S01.E10: Chapter Ten: The Lost Weekend

[Primetimer]

Betty bets wrong that Juggie will enjoy a nice 'lowkey' surprise party, and what results is an overstuffed episode that still manages to satisfy with secrets and sex.

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[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

Cheryl is a necessity due to the murder, and all the characters are entangled with her family to some extent (plus she's a core cast member), whereas Chuck is not so connected.

This. Comparing Chuck and Cheryl seems a stretch to me. Cheryl is integral to a core part of the show - she's part of the "evil, quite possibly crazy" family in the town who are archenemies of the Cooper family (also quite possibly batshit crazy) and of course was Jason's sister who was there the day he was murdered and may or not have been creepily in love with him. 

I fail to see what Chuck adds to this show. He smirked and was a douchebag for most of the episode. I guess if I was as mesmerized as others by his chest, I'd be interested in seeing more of him, but since I'm not, yeah I'm fine with never seeing him again. Just like I was more than fine with Grundy leaving and that mess with Archie ending. For the record, I rarely enjoy the asshole/smirky characters. It's why I hated Damon Salvatore and Chuck Bass who unfortunately were main characters that I couldn't get away from while watching these shows. 

To be honest, I was annoyed with that whole stupid scene where Archie and company allowed Cheryl and Chuck to practically hold them hostage in Archie's own home. Put the bitch and the tool out or just ignore them. Instead they turn off the music and all dutifully sit there for that nonsense scene. It was ridiculous. So yeah, until Chuck becomes relevant in any way to the major plotlines of this show, I'm fine with not seeing him again. And frankly, I don't know why not wanting to see the character again even has to be explained. No one's asking for an explanation for those who want more of him simply because he's apparently so hot to look at.  Well I guess that's all the explanation that's needed.

[Chick2Chic]

11 hours ago, RealFantasies said:

I feel like show's OTPs are Betty/Jughead and Veronica/Archie, and they should keep it that way.

I love the stuffing out of this show but they have a serious problem with diversity. Nearly all the people of color and/or LGBTQ folks (which for the latter, consists of Kevin and Joaquin) are either minimized without a story of their own, or painted as one-note antagonists. They casted Reggie as Asian (which was cool) but he either plays a bit role or only shows up to play Bad to Archie's Good. They refuse to show the other women of color, to the point that the lead character was DATING one of them and the audience was left unaware until it was over. Camila and Marisol are white-passing, they could do MUCH better on this. Chuck is the only black guy outside of Pops to even be SEEN in Riverdale so of course he's Brock Turner-lite. The only other Asian guy on canvas is referred to as a "psychopath that likes to play with guns". Joaquin looks Native OR Hispanic but he's in a gang and screwing the sheriff's son for information. And Kevin's the only gay kid at Riverdale High so god forbid he be shown in a happy, healthy relationship.

It's not inherently bad that so many of the people of color on canvas are either recurring and/or antagonists but the fact that they are not shaded out and given further nuance like Cheryl is, is a gross oversight.

I actually really liked what I was able to see of Valerie & Archie and could've supported them more if the show had bothered to put their relationship onscreen.  I liked their chemistry and they also had a pretty significant relationship with marriage and a baby in the comics. I think Veronica has more Sapphic chemistry than she does any chemistry with guys on the show.

I totally agree with the rest of this on the issues with representation and diversity on the show. I find it very problematic, especially post episode 6. As I mentioned in the Race Relations thread, I wish other mainstream media sites other than Bustle would talk about Riverdale's glaring representation issues. 

[scorp01]

I liked this episode far more than last week.  I'm definitely not a teenager or even close to it, but Jughead's party and all its drama was so much more interesting than the maple syrup stuff in the last episode.

I initially thought Jughead was being a little over the top with his outsider status and not having any real friends, but when you actually think about it...I can see where he's coming from.  He's from the Southside, which I suppose if you're from Riverdale means that you're lower class gang scum.  Alice pretty much summed it up when she was talking to FP, although she's probably overcompensating for the fact that she herself is from the Southside (which now makes her infinitely more interesting to me).  Jughead also has to deal with his dad's alcoholism, his mom leaving with Jellybean and his self-imposed homelessness so I get why he feels like he doesn't necessarily fit in or has real friends other than Betty and Archie.

Also really hope we get more of backstory of FP and Alice.  They knew each other when they were younger and she had connections to the Serpents?  Yes please!  I know Fred is the most stable parent and I appreciate that about him, but he's just kind of bland.  Sheriff Keller seems like a good guy, but sort of incompetent as a sheriff.  Hermione...meh.  I would love to see a flashback episode of all the parents though.  

2 hours ago, Advance35 said:

Don't know who wants him gone and don't care. I want MORE.  The guy is too gorgeous.  If I were in High School, I would be team evil just for a shot at him.   I think he makes a good antagonist for the group as it can't be 24/7 Cheryl.   Introduce his partner in evil-doing "Nancy" and we've got ourselves a Season 2 Villains team.

No to evil Nancy (Chuck's longtime girlfriend in the comics)!  And no to evil Chuck for that matter!  I wish there was a way to redeem him next season (or at least partially, ala Cheryl) since in the comics Chuck is the nicest guy.  I know Riverdale isn't necessarily following the comics for character development but it makes me sad that the only male POC is the big baddie.  

[NorthstarATL]

3 minutes ago, scorp01 said:

I liked this episode far more than last week.  I'm definitely not a teenager or even close to it, but Jughead's party and all its drama was so much more interesting than the maple syrup stuff in the last episode.

I initially thought Jughead was being a little over the top with his outsider status and not having any real friends, but when you actually think about it...I can see where he's coming from.  He's from the Southside, which I suppose if you're from Riverdale means that you're lower class gang scum.  Alice pretty much summed it up when she was talking to FP, although she's probably overcompensating for the fact that she herself is from the Southside (which now makes her infinitely more interesting to me).  Jughead also has to deal with his dad's alcoholism, his mom leaving with Jellybean and his self-imposed homelessness so I get why he feels like he doesn't necessarily fit in or has real friends other than Betty and Archie.

Also really hope we get more of backstory of FP and Alice.  They knew each other when they were younger and she had connections to the Serpents?  Yes please!  I know Fred is the most stable parent and I appreciate that about him, but he's just kind of bland.  Sheriff Keller seems like a good guy, but sort of incompetent as a sheriff.  Hermione...meh.  I would love to see a flashback episode of all the parents though.  

No to evil Nancy (Chuck's longtime girlfriend in the comics)!  And no to evil Chuck for that matter!  I wish there was a way to redeem him next season (or at least partially, ala Cheryl) since in the comics Chuck is the nicest guy.  I know Riverdale isn't necessarily following the comics for character development but it makes me sad that the only male POC is the big baddie.  

Nancy's cheating on Chuck in at least one series, so it's not out of the realm of possibility for her character to be part of an Axis of Evil on this show. But they should at least flesh out Josie and Melody and maybe show us where Reggie's being locked away before introducing any new blood.

[Dobian]

8 hours ago, RealFantasies said:

I see that everyone's come to a consensus that Betty and Jughead need to jump in bed already but I'm still wondering if he'll end up on the ace spectrum somewhere, lol. The emotional intimacy they share is deeper than many of the adult relationships on primetime, imho.

This is a cheesy soap opera, as soon as Jughead and Betty get really intimate they'll wreck it for drama.

[Dee]

Cheryl and her insanely rich, power mad family of criminals and assholes, who own everything and regularly terrorize everyone in town are perfectly ok and "soapy" while Chuck being a handsomely privileged douche, who was rightfully punished for his actions by his own father, after being almost killed by a mentally ill white girl and her accomplices for which they were never were held accountable is "expendable" and is treated like a perpetual pariah despite apologizing to at least one former victims is somehow a bridge too far?

Wow. Apparently Riverdale's writers aren't the only ones with issues with diversity.

[TheLastKidPicked]

Really like the little touches the writers come up with.

Jughead drinking milk straight out of the carton.  Because of course he would.

[UNOSEZ]

So... Are we just all OK with chuck just getting assaulted all the time with no repercussions for anyone?? I thought lots of the football team participated in that book of shame... Also how is the book actually tantamount sexual harassment.. Either way hes suspended... Kicked off the football team but the rest of the guys are OK.. Then Betty accosted him as soon as he comes back to school even though hes apologizing to Ethel then she slaps him at the party then juggead sucker punches him... Having a hard time rooting for the "good guys"

[TheLastKidPicked]

Reading the post above by Unosez.    

Hopefully one of you can articulate it better than I can, but it just seems even more uncomfortable that they are doing this with a person of color.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Cheryl and her insanely rich, power mad family of criminals and assholes, who own everything and regularly terrorize everyone in town are perfectly ok and "soapy" while Chuck being a handsomely privileged douche, who was rightfully punished for his actions by his own father, after being almost killed by a mentally ill white girl and her accomplices for which they were never were held accountable is "expendable" and is treated like a perpetual pariah despite apologizing to at least one former victims is somehow a bridge too far?

Wow. Apparently Riverdale's writers aren't the only ones with issues with diversity.

Obviously Cheryl and her family are not "OK" in any sort of moral sense. They are villains. But to me, they are interesting and fun to watch villains. Cheryl herself seems to have layers (Papa and Mama Blossom, not yet). I personally don't mind watching soapy, over the top villains. People's mileage may vary.

I never said anything about the treatment of Chuck not being unfortunate or even racist. As many people have pointed out, the notion of a black man chained isn't a comfortable one either. Nor did I say that Betty and Veronica shouldn't have been held accountable. 

Chuck was not treated as a "perpetual pariah" as evidenced by this very episode. He and Cheryl were able to make an alliance, bring something like 30+ friends to crash Jughead's party and people paid attention to him during the "secrets" game. 

Of course, none of that has anything to do with the earlier points I was trying to make, which were that he is boring as a villain and the writers seem to be incapable of avoiding racial stereotypes with him. So I would prefer that he gets backburnered.

46 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

So... Are we just all OK with chuck just getting assaulted all the time with no repercussions for anyone?? I thought lots of the football team participated in that book of shame... Also how is the book actually tantamount sexual harassment.. Either way hes suspended... Kicked off the football team but the rest of the guys are OK.. Then Betty accosted him as soon as he comes back to school even though hes apologizing to Ethel then she slaps him at the party then juggead sucker punches him... Having a hard time rooting for the "good guys"

Nope, not OK. Not clear if there will be "no repercussions for anyone," now that Chuck told the whole party what happened.

We don't know what if anything happened to the other football players re: book of shame and the sexual harassment.

The book wasn't the only part of the sexual harassment. It was deemed "proof" of other sexual harassment, including girls being slutshamed on social media as having maple syrup on their faces. (Why the social media itself was not sufficient proof, I have no idea. It was a poorly written episode.)

[Dee]

53 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

So... Are we just all OK with chuck just getting assaulted all the time with no repercussions for anyone?? I thought lots of the football team participated in that book of shame... Also how is the book actually tantamount sexual harassment.. Either way hes suspended... Kicked off the football team but the rest of the guys are OK.. Then Betty accosted him as soon as he comes back to school even though hes apologizing to Ethel then she slaps him at the party then juggead sucker punches him... Having a hard time rooting for the "good guys"

Valerie engenders a similar response.

She's clearly broken up with Archie but goes to a party with one of her best friends, which is unfortunately at his house, that many of the popular kids in Riverdale High are at.

Somehow, she manages to avoid him through the night, until Archie grabs HER the minute he sees her leaving, and tries to FORCE her to stay until she has to throw a drink in his face to get away, yet it's still somehow HER fault that he's acting like a giant douche.

[UNOSEZ]

Agree that it was poorly written because the only person that seemed to be punished has been chuck if others were the show made no attempt to let us in on it.. I also agree that chuck hasn't been fleshed out more than sexist football douchelord I hope that changes... Personally I hope he becomes a well rounded villian... As a blk guy I've been waiting for the chance for one of my own to be the scheming annoying dastardly villian not just the noble hero.. To me thats real progress and diversity cuz trust me we can be Machiavellian as well.. That said I do want some character to ask how Betty and Ronnie got no flak for what they did.. That is if it isnt explained or shown soon... If its just left in the air like (oh well sorry chuck some honest to god physical assault happened to you on a few occasions but you've been a douche so its ok)  ill be upset 

[tennisgurl]

Oy. Do we have to bring Chuck back and its super awkward racial subtext? I like the actor (hot and plays dickhead delightfully well), but Chuck is just a one note horn dog asshole. And, much like what I said in his other episode (where Bonkers Betty practically deep fried him), the show seems to act like he's some kind of serial rapist who cant go one day with slipping roofies or grabbing girls asses in the hallway. He was guilty of bragging to his friends about hooking up with girls, making up conquests, passing that book around between his friends, and spreading rumors about girls. Which is asshole behavior, don't get me wrong, but the way they treat him just seems disproportionate. He just seems to be a typical teenaged jerk, not a monster. I don't think he deserves to get tortured, and constantly smacked by the heroes.  And yes, it is awkward that the one black guy with lines in the show is the most unsympathetic kid characters we`ve had, who spends most of his time lusting over white (or Latina) women. It wouldn't be so bad if you had other more well adjusted and sympathetic black men on the show, but, except for Pops whos a background character, we haven't. Its fine to have a black character be a villain, it would just be less awkward if he was a more interesting villain, or there were other non evil black guys.  I don't get why they went to all the trouble to add POC and LGBTQ characters if they aren't actually going to do anything with them.

Despite that, I did actually like this episode quite a lot. I even dug Archie/Ronnie together, and saw some real chemistry between them. I generally thought Archie was decently likable here, and I really felt for him feeling weird about his parents impending divorce. If they go with a Jughead/Betty and Archie/Veronica endgame, I would be happy with that. I thought they were both quite cute this episode, even though Jughead, as much as I like him, was being a HUGE drama queen this episode. Yes, Betty doing the party when she knew he wouldn't like it was a bad call. But she really did mean well, and him being all moody and pissed off was rather off-putting. Like, suck it up dude, and just work on those communication skills when the parties over. They did talk it out in the end though, so I will give them both a pass.

That scene with Betty singing Happy Birthday with the cake really was super haunting. It was like the trailer for an upcoming horror movie. For all that Jughead talks about him being the troubled kid and Betty being the girl next door, she's the one to watch when it comes to violent tendencies. I was half convinced there was going to be an axe in that cake. Also, Alice was a Serpent! Awesome! I'm not that surprised though. She's basically still a serpent now, just she traded her leather in for cashmere.

Cheryl is just the most extra person in the world. I loved when Veronica basically said exactly what everyone else has been saying about her and Jason and their Lannister shenanigans.

Archie letting everyone in with their kegs was admittedly stupid, but it felt very true for a teenaged boy. "Well, I know these guys are evil incarnate and this will only end in tears and violence, but...free booze!" I also liked seeing some of the supporting/background characters pop up again. I hope we see more scenes with a bunch of the kids together.

[Bort]

I almost forgot my favorite part: Hermione referring to the Blossom dad as a "wig-wearing monster." And that's the 64 million dollar question for me: WHY is he wearing a wig? And if he has so much damn money, why doesn't he get a better-quality wig? I can find better hair than that in my shower drain.

[Chick2Chic]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

2 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

So... Are we just all OK with chuck just getting assaulted all the time with no repercussions for anyone?? I thought lots of the football team participated in that book of shame... Also how is the book actually tantamount sexual harassment.. Either way hes suspended... Kicked off the football team but the rest of the guys are OK.. Then Betty accosted him as soon as he comes back to school even though hes apologizing to Ethel then she slaps him at the party then juggead sucker punches him... Having a hard time rooting for the "good guys"

Valerie engenders a similar response.

She's clearly broken up with Archie but goes to a party with one of her best friends, which is unfortunately at his house, that many of the popular kids in Riverdale High are at.

Somehow, she manages to avoid him through the night, until Archie grabs HER the minute he sees her leaving, and tries to FORCE her to stay until she has to throw a drink in his face to get away, yet it's still somehow HER fault that he's acting like a giant douche.

I have noticed this as well. Seems to go hand in hand in erasing and/or ignoring the Valerie and Archie love story from the comics too, which is shameful. 

I didn't find this episode as boring as the last three episodes but the writing still feels off yet manipulative rather than letting the murder mystery unfold steadily. 

[Lady Calypso]

I still don't know if I like what they're doing with Cheryl. She still feels more uneven in terms of her characterization, rather than her just having complex layers. Some episodes, she's this over the top villain, like she was here. But then other episodes has her helping the gang and being nice to them. I feel like the show doesn't know what side they want Cheryl on, so they just have her alternating, depending on the theme of the episode. The actress is wonderful, but the writing for Cheryl is all over the place. So I'm not really on board with Cheryl like others.

I'm fine with Jughead being sour about his birthday. I think he explained it at the beginning of the episode to Archie, and he did try to fake it for a while. I'm kind of with Jughead; when I say something, I tend to mean it so Jughead being a little upset at Betty throwing him a party reminded me of myself. It was nice that she only invited inner circle, before Cheryl/Chuck showed up. I do think she meant well, but I can't blame Jughead for not being over the moon about it.

Jughead really is good with Betty. They have their fights, but they end up communicating and understanding each other. I do hope the show recognizes the true chemistry with Archie/Veronica and Betty/Jughead and go there instead of forcing a love triangle...or love square. You know what I appreciate about this show? The girls aren't just there to listen to the boys' mainpain. Betty isn't just supportive; she gets to vent about her life and Jughead listens, like this episode. And Veronica got to interject with her own family drama while Archie listened to her here. Thinking about it, it doesn't happen too often on other shows, not in the way they do it here.

The issue with Chuck is he's been in two episodes, that's it, and suddenly he's the worst person on this show, or something. All the other guys were part of the sexual conquests yet Chuck is the only one punished for it. His appearances don't match up to him being this monster like the show is portraying. Hell, Betty almost killed the guy and she's supposed to look like the hero (and Betty's my favourite character). Not that Chuck isn't an asshole, but he seems to be written only to be an asshole. 

JP is by far the second most interesting adult on the show. Obviously, Alice is the first. Basically, the Jones and Cooper families are the ones I'm most interested in. I like Veronica and I like Hermione, and I do think Camilla is the best actress on the show, but I'm oddly more attached to Betty. But yeah, now Alice is an ex Serpent? That's a very interesting development. Hopefully, JP and Alice are the two adults who make it through all of this mess. 

6 hours ago, scorp01 said:

I know Riverdale isn't necessarily following the comics for character development but it makes me sad that the only male POC is the big baddie.  

Well, he's not the only male POC. There is Reggie/Ross Butler, and he seems to be a good guy. Not that I don't get the worry, because I really do. I liked Chuck in the comics, so it's a shame they've turned him into a bad guy here. 

[RealFantasies]

10 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

 

I'm fine with Jughead being sour about his birthday. I think he explained it at the beginning of the episode to Archie, and he did try to fake it for a while. I'm kind of with Jughead; when I say something, I tend to mean it so Jughead being a little upset at Betty throwing him a party reminded me of myself. It was nice that she only invited inner circle, before Cheryl/Chuck showed up. I do think she meant well, but I can't blame Jughead for not being over the moon about it.

Jughead really is good with Betty. They have their fights, but they end up communicating and understanding each other. I do hope the show recognizes the true chemistry with Archie/Veronica and Betty/Jughead and go there instead of forcing a love triangle...or love square. You know what I appreciate about this show? The girls aren't just there to listen to the boys' mainpain. Betty isn't just supportive; she gets to vent about her life and Jughead listens, like this episode. And Veronica got to interject with her own family drama while Archie listened to her here. Thinking about it, it doesn't happen too often on other shows, not in the way they do it here.

The issue with Chuck is he's been in two episodes, that's it, and suddenly he's the worst person on this show, or something. All the other guys were part of the sexual conquests yet Chuck is the only one punished for it. His appearances don't match up to him being this monster like the show is portraying. Hell, Betty almost killed the guy and she's supposed to look like the hero (and Betty's my favourite character). Not that Chuck isn't an asshole, but he seems to be written only to be an asshole. 

JP is by far the second most interesting adult on the show. Obviously, Alice is the first. Basically, the Jones and Cooper families are the ones I'm most interested in. I like Veronica and I like Hermione, and I do think Camilla is the best actress on the show, but I'm oddly more attached to Betty. But yeah, now Alice is an ex Serpent? That's a very interesting development. Hopefully, JP and Alice are the two adults who make it through all of this mess. 

Well, he's not the only male POC. There is Reggie/Ross Butler, and he seems to be a good guy. Not that I don't get the worry, because I really do. I liked Chuck in the comics, so it's a shame they've turned him into a bad guy here. 

I agree with everything you said here, particularly the part on how the female characters are allowed to vent or focus on internal struggles that have nothing to do with the men in their lives, but I'm gonna have to cry foul on that last part. When's the last time we saw Reggie? The two scenes he had the most presence in, he was 1) Bullying Jughead and then picking a fight that Archie had to end, and 2) Getting in Archie's face because they had to battle it out for the team captain position. Chuck's the only black male we've seen in Riverdale aside from Pops or Weatherbee and we barely see them. Doily (the only other MoC on campus) has been done a great disservice, he's supposed to be an incredibly intelligent inventor  and friend to Betty and the guys but he's been repainted as a "psychopath" that likes to play with guns who've we seen all of three times in ten episodes. And even then, he was just used to further a plot-point. "I, too, saw Archie at Sweetwater River that morning".

Edited April 14, 2017 by RealFantasies

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, RealFantasies said:

When's the last time we saw Reggie? The two scenes he had the most presence in, he was 1) Bullying Jughead and then picking a fight that Archie had to end, and 2) Getting in Archie's face because they had to battle it out for the team captain position. Chuck's the only black male we've seen in Riverdale aside from Pops or Weatherbee and we barely see them. Doily (the only other MoC on campus) has been done a great disservice, he's supposed to be an incredibly intelligent inventor  and friend to Betty and the guys but he's been repainted as a "psychopath" that likes to play with guns who've we seen all of three times in ten episodes. 

Oh yeah, totally not saying that Reggie's some major character that has an importance on the show overall. I was just speaking about the point made about Chuck being the ONLY male POC on the show being a bad guy. I was just pointing out that he wasn't the only male POC, even if Reggie's barely been around. And compared to Chuck, Reggie isn't all that bad. He's a jerk, sure, but Archie's been a jerk, Veronica/Betty have been jerks, and so has Jughead. Oh yeah, and Doiley, who I shouldn't have forgotten about either. 

[RealFantasies]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

Oh yeah, totally not saying that Reggie's some major character that has an importance on the show overall. I was just speaking about the point made about Chuck being the ONLY male POC on the show being a bad guy. I was just pointing out that he wasn't the only male POC, even if Reggie's barely been around. 

Right, I see what you're saying. I was just stating that the other MoC on campus either aren't shown or painted in a negative light, as well. Chuck's had the most screentime in comparison to Pops or Weatherbee, but he's the villian. I honestly just wish they had casted Chuck as white, there's too many glaring negative stereotypes to wade through otherwise.

[memememe76]

I like Chuck. As a character. Not every villain has to be some snarky jokester with a witty put down. I like how he brings out Betty's bad side. She was so checking him out. And the actor is very charismatic. I personally don't think his character has done anything that prevents him from being "redeemed",  although I have no need for him to become Chuck Bass or Damon Salvatore. 

[UNOSEZ]

I do like that chuck brings out dark Betty and yeah she was mos def checking him out.. I'm all good keeping chuck a villian or a thorn in the side I just want a little depth and then at least some blowback on Betty and veronica for sexually harassing him. That would be hilarious 

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Chuck being a handsomely privileged douche, who was rightfully punished for his actions by his own father, after being almost killed by a mentally ill white girl and her accomplices for which they were never were held accountable is "expendable" and is treated like a perpetual pariah despite apologizing to at least one former victims is somehow a bridge too far?

In fairness, I don't agree with combining Chuck's punishment for sexually harassing with the assault by Betty and Veronica because it implies that Chuck was somehow a complete victim  who did nothing wrong. He was slutshaming girls who spurned his advances, he was lying about their reputations and using his power as hot shit football to avoid consequences. If he was suspended from school, then he wasn't just punished by his dad (who if we're going to pretend this is reality, really was condoning the boys and their "ME STUD YOU WHORE" games with the girls in the school) and he wasn't the ONLY one punished either. I seem to recall an ominous end scene where Jughead narrates how various people including Chuck got into trouble and that there were terrible consequences for all that stem from that.

I also don't see Chuck as a complete innocent little school boy in the hot tub assault. If the CW wanted to be controversial (which I doubt) then there would be someone one pointing out how Chuck dressed for a smoking hot date, and got into the tub willingly and should have been more careful... much the way a female rape victim who dressed a bit hot is the slut that Chuck claims, and is the slut who got into the hot tub and what did she really think this was about? The fact that no one cares that poor Chuck was assaulted to a certain extent is because Chuck has hardly been sympathetic to his victims.

I actually agree with you that what Betty and Veronica did deserves punishment of the legal kind because it was basically date rape and assault. I just don't agree that their lack of punishment (which is shitty writing) means that Chuck did nothing worthy of punishment when he was slutshaming various girls and lying about their sexual activity. He was still totally in the wrong, and suspension from school and being kicked off the team is fair and just punishment for what *he* did.

I also disagree that he's a pariah. He's back in school what, a day? And he's already in Cheryl's inner circle, and going to keggers and merrily asserting publically that his accuser Betty is batshit. He's hardly contrite, he's not sad and disappointed in himself or understanding how badly he hurt the many girls other than Betty and Veronica... He's pissed that he got caught and now won't get a scholarship to Notre Dame... not because of his own behavior, oh fuck no, it's because the sluts all bitched and there was evidence Daddy and the school couldn't ignore because he plays football.

I also don't think his apology to Ethel was sincere since the ominous voice over in the last episode he was in clearly stated that Chuck being punished led to tragic consequences. Also lets be honest, did he seem in any way genuinely sorry?

Edited April 14, 2017 by ZoloftBlob

[Mabinogia]

8 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

He's pissed that he got caught and now won't get a scholarship to Notre Dame... not because of his own behavior, oh fuck no, it's because the sluts all bitched and there was evidence Daddy and the school couldn't ignore because he plays football.

He killed me with his saying it was there fault for making him confess to something he did. Um, no, Chuck, you lost everything because you did the thing they got you to confess to. Had you not participated in the slut book you would still be playing football. I don't for a second think he feels any guilt for what he did, or he wouldn't have been so keen to get vengeance and join Cheryl's little party bashing scheme.

I adore Bughead. I love that they had an issue, a pretty big one, and in the end they worked through it. And yay for FP telling him to man up and go back to Betty. It is always great to see two characters deal with their problems instead of just running off and making out with someone else *cough* Archie *cough*.

That said, I am full on board with Archie and Veronica pairing up. I like their growing relationship, even if it stays a friendship, I like him when he is around her. I like her around him. I think they actually bring out the best side of each other.

I would be happy if ep one was the beginning and end of the dreaded Triangle and the show goes with Bughead and Verchie. Both pairs have good chemistry and storyline potential. Both pairs have enough built in angst to not need a triangle.

This was a good episode. The show was kind of starting to drag a little for me, but this ep had some good stuff going on. Really intrigued by the reveal that Alice is from the "wrong side of the tracks". That has some serious potential. I also like that the adult storylines (except the adult Lodges who bore me) are as interesting as the kids.

[Dee]

I'll be so glad when the show finally breaks up Bughead. I'm beyond tired of the incessant chip he has on his shoulder and her neurotic hypocrisy.

[UNOSEZ]

Chuck has been a dick tho before that episode we saw no evidence of the slut shaming.. Even in the episode I saw mainly teenage boys maybe exaggerating what type of sexual conquests they'd had we're led to believe they are lies so ill assume some were but to my knowledge and I may be wrong wasn't the book a secret like just for the football team guys??..now what chuck did to Ronnie that deserves a smack and if Ronnie were my sister or cousin he and I would have words... And I'm guessing thats why he was suspended and kicked off because the book itself is basically gossip and I'm sure in that school he couldnt have been the only person doing that

[rmontro]

This show is like a bad soap opera written by a 14 year old.  Which I find highly entertaining.

"That was haunting, Betty" was the best line of the night.  Betty can bring the crazy, even unintentionally, apparently.

I would have never guessed this going in, but Veronica appears to be the most normal person on this show.

I like that Archie is the most boring character.  I think they should just have him do his man whore thing in the background while everybody else drives the story.

[ottoDbusdriver]

22 hours ago, ybrik said:

The whole dance/cheer off not sure what else to say except thank you Riverdale.

Veronica was all kinds of hot in that dance-off -- thanks show producers.

I found it strange that they played Sins and Secrets just because Cheryl said so -- she didn't hold a gun to anyone's head, all she did was lock one door. Plus it wasn't her house so Archie could have just told her to GTFO anytime.
 

[secnarf]

55 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Chuck has been a dick tho before that episode we saw no evidence of the slut shaming.. Even in the episode I saw mainly teenage boys maybe exaggerating what type of sexual conquests they'd had we're led to believe they are lies so ill assume some were but to my knowledge and I may be wrong wasn't the book a secret like just for the football team guys??..now what chuck did to Ronnie that deserves a smack and if Ronnie were my sister or cousin he and I would have words... And I'm guessing thats why he was suspended and kicked off because the book itself is basically gossip and I'm sure in that school he couldnt have been the only person doing that

Are you kidding?!

The book and the whole maple thing with Veronica are just two examples of him slut shaming. Frankly, whether the entries in the book are lies or not is irrelevant. It also doesn't matter if the book was only meant for the guys on the football team. Also, I'm sure you're correct that he wasn't the only person in school doing this, but that doesn't make it anywhere close to acceptable. It just means a lot of people escaped punishment that they fully deserve.

I don't think Chuck has been used well as a character, but the way he has been portrayed is as a pretty awful human being. That doesn't mean it was okay for B & V to chain him in the hot tub and all of that, but it does mean that - racial overtones aside - I don't feel particularly bad about it.

[RealFantasies]

55 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Chuck has been a dick tho before that episode we saw no evidence of the slut shaming.

Veronica went out with Chuck around episode 3, I'd say. They had a nice time but all they did, physically speaking, was make out. The next day he had captioned the selfie he took of them saying Veronica enjoyed her "sticky maple". Now, despite the CW's censorship, it was pretty clear what "sticky maple" insinuated, and all the guys promptly started heckling Veronica for her perceived sexual history. That's slut-shaming.

 

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

 

 

That said, I am full on board with Archie and Veronica pairing up. I like their growing relationship, even if it stays a friendship, I like him when he is around her. I like her around him. I think they actually bring out the best side of each other.

This was a good episode. The show was kind of starting to drag a little for me, but this ep had some good stuff going on. Really intrigued by the reveal that Alice is from the "wrong side of the tracks". That has some serious potential. I also like that the adult storylines (except the adult Lodges who bore me) are as interesting as the kids.

Veronica and Archie really do bring out the best in each other, be it as friends or a future pairing, and I think that was clear from their "7 minutes in heaven" kiss in the Pilot episode. Betty and Archie don't have anywhere near that type of chemistry, so please don't go there, show.

The way they have fleshed out Alice is one of the more impressive bouts of writing for this show. More of that please.

[opus]

 Betty wouldn't have known when Jughead's birthday was?

[Craphole Island]

I've said it before but I NEED Neve Campbell to pop up as Jughead's mom.

[methodwriter85]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I still don't know if I like what they're doing with Cheryl. She still feels more uneven in terms of her characterization, rather than her just having complex layers. Some episodes, she's this over the top villain, like she was here. But then other episodes has her helping the gang and being nice to them. I feel like the show doesn't know what side they want Cheryl on, so they just have her alternating, depending on the theme of the episode. The actress is wonderful, but the writing for Cheryl is all over the place. So I'm not really on board with Cheryl like others.

I'm fine with Jughead being sour about his birthday. I think he explained it at the beginning of the episode to Archie, and he did try to fake it for a while. I'm kind of with Jughead; when I say something, I tend to mean it so Jughead being a little upset at Betty throwing him a party reminded me of myself. It was nice that she only invited inner circle, before Cheryl/Chuck showed up. I do think she meant well, but I can't blame Jughead for not being over the moon about it.

I haven't been that on-board with Cheryl, either. I don't think they've decided yet if Cheryl is supposed to be a Cordelia (bitch with layers) or a Benny in Pretty in Pink (straight-up bitch.) I'm also not really impressed with her line readings. I was glad that Veronica turned her little game on her.

Jughead is a loner slowly being dragged into an inner circle. I feel like that's going to chafe on him no matter what.

[UNOSEZ]

Juggy  rubbed me the wrong way with his whole I'm weird speech... Like dude you have friends.. And those friends have friends who also seem to care about you... Get over yourself 

[memememe76]

Well, Jughead has to deal with it if he wants to still with Betty. Betty was friends with Kevin long before she dated Jughead, so he will have to deal with having him present in his life. Same for Veronica. Betty/Kevin >>> Bughead. Betty/Veronica >>>> Bughead. 

[Zanne]

On 4/13/2017 at 6:59 PM, bettername2come said:

Archie, stop making terrible choices. Don't let evil in just because it brought kegs.

Guests should always bring a host(ess) gift so at least evil has manners.

[Snookums]

Quote

But they should at least flesh out Josie and Melody and maybe show us where Reggie's being locked away before introducing any new blood.

Josie at least had one storyline, but Silent Melody and Invisible Reggie definitely need some kind of SOMETHING. It's actually more insulting and tonedeaf on the part of the showrunners to cast POC and do absolutely nothing with them than to just whitewash. It's to the point where I'm expecting various characters to start asking each other when was the last time they actually saw Reggie, or if they've ever heard Melody speak, and conclude they are ghosts (which would actually be awesome.)

As for Chuck, the actor is fabulous as that purring big cat who, even after he's experienced some *gasp* repercussions from his actions (and Chuck? You can either keep a horrible slam book of lies about your conquests, or you can lie on social media, but you cannot do both and not get found out) still just expects everybody and everything to lie down beneath his feet, and I agree it's actually refreshing to see a POC play a villain without apology. It's hard for a soapy, out there show to go as over the top as it needs to without bumping up against some bad racial overtones, but the show acknowledging them would go a long way. Chuck calling out Dark Betty at least showed that the incident wasn't forgotten, even though he did it in the grossest and most humiliating way possible for Betty. Ugh.

Loved Veronica both for her twincest callout and the specific way she did it: how she pointed out that it was Cheryl who was feeling the "bad" love for Jason and it was creeping Jason right the heck out, to the point where part of what he was fleeing in Riverdale was his sibling's grasping, smothering love. Being called a human kudzu vine, with all the desperation, specifically, that that entails, is what really put Cheryl back on her heels. I'm sure her self-dramatizing personality would encourage, rather than not, rumors of her and Jason's "bond" being...extra-special (any publicity is good publicity for Cheryl's whackadoo psyche) but to be called just a desperate clingy loser who was suckering onto her popular brother like a Sadness Leech hit way too close. 

Betty and Jughead, sittin' in a tree...amidst all the bizarre craziness, these two are doing a great job of showing that even though you are a good person, you aren't a perfect person. Betty is loyal, honest and true, but her intensity and need to create projects out of her emotions can spiral past what her loved one actually wants. Jughead has indeed had a pretty brutal time of it for a very long time, and he is a weirdo, but that's also a pose he has consciously struck, and groomed, and now has turned into a somewhat bratty fallback position. It takes both of them a while to realize that the other person's problems are just that--real problems, not simply a diminished reflection of their own troubles, even after both of them have had up close and personal displays of the depth of the damage in their families. 

Archie and Veronica's chaste sleeping arrangements were so darling! Archie can and does show thoughtfulness; he just needs to get that you need to do that even when it's goes against what you personally want; like, don't try to talk to your ex just because you have drunken sads over why she broke up with you. It's not her job to reassure you.

[truthaboutluv]

FYI, regarding Reggie, I've read that the show runners have explained that his limited screentime so far was because the actor was filming 13 Reasons Why around the same time. They didn't want to lose him because they think he's perfect for the part, which is a good sign, so they just worked around it. They have promised viewers will see more of him. The only thing that may be a problem is that with all the buzz 13 Reasons Why has gotten, some think Netflix may give it a second season, even if the series was based on a book and a premise that makes a second season seem kind of pointless. 

[Dee]

1 hour ago, Snookums said:

Josie at least had one storyline, but Silent Melody and Invisible Reggie definitely need some kind of SOMETHING. It's actually more insulting and tonedeaf on the part of the showrunners to cast POC and do absolutely nothing with them than to just whitewash. It's to the point where I'm expecting various characters to start asking each other when was the last time they actually saw Reggie, or if they've ever heard Melody speak, and conclude they are ghosts (which would actually be awesome.)

At this point Josie and Reggie have been MIA so long I'm expecting their next appearance to be on the side of a milk carton.

[VCRTracking]

The actor who plays Chuck was a guest on the AfterBuzz recap of the episode. Of course like of actors who plays douchebags seems like a nice guy IRL. He said he came up with some personal backstory of why he treats the opposite sex so badly is he has issues with his mom!

I didn't know when Veronica was speaking Spanish and called Jughead "Torombolo" that that was they called Jughead in the Spanish translation of the comics! Nice inside joke:

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

I didn't know when Veronica was speaking Spanish and called Jughead "Torombolo" that that was they called Jughead in the Spanish translation of the comics! Nice inside joke:

It's weird though because "torombolo" means plump or pot-bellied.  Why would Veronica call him that?  Maybe because her Spanish is really bad?

[jay741982]

10 hours ago, memememe76 said:

Well, Jughead has to deal with it if he wants to still with Betty. Betty was friends with Kevin long before she dated Jughead, so he will have to deal with having him present in his life. Same for Veronica. Betty/Kevin >>> Bughead. Betty/Veronica >>>> Bughead. 

Betty and Jughead were friends long before Veronica came in their lives

[tgrfan23]

11 hours ago, Craphole Island said:

I've said it before but I NEED Neve Campbell to pop up as Jughead's mom.

I'm hoping for Holly Marie Combs, personally. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

12 hours ago, opus said:

 Betty wouldn't have known when Jughead's birthday was?

Since Jughead made a point of not celebrating his birthday and indeed of avoiding celebrating it, it seems reasonable (or at least plausible) that Betty would not have known when Jughead's birthday was.

[peachmangosteen]

On 4/14/2017 at 3:26 AM, ChocoGal said:

lol at valerie going to party just to bitch at archie 

I love her lol!

I enjoyed the hell outta this episode. This show just hits all my entertainment buttons pretty consistently.

I am suddenly into Archie/Veronica. Ever since the last ep I've been finally liking Archie and I really liked their scene in this ep. They have a really nice, easy chem. I really hope the show just completely abandons the triangle and goes for Archie/Veronica and Betty/Jughead. I actually think they might go that way.

I am conflicted on Chuck. I mean if he's never seen again I won't really care, but I do like the dynamics he brings out, especially with Betty.

I'm gonna need FP and Alice to have a seedy affair asap. 

[PeekaBoo]

2 hours ago, tgrfan23 said:

I'm hoping for Holly Marie Combs, personally. 

Omg.  Yes and yes!!  Make her less pretty and she would be fine   

31 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I am suddenly into Archie/Veronica. Ever since the last ep I've been finally liking Archie and I really liked their scene in this ep. They have a really nice, easy chem. I really hope the show just completely abandons the triangle and goes for Archie/Veronica and Betty/Jughead. I actually think they might go that way.

I am conflicted on Chuck. I mean if he's never seen again I won't really care, but I do like the dynamics he brings out, especially with Betty.

I'm gonna need FP and Alice to have a seedy affair asap. 

I hate Chuck and hope he dissapears from Riverdale world but love the way he managed to push Bettys buttons. If there's anyone that can bring forth Dark Betty, it might be him... 

Ouh. An Fp and alice hookup... Now that i would be in for.... maybe theyve had that already??? Now that we know those two knew eachother before, could it be tied in with the abortion alice had? 

[peachmangosteen]

4 minutes ago, PeekaBoo said:

An Fp and alice hookup... Now that i would be in for.... maybe theyve had that already??? Now that we know those two knew eachother before, could it be tied in with the abortion alice had? 

Yea, I think the people speculating that they hooked up and that it might have resulted in an abortion might be right. Still, if they did have an affair already they need to have another one!

[PeekaBoo]

16 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yea, I think the people speculating that they hooked up and that it might have resulted in an abortion might be right. Still, if they did have an affair already they need to have another one!

Most definitely???

[jay741982]

1 hour ago, PeekaBoo said:

Omg.  Yes and yes!!  Make her less pretty and she would be fine   

I hate Chuck and hope he dissapears from Riverdale world but love the way he managed to push Bettys buttons. If there's anyone that can bring forth Dark Betty, it might be him... 

Ouh. An Fp and alice hookup... Now that i would be in for.... maybe theyve had that already??? Now that we know those two knew eachother before, could it be tied in with the abortion alice had? 

With how Hal is I won't be surprised at all if FP and Alice had a fling that resulted in a baby that Hal forced her to abort. Wouldn't that be some shit if Betty and Jugheads Mon and Dad were together at one point . It could explain how Betty and Jughead have the attraction they have towards each other cause they have part of their parents in side them. Of course the fact that They could've shared a sibling would be weird. Man now theirs another reason to have a flashback episode with Cole and Lili I playing young FP and Alice  

Edited April 15, 2017 by jay741982

[jay741982]

I seen someone speculate that Betty might gonna dark and end up fucking Chuck. Which ew that's so gross. We already have way too tv relationships that sell POS Guys getting the girl is right when it's fucking gross. I think Dark Betty would murder Chuck before screwing him. She almost killed him for his behavior