S07.E13: Bury Me Here

[walnutqueen]

40 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

You've also only ever walked miles upon miles in your own shoes. Everyone processes life in their unique way. One baby is born, nothing bothers that child, not loud noises, not cigarette smoke, not being fed irregularly. Another baby is born who screams when certain textures touch her skin. Who know why everyone does life differently but we all do. Michonne turned herself into a living walker for who knows how long until she met Andrea, isnt that kinda the same as what Carol has done? Maggie is preggers but she's also fully mentally ready for war, isnt that same as what Carol has done in the (recent) past? Sure Carol can come across as a bit of a bitch sometimes but who doesnt? Seriously, name one human being who doesnt act like an entitled shit at SOME point in their life. Sure, no one should be like that ever, just like we should all treat each other with love and respect at all times....but we dont. Carol is not this horrible harridan intent on destroying the soul of every young person she comes across, in fact she's trying desperately to not ever _have_ to do anything like that ever again. She knows though that unless she just goes far far away OR kills herself she will have to kill again, she will have to do horrible, soul destroying things. She's fucked up...but so is Rick...and Michonne...and Coral...and Darryl....and Maggine...and Sasha...and Rosita...and Negan....and Eugene...and...and...and... They live in a sorrowful world full of sick and sickening choices.

I want to put a diamond engagement ring on this post, and then marry it, whilst never having sex again.

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Carl shot a kid through the FRONT of the head AND killed his own mother...Advantage Carl....

He Da Man!

[Texasmom1970]

Morgan unhinged, I love Lennie James, he is an amazing actor. So glad Carol found out what really went down and put down her novel to kick some ass.

Just curious has anyone wondered or mentioned where the hell Heath is? Or did I miss something, are they just assuming he is dead?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

20 hours ago, Nashville said:

In the season finale, I'm expecting to see the Allied forces (ASZ / Hilltop / GPKs / the Kingdom) lined up against the Axis of the Saviors, lots of tension, lots of eye twitching, lots of different scenes of different people pointing guns at the Other Side - then go to blackout as a single shot rings out.

And we have to wait until next season to find out who fired the first shot of the war.

Again.

I would say it resembles The Outsiders & the "Greasers vs The Soc's", but that would require swapping of people between the enemies here & there.

Who would be Ponyboy and Cherry, though?

[ganesh]

Is a shot in the leg really that fatal? 

These little meetings are getting ridiculous. The saviours making the pickups are only a small group. Kill them, dispose of the bodies, drive the truck far away and leave it there. It's the same thing over and over. 

I actually really laughed when Morgan flipped out and kicked a bucket and the cantaloupe rolled out. I don't get why no one pulled him off Richard though. "Hey Morgan! Stop! No? OK!"

I did like that the middle manager was actually freaked out about the whole thing.

Actually this wasn't that bad. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by ganesh

[Madding crowd]

By the way It's Gladys Kravitz people not Alice! Anyway, I liked this episode more than the last two. I do feel my favorite show has gone down a comic book road that it will never recover from. Morgan remains one of my favorite characters so I always enjoy seeing him in action-but something about the timing of everything seemed off. I can buy Morgan killing when he has to (he always has really), but the particular timing of his strangling Richard and Richard wanting to die in that instant didn't seem quite right. I'm also on the bandwagon that thinks it makes no sense for Negan's guys to be coming around for 12 melons. I get that it's a control thing but why do some people have to provide truckloads of guns and supplies each time and the Kingdom can provide melons? It was sad that Benjamin died, but there are so many, many people now it didn't have the same impact it would have if we would have known him better. Carol is acting like a bitch and I can't stand it. I can understand it, but I don't like it-it's not everyone in the Kingdom's fault what happened to her. And she is not being forced to live in and be coddled in the cottage.

I also didn't like her sitting in the tree and killing the walkers with the road sign-it didn't seem natural and seemed another way for them to say on the Talking Dead "See the inside on the cool way Carol killed the walkers". She could have just strolled up and stabbed them like everyone else does. 

[shanndee]

20 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Is a shot in the leg really that fatal? 

These little meetings are getting ridiculous. The saviours making the pickups are only a small group. Kill them, dispose of the bodies, drive the truck far away and leave it there. It's the same thing over and over. 

I actually really laughed when Morgan flipped out and kicked a bucket and the cantaloupe rolled out. I don't get why no one pulled him off Richard though. "Hey Morgan! Stop! No? OK!"

I did like that the middle manager was actually freaked out about the whole thing.

Actually this wasn't that bad. 

It is if you hit the femoral artery...which Morgan said is what happened. You could bleed out within minutes without proper medical intervention.

[diebartdie]

25 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Is a shot in the leg really that fatal? 

Yes.

[Anela]

I read spoilers for this, but was still surprised when Morgan attacked Richard. Poor Ben. :( And Richard - I didn't like him trying to set up Carol, but he didn't want the kid to die. 

Two episodes after mentioning the writers wiping that smile off Jerry's face, it's gone. :(

It was nice to see the one reasonable-ish savior, yell at the long-haired douche, who has to be preparing for a really grisly death. It would be nice to see a few of Negan's men turn on him. 

It's been so long since we've seen some of the characters, I keep forgetting about them, until they're mentioned here. 

Morgan, flashing back to his son, and "clear". :( Of course they made sure he had that in common with Richard: lost his wife, then his kid.

I wish they'd moved all of this along faster, like the Terminus episodes. 

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

 

Is a shot in the leg really that fatal? J

If you aim for the femoral artery, Yes.  See Cy in Deadwood with his sharp little pocketknife.

[Dobian]

27 minutes ago, Anela said:

It's been so long since we've seen some of the characters, I keep forgetting about them, until they're mentioned here. 

This show has the worst narrative pacing and character arcs of any show I've ever seen.  I thought Game of Thrones was bad.  After Glenn's death you'd think they would put a lot of focus on Maggie, but after a couple of episodes in the first half she has pretty much disappeared.  Instead, they put characters like Rosita and Tara front and center, two second bananas no one cares about.  And where's Carl been?  He's been awol the whole second half.  Even Rick and Michonne only pop up about every third episode now.  These writers spread themselves too thin, and give too much screen time to lesser characters.  Hey it's a Eugene episode!  Meanwhile, Daryl and Jesus just drop in for cameos.  Carol is finally given something to do after being on vacation most of this season.

[Nashville]

8 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Though I must say I liked the Richard story.  It was sold pretty well.  Unlike the kid in the overalls.  Get an acting coach, that talk of boll weevils and fear of tigers was painful to listen to.  Like Beth levels of bad acting.

I assumed this was either (a) a fan who won a cameo appearance, or (b) some producer's niece.

 

4 hours ago, diebartdie said:

Sure Carol can come across as a bit of a bitch sometimes but who doesnt?

Disclaimer: I do not worship at the altar of Our Lady of Perpetual Guerilla Warfare.  That being said - I put 95% of Carol's perceived bitchery down to pure defense mechanism.

[J----av]

On 2017-03-12 at 10:09 PM, TigerLynx said:

These people are definitely to stupid to live.  Once again, an innocent person pays for someone else's stupidity.  Richard didn't get Carol killed, he got Ben killed.

You never give up your guns.  Rule number one in the ZA, or anywhere else.  If you are dealing with a dangerous group or person, you do not give up your guns.

So now Carol and Morgan are ready to fight?

No Sasha or Rosita in the episode.  This season has been one long Glen under the dumpster jerk around.

 

 OK, so you and everyone there would just get killed then

[ShadowSixx]

6 hours ago, Anela said:

I read spoilers for this, but was still surprised when Morgan attacked Richard. Poor Ben. :( And Richard - I didn't like him trying to set up Carol, but he didn't want the kid to die. 

Well Richard should know that the Saviors pick their victims at random. We've seen plenty of that with Glenn & Olivia being randomly picked out of the blue for their deaths. When someone fucks up for the Saviors someone else is gonna suffer the consequences. Daryl fucked up and Glenn suffered, Rosita fucked up and Olivia died, Richard same thing which resulted in Benjamin's death. Only person who died as a direct result of their actions is Spencer.

[walnutqueen]

8 hours ago, Dobian said:

This show has the worst narrative pacing and character arcs of any show I've ever seen.  I thought Game of Thrones was bad.  After Glenn's death you'd think they would put a lot of focus on Maggie, but after a couple of episodes in the first half she has pretty much disappeared.  Instead, they put characters like Rosita and Tara front and center, two second bananas no one cares about.  And where's Carl been?  He's been awol the whole second half.  Even Rick and Michonne only pop up about every third episode now.  These writers spread themselves too thin, and give too much screen time to lesser characters.  Hey it's a Eugene episode!  Meanwhile, Daryl and Jesus just drop in for cameos.  Carol is finally given something to do after being on vacation most of this season.

You break my heart and shatter my Sunday evening TWD/GoT plastic bubble.  :-(

Sometimes an episode of this show is like a teaser stallion - always a hard-on, mostly unsatisfied ...

[The Mighty Peanut]

I'm glad Carol can be a bitch, though I don't know if that's the right term. I think she's trying to be very clear in setting boundaries. I think it's equivalent to Daryl being distant and abrupt when he's in one of his moods. She's been through a lot and it's natural to drive people away. She found a spot to live alone and recover from the trauma of many things, among them losing herself and killing a multitude of living human beings. She doesn't want to form attachments, and she doesn't want charity. She has said so again and again, and people keep not respecting her wishes. She was happy to refuse food and medical supplies, but Ezekiel insisted. She wanted to leave entirely, but Ezekiel asked her to stay. Should she refuse a relatively safe place with all of the commodities offered to her, that she has made clear she doesn't need, so she can avoid appearing ungrateful to Richard and Jerry, or should she take advantage of the solitude and vegetable garden she's been looking for?

I liked her this episode because she realized her attempt at not getting attached has failed, anyway. She tried to distance herself from Sam and Ben, but she cared about them anyway. She set a clear boundary with Lizzie and Mika that she was not their mother, but she mothered them anyway. Then there's Sophia, obviously. Even though she did everything she could to avoid establishing a bond with Ben, in a way Carol has still just lost her fifth child. 

I've been annoyed with her this season. I've been worried about her going crazy and getting infected purposely. But I like where she's at right now and look forward to the return of Rambo.

Edited March 14, 2017 by The Mighty Peanut

[ByTor]

15 hours ago, rmontro said:

Morgan has been through all this stuff, the Wolves, the Saviors, Glenn, Abraham, and the others getting killed.  And the thing that sets him off is Richard wants to sacrifice himself?  Okay, it's more related to Benjamin getting killed.  But the Saviors killed intentionally, and that was okay?  Richards accidentally, indirectly gets someone killed, and Morgan decides to choke him out?  Just seems a little off to me, so I had to mention it.

I could not agree more.  If this was Morgan realizing that inactivity could end up leading to horrible occurrences, then why did he murder someone in his own community rather than Savior middle-management guy or long-haired guy?  And the way he murdered Richard was brutal.  Also, unpopular opinion, I think Morgan is a really good actor & is generally spot on, but I thought that death glare he gave Richard was overacted to the point of being comical.  In fact, I imagine many outtakes where the cast cracked up over it.

14 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

Carol is still a rude bitch just entering the Kingdom in the beginning like she owned the place and just demanding to know where Morgan is. Ugh. I'm on the verge of wanting someone to just kill her though.

THIS!  Except I'm not on the verge, I want someone to off her.  Hopefully, then, I'll never have to see that sour face again, or ever read the words "badass", "cookies", or "casserole" again!

Edited March 14, 2017 by ByTor

[smorbie]

  15 hours ago, rmontro said:

Morgan has been through all this stuff, the Wolves, the Saviors, Glenn, Abraham, and the others getting killed.  And the thing that sets him off is Richard wants to sacrifice himself?  Okay, it's more related to Benjamin getting killed.  But the Saviors killed intentionally, and that was okay?  Richards accidentally, indirectly gets someone killed, and Morgan decides to choke him out?  Just seems a little off to me, so I had to mention it.

I could not agree more.  If this was Morgan realizing that inactivity could end up leading to horrible occurrences, then why did he murder someone in his own community rather than Savior middle-management guy or long-haired guy?  And the way he murdered Richard was brutal.  Also, unpopular opinion, I think Morgan is a really good actor & is generally spot on, but I thought that death glare he gave Richard was overacted to the point of being comical.  In fact, I imagine many outtakes where the cast cracked up over it.

Gimple said the strangluation was one of rage. And, I agree. I don't think he planned to do it, at all. He just became enraged when he realized Richard hadn't fessed up to Ezekiel despite telling Morgan he would. Morgan was already so angry he could barely control it, and he just lost control. After he was done, he parroted Richard's words because he now wants to kill the Saviors as much as Richard done. He's not stupid. Might as well use it.

[ByTor]

13 hours ago, Dobian said:

I think a big part of it was that he was immediately executing the long con Richard had planned to lull them back into a sense of normalcy and the belief that the Kingdom was back on board.

But then there goes the theory that Morgan lost his sanity, it seems like someone insane and irrational wouldn't be able to think up such a calculated plan.

6 minutes ago, smorbie said:

He just became enraged when he realized Richard hadn't fessed up to Ezekiel despite telling Morgan he would.

Yeah, but just because he didn't do it on Morgan's timeline didn't mean he wasn't going to confess.  I understand he was enraged, but I'd just think in the moment he would have used that rage on his enemy.  In fact, when he got the stick I initially thought it was long-haired guy that he clubbed.  I guess the showrunners didn't get across what they meant to get across from my perception.

Edited March 14, 2017 by ByTor

[spiderpig]

I just thought Morgan had been lurking around in the background looking glum for long enough, and the writers finally decided to give him something interesting to do.  Like choking Richard and getting his stick back!

[smorbie]

  9 hours ago, Dobian said:

This show has the worst narrative pacing and character arcs of any show I've ever seen.  I thought Game of Thrones was bad.  After Glenn's death you'd think they would put a lot of focus on Maggie, but after a couple of episodes in the first half she has pretty much disappeared.  Instead, they put characters like Rosita and Tara front and center, two second bananas no one cares about.  And where's Carl been?  He's been awol the whole second half.  Even Rick and Michonne only pop up about every third episode now.  These writers spread themselves too thin, and give too much screen time to lesser characters.  Hey it's a Eugene episode!  Meanwhile, Daryl and Jesus just drop in for cameos.  Carol is finally given something to do after being on vacation most of this season.

You break my heart and shatter my Sunday evening TWD/GoT plastic bubble.  :-(

Sometimes an episode of this show is like a teaser stallion - always a hard-on, mostly unsatisfied ...

If they show Rick, you complain. If they show the others, you complain. You just love to hate the show. it's okay; a lot of people do.

Have you ever read a book? I know you have. And you know that a lot of books following many characters tell the story by following different ones in certain chapters. Sometimes a whole chapter will be devoted to back story. It's all in service of the plot.

It's important that we watch Rosita decompensate and implode. That way her next actions will make sense. It's important that we spend time with Eugene because he is being set up for quite a conflict, and that will probably play an important part in the wars that are coming. And it was important for us to spend time in each of the communities so we would understand them, and see what they will bring to the party.

[Ocean Chick]

I thought that Carol, at the beginning of the episode, was just a woman on a mission (to find Morgan and get answers), and wasn't going to be distracted by anything.  Even a young boy excited about how she kills walkers.  And her wanting to be alone was her attempt to distance herself from the hurt of losing family.  She thought that if she were by herself, she could pretend that everything was well and all her friends and family were safe and happy and having a great life.  That she could pretend that no one else was ever dying.    But now she knows that she can't lie to herself, and that even if they're not around, she knows that they ARE dying and suffering.  So, damned if she does and damned if she doesn't, she's going to face reality and try to keep her family as intact and alive as possible.  No more escapism.

It's rather like Michonne's form of escapism.  When we first met her, she was an almost mute loner.  Even when Andrea joined her, Michonne clearly didn't speak a lot, and never spoke about her past and her loss.  Heck, she couldn't even explain what she meant to Andrea when she felt hinky at Woodbury - I kept yelling at the screen for her to use her "big girl words" to tell Andrea why she wanted to leave so much.  But she didn't, so Andrea stayed and ended up dead.  And Michonne still stayed a loner at the prison, and after the prison fell, she escaped back in to "walker mode" for a while, until she made the conscious decision to join life again.  Carol has tried to play the loner, for a MUCH shorter time than Michonne did.  And now Carol, too, has decided to join life and community again.

I don't know if Ezekiel is looking to make Carol his "queen" or not, but clearly both Zeke and Morgan find something in Carol that makes them want to be friends with her.  They both admire her clearly.  As did Ben.  As does Daryl and Rick.  If she were meant to be a bitch, I don't think the writers would have so many men wanting to befriend her.

[ChipBach]

The bottom line is that Richard was right.  The Saviors were willing to execute a child over a single melon.  Even after 'Zeke stated that he could fix the mistake quickly by simply running back to pick one up.  Nope.  They had to kill a kid.  Their malice cannot be denied and if they are continuing to give up their weapons, they continue to make the entire group more and more vulnerable.

While I agree that Morgan's reaction was PTSD and rage, if he was thinking clearly, he should have realized that Richard might have better served as a soldier than a corpse.

[ganesh]

Morgan is one of the few people who aren't idiots. I think Morgan if killed the middle manager, someone else would have been killed because the ratty dude was still there, and I think Morgan knew it. There's really no real reason for the middle manager to retaliate if Morgan is attacking one of his own people. 

[nodorothyparker]

I would imagine Richard blowing during his long monologue about how so sorry his plan didn't work in that Benjamin died but on to plan B in which HE would be leading the combined armies against the Saviors and then still not coming clean to Ezekiel about it had a whole lot to do with Morgan snapping and thinking "no fucker, no you won't."

[Ohwell]

Carol is a bitch because she never thanked Jerry for that cobbler.  She expects to be treated like a queen. 

[diebartdie]

At this point perhaps we should all take our various Carol POV to the Carol specific thread?

[Ohwell]

Sure, more than happy to.

[Gobi]

10 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

At this point perhaps we should all take our various Carol POV to the Carol specific thread?

Is there a cobbler specific thread?

[Ocean Chick]

Mmmmmmmmmm - cobbler.  I think we can all get behind the love train for cobbler.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, smorbie said:

If they show Rick, you complain. If they show the others, you complain. You just love to hate the show. it's okay; a lot of people do.

Have you ever read a book? I know you have. And you know that a lot of books following many characters tell the story by following different ones in certain chapters. Sometimes a whole chapter will be devoted to back story. It's all in service of the plot.

It's important that we watch Rosita decompensate and implode. That way her next actions will make sense. It's important that we spend time with Eugene because he is being set up for quite a conflict, and that will probably play an important part in the wars that are coming. And it was important for us to spend time in each of the communities so we would understand them, and see what they will bring to the party.

She said, "sometimes". I thought walnutqueen was happy to have the show back, she wasn't one of those complaining. (One of us, because I've complained.)

18 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Carol is a bitch because she never thanked Jerry for that cobbler.  She expects to be treated like a queen. 

How many times does a woman have to say that she doesn't want to be bothered? That she doesn't want their food, or company? She isn't a bitch. And I say this as someone who likes Jerry, and would love some cobbler. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Anela

[The Mighty Peanut]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

But then there goes the theory that Morgan lost his sanity, it seems like someone insane and irrational wouldn't be able to think up such a calculated plan.

 

True, but Morgan's lair in "Clear", at the height of his insanity, was still the most expertly fortified premises in the entire show. His best laid plans are made when he's froot loops.

[magemaud]

Was it ever explained how The Saviors meet the Kingdommers (which is what my TV listing called them, but all I can think of is "dumbers") always meet at a neutral location and not right outside the gates of the Kingdom? Do they know the location?  

[nodorothyparker]

We've been told that they encountered each other somewhere "in the woods" and that the Saviors have never been inside the Kingdom itself, which is why most of the residents have no idea about them.  They have an agreement to meet up at their designated spot.  Beyond that, it seems to be a lot of guesswork and conjecture. 

[walnutqueen]

2 hours ago, smorbie said:

If they show Rick, you complain. If they show the others, you complain. You just love to hate the show. it's okay; a lot of people do.

Have you ever read a book? I know you have. And you know that a lot of books following many characters tell the story by following different ones in certain chapters. Sometimes a whole chapter will be devoted to back story. It's all in service of the plot.

 

52 minutes ago, Anela said:

She said, "sometimes". I thought walnutqueen was happy to have the show back, she wasn't one of those complaining. (One of us, because I've complained.)

How many times does a woman have to say that she doesn't want to be bothered? That she doesn't want their food, or company? She isn't a bitch. And I say this as someone who likes Jerry, and would love some cobbler. 

Yeah, I had a WTF moment at being accused of being a hater, complainer and illiterate in one swell foop.   ;-)

I don't like Mondays ...

[smorbie]

  3 hours ago, smorbie said:

If they show Rick, you complain. If they show the others, you complain. You just love to hate the show. it's okay; a lot of people do.

Have you ever read a book? I know you have. And you know that a lot of books following many characters tell the story by following different ones in certain chapters. Sometimes a whole chapter will be devoted to back story. It's all in service of the plot.

 

  1 hour ago, Anela said:

She said, "sometimes". I thought walnutqueen was happy to have the show back, she wasn't one of those complaining. (One of us, because I've complained.)

How many times does a woman have to say that she doesn't want to be bothered? That she doesn't want their food, or company? She isn't a bitch. And I say this as someone who likes Jerry, and would love some cobbler. 

Yeah, I had a WTF moment at being accused of being a hater, complainer and illiterate in one swell foop.   ;-)

I don't like Mondays ...

Sorry, I didn't mean to accuse you of being illiterate. After I signed off, I thought about how I worded that, and it was inartful. I truly am sorry. But, you know what I mean. Books skip from one person to another all the time and no one thinks anything about it. But for some reason, this poor show just keeps getting crapped on.

I'll give you another example. Last year on the show The Americans, in the last episode the female lead admitted she didn't want to go back to the USSR and the pair was on the verge of being caught. When the show came back this year, all that was ignored. And because it's the "best show on television, the reviewers just talked about how clever the show was that it didn't underestimate its audience and just went on about business (by ignoring the event of last year). And so true to expectations the commenters talked about how brilliant the show was, rather than complaining that the show had cheated the audience, written itself into a corner, and just had to ignore the finale.

But that show's supposed to be great and TWD is supposed to be crap. So, while The Americans audience is feigning amnesia and fawning over the same scenarios repeating again and again, TWD audience is complaining about perfectly good episodes that are building something really big.

[walnutqueen]

2 minutes ago, smorbie said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to accuse you of being illiterate. After I signed off, I thought about how I worded that, and it was inartful. I truly am sorry. But, you know what I mean. Books skip from one person to another all the time and no one thinks anything about it. But for some reason, this poor show just keeps getting crapped on.

I'll give you another example. Last year on the show The Americans, in the last episode the female lead admitted she didn't want to go back to the USSR and the pair was on the verge of being caught. When the show came back this year, all that was ignored. And because it's the "best show on television, the reviewers just talked about how clever the show was that it didn't underestimate its audience and just went on about business (by ignoring the event of last year). And so true to expectations the commenters talked about how brilliant the show was, rather than complaining that the show had cheated the audience, written itself into a corner, and just had to ignore the finale.

But that show's supposed to be great and TWD is supposed to be crap. So, while The Americans audience is feigning amnesia and fawning over the same scenarios repeating again and again, TWD audience is complaining about perfectly good episodes that are building something really big.

No worries, mate.  I watch The Americans, TWD and yes, even FTWD - so have a huge tolerance for plotholes.

[spiderpig]

One of the things I love best about this forum is the (fun) arguing about what is or is not dramatically real in a show about reanimated dead people chomping on living humans.

If I want reality I'll watch Meet The Press.

Meanwhile - Carol...you go girl!  Glad you're back.  Now you and Morgan get together and show Rick some spine.  (not literally).

[Kreniigh]

Apropos of nothing but this conversation making me think about Quark for the first time in ages.

Let's hope for Daryl's sake no one named Hannah joins the group.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Kreniigh
thought of a followup

[nodorothyparker]

34 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Meanwhile - Carol...you go girl!  Glad you're back.  Now you and Morgan get together and show Rick some spine.  (not literally).

On this show, it's always wise to specify.  Because they will show you a literal spine if they can find even half a plausible reason to do so.

[Ohwell]

3 hours ago, Anela said:

How many times does a woman have to say that she doesn't want to be bothered? That she doesn't want their food, or company? She isn't a bitch

Then shout out you don't want to be bothered while not opening the goddamn door, and sticking to your guns.  They'll get the message. 

[TigerLynx]

17 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Then shout out you don't want to be bothered while not opening the goddamn door, and sticking to your guns.  They'll get the message. 

Normally, I would agree, but the people's ability to take a hint on this show is non-existent.

If Morgan hadn't killed Richard, I think Richard would have continued to come up with reasons not to tell Zeke what he did.

Richard's plan, according to him, was for him to die.  If idiot long hair had killed Richard, Richard would have been a martyr that the Kingdom should avenge.  Instead Richard's idiot plan got Ben killed making Ben the martyr, and if the truth was revealed, Richard would have been the selfish idiot that got Ben killed.

Edited March 14, 2017 by TigerLynx

[Ohwell]

2 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Normally, I would agree, but the people's ability to take a hint on this show is non-existent.

Yeah but unless they broke in, they wouldn't have had any choice but to get the message.  I said shouting, just to let them she's alive and well, but she didn't have to open the door. 

[ghoulina]

20 hours ago, lmsweb said:

Actually, there is one thing that Carol has had to endure that the others have not, unless I'm forgetting something.

She had to shoot a child in the back of the head. Granted, Lizzie was a homicidal, mentally ill child, but still...killing a child would push most people over the edge. That episode still haunts me.

And that was AFTER the child had killed another child, which is something that is equally, if not more, disturbing in my mind. That whole entire situation with The Grove was one big mindfuck. I don't even know that I could go on living at that point. 

I NEVER want to get into comparing who's had it worse in the apocalypse, and I don't think any of the characters have ever really tried to do that either. But there ain't no denying Carol's been through some shit. 

And I actually respect her choosing to leave the community MORE than Morgan's insistence on staying. His refusal to kill cost lives. By separating herself, she isn't putting others at risk. But it sure would be a lot more understandable if she wasn't a stone's throw from The Kingdom and Jerry's cobblers. 

19 hours ago, paigow said:

Carl shot a kid through the FRONT of the head AND killed his own mother...Advantage Carl....

I won't argue the Lori thing. Again, there's no comparing these losses, they're all horrible in their own way. BUT....I don't think the kid thing effected Carl that much, and I always thought Hershel blew it out of proportion to Rick too. They were in the middle of a siege with the Guv's people and that boy (teenager) was NOT lowering his gun. Carl was the only 100% able bodied man in the woods at that moment, with his baby sister. I didn't blame him one bit, and I don't think it's anywhere near in the ballpark of shooting your surrogate daughter in the head because she was just too mentally unstable to continue to live in this world. 

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, magemaud said:

Was it ever explained how The Saviors meet the Kingdommers (which is what my TV listing called them, but all I can think of is "dumbers") always meet at a neutral location and not right outside the gates of the Kingdom? Do they know the location?  

I find this another gaping plot hole that I have to handwave. I can't believe for one minute that Negan wouldn't want to see into the Kingdom, see what they got and just what he can get his hands on. 

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, spiderpig said:

One of the things I love best about this forum is the (fun) arguing about what is or is not dramatically real in a show about reanimated dead people chomping on living humans.

If I want reality I'll watch Meet The Press.

Meanwhile - Carol...you go girl!  Glad you're back.  Now you and Morgan get together and show Rick some spine.  (not literally).

I'm still reeling from the news that Shiva is a CGI (CSI? - i don't know anymore) tiger and Ezequiel's dreads are a wig.

Bring it on, PBS.  (and checkout Viceland Channel - which is giving PBS a run for its money).

[ganesh]

27 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I find this another gaping plot hole that I have to handwave. I can't believe for one minute that Negan wouldn't want to see into the Kingdom, see what they got and just what he can get his hands on. 

I was assuming that Negan would stroll into the Kingdom and do his deal, which would lead to them teaming up with the genuises over at CDB to fight. It seems way off that he wouldn't want to see what they're doing there. The only reason I can think of is that the middle manager guy set this whole deal up and Negan doesn't even know about it. 

[notagain]

17 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I was assuming that Negan would stroll into the Kingdom and do his deal, which would lead to them teaming up with the genuises over at CDB to fight. It seems way off that he wouldn't want to see what they're doing there. The only reason I can think of is that the middle manager guy set this whole deal up and Negan doesn't even know about it. 

The fist time we met the Saviors, it was the small group minus Neagan on motorcycles trying to high jack the truck filled with weapons from DAS, so yeah I agree, the small group lead by middle manager guy set the deal up with the kingdom. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by notagain

[ganesh]

The question is whether middle manager told Negan the kingdom exists. Or Negan thinks he's getting magic fruit from somewhere. It's a big wank why he wouldn't be interested in visiting, given he waltzed into ASZ and demanded lemonade and sex. 

[SnarkyTart]

5 hours ago, spiderpig said:

Meanwhile - Carol...you go girl!  Glad you're back.  Now you and Morgan get together and show Rick some spine.  (not literally).

Unless the  literal spine they show Rick belongs to Negan, with a surgically embedded steel rod in it that reveals why he was always, annoyingly, leaning backwards.  That would be fun.