably going to be dead by the end of the season?

One of the things I like about this show is that while Oliver and Diggle try to damsel Felicity and Lyla in terms of moral decisions, Lyla and Felicity don't let them get away with it, unlike The Flash.

Dinah saying "Don't grab a woman unless you have permission" was a nice callback to Sara's initial appearance of "No woman should have to suffer at the hands of a man".

 LOVE Felicity telling Oliver that she's always backed him even when she didn't agree and  he isn't willing to do the same for her.

36 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I just kept wondering why he didn't seem to have any pictures of Sara.

Sara isn't dead, just time traveling.

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Ok so on my second time watching, I caught that the guy that Alena killed actually had no connection to Chase that Felicity could find.  So was the whole point of finding him just so Helix could get the Argus key?  Does that mean that she was set up from the start?  Could we find out that Helix might have tipped off Chase?  Or was Chase getting away all just a coincidence?  I'm leaning toward it just a coincidence unless we hear something different later.  

So at first Oliver says that letting James free to catch Chase MIGHT be crossing the line.  He even later suggest maybe Felicity IS right.  I really wish the show had spent more time explaining WHY James and Helix are so much more dangerous than Chase.  Right now I feel like it’s all a “because I said so” a kind of thing.  Lyla says James is a loose nuke but why, why, why!!! And what specific bad thing has Helix done beyond what it just did in this episode??

20X more dangerous than Snowden. Has Snowden been a big danger??  How dangerous is that really? Honestly a bit confused.

Alena didn't mean to kill the guy, just knock him out so she could get the ARGUS key.  As she said, she'd never done that before.

I liked how they ended the Helix connection for the moment.  (As I said, I think they're wanting to use them next season or later.)  They did the job, making Felicity go dark enough to understand Oliver, but not so dark that she can't be redeemed in the next 4 episodes.

The US government thinks Snowden and Chelsea Manning are dangerous but a lot of people think they're heroes who exposed the dirty dealings of the government.  I think Julian Assange is much more dangerous because he's easily manipulated and seems amoral.

Cayden James being dangerous seems to be about the level of the gun debate of earlier this season.

[Trisha]

19 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Meanwhile, how do you solve a problem like Curtis? I liked him so much when he was first introduced. But now the writers are trying so hard to make him quippy and funny and it's just not working.

This episode made it clear they have taken that character way too far. He's a caricature now. It's one thing to have awkward quips like Felicity but to go on extended rants when they're in the middle of a mission, or crack jokes when they're staring at a dead body? He was insufferable tonight. 

[Lantern7]

Did anybody come off well this week? Maybe Diggle, because he had the higher ground. And Curtis did install fear in a few mooks with his T-Spheres. But then he had to talk. Did Dinah screw up at any point?

I feel for Rene, but I still consider him to be the show's buttmonkey. Really hoping Quentin doesn't unofficially adopt him because he'd want a grandkid. Laurel's gone, and if Sara had a kid, it might have died before Quentin was born.

Seriously, this episode was a bit of a clusterfuck. I imagine Chase in full Prometheus gear, wondering why he even bothers to destroy Oliver when his friends are doing a swell job.

ETA: From the AVClub review: "I never, ever, ever want Quentin Lance to die. Ever. But if he does, I demand his eulogy begin with, 'Quentin Lance, or Hoss as he liked to be called...'" That made me laugh harder than I should have.

[Hiveminder]

I wouldn't be surprised if the 'biometric tracker' wasn't tracking anything except the bunker's location so Helix could send one of those through the computer bombs all shows and movies with hacking seem to think are real. (Seriously, how does a thumb drive make an explosion like that?) The entire idea of being able to track a specific heartbeat(using what data exactly? Does it have access to that totally real database of people's heart beats I've heard so much about?) anywhere in the world is ridiculous, and I'm surprised Felicity just bought it. Maybe that's why Oliver was worried about her. He was concerned her IQ was dropping. 

[SleepDeprived]

11 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Also maybe this is how they get rid of lyla so next season diggle and Dinah can hook up… Cuz they def had some sparks earler in the season

Diggle and Lyla aren't breaking up, okay?! Je refuse! Go sit in a corner and think about what you've just said!

I haven't seen the episode yet but everything I'm reading, so far, sure has me excited. I'm glad this episode sounds like it was a great one.

[way2interested]

Just now, statsgirl said:

Why fake track him with visuals then?  Why not just plan to blow up after 10 seconds?

Kind of like @Hiveminder said above, it wasn't fake tracking Chase, it was literally tracking Felicity to find out where to send the emp, which could take the same amount of time. Thereby not being connected to Chase at all.

[Angel12d]

I hope they have Dinah evolve beyond the generic "badass" pose and one liners. That moment was a bit awkward for me.

[unlfan03]

26 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

20X more dangerous than Snowden. Has Snowden been a big danger??  How dangerous is that really? Honestly a bit confused. 

 

keep in mind this is the show that used bullet point talking points to "discuss" gun violence. Snowden is just a name they figured could be easily identified by the majority of the audience by name.

As for tracking by heartbeat, unless Chase has some weird heartbeat that taps out chopsticks or shave and a hair cut there is no way Felicity would think something like that would  work. Now the Dark Knight video board would have been more believable. which makes me wonder, if Helix had their magic video board that worked just a few weeks ago why won't it work now unless Chase was told to stay away from every electronic device with a video recording device. I think that Helix and Chase are connected someway.

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the 'biometric tracker' wasn't tracking anything except the bunker's location so Helix could send one of those through the computer bombs all shows and movies with hacking seem to think are real. (Seriously, how does a thumb drive make an explosion like that?)

This isn't that crazy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet-security/11932793/Killer-USB-stick-destroys-your-computer-in-seconds.html

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In the short video posted by the hackers, the USB is shown in action - all it takes is plugging it into the hacker's IBM laptop, and it completely kills the machine within seconds.

After the laptop turns off, the demonstrator in the video tries repeatedly to turn it back on but it seems that the USB has blown its circuitry in the process.

 

Quote

The USB destroys laptops by sending 220 volts through the signal lines of the USB interface, rendering anything it is plugging into useless.

So here for drama  it's amped up exponentially for the sake of entertainment and boom. I'm okay with it personally.

[insomniadreams88]

While I know the show wanted us on Team Arrow and Team ARGUS and not Team Felicity and Team Helix, I can see it from both sides, and I think that it didn't help that they were being vague about what Helix's guy did to earn him a spot on a black site. I gather that it's that he could have compromised ARGUS' agents? Okay, but it still seems a bit extreme - especially to have him locked up like he was in a storage container. 

I have no idea why Felicity trusted Helix and Alena so much, but maybe it's because she wanted to be able to trust them? She felt like the team wasn't getting the job done, and here's this group of people telling her they can and here's Alena telling her about a program that can find Chase after she just saw that the team and ARGUS came up empty?

Diggle bringing up grief just makes me feel like the show is telling us - and maybe even Felicity at times since his death - that she should be grieving Billy even though nothing is showing us that she is/that that's why she's with Helix. She hasn't brought him up, and nowhere in Oliver and Felicity's conversation did it seem like he was even a distant factor. Also, I wish someone would mention the fact that Felicity first found out about Helix when she was looking to free Diggle from prison. Remember your own show, show. 

While part of me really hates seeing Oliver and Felicity on opposite sides, I loved their scenes in tonight's episode, though I do think that Oliver's "don't count on it" was a bit much. And that final conversation was so clearly about setting up a future conversation that they had to be interrupted like they were.

I do wonder if the plan all along was to track Felicity's heartbeat since I'm not quite sure how they'd be able to track Chase's unless they had captured it before? (Not quite sure how that was supposed to work though, to be honest.) 

I'm worried about Diggle and Lyla's relationship, only because they seemed poised to have a conversation that they both know isn't going to end well with their last scene.

As for the newbies, the show is using Dinah well, Curtis needs to take a break and his mask was really annoying in this episode for some reason, and I have to wonder if we missed the part where Rene was benched after the opening scene because it seems like they could have used all hands on deck for the ARGUS/Helix mission. 

However, I do think that the Lance and Rene scenes have been pretty decent this season, but the show really wanted to hit us over the head with how obvious it was that these two can bond over their families/drinking/etc. in this episode. I also wish that we'd gotten Lance with the others instead of just with Rene. 

[Cthulhudrew]

Was Curtis always this annoying, or did they really ramp it up this episode?

[SmallScreenDiva]

Helix helped Felicity get the information to clear Digg. Helix also got her the way to ID Chase. Those are two huge things. So I can buy Felicity trusting them. She should have been more careful but they had pie together!

6 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Was Curtis always this annoying, or did they really ramp it up this episode?

Super-duper ramped up. Like I wanted to use his balls to gag him.

[SmallScreenDiva]

While watching the scene with the dead ARGUS guy I kept thinking how Tinah didn't need to be there. That scene could have been Lyla, Digg and Oliver and would have been exactly the same. Would have even kickstarted the "fight" between Digg and Lyla faster if Digg was the one to object to ARGUS hiding evidence.

(Side note: is anyone else bothered by the chain on Tinah's jeans? Like, what is it supposed to be holding? Her tiny wallet? Her keys? It's just another item that screams "look at me, I'm tough!" And yeah, that pose after the fight was laughable). 

Take away Tinah, WD and Curtis in this ep and nothing changes. It would have been tighter and I wouldn't have screamed "shut up" every time Curtis opened his mouth.

Edited April 27, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[Hiveminder]

21 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 

I do wonder if the plan all along was to track Felicity's heartbeat since I'm not quite sure how they'd be able to track Chase's unless they had captured it before? (Not quite sure how that was supposed to work though, to be honest.) 

They didn't track anyone's heartbeat because you can't track heartbeats.  It's a preposterous idea, and I simply refuse to believe it.   I'm incredibly insulted on Felicity's behalf that the writers would make her actually believe that. It's dumb, and it makes her dumb and desperate. In fact, I don't believe that in character Felicity would fall for that anymore than I believe that in character Oliver would have kept William a secret from Felicity even after Malcolm knew about him. 

This fucking show. 

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

Felicity and Oliver's talk at the loft where she asked him to let her help carry his burden struck me as her asking Oliver to include her in the way he didn't with the kid.  So, I get her anger at the end and her call back to the lie in that moment. 

I like this observation.  I hope the point comes back up in next week's episode.  

Quote

However, I do think that the Lance and Rene scenes have been pretty decent this season, but the show really wanted to hit us over the head with how obvious it was that these two can bond over their families/drinking/etc. in this episode. I also wish that we'd gotten Lance with the others instead of just with Rene.

 Quentin is about the only character that I can stand Rene with. Lance handles him better. Doesn't put up with his crap. This episode seemed the wrong time to pull Rene out of the field so he could meet his kid but oh well.   I still think he's a pretty awful person. I’m happy to have judged Rene as hard as I did in the gun control episode.  Never even tried to see her.  Even once he stopped drinking. Ass.  

 

42 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Did anybody come off well this week? Maybe Diggle, because he had the higher ground. And Curtis did install fear in a few mooks with his T-Spheres. But then he had to talk. Did Dinah screw up at any point?

I feel for Rene, but I still consider him to be the show's buttmonkey. Really hoping Quentin doesn't unofficially adopt him because he'd want a grandkid. Laurel's gone, and if Sara had a kid, it might have died before Quentin was born.

Seriously, this episode was a bit of a clusterfuck. I imagine Chase in full Prometheus gear, wondering why he even bothers to destroy Oliver when his friends are doing a swell job.

I don't know.  I think Diggle was looking a bit judgmental despite claiming he wasn't judging.  How is keeping a man prisoner worse than just killing him like he did with Andy?  Neither are right but he was pretty quick to say Lyla was turning into someone he didn't know.  She seemed pretty much like herself to me.  

[Delphi]

2 hours ago, Soulfire said:

Really appreciated that this episode didn't have flashbacks. 

(GIFs coming soon.)

Thanks for the gifs and explaining why the episode flowed so well. 

First installment in awhile that I enjoyed.   It touched on olicity,  diglicity,  Lyla was there,  drama. 

 

I wish they had touched on Lance being a father of two girls that had been murdered multiple times a bit more,  but even though they didn't I still get why he did what he did. 

Also, if helix is trying to get Felicity off their back,  I don't think blowing her up is going to be the way out of that.   Good luck, helix.  You're gonna need it. 

[BkWurm1]

6 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

While watching the scene with the dead ARGUS guy I kept thinking how Tinah didn't need to be there. That scene could have been Lyla, Digg and Oliver and would have been exactly the same. Would have even kickstarted the "fight" between Digg and Lyla faster if Digg was the one to object to ARGUS hiding evidence.

(Side note: is anyone else bothered by the chain on Tinah's jeans? Like, what is it supposed to be holding? Her tiny wallet? Her keys? It's just another item that screams "look at me, I'm tough!" And yeah, that pose after the fight was laughable). 

Take away Tinah, WD and Curtis in this ep and nothing changes. It would have been tighter and I wouldn't have screamed "shut up" every time Curtis opened his mouth.

I will say that I took petty pleasure in both Dinah and Curtis being dismissed for the night with thanks from their employer.  Maybe it's not supposed to come across that way, but I sort of love that is how Oliver treats the B team.

3 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

They didn't track anyone's heartbeat because you can't track heartbeats.  It's a preposterous idea, and I simply refuse to believe it.   I'm incredibly insulted on Felicity's behalf that the writers would make her actually believe that. It's dumb, and it makes her dumb and desperate. In fact, I don't believe that in character Felicity would fall for that anymore than I believe that in character Oliver would have kept William a secret from Felicity even after Malcolm knew about him. 

This fucking show. 

It's a crazy idea in real life, but I'm not positive that Alena wasn't serious about it being  a real thing.  I just don't think that Cayden James shared it with Felicity and instead used her trust in Alena and Helix to sabotage the Arrow Bunker so that they couldn't come after him.  Team Arrow was more a threat than Argus to finding him clearly.  

As for Felicity trusting Helix, what reason did she have for NOT trusting them?  They were pretty open with their quid pro quo and while that isn't the most noble way of handling things, it was pretty straight forward and in the past, they'd always followed through on their promises.  

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, Mrs. de Winter said:

Felicity and Oliver's talk at the loft where she asked him to let her help carry his burden struck me as her asking Oliver to include her in the way he didn't with the kid.  So, I get her anger at the end and her call back to the lie in that moment. 

I was extremely wary coming into this ep about how Wendy and Marc had been framing the conversations with regards to the breakup but if this is how they're doing it, then good. I like it, I buy it. It makes sense. Of course, this is 1 ep. It could totally change next week *rme*

I did appreciate how difficult it was for Oliver to make any argument to Felicity because he doesn't have a leg to stand on. This started in 510 and that continued in this ep. He's appealing to her emotions, instead of trying to argue with logic. 

[apinknightmare]

32 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

She should have been more careful but they had pie together!

Eating pie together makes it a mortal lock.

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

They didn't track anyone's heartbeat because you can't track heartbeats.  It's a preposterous idea, and I simply refuse to believe it.   I'm incredibly insulted on Felicity's behalf that the writers would make her actually believe that. It's dumb, and it makes her dumb and desperate. In fact, I don't believe that in character Felicity would fall for that anymore than I believe that in character Oliver would have kept William a secret from Felicity even after Malcolm knew about him. 

This fucking show. 

 

I thought of it like some kind of fitness tracker that registers a person's heartrate, or medical implants like breast implants  or pace makers that have serial numbers which allow companies to keep track of them.  I figured they had some info on Chase like that which I thought, sure why not, especially in  a show which has had time travel, alien space flights, omni powered spinal implants that allow a person to walk, and nanobots that healed Ray, I didn't see much problem with someone at Helix learning that Chase had some kind of implant they could track. I think they just amped it up to "TRACK HIS HEARTBEAT" for the silly drama but I bought it.