Chicago Justice - General Discussion

[watcher1006]

I can believe that real estate developers can be callous in how they treat their workers and might compromise their safety in the interests of getting projects done in time and within/below budget but deliberately dropping a crane/beam onto a city street? How could anyone know how many people could be hurt/killed? I know that they had a plan to make the crane operator the scapegoat, but the possible legal costs, both criminal and civil, seemed to be open-ended. Even if the scapegoating scheme worked that wouldn't have necessarily gotten the developer off the hook.

Edited May 15, 2017 by watcher1006
Addition

[misstwpherecool]

Another program not giving me enough tv show with my political subtext.

[Waterston Fan]

This was okay but you know this was about Donald Trump somehow and I didn't really care for that part. 

[shksabelle]

I assume Dick Wolf will work an not- so-thinly-veiled Trump character/storyline into all his shows. 

[Xeliou66]

The episode's villain was definitely based on Trump, with his massive ego,numerous bankruptcies and family empire, but overall an interesting finale episode, it definitely held my interest from start to finish with good performances from everyone except Valdez. 

My main complaint with the episode was the writing of it was rushed, I would've liked much more trial testimony from various witnesses about the defendant's business and the evidence against him, and I didn't understand the whole plea agreement that Jefferies wanted to accept and Stone found a way around, it didn't make sense. I really think this episode would've been better off had it been a 2 parter, and last weeks stupid episode should've just been eliminated to make room for a 2 part season finale. Then we would've had time to fully explore the story, get a lot more trial scenes, and explore the aspects of the case fully, as it was interesting. 

I was glad they used Jefferies more this week, but I would've liked more explanation of his relationship with the Frank character, and I wondered about what his comment at the end meant when he said something about Frank having dirt on people there and I wondered if he meant Frank had dirt on members of the club that they were having drinks at or if he had dirt on members of SA's office. Another thing that could've been explored more had it been a 2 hour episode.

Stone's rant at Frank at the opera benefit was funny and a good ploy but I'm surprised Frank's lawyer didn't try to have Stone removed from the case because she could claim he crossed a line and was harassing Frank, which he basically was.

Valdez's acting in the scene where she confronted the son at the elevator was laughably bad. I truly think that the actress playing Valdez is the worst I've ever seen as a regular on TV, she just has no idea how to convey any sort of emotion and is constantly smirking. 

Overall, this is just an average show. It is had its bright spots and 2 very good lead characters in Stone and Jefferies, and the Dawson and Nagel pairing has grown on me once I've gotten past the unrealistic nature of what they are doing, but every episode seems to have writing inconsistencies, sometimes downright stupid scripts and Valdez is just awful and needs to be replaced if the show comes back. Overall, I will still watch if the show comes back for season 2 but I won't be upset if it gets canceled. 

[paigow]

Note to 1% members: When framing someone from the 99% for drug use, do not get it from your own stash....

[themadman]

Yeah, this show is weaksauce. Not returning for next season. I groaned when the dude had a Code Red moment.

Phillip Winchester needs to find another show where he can show off his physique and sport his British accent (hello Strike Back.)

Edited May 16, 2017 by themadman

[Dowel Jones]

Look on the bright side.  At least Boden made it through an entire episode without being threatened by the CFD brass.

[greyhorse]

The guy that played the obvious Trump reference (Linden?) is the same actor that played Marty Stein on what I'm guessing is the very little watched Rogue on Audience TV.  Pretty much the same character.  Laughed that the son even looks like Donald Jr. and that the curtains were gold as well.

Basically his ego got him in trouble.  He didn't need to get on the stand.  But he wanted to have the last word against Stone.

If this show gets cancelled, does Dawson go back to PD?

[TobinAlbers]

Pissed off Peter Stone crashing FauxTrump's party and heckling him was highly unprofessional but is the kind of Gives No Clucks angle that I love seeing Phillip Winchester play. Having that dichotomy lurking underneath the 'buttoned down' professional Peter is a good move. He's been in your face before but this was slipping into reckless territory.

I actually did a mental fist pumped when Valdez put FauxTrump in his place when he talked down to her and she reminded him that she was a state's attorney. It was the one time her smugness was used for good and not for annoying the crap out of me.

[CaptainTightpants]

I have to admit that I didn't watch the entire episode. I got about halfway through and just skipped to the wrap-up.

I'm having a hard time understanding why this show is not more compelling. For the most part the cast is solid, and I really like a few of the actors from other shows I've seen them in. And some of the guest stars have been very good, Richard Schiff is always a favourite of mine. 

But Justice is not doing it for me. Unless the next season gets much better feedback from you folks I think I may just give it a pass and hope to see the cast in more interesting shows in the future. I really wish they had spent more time developing the characters more, instead of on outlandish cases. 

And one last thing, what is it with everyone always asking Stone if he is married/has kids? Do people really do that so often? I've only come across this a couple times in my life, and this guy seem to get asked every episode. 

[Waterston Fan]

So, any official word? 

[Chas411]

Nothing 

[kassygreene]

The actor playing Linden is Richard Schiff, Toby Ziegler in The West Wing, and generally freaking brilliant in every part he plays.

[Artsda]

‘Chicago Justice’ Canceled By NBC After One Season

http://deadline.com/2017/05/chicago-justice-canceled-nbc-one-season-1202099623/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[CelticBlackCat]

Well that puts this one to rest its case.  I'm glad I only watched the one episode and didn't waste time on the rest like I meant to.

[Elliebab]

Everybody happy now? No more Antonio dawson, no more Jeffries and no more Nagel and no more stone. let me take out the wine glass. 

[Chas411]

Was it really that bad?

[WendyCR72]

I wonder how much financials played a part in this decision. As mentioned in the article, none of the Chicago franchise shows have been successfully sold into syndication, which used to be a given as little as five years ago for the likes of procedurals, yet now a hard sell because of so many shows and so many different viewing outlets.

Chicago Fire and Chicago PD should, time wise, have such deals, but again, the changing landscape means Dick Wolf will likely not dominate off-network with the second franchise. But, had they been, the revenue from them perhaps could have been enough to keep Chicago Justice afloat. I say this because its ratings seemed pretty comparable, IMO.

But without any syndication money, keeping all four shows was obviously not an option.

As an aside, with this failure, a part of me wonders if any Law & Order revival talk will start up again. In a way, I hope not. I'll be unpopular and say that reboots rarely work and there's always a chance for the reboot to taint the original series.

[Chas411]

Agreed about above reboots - Dallas and 90210 are good examples of that.

With this cancellation and moving midseason I think it's safe to say that NBCs love of the Chicago franchise is probably easing up.

[Raja]

4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I wonder how much financials played a part in this decision. As mentioned in the article, none of the Chicago franchise shows have been successfully sold into syndication, which used to be a given as little as five years ago for the likes of procedurals, yet now a hard sell because of so many shows and so many different viewing outlets.

Chicago Fire and Chicago PD should, time wise, have such deals, but again, the changing landscape means Dick Wolf will likely not dominate off-network with the second franchise. But, had they been, the revenue from them perhaps could have been enough to keep Chicago Justice afloat. I say this because its ratings seemed pretty comparable, IMO.

But without any syndication money, keeping all four shows was obviously not an option.

As an aside, with this failure, a part of me wonders if any Law & Order revival talk will start up again. In a way, I hope not. I'll be unpopular and say that reboots rarely work and there's always a chance for the reboot to taint the original series.

Those other reboots focused on the personalities where as Law & Order focused on the procedure with the various detectives and ADAs over the decades. If anything can be reprieved Law & Order is it. It is obvious that was what the plan with Chicago Justice, but in a city with Sergeant Voight and the Torture Squad running around so they made the SA's investigators regular police detectives it just didn't fit with the more  realistic feeling the L&O mothership had.

I wouldn't mind Mr Stone moving back home for a reprise, it is a shame that trick was already pulled in an attempt to jump start Law & Order Los Angeles in the second half of its run. I know it goes against my personalities argument but Winchester's channeling the portrayal of the fictional father was the highlight of the series for me.

[FnkyChkn34]

6 hours ago, Elliebab said:

Everybody happy now? No more Antonio dawson, no more Jeffries and no more Nagel and no more stone. let me take out the wine glass. 

Why would people be happy?  And what's wrong with Dawson, Jeffries, Nagel, and Stone?  The worst actress/character on Justice was Valdez.  I like Dawson and hope he goes back to PD.  Stone and Nagel can continue to make cameo appearances too as far as I'm concerned.

[Waterston Fan]

Not surprised but I sure hope that Philip gets another acting gig, I want to see how good he can be with good writing. Guess I better go find him on twitter, huh? lol :) 

[sockii]

I for one am bummed about the cancellation. I know a lot of other people here only seemed to hate-watch it (or snark without watching it at all) but I actually enjoyed the L&O callbacks, most of the cast, and felt it had the chance to get better. I certainly wish they'd given it at least a second (half) season versus bringing back the shippy melodrama mess of unlikable characters that Chicago Med became this season...

[MakeMeLaugh]

So long farewell auf wiedersehen goodbye. I like the Chicago franchise a lot but the writing for this show was not up to par with the rest of them imo, especially compared to the first seasons of the other shows. As I said before, these are elite actors with plenty of connections--if they cannot get other parts, I guess they will have to find other work to do, like people in the real world do. My favorite actor, Joelle Carter, can certainly do better than this Nagel character imo. I am pretty sure Jon Seda can return to PD. 

I found this original cast for the pilot (https://tvline.com/2016/01/20/pilot-season-abc-cbs-cw-fox-nbc-2016-2017/6/):  

Quote

Philip Winchester (The Player), Joelle Carter (Justified), Nazneen Contractor (Heroes Reborn), Carl Weathers (Rocky), guest star Lorraine Toussaint (Rosewood, Orange Is the New Black), Ryan-James Hatanaka.

Jon Seda was a replacement for Ryan-James Hatanaka, and whoever played Valdez took Nazneen Contractor's part. 

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, Raja said:

Those other reboots focused on the personalities where as Law & Order focused on the procedure with the various detectives and ADAs over the decades. If anything can be reprieved Law & Order is it. It is obvious that was what the plan with Chicago Justice, but in a city with Sergeant Voight and the Torture Squad running around so they made the SA's investigators regular police detectives it just didn't fit with the more  realistic feeling the L&O mothership had.

I wouldn't mind Mr Stone moving back home for a reprise, it is a shame that trick was already pulled in an attempt to jump start Law & Order Los Angeles in the second half of its run. I know it goes against my personalities argument but Winchester's channeling the portrayal of the fictional father was the highlight of the series for me.

Right on, this show just didn't fit in the Chicago universe, which I said all along. They wanted this show to be the next L&O, however L&O is way different ( and better ) than the Chicago shows. L&O was all about the cases and the stories, and they did a great job of showing the complexities of the justice system and the many shades of grey that it has. The Chicago shows are more about the personal lives and the hook ups of the various characters, as well as chases, shootouts and explosions, and a show like Chicago PD portrays a very black and white world where torture is good and cops are always right. So to have a show like Justice, which was clearly hailed as the successor to L&O, in this universe was a very poor fit, as there can't be justice or realism as long as Voight is allowed to roam free and be judge, jury and executioner of everyone in Chicago.

So having a show like this was very out of place on the Chicago franchise and so the whole show was some kind of weird mashup of L&O and the Chicago shows that just didn't work. Stuff like Nagel's custody battle and whatever Valdez's relationship with the judge was had no place on an L&O type show and was very off putting to fans like me, and the writing was just subpar. Very frequently the cases were won because of trickery or some kind of deus ex machina ending after a weak case with weak writing, and sometimes the writing didn't make any sense at all and constantly contradicted itself. With stronger writing the show might've succeeded, as they did a pretty good job of making this show separate from PD after the first 2 episodes. And the first episodes were a big problem in itself, the stark differences between this show and CPD make having closely related stories a bad idea, like I say, there is no justice while Voight is on the lose, and having 3 episodes within a week on different days made it hard for viewers to keep up with when it was on and probably lowered the ratings.

Stone was a good lead, but Valdez was awful, the investigators took some time to gel, Nagel became annoying with her personal problems and Antonio seemed like a better fit on PD, he was just kind of there on Justice, not getting a whole lot to do, but I thought the Dawson-Nagel team gelled by the end, and Jefferies was good but he was very underused at least in the first half of the season, he had like 2 scenes per episode. 

Overall this show was an odd fit in the franchise and it suffered from poor writing and a bad air time. It could've been better, but it was okay and I think it deserved renewal over the soapy pathetic Chicago Med. And I have to say, it was really great to see Paul Robinette again and have scenes with Peter Stone.

[watcher1006]

20 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Right on, this show just didn't fit in the Chicago universe, which I said all along. They wanted this show to be the next L&O, however L&O is way different ( and better ) than the Chicago shows. L&O was all about the cases and the stories, and they did a great job of showing the complexities of the justice system and the many shades of grey that it has. The Chicago shows are more about the personal lives and the hook ups of the various characters, as well as chases, shootouts and explosions, and a show like Chicago PD portrays a very black and white world where torture is good and cops are always right. So to have a show like Justice, which was clearly hailed as the successor to L&O, in this universe was a very poor fit, as there can't be justice or realism as long as Voight is allowed to roam free and be judge, jury and executioner of everyone in Chicago.

So having a show like this was very out of place on the Chicago franchise and so the whole show was some kind of weird mashup of L&O and the Chicago shows that just didn't work. Stuff like Nagel's custody battle and whatever Valdez's relationship with the judge was had no place on an L&O type show and was very off putting to fans like me, and the writing was just subpar. Very frequently the cases were won because of trickery or some kind of deus ex machina ending after a weak case with weak writing, and sometimes the writing didn't make any sense at all and constantly contradicted itself. With stronger writing the show might've succeeded, as they did a pretty good job of making this show separate from PD after the first 2 episodes. And the first episodes were a big problem in itself, the stark differences between this show and CPD make having closely related stories a bad idea, like I say, there is no justice while Voight is on the lose, and having 3 episodes within a week on different days made it hard for viewers to keep up with when it was on and probably lowered the ratings.

SA office investigators shouldn't have had the primary role as detectives in a criminal investigation except under special circumstances, or as a follow up. They might have done the show differently, had cases handed to the office by the police, preferably not by the Intelligence Unit, or perhaps Dawson and Nagel could have been part of a different unit?

I've been watching Chicago P.D. but am having increasing trouble continuing to do so, because Voight's "old school" methods seem so out of touch with the national focus in recent years on police brutality. Suspects still get beat up on scene and at the department, at least we haven't had as many "silo interrogations" this season. In the real world smartphone videos are showing up everywhere. Sooner or later the rule breakers have to get caught.

I wonder if a pure procedural like the original "Law and Order" can succeed in today's TV land. It seems like the creators of these shows feel that they have to get the audience interested in the personal lives of the main characters in order to keep them coming back every week. Even the original L&O occasionally veered off in such a direction.

[Xeliou66]

I think the original L&O could succeed, it was an intelligent, terrific show that was all about the plot. The Chicago shows are very dumbed down procedurals, that are more soap opera like and very one sided. I watch PD sometimes but I hate the Voight character and it is really offensive how torture is portrayed in a positive light all the time, and it's ridiculous that Voight was allowed back on the force, much less get a promotion, after trying to put a hit on a fireman, and also the shows best characters get almost nothing ( Olinsky, Ruzek, Atwater and Dawson who's gone ) while they give endless stories to Lindsay and her uninteresting personal life.  

The whole SA investigator thing was confusing and it didn't make much sense at first, they straightened it out towards the end but they should've done it better. Also Mark Jefferies got totally wasted in about half the episodes, which was a shame as he was probably the most interesting character. 

[MakeMeLaugh]

Original L&O worked imo because there was plenty of plot and settings--not a lot of dead time or filler as it was a two-part show, and NYC was a character unto itself (and I don't even like NYC but so perfectly a part of the show). Hardly any weak characters until Adam Schiff left imo, either--just phenomenal acting, from the extras to the guest stars to the regulars. Justice had none of that feel to me and all the cases were homicides but the "investigators" weren't supposed to be homicide detectives. I think Med has problems too with its limited settings and storylines and I won't be surprised or too sad if it follows Justice next year into the ether. 

[rove4]

I hope to see Philip Winchester on my tv again soon, preferably as a gun wielding badass.  Or maybe I'm just missing Strike Back.

It's too bad he just missed out on the current pilot season but a Dick Wolf show seemed like a sure thing.  NBC renewed several shows that had lower ratings. Go figure.

[SuzieQ]

Although this was my least favorite of the Chicago shows, I still enjoyed it and am bummed it got canceled, especially since lower rated shows got renewed.  IMO, it was not trying to be Law and Order. It was clearly it's own entity and for whatever reason, since it wasn't ratings, NBC chose to cancel it.

Edited May 24, 2017 by SuzieQ

[Tetraneutron]

17 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

Although this was my least favorite of the Chicago shows, I still enjoyed it and am bummed it got canceled, especially since lower rated shows got renewed.  IMO, it was not trying to be Law and Order. It was clearly it's own entity and for whatever reason, since it wasn't ratings, NBC chose to cancel it.

I thought it was clearly trying to be original "Law & Order". The main character was the son of the main character on the original series, for one, and the first three episodes had recurring characters from the original show pop up as guest stars even though it made no sense. Like what, a Legal Aid lawyer, a defense lawyer (apparently turned judge) and a prosecutor turned defender just decided to move states and start their careers over in late middle age? And almost every episode mentioned Peter Stone's dad. When has any show ever paid so much attention to an unseen relative of a main character?

The reason the original "Law & Order" worked (at least for the first half of its run) and this one didn't, was two reasons.

1) Better acting in the original. I mean, most of the actors here were fine, but they weren't as good as the original cast. But far more importantly . .

2) BETTER WRITING HOLY JESUS THE WRITING ON THIS SHOW WAS BAD.

[SuzieQ]

2 hours ago, Tetraneutron said:

I thought it was clearly trying to be original "Law & Order". The main character was the son of the main character on the original series, for one, and the first three episodes had recurring characters from the original show pop up as guest stars even though it made no sense. Like what, a Legal Aid lawyer, a defense lawyer (apparently turned judge) and a prosecutor turned defender just decided to move states and start their careers over in late middle age? And almost every episode mentioned Peter Stone's dad. When has any show ever paid so much attention to an unseen relative of a main character?

 

I agree that it paid homage to L&O, especially since they have the same creator.  The vibe of the show seemed different though.  L&O was so structured and rarely strayed from that format.  CJ didn't seem to be tied so tightly to that.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, Tetraneutron said:

I thought it was clearly trying to be original "Law & Order". The main character was the son of the main character on the original series, for one, and the first three episodes had recurring characters from the original show pop up as guest stars even though it made no sense. Like what, a Legal Aid lawyer, a defense lawyer (apparently turned judge) and a prosecutor turned defender just decided to move states and start their careers over in late middle age? And almost every episode mentioned Peter Stone's dad. When has any show ever paid so much attention to an unseen relative of a main character?

The reason the original "Law & Order" worked (at least for the first half of its run) and this one didn't, was two reasons.

1) Better acting in the original. I mean, most of the actors here were fine, but they weren't as good as the original cast. But far more importantly . .

2) BETTER WRITING HOLY JESUS THE WRITING ON THIS SHOW WAS BAD.

Agreed completely. This show was trying to be L&O and it failed for a few reasons, number 1 being the writing. A lot of the episodes just didn't make sense and were written very poorly and had lots of errors and plot holes that you could drive an 18 wheeler through. It's really not surprising because the Chicago Franchise is a really dumbed down type of show that focuses almost all on soapy relationships and shocking explosions, chases and shootouts, L&O was one of the best written shows ever, the Chicago shows are just like many other interchangeable relationship-drama centered shows, so it was a poor fit. And yeah it was really weird how the first 3 episodes had 3 L&O characters show up, and only Robinette was given an explanation ( he wasn't living in Chicago by the way, he just got called in from NY to defend Atwater as he has taken on controversial racial stuff before ). But no explanation for Shambala Green and Danielle Melnick, how did Melnick become an Illinois judge, and she wasn't even mentioned except for her nameplate. I bet most people didn't even know who she was. 

Also, a show about people trying to achieve justice and upholding the law cannot co exist with Voight being portrayed as a good guy for torturing people and being a bully who breaks the law every episode. That is not okay or admirable and Voight cannot be allies with characters who are about upholding the law and getting justice, nor is it realistic that Voight would be allowed to run wild like that after being locked up for putting a hit out on a fireman! Stone did stand up to Voight and didn't use his obviously false confession claim in the pilot episode, which was nice to see, but Voight and PD's appearance hurt the realism of the show. It didn't help that the first 2 episodes directly involved PD, they should've been separate from it completely. 

The actors were fine except for the actress playing Valdez, she was one of the worst actresses I've ever seen, and she had a constant smirk on her face and acted very superior to everyone involved. She was put in to be popular with the young, upper class 20 something female crowd, everything she said espoused their views and she was just there to attract that demo

[MakeMeLaugh]

18 hours ago, Tetraneutron said:

I thought it was clearly trying to be original "Law & Order". The main character was the son of the main character on the original series, for one, and the first three episodes had recurring characters from the original show pop up as guest stars even though it made no sense. Like what, a Legal Aid lawyer, a defense lawyer (apparently turned judge) and a prosecutor turned defender just decided to move states and start their careers over in late middle age? And almost every episode mentioned Peter Stone's dad. When has any show ever paid so much attention to an unseen relative of a main character?

The reason the original "Law & Order" worked (at least for the first half of its run) and this one didn't, was two reasons.

1) Better acting in the original. I mean, most of the actors here were fine, but they weren't as good as the original cast. But far more importantly . .

2) BETTER WRITING HOLY JESUS THE WRITING ON THIS SHOW WAS BAD.

I heart your post so much! Re my bolded parts: I wonder if Show was trying to woo Michael Moriarty into a guest appearance or recurring role. Ratings would have gone through the roof although there surely is no chance in hell he would do it.

[Raja]

Given the PD torture squad maybe the show would have worked if State's Attorney Jefferies was shown in the mob's pocket. ASA Valdez and the murdered judge were running a side escort agency. Investigators Nagel and Dawson were actively suppressing the evidence of Voight and his merry men evil deeds. And then one man, Mr Stone was still trying to do the right thing with all the official interference. Then the show would have fit in with the established Chicago franchise.

[Xeliou66]

On May 26, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Raja said:

Given the PD torture squad maybe the show would have worked if State's Attorney Jefferies was shown in the mob's pocket. ASA Valdez and the murdered judge were running a side escort agency. Investigators Nagel and Dawson were actively suppressing the evidence of Voight and his merry men evil deeds. And then one man, Mr Stone was still trying to do the right thing with all the official interference. Then the show would have fit in with the established Chicago franchise.

Bingo!! This show just didn't fit in the Chicago franchise, as it was clearly trying to be L&O with the format and the appearance of L&O characters, it was hailed as the new L&O by the writers. But an L&O type show that is about realism and the format of cops and DA's following the law and getting justice with little personal crap doesn't work on a franchise that is all about relationship drama and Voight and his minions torturing and as using suspects and breaking the law every episode. It's impossible to reconcile a show about justice with a show that is nothing more than pro torture propaganda, it's impossible to see a good guy like Stone being an ally with scum like Voight. It just didn't work. 

[watcher1006]

One of the most prominent tensions in the original Law and Order was that between the detectives who had to arrest the suspects and establish the original evidence for the charges, and the prosecutors who had to present the cases in criminal court to get convictions. Many times there were dustups between the two teams, the detectives claiming they had to do their job, the ADAs admonishing them for not doing things by the book which would result in evidence, confessions, and so on being inadmissible in the trial. Pretrial motions were often the transition between the two sections of the Law and Order episodes. How many times in that old show did we hear the phrase "fruit of the poisoned tree"? The way Voight operates, you'd think a number of his "closed cases" would get thrown out in those pretrial motions. If a high percentage of the Intelligence Unit's cases did result in convictions, I would think that that unit and perhaps also Chicago court system would come under Federal scrutiny for Fourth Amendment violations and whatnot.

[subina167]

I have been following him since Homicide: Life on the Streets. I was OK with his moving to Justice from PD because I assumed I'd like Justice. I was wrong and was bored to death. Obviously I don't stand alone as it has been canceled. Will /can Jon Seda go back to PD?  He was my fave on PD.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 4/19/2017 at 0:36 AM, Xeliou66 said:

I thought that the professor was going to have had more to do with the murder as well. Like I said, the episode had way too much crammed in. The Amanda Knox story should've been a seperate episode, this one should've been all about the toxic culture on lots of college campuses and gun control. 

Catching up on these episodes, I wonder if they tried to mash the two plots together since they were trying to show some kind of parallel about how the right to carry a gun and the right not to be put on trial twice for the same crime are (I think) rights protected in the US constitution.

Also (and kind of shallow) but with all the talk about how Abigail Chapman's case only got coverage because she was gorgeous, they should have cast someone way hotter to play her.

[WendyCR72]

Ben Stone's progeny, Peter Stone, lives on. Philip Winchester is joining SVU and is reprising Peter Stone.

[Impish Dragon]

Fudge.  I may have to start watching SVU again.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 24/04/2017 at 10:17 PM, colorfulcoils said:

I don't get the turning off the cell phones thing as gang members can probably steal other cell phones to use them.

It really made me think of The Wire. Just considering how cheap/easy it is to get a pre-paid burner would that court injunction really stop any of those gang members from being on social media.

Also how would that fake trial work? Most of my legal knowledge comes from Law and Order,  but didn't that guy just incriminate himself without being read his rights and without having access to a lawyer? So how could  any of his testimony be used against him?

[Kel Varnsen]

On 5/1/2017 at 9:56 PM, CaptainTightpants said:

I too found this episode to be lacking plot-wise. The wife was unsympathetic from my point of view. Her reasoning for not even slowing down after she hit the Alderman was "someone else would call 911. " I thought she should have done time just for that. 

I was wondering, if she said she couldn't call 911 because she was on the phone to her husband/the kidnapper the whole time, did he hear the collision of car with Alderman. She hit the guy hard enough where I would think there would have been some sound that would have been picked up on a phone in handsfree mode. If so did he ask what that noise was, did she try to explain it. How quickly would the whole thing fallen apart if he had asked and she mentioned that she hit someone and he went flying and she is not sure if he is dead.

On 5/8/2017 at 0:32 PM, spammie said:

I think Ted finally succeeds in giving his ex a big lesson as he goes to prison for 20 years. His ex and daughter were having extravagant lives only with alimony and child support. As their source of income goes to prison, she now faces the real harsh reality where she has to make money on her own.

That was the one thing I am surprised they didn't really mention. I imagine you can't pay alimony from jail, so a comment about that would have been a more interesting way to wrap things up. I am surprised the two defense lawyers didn't try to swing something for the benefit of both their clients because of that.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 5/8/2017 at 9:08 PM, fireice13 said:

I just can't believe in the current climate, especially in Chicago, a diverse jury would vote not guilty on all counts. It's absolutely unbelievable. He shouldn't be relieved either, because he's got a target on his back from at least one gang. I was just disgusted with the way the cops spoke about those people and how they were doing their job, while enjoying the due process their victims never got. This episode made me really angry because they didn't give us any reason why the jury would acquit and made the defendants horrible, horrible human beings.

I just watched this and as much as I don't want them winning every case this shouldn't have been the one to lose. I wish they had made a point of showing jury selection since how the hell could Stone not find at least a few people who at least didn't trust cops?  Did he let Valdez handle jury selection and she loaded the jury with corrupt former cops?

On 5/13/2017 at 2:28 PM, Xeliou66 said:

And can you imagine the riots that would occur in real life if this happened? Remember Baltimore and Ferguson, well imagine a cop admitting to killing 3 black drug dealers in cold blood and getting off, this would be a nightmare for Chicago and none of that was ever even addressed. 

That's a good point that I hadn't even really thought of. The Rodney King riots lasted 6 days over officers getting acquitted of using excessive force. This was a cop who murdered multiple people, one on tape and was acquitted. And Rodney King was 25 years ago, with how much more aware people are of police corruption and brutality, it is not hard to imagine that the riot after this type of case being just terrible.  

Edited September 23, 2017 by Kel Varnsen

[Kel Varnsen]

On 5/15/2017 at 11:26 PM, Xeliou66 said:

The episode's villain was definitely based on Trump, with his massive ego,numerous bankruptcies and family empire, but overall an interesting finale episode, it definitely held my interest from start to finish with good performances from everyone except Valdez. 

Interesting that the Trump character shows how this show stands in the hierarchy of current Dick Wolf shows. I mean Law and Order SVU produced an episode with a Trump based character as the bad guy last season and NBC buried it. When Chicago Justice does the same thing it appears that no one gives a shit.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Interesting that the Trump character shows how this show stands in the hierarchy of current Dick Wolf shows. I mean Law and Order SVU produced an episode with a Trump based character as the bad guy last season and NBC buried it. When Chicago Justice does the same thing it appears that no one gives a shit.

Was the scheduled air date of the SVU episode before the general election?

[Kel Varnsen]

20 hours ago, Raja said:

Was the scheduled air date of the SVU episode before the general election?

It was, but even after the election there seems that NBC has no interest in playing the episode.