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S07.E13: Bury Me Here


halgia
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Ya know what occurred to me today? I live on the east coast (we had a blizzard today), just some hours above VA which is where TWD is set currently. Uh, how come they have never shown winter? They would get some amount of snow and cold there. Everything would come to a screeching halt regarding food in winter. Some of these people would die, or would have already died at this point due to starvation. That small garden for melons that Zeke was tending to at the end is NOT big enough to supply all the Kingdom and the Saviors. My grandmother had a garden that was 1/2 and acre for a family of 13 and most of her time was spent canning and freezing for the winter. There is a lot of unrealistic stuff on TWD, but their reliance on only showing summer is at a breaking point. They get freaking winter in VA and big snow storms too. For what its' worth, I would like to see some walkers in the snow. Maybe they are afraid that it would look like GoT or something?  In addition, with no snow plows, there is NO WAY that Negan's crew would be able to collect from Alexandria and Hilltop, thereby leaving them alone for some potential amounts of time. 

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4 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

I'm still reeling from the news that Shiva is a CGI (CSI? - i don't know anymore) tiger and Ezequiel's dreads are a wig.

Bring it on, PBS.  (and checkout Viceland Channel - which is giving PBS a run for its money).

I am fixated on Zeke's hair, and it's been driving me crazy trying to think what it reminds me of in all its glorious grayness.  Maybe the air filter from my VW Beetle?

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8 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

I am fixated on Zeke's hair, and it's been driving me crazy trying to think what it reminds me of in all its glorious grayness.  Maybe the air filter from my VW Beetle?

I was thinking along the lines of the lint trap in my dryer, but I like yours better - because you have a VW Beetle!

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I think I have missed something here so can anyone tell me why not one of the Kingdom-ers attempted to pull Morgan off Richard?? I kept waiting for it to happen and they all just stood there while one unarmed man manually strangled another?? 

Edited by BellyLaughter
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5 hours ago, Ohwell said:

Yeah but unless they broke in, they wouldn't have had any choice but to get the message.  I said shouting, just to let them she's alive and well, but she didn't have to open the door. 

They would have broken down the door, and claimed they were worried Carol was being held hostage and forced to tell them to go away.  It's the ZA and these guys bring cobbler.  They so would have broken down the door.

What is King Zeke's long term plan?  He's been telling Richard, etc., that it's better to honor their deal with the Saviors than to start a war.  When Carol told him they had to prepare to fight he agreed, but said not today.  Was it Ben getting killed that changed his mind, or was he planning all along to go to war with the Saviors?

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I'm late catching up with the comments -- Mondays really should be illegal (and Tuesdays aren't much better) -- so my brain is tired and all I can offer are a few very random thoughts:

  • Morgan knows about Eugene, because Rosita mentioned him in "Rock in the Road":   "Abraham. Glenn. Spencer, Olivia. Eugene was taken. They took Daryl. He escaped. Every second he’s out here, he’s a target."
  • Benjamin's little brother's name is Henry.
  • You can't copyright book titles.

Seems to me that an earlier version of PreviouslyTV had a function that allowed you to collect & quote multiple comments. And it was quick & easy.

I know there's still an icon for MultiQuotes, but I can't get it to work. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong...any suggestions? Hints? Incantations? Blood sacrifices? 

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1 hour ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Uh, how come they have never shown winter?

Winter? I can only remember one episode when it RAINED and the group took shelter in a barn (right before Aaron led them to Alexandria.) Yet, last week when Rick and Michonne found the carnival from the roof of the building, it was covered with puddles. 

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7 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I find this another gaping plot hole that I have to handwave. I can't believe for one minute that Negan wouldn't want to see into the Kingdom, see what they got and just what he can get his hands on. 

My halfway-guess is, the the Saviors first contacted the Kingdom on one of the Saviors' earliest attempts to branch out and start empire-building.  The Saviors were not yet very big or strong - but they bluffed their way through making a trade deal with the Kingdom which still stands today.

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Richard's shortsighted plans (he had a similar one involving Carol and hiding weapons) of "if I do this, then this will happen" were beyond stupid and involved a million unseen variables that of course was going to bite him in the butt. That being said, is Morgan just allowed to kill with impunity? He explained his actions but it was his word against the guy he murdered with his bare hands. Even though he's now in self exile, if no one in the Kingdom gives him side eye at all, that's kind of messed up.

Edited by Soobs
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5 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

I was thinking along the lines of the lint trap in my dryer, but I like yours better - because you have a VW Beetle!

Best personality car evah.  Why don't we see any along the roads after the Zombie Apocalypse?  Zeke would look way cool with his dreds poking up out of the sunroof.  Shiva riding shotgun.

No speculation here -  just wondering where the story line might go with Gavin, who appears to have some sort of conscience, and Jared, who's a psychotic killer and all-around hateful. Maybe Negan will talk about it for 3 or 4 episodes. 

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6 hours ago, spiderpig said:

Best personality car evah.  Why don't we see any along the roads after the Zombie Apocalypse?  Zeke would look way cool with his dreds poking up out of the sunroof.  Shiva riding shotgun.

I so want this scene to happen, and I really want a pet Tiger of my own.

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No speculation here -  just wondering where the story line might go with Gavin, who appears to have some sort of conscience, and Jared, who's a psychotic killer and all-around hateful. 

It seems most of Negan's high ranking henchmen are psychos like him.  Gavin is one of the few that it looks like he would prefer to maintain the status quo of collecting tribute as opposed to running around terrorizing people and beating them to death with bats.  However, along with the psychos, there are also the idiots who are to stupid to live that keep screwing things up, so if Gavin does have functioning brain cells, I believe he will end up dead.  Only psychos and idiots are allowed to survive the ZA.

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Maybe Negan will talk about it for 3 or 4 episodes.

Now that's just mean.

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1 hour ago, TigerLynx said:

I so want this scene to happen, and I really want a pet Tiger of my own.

It seems most of Negan's high ranking henchmen are psychos like him.  Gavin is one of the few that it looks like he would prefer to maintain the status quo of collecting tribute as opposed to running around terrorizing people and beating them to death with bats.  However, along with the psychos, there are also the idiots who are to stupid to live that keep screwing things up, so if Gavin does have functioning brain cells, I believe he will end up dead.  Only psychos and idiots are allowed to survive the ZA.

Now that's just mean.

Heeeeeeee! (insert evil grin)

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On 3/12/2017 at 10:09 PM, TigerLynx said:

These people are definitely to stupid to live.  Once again, an innocent person pays for someone else's stupidity.  Richard didn't get Carol killed, he got Ben killed.

You never give up your guns.  Rule number one in the ZA, or anywhere else.  If you are dealing with a dangerous group or person, you do not give up your guns.

YES!!!! I've been saying this for weeks!!! The complete and utter insanity of relinquishing EVERY SINGLE WEAPON YOU HAVE just has to go down as a level of stupidity that would be laughable, if not so tragic. And even Negan couldn't resist commenting on it, but in far cruder terms.

Every week I hope that these people will grow a pair and put an end to this but every week is another disappointment.

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12 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

What is King Zeke's long term plan?  He's been telling Richard, etc., that it's better to honor their deal with the Saviors than to start a war.  When Carol told him they had to prepare to fight he agreed, but said not today.  Was it Ben getting killed that changed his mind, or was he planning all along to go to war with the Saviors?

I think he knew all along that they'd have to fight the Saviors sooner or later, but he was trying to delay that fight as long as possible because he doesn't want to see any more of his people die.  I mean, they lost 8 men, including Ben and Henry's dad, according to Zeke, at one point already.  He said it was while clearing out a building, but I'm assuming it was during their first meeting with the Saviors.  I'm sure Zeke told the rest of the people that it was due to walkers because he didn't want them to know about the evil men on their doorstep - yet another thing to fear in this new world.  But Ezekiel knows that he can only delay the inevitable, not escape it.  And his "but not today" to Carol was his acknowledgement that the day is near, but they need to make plans first, and try to recruit the other outposts to join together.  They can't beat the Saviors along, but get enough villages together, they'll at least have a better chance.

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I haven't read all of the posts here yet, so I apologize for being repetitive.

This was such a powerful episode.  I didn't see Richard's death coming - at least at Morgan's hands.

I know there are many here who have hated the arc for Morgan & Carol and probably are angry that they are getting their warrior-game on again, but I have to confess that I am jubilant.  After they took his sentimental bo-staff (like Daryl's crossbow), I have wanted to wring the neck of that mullet-wearing Savior.  I know it is extremely contrived and too simple to have them return to their warrior status in a single episode/ moment, but I'd much rather this than stretching it out.  And Carol doesn't know just how gruesome Glen/Abe's deaths were.  There has been so much suffering and loss for our CDB group, I want some of that canned kick-assedness back in the game.  And it completely made sense that Morgan lost it over another son-surrogate.  The scene where he named Duane was heartbreaking.   The final moment with the "not today" between Carol & his majesty was poignant too.  I'm glad she didn't have to convince him; he sees what must be done, how there is nothing held sacred (a death over a melon).  But I was also glad to see rat-faced Savior angry and disgusted as well.  

Still not sure which of our gang should be the one to kill Negan (if that actually does happen)... I kind of want them to go all Murder-on-the-Orient-Express about it.  

And a final geeky English teacher moment: in the final shot of Morgan sharpening his bo staff, all I could think of was "He's sharpened the stick at both ends" -- the most awesomely ominous line in Lord of the Flies.  Go get 'em, Morgan.  

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54 minutes ago, Ocean Chick said:

I think he knew all along that they'd have to fight the Saviors sooner or later, but he was trying to delay that fight as long as possible because he doesn't want to see any more of his people die. 

I never really got that impression. I would think if he was biding his time that they would have tipped it off to the audience in some way. I think they're all burying their heads in the sand. I think now they all know it's a tipping point.

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1 hour ago, Ocean Chick said:

I think he knew all along that they'd have to fight the Saviors sooner or later, but he was trying to delay that fight as long as possible because he doesn't want to see any more of his people die. I mean, they lost 8 men, including Ben and Henry's dad, according to Zeke, at one point already.  He said it was while clearing out a building, but I'm assuming it was during their first meeting with the Saviors.  I'm sure Zeke told the rest of the people that it was due to walkers because he didn't want them to know about the evil men on their doorstep - yet another thing to fear in this new world. 

Thank you; I had forgotten the "8 men" mention.

I've seen several opinions voiced that Ezekiel viewed confrontation with the Saviors as an inevitable, and he has simply been biding his time.  I don't think I agree with this.  IMHO Ezekiel is first and foremost a pacifist; while he acknowledged a clash between the Saviors and the Kingdom was always a possibility - heck, a probability even - Zeke hoped the ongoing Saviors tribute would serve as an appeasement program sufficient to forestall any armed conflict for the foreseeable future.  Above all else Zeke wants his people to have lives as easy and peaceful as is possible in the ZA - and in this context, "easy and peaceful" directly equate to "don't rock the boat". 

Not to say Ezekiel couldn't be a warrior king if he so chose - but a helluva lot of circumstances have to pile up to push him into such a course, because it is not one he would willingly choose for himself over other options.

 

1 hour ago, English Teacher said:

And Carol doesn't know just how gruesome Glen/Abe's deaths were.  

Well... Morgan did tell Carol they were beaten to death with a baseball bat.  Don't know how much more specific Morgan can be expected to get, without Polaroids.

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On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 8:29 AM, DEL901 said:

When Morgan told Carol about Glenn and Abraham and the others being killed by Negan and his crew, why didn't he mention that that Eugene had been kidnapped?  Yes, it is tragic they are dead, but Eugene was not as far as Morgan knew.  Why does no one ever mention rescuing him?

he didn't mention that Daryl had been kidnapped either...... imagine  when Carol learns about what happened to him......

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1 hour ago, Nashville said:

IMHO Ezekiel is first and foremost a pacifist; while he acknowledged a clash between the Saviors and the Kingdom was always a possibility - heck, a probability even - Zeke hoped the ongoing Saviors tribute would serve as an appeasement program sufficient to forestall any armed conflict for the foreseeable future. 

To further the point, unlike CDB, who have to go out and "find something interesting" and eventually there's going to be nothing interesting left, the kingdom are growing things and conceivably can produce goods at regular times. So I can easily see how Ezekiel would think 'leave us alone, and we'll give you food' would be a sustainable policy and an eventual clash would be far off at best.

However, it's still shortsighted because crops aren't consistent. I would ask what are they supposed to provide during winter, but there's apparently no winter anymore. Or as we've seen in this episode, an error in the order results in death. I don't really think the guy is stupid, so he's basically accepting that he can avoid a huge conflict and it only costs a few deaths. 

I keep wondering why the middle manager would keep having the ratty guy around because the guy only causes trouble, and clearly, the middle manager just wants to pick up the stuff and go. I can only think it's because Negan doesn't actually know about the kingdom? That seems hard to believe, but I can't imagine he'd meet Ezekiel and not want to see what's up. 

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Negan may have a policy of in order to be a middle manager you have to be able to manage the idiots and psychos under you because if you can't, you will be seen as weak, you will be eliminated and the idiot/psycho causing you problems will get promoted.

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I've always thought there was a strong possibility that the story about losing 8 men clearing a building was just that, an official story that sounded better to the rank and file of Kingdom residents than telling them they had died in a confrontation with armed assholes they were now paying off to stay away.   Ezekiel wants to keep the peace and keep his people alive, so in his mind a dozen melons or stray pigs a week is just the price of doing business.  His entire Wizard of Oz routine and his line this episode that "It's mere luck that we're not all insane" shows that he knows how fragile the line is that allows his people to continue living relatively civilized lives and not give up.  Plus, it's worked out well enough up to this point.

I'm not sure that I agree with the idea that he was simply biding his time either as much as he was hoping that the arrangement with the Saviors could continue indefinitely without incident and it wouldn't come to that.  But now it has and he's also having growing issues with producing "tribute" so there is no more getting around it and the decision has to be made.

As far as the middle manager Gavin goes, maybe that's another satellite outpost situation?  Ezekiel and his people already have an arrangement with the Saviors and haven't given them any trouble or attacked them in the middle of the night so maybe it's not something that's warranted any particular attention from Negan.   I'm guessing after taking out the crew at the outpost, Rick and company forfeited any possibility of only dealing with an underling.

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Oh, he must be an outpost then. I don't think he's been shown at the compound. Not for nothing, but they could have just swapped the focus on Dwight for the middle manager and I would have been fine. 

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The ending was pretty bada** with Morgan sharpening his stick, it was symbolic. Everybody understands now what they have to do, the only thing left is for Tara to (wo)man up and spill the beans, and we'll be ready for the big showdown. Oh boy, I have a feeling we will lose at least another major character, maybe two. Who would you guys peg down as sure goners? I didn't read the comics, so I have no idea how it went down there. Actually, now that I think about it, I think I know something about that storyline. I hope they will choose a dramatically different concluson in the series. 

Edited by Zolo
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Well, it depends on who you count as "major characters".  Rosita and Sasha are up for grabs, going on their little suicide mission, for sure.  I can imagine Gregory from Hilltop won't live much longer - he's a mess.  I hope Ezekiel lives, and Jerry, but I can imagine the writers wanting someone major from each group dying.  Probably Shiva as well, as I can imagine keeping a CGI critter going is a drain on finances and time.  I'm hoping Jadis dies, if only so I don't have to listen to her word salad anymore.

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In terms of not sharing how gruesome, I referred more to the psychological horror of being subjected to watch and how Negan tormented them while selecting who would get it..and then later to have Rick ordered to cut his son's hand off.  And then there is the small point of the baseball bat being covered in barbed wire.  

I felt the reveal to Carol was a bit like ripping a band aid off... Quick, efficient...no build up. But of course, Morgan wasn't there either so he can be even more detached than it involving some people he didn't know that well anyway.  I think it would have been a more powerful and poignant retelling if Rick or even Daryl told her. 

But this I think was better. It was colder in the delivery and therefore a little more shocking to her. IMHO

Edited by English Teacher
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On 3/14/2017 at 8:42 PM, SnarkyTart said:

Unless the  literal spine they show Rick belongs to Negan, with a surgically embedded steel rod in it that reveals why he was always, annoyingly, leaning backwards.  That would be fun.

Hope this anecdote isn't too OT, but my boyfriend Mr. Peanut was in a car accident many years ago and his spine has been out of whack ever since. He is always stretching and doing the leaning back thing. And now it always reminds me of Negan. I get a little residual anxiety that he'll start making a speech.

Edited by The Mighty Peanut
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The Sunday Cable Ratings are in for "Bury Me Here:"

“The Walking Dead” bounced back a little bit from its five-year low on Sunday. The show recorded a 4.9 rating among adults 18-49 and 10.68 million viewers, up from 4.7 and 10.16 million the previous week. It was once again the No. 1 show for the day by a wide margin. [10.676 million viewers]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-cable-ratings-march-12-2017/

And here are the Live + Same Day ratings for Season  7 so far:

10-23-16 “The Day Will Come When You Won’t Be” 17.029 million
10-30-16 “The Well” 12.455 million
11-06-16 “The Cell” 11.721 million
11-13-16 “Service” 11.402 million
11-20-16 “Go Getters” 10.996 million
11-27-16 “Swear” 10.403 million
12-04-16 “Sing Me a Song” 10.481 million
12-11-16 “Hearts Still Beating” 10.583 million

02-12-17 “Rock in the Road” 11.996 million
02-19-17 “New Best Friends” 11.075 million
02-26-17 “Hostiles and Calamities” 10.423 million
03-05-17 “Say Yes” 10.163 million
03-12-17 “Bury Me Here” 10.676 million

Only three episodes to go...

Edited by Raven1707
Corrected numbers for "Say Yes"
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On 3/13/2017 at 11:19 PM, ganesh said:

 

Is a shot in the leg really that fatal? 

 

When this was posted, I was reminded of the school shooting in Townville, SC where 6 year old Jacob Hall was shot in the leg and died from the massive blood loss. 

I'm still on the fence about this season. I was livid when last season ended with such a stupid and gratuitous cliff-hanger. And the first half of this season felt like torture porn. I really have only watched because my husband does. Otherwise, I would have done my own little boycott. But I thought Sunday's episode was pretty good. I like Carol - not because she's a warrior or a leader or even a good fighter. I've always liked that she's a survivor. I thought her "leave me alone" plot was stupid - I don't think the writers really know what to do with her. But I'm hopeful the Carol I like is back. 

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21 hours ago, spiderpig said:

Not a major character, but please have Tara bite it real soon.

I think she will, with all the attention her dull character has been getting.  Once you're a minor, bland character, who goes to having a storyline more important than it deserves, they seem to get offed.  I hope she gets wasted by Barat/Barak/Beirut, or better yet, that guy with the glasses stumbles back to camp and she is a victim of friendly fire, like Stonewall Jackson.   

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9 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

I think she will, with all the attention her dull character has been getting.  Once you're a minor, bland character, who goes to having a storyline more important than it deserves, they seem to get offed.  I hope she gets wasted by Barat/Barak/Beirut, or better yet, that guy with the glasses stumbles back to camp and she is a victim of friendly fire, like Stonewall Jackson.   

She is so annoying I want her demise to be epic.

Open for bids.

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56 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

 Once you're a minor, bland character, who goes to having a storyline more important than it deserves, they seem to get offed.

Just ask Beth. I still have no idea what Tara was babbling about to poor Judith. She's so boring that when she starts talking I go into a daze/doze.

56 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

better yet, that guy with the glasses stumbles back to camp and she is a victim of friendly fire, like Stonewall Jackson.   

Oh, shit. Now that's funny.

ETA: I think they've turned Daryl into a mute mope and boring non-entity so they can bump him off without the fangirls, panties all in a twist,  storming the office with pitchforks and torches.

Edited by AngelaHunter
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On 3/16/2017 at 0:12 PM, The Mighty Peanut said:

He is always stretching and doing the leaning back thing. And now it always reminds me of Negan. I get a little residual anxiety that he'll start making a speech....

Or start wearing a bright scarf with a leather jacket???

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On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 9:54 PM, BellyLaughter said:

oI think I have missed something here so can anyone tell me why not one of the Kingdom-ers attempted to pull Morgan off Richard?? I kept waiting for it to happen and they all just stood there while one unarmed man manually strangled another?? 

I think the main Savior guy thought Long hair was going to shoot Richard,  they wanted him dead so they were happy Morgan went after him.  

To me this wasn't a very good episode.  Benjamin had an "I'm gonna die" sign on him for a long time.  Who cares if your friends died from Alexandria,  some new people mean more obviously.  Morgan I can get a little more since he lost his son but I'm tired of Carol.  she had become my fave but now I don't care.

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The Cable Live +3 ratings are in for "Bury Me Here":

“The Walking Dead” is No. 1 in both measures, as it almost always is, with a 6.4 rating in the 18-49 demographic and 13.682 million viewers.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/cable-live-3-ratings-for-march-6-12-2017/

Here are the Live + Same Day and Live +3 ratings for Season 7 so far:

10-23-16 “The Day Will Come When You Won’t Be” 17.029 million; 20.793 million
10-30-16 “The Well” 12.455 million; 16.849 million
11-06-16 “The Cell” 11.721 million; 16.225 million
11-13-16 “Service” 11.402 million; 15.718 million
11-20-16 “Go Getters” 10.996 million; 15.267 million
11-27-16 “Swear” 10.403 million; 14.275 million
12-04-16 “Sing Me a Song” 10.481 million; 14.940 million
12-11-16 “Hearts Still Beating” 10.583 million; 15.198 million

02-12-17 “Rock in the Road” 11.996 million; 15.932 million
02-19-17 “New Best Friends” 11.075 million; 15.243 million
02-26-17 “Hostiles and Calamities” 10.423 million; 14.740 million
03-05-17 “Say Yes” 10.163 million; 13.669 million
03-12-17 “Bury Me Here” 10.676 million; 13.682 million

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I'm a week late as I was on vaca and only now watched with this episode. Funny that a show that used to be can't miss TV is now the lowest show on the totem pole for me to catch up on. I literally watched very other thing I had taped except this. And I'm honestly only here to complain about the non existent logic which i really ought to be used to by now. Gas would be like gold in this apocalypse yet the Hilltoppers drove an empty truck with only 12, scratch that, 11 melons to some ridiculous meeting point--with another vehicle as if they couldn't have fit the entire crew in the back of the truck with the damn melons. And the Negans also traveled all that way for....a few MELONS!!! How can I enjoy the drama of the show when i can't get past ridiculous stuff like this? Or the lack of seasons that was mentioned above. Or the fact that you never hear generators running and people leave lights burning as if it were no big thing. Would be nice to see an apocalypse show where all of these things are included. I understand that those measly 12 melons were symbolic of how the tiniest detail could set off the Negans and how a person died over lack of a single melon. Yes, I do get it. But I can't get past the ridiculousness so...I don't know, after the battle at the end of the season--and they'd better get to the battle--I think I'm finished watching. This dog just don't hunt no more.

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The Cable Live +7 ratings are in for "Bury Me Here":

As usual, “The Walking Dead” was the biggest total gainer, although it wasn’t quite as big as usual. Its 18-49 rating grew by 2.0 points (4.9 to 6.9) — previous episodes since its February return have all grown by at least 2.1 — and 3.74 million viewers. [14.430 million viewers]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/cable-live-7-ratings-for-march-6-12-2017/

Here are the Live + Same Day, Live +3, and Live +7 ratings for Season 7 so far:

10-23-16 “The Day Will Come When You Won’t Be” 17.029 million; 20.793 million; 21.528 million
10-30-16 “The Well” 12.455 million; 16.849 million; 17.947 million
11-06-16 “The Cell” 11.721 million; 16.225 million; 17.208 million
11-13-16 “Service” 11.402 million; 15.718 million; not reported
11-20-16 “Go Getters” 10.996 million; 15.267 million; 16.308 million
11-27-16 “Swear” 10.403 million; 14.275 million; 15.096 million
12-04-16 “Sing Me a Song” 10.481 million; 14.940 million; 15.776 million
12-11-16 “Hearts Still Beating” 10.583 million; 15.198 million; 16.020 million

02-12-17 “Rock in the Road” 11.996 million; 15.932 million; 16.837 million
02-19-17 “New Best Friends” 11.075 million; 15.243 million; 16.171 million
02-26-17 “Hostiles and Calamities” 10.423 million; 14.740 million; 15.756 million
03-05-17 “Say Yes” 10.163 million; 13.669 million; not reported
03-12-17 “Bury Me Here” 10.676 million; 13.682 million; 14.430 million

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