S03.E06: Season 3, Episode 6

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Ellie and Hardy bring a new suspect in for questioning. In a search of this suspect’s premises, Ellie finds devastating new evidence linking him to the crime.
Back at the station, DC Katie Harford confronts Ellie and Hardy with an uncomfortable truth about her role in the investigation.

Edited August 3, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[staveDarsky]

http://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/fmq29x/broadchurch--series-3-episode-6

Everyone seems to have inched slowly forward with their lives after the murder of Danny Latimer. But not his dad. Mark is haunted and lost; he dreams of Danny and the man he could never become. Andrew Buchan is heartbreaking as Mark, restlessly looking for peace of mind, hatching schemes, needing revenge, but spinning aimlessly.

His wife Beth (Jodie Whittaker) is moving on, channelling her energy into helping rape victims, particularly Trish Winterman (Julie Hesmondhalgh), who’s struggling to cope. “I feel like I’m sinking… I hate myself and I don’t want to be in my body,” she says in an anguished late-night phone call.

There are dramatic developments in the investigation and disturbing evidence comes to light. But there’s a bit more focus on the lead detectives’ home lives and an interrupted dinner when a furious Ellie Miller sets to work with a hammer.
 

Summary

Ellie and Hardy bring a new suspect in for questioning and in a search of this suspect's premises, Ellie finds devastating new evidence linking him to the crime. Back at the station, he gives them his detailed version of events, but when they dig deeper they begin to doubt his story, while DC Katie Harford confronts Ellie and Hardy with an uncomfortable truth about her role in the investigation. The fact that Ian has taken a personal item of Trish's without her knowledge comes to light.

[staveDarsky]

As the Brits say, what a corker of an episode!

There wasn't a slow moment in it.

We now have Ed's and Katy's secrets revealed, Ian's theft of Trish's laptop out in the open and the source of the porn on Tom's phone.
The big one -- for all the doubters -- is that Joe admitted to Mark that he killed Danny. I was hoping against hope that Mark wouldn't end his life (It was spoiled in the papers last August). That was such a devastating finish. The call to Chloe to say goodbye was dripping with foreboding. Andrew Buchan did astounding work in this episode. It's hard to shake that final image.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ellie gets an A+ this week. She rightfully dressed down Katie for being a complete idiot. And moron that she is, Katie STILL didn't get it after Ellie read her the riot act. "Please don't take me off the case!" Gawd. Okay, why don't you stay on it so that when this goes to trial, everything gets thrown out and a guilty man goes free because of your deliberate obtuseness and refusal to follow the rules? What an absolute fucking idiot. Loved that afterward, Hardy basically high fived Ellie for yelling at Katie.

Also great: Ellie yelling at her dad for his "everyone's been raped or abused" remark, immediately bringing up consent with Tom, busting him for stealing his phone back, destroying his phone and laptop, and telling him tough shit, no more technology for you! She was a stellar manager and a stellar mom this week!

At the beginning of the episode I thought man, Mark really doesn't care about being subtle. He is just going to drive down to kill Joe Miller in a van with his name on it. That will make it extra easy to find him on the CC footage for the murder trial! Joe, on the other hand, was being a complete moron. You see that he's following you and you drive straight to your house. It was sad to see two broken men trying to make sense of things, but it was still hard for me to feel at all sorry for Joe since he is the one who preyed on a child, murdered him, covered it up, and then pled innocent. He is a pathetic piece of shit who destroyed his family, Mark's family, and the peace of an entire town. Poor Chloe. She and Beth have been through enough without Mark's suicide on top of it all.

Wow, Ed. Talk about being delusional stalker. When they found the 5000 pictures of Trish on his phone I thought daaaaaaaaamn. When they said the photos went back ten years, I thought sheesh, Ed, you've been stalking this woman for ten years and all of these pictures are of the back of her head? You're terrible at this!

Alec was being selfish when he asked Daisy to stay so that he can see her for 20 minutes here or there. I think he's forgotten what it's like to be in high school. Kids are vicious and you are trapped in the same building with them for 6-8 hours per day. When there is a scandal about you in school, it's really inescapable. I get what he was saying about how she's not a kid anymore and she needs to stand up for herself, but how do you really stand up for yourself when the whole school has seen nude pictures of you? There's really no good solution to that except waiting for the next big scandal to come along in the hopes that people will forget about your boobs.

Love that Leah was having none of Ian's innocent act. "Who, me? I didn't sneak in and steal your mom's computer last night!" Her response was perfect: you're supposed to be parenting me, not the other way around. Pretty sad when your child has to say that to you. Ian seemed perfectly happy to hand the laptop over to Ellie and Alec so I guess he got someone to remove whatever it is he was concerned with Trish (or the police) finding.

Cath and Jim are too much. They really do deserve each other. I can't believe she agreed to reconcile with him and move away. Girl, you know he's been cheating on you left and right for years. Moving to another town just means he will have a fresh crop of women to hook up with.

[NorthstarATL]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ellie gets an A+ this week. She rightfully dressed down Katie for being a complete idiot. And moron that she is, Katie STILL didn't get it after Ellie read her the riot act. "Please don't take me off the case!" Gawd. Okay, why don't you stay on it so that when this goes to trial, everything gets thrown out and a guilty man goes free because of your deliberate obtuseness and refusal to follow the rules? What an absolute fucking idiot. Loved that afterward, Hardy basically high fived Ellie for yelling at Katie.

Indeed! Loved her taking a hammer to the electronics too. (Famous people in America did that just recently!) But mouthing off to her father annoyed me. Kids mirror behavior, Her son does NOT have that many great role models.

  Beth annoyed me too this episode. I know she's healthier for having moved on and all, but, maybe it's because my friend's son's birthday was this week, and his death as a teen is still a tragedy we all mark, when she was telling her fellow counselor about how she was shaken by having to accompany Trish to the police to give her statement, I assumed it would be because the police station would trigger all the stuff with Danny, but, no, it was because she felt empathy with Trish, which, again, isn't a bad thing, but sort of makes it seem that she's forgotten her son in way. OTOH, without that scene we would not have gotten the info on the third rape, so good writing. I'm with the victim in that case, though. She told them what happened. It's long ago enough that any testimony would likely be ripped to shreds and her life irreparably damaged. Trish isn't judged for having been raped, but a slew of unfortunate events involving adultery were dredged up, as we have seen.

  I think the husband, Ed, Jim, etc. are just soap opera baggage revealed by the investigation. My guess is the good-looking kid with the twine company did it. More than likely he has a sexual problem where he can only "perform" in rapey outdoor situations, and the pattern is about the weather and addiction to the act. He's pretty enough that no one would likely suspect, and there are enough girls who will cover for him, but I'll bet we'll find out that there are limited to no normal sexual relations going on. Just my theory. (Plus, also the access to the team socks, as was pointed out last episode; almost forgot!)

  The creepy guy with the mackerel story is also a red herring, IMO.

[sinkwriter]

Quote

I think the husband, Ed, Jim, etc. are just soap opera baggage revealed by the investigation. My guess is the good-looking kid with the twine company did it.

Agreed. I think they're doing a great job making Jim, Ed and the ex Ian look guilty, but they probably have other issues and secrets (like those that came out about Ed in this week's episode) that are the real issues they have. I'm sure whatever's on Ian's laptop is something entirely different and separate from Trish's case, but also awful in its own way, whatever it is.

My money is on either the cabbie or the obnoxious kid with the twine. Especially the obnoxious kid with twine - he's got access to the twine and he has been shown to have the type of socks that may have been used as a gag. The only info missing is how he's connected to Trish herself. Perhaps that will soon be revealed.

One side bit of uncomfortableness: the whole porn issue with Tom. I don't know if it's just normal teen boy hormonal obsession with porn and sex, or if we should be concerned about him. His father was a pedophile and murderer; who the hell knows what that's done to Tom's brain? Is he acting out, or does he have some sort of obsessive inclination like his father had, only Tom's isn't with child porn? All I know is, whenever there are scenes involving Tom, I get so uncomfortable and twitchy because I just don't trust him.

My heart broke for Mark. Devastating, so so devastating. I kept hoping his daughter would call the police.

[Eri]

Stellar episode - all the people I disliked got ripped into and I loved it. Tennant's accent had a field's day haha.

I was never comfortable with Ed assaulting Jim the way he did but I felt sorry for him in a way - ten years is a long time to stalk someone and yet he still has some crushing shame he won't reveal to the police. I wish he'd get it over with so they can move on to the next red herring.

Miller laying into Katie was way overdue - by the time she showed up to see Hardy for yet another explanation and I wanted her to go away entirely.

Ian is running my last nerve with his "Help me out" routine while feigning innocence - his daughter was right to be fed up of having to "parent" him because he's a coward. Trish was wrong about the affair but was right to send Cath packing after her self-righteous attitude. If this had been his first infidelity I could understand but she knows Jim won't change his behaviour no matter where they move and she had to make it all about her in the end - funny how the secondary female characters connected to Trish (Cath with Jim, Katie with Ed) are the ones to do the victim blaming.

Speaking of which, I had hoped it would've been Joe who was driven over the edge instead of Mark. The smallest ounce of hope he was holding on to was that he could have saved Danny and Joe had to take that away too, the bastard. It's so unfortunate that the guilt and grief drove him into such a depression - the vicar was the only one who tried to reach out. As a counselor who helps people through trauma, I was hoping Beth would've picked up on it but honestly she should've divorced him years ago - now she'll have this hanging over her head. I wish Mark could've been strong enough to be there for Chloe and their youngest child who everyone seems to have forgotten about.

I have to give it to Hardy and Miller - they may be workaholics but they try so hard to do right by their children. I was quite emotional seeing him pouring his heart out to Daisy given his usual stoic nature. He's always more endearing when he wants to do the right thing even when he doesn't have the words. Meanwhile Miller continues to lay on the tough love with Tom - I suspect she's fed up to a point where she wants to beat the crap out of every male in Broadchurch and I can't say I blame her because they all act despicable.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Eri

[mledawn]

Another great episode. Mark's phone call to Chloe was devastating - she will be absolutely gutted when her fears are confirmed. He just couldn't let it go. He was so defeated, he couldn't even kill Joe Miller at the end of it all.

I loved Miller giving it to Katie, but Katie is in the wrong line of work if she doesn't realise how she's compromised the case. That's like every episode ever of Law & Order - and that shows in the UK plus they've their own version. No excuse.

Tom doesn't even have the sense to look ashamed - perhaps that's just the actor being terrible, though.

Hardy didn't seem to be swaying Daisy too much at all, but that could also be her acting choices...

Ed is an odd duck who can't seem to realise how antisocial his behaviour is, while Ian is some sort of sociopath and completely unbothered about lying to his daughter. What a bunch of twits.

[Nozycat]

This show, it's so good and so moving to me.

I thought Trish had no right to be like that with Cath, she betrayed their friendship.

And I hated Mark's call to Chloe.  As soon as it started I knew he was going to kill himself and he involved Chloe in it and will likely leave her with deep guilt feeling - wrongly - that she could have stopped it.  Just my guess.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Nozycat

[sinkwriter]

Quote

I thought Trish had no right to be like that with Cath, she betrayed their friendship.

I agree. On all other occasions, my allegiance has been with Trish, but on that particular conversation, I was with Cath. No, Trish didn't deserve to be raped, but that doesn't get to be part of the conversation when you tell me that you slept with my husband multiple times... and on my BIRTHDAY, no less! You forfeit the rights to my friendship, comfort and support when you do something like that.

You don't get to make demands in this circumstance, Trish. Your friend doesn't owe you anything after you do something like that to her. Go find someone else to lean on from now on. Your daughter, your other coworker friends, etc.

Edited April 9, 2017 by sinkwriter

[Ceindreadh]

On 4/4/2017 at 3:10 AM, staveDarsky said:

As the Brits say, what a corker of an episode!

There wasn't a slow moment in it.

We now have Ed's and Katy's secrets revealed, Ian's theft of Trish's laptop out in the open and the source of the porn on Tom's phone.
The big one -- for all the doubters -- is that Joe admitted to Mark that he killed Danny. I was hoping against hope that Mark wouldn't end his life (It was spoiled in the papers last August). That was such a devastating finish. The call to Chloe to say goodbye was dripping with foreboding. Andrew Buchan did astounding work in this episode. It's hard to shake that final image.

To me the final scenes there show that Mark cared more about his dead son than his living daughters. I did start out feeling sorry for him when he was on the phone to Chloe, but then I realised that he was making that call as a suicide note and that's going to be the last image she'll have of him. 

 

Katie is an idiot. All she had to do was tell her superiors about her father as soon as his name came up. Was she really that naive or stupid that she thought it matter? Has she never watched a legal/cop drama in her life?  Or was she just ambitious and thought that participating in a major crime would be a good career move? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think Katie was just so stupid that she didn't think it would matter, as evidenced by her later asking if they could put her back on the case. Just so dumb.

I don't think Mark cares more about Danny than his two daughters. I think that Mark is so obsessed with his own guilt that the thought never crossed his mind that he would be hurting what was left of his family. I think he also felt guilty that he couldn't kill Joe and realized that he did have it in him to kill himself so he saw it as a kind of penance for not saving Danny and not avenging Danny's death by killing Joe. I'm not excusing his actions or rationalizing his decisions though. If he realized that he would be giving Chloe a lifetime of guilt, I don't think he could have gone through with it.

[spottedreptile]

7 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

To me the final scenes there show that Mark cared more about his dead son than his living daughters.

Mark was showing all the signs of mental illness. He was beyond realising the effect of his behaviour on those closest to him. His world had narrowed to such a tiny extent that his grief and guilt were all he was aware of. Grief can do very strange things to people and it can take years for the grieving to come to terms with their feelings, if at all. I wouldn't condemn Mark too much for not being aware of his family's thoughts or what he was doing to them. He simply wasn't capable of recognising it. He also wasn't aware he was on a path to self-destruction either, so efforts by Beth or Chloe to get him to acknowledge this would have ended in failure too. Very very sad. 

As for Katie, she did what most of the perps and innocent people do when cornered over a dumb thing they did - lie and hope it would go away. To me this showed how fine the line is between innocence and criminality. All it takes is a moment of idiocy and bang, your life's changed and you've got a record or you're out of a job or whatever. I think she was in a permanent state of denial over it anyway. I wouldn't say she was a dumb person. Even very intelligent people fall into this trap. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by spottedreptile

[staveDarsky]

She also has a chip on her shoulder. Two or three times she remarked "__ doesn't like me " after she was reprimanded for something she did wrong. If she keeps that up, she'll be fired. I understand she feels the need to prove herself -- she showed that with not immediately telling Hardy about Aaron getting in the car. But as long as she thinks her superiors or coworkers are working against her, she'll forget that police work takes team work.

My worry is that she might bring charges against Ellie for the second bollocking. Hardy's the lead officer on the case, not Ellie. I can also see Katie dredge up the speculation that Hardy and Miller are having an affair and that's why Ellie gets preferential treatment that she may not be entitled to have.

Edited April 9, 2017 by staveDarsky

[secnarf]

I was a bit surprised that Katie didn't throw Joe back in Ellie's face - I was just waiting for her to do that each time Ellie stopped to take a breath. Katie must know about him, and to me it was clear that Ellie's anger wasn't entirely about Katie. Granted, Joe was never actually a suspect until he confessed, but Ellie didn't even consider the possibility that he could be involved, despite him being close to the Latimers. 

[staveDarsky]

2 hours ago, secnarf said:

I was a bit surprised that Katie didn't throw Joe back in Ellie's face - I was just waiting for her to do that each time Ellie stopped to take a breath. Katie must know about him, and to me it was clear that Ellie's anger wasn't entirely about Katie. Granted, Joe was never actually a suspect until he confessed, but Ellie didn't even consider the possibility that he could be involved, despite him being close to the Latimers. 

And Katie wouldn't know this, but Ellie tried to prevent Tom from being interviewed or from playing "Danny" in the re-enactment of Danny's last movements on CCTV.

[OldWiseOne]

Quote

Speaking of which, I had hoped it would've been Joe who was driven over the edge instead of Mark. The smallest ounce of hope he was holding on to was that he could have saved Danny and Joe had to take that away too, the bastard.

I thought the exact opposite - once Mark knew that he couldn't have saved Danny even if he'd gone to the house, then he didn't need to feel guilty about not going to the house.

[Desperately Random]

4 hours ago, OldWiseOne said:

I thought the exact opposite - once Mark knew that he couldn't have saved Danny even if he'd gone to the house, then he didn't need to feel guilty about not going to the house.

Me too. I thought Mark was relieved to know that he wasn't standing outside while his son was still alive.  He had been carrying around that guilt thinking he could have saved his son but now he knows that as far as that goes, he has nothing to feel guilty about. Obviously, he still feels guilty about not knowing that his son was meeting with Joe and that he isn't able to kill Joe to avenge his son's death.

[staveDarsky]

I doubt that was a relief more than it was just throwing him into the void. He'd put all sorts of energy into imagining ways he could have saved Danny, but he would have been too late. He envisioned killing Joe for a long time, but he couldn't. No matter what Mark did, nothing could bring back Danny. His role as family protector was blown.

Unfortunately Mark has been blind to how much his daughters still need him. I suppose he thought he was sparing them years of pain trying to deal with him.

[Desperately Random]

On 4/16/2017 at 3:20 PM, staveDarsky said:

I doubt that was a relief more than it was just throwing him into the void.

Oh, I think that there was a small part of Mark that was relieved to know that his belief that if he had gone inside the house he could have saved his son turned out to be wrong. What parent wouldn't feel that way if they found out they weren't standing outside and drove away right before their child was killed? Knowing the weight of the guilt about that part of Danny's death was never his to carry had to have given him some small measure of relief.

  I have to disagree about Mark going into a void. Didn't see it and actually think it was just the opposite. Mark is very aware of how tormented he continues to be about his son's death and he is anything but empty. He is still full of anger and sadness. His whole life is consumed by it and he can't seem to move on like Beth and Chloe have been able to do. His entire existence is filled with the injustice of his son being murdered and the murderer walking away free. I think Mark would have loved to be able to live in a void, being empty and living in a vacuum, but he couldn't which is why he tried to commit suicide.

[Last Time Lord]

The episode finished on BBC America.

And here I thought the saddest part of the was going to be the dream Mark had about Danny still being alive with them playing video games together. And then, the ending. Wow.

[voiceover]

I loved what Hardy had to say to his daughter.  He came through in a completely Hardyesque fashion (I knew he wasn't going to hug her, last week or this week; the man's not a hugger!).  I might have sided with the "Daisy should go back to her mum" crowd, until he pointed out that it had been bad there, too.   Sad but valid point.  As hideous as it has been for her, I hope she doesn't doubt her dad's love & support.  And example.

Ellie: a proper dragon!   Because next to snappy patter with her partner, Righteous Anger Ellie is the best Ellie.

My heart breaks for Mark, and I can only hope he turned over & swam for shore.  

[Kathira]

Oh, Mark. It felt like hearing Joe's confession and also hearing that he couldn't have done anything to save Danny really unmoored him. He didn't have his obsession any more, and he couldn't see any way back to life with Beth. He was free to be with Danny. Could the writing and acting on this show be any better? This season is really making up for how annoying the courtroom stuff was last season. 

 

On the current mystery, I agree that all the drama with Jim, Cath, Trish, and Ed is a red herring. Other red herrings - Ian and the other rapist. Who does that leave? I think the twine kid is also too obvious. Maybe the cabbie? I still want to know who lives in the smaller house on the estate where the party was and more about other staff, the caterers, cleaners, musicians, etc.

As to the third victim, I wondered whether her reluctance to come forward was cultural. Her name was Nira, and she could have been Indian or Middle Eastern. They didn't say specifcally, but she did say that it would affect her family and her social standing very negatively, which isn't unusual in conservative cultures.

[mjc570]

Of course Katie should have disclosed her relationship to Ed as soon as his name surfaced, but in no way did she deserve to be treated like that.  Ellie  has been awful to her from the very beginning, for reasons that Ellie herself admitted had nothing to do with Katie.  This is yet again Ellie acting unprofessionally, and was one of the elements of the first season.  If she had had a more supportive relationship with Katie, instead of being resentful, perhaps Katie would have approached her earlier.

This show has pretty much gone past showing the on-going effects of the trauma suffered by rape survivors, at least for me.  I hate to say this, but I'm just out of sympathy for the two women.  Trish sleeping with Jim was wrong and a gross betrayal of her friend.  Her pettiness (telling Cath to "slink out" the back) just solidified my poor opinion of her.  I appreciate Beth's plain speaking to the prior victim, because yes, it's difficult to open up about sexual assault but the fact is that this inability to come forward does have an effect.  The rapist is responsible for the rapes, but a victim's refusal/inability to cooperate with the police (while certainly understandable) does make it more likely that other attacks will occur.  And, sorry, but there should be some recognition of that. 

So the elaborate birthday party was a passive-aggressive way for Cath to get Jim to be honest about their financial situation?  I don't even understand that, but whatever.  I'm still amazed that the population there is large enough that 65 identifiable men were at the party. 

[Voice of Joy]

On 4/4/2017 at 10:10 PM, Eri said:

I have to give it to Hardy and Miller - they may be workaholics but they try so hard to do right by their children. I was quite emotional seeing him pouring his heart out to Daisy given his usual stoic nature. He's always more endearing when he wants to do the right thing even when he doesn't have the words. Meanwhile Miller continues to lay on the tough love with Tom - I suspect she's fed up to a point where she wants to beat the crap out of every male in Broadchurch and I can't say I blame her because they all act despicable.

 

This.  For Hardy to say the things he did (finally) to Daisy, given his difficulty at expressing his emotions in personal situations, was quite touching to me.  Hopefully Daisy will give him a chance.  

I enjoyed the "royally pissed off" and absolutely righteous Ellie Miller immensely.  She was firing on all cylinders this episode.  I agree with whoever above said it was fun to see her and Hardy "hi five" each other after they'd roasted Katie.  Yes, there was the parallel of Ellie not believing Joe was involved, but if Joe had been a serious suspect early on, Ellie would have known to excuse herself.  (So will the beleaguered Katie end up finding the clue that cracks the case?)

Ed has been stalking Trish, but he's got to be a red herring.  He has no connection to the other women at all.

Interesting that the raped women who would not come forward's car had broken down.  Who do we know with a tow truck?  Oh, right.   Jim.  Who has the perfect cover for Trish's rape - he had sex with her that morning.

I wonder if a cabbie would be aware that someone called for a tow?   I don't know how the radio stuff works in Great Britain.

Guess my theory about the musician was bunk.  He would surely have been mentioned again by now.

Clive and Leo are both connected to the porn somehow, but whether they are connected to the rape has yet to be proved.  Leo has the twine and the sock going for him.  Clive is an A1 asshole.

And last but not least, poor Mark was heartbreaking.  His powerlessness was more than he could handle - he was helpless and hopeless.  The actor did a fabulous job, I thought.  I feel bad for poor Chloe, who has been a beacon of reason and maturity from the get go.  She's really drawing bad cards.

Intense episode!  I may need to rewatch this one.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Voice of Joy

[Mackey]

I feel a bit dense but I'm not clear on why Hardy and Miller were as horrified as they were about Katie being Ed's daughter. They screamed and hollared about how this could lose the case for them in court. Wouldn't knowing that someone's kid was in the group that brought someone to trial just make it more compelling a case? Wouldn't minds work that way? "Oh, look, even with his kid on the force they got this evidence?" Or, is there actually legal precedent for the case having to be thrown out under those circumstances? As an observer, I'd only find Katie's presence to be a problem if they did not look at Ed, rather than if they did.

[AnnieBeez]

I don't give a fuck about Mark. It's just unnecessary filler (to me). So, is the actor who plays Beth decent in other roles? I know she's the new Doctor. I can't tell if it's the actor or the character I cannot stand. I could do without that entire family this season.

I wanted Ellie to OPEN the laptop to smash it. 

Snotty Katie finally got told off, and it was about time. 

Trish trying to play the "friend" card after sleeping with Ed was a bit much. On a weird note, does Cath remind anyone else of Caitlin Jenner? I think it might be the mouth?? 

[Kathira]

4 hours ago, Mackey said:

I feel a bit dense but I'm not clear on why Hardy and Miller were as horrified as they were about Katie being Ed's daughter. They screamed and hollared about how this could lose the case for them in court. Wouldn't knowing that someone's kid was in the group that brought someone to trial just make it more compelling a case? Wouldn't minds work that way? "Oh, look, even with his kid on the force they got this evidence?" Or, is there actually legal precedent for the case having to be thrown out under those circumstances? As an observer, I'd only find Katie's presence to be a problem if they did not look at Ed, rather than if they did.

No, any evidence they obtained could be seen as compromised. Also, by asking him about it privately, Katie gave him a chance to destroy any evidence against him. The case against Joe for killing Danny was lost essentially because of their lack of scrupulous attention to procedure. Plus, Hardy originally lost the Sandbrook case because of mishandled/lost evidence, so they are both super sensitive to this issue.

[ghoulina]

I was surprised Jim called the cops after Ed's attack. He doesn't seem like the sort. I also didn't understand why he wanted to work things out with Cath. What, so he can suffer through more pasta every night? They just seemed to have such a crappy marriage, I'd figure the cheating would be the straw that broke the camel's back. 

And it's really bothering me how Trish seems to give no fucks about sleeping with her best friend's husband. I don't care how bad their marriage was, you don't do that. I know she's in a bad place, so I'm trying to give her a pass, but she seems to show zero remorse about it. Being a victim of a horrible assault doesn't excuse previous shitty behavior. And then all this other stuff came spewing out, about Cath thinking she's above everyone and you're not the queen bee in 5th grade anymore. Something like that. It seemed like Trish had been harboring a lot of bitterness and resentment against Cath for awhile now. Did she somehow feel justified in sleeping with her man? 

Ellie's dad was super gross. "Everything is rape these days". Wow.  I totally identified with Ellie's overall frustration this episode. "A woman is attacked and the men are making it all about them". And then her son is back with the porn. And now we know it's coming from Clive. He's a total skeev too. If any town deserves the wicker man treatment, it's this one. Save Hardy and Paul, maybe Nige. Toss the rest. 

Speaking of Mark, I'm still disconnected from that storyline, but I have to remind myself that we know a lot more about what happened to Danny than he does. Joe technically never confessed, right? What we saw was through his eyes, but none of that ever made it to official records, court, etc. So I can understand Mark wanting to know. And for him to think he could have saved his son, not realizing the timeline, that has to have weighed so heavily on him - in addition to the pain of actually losing his son. 

So is he dead now? Is he just going to float in the ocean until he dies? Was he trying to be at one with son? I didn't quite get that ending. 

Back to the rape, Ed is a creepy fucking stalker, ain't he? All those photos!!! Waiting outside her house. And then to find out he's been violent with his wife before. I still don't think he did it, though. I think if Ed were to rape Trish, it would be because of a moment where he tried to actually make things happen with her and she rejected him. But she would have mentioned that, so at this point I just see him as a totally unhinged, obsessed loser. Like most of the men in the town, he's skeevy as hell, but probably not the rapist. Even with the blue twine in his pocket and muddy suit, I still don't know if I believe it. 

My eye is still on the cabbie. Or the band member will pop up. 

[ghoulina]

9 hours ago, Kathira said:

As to the third victim, I wondered whether her reluctance to come forward was cultural. Her name was Nira, and she could have been Indian or Middle Eastern. They didn't say specifcally, but she did say that it would affect her family and her social standing very negatively, which isn't unusual in conservative cultures.

I had the same exact thought. I wondered if she would be regarded in a negative light by her family, and that prevented her from coming forward. 

 

8 hours ago, Voice of Joy said:

Guess my theory about the musician was bunk.  He would surely have been mentioned again by now.

Don't give up on it yet!!! I haven't. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

11 hours ago, mjc570 said:

Of course Katie should have disclosed her relationship to Ed as soon as his name surfaced, but in no way did she deserve to be treated like that.  Ellie  has been awful to her from the very beginning, for reasons that Ellie herself admitted had nothing to do with Katie.  This is yet again Ellie acting unprofessionally, and was one of the elements of the first season.  If she had had a more supportive relationship with Katie, instead of being resentful, perhaps Katie would have approached her earlier.

I think this shows how Katie is absolutely not cut out for her job. I'd think if you chose that line of work, you'd have to expect a lot of animosity towards you. Maybe not from your co-workers or superiors but even so, you've got to do your job even if someone doesn't like you. For what she does, it can be a matter of life and death, prison or freedom. Kind of like a surgeon or ER doctor who works to save the lives of criminals or neo-nazis or whatever. It doesn't matter if people are crappy to you, you have a great responsibility towards humankind.

11 hours ago, mjc570 said:

This show has pretty much gone past showing the on-going effects of the trauma suffered by rape survivors, at least for me.  I hate to say this, but I'm just out of sympathy for the two women.  Trish sleeping with Jim was wrong and a gross betrayal of her friend.  Her pettiness (telling Cath to "slink out" the back) just solidified my poor opinion of her.  I appreciate Beth's plain speaking to the prior victim, because yes, it's difficult to open up about sexual assault but the fact is that this inability to come forward does have an effect.  The rapist is responsible for the rapes, but a victim's refusal/inability to cooperate with the police (while certainly understandable) does make it more likely that other attacks will occur.  And, sorry, but there should be some recognition of that. 

I think the responsibility for getting victims to cooperate with the police lies in the hands of the police, not the victims. It's not fair that police who have treated victims terribly in the past make it a problem for police today (who may be 100% respectful to victims) but that doesn't make it the victim's responsibility, either. I can't help but feel like it's a reasonable response to be worried about being re-victimized by the people who are supposed to help you but often don't. I guess I think that rape victims who come forward should be rewarded but rape victims who don't should not be punished. That's not really going to help anybody or create an environment where people feel safe to get the help they need even if it's years later.

Trish was an ass to Cath this episode but just last episode Cath said to Trish "why would anyone rape you?" I can see why she would still be royally pissed about that. OTOH, I don't think you can expect someone to be your friend after you betray their trust. You fucked up, Trish. Deal with the consequences.

I'm thinking it's the cabbie now just because he's the link between the whole porn on the kid's phones and the rape cases.

[Voice of Joy]

Re the musician:  At least Joe was included more in the story in S1.  Making it the musician at this point seems kind of dishonest on the part of the writers.  Still possible.

A few more musings...things that haven't been explained:  

Why Ian was washing his clothes and brushing his shoes off right after the party.  Trish did say someone who called her name sounded like Ian.

Why the (gives porn to his "son") cabbie has a key ring with Trish's picture on it.

Why Trish, 49, and Leo, 23, both have dark hair and striking blue eyes.  Given the mother/son story in the first season, I wonder if they'd repeat this plot point.  Leo says his dad golfs and the business belongs to his family.  Could Trish have gotten pregnant by a rich boy whose family insisted on getting custody of the child?  Just riffing here.

Why I'm so enamored of Hardy's accent when he gets angry.

[Popples]

10 hours ago, Voice of Joy said:

Ed has been stalking Trish, but he's got to be a red herring.  He has no connection to the other women at all.

Agree completely. If it is just one serial rapist, I'd bet that time-stamps from the photos he took of Trish will put him in the clear for the other attacks.

19 minutes ago, Voice of Joy said:

Why I'm so enamored of Hardy's accent when he gets angry.

I think it's absolutely wonderful. I also like the way he (and the Scottish in general) pronounce "murder".

[geekgirl921]

On 4/7/2017 at 7:28 PM, sinkwriter said:

I agree. On all other occasions, my allegiance has been with Trish, but on that particular conversation, I was with Cath. No, Trish didn't deserve to be raped, but that doesn't get to be part of the conversation when you tell me that you slept with my husband multiple times... and on my BIRTHDAY, no less! You forfeit the rights to my friendship, comfort and support when you do something like that.

You don't get to make demands in this circumstance, Trish. Your friend doesn't owe you anything after you do something like that to her. Go find someone else to lean on from now on. Your daughter, your other coworker friends, etc.

I may have missed something but I don't remember anything being said about her sleeping with him multiple times. My impression was it was just that once and she immediately realized it was a mistake. I am not excusing her but Cath really doesn't come off well. The fact that she is perfectly willing to forgive her husband and move someplace else with him, this man who has cheated on her often and lied about money and she has admitted she really doesn't love but she is being this bitchy to Trish keeps me still on Trish's side.

[ghoulina]

40 minutes ago, geekgirl921 said:

may have missed something but I don't remember anything being said about her sleeping with him multiple times. My impression was it was just that once and she immediately realized it was a mistake. I am not excusing her but Cath really doesn't come off well. The fact that she is perfectly willing to forgive her husband and move someplace else with him, this man who has cheated on her often and lied about money and she has admitted she really doesn't love but she is being this bitchy to Trish keeps me still on Trish's side.

Yea, it was only once. But ugh, I'm on neither side. Cath is a dolt for forgiving her husband, but that doesn't negate how equally horrible what Trish did was. I haven't really seen Trish act like it was a mistake really. I know she's going through trauma from her rape, so I'm trying not to judge. But I'm just not seeing any remorse about her dalliance. We really don't KNOW if it would have become an ongoing thing, because she was raped that very night and her life turned upside down. 

[carrps]

5 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Speaking of Mark, I'm still disconnected from that storyline, but I have to remind myself that we know a lot more about what happened to Danny than he does. Joe technically never confessed, right? What we saw was through his eyes, but none of that ever made it to official records, court, etc. So I can understand Mark wanting to know. And for him to think he could have saved his son, not realizing the timeline, that has to have weighed so heavily on him - in addition to the pain of actually losing his son. 

So is he dead now? Is he just going to float in the ocean until he dies? Was he trying to be at one with son? I didn't quite get that ending. 

 

Yes, he's dead. I assumed he jumped (let himself fall) off the cliff. He and Danny in the boat was after he died...or a final brain spark as he was dying. It's why in that "dream" he had to climb into the water. He landed on the beach, and the high tide took him out to sea.

2 hours ago, Popples said:

I think it's absolutely wonderful. I also like the way he (and the Scottish in general) pronounce "murder".

You should watch "Agatha Raisin" -- another Brit murder series, except on the lighter side.  Ashley Jensen is Scottish, and she says "murder" so deliciously.

[meep.meep]

I think you see her remorse by the fact that she voluntarily sought out Cath and told her about it.  While she is going through the trauma of surviving an assault and rape, that's a pretty big step to take.  She could have just swept it under the rug and not said anything to Cath.

Unlike everyone else, I didn't find this episode very compelling.  I think they should put a stick in it and move on to other projects.  Mark killing himself was sad, but they've been dragging that out for three seasons now.

13 hours ago, mjc570 said:

Of course Katie should have disclosed her relationship to Ed as soon as his name surfaced, but in no way did she deserve to be treated like that.  Ellie  has been awful to her from the very beginning, for reasons that Ellie herself admitted had nothing to do with Katie.  This is yet again Ellie acting unprofessionally, and was one of the elements of the first season.  If she had had a more supportive relationship with Katie, instead of being resentful, perhaps Katie would have approached her earlier.

Ellie's tirade was extraordinarily unprofessional.  Hardy is Katie's supervisor, he should have been the one doling out the licks.  And complaining about how you had it hard and everybody else gets it easy and doesn't appreciate what you had to go through?  I've been in Ellie's shoes in my field, and ranting and raving about it doesn't do you any good, it makes you look like a lunatic.

Whoever our rapist may be, he has an obsession with women walking across a field.  My money is on the cabbie.

[ghoulina]

51 minutes ago, carrps said:

Yes, he's dead. I assumed he jumped (let himself fall) off the cliff. He and Danny in the boat was after he died...or a final brain spark as he was dying. It's why in that "dream" he had to climb into the water. He landed on the beach, and the high tide took him out to sea.

Ah, okay. That does make more sense. I found it weird to see him standing on the cliff one minute, then in the boat the next. 

[geekgirl921]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

Yea, it was only once. But ugh, I'm on neither side. Cath is a dolt for forgiving her husband, but that doesn't negate how equally horrible what Trish did was. I haven't really seen Trish act like it was a mistake really. I know she's going through trauma from her rape, so I'm trying not to judge. But I'm just not seeing any remorse about her dalliance. We really don't KNOW if it would have become an ongoing thing, because she was raped that very night and her life turned upside down. 

Yeah, it was a crappy thing to do but I don't think it would have happened again. But I am sorry, I am still on Trish's side on this one. Cath strikes me as the sort of woman who is self centered and gets upset when the focus isn't on her. I think she was annoyed that everyone was focused on Trish because of the rape and the reveal about the one night stand gave her the excuse to pull focus back to her without looking like a complete bitch!

[tennisgurl]

Oh Mark. That was just so depressing, but as soon as he called Chloe, I knew what was coming. I think Mark just got stuck in his grief and guilt, and while Chloe and Beth could move on, Mark never could. Chloe is going to be heartbroken, the poor girl. So will Beth, so I'm curious as to how that will affect her work with Trish. Her and Mark might not have been in a great place, but he was her husband and she did love him. Will she feel guilty for spending her time helping other struggling people while her husband was having a breakdown? Or just feel heartbroken? And poor, poor Chloe. She has just gone through so much, and she's still stayed so strong and positive. I think Beth put all her energy into her new job and her baby, but Mark didn't have that. He seems to be distanced from his family, and hasn't found anything new to occupy his time, so all he had was obsessing over Danny. Joe is such a worm. I don't think he's a monster (exactly), but he's a totally cowardly, nasty piece of crap. At least he could have pled guilty, so he could give some closure to everyone, but he didn't. Because he's a worm.

More drama with the case! Ed is a creepy stalker (of course), and has some violent tendencies, but I don't think he's the rapist. I think we are dealing with a serial rapist now, and Ed doesn't strike me as the type to attack multiple women. He is obsessed with Trish, not those other women. I'm still leaning towards the musician being the rapist, but I'm positive that Ian and the young guy are in on some kind of porn ring or something. There was something super sketchy on that laptop, and they managed to get rid of it, and that's why he was alright with handing it over. I almost laughed out loud when he said he "wasn't a violent man" during the interrogation. Like, dude, you beat the shit out of a guy for sleeping with a women your obsessed with less than 24 hours ago.

I cant say Cath or Trish are coming off as great here. Cath said some awful things to Trish last week, and her taking her asshole husband back is a super stupid thing to do (just give him new women to cheat with in a new place!), but Trish sleeping with her best friends husband and being snarky to her about it this week was quite nasty and reprehensible. I'm still on her side (I feel so awful for what she's going through), but she isn't a super nice person, especially in this situation. Really, I have no clue why Cath wants to stay with her asshole husband. They don't seem to even like each other, even beyond the cheating, they don't have kids to think about, and their problem doesn't seem to be the place they're in. Why do they want to be together? Also, Trish's crack about Cath being popular in fifth year makes me think that Trish has always been bitter towards her friend, and hooking up with her husband might have had a "Ill show you" angle to it, which really makes Trish look bad again. I feel really bad for Trish's daughter. She seems like a really nice, well adjusted teenager, and she's stuck with these two messed up parents and their whole awful situation.

I could watch Ellie scream at stupid people all day long. Her take down of dumbass Katie was a sight to behold, and I loved Hardy cheering her on. They're high fives afterward were awesome, he was so excited for her! All stupid Katie had to do was tell them that Ed was her father. That's it. I guess she REALLY wanted to be on this case. Because reasons. Maybe Ellie should start playing Bad Cop more often! I feel like Ellie and Hardy must be resisting the urge to just scream "Everyone stop lying all the time damn it!!!" every damn day of the week. Even they're kids are lying to them. But at least Hardy's daughter has a good reason to lie, and I really just feel bad for her. Tom is just a blank faced weirdo of a teenager. I have no idea why he's so obsessed with porn, and keeps not listening to his mom. Maybe the actor is just bad, but he comes off as an emotionless sociopath. He doesn't even bother to act ashamed to angry with his mom. I feel like, for the son of one of the main characters, we don't know anything about Tom, or what he thinks about anything that's happened. Is that on purpose?

4 hours ago, Voice of Joy said:

Why I'm so enamored of Hardy's accent when he gets angry.

I'm right there with you. I always love Hardy's accent, but its at its best when he's angry or frustrated. Which he so often is.

[iggysaurus]

Quote

So, is the actor who plays Beth decent in other roles? I know she's the new Doctor. I can't tell if it's the actor or the character I cannot stand.

I had the same thought. When she was announced as the new Doctor, I was like ... "....Her?" It may be just because I've not seen her in any roles besides Beth, but I never thought she was anything special. I don't hate her or the character, but she's forgettable to me (the actress and the character both). Now, if Olivia Colman was the new Doctor, I would be excited! She is spectacular. 

Quote

I think it's absolutely wonderful. I also like the way he (and the Scottish in general) pronounce "murder".

This 1000%. 

Quote

You should watch "Agatha Raisin" -- another Brit murder series, except on the lighter side.  Ashley Jensen is Scottish, and she says "murder" so deliciously.

Ooh, I love Ashley Jensen! She's delightful. I will have to watch that. I think it's on Acorn. 

[secnarf]

3 hours ago, carrps said:

Yes, he's dead. I assumed he jumped (let himself fall) off the cliff. He and Danny in the boat was after he died...or a final brain spark as he was dying. It's why in that "dream" he had to climb into the water. He landed on the beach, and the high tide took him out to sea.

That was not my interpretation of the scene at all. If he had jumped/fell off the cliff onto the rocks or the beach, that would have been immediately fatal. I interpreted it as he was actually in the boat, imagining Danny there, and then climbed into the water in real life. We didn't actually see him die - he was still alive when the episode ended. I watched it a while ago when it first aired, but I was frustrated that they left it open ended. It felt like a cheap ploy that lessened the impact.

[jaigurudeva]

Is porn illegal/restricted in the UK? I only wonder because Ellie asked where Tom 'got it from,' and was surprised the answer wasn't just, "Duh, mom, the internet." Seems like the days when teenaged boys would have to abscond with an older brother's or father's "girly magazines" to show all their buddies would have been long gone since all that and more is now a filter-less Google search away.

Tried to give Beth the benefit of the doubt last time she was brushing of Mark's desperate grief, thinking perhaps she's been trying to be supportive these last few years and her back is now breaking beneath too many straws. Now it just seems like she has zero empathy, disregarding the third rape survivor's trauma and pain and instead just piling the guilt on like she did her own husband. You'd think someone trained to deal with victims of violent crimes would react better to both instead of just telling them that feeling the way they do is selfish.

8 hours ago, Popples said:

Agree completely. If it is just one serial rapist, I'd bet that time-stamps from the photos he took of Trish will put him in the clear for the other attacks.

I thought so, too! As soon as they said the photos go back many years, it seemed like the key to exonerating Ed. I'm also leaning towards Jim, given that he owns a tow truck, and suddenly wants to leave town now that all the previous rapes are coming to the surface, too. His cheating could connect him with these other women, and also be an M.O. of his, a premeditated move to excuse away any biological evidence if any of the victims go to the police or to perversely prove to himself that he can have a woman both with her consent and without. After all, like Ellie said, rape isn't about sex, it's about power.  And strange that he had unprotected sex with Trish the morning of, when he has condoms (of the brand at the scene of the crime) in his car. But maybe that's all just another misdirection of the show.

[Mabinogia]

8 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

I am not excusing her but Cath really doesn't come off well. The fact that she is perfectly willing to forgive her husband and move someplace else with him, this man who has cheated on her often and lied about money and she has admitted she really doesn't love but she is being this bitchy to Trish keeps me still on Trish's side.

That's why I just can't be on Cath's side here. Hate the man who promised to be faithful to you but broke that promise over and over again at least as much as you hate the "friend" (I put it in quotes now because I'm getting the impression these two were only friends because they are the same age and work in the same place, not because they actually like each other) who did the same thing just once. I hate spouse who let their cheating husband/wife off the hook and put all of the blame on the other woman/man. Really I just hate Cath more and more each episode. But good on her husband for conning her into moving to a new town full of fresh meat for him to screw. She deserves him.

Mark actually broke my heart. I never liked him, not for three seasons, but OMG I was gutted for him. I think he killed himself because he knew he would never be what his family needs him to be (not obsessed) and that so long as he was still alive they wouldn't be able to move on either. His call to Chloe was heartbreaking because she clearly knew what that call was. (great job by the actress)

As for the rapist. OMG I have no idea. It is fascinating in that I feel about 95% sure it is not Ed, but damn does all of that evidence make it hard not to see him as guilty. The only reason I don't think it's him is that he was so obsessed with Trish I don't know why he would rape the other two women. Unless the three cases are not connected and Trish was raped by Ed while the other two were raped by someone else who maybe filmed it, made porn which guys, in this case Ed, is watching and imitating.

I loved watching Ellie go off on Katie. It might not have been professional and wasn't entirely directed at Katie (I am sure Ellie still hasn't gotten over being a cop and not seeing any sign that her husband was a pedophilic child killer) but my god I am sick of Katie's sense of entitlement. And dude, how hard would it have been to see Ed's name on the list and go "hey, that's my dad, FYI". There's no way she didn't know it was important. If so, she needs a new vocation.

This was an emotional episode for me. I can't watch it live because I can't sit through that and go straight to bed. It is one of very few shows that has the ability to leave me emotionally drained after watching. I can't wait to see what happens next.

[seacliffsal]

This episode took my breath away.  Amazing in so many ways.  The pain of so many of the characters is clearly portrayed and so complex.  But the end with Mark-just gutted me.  His desperation, inability to move on with his life, inability to kill Joe, etc., just led him to want to end it all.  Devastating.  And Chloe-knowing what was happening while trying to encourage her dad to come home; oh the grief that she will experience.  There is a truth that many people never get over their grief, they just mask it with something else.

As for Ed-I think he still could be the rapist.  His obsession with Trisha could lead him to want to hurt, rape, and have power over another woman if he felt that Trish slighted him, or was interested in another man instead of him (even her own husband).  Stalking is really a serious situation that often involves violence.  Very scary for Trish in that even if Ed is not the rapist, there is still an unhinged element to him and he is stalking her.

I loved Ellie's rant at Katie.  Many people think they don't have to put time and effort into their jobs, studies, etc.  Or, that the "rules" don't apply to them if they think them unimportant.  Katie felt that she could make a decision about her dad even though it went totally against all rules and protocols (rules?  why, they don't apply to me...).  In a way, it's similar to what Joe told Mark-that he couldn't plead guilty as he couldn't face prison (consequences?  they don't apply to me...).

I am miffed that this is the last season as I think the show has really come into its own this year.

[smorbie]

On 4/9/2017 at 0:59 AM, staveDarsky said:

She also has a chip on her shoulder. Two or three times she remarked "__ doesn't like me " after she was reprimanded for something she did wrong. If she keeps that up, she'll be fired. I understand she feels the need to prove herself -- she showed that with not immediately telling Hardy about Aaron getting in the car. But as long as she thinks her superiors or coworkers are working against her, she'll forget that police work takes team work.

My worry is that she might bring charges against Ellie for the second bollocking. Hardy's the lead officer on the case, not Ellie. I can also see Katie dredge up the speculation that Hardy and Miller are having an affair and that's why Ellie gets preferential treatment that she may not be entitled to have.

I don't think so.  The second one occurred off work grounds and AFTER she had been thrown off the case for malfeasance.  I think she's entitled enough that she might want to pursue something like that.  But, I imagine IA would shut it down rather quickly.

[smorbie]

On 8/2/2017 at 11:54 PM, mjc570 said:

Of course Katie should have disclosed her relationship to Ed as soon as his name surfaced, but in no way did she deserve to be treated like that.  Ellie  has been awful to her from the very beginning, for reasons that Ellie herself admitted had nothing to do with Katie.  This is yet again Ellie acting unprofessionally, and was one of the elements of the first season.  If she had had a more supportive relationship with Katie, instead of being resentful, perhaps Katie would have approached her earlier.

True, Ellie has not been friendly, but she's been cordial, and that's really all we can ask of coworkers.  Even if she had been a dragon who spit in Katie's face everytime she saw her, Katie still should have come forward.  As Ellie said, that really is law enforcement first day, first page stuff.  I understand it would have been uncomfortable, but she could have handed Ellie a note or documented it in some way to prove she was doing the right thing.  Katie has been arrogant and entitled from the first and her trying to hide her relationship with Ed was just another part of that. "He told me he had nothing to do with it".  That's fine police work right there.  She should be fired for this.

I give Trish a break because she is in still in the anger stage of her emotional process.  But, in anger there really is truth.  Think of the picture we saw. Trish sitting in the garden, stewing in her thoughts and stewing in her drink.  I think that's Trish.  I think she's an angry little drunk and has been successfully hiding it for years.  Remember what Ian said about watching her drinking and flirting with all the men at the party.  I know he's an oily man and quick to turn eyes to someone else.  But, that's quite a picture, isn't it?  If it's accurate, she's not as pleasant a person as she appears to have been.  And her quick, nasty dredging up Cath's childhood as a way to indict her was pretty ugly.  As I said, in anger there is truth.  My guess is she's been holding in resentment of her "best friend" since they were in fifth grade together.  Cath has had plenty of time to get over herself a bit, but I don't think Trish ever has.

And Cath?  I'm not a big fan of the "threat scene", a long-standing feature of soaps, where one of the characters gets all dressed up and goes to the other's house just to threaten them and then leave (it just seems like a lot of effort, doesn't it?).  This scene reminded me of that.  There was no reason for her to do that, other than to let Trish know she was staying with Jim.  And it's obvious she is still the queen bee of the fifth grade as much as she can be.  But she was also the person wronged in this situation.  Trish was a victim of a rapist and NOTHING about her life justifies that.  But, Cath was a victim of Trish.  The only one doing the slinking should have been Trish, but I have the feeling she would have enjoyed that.

On 8/3/2017 at 2:40 AM, Mackey said:

I feel a bit dense but I'm not clear on why Hardy and Miller were as horrified as they were about Katie being Ed's daughter. They screamed and hollared about how this could lose the case for them in court. Wouldn't knowing that someone's kid was in the group that brought someone to trial just make it more compelling a case? Wouldn't minds work that way? "Oh, look, even with his kid on the force they got this evidence?" Or, is there actually legal precedent for the case having to be thrown out under those circumstances? As an observer, I'd only find Katie's presence to be a problem if they did not look at Ed, rather than if they did.

And a surgeon could do a great job of operating on his own child.  But emotion tends to cloud things, and as we saw in the court case last year, emotion is what juries use to decide cases, not facts.

[smorbie]

On 8/3/2017 at 7:40 AM, Kathira said:

No, any evidence they obtained could be seen as compromised. Also, by asking him about it privately, Katie gave him a chance to destroy any evidence against him. The case against Joe for killing Danny was lost essentially because of their lack of scrupulous attention to procedure. Plus, Hardy originally lost the Sandbrook case because of mishandled/lost evidence, so they are both super sensitive to this issue.

lol.  when Hardy and Ellie were talking to their supervisor and she said something about it might not be a problem in a trial, I said, "Have you SEEN this man's record in court!".

[smorbie]

On 8/3/2017 at 8:22 AM, ghoulina said:

And it's really bothering me how Trish seems to give no fucks about sleeping with her best friend's husband. I don't care how bad their marriage was, you don't do that. I know she's in a bad place, so I'm trying to give her a pass, but she seems to show zero remorse about it. Being a victim of a horrible assault doesn't excuse previous shitty behavior. And then all this other stuff came spewing out, about Cath thinking she's above everyone and you're not the queen bee in 5th grade anymore. Something like that. It seemed like Trish had been harboring a lot of bitterness and resentment against Cath for awhile now. Did she somehow feel justified in sleeping with her man? 

Ellie's dad was super gross. "Everything is rape these days". Wow.  I totally identified with Ellie's overall frustration this episode. "A woman is attacked and the men are making it all about them". And then her son is back with the porn. And now we know it's coming from Clive. He's a total skeev too. If any town deserves the wicker man treatment, it's this one. Save Hardy and Paul, maybe Nige. Toss the rest. 

I agree about Trish.  I tried to place myself in her spot and I know she's angry at the world, and our tendency is to lash out at the people we love and trust the most.  But...just as Trish is the victim of a rapist, Cath is the victim of Trish.  And I think in that circumstance she was using offensive as a defense against her own guilt.  It does seem like she's been covering up a lot of anger at Cath.  As to her feeling justified...I'm getting the feeling she just does what she wants.  She certainly didn't act like she felt guilty when she ran in and embraced Cath the night of the party.  I'm thinking she doesn't have a lot of empathy for others.  Hmm..charming and lack of empathy.  Interesting traits, those.

As far as Ellie's dad, I AM going to give him a pass.  Everyone is a victim these days.  While Trish is a legitimate victim of rape, here in the US we actually have women who consent to sex and then later say they were victims because of some stupid reason.  

[smorbie]

You may not get this, but it reminds me of the way Shawn Spencer in Psych would do it, long, drawwwwwn out, and very dramatic.  But in Hardy's case it's just his natural voice.  I really love him.  Tennant is just a delight in this role.  Hardy and Ellie are both such richly drawn characters.