S18.E11: Great Expectations

[WendyCR72]

The SVU investigates the players of a top youth hockey team after a vicious locker room hazing.

[Spartan Girl]

Another week, another horrific parent.

Those poor kids. At least the older brother was willing to stand up to protect his family. Tricking his dad into besting him up on camera...that took guts.

My poor baby Carisi. He was right about why it's so hard to get victims of bullying/abuse to come forward.

[SuzieQ]

This was a decent episode.  I like the actor who played the Dad.  He was in The Killing too.  He plays a good bad guy or a good guy.

I'm afraid his son is ruined for life! Some parents do horrible things to their kids thinking they are helping them.

[RafaelBarbas]

I am so tired of the writers trying to make Carisi a literally perfect human as a form of pandering to the audience. Like of course he was bullied! That just makes him more perfect and thus a better character, right? Having no flaws at all makes him good, right?????

[Gigglepuff]

Have all the SVU characters been abused and/or bullied in their youth? 

[SuzieQ]

1 minute ago, RafaelBarbas said:

I am so tired of the writers trying to make Carisi a literally perfect human as a form of pandering to the audience. Like of course he was bullied! That just makes him more perfect and thus a better character, right? Having no flaws at all makes him good, right?????

I'm probably one of the few who doesn't worship Carisi.  He's ok, but I don't see anything all that special  or interesting about him.

[Xeliou66]

Good episode, one of season 18's better efforts. It was different from the usual preachy, he said-she said rich white people rape case, and it had good twists and turns. I liked that they did an episode about sports hazing, it is truly a widespread epidemic that needs to end now, and it's scum like the dad who spout dumb shit such as "boys will be boys", "PC crap", "hazing makes you tough" etc that allow it to continue. So I was glad SVU did an episode on this, as it is an epidemic that needs more attention.

Also was a shock that the victim died, that was a good twist and a gutsy move by SVU to kill him. I also didn't know everything from the start, it required good investigation and it was a little while before I suspected that the dad was the main villain. 

All of the detectives were good, Carisi in particular was excellent tonight, Benson didn't preach or snarl and no soap opera acting from Mariska, Rollins has become much more competent and professional as of late, and Fin got a good role again. I didn't miss Barba as much as I usually do, because this wasn't really a legal case and it involved a minor which Barba doesn't handle. 

Overall, a very good case, I liked the twists, I never suspected Kyle of being the one who shoved the stick up his ass, usually I'm able to spot the perps when they appear. I also went from hating Kyle to feeling some sympathy by the end because of his scum dad, although I'm glad he didn't get off. I would like to know what happened to the "Bash Brothers", I hope they served time in juvy because they were accomplices to sexual assault and manslaughter. 

[Jamie Satyr]

A lot more common behavior than we'd like to think; dysfunction families like this! It's quite hard to relate to; even though bullied to the extreme growing up! What's with these women who not only stay, but keep pumping out more kids to be abused? The excuses are painful to watch/hear! ;-)

[Xeliou66]

I didn't feel that much sympathy for the mom, I get that she was under her husbands control but she lied and covered for him and her son and had she spoken up well maybe the sons wouldn't have been abused and Jack wouldn't be dead. I was certainly losing my patience with her when Rollins was talking to her. 

[sockii]

28 minutes ago, Jamie Satyr said:

A lot more common behavior than we'd like to think; dysfunction families like this! It's quite hard to relate to; even though bullied to the extreme growing up! What's with these women who not only stay, but keep pumping out more kids to be abused? The excuses are painful to watch/hear! ;-)

Abusive people tend to seek out or be attracted to those with low self esteem and/or other issues (addiction, being victims of childhood abuse), those who are therefore easy to manipulate and keep under their control, to convince that they don't "deserve any better". Maybe they can even end up feeling like a bit of a martyr for their suffering (and because then, to their kids, they are the "good parent", the one who doesn't directly abuse (even if staying in the situation leaves them open to further abuse)). It all feeds into the cycle, unfortunately.

Edited February 16, 2017 by sockii

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Kudos to Adam, took that brutal beating and filmed it.

 

To save his brother and free the family of his abusive father.

 

Really like Carisi, but even I RME when told that childhood bullying story.

 

Writers laid it on thick.

[CleoCaesar]

32 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I didn't feel that much sympathy for the mom, I get that she was under her husbands control but she lied and covered for him and her son and had she spoken up well maybe the sons wouldn't have been abused and Jack wouldn't be dead. I was certainly losing my patience with her when Rollins was talking to her. 

Yeah, my sympathy tends to dry up when there are kids involved. If you're married to an abusive scumbag and can't leave him, that's sad, but you are an adult. If you're married to an abusive scumbag who is beating his kids in front of you and you refuse to leave him and actually make excuses for him, you can go to hell. Your responsibility is to your children who are innocent in the whole thing and should not have their childhoods ruined.

Surprised that the show killed off the other kid, even though that must have been one lightning-quick antibiotic-resistant infection.

46 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Benson didn't preach or snarl and no soap opera acting from Mariska

She came perilously close to preaching before the credits. Carisi's neutral "It looks like hazing" was met by Benson with an awfully sanctimonious "It looks like sexual assault."

Pretty good episode all in all.

[Xeliou66]

I didn't really think that the writers "laid it on thick", I found this episode to have very little preaching. I didn't find Carisi's story hard to believe, bullying is rampant in public schools, a lot of people have had incidents with them, so I didn't think it was heavy handed. It was funny how Fin thought he invented it to relate to Kyle, reminded me of how Fontana on the original L&O would routinely make up stuff to get suspects to talk to him, such as having kids, being in the military etc.

4 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

 

She came perilously close to preaching before the credits. Carisi's neutral "It looks like hazing" was met by Benson with an awfully sanctimonious "It looks like sexual assault."

Pretty good episode all in all.

Yeah I agree about her line before the credits, that was preachy and condescending. It was supposed to be dramatic but it was delivered poorly. It was both a hazing and a sexual assault, this stuff happens more than you think in locker rooms. After that though there wasn't a preachy air about it though and Mariska didn't overact. 

[EtheltoTillie]

The guy who played the father was also a bad guy in the most recent season of Bosch. 

I pegged Kyle as the perp as soon as he came into the hospital room at the beginning. 

[Everleigh]

I appreciated the Mighty Ducks reference because everything I know about hockey, which I admit is not a lot, has come from those movies. 

Tough case. I was shocked they killed the victim. It seemed abrupt and unnecessary. I feel like SVU has done this whole victim seems to be recovering fine, only to then suddenly die of an infection in the hospital in order bump the stakes up to manslaughter/murder thing a few times in recent memory. 

Even though the crime and outcome were awful, I think Kyle getting a couple of years in juvie was the right call. 

As soon as Rollins and Carisi had their heated discussion about wives of abusive men who allow their husbands to abuse their children and each took such a hard stance against each other, I knew we were getting a sob story from one of them. I guess I should be grateful it was something relatively minor like Carisi getting bullied as a kid and not anything crazy like the entire existence of Rollins' family. 

Speaking of the wife, there have been a few articles lately on mothers of children who are either terribly abused or murdered by the mother's boyfriend or husband and how sometimes the mothers face harsher legal punishment than the men who actually beat the child to death due to some states' failure to protect laws. Often the women are physically abused by the men themselves and too afraid to speak up and these articles sort of advocate for these women as victims themselves. I thought that might be where they were going with this story, but other than a throw away line about the husband likely not treating her too well, the episode didn't really suggest that the mother was afraid, but more that she was conflicted because her husband wasn't all bad all the time. Which is bullshit. You don't let someone beat your kids because he mows your mother's lawn occasionally. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Everleigh

[skittl3862]

That scene with Rollins acting all holier than thou about the mother was totally out of line for an SVU detective. "Why doesn't she leave" is the "She was drunk and wearing a short skirt" of domestic abuse. It did seem pretty in character for Rollins though; she's gotten super judgy about other moms since she had a kid 5 seconds ago.

I don't think Carisi talking about being bullied to get Kyle to open up is any more pandering than every episode where Benson uses her motherly empathy to get rape victims to talk (all 400 thus far). Kyle is a 13-year-old boy who's been raised in a toxic masculinity environment with a weak mother. It wouldn't make sense for him to open up to Benson or Rollins. A "Carisi was bullied" backstory brought up in a single episode isn't worse than the Benson's mom was raped/Stabler has kids/Amaro has kids gong they used to ring in every episode.

Why did SVU confront the dad with only 4 cops, no back-up, with his child right there and assume it would all go well? Did they learn nothing from the Season 17 finale? He was built like a refrigerator and on the run for beating his child within an inch of his life. Someone like him should have fought back.

Loved the D2 shout-out. Classic. And literally my only frame of reference for hockey.

Awkward dialogue of the week- Rollins to the mother: "At least do it for Kyle's little brother, Mark." Obviously she knows her own child's name. "At least do it for your other children"? "At least do it for Mark" [pan to younger son drawing]? Something else would have worked better.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Everyone was involved this week. It was nice to see the whole squad involved even if it was because Mariska was in 90% of the scenes last week and needed some rest.
The guest cast especially the kids. The parents were good too especially the dad, but the child actors were what made this work.
A solid script. I thought the bullying story was a bit much, but not completely OTT. And they followed it up with some nice subtlety afterwards with Fin complimenting him for making it up on the spot and leaving it up to interpretation whether he was giving him an out or didn't realize it was true. And in general it was a good story that didn't try to do too much and trusted the actors to make it work.

The Bad:
Even in the most squad focused show in quite a while they couldn't quite get away from L&O: Benson. This was a very good show that could have been even better if they let Carisi and Rollins actually be the lead detectives. Do the hospital interview with the victims themselves, do the big interrogation with Benson outside, etc. Mariska can still be the star and viewers will keep watching even if she doesn't do everything every episode. How much better would the opener have worked if it had been the parents asking if the police were really going to get involved in possible hazing and it had been Rollins or Carisi responding that they were investigating sexual assault?
The scene with the ER doctor telling them it was a spiral fracture. They should have immediately perked up and realized the implications themselves without having to be told. If I know about spiral fractures from watching L&O they certainly should have picked it up too!

Overall it was good. Very good even. It came the closest to achieving escape velocity from the gravity well of Mariska's ego of any episode this season, letting other characters have some of the limelight and dialing back the preachiness to a manageable level. I hope this is a sign of things to come, but I'm not counting on it.
 

[sockii]

I agree with some that overall this was a better episode than we've seen for a while—though still quite a ways away from being a great one. But it actually managed to keep my interest for the full hour, which is something most episodes this season hasn't managed. Granted, maybe it's because the episode eerily seemed quite similar to last season's Transgender Bridge in many ways: a bullying incident where 1) the initial injuries end up leading to tragic, unexpected death and 2) when the bully ends up becoming at least partially sympathetic because of his own issues/being pressured into his actions. Also, the weird reversal of the scene in TG where Rollins was schooling Carisi about sensitivity in trans issues; now we get Carisi schooling Rollins about why women can't always escape an abusive spouse. (I hated that scene; once again we have Rollins as nothing but a sanctimonious mombot now that she has Jesse and forgetting everything her experience and training should have taught her?)

Fin actually got some lines and moments, yay, but I hated how he still ends up being treated as the tag along. "Call Rollins and have her bring Fin." What, really? He's the most senior detective in the squad and yet is treated like an inferior to Rollins and Carisi. Can we please hope for that to change when he finally becomes sergeant? (Though I fear that will mean he gets shoved further into the background and desk duty like they did to Munch.)

...And I can already see parts of the fandom turning Carisi into more of their favorite poor woobie than ever before. I'm sorry but I fail to see how his having being bullied translated into him being so understanding of the situation that family was under the abusive father's control? That was...awkward and didn't make sense to me. I would have preferred it if maybe he saw a similar situation in, if not his immediate nuclear family, then part of his extended one (c'mon, big Italian family, that would have been easy to set up.)

Edited February 16, 2017 by sockii

[Sarah D. Bunting]

I wish I could agree on MarHar's acting, but to react to the spiral-fracture "revelation" with

 

 

The writing didn't leave her a ton of options, but chrissakes, lady, you're the squad's LIEUTENANT, not some rook who's never watched TV before. We all know what a spiral fracture means. Act like ya been here. (Literally.)

[Primetimer]

A hockey-team hazing goes horribly awry, but St. Liv's sanctimony really needs to go puck itself.

View the full article

[Xeliou66]

That is a funny picture of Mariska's reaction, she really needs to tone it down. 

This was one of the better episodes for me overall, not everything was immediately obvious, there was actual investigation and it wasn't dominated by Benson. It was a nice break from he said-she said rape cases that we are dominated with. 

[Gigi43]

I like Carisi a whole lot, but I thought that story was... a little much. Which is common on this show these days, no he couldn't have just been bullied, it went as far as being thrown through glass and that kid grew up to stab someone. Sometimes kids say or do stupid things and then they grow up and realize they were assholes.  Plus his situation didn't match with the kids at all, it wasn't "a bully" it was an abusive father. Big difference, show!

 

Rollins has been in SVU long enough to know a lot of women stay because they are terrified to leave or have been beaten down emotionally. Her "if someone hit Jesse" didn't fit at alt, because there's a difference too if a boyfriend suddenly strikes your kid vs. the kids father/your husband. A boyfriend is probably (not always I know) more willing to let you walk out the door. That's the road they should have gone down with the wife instead of the "but sometimes he's nice", because that isn't

 

As for the case, it was okay. Having the boy (Jack?) die felt like a last minute thought to make it extra!dramatic! Which it really wasn't as I've come to expect they might go for that "twist" these days. I thought the older brother was going to die too. 

[skittl3862]

7 hours ago, Everleigh said:

Often the women are physically abused by the men themselves and too afraid to speak up and these articles sort of advocate for these women as victims themselves. I thought that might be where they were going with this story, but other than a throw away line about the husband likely not treating her too well, the episode didn't really suggest that the mother was afraid, but more that she was conflicted because her husband wasn't all bad all the time. Which is bullshit. You don't let someone beat your kids because he mows your mother's lawn occasionally. 

The injuries caused were minor and generally healed on their own. It's probably not frequent incidents. It was never so bad that she feared for their lives. The kids still had a relationship with their father; he wasn't just a monster to them. She rationalizes it as "He's stressed about work/money and the kids push his buttons. If they didn't set him off, this wouldn't happen."

Had it not escalated due to the assault, this would have flown under the radar and probably would have stopped when Kyle was big enough to fight back. Kyle probably doesn't even recognize it as abuse; he would have been raised to view it as punishment for his behavior. Just saying. Been there. It's not as black and white as the obvious child abuse cases where the dad beats his kids within an inch of their lives and the whole family lives in constant, debilitating fear.

 

3 hours ago, wknt3 said:

The Good:
The guest cast especially the kids. The parents were good too especially the dad, but the child actors were what made this work.

I was going to mention that as well and forgot. Jack and Kyle were really good for child actors, especially Kyle. A huge upgrade from the kid in Motherly Love.

 

3 hours ago, sockii said:

...And I can already see parts of the fandom turning Carisi into more of their favorite poor woobie than ever before. I'm sorry but I fail to see how his having being bullied translated into him being so understanding of the situation that family was under the abusive father's control? That was...awkward and didn't make sense to me. I would have preferred it if maybe he saw a similar situation in, if not his immediate nuclear family, then part of his extended one (c'mon, big Italian family, that would have been easy to set up.)

I first thought it would be a relative too, but Carisi having a direct parallel to the victim because his own dad or whoever hit him would have been way more OTT. I interpreted his story as he knew what it was like to feel you have to man up and take the hits and not be a snitch. Not "I was bullied, poor us."

It reminded me of that scene in S2 Legacy, when Munch remembers the abused neighbor girl from his childhood and says he always wonders if his intervention could have saved her.

Edited February 16, 2017 by skittl3862

[chick binewski]

13 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

I'm probably one of the few who doesn't worship Carisi.  He's ok, but I don't see anything all that special  or interesting about him.

 

3 hours ago, wknt3 said:

And they followed it up with some nice subtlety afterwards with Fin complimenting him for making it up on the spot and leaving it up to interpretation whether he was giving him an out or didn't realize it was true. 
**:
Even in the most squad focused show in quite a while they couldn't quite get away from L&O: Benson. 

 

3 hours ago, sockii said:

Fin actually got some lines and moments, yay, but I hated how he still ends up being treated as the tag along. "Call Rollins and have her bring Fin." What, really? He's the most senior detective in the squad and yet is treated like an inferior to Rollins and Carisi. 

I think I like Carisi so much b/c the actor seems to at least be trying to keep it fresh. They're giving Ice T nothing and frankly on this ep he pretty much looked like 'fine - Coco needs me to pick up diapers on the way home anyway'. I thought Fin's radar would instantly know Carisi's story was true but if other viewers like WKNT3 thought it was ambiguous I guess that's promising they haven't completely buried the character.

At this point I cringe when Hargitay is onscreen. I understand it must be challenging playing the same role for 18 years, but watching these long-running shows that have had some really great seasons is difficult when the actors appear stilted and disengaged. It leads to those overact-y emotional blips that don't fit (and yes I'm talking to you too, Grey's Anatomy and Supernatural). 

I feel kind of bad popping in here every week b/c most seem to still enjoy the show, while my take 5 minutes in is 'thank you L&O for an abusive hockey dad we've never seen that before and it's too bad Robert Clohessy is getting older so you couldn't automatically just cut him a check'.

[sockii]

1 hour ago, skittl3862 said:

I first thought it would be a relative too, but Carisi having a direct parallel to the victim because his own dad or whoever hit him would have been way more OTT. I interpreted his story as he knew what it was like to feel you have to man up and take the hits and not be a snitch. Not "I was bullied, poor us."

It reminded me of that scene in S2 Legacy, when Munch remembers the abused neighbor girl from his childhood and says he always wonders if his intervention could have saved her.

 

I just felt having be Carisi who was bullied didn't really fit—not as far as the story went in the episode, trying to draw parallels, and as something I can buy as part of his backstory as a character. I just don't see it working in a way that meshes with the Carisi who first joined the 16th in season 16.

And yes, I thought of Legacy immediately as well (it's one of my all time favorites, no surprise, as a Munch fan)...curious how that was also about someone being "pushed through a plate glass window"...and that little girl died from the injuries. Amazing how Carisi doesn't even seem to have a single visible scar from such an incident? (And the Munch story parallel worked so much better to me because that was used to explain why he was the one to come to suspect the mother of abuse.)

19 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

They're giving Ice T nothing and frankly on this ep he pretty much looked like 'fine - Coco needs me to pick up diapers on the way home anyway'. I thought Fin's radar would instantly know Carisi's story was true but if other viewers like WKNT3 thought it was ambiguous I guess that's promising they haven't completely buried the character.

At this point I cringe when Hargitay is onscreen. I understand it must be challenging playing the same role for 18 years, but watching these long-running shows that have had some really great seasons is difficult when the actors appear stilted and disengaged. It leads to those overact-y emotional blips that don't fit (and yes I'm talking to you too, Grey's Anatomy and Supernatural). 

I feel kind of bad popping in here every week b/c most seem to still enjoy the show, while my take 5 minutes in is 'thank you L&O for an abusive hockey dad we've never seen that before and it's too bad Robert Clohessy is getting older so you couldn't automatically just cut him a check'.

I agree with all of the above. I'm really hoping they give Ice more to work with in next week's episodes. I've enjoyed the few this season where the writers finally gave him some actual importance to an episode (Making a Rapist and Broken Rhymes) but it really feels like the rest of the time he's completely phoning it in...and I don't blame him with so little to work with (and not having someone good to consistently work off of. Sigh. I don't need to mention how much I miss Munch yet again...)

I also wonder if we're ever going to hear what happened with Ken & Alejandro's baby? That poor surrogate has been pregnant for near about a year at this point unless we're just supposed to assume the kid's been born and no one bothers to ever ask Fin about it...

And feh, I come here mostly to complain and wonder what happened to my show. But at least snark is welcome here instead of other forums where you can't complain about MH's acting and apparent ego without being accused of being a misogynist....

Edited February 16, 2017 by sockii

[ForeverAlone]

Considering the history of this show, if Carisi only gets off with a childhood bullying story, he will probably have one of the gentlest backgrounds for the show. As long as they keep the pathos and melodrama away from him (and hopefully Barba as well, though I fear what is coming down the pike for him soon enough). I like the fact that the writers haven't made him a boozing, whoring, angry dude like we see often. Personally I would rather have Gary Stu Carisi rather than the umpteenth bad copy of Angry! Elliott. 

Overall I enjoyed this episode (as much as I can enjoy a Barba-less episode these days) though it sort of started to feel repetitive (for me anyway) with the team pushing Kyle to turn on his father. I get that he wasn't just going to do it willingly or quickly, but it did start to feel a bit samey after a while. But the case was a nice break from the he said/she said rape cases. SVU doesn't go to the child victim well these days as often as they used to, so it was interesting to see. 

[slowpoked]

4 hours ago, sockii said:

maybe it's because the episode eerily seemed quite similar to last season's Transgender Bridge in many ways

Thanks for bringing it up, I thought about Transgender Bridge too as the episode went on. One of the better SVU episodes done in recent years, but thinking about that episode makes me sad, because while I truly believe that everyone did the right thing, it still felt like justice wasn't served. A downer for everyone involved, even for the family who "got" justice for their son.

I know family dynamics are complicated and all that, but what appalled me was that it was the oldest son who freaked out the most about his younger brother being tried as an adult and going to an adult prison. I thought that when Benson dropped that bomb, that the mother would come to her senses and finally come to her son's defense. Of course, the father thinks the law cannot touch his child - he's a stud athlete after all *eyeroll*. It was the oldest son who was able to see the big picture for what it is, and while he can no longer save himself, he chose to save his two brothers instead. He played the real parent and hero.

Edited February 16, 2017 by slowpoked

[yogi2014L]

I would have really liked to see how this would have played out in court. If I was the dad's lawyer, I would be arguing that he wasn't even there, he didn't actually commit the crime.

Also would have liked to see this same case play out with older kids...like older teenagers. would have been interested to see if the whole " i was abused so now I abuse" would work with a 15 year old. For some reason I think not but I also was a little annoyed that is seemed to just erase the fact that Kyle actually did it. He was 13. is that old enough to know right from wrong? Especially if his father wasn't in the room with him when it happened. He had to walk back, pick up a stick, ect ect. Plently of time to change his mind. or he could have done something less. I was more expecting them to say that Kyle himself had been sexually abused do to the sexual nature of the crime.

Im not saying at all that previous abuse didn't have anything to with what happened, but it just left me feeling like they were treating him like a 5 year old. 

Also-

How many freaking times are they doing to do the whole " victim secretly tricks the perp into confessing on a wire or in front of police??" this is like the 10th time they've done some sort of set up. 

[Medicine Crow]

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Good episode, one of season 18's better efforts. It was different from the usual preachy, he said-she said rich white people rape case, and it had good twists and turns. I liked that they did an episode about sports hazing, it is truly a widespread epidemic that needs to end now, and it's scum like the dad who spout dumb shit such as "boys will be boys", "PC crap", "hazing makes you tough" etc that allow it to continue. So I was glad SVU did an episode on this, as it is an epidemic that needs more attention.

Also was a shock that the victim died, that was a good twist and a gutsy move by SVU to kill him. I also didn't know everything from the start, it required good investigation and it was a little while before I suspected that the dad was the main villain. 

All of the detectives were good, Carisi in particular was excellent tonight, Benson didn't preach or snarl and no soap opera acting from Mariska, Rollins has become much more competent and professional as of late, and Fin got a good role again. I didn't miss Barba as much as I usually do, because this wasn't really a legal case and it involved a minor which Barba doesn't handle. 

Overall, a very good case, I liked the twists, I never suspected Kyle of being the one who shoved the stick up his ass, usually I'm able to spot the perps when they appear. I also went from hating Kyle to feeling some sympathy by the end because of his scum dad, although I'm glad he didn't get off. I would like to know what happened to the "Bash Brothers", I hope they served time in juvy because they were accomplices to sexual assault and manslaughter. 

My bold.  I was also perturbed that the "Bash Brothers" were not included in the charges because Kyle certainly couldn't have done it alone!!!

[Jamie Satyr]

42 minutes ago, Medicine Crow said:

My bold.  I was also perturbed that the "Bash Brothers" were not included in the charges because Kyle certainly couldn't have done it alone!!!

The victim absolved Kyle in the end! Only the parents pushing for justice got the true culprit in the end (no pun intended)! This is probably more common than we'd like to know! Some parents are out of control in the activities of their kids! ;-(

[HunterHunted]

I'm both surprised and not surprised that the victim died. He suffered a lot of trauma to his colon rom the handle of a 13 year old boy's hockey stick, which has to be one of the dirtier things in the world. 13 year old boys are disgusting. A colon isn't clean either. Perforate the colon and you could easily get sepsis and die.

This really was one of the better episodes. However, I'm going to quibble a lit bit with Olivia about making the doctor report his suspicions of child abuse. The doctor is a mandatory reporter to child protective services, which has different purpose than SVU. Child protective services' purpose is to protect the child. If a parent is prosecuted for child abuse based on their investigation and involvement, that's ancillary. SVU is law enforcement. Their purpose is crime prevention, intervention, and investigation all of which is primarily focused on getting the perpetrator into jail or prison. Police are mandatory reporters to child protective services too. The doctor has not done his due diligence by telling Liv because he doesn't know if she can be relied upon to child protective services. 

In actuality, he does know because Liv is in that hospital every other day whispering promises under her breath to every abused child who reminds her of her beautiful sweet Noah at home and every battered or raped woman who reminds Liv of how close...how close...how close Liv came to being just like them. We will find the person who did this to you. We will protect you. I'm Olivia Benson from SVU. I'm your mother. I'm your sister. I'm you. I will protect you. I will protect us.

[wknt3]

6 hours ago, chick binewski said:

I think I like Carisi so much b/c the actor seems to at least be trying to keep it fresh. They're giving Ice T nothing and frankly on this ep he pretty much looked like 'fine - Coco needs me to pick up diapers on the way home anyway'. I thought Fin's radar would instantly know Carisi's story was true but if other viewers like WKNT3 thought it was ambiguous I guess that's promising they haven't completely buried the character.

Oh Fin totally knew it was true and was just offering him a way of saving face and saying he was going to just forget about it and move on. And Carisi was taking him up on that. But that was just knowing the characters and the way it was played. They didn't beat us over the head with it and it was nice to see Ice T getting some actual material. It was nicely done. To me the only real question is was Rollins follow up clunky writing to telegraph what most of us already gathered and make sure we knew Carisi really had a tortured past too, demonstrating that they had a special relationship, showing that her empathy was still broken for whatever reason or saying "you don't need to hide anything from me, now let's go have wild crazy monkey sex before you clean my apartment and take the kid to Gymboree"?

[Packerbrewerbadger]

Shouldn't they have arrested the dad for what he did to the oldest son?  They had it on tape !!  And did I miss the follow up on his condition, because he looked seriously injured !!!

[Xeliou66]

Um, I'm sure they did. It was just a matter of finding the dad. 

[Racj82]

18 hours ago, Everleigh said:

I appreciated the Mighty Ducks reference because everything I know about hockey, which I admit is not a lot, has come from those movies. 

Tough case. I was shocked they killed the victim. It seemed abrupt and unnecessary. I feel like SVU has done this whole victim seems to be recovering fine, only to then suddenly die of an infection in the hospital in order bump the stakes up to manslaughter/murder thing a few times in recent memory. 

Even though the crime and outcome were awful, I think Kyle getting a couple of years in juvie was the right call. 

As soon as Rollins and Carisi had their heated discussion about wives of abusive men who allow their husbands to abuse their children and each took such a hard stance against each other, I knew we were getting a sob story from one of them. I guess I should be grateful it was something relatively minor like Carisi getting bullied as a kid and not anything crazy like the entire existence of Rollins' family. 

Speaking of the wife, there have been a few articles lately on mothers of children who are either terribly abused or murdered by the mother's boyfriend or husband and how sometimes the mothers face harsher legal punishment than the men who actually beat the child to death due to some states' failure to protect laws. Often the women are physically abused by the men themselves and too afraid to speak up and these articles sort of advocate for these women as victims themselves. I thought that might be where they were going with this story, but other than a throw away line about the husband likely not treating her too well, the episode didn't really suggest that the mother was afraid, but more that she was conflicted because her husband wasn't all bad all the time. Which is bullshit. You don't let someone beat your kids because he mows your mother's lawn occasionally. 

Don't really agree with the killing of the victim part. I watch a aftershow where it's been pointed out multiple times that we've had far less victim deaths than you. It's true if track back.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah I thought that the killing of the victim was a bold move and it added another twist to an already good episode. 

I really liked this one and the one before it, they were better episodes than what we have had most of this season, I hope next week is good as well, it looks interesting. I like that they aren't copying headlines word for word or preaching a lot, and I liked how in this one Benson was toned down.

[shelwood]

It was a weird choice to have Rollins -- she who happily let her sister back into her life after said sister framed her for murder and stole ALL of her stuff -- blather on about how easy it is to break ties with abusers. Look in the mirror, girl.

[Hannahbtcgte]

On 2/16/2017 at 8:15 AM, skittl3862 said:

I first thought it would be a relative too, but Carisi having a direct parallel to the victim because his own dad or whoever hit him would have been way more OTT. I interpreted his story as he knew what it was like to feel you have to man up and take the hits and not be a snitch. Not "I was bullied, poor us."

It reminded me of that scene in S2 Legacy, when Munch remembers the abused neighbor girl from his childhood and says he always wonders if his intervention could have saved her.

I really agree with the first part, so I'm glad to see that other people interpreted that the same way, but I'm mainly writing this about the second part. I thought of the exact same scene when watching it. I think I may have literally said (to nobody in particular) "This is Carisi's 'Munch' moment". 

[katisha]

Another good episode by today's SVU standards.  Some good acting, especially by the young actor who played Kyle and the two who played the parents, and a storyline which wasn't entirely predictable.

Re the Carisi bullying subplot, I suppose up until now he's come across as a fairly upbeat character who hasn't had to deal with a lot in his life and they really couldn't just let him be that guy.  He'll never reach Olivia or Rollins levels of angst but at least now we know the character's had a small share.

[devious455]

The episode was predictable but well made. And very disturbing. The legal side was missing again. Barba still keeps being underused this season for no good reason. There are five regular characters and they continue to develop only two. Benson and Carisi. I don't care for Carisi and more they're going to add stuff to make him more popular more I'm going to dislike him. Also I'm tired of his slow transformation into Barba 2.0. He now has his own bullying story. And it was some story. Barba only had kids stealing his lunch money, his upgraded clone has his face smashed through the glass. As people pointed out, he would have deep scars so it didn't make any sense. He needs to became more human with flaws not getting sob stories. Him lecturing Rollins about abuse didn't help either. Things like that are very distracting because their only purpose is to make Carisi look better on expense of another character. They do it since he joined the squad. 

Where is the new detective character they were supposed to bring? We are in the middle of the season. It could seriously help the show because the chemistry between squad is lacking. 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, devious455 said:

The episode was predictable but well made. And very disturbing. The legal side was missing again. Barba still keeps being underused this season for no good reason.

Good episode, although i kind of wish Barba did show up just because I was curious if that shitbag dad was going to accept a plea or go to trial and force his son to testify.

On 16/02/2017 at 3:29 AM, skittl3862 said:

That scene with Rollins acting all holier than thou about the mother was totally out of line for an SVU detective. "Why doesn't she leave" is the "She was drunk and wearing a short skirt" of domestic abuse. It did seem pretty in character for Rollins though; she's gotten super judgy about other moms since she had a kid 5 seconds ago

I am not sure how i feel on that issue. I see your point, but at the same time i can see "i can't leave even though my kids are in danger" being the domestic equivalent of "i was just following  orders". 

[Xeliou66]

I really didn't have a problem with Barba not appearing in this one, since the case involved juveniles and Barba frequently doesn't handle those cases. This episode was good the way it was, I usually sorely miss Barba when he is gone. I do wish he was in more episodes though, he is extremely underused. 

[Jamie Satyr]

Just now, Xeliou66 said:

I really didn't have a problem with Barba not appearing in this one, since the case involved juveniles and Barba frequently doesn't handle those cases. This episode was good the way it was, I usually sorely miss Barba when he is gone. I do wish he was in more episodes though, he is extremely underused. 

They're too busy featuring Liv in every scene! She goes out on each case instead of managing her squad! She's in the face of witnesses, fathers, and attorneys! She's all up and down the credits (producing, directing) so they probably need to change the name of the show to "Law & Order: Benson's Special Victims Unit!" ;-)

[Xeliou66]

Yeah, everyone agrees the show is mainly just a project for Mariska now and she has taken over. I think she controls a lot of the storylines and makes everything be about Benson. I have become really annoyed by Benson, her constant snarling and judgmental bossy attitude, her personal crap with her constant law enforcement boyfriends and her kid, and of her overly dramatic expressions. Mariska's acting as Benson has become reminiscent of how David Caruso used to play Horatio on CSI Miami. 

[Lebanna]

I love that Rollins seems to have now got a decorative stuffed dead chipmunk in a glass dome on her desk. That's random and hilarious.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Lebanna

[Jamie Satyr]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah, everyone agrees the show is mainly just a project for Mariska now and she has taken over. I think she controls a lot of the storylines and makes everything be about Benson. I have become really annoyed by Benson, her constant snarling and judgmental bossy attitude, her personal crap with her constant law enforcement boyfriends and her kid, and of her overly dramatic expressions. Mariska's acting as Benson has become reminiscent of how David Caruso used to play Horatio on CSI Miami. 

If they go all the way omnipotent with Benson, I may have to stop watching as well! Heaven knows that's what made "CSI: Miami" so bad! "H" must have had a time machine, angel wings, and a crystal ball hidden on his person! He always arrived in time to thwart something barbaric, no matter how sick, he knew what to do! ;-)

[DaynaPhile]

On 2/16/2017 at 10:47 AM, slowpoked said:

Of course, the father thinks the law cannot touch his child - he's a stud athlete after all *eyeroll*

And this is what we've seen happen in recent media stories. It's as though the justice system is agreeing with the father. This one was especially hard to watch because I caught it today, the day the verdict, if you can call it that, came out for the Idaho kid (my state) who assaulted the mentally handicapped kid in the locker room. Same injury, but with a coat hanger. The kid just got 3 years probation. He's a football player. And let's not forget good ol' Brock. Wouldn't want to ruin his precious swimming career. It's disgusting how people aren't getting justice because the perp is an athlete. As if that's the greatest measure of mankind and must be protected at the cost of justice. 

Sorry, like I said, this was hard to watch in light of today's verdict. Not that I was following it, but it was just all over my Facebook feed and hard to avoid. 

On a lighter note, did it appear to anyone besides me that the argument in the break room between Rollins and Carisi was like they were an old married couple fighting?

[katisha]

Quote

They're too busy featuring Liv in every scene! She goes out on each case instead of managing her squad! She's in the face of witnesses, fathers, and attorneys! She's all up and down the credits (producing, directing) so they probably need to change the name of the show to "Law & Order: Benson's Special Victims Unit!" ;-)

I don't know if it's true in the USA (I am thinking it must be because of the role Captain Cragen always had in the squad of, you know, actually staying in the office for the most part and running things from there) but in Australia, the higher you go in the Police, the more time you spend behind a desk doing paperwork and that sort of stuff, taking phone calls from more senior officers, etc. The stuff at the coalface gets left to the more junior officers who would obviously consult you, as their boss, but then go out there and get stuff done without you.  Therefore, the suspension of disbelief we've always needed to watch this show for the last 10 years or so has increased so much since Mariska started producing the show because she is just omnipresent, as stated above.  And I reckon it'll be the thing that finally kills the show.

[Xeliou66]

The poster is absolutely right about how star athletes get away with a ton of crimes because they are athletes. The Brock Turner case and the Idaho case are great examples of how star athletes are treated differently, the same goes for members of fraternities. There is a different law for those groups of people because of the extreme influence they have because of money. So the dad was fairly accurate about how it is easy to get away with stuff as a star athlete. 

[slowpoked]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

The poster is absolutely right about how star athletes get away with a ton of crimes because they are athletes. The Brock Turner case and the Idaho case are great examples of how star athletes are treated differently, the same goes for members of fraternities. There is a different law for those groups of people because of the extreme influence they have because of money. So the dad was fairly accurate about how it is easy to get away with stuff as a star athlete. 

I don't think it's because of the money, but more like, the promise of these white athletes' future. The judge said so in the Brock Turner case - putting him to prison will ruin his life and future. Never mind that he messed up some girl's life, he's an athlete who has a good future ahead of him. He's a Stanford swimmer.

Can't help but think race plays a card in this too. There was a black athlete in TN, I think, college football player, who was charged and convicted of assault, but actually got jail time. My memory's hazy on these things, so I may not be getting the details right.