S03.E08: Season 3, Episode 8

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SERIES FINALE!

Quote

In the last-ever episode the truth is finally revealed as detectives Alec Hardy and Ellie Miller finally untangle the web of deceit surrounding the rape of Trish Winterman.

[Piplingmb]

I have just seen the trailer can't wait to find out how it is all going to tie up. Looked like Ellie was upset in it sat on the steps. Will really miss her and Alec they have made the series. 

[staveDarsky]

The other day, BBC America ran a trailer for the 3rd series that has Hardy and Daisy in a scene that we haven't seen. ITV followed that up with a still of the same scene from the finale.

Spoiler

 

I think that may be Tess standing in the background.

Edited April 14, 2017 by staveDarsky
Put photos in spoiler.

[Piplingmb]

He looks upset wonder if she is leaving and why are they by a church?

[spottedreptile]

Looks like they've visited a gravesite to me.

[staveDarsky]

It does look like they're in the churchyard in Broadchurch, but they could also be in a churchyard in Sandbrook, visiting Pippa Gillespie's grave since he so equated Pippa to Daisy. He's not wearing a tie, so I don't think they're at a funeral.

[Piplingmb]

It looks like the vicars church maybe there was a service does look like Tess standing waiting for Daisy as somebody else said.

[spottedreptile]

That would make sense if they are wrapping up the series, Hardy sorting out his family difficulties?

[Desperately Random]

Loved the finale. It was everything I had hoped for and although I am sad to see the series end, it did feel finished. (Although, it would be great if they came back for a fourth season.) Nice twist on the rapist that I never guessed. The writing this season was much better than last season as I can say I enjoyed every episode and I can't say that about season 2. I really felt sorry for the mom as she seemed like a good mother who never saw the trouble her son was getting into being befriended by Leo.  And during his interview when he was explaining why what he did didn't bother him because "it's just sex" was chilling. I liked seeing how all the red herrings ended up making sense when you saw what actually happened that night. Well done showing how all the pieces of the puzzle came together. I will definitely be doing a re-watch now that I have the whole picture.

[Ravenya003]

Last week:

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My shot in the dark is that it's the cabby's son, simply because he's been noticeable, but flying under the radar all this time. He had easy access to all the material, a shitty home life (Freudian Excuse) and (if memory serves) is the one spreading the porn around school. He could be a sex addict of some kind.

Called it! Okay, I didn't guess the full context, but that kid definitely caught my attention. It was an ending that fit the general theme of the whole season: not just that rape leaves a deep mental/emotional toll, but that perpetrators have such messed-up ideas about sex and consent due to the rape culture that surrounds them. The chilling thing about Leo's confession was that you could tell on some level that he honestly didn't understand he'd done something wrong. Where were his parents during all this anyway? 

I like that Ellie quickly shot down Hardy's musings on Ed's manpain at having heard the rape and not prevented it (sure it sucks for him, but it's worse for Trish and STILL doesn't give him the right to stalk her) though I call foul at him having withheld that information. He may not have been able to prove it, but it would have put him in the clear to some extent. 

It was odd to see Cath sitting with her husband in the church. Please don't tell me that was a sign they were getting back together.  (Though it probably had more to do with wanting to get the entire cast together for one panning group shot of all their pensive faces). Ditto Ian inviting himself round to Trish's house with Chinese food.

Sad that Mark and Beth decided to part ways, but not surprising. Few marriages survive the death of a child, and (as Beth said) theirs was already on shaky ground. It actually felt like a relief when he left. 

I would have liked a bit more closure on Ellie and Tom, even if it was just Tom apologising for the porn and promising to do better. However, the final scene for Maggie and Paul (who didn't really have much purpose this season except to be sounding boards for other characters) was fitting. I'd watch Maggie's vlog. 

If this is the end for Ellie and Hardy, then it ended on a high note. "Want to get a drink at the pub?" "No, see you tomorrow." HA. That was perfect. 

[madmaverick]

Parts of the finale felt a bit flat to me like when they had to get through all the exposition to get rid of their red herrings and zoom in on the real culprits.  I called that it was the cabbie's son when the cabbie and he exchanged a look and cabbie told him it would be alright when he was arrested by the police.  I felt that a hard hitting scene with the mother of the rapist when she found out all about it was missing from the script.  Cabbie was a creep but guess he still had a spot in his heart for his son.  Leo was every bit as shitty and worse as he seemed to be from the first we were introduced to him.  He was chilling.  Unfortunately I think his delusional justifications and sense of entitlement are common with sexual predators.  Ian is still a creep to me too and I hope Trish is only grudgingly welcoming him to their house for the sake of their daughter and not for more than Chinese.   I would have liked to see Tom apologising to Ellie too, and showing some signs of growth, but at the same time, I didn't really need to see Tom either because he's been so bratty.  Meh on Paul leaving.  He didn't have much of an arc, really.  Go Maggie's vlog!  Meh on Mark leaving too.  Yes, he needs to sort himself out but hope he doesn't forget about his children who are still here and who need him.

Nice to see the show close on a scene with Ellie and Hardy with Ellie in the iconic orange jacket, and the stunning cliffs in the background.  Fine to end the show on this parting note, but I see the potential for more series showcasing this partnership in the future too.  Maybe one off 2 hour movies or 4 episode series, if not an 8 episode series?  Shame if we never saw them and their excellent chemistry again. 

I feel this series started stronger than it ended, but it was still satisfying to watch overall and more interesting than S2. 

[mledawn]

Ugh, so sad to see the end of this show. There's something to be said for the way television is handled in the UK vs America, though - don't run the show into the ground, just tell some quality stories and wrap it up. Not to say I wouldn't absolutely love to see them again, it's just that I can appreciate ending it on a great case. I LOVED when Ellie asked Hardy to the pub, and there was a pause, and I think the writers thought perhaps the viewers would think that it might be a spark and... "No". Hahahaha, that's well written, true-to-character dialogue. Ellie grinning and going home, Hardy being grumpy and going home... I'm going to miss these two.

As for the case, Leo is a sociopath, certainly. He was able to fake feelings in previous interviews, because he had his thoughts together and was able to take the time to craft his emotions. In the final interview, he was just himself. He was emotionless and practical - and honest - with what happened. I did find it odd how forthcoming he was in the end. Sociopath or no, he did know rape is against the law. So did he not see it as rape? I'm going to hunt down some post mortems this morning to see if there is anything with the showrunners about that.

The cabbie's son was just a stupid boy who wanted the approval of an older male. His poor mother, dealing with those two jackasses for so much of her life. It wasn't that she wasn't bright, I think she was just simple - her belief system made things straightforward for her. I was so worried when she called Clive out on the keys, but again her belief system supported her decision to actively hand them over to the officers. In addition to the victims, she has my greatest sympathy.

Speaking of having a strong belief system - Trish had better not let Dirty Ian back into her home on a permanent basis. He cheats on her with his coworker, then spies on her via her computer, then when his partner tires of him, he comes crawling back. I hope their daughter helps bolster Trish to stay independent.

You could see the confusion on Trish's face when she was told a schoolmate of her daughters is her rapist. I'm not sure if she understood at that point how much Leo was involved in the rape (physically knocking her out, planning, etc.) which I think will mess with her mind a bit more. I was pleased the other women were going to be able to have some closure as well, since we all know that's so so rare for rape victims.

Poor Trish's life is a bit of a catastrophe, now. In addition to being a victim of a violent crime (the details of which will be thoroughly revealed by a trial), she has learned (or perhaps she already knew) her boss was stalking her, she's slept with her "best" friend's husband, and her (ex-ish?) husband has been violating her privacy for a while.

The ending for the Lattimers was satisfying. I'm glad Mark didn't kill himself, but I have little sympathy for his revisionist history. Does he forget he was thisclose to leaving Beth for the bar owner (apologies, I've forgotten her name) the night Danny was killed? He's looking back on their past with rose-coloured glasses. I'm sorry it's hard for you to see your family moving on without you, but if Dan hadn't died, they'd have been doing that anyway BECAUSE OF YOU, MARK. Andrew Buchan did a great job throughout the series, he was fantastic.

I've only watched the finale once, and it was late after my Leafs won in overtime, so I will rewatch to see what my muddy brain may have missed.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved that we got to see both Hardy and Miller express shocked indignation at their suspects one more time. Leo is one cold blooded little psycho, which you could see even before he said that he recorded the rapes because they made him feel proud. Ugh. His poor girlfriend. Who the hell their girlfriend, "Hey, I'm letting this guy I know borrow you because he needs to get laid"? FFS. His rationalization for raping these women was even worse - they've all had sex before so what difference does doing it one more time make? First of all, he clearly didn't know who these women were ahead of time so there was no way for him to know if they'd had sex before. But as Ellie pointed out, their bodies are not for him to use without their consent. Let's see how much he still espouses this theory when he's being raped in prison. But you've already had sex before, Leo, so what's the big deal? The skewed logic with people like that is as mind boggling as it is horrifying.

So where did Paul go? Did he ask to be assigned to a new church? Or did he just quit being a priest completely? It's kind of shitty for his attitude to be "well, no one wants to come to church so I'm going to abandon the five people who actually bother to come and let some new priest deal with this apathetic parish." Being a priest isn't supposed to be about you, Paul. It's about God and serving the community, however large or small it may be.

ITA that Mark is conveniently forgetting about how serious his affair was so that he can believe that catalyst of his marriage falling apart was Danny's murder.

I know I was supposed to be moved that Clive was willing to take the fall for his son, but all I could think was dude, you hit your kid in the face in front of your entire footie team. Not exactly father of the year material. And let's not forget that he's been cheating on his wife left and right for years. So yeah, hard for me to think awww, what a nice guy for wanting to protect his kid.

I will really miss Hardy and Miller together. They were such a fantastic team. I loved last week (or the week before) when Hardy tried to blow off her inquiry and she flat out told him that what happens in his life affects her too. With different people, that could have come off sounding nosy or demanding, but with she had the perfect tone to convey that of course she wants him focused on the case but that she also cares because he's like family to her.

[NorthstarATL]

Well, I was sort of right about the twine guy, but missed the cabbie's son connection. Anatomically you cannot really FORCE someone to rape someone else, so the kid was messed up enough to carry out the crime; therefore i don't have any sympathy for him. Nor for twine guy. IIRC, all his previous attacks involved hitting the victim from behind first, so he KNEW he was assaulting them, whatever his convoluted explanation for the sex that followed might have been.

  Good explanations this time around for the events of the night and the confused stories. I will miss the team of Hardy and Miller, but I also don't see why the town and they cannot be revisited in the future under the right conditions. I did find it ironic that Hardy comforted Miller with "not all men are like that". I was like, yeah, look at her husband and son!

[madmaverick]

Good to know that Broadchurch donated to rape charities it consulted as well as helped financially support extended help hotlines during its broadcast.  I checked the donations page after reading the article, and thankfully, the amount raised is now more than a tenner though the current amount isn't that great considering the size of the show audience.  I do think the show did a good job showcasing the work that organisations supporting rape survivors do and how vital they can be for survivors, so I hope they get more support from the public. 

[sinkwriter]

Quote

Sociopath or no, he did know rape is against the law. So did he not see it as rape?

I don't think he thinks rape is real. In his head, it's "just sex." So even though he knows logically that this thing called rape is illegal, he didn't think it's really a big deal because to him rape is "just sex." Especially, apparently, if the woman has already had sex before. GRRRRRRR. I know he's just a character, but I still want to slap his face. Hard.

My favorite part was Hardy and Ellie sitting together at the very end, and in the scene where he tells her, "He's an aberration. Not all men are like that." I can certainly understand why Miller would have a hard time believing that after everything she's been through and seen.

I really love the Hardy and Miller partnership. I hope we get to see them again someday, somehow.

[spottedreptile]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

So where did Paul go? Did he ask to be assigned to a new church? Or did he just quit being a priest completely

I feel sorry for any new parish that he ends up in if so, with all his self-centered whining and poor me attitude. Did Paul ever stop to think that he may be at fault, that his parish doesn't want to confide him due to his all about me personality? Probably not, narcissistic people never know how they appear to others. 

Leo unfortunately personified an attitude about rape by some men that infuriates me as well as disgusts me. A close relative of mine was raped when she was young. Apart from the nightmare of guilt, shame and all the other emotions she underwent, it physically hurt a lot. Women aren't ever 'ready for rape.' Their bodies don't respond in the way they do if they want to have sex with someone. When a woman wants sex, her body responds in a way that should make it pleasurable. The cervix alters position for one, and various other responses happen which I'm sure we all know about. If she isn't ready for sex, it damm well hurts as well as all the other consequences. It's NEVER the same as having sex, and I congratulate the show on making this very good point.

[staveDarsky]

The finale felt rushed. It was exciting but we needed a lot more time for those last three or four scenes that were jammed into 5 minutes. The writer kept too many loose threads unanswered for too long. If they'd picked up the bag of twine and arrested Clive by the end of episode 7, we'd probably have had the needed time. Also the reenactment of Leo "lending" his girlfriend to Michael was not that necessary.

The third series suffered from too many side stories that were touched on but not fleshed out fully. I know they were all to illustrate the various degrees of good and bad attitudes to sex and sexuality, but some made it hard to understand the point that was being made. Maybe there will be some deleted scenes on the DVD that better explain the side stories, but I'd have kept to two side stories done really well rather than the half dozen or more that were going on. (Tom and the porn sharing, Daisy's photo and the boys hounding her, Ian and the spyware, Jim and his affairs, Ed stalking Trish, Maggie and the newspaper demise, Hardy's tinder date)

I'm glad Chris Chibnall didn't kill off either detective to end the series. But he did manage to flatten them a bit. I liked their sparring better in series 1 & 2. It was interesting to see them fall in sync with each other -- that breakfast making scene last week was almost ballet-like --- but only once did she call him arsehole. We needed more indignant Miller. I do hope that we see them again at some point.

[MightyLeeds]

I was a bit underwhelmed to be honest. They got away with having the perp be someone peripheral to the storyline in the first series, his close relationship to the major characters provided more than enough shock value. Here it was effectively a random perp and a random victim, took away from the everybody knows everybody vibe that contributed to the originality of Broadchurch. Kinda played out like a pamphlet on rape and porn to be shown in sex education classes in high school. Add that to the weird sub plot of Maggie's carrier suicide and the whole thing was all a bit preachy. 

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the series just think it fell slightly short compared to the original 

[spottedreptile]

4 hours ago, staveDarsky said:

I know they were all to illustrate the various degrees of good and bad attitudes to sex and sexuality, but some made it hard to understand the point that was being made

For me it wasn't just about attitudes towards sex and women. It was a common theme throughout the season, but the wider theme was about people taking responsibility for their actions. Nobody did. It was always someone else's fault or some outside circumstance. The new paper boss woman Caroline - "it's just algorithms, we don't control the ads, etc etc." The boys who posted the pictures of Daisy: "they're just pics." Even the rape - "it's just sex." Jim - "men like sex." All said with a shrug of the shoulders - as if what happens is just how it is and nobody needs to be accountable. Katie didn't think she was responsible for possibly screwing up the investigation because she didn't think her relationship with Ed mattered. She never even apologised for it, and then got bolshy with Ellie for giving her a bollocking. Nobody wanted to take ownership of their deeds. Not just the younger set either. 

I really really enjoyed the entire season, much more than season 2. 

[Christina]

3 hours ago, staveDarsky said:

The third series suffered from too many side stories that were touched on but not fleshed out fully. I know they were all to illustrate the various degrees of good and bad attitudes to sex and sexuality, but some made it hard to understand the point that was being made. Maybe there will be some deleted scenes on the DVD that better explain the side stories, but I'd have kept to two side stories done really well rather than the half dozen or more that were going on. (Tom and the porn sharing, Daisy's photo and the boys hounding her, Ian and the spyware, Jim and his affairs, Ed stalking Trish, Maggie and the newspaper demise, Hardy's tinder date)

Broadchurch has shown how a crime can create ripples throughout the community and make everyone and everything suspicious, but I agree with you; in this season it became too overburdened and convoluted with people and issues that it couldn't clean up in eight episodes. Broadchurch must be a odd place to live with all those shady characters.  I'll stay where I live with the farm animals and meth labs, thank you.

In reality, my community is so small there are no secrets; everyone knows everything about everyone else whether you want to or not, and there are rarely surprises. 

14 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

Anatomically you cannot really FORCE someone to rape someone else, so the kid was messed up enough to carry out the crime; therefore i don't have any sympathy for him.

Even though I know that men have become erect and both men and women have orgasmed during sexual assault, that completely went too far for me to contemplate for some reason. I scoffed at him being appalled when she was struck over the head, helped carry her into the wooded area, stared alarmed at him tying her up and shoving the sock into her mouth, but then performing, at gunpoint, a violent crime that required affirmative action on his part, even though he had the decency to cry about it. I wish that they would have either had the character all in and willing to take part in a brutal assault from the get go, or left it the lone sociopath or him alone. That scene just didn't work for me because I couldn't get my mind around him being able to perform, even though I know it is physically possible and happens to men being assaulted. There is just a mental disconnect for me there that caused the scene to stumble. 

It is still a good series and I will watch it again if BBC America airs it, but they probably won't since it is too British for that station.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

The third series suffered from too many side stories that were touched on but not fleshed out fully. I know they were all to illustrate the various degrees of good and bad attitudes to sex and sexuality, but some made it hard to understand the point that was being made. Maybe there will be some deleted scenes on the DVD that better explain the side stories, but I'd have kept to two side stories done really well rather than the half dozen or more that were going on. (Tom and the porn sharing, Daisy's photo and the boys hounding her, Ian and the spyware, Jim and his affairs, Ed stalking Trish, Maggie and the newspaper demise, Hardy's tinder date)

Quote

Broadchurch has shown how a crime can create ripples throughout the community and make everyone and everything suspicious, but I agree with you; in this season it became too overburdened and convoluted with people and issues that it couldn't clean up in eight episodes.

For me, the point is that these issues can't be cleared up in eight issues just as they can't be cleared up in eight weeks in real life. Rape culture exists and even the men who aren't rapists still have some fucked up ideas about what's appropriate behavior. It's too easy and reductionist to say that only rapists are bad. There are lots of other things that happen in regular everyday life that these men think is an acceptable way to treat women. Ian put spyware on Trish's laptop so he could FUCKING CYBERSTALK HER. He thought that was okay because he missed her (despite the fact that the reason he wasn't living at home was because he cheated on her with a coworker and moved in with his new girlfriend). He didn't rape anyone, but he violated her privacy in a really gross way. The teenage boys at school thought it was acceptable to steal and send a photo of Daisy to the entire school. With the exception of Michael, those high school boys didn't rape anyone but they treated her like an object, similar to the way Leo treated his rape victims as objects. Jim and Clive both cheated on their wives constantly. They didn't rape anyone, but they think their wives are just there to cook and clean for them, and they think it's okay to fuck any other willing woman despite being married. But heaven forbid they divorce their wives and look after themselves so they can fuck whoever they like! The overarching issue this season was that people seem to think it's okay to do things like spy on your ex-wife, cheat on your current wife, etc. as long as you can rationalize why YOU need to do this. Not everyone has Leo's exact attitude, but they are on the spectrum. "It's just sex" aka women are for objectification, which is what Maggie was trying to get across to her new boss who clearly didn't get it.

[Eucrid]

6 hours ago, MightyLeeds said:

I was a bit underwhelmed to be honest. They got away with having the perp be someone peripheral to the storyline in the first series, his close relationship to the major characters provided more than enough shock value. Here it was effectively a random perp and a random victim, took away from the everybody knows everybody vibe that contributed to the originality of Broadchurch. Kinda played out like a pamphlet on rape and porn to be shown in sex education classes in high school. Add that to the weird sub plot of Maggie's carrier suicide and the whole thing was all a bit preachy. 

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the series just think it fell slightly short compared to the original 

Me too. I was disappointed that the rape ended up being committed by a kid groomed by a psycho. I think its a little outlandish, most rapes aren't committed by some sort of disturbed cool and calculated serial rapist. The series had done such a great job of making the horrible realities of the case hit home and ring true. For me this ending up ended that. It would have been much more interesting if it was any of the other suspects. Instead surprise via convolution is our ending.

 

I really enjoyed the series overall I'm just disappointed with the ending. I also felt the epilogue with the full Church, etc was corny as hell.

[Christina]

People will always justify their bad acts, no matter whether it is big or small. The boys and men of Broadchurch had no problem objectifying women and the one woman who was shown to say that the story about an assault being surrounded by photos objectifying women, made it a point to say that she wasn't a feminist. The show made a point to have Hardy say that not every man thought like that yet they showed the majority of men acting like scum.

Other than Hardy laying into the teen boys and Ellie's short yell at her son about understanding consent, there was no resolution to any of those stories. The rapists were arrested and the show ends with the rest of the behavior just being what it is and how it is and that is what I didn't like. I think those underlying issues were overgeneralized because there was not enough time to flesh them out, and as a result it kind of ended with the theory that men will be men and you have to be feminist to understand why women in bikinis shouldn't be next to an article about a sexual assault. Pick two, show some kind of growth of the boys coming to an understanding that sharing a photo of Hardy's daughter isn't acceptable and is damaging or maybe some type of consequence for the husband spying on his wife. 

I didn't like the resolution that this is just how it is, until you step over the line to assault, which is how I feel the episode ended and watered down the issues they through out there. There were too many to tie up and almost everyone came across looking bad, shady or suspicious.

[Eri]

If that was Leo's mindset - then he should be charged for grooming his girlfriend for rape also, what a dirtbag. I wish Miller had lost it and punched him out like she did with Joe in Season 1. They did narrow each suspect down one by one but the ending felt rushed to me. I agree with what the others have said about how none of the suspects acted sorry for their actions, they were only butthurt because they got caught and there were no consequences for them afterwards. I thought it would've been nicer to see the aftermath of the arrest and how it affected everyone else much sooner. Where were Leo's parents? What was the mother's reaction when Miller and Hardy arrived? How would Tom have reacted to know that his friend was a rapist? (He can't seem to catch a break in the company he keeps!) How does Trish pick up the pieces now that she's learned the truth? Why didn't she lay into Ian like he deserved?

I'm glad Mark survived his suicide attempt but I wasn't sad that he left town - he and Beth just brought out the worst in each other. He made it clear that he had no intention of staying if they couldn't stay married. He's too self-absorbed to be a father to his other children so they're better off without him.

At least Maggie got a happy ending so to speak. Miller and Hardy being cordial to the end was appropriate for them.

[staveDarsky]

On 2017-04-20 at 10:10 PM, Eri said:

I'm glad Mark survived his suicide attempt but I wasn't sad that he left town - he and Beth just brought out the worst in each other. He made it clear that he had no intention of staying if they couldn't stay married. He's too self-absorbed to be a father to his other children so they're better off without him.

Mark didn't say anything about needing to stay married. He felt he couldn't properly heal in the presence of Beth, the girls and all the things in Broadchurch reminding him of Danny. He came to the realization she didn't want to be married to him any more and asked for confirmation of that, which she gave him.

[markx]

Enjoyed it, but there was a bit of a "The good people go to church, the bad people watch porn".

I agree with the comments about the disappointment of it being some random stranger; the last episode seemed to be fuelling the "perverts who watch porn and then rape random strangers" scaremongering, ignoring the widespread sexual assaults committed by people who know the victims.

Of course there's no reason why a TV show has to focus on what's most common, usually they don't, after all - but it did feel a bit preachy
 

[Superpole2000]

On 4/19/2017 at 6:14 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

For me, the point is that these issues can't be cleared up in eight issues just as they can't be cleared up in eight weeks in real life. Rape culture exists and even the men who aren't rapists still have some fucked up ideas about what's appropriate behavior. It's too easy and reductionist to say that only rapists are bad. There are lots of other things that happen in regular everyday life that these men think is an acceptable way to treat women. Ian put spyware on Trish's laptop so he could FUCKING CYBERSTALK HER. He thought that was okay because he missed her (despite the fact that the reason he wasn't living at home was because he cheated on her with a coworker and moved in with his new girlfriend). He didn't rape anyone, but he violated her privacy in a really gross way. The teenage boys at school thought it was acceptable to steal and send a photo of Daisy to the entire school. With the exception of Michael, those high school boys didn't rape anyone but they treated her like an object, similar to the way Leo treated his rape victims as objects. Jim and Clive both cheated on their wives constantly. They didn't rape anyone, but they think their wives are just there to cook and clean for them, and they think it's okay to fuck any other willing woman despite being married. But heaven forbid they divorce their wives and look after themselves so they can fuck whoever they like! The overarching issue this season was that people seem to think it's okay to do things like spy on your ex-wife, cheat on your current wife, etc. as long as you can rationalize why YOU need to do this. Not everyone has Leo's exact attitude, but they are on the spectrum. "It's just sex" aka women are for objectification, which is what Maggie was trying to get across to her new boss who clearly didn't get it.

This show focused almost entirely on the worst kind of men because it was a rape investigation. I don't think it is fair to use this show as evidence to support theories about real world men. Cyberstalking, rape, assault, and distributing porn...these are not especially common (although still far too prevalent) behaviours. As for cheating...I'd say women play a fairly equal role in that shameful activity.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Superpole2000

[secnarf]

2 hours ago, Superpole2000 said:

This show focused almost entirely on the worst kind of men because it was a rape investigation. I don't think it is fair to use this show as evidence to support theories about real world men. Cyberstalking, rape, assault, and distributing porn...these are not especially common (although still far too prevalent) behaviours. As for cheating...I'd say women play a fairly equal role in that shameful activity.

I think one of the points this series aims to make is that these behaviours are far more common than we realize, and that it's not always obvious who might be engaging in said activities. It may be people that you would least expect.

[Lady Iris]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 10:21 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ITA that Mark is conveniently forgetting about how serious his affair was so that he can believe that catalyst of his marriage falling apart was Danny's murder.

Hah, I know I completely forgot about that detail.

[AnnieBeez]

I'm so over Mark. I wish he'd put rocks in his pocket. 

[dragonsbite]

Aired  tonight in the USA!

My thoughts as the show ran:

• The opening with Hardy just showing up at Clive's garage totally confused me...I'd forgotten how last episode ended and missed the previouslies. Thank goodness the DVR was active so I could rewind to the previouslies, then fast forward back to the live action.
• Don't miss the previouslies, people!
• Clive is creepy but I'm thinking it's the son instead. And Clive's covering. I believed his bewilderment about the sock.
• Wow! Ed's confession makes sense and is terribly sad. 
• Millah for the win:  "And that license plate belongs to...swaggery little shit!"
• Mark, just. go. away. What a waste of screen time.  I don't understand how his angst has any relevance to the story line this season...other than showing the lives of people in the Broadchurch community at large. Meh.
• Just noticed that Hardy's beard is much more tame. Thank goodness. Much more attractive this way.
• Miller should be munching on fast food, not drinking energy drinks.
• Did they give Clive any rest and a chance to talk to his lawyer? Doesn't look like it.
• Woot!  I was right about the son!!!!  er, but wrong about Clive covering for him -- not sure now whether Clive knew.
• Good God, Leo's so much more than a swaggery little shit. Has his girlfriend take care of the son? Dick. Also? Were I the girlfriend, Leo would be castrated. Also also? I still don't know the son's name.
• What's on the flash drive? What's on the driiiiiiiiiiive?
• How many times have we heard that Primal Scream song this season?
• Leo planned it, but why? What's the motive? I don't think they have sold this behavior. We didn't see enough of Leo. Of course, if Leo is the serial rapist, he's training the son to be like him. Makes me think of a Criminal Minds episode now. Or else Leo is just sadistic. But Show didn't sell that characteristic either.
• Aaaannnnd we were all correct about the source of the light :  cell phone.
• Oh, the son's name is Michael. Thanks, Alec.
• Ah, backtracking....Clive did know all this time. Hmmmm.
• Why would people keep incriminating evidence on a phone? I store my secret files in Google drive...much easier to access from multiple devices. ;-)
• Still not believing this part of Leo. We should have seen some of those statements, that attitude earlier in the season. The early swaggering attitude just doesn't lead me to the conclusion that he's a rapist so much as he's a jerk.
• Why would Leo's statements make Miller cry? She's tougher than that.
• I'm not invested in Paul or the newspaper editor, so I don't care what they're going to do next.
• Gah, BBC America -- what a horrible cut to commericals -- Miller barely completed her sentence about the boys going down for the rape. I really need to see this episode uncut.
• Paul's sermon = too sappy for a denouement.  "Just ignore him. I do." = much more fitting for an end. Trish accepting her husband's overtures = okay.   (truly, there's more drama happening on the TV downstairs where the family is watching the Astros play the Diamondbacks -- bottom of the 8th)

[voiceover]

Eh.  Okay, I guess; I'm glad I sat through it all.

But this is still what I wish for:

Inspectors Morse & Lewis went on for years!

Sure, get 'em out of Broadchurch, but recurring-series Hardy & Miller seems a goldmine of fabulous potential.  It doesn't all have to be about Devastating Plot.  I feel like that's how this all got tripped up -- desperately trying to one-up.  In this respect, it bored me like Doctor Who has for years.

But those two are a lovely original take on the oppo-partners genre. And I mourn that they're being dropped.

[Last Time Lord]

Well, I feel like I need a long hot shower, and scrub until my skin comes off.

I didn't think anything could out disturb the motivation behind the serial rapes from Veronica Mars' third and final season, but... I was wrong. I was so very, very wrong.

My big complaint is that it was a great season ender, but I thought it  was lacking was a series ender. This is largely attributed to the fact that the only had what, five minutes to actually wrap things up?

[J-Man]

Did they ever explain whether or not they were going to charge Clive with a crime?

[Souris]

I'm gonna miss Hardy and "Mill-ah" so much. They were a joy to watch together.

"Swaggery little shit!" I love Ellie.

[smorbie]

On 4/18/2017 at 5:14 AM, madmaverick said:

 Maybe one off 2 hour movies or 4 episode series, if not an 8 episode series?  Shame if we never saw them and their excellent chemistry again.

yes, that would be perfect!  Hello, BBC?  You've captured lightning in a bottle with these characters!  Don't let them go.

[ghoulina]

I'll admit it. I cried. I'm going to miss the glorious team of Hardy and Millah. I'm going to miss the beautiful Broadchurch scenery, replete with enough sketchy characters to fill a prison. I did love seeing those final moments with the Lattimers and the Millers. I loved Daisy telling her dad she's proud of him. I loved Hardy's, "No, I will not go to the pub with you, but I'll see you tomorrow". Gah. I'm going to miss this show so much. Mysteries/Crime/Detectives - my favorite genre for books and TV. There's really nothing else out there like this, what with how strong the acting and writing is. But I will say, I'm glad they went out on a good note - and not like a million other shows who drag a series on way past the point of usefulness. 

As to the "whodunit". I'm satisfied. It was not exactly something I'd thought of, but it wasn't so far out there in left field that I felt cheated. We'd considered the soccer group and an initiation angle. This wasn't exactly the same thing, but sort of up the same alley. We'd considered a youth, but thought they'd be too young, considering the other rapes. So an existing rapist grooming someone younger does make sense. Leo was downright pathological and terrifying in his final interview. 

I did feel that Clive offering to take the fall for his son fell a bit flat. I can understand him covering up/keeping quiet - because he's basically a shady bastard and probably didn't want any unwanted attention on himself or his family. But he seems to freaking hate that kid, treats him like shit. (Which left the kid more susceptible to being groomed.) So why would he offer to take the fall for him? I'd think he'd be glad to have him out of his life. 

I'm glad Trish got some resolution. But I really felt for her when she was struck by thought of her rape being just pure, dumb luck. She'll likely stew over it for the rest of her life - "If I just hadn't gone outside. If I hadn't fought with Ian." 

I did feel that they were almost trying to redeem Ed and Ian a bit too much there at the end. Sure, they're not rapists. But stalking and spying on a woman are still fucking creepy and I'd be giving those two a wide berth myself. 

Overall, a satisfying send off to possibly my favorite detective duo ever. I will miss them. 

[Milburn Stone]

Complaint: Very unsatisfying how BBC America scheduled its commercial interruptions in the last ten minutes of the show. The scene where Ellie tells Trish and Leah about the arrest seemed to end abruptly, giving the impression that some material was missing; and the rush away from the final cliff shot into promos for the next program denied the audience a proper sense of closure.

This is why we've generally preferred to stream the show on Apple TV the next night--to see the show as its creators intended--but Mrs. Stone couldn't wait. :)

[smorbie]

9 hours ago, voiceover said:

it bored me like Doctor Who has for years.

DW stared out great this year!  I was so excited because it's been unwatchable for quite a while.  But, by midseason, I was all out of love for it.  I stopped watching again and am almost certainly not even with the new doctor.  

[smorbie]

38 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

possibly my favorite detective duo ever

Second, of course, to Shawn and Gus

10 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Complaint: Very unsatisfying how BBC America scheduled its commercial interruptions in the last ten minutes of the show. The scene where Ellie tells Trish and Leah about the arrest seemed to end abruptly, giving the impression that some material was missing; and the rush away from the final cliff shot into promos for the next program denied the audience a proper sense of closure.

This is why we've generally preferred to stream the show on Apple TV the next night--to see the show as its creators intended--but Mrs. Stone couldn't wait. :)

Okay, I have apple tv and I didn't know I could do that.  Is there a bbc ap I've overlooked or something?

[Kathira]

2 minutes ago, smorbie said:

DW stared out great this year!  I was so excited because it's been unwatchable for quite a while.  But, by midseason, I was all out of love for it.  I stopped watching again and am almost certainly not even with the new doctor.  

I was a little disappointed by Jodie Whittaker being cast as the Doctor, not because she was a woman, but because I found Beth so annoying in the 1st two seasons of Broadchurch. But this season really redeemed her for me. Watching her now and thinking about how she could be as the Doctor has really won me over. I think that her acting with Chibnall writing will be an unbeatable team. At least that's what I'm hoping.

I agree with those who found the end a bit anticlimactic. But how could it be otherwise? We weren't going to have the kind of devastating end of the first season, or even the second season. I was glad it wasn't Ed, Jim, Ian or any of the other main early suspects. I found the bit with the cabbie's son a bit contrived. Maybe they were just trying so hard to keep the mystery going until the last minute that the "psycho grooming a younger partner" element wasn't as well developed as it could have been. If they'd given us a lot of scenes with them, the audience would have twigged a lot sooner. But backgrounding them that much made it a bit flat at the end. I may have to rewatch to look for clues.

I liked the ending with Mark and Beth. They needed some kind of closure for that storyline and I'm glad they were honest about the problems they were having even before Danny's death and didn't just fold Mark back into the family. I like to think he'll still see his kids, though, even if it's just summers and holidays.

All in all, a nice "life goes on" ending for our favorite English village. Some left, and some stayed, in the normal and ordinary way of life, the ripples smoothing out into the rhythms of small town life.  And Hardy is part of them, now, too, he and Miller bickering and eating each other's food into comfortable old age.

[smorbie]

2 minutes ago, Kathira said:

And Hardy is part of them, now, too, he and Miller bickering and eating each other's food into comfortable old age.

That's how I'm going to think of them.  I'm glad they didn't let them end up romantically involved.  They're perfect just they way they are.  I didn't want them broken up or Hardy's leaving again.  I want to think of them working with the Wessex Police Department forever, together.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

On 5/28/2017 at 5:12 PM, Superpole2000 said:

This show focused almost entirely on the worst kind of men because it was a rape investigation. I don't think it is fair to use this show as evidence to support theories about real world men. Cyberstalking, rape, assault, and distributing porn...these are not especially common (although still far too prevalent) behaviours.

Obviously a TV show is fictional and not real evidence for anything. I don't think the majority of men hurt women in those ways, but I do think that the majority of women have experienced one or more of those things. I myself have been real-life stalked, assaulted more times than I can remember (not raped but grabbed by the breasts, ass, crotch, been forced to kiss someone), been sexually harassed or assaulted in stores, on the street, at work, on dates. So the show is not reality but I think it is based on reality.

[pezgirl7]

I guess I'm pretty happy with the ending. I did guess that the cabby's son had something to do with it, but didn't think he was the actual rapist. We knew Leo was a cocky asshole, but there was no indication that he was a psycho rapist, so that was a surprise. I can't remember, did he admit to doing the other rapes? I don't remember them mentioning the other two cases at all.

[Last Time Lord]

1 hour ago, pezgirl7 said:

I guess I'm pretty happy with the ending. I did guess that the cabby's son had something to do with it, but didn't think he was the actual rapist. We knew Leo was a cocky asshole, but there was no indication that he was a psycho rapist, so that was a surprise. I can't remember, did he admit to doing the other rapes? I don't remember them mentioning the other two cases at all.

He recorded them and kept the videos on phones taped underneath his desk at work. 

[LADreamr]

3 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Obviously a TV show is fictional and not real evidence for anything. I don't think the majority of men hurt women in those ways, but I do think that the majority of women have experienced one or more of those things. I myself have been real-life stalked, assaulted more times than I can remember (not raped but grabbed by the breasts, ass, crotch, been forced to kiss someone), been sexually harassed or assaulted in stores, on the street, at work, on dates. So the show is not reality but I think it is based on reality.

Yeah, when Hardy said this is not men, he's an aberration, I thought, to this extreme? Sure. But he's not that much of an aberration. I deal with a lot of men who I'm sure have some of the same thoughts he was expressing, even if they don't physically act on them.  I wish it were as rare as he seems to believe. 

[tennisgurl]

I'm not going to lie, I'm going to miss this show even more than I thought I would. What will I do without Miller and Hardy banter? "Should we go to the pub?" "...no, See you tomorrow". They're just the best, I would watch them investigate minor traffic violations if we got more of Miller giving Hardy grief about his eating habits, and Hardy yells Mi-laar! in his super Scottish accent at least once an episode.

I thought this was a pretty solid wrap up to the mystery, and to the series as a whole. We get some closure with the major characters, we get the feeling that people are moving on with their lives, and we got a last shot of those beautiful cliffs where the whole show started. The second season of the show was a pretty big mess (I did a LOT of goggling about the British legal system to figure out how realistic all of this insanity was. It wasn't very realistic), but I think this season was a solid rebound. Granted, I have a few complaints (I think it would have made more sense if the rapist was someone Trish actually knew, not some random psycho and the kid he was grooming),but I'm satisfied with the reveal of the bad guys, and how everything came together. Leo was always my top suspect, being the creepiest of all the creepy guys, but I didn't see the cabbies son being the actual rapist, albeit one who was goaded into it. Granted, I should have seen it coming, considering he fits the "guy who was in the background of the case but never really a suspect" profile that Joe did in season 1, I just thought he was too young to have such a meticulous rape ritual, but this explains it. Maybe he could eventually be ok with some serious therapy and consequences (he might have been reluctant, but he did go through with the rape), but Leo is obviously a total sociopath, who really just doesn't seem to think always apply to him. It seems like he knows rape is illegal, so he hides it, but he also thinks the law is stupid, and its "just sex" so who cares about what the women thought? His smug smiles set off my alarm as soon as I saw him. He looks like the evil rapist frat boy on every episode of Law and Order SVU ever set on a college campus. Swaggery little shit indeed.

In a lot of ways, Leo is a much more vicious variation of what lots of characters have said and done. People just keep trying to pass off responsibility, and act like what they do isn't really That Bad. Ed, Ian, and Jim all did awful, invasive things, but they were all quick to say the "its just sex" line, or "I'm stalking her because I love her" or "I creeped on her because I miss her and she's my wife", which doesn't make them rapists, but it does show how people refuse to look at the consequences of what they do, and how it affects the people around them. You could even tie that into Katie acting like hiding that her Ed was her dad wasn't a big deal because she wanted in on the case, Marks suicide attempt, or even Trish saying exactly what Leo said about sleeping with her best friends husband (its just sex!), even if those things are less invasive and malicious. Clearly what Leo did was in a class all its own, but the rest of the characters are more "normal" people who also pass the buck, try to downplay their bad activities, or don't think about the consequences of what they do.

I'm sad that Mark and Beth couldn't make it work, but its probably for the best. They had big problems in their marriage even before Danny's death, and if being around everyone makes Mark feel like he wants to die, its probably a good idea for him to take some time for himself. I do hope he comes back to be with the girls more, or they can come see him, even if being with Beth is too painful.

All in all, this is a good ending for the show, but I would be happy to get one more season, and one more case for Miller and Hardy to solve. Lord knows Broadchurch has enough weirdoes around to commit crimes! You know, this show sometimes makes me want to visit this part of the UK (such great scenery!) and makes me want to avoid it like the plague (so many scary or shady people!) so this show has impacted future vacation plans either way!

[smorbie]

7 hours ago, LADreamr said:

Yeah, when Hardy said this is not men, he's an aberration, I thought, to this extreme? Sure. But he's not that much of an aberration. I deal with a lot of men who I'm sure have some of the same thoughts he was expressing, even if they don't physically act on them.  I wish it were as rare as he seems to believe. 

Everyone, male and female, has horrible thoughts from time to time, but they don't act on them.  The thoughts are between them and God. The acts are the problem.  Biologically men and women are wired to find a mate and procreate.  Religion and society have done a pretty good job of making that a more civilized pursuit, but it is what it is.  There will always be people who think it's all right to abuse another person, sexually, physically, or emotionally.  We all have to deal with predators of one kind or another.  But that doesn't condemn all of the people of the same sex, race, religion, or eye color of the person who hurt us.  

Hardy is right.  He is an aberration.

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I would watch them investigate minor traffic violations if we got more of Miller giving Hardy grief about his eating habits, and Hardy yells Mi-laar! in his super Scottish accent at least once an episode.

Me, too.  Where do we go to protest and demand this

Edited August 18, 2017 by smorbie

[Quilt Fairy]

55 minutes ago, smorbie said:

his super Scottish accent

There was one point when Hardy was interviewing Ed and giving him a real hard time that I thought that actor playing Ed had to be thinking "Why do I sound normal and you sound like you're auditioning for Braveheart?"