S02.E17: Aruba

[squidprincess]

11 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Yeah. I just want confirmation that he's done for good. That audio interview I posted where he talked about actors who he knows not working did make me think he was done with Legends.

Hah, that's funny.  I heard it completely differently.  It had sounded to me like he was saying that he had the privilege of taking a vacation unlike those actors who didn't know when they'd be working next.  I'd gotten the impression that he did know when he'd be working again.  But that didn't necessarily mean he was talking about Legends, I suppose.

[Ashand11]

So Snart is really done then? This show just got a whole lot less interesting.  The only reason I even watched season 2 was because I was promised some Snart but he was barely even in it.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I just want to say THANK THE TEEVEE GODS that Thawne is finally for realsies DEADDEADDEAD. I seem to be the only one who couldn't stand his smug ass.

And now that I've said it, I fear I've jinxed it so he'll be back.?

I skimmed over what Guggenheim and the other EPs said about this finale and ?????at their overhyping and glee over saying how there would be all this "death." Because I have learned that ALL of them, across ALL the shows are LYING LIARS WHO LIE.

So I just sat back and relaxed while watching and didn't worry or angst over what would happen. And like others states over in the other forum, no matter what incarnation, Laurel can never shed the smug or narcissism.??

[TDT]

I doubt that's the last we'll see of Thawne..he might pop back up on The Flash before that show's season ends

Same with Damian and Malcolm over on Arrow..

as for appearances next season i wouldnt mind if the team were to run into a certain detective who dresses like a bat(although thanks to Affleck,Zack Snyder and Fox,that will probably never happen)..Berlanti is barely lucky he was able to get Superman to appear on Supergirl(story is that he almost had to beg DC's film division to let the character make an appearance)

[futurechemist]

I found the middle of the episode horribly confusing.  I couldn't keep track of who were past or future members.  I thought it would have been interesting if 1 or 2 of the "past" Legends were killed so the "future" Legends had to take their place complete with memories of Doomworld.  Sort of like how Mick has memories of being Kronos (when the writers remember it).

Also kind of disappointed that for all of Reverse Flash's previous characterization (he genuinely liked working at Star Labs, he just wants to stop himself from being erased), the finale boiled down to him becoming a cartoonish supervillain who just wanted to kill everyone.  And an army of speedsters couldn't grab the spear from Sara?

I don't see how Snart can come back in Season 3.  He had a character arc in season 1.  He died a heroic sacrifice.  Bringing him back this season as a villain from before his arc felt like a step backwards, albeit an entertaining one.

[Proteus]

15 minutes ago, Ashand11 said:

So Snart is really done then? This show just got a whole lot less interesting.  The only reason I even watched season 2 was because I was promised some Snart but he was barely even in it.

I doubt we ever see Wentworth Miller on this show again. Like everything, TPTB overhyped his role in season 2. I never bought their lies though. I knew something was fishy. He didn't bolt after season 1 just to turn around and have a substantial role in season 2.

 

46 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

Hah, that's funny.  I heard it completely differently.  It had sounded to me like he was saying that he had the privilege of taking a vacation unlike those actors who didn't know when they'd be working next.  I'd gotten the impression that he did know when he'd be working again.  But that didn't necessarily mean he was talking about Legends, I suppose.

It sounded to me like AD was saying he won't be working for the foreseeable future and has nothing lined up.

With WM and AD both gone for good, I have less and less reasons to watch this show. Sara & Mick are the only two left I really love.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Proteus

[Ashand11]

45 minutes ago, futurechemist said:

I found the middle of the episode horribly confusing.  I couldn't keep track of who were past or future members.  I thought it would have been interesting if 1 or 2 of the "past" Legends were killed so the "future" Legends had to take their place complete with memories of Doomworld.  Sort of like how Mick has memories of being Kronos (when the writers remember it).

Also kind of disappointed that for all of Reverse Flash's previous characterization (he genuinely liked working at Star Labs, he just wants to stop himself from being erased), the finale boiled down to him becoming a cartoonish supervillain who just wanted to kill everyone.  And an army of speedsters couldn't grab the spear from Sara?

I don't see how Snart can come back in Season 3.  He had a character arc in season 1.  He died a heroic sacrifice.  Bringing him back this season as a villain from before his arc felt like a step backwards, albeit an entertaining one.

Not to mention that Sarah didn't recite that phrase to use it so how did the spear work? Safe to say that I won't be watching next season. Snart was the best character and Im pretty sure the most well like so it was incredibly stupid for them to kill him off. Its weird they chose Snart to kill but not Rory.  Purcell was only even on the show because Miller brought him in.

[Proteus]

Miller didn't want to be on the show longer than one season. That's why they killed him off.

[Featherhat]

8 minutes ago, Ashand11 said:

Not to mention that Sarah didn't recite that phrase to use it so how did the spear work? Safe to say that I won't be watching next season. Snart was the best character and Im pretty sure the most well like so it was incredibly stupid for them to kill him off. Its weird they chose Snart to kill but not Rory.  Purcell was only even on the show because Miller brought him in.

Yes and then he asked to be let out. Nu!PrisonBreak is a loftier horizon. Apparently (hopefully for this show) it doesn't require a vast amount of Lincoln Burrows. I do think AD will be back in some capacity.

[Ashand11]

39 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Yes and then he asked to be let out. Nu!PrisonBreak is a loftier horizon. Apparently (hopefully for this show) it doesn't require a vast amount of Lincoln Burrows. I do think AD will be back in some capacity.

Oh I didn't know he asked to be released from the show.  Prison break is only one season so it seems weird, its not like he's booked solid.

[Proteus]

7 minutes ago, Ashand11 said:

Oh I didn't know he asked to be released from the show.  Prison break is only one season so it seems weird, its not like he's booked solid.

Miller didn't ask to be released. It was understood from the moment he agreed to do Legends that he'd only do it for one season.

[Ashand11]

35 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Miller didn't ask to be released. It was understood from the moment he agreed to do Legends that he'd only do it for one season.

Why was it understood?

[Proteus]

Miller only agreed to one season when asked to do the show.

Read this from last year:

http://deadline.com/2016/05/legends-of-tomorrow-wentworth-miller-exits-regular-berlanti-universe-1201751213/

[Starfish35]

I feel like I need to rewatch it again to clarify my thoughts.  I binge watched the last three back to back so it's all kind of running together. 

But a few things that jumped out at me.

There was a weird lack of Stein.  I wonder what was going on there.  Was Victor Garber's availability limited for some reason?

If you wanted to, you could make an argument that the timequake mess could all be blamed on Nate, since his delay with Amaya was the reason for the duplicates being discovered.  Lol.  But since Thawne knew about it, it probably would have happened one way or another anyway.

I still can't bring myself to care even remotely about the Nate/Amaya pairing, except for annoyance that we're still going to have to deal with it next year.  

Loved Ray's reaction to Mick's death and then...not. 

The cliffhanger, as many of you have already noted, is reminiscent of Doctor Who's The Wedding of River Song. 

[Sakura12]

I can't blame the writers when the actor doesn't want to stay. WM didn't want to commit to the show. Rip's not dead so I have a feeling he'll be back if Arthur Darvill is available.  

Sara did recite the phrase, just really softly. 

I did see Black Flash go to our Sara not future Sara who disappeared. I guess she did mess with time, but she's not a Speedster. Maybe that was a warning. 

[bmoore4026]

21 hours ago, Proteus said:

So worst fear came true. Rips gone. Sigh.

They probably didn't have enough money for Arthur Darvill.  Probably why they didn't use Firestorm that much.

Next season will probably take place in a high school gym or something.  Maybe the one the dance sequence from Grease took place in.

I actually had a problem with this season - I have I problem with a bunch of second and third stringers taking on a the combined might of a number of big bads from other shows.  The creators couldn't have cooked up a different set of villains?  Monarch?  Time Trapper?  Glorith?  Chronos?  Some other time based villain?  And if you're going to use the Legion of Doom, use the damn Legion of Doom.  Yeah, you can't use Lex Luthor or the Joker, but there were plenty others they could have used.  Black Manta.  Pied Piper.  Cheetah.  Giganta.  Cupid.  Solomon Grundy.  Sinestro.   Maybe bring back Captain Boomerang and Weather Wizard and Golden Glider.  Or the Royal Flush Gang.

God, the fanboy in me is really awake in me today.

I also took issue with the Waverider smashing into that building.  Too soon, show people.  Too soon.

Edited April 5, 2017 by bmoore4026
Because it's Cupid, not Valentine

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 hours ago, Ashand11 said:

Not to mention that Sarah didn't recite that phrase to use it so how did the spear work?

We saw that Sarah spent some time in what I'll call the Spear Force. :) She has communications with either actual Laurel or Spear Force Laurel. I'm not sure which. From this, it seems clear that the phrase that pays isn't the only way the spear's power works.

We also saw that Sarah did at least start to say the phrase that pays before Thawne grabbed the spear from her and monologued.

I'm not sure why we should be applauding that Sarah used the Spear's power as minimally as she could. I mean, she could have just as easily saved Laurel, eliminated the Legion and numerous other problems, created a romantic relationship with Nyssa and Oliver, ended world hunger and disease, undone any effects from the time storm, and THEN shut the spear's power off for good.

I know I should have seen the Laurel-pimping from a mile away and steeled myself to it, but meh.

[legaleagle53]

7 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

They probably didn't have enough money for Arthur Darvill.  Probably why they didn't use Firestorm that much.

Next season will probably take place in a high school gym or something.  Maybe the one the dance sequence from Grease took place in.

I actually had a problem with this season - I have I problem with a bunch of second and third stringers taking on a the combined might of a number of big bads from other shows.  The creators couldn't have cooked up a different set of villains?  Monarch?  Time Trapper?  Glorith?  Chronos?  Some other time based villain?  And if you're going to use the Legion of Doom, use the damn Legion of Doom.  Yeah, you can't use Lex Luthor or the Joker, but there were plenty others they could have used.  Black Manta.  Pied Piper.  Cheetah.  Giganta.  Valentine.  Solomon Grundy.  Sinestro.   Maybe bring back Captain Boomerang and Weather Wizard and Golden Glider.  Or the Royal Flush Gang.

Pied Piper reformed a number of years ago in the comics.  He's been a hero there for at least 30 years now (and he was also one of the first to come out as gay).

[bmoore4026]

1 minute ago, legaleagle53 said:

Pied Piper reformed a number of years ago in the comics.  He's been a hero there for at least 30 years now (and he was also one of the first to come out as gay).

Could have sworn he showed up on an episode of The Flash as a bad guy?

[legaleagle53]

Just now, bmoore4026 said:

Could have sworn he showed up on an episode of The Flash as a bad guy?

I was specifically talking about the comics.  I didn't watch the earlier seasons of The Flash, so I can't speak to that.

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

I actually had a problem with this season - I have I problem with a bunch of second and third stringers taking on a the combined might of a number of big bads from other shows.  The creators couldn't have cooked up a different set of villains?  Monarch?  Time Trapper?  Glorith?  Chronos?  Some other time based villain?  And if you're going to use the Legion of Doom, use the damn Legion of Doom.  Yeah, you can't use Lex Luthor or the Joker, but there were plenty others they could have used.  Black Manta.  Pied Piper.  Cheetah.  Giganta.  Valentine.  Solomon Grundy.  Sinestro.   Maybe bring back Captain Boomerang and Weather Wizard and Golden Glider.  Or the Royal Flush Gang.

One of the troubles with the season is that the Legion was not a legion. It was just a few dudes. Most of them didn't really have any powers to speak of. For whatever reason, Thawne takes versions of Malcolm Merlyn and Damien Dahrk that are handicapped. So they are just bad guys with guns. There's no reason that Steel, Firestorm or Atom should ever perceive them as threats. (Yes, I know that in this episode, Merlyn's hitting Firestorm with an arrow made him split back into Jax and Stein. That's by writer fiat. In any fair and realistic matchup, Firestorm would be able to hit Merlyn with a blast from well outside of arrow range.)

And then on the other end of the spectrum, there's no way that Eobard wouldn't be able to take most of the team out within a few seconds. Let alone him going out of his way to recruit dozens of himself. 

[KirkB]

1 minute ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

And then on the other end of the spectrum, there's no way that Eobard wouldn't be able to take most of the team out within a few seconds. Let alone him going out of his way to recruit dozens of himself. 

As much fun as Thawne was, that is why I questioned them using a speedster as their main villain. On any show but the Flash, who is just as fast, a speedster SHOULD be able to escape, outmaneuver or just plan kill anyone before they even know he's there. Even with him barely able to stay in one place for long for fear of Black Flash catching up to him, Thawne SHOULD have been virtually unstoppable. But then no speedster, villain or hero, is allowed to use their powers at optimum capacity, because there would be no show.

[legaleagle53]

5 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

One of the troubles with the season is that the Legion was not a legion. It was just a few dudes. Most of them didn't really have any powers to speak of. For whatever reason, Thawne takes versions of Malcolm Merlyn and Damien Dahrk that are handicapped. So they are just bad guys with guns. There's no reason that Steel, Firestorm or Atom should ever perceive them as threats. (Yes, I know that in this episode, Merlyn's hitting Firestorm with an arrow made him split back into Jax and Stein. That's by writer fiat. In any fair and realistic matchup, Firestorm would be able to hit Merlyn with a blast from well outside of arrow range.)

And then on the other end of the spectrum, there's no way that Eobard wouldn't be able to take most of the team out within a few seconds. Let alone him going out of his way to recruit dozens of himself. 

Yeah, that was a problem I had with the season.  Eobard was overpowered compared to the Legends, and Malcolm and Damien were underpowered in relation to both Eobard and the Legends.  The imbalance of power got tiresome.

[bmoore4026]

6 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

One of the troubles with the season is that the Legion was not a legion. It was just a few dudes. Most of them didn't really have any powers to speak of. For whatever reason, Thawne takes versions of Malcolm Merlyn and Damien Dahrk that are handicapped. So they are just bad guys with guns. There's no reason that Steel, Firestorm or Atom should ever perceive them as threats. (Yes, I know that in this episode, Merlyn's hitting Firestorm with an arrow made him split back into Jax and Stein. That's by writer fiat. In any fair and realistic matchup, Firestorm would be able to hit Merlyn with a blast from well outside of arrow range.)

And then on the other end of the spectrum, there's no way that Eobard wouldn't be able to take most of the team out within a few seconds. Let alone him going out of his way to recruit dozens of himself. 

I wouldn't have minded them bringing in the Legion of Super-Villains.  A bunch of dissatisfied "teenagers" and twentysomethings from a utopian future 900 years from now traveling back in time to our era to screw things up and make their home time period at little more chaotic?  It could work.  Plus, you could have more interactions with Supergirl characters.

[AD35]

10 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Could have sworn he showed up on an episode of The Flash as a bad guy?

When he first appeared on The Flash (tv show) in season 1, he was a bad guy.  But when Barry went back in time in a later season, the timeline he created resulted in him having his background changed.

[Princess Lucky]

A solid ending for a very solid season.

I have to applaud this show for having the guts to do what needed to be done to "correct" time. Most shows half-ass it, and they try to merge timelines, and memories, and it all ends up a mess (The Flash keeps doing that, we're expected to see Cisco and Caitlin and Iris as their "normal" versions, the ones we started watching years ago, when in reality they are not the same people, not post-Flashpoint). Meanwhile, Legends did what's right. They literally erased/killed the "aberrations", i.e. the characters we've been watching this whole time, because it was necessary. Going back in time means the timeline changes. End of story. That's how you do it. Plus they had a chance to do all those dramatic deaths. Win-win.

And the detail of returning the villains in their proper places, to ensure the "original" timeline still happens, that was the perfect touch. The writers tied up all the loose ends, in a surprisingly smart way. I'm impressed.

As always, though, I don't know how much of this is final. Is Eobard gone for good, from all the shows? (I'll miss him, Matt Letscher was amazing) Is Rip gone? I don't know the specifics (or AD's plans), but I agree that his exit right before a major catastrophe could have been a wink to the audience. "I taught you everything you need to know" except not really. I can't imagine the Legends not trying to find him, after what they saw in LA. Who else could help?

12 hours ago, bettername2come said:

The Legends have officially broken time worse than Barry Allen ever did. Say what you will about the man, he never unleashed dinosaurs on the world. I hope they get to hear some crap over it at least. I'll miss Rip.

I still think the Legends mostly break time for the greater good (mostly!), and they also make those decisions as a team. Whereas Barry decides on his own, and he's usually being 100% selfish (i.e. breaking time for his mom and Iris only, everyone else be damned). Hey, why not bring Rip to The Flash? Barry could use someone like him.

11 hours ago, dkb said:

Edit: Forgot to mention my favorite part: Ray reacting to Mick dying, and the real Mick reacting to that, and the "No hugging." That was funny and cute. Finally some Ray and Mick friendship that's been missing the last couple of episodes.

I loved that! I agreed with many comments in the threads of the previous episodes, the writers sort of forgot about that friendship. Fortunately we got these hilarious (and sweet) moments in the finale.

[Sakura12]

8 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I hope they eventually follow up on that cake-baking plotline.

Maybe that where Rip went to open a cake shop.

Rip happily making cakes when a dinosaur crashes into his shop. "Oh, bullocks" then goes to find the team to help them fix their latest screw up.

[darkestboy]

Good finale, preferred last season's but it ended things on an interesting note though.

I liked the way Eobard and company were disbanded/defeated and how they solved the Spear problem as well. Sara's brief scene with Laurel was great too.

Rip leaving, I was sad to see but I hope he comes back in some capacity next season though.

The gang certainly did royally mess up big time going by that last scene though, 8/10

[Primal Slayer]

Laurel did appear to be Spear Force Laurel. She was fully aware of everything that was happening and was more of an extension of Sara.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, Princess Lucky said:

Is Eobard gone for good, from all the shows?

With Rip gone and unfindable for the moment maybe the Legends haave to recruit an Eobard remnant as a time manipulation expert.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, bmoore4026 said:

Could have sworn he showed up on an episode of The Flash as a bad guy?

He appeared in S1 as a bad guy, but IIRC, he did a heel-face turn because of Barry's time traveling. 

[Starfish35]

Regarding the Sara/Laurel scene, it was a good scene.  I took the "I know" to be in reply to Sara saying "I'm damaged", but that that it didn't keep her from using the spear.  What I'm not sure of is if we were supposed to take it as being actual Laurel, as in her spirit, or some sort of "Spear Force" manifestation.  I think Sara, at least, believes the former, because of what she said to Damien at the end.  

Oddly, KC looked more like her Arrow S1 self than I've seen her look in a long time.  I'm not sure if it was the hair or the makeup or what, but it actually was distracting me a little bit during the scene, trying to figure out what was different.

Regarding the ending, yeah, I flinched when the Waverider sheared off the top of that skyscraper.  I was like, wow, how many people did they just kill right there? :(

[Lady Calypso]

Usually, when an actor leaves a show for good, they do an exit interview, right? I'm wondering why Arthur Darvill hasn't yet. I think it's giving me too much false hope in that he will be returning next season. His exit scene was definitely definite so there should not be any doubt that he won't be a full time cast member.

I do hate that he feels like he has no purpose on the team. He's the one to keep getting through to Sara, to remind her that she's not all darkness and that he still believes in her. He's been there for her through a lot of her darkness and I am seriously going to miss their scenes together. I think Rip could have really been a great first hand man to her captain, and he has the knowledge about time that the others simply don't have. Nate, on the other hand, is simply just copying only a portion of Gideon's skills and he's now too distracted with Amaya, so he could go at any time and they could bring on another character that provides something. 

17 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Oddly, KC looked more like her Arrow S1 self than I've seen her look in a long time.  I'm not sure if it was the hair or the makeup or what, but it actually was distracting me a little bit during the scene, trying to figure out what was different.

I noticed that her hair had more bounce and life than usual. Her curly hair did give me season 1 vibes. If it had been darker, I would have sworn they were trying to emulate season 1 Laurel. KC didn't even do a bad job with her cameo. She seems to work best with people not named Stephen Amell. 

[Starfish35]

6 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Usually, when an actor leaves a show for good, they do an exit interview, right?

Not necessarily, but in my experience there usually is some sort of confirmation from the EPs or whoever that the actor has left the show.   

We might know at the upfronts next month, if he's left off the cast list for next season. 

For me it just seemed weird that Rip would walk away and leave Gideon.  I mean, yeah, ok, he was trapped on the ship for a year.  Maybe he needs a break.  But I find it hard to believe he would just walk away from the ship and Gideon permanently, after all they've been through together.

[dippydee]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'm not sure why we should be applauding that Sarah used the Spear's power as minimally as she could. I mean, she could have just as easily saved Laurel, eliminated the Legion and numerous other problems, created a romantic relationship with Nyssa and Oliver, ended world hunger and disease, undone any effects from the time storm, and THEN shut the spear's power off for good.

They're already really bad at the whole keeping the timeline intact thing and I f Sara tried to sit around and actually wish those things and minimise any unwanted repercussions it would probably have taken the whole episode for her to work it all out. I applaud her attempt to minimise the disruption to the universe, y'know it's the least she could do after she's already created all those timequakes and whatnot by taking them all back to 1916 again.

I can't believe this became my favourite DC show but it's so freaking entertaining. Once I learned to put away any search for logic or reasoning I've really come to appreciate the fun of it all. Everyone actually enjoyed the crazy shit they get to do (with minimal angst for the most part), the villains felt genuinely villainous and the finale set up a perfect plot for next season as they try to fix the giant mess the my made. Plus there were dinosaurs in LA! Who doesn't love dinos? Amaya's going to make lots of new friends.

[tennisgurl]

I know the Legends did majorly break time, but I will but them a little more slack then Barry. Barry broke time trying to save his mom (which is understandable, but still self centered),while the Legends were trying to save the world from supervillains. They still screwed up, but they were at least trying to do the right thing. I was also quite sad seeing the Doomverse Legends die, even if they were time aberrations. They were still the characters we`ve followed, and they still all died, even if we still get other the main versions of them.

You know, this show is really great at doing friendships, but kind of sucks at actual romances. I like Amaya and I like Nate, but I don't really care about them as a couple. I don't really dislike them or anything, I just don't feel much of an attachment to them. Its kind of like Kendra/Ray last season. I didn't dislike the characters, but the romance just never really worked. On the other hand, I am so on board the Rip/Sara ship, even if Rip decided to leave. Its like if they try to write a romance, it just flails around, while when a romance grows organically from a friendship, it actually works. Rip and Sara just seemed to really get each other, and had endless faith that the other one was a good person no matter what happened. They never pushed it as a Big Romance, it just happened naturally. It would just really suck to let that go.

It just seems so weird to me that they would have Rip just leave, after spending so much time trying to find him, get him back to normal, and help him find his place on the team, if he was just going to leave? I appreciate that they didn't kill him or leave him brainwashed and evil, but it seemed like a pretty definite ending, at least for him as a regular. Its just depressing that he still thought he had no place on the team, which isn't at all true. He could be a great right hand for Sara, with his knowledge of time travel, and experience in the field. But maybe they're just screwing with us, and he comes back next season, who knows? But if not, its still a real downer. Not as much of a downer as Snart dying last season, but it still sucks. Maybe he just wants to try to live a life outside of being a time traveler after everything? I can kind of see that, but even then, it would only be temporary. His team clearly needs an adult.

I really enjoyed seeing the doubles interacting with each other, like the two Micks almost getting into a fight, the "oh bollocks" reactions of the two Rips, and the attempts of the Doomworld Legends at trying to be stealthy. "...What's a little radiation to one half of fire storm, huh?" Dorks. I was even happy to see Laurel again, even though I never really cared for her. It was still a nice scene, and it was a good moment for Sara, although I do keep rolling my eyes at people going on about how awesome Laurel was. I was just watching season two of Arrow, and Laurel comes off as quite unlikable, especially compared to most everyone else. Oh well, it was nice to give her a better send off then her stupid death scene, or the alien stuff. Even I thought she deserved better at this point.

[Starfish35]

4 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

You know, this show is really great at doing friendships, but kind of sucks at actual romances.

I've found this is pretty much true for all the Flarrowverse shows (though YMMV). 

[ohjoy]

10 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

For me it just seemed weird that Rip would walk away and leave Gideon.  I mean, yeah, ok, he was trapped on the ship for a year.  Maybe he needs a break.  But I find it hard to believe he would just walk away from the ship and Gideon permanently, after all they've been through together.

The Rip that left at the end wasn't the one who had been trapped on the ship with only Gideon for a year. This Rip didn't have that experience, because the Legends kept the Spear of Destiny from being used by the Legion. This is the Rip that only recently got his head back on straight -- which actually makes it odder that he'd leave Gideon since it's also been only a couple of episodes since he made out with her in his mind. But I'm assuming she's still connected to the jump ship he planned to steal take, right?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Every time I see the title of this finale, my mind goes to the Beach Boys' "Back to Kokomo." ?? And now I can't get the song out of my head.

And a truly lone and unpopular opinion-but I don't think Barry going back to be with his parents and was out of some EVUHL and dastardly plan or intentions. I would like it if his name would stop being pulled out and used like a red flag because other things happened that don't go well for the heroes across all shows, but I know that won't happen. Barry seems to be everyone's favorite punching bag. I don't mind sitting at my table for one.

Edited April 5, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[Starfish35]

3 minutes ago, RandomMe said:

The Rip that left at the end wasn't the one who had been trapped on the ship with only Gideon for a year. This Rip didn't have that experience, because the Legends kept the Spear of Destiny from being used by the Legion. This is the Rip that only recently got his head back on straight -- which actually makes it odder that he'd leave Gideon since it's also been only a couple of episodes since he made out with her in his mind. But I'm assuming she's still connected to the jump ship he planned to steal take, right?

Oh that's right...I got confused. Lol. 

But yes, still weird that he would leave Gideon.  IS she connected to the jump ship? I didn't think so, but maybe so.

[Sakura12]

No one said Barry was evil for going back in time to save his parents. It was understandable but selfish. The Legends were trying to save the entire world from being run by the villains. That a huge difference for me. 2 family members vs the fate of the whole world. I know it's Barry's show but they keep making him break time to save people he cares about. If it was someone else's love he would not care at all about trying to save them. That makes him look selfish, not heroic. 

They both had consequences and screwed up time and it looks like Sara is on Black Flash's radar despite not being a Speedster. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Sakura12

[feverfew]

Okay. That was okay. Happy thoughts first: I loved that Mick saved the day and that everybody but Sara post-Doomsworld were killed (I don't mean I was happy they were killed, but it was funny that Sara didn't get Kenny'd this episode). I liked the cameo of Laurel, both because I like the actress when she's out of wooden Amell's orbit and because it finally gave Sara some closure. I love the fact that the Legends broke time (dinosaurs!) even if it's terribly reminiscent of Doctor Who.

But. As I said in the spoiler thread, no Rip is my dealbreaker. I'll stick with this board over the summer to see what's what and maybe I'll change my mind if they tempt me back with some great guest actors (bring Jonah Hex and Constantine on board for a few episodes, and I'll be there), but as of right now, this is my last LoT episode. I hate, hate, hate it when a character is sacrified to prop up other characters, and it feels a bit like they did that with Sara and Rip (they definitely did that with Nate and Ray/Mick). My favourite relationship on the Waverider was Sara/Rip so I'm devastated. Bollocks!

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Every time I see the title of this finale, my mind goes to the Beach Boys' "Back to Kokomo." ?? And now I can't get the song out of my head.

And a truly lone and unpopular opinion-but I don't think Barry going back to be with his parents and was out of some EVUHL and dastardly plan or intentions. I would like it if his name would stop being pulled out and used like a red flag because other things happened that don't go well for the heroes across all shows, but I know that won't happen. Barry seems to be everyone's favorite punching bag. I don't mind sitting at my table for one.

C'mon, pretty mama! :)

I don't think Barry's going back in time to try to save his mom, or his going back in time to save his mom and dad and creating Flashpoint were evil. They were just incredibly short-sighted, selfish and unheroic.

Barry's first going back in time for parental rescue was guided by Thawne and required a level of trust of him, which in and of itself was a huge mistake. But even trusting Thawne, the way he described it made it sound like a fairly big longshot (have to run faster than ever before, collide with a particle in the accelerator just so, beat a version of Thawne solo when Barry had not done so ever before, do all this within a limited time frame of like a minute and a half). And then if he failed to have all these pieces fall into place, there could be chaos. 

Barry's second going back in time was at least more controlled by him. But he knew enough about time travel to know that he shouldn't mess with it.

[tennisgurl]

As much as I never got into Nate/Amaya that much, I at least like them more then Kendra/Ray, mainly because at least Nate and Amaya seem to be on the same page as far as romance goes, while I always felt like Ray liked Kendra WAY more then she liked him. I think she cared about him and liked him a lot, but he was mainly a nice guy who was around when she needed someone, who she dumped pretty much the second Carter became an option again, while Ray really fell hard for her. I'm reminded of when they got rescued from the 60s, after being basically married for quite awhile, and Kendra immediately was ready to forget it ever happened, while Ray felt more ambivalent about going back to the future, because he had actually built a life there with Kendra. Not that I blame her for not wanting to stay in the past, but it really came off that he was just a cover to her, while he really fell in love with her. And that was coming right off of his relationship with Felicity falling apart, which fell apart at least partially because she was still in love with Oliver, who she got together with soon after, and who was still rather in love with him when she got together with Ray in the first place. Its just really depressing how the poor guy always seems to be second choice to every women he falls in love with. Except, presumably, Anna, who he saw die horribly. He is a rich mega genius superhero who is also the nicest person in the Arrowverse, looks like a model, and is nothing but supportive of his ex girlfriends, without still being hung up on them, and he STILL cant find a person who really loves him.  No wonder he has self esteem issues.

If nothing else, Nate/Amaya doesn't make me sad.

[GHScorpiosRule]

49 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

C'mon, pretty mama! :)

I don't think Barry's going back in time to try to save his mom, or his going back in time to save his mom and dad and creating Flashpoint were evil. They were just incredibly short-sighted, selfish and unheroic.

 

To the first-HEE!??

As to Barry-I know it was selfish and short-sighted, but based on the comments I've read here, (this site), Barry's actions have been described as villainous and some see him as such. I just don't agree with that. That was my point. But I could see why Barry did what he did. 

Topic?

I, too, kept getting confused as to who were the original team pre-Doomworld and post; except for Sara, and that was because of her hair!

[ElleMo]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

To the first-HEE!??

As to Barry-I know it was selfish and short-sighted, but based on the comments I've read here, (this site), Barry's actions have been described as villainous and some see him as such. I just don't agree with that. That was my point. But I could see why Barry did what he did. 

Topic?

I, too, kept getting confused as to who were the original team pre-Doomworld and post; except for Sara, and that was because of her hair!

 

Time travel makes my head hurt if I think about it too much.  I go crazy when people call Barry selfish about trying to save his mother.  He was doing exactly what the Legends do -- fixing something in time.  In the original timeline,  Barry was a speedster, so was Thawne.  Thawne went back in time to kill Barry and killed his mom instead.  Barry fixed that. My feeling is that going back in time and letting her die so Wally could live was stupid, but the original change was not. And he should have killed Thawne.    But I digress -

 As someone mentioned previously, I wish a mixture of Legends had survived to move on so that some remembered Doomworld and some did not. But I guess with the way Sarah disappeared, that wouldn't work.

My interpretation of the spear was that when Sara began her wish, time stopped so she had time to really think about how to change reality.  I think her wish was to see Laurel again - so I think that really was Laurel speaking. After hearing her sister's pep talk, Sarah was able to wish everything back the way it was, for the spear to lose its power and for zombie Zoom to come eat Eobard.  If only she had wished for an end to the time quakes.  

Still makes no sense that none of the Thawnes could grab the spear but hey. some things you gotta let go.

 

I do have to say I hate stories where some holy object can cause great evil.  Something given power from God should only do good or be too powerful for mortals to even gaze upon (ala Raiders of the Lost Ark.)  If you are going to go with the holy, powerful object that can be used for good or evil, I prefer it be some ancient god of a religion that no one practices. 

[Miss Dee]

@tennisgurl: You're so right about Ray. He needs someone who is focused on him. Who is ride or die for him. Someone who can see and appreciate him as a full partner. Who can encourage him to science his way out of stuff when he feels discouraged. Someone who'd mutiny against a ship of people to run and fight by his side....

Too bad there's nobody like that aboard the Waverider. Ah well.

[tennisgurl]

I swear @Miss Dee if they went there, I would forgive every criticism I have ever had of this show ever.

[Cthulhudrew]

9 hours ago, RandomMe said:

The Rip that left at the end wasn't the one who had been trapped on the ship with only Gideon for a year. This Rip didn't have that experience, because the Legends kept the Spear of Destiny from being used by the Legion. 

Oh, crap! You're right- I totally forgot that. 

That means all that baking and confectionary knowledge and experience are lost to eternity! AAAAAAAUUUUUUGGGGHHHHHH!!!!! :'(

Edited April 6, 2017 by Cthulhudrew

[RedVitC]

22 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Presumably when she goes back to 1942 (or close to it...most like real time relative to how long she stayed on the Waverider) she'll go back to her village and resume her life there.   No one from the JSA will know she's back.  If she were to return to the JSA in the past, it would alter the past and they likely wouldn't go on the mission in the 50s where Rip recruited them.  Of course that still doesn't explain how she can be gone for so long without time 'hardening' and Mari being erased.

So she wouldn't go back to the JSA. Ok, that makes more sense! But now another thing has popped in my head, did she originally not stay with the team (in the timeline where she stayed).