S13.E13: It Only Gets Much Worse

[Crazy Bird Lady]

There's no question that loyalty and disloyalty are major factors in the current story thread.

And so is guilt. Guilt for being part of that boy's death. Maggie's vague guilt for not welcoming her own mother's visit will almost certainly grow into a pillar of guilt that she didn't spend every possible moment with her Mom --whenever she finally finds out her mom is dying. Bailey's guilt for being disloyal to Richard while taking secret orders from Caroline to shove Minnick at the hospital staff as his replacement. Other doctors' guilt for betraying Richard by allowing Minnick into their ORs (because they don't want to be suspended like Meredith was).

The only person who probably won't suffer any guilt at all is Caroline Avery. I don't think she has a conscience.

[dr pepper]

The Chief is still the Chief!

[Chas411]

I really wish they'd stop with the huge focus on guest characters like Minnick and Penny and instead focus on the regular characters who only get scraps here and there like Stephanie, Jo, Andrew etc 

[flickers]

If she doesn't want them all to hate her, April needed to explain herself because she was one of the ones leading the charge for Richard. But perhaps she doesn't care. Whether or not they're all being childish (they are), last episode she was talking about going to war for him, so the sudden switch looks like opportunism. She dug her own grave as always and then exploded at the poor cancer patient about how nice is. Oookay- she certainly thinks she is, others might disagree. That was a painful scene.

I wonder if this is how they write out Stephanie?

Edited February 17, 2017 by flickers

[llewis823]

10 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

 

I really hate everyone on this show. Every single character was grating and borderline frustrating. 

Also Minnick is terrible. If that scene of her failing to help Stephanie because she's never had a child die was supposed to garner sympathy. It didn't. 

Also why are they forcing Arizona and Minnick on  Us

 

As I was reading the posts before yours, I was trying to think of which characters I even like anymore. I have never been one to really like Meredith. I just don't "get her". She seems cold to me. Even when she is supposed to be emotional and loving. She still seems fake and cold to me. Always has. But I kept watching for the other characters. So who do I like anymore on Grey's?

Jo - no, Maggie - meh, Stephanie - no, Arizona - meh, Minnick - no, Catherine - nope, Owen - too wishy-washy, Amelia - OMG NO, Avery - meh, April - meh, Okay I got it - I like Bailey, Webber and kinda-sorta Alex. That's it. Sad, huh? But I keep watching...even sadder, huh?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm pretty sure that the writers intended for this episode to humanize Minnick and make me like her. Instead all it did was show me that her method sucks as much as I thought it did and she is not as good a teacher and mentor as Richard is. Even if this is the only CHILD she's ever killed during surgery, she has had other patients die so as the attending it is her responsibility to teach Edwards how to deal with this instead of running to a dark room to cry. FFS.

I still do not understand the alleged superiority of her method. If I were having someone wire my house for electricity or defuse a bomb, I would want someone who has had experience doing it, not someone who's never done it before. These are people we're talking about, people who they are KILLING with the lack of experience.

I hated that Minnick's whole "poor me" spiel just served to soften Arizona towards her. I also hate that I was right last week when I said Owen's cut arms were going to result in converting him from Team Richard to Team Minnick. Sure, he says he's Switzerland now, but now that April is in charge he's scooting closer to supporting Bailey's decision.

I could not believe that April had the nerve to tell Maggie she was being immature. This from the person who was just snippy to the patient she's supposed to operate on. April is good at paperwork and schedules and organizing, which we saw when she was Derek's assistant. But she is not good at staying calm, communicating without becoming shrill, or being nice when she's confronted with anything unpleasant. We saw it for an entire season when she argued nonstop with Jackson, and we saw it again this week with the way she treated her patient. Shrieking at someone that you're nice? Okay, that really gets your point across. And not that niceness is something that can be measured, but "Ask anyone here" isn't exactly the kind of factual data that is going to convince anyone that it's true. Her attitude is what makes her a poor choices for this position. Will she be able to calmly interact with others when they disagree with her? Will she be able to logically explain to them that what she's asking them to do is for the best? Leadership isn't just barking orders at people. It's getting people to happily do what you ask, and I don't think April has the interpersonal skills to do that.

[StaceyNotStacie]

39 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

I hated that Minnick's whole "poor me" spiel just served to soften Arizona towards her. I also hate that I was right last week when I said Owen's cut arms were going to result in converting him from Team Richard to Team Minnick. Sure, he says he's Switzerland now, but now that April is in charge he's scooting closer to supporting Bailey's decision.

 

Owen has always been close with April. He's the one who hired her back and he spent all of that time with her overseas.  He also chose her as Chief Resident. 

I hope there's some fallout with this little boy. The parents should sue the crap out of the hospital. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Stacey1014

[Court]

Riggs was also in the military with April. He didn't seem to be on her "side", necessarily. I understand why she took it, but she is being willingly naive to not see the implications into why she was offered. It's not based on her just being qualified for the job. April should know better than anyone how manipulative Catherine is.

As a parent, if I found out a resident was performing surgery she had never done before on my child, I would be furious. Yes,they need to learn but there are steps and now a child is dead because of the overeagerness of someone just wanting to do surgery. 

Neither Minnick or Stephanie seemed to care about the patient in this until he was dead. Arizona was right, Stephanie wasn't ready for this to be her solo surgery.

I'm pretty sure appendectomy were the first solo surgeries in the past?

[Gladrags]

12 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I came away feeling kinda of sorry for April. I am now even more convinced that Catherine is setting her up. Catherine went from having no use for April to being her bestie in a second. 

Since I'm always looking for character growth on this show -- I know, I know, why am I always setting myself up for disappointment -- I'm hoping to see April become more self confident and Catherine become less of a bitch on wheels. A girl can dream. 

11 hours ago, flickers said:

I was surprised that the reveal of Catherine's deception took place offscreen, this tells me that it won't be considered such a big deal and her marriage to Richard will probably survive, unfortunately.

That was so disappointing! I wanted to see him bite her head off in a way that only Richard can. 

7 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

The only person who probably won't suffer any guilt at all is Caroline Avery. I don't think she has a conscience.

Catherine. Her name is Catherine. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Gladrags

[lovelynn]

Grey's is a mess. I liked when residents were shown to choose a specialty and excel in it (mainly Christina). Stephanie performing a pediatric surgery solo is ridiculous. Isn't neuro supposed to be her focus?! I really want the parents to sue the crap out of Minnick/the hospital/Edwards. 

[proserpina65]

13 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Great job, Minnick, your Method killed an innocent little boy.

The fact that Stephanie went to Webber speaks volumes about who the residents and attendings at Grey Sloan actually trust.

For me, the failure wasn't so much letting Stephanie take the lead, but not allowing the pediatric surgeon to be second on the case.  I mean, really, what does a Sports Medicine/Orthopedic surgeon know about peds beyond the basics?  It should've been Minnick standing back and watching while Arizona guided Stephanie through the surgery.

I was thinking about this whole "lack of teaching" storyline this morning, and it dawned on me that it's not Richard who is the problem so much as it is the current crop of attendings.  After all, they are, for the most part, the residents who weren't teaching their interns back during the secret self-surgery club episodes.  They're the ones who needed to allow their residents to do more and learn more.  So while, yes, teaching methods can and should be updated all the time, there's no reason why Richard couldn't have been brought into the loop to do it.

[Daisy]

I didn't see the first 12 minutes (I came in when Ben was telling Bailey that he doesn't want to be too "First Lady" around her or something like that, so i am assuming people were mad at April, case, case, glare, Title Card). 

 

Let me fix this whole dumb Minnick thing in a paragraph. This is something that I came up with when I was making breakfast (which. was a piece of toast, and some milk and a banana. that's how long it took me to come up with this, Show). 

Problem: Residents aren't learning/progressing as fast as the last few classes (MAGIC'S class)
Reasons: Some are totally personal (everyone sleeping with everyone - and the stupid code of conduct didn't work). Some just don't get it and are super behind (Sadie), some weren't clicking at that moment - Leah. 
Question: How do we fix this. 

<<SHOW Response>> obviously it's because Richard Weber is old and so lets' create DRAHMAH!!! dun dun dun. 

My Solution:
 

Catherine, the board, Richard, and attendings (who... are also on the board. so stupid), come in and talk. 
they realise that some of the people they let go becuse of issues (even if sleeping together/or just slow) - do go out and become Rockstars somewhere else. We're a teaching hospital, do we we fix this. 
 

Instead of having one method of teaching - we embrace the fact that we're a teaching hospital, and we have several styles of teaching. We have Richard's way (of story telling, and teaching, and then letting them think they can do it). We have Minnick's way of just being a Bull in a china shop, you have Gina Davis's way of teaching (which was somewhat Minnick's way but just constantly telling them how THEY do it showing them, in a lab and they go and do it). several ways.  Residents get several ways of learning, attending make notes of what is working best for the student, and then woila, that's how they teach them. (ie: if 3 residents learn x way - keep them together and they all learning X way. if 2 residents need to be a little coddled, that's how you teach them but also push on them). 

How to insert the (natural) dramah: lots of the residents LIKE Minnick's way of teaching (more cutting! more aggressive). Weber is jealous and feels slighted but because this is more organic he can struggle with is he old, is it time to retire, does he want to be like Doctor Faye Dunnaway only brought out for ceremonial reasons.  (But without bringing his love of Vodka back into it).

There is a natural push back because maybe some people aren't COMFORTABLE with the aggressive teaching approach but they feel they need to change how they do things to make it work. 

They have to come together to come what's best for the teaching hospital, as well as ensuring that the quality of care is involved. 

that was over breakfast shonda. Do better. 

I don't have a problem with April taking the position per se - they need someone to run that department, and they don't want to have patient care suffer. I never really got the thought that April ever explained that properly. I am still for Richard, I still think what is happening is wrong, I understand i'm probably the pawn here, and i think we should still stand together, but NOT let meredith's patients (or any other patients) suffer because everyone else is being pigheaded. I am still with you. 

It just came off with. THEY ASKED ME. THIS IS MY JOB, I AM STILL CAPABLE, YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT. 

Minnick is an idiot. I'm sorry you lost your first child, but still. be a damned adult and do your damned job. then you can be all hissy fitty (which would be her right), but I don't feel sorry for her. A Child is not someone you practice on that (someone said Richard coddled Stephanie in this, i dont think so, i think his ultimate thing was, she didn't know that she nicked something. Minnick was helping her with the Camera and she didn't either. if it had been Arizona, the likihood of her going "Let's go back and see." is nill, (like she didn't even say that whilst observing). so i didn't think that being coddled, but i get what you meant there). 

I am so. over. Miranda. Bailey. over. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

For me, the failure wasn't so much letting Stephanie take the lead, but not allowing the pediatric surgeon to be second on the case.  I mean, really, what does a Sports Medicine/Orthopedic surgeon know about peds beyond the basics?  It should've been Minnick standing back and watching while Arizona guided Stephanie through the surgery.

I was thinking about this whole "lack of teaching" storyline this morning, and it dawned on me that it's not Richard who is the problem so much as it is the current crop of attendings.  After all, they are, for the most part, the residents who weren't teaching their interns back during the secret self-surgery club episodes.  They're the ones who needed to allow their residents to do more and learn more.  So while, yes, teaching methods can and should be updated all the time, there's no reason why Richard couldn't have been brought into the loop to do it.

Very few of the attendings now were residents then, if I remember correctly.  Meredith and Jackson are the only ones, I think?  I think it could go back to Richard, honestly.  He let a system flourish where interns/residents got assigned to cases based on who they were sleeping with. Then these residents had interns they didn't bother teaching.  Bailey went through a stage as resident where she refused to teach because she was pouting over not being named chief resident.  All of the hospitals problems aren't new.  We're on our fourth chief of surgery since the show started and we're still seeing the same problems we saw in season 2 as far as teaching residents. 

[Deanie87]

Oh my god, I couldn't even get through this whole episode of "High School With Scalpels."  Not only is it basically a rehash of storylines that have been done before, nearly every single doctor was flat out embarrassing for me to watch.  Like 12 year olds, even more than usual.

Quote

I'm pretty sure appendectomy were the first solo surgeries in the past?

I don't understand the show's timeline at all.  I could swear that Jo did her first solo surgery (and it was an appendectomy) in season 11.  She did it from start to finish with Bailey watching but not assisting.  So what is the big deal now?  Is it new surgeries or do the writers just not bother to remember things that they get paid to remember, although people who watch the show for "pleasure" do remember.   Why are all of the attendings now like "Whaaaaa???  A Resident do surgery....*EYES BUG*?   Bailey was a resident way back in season 2 and 3 when she was throwing back surgeries on her own all the time.  This show is so dumb.

[skydrome]

I just don't get it why they hired Minnick who specialized in sports rehabilitation to revamp their hospital teaching program. Teaching is great of course but it takes time to become a good doctor and do your surgery or operations. I watched this series train doctors from intern to become real doctors. Her method is not fit for the attendings and residents.

And why I am feeling that the writers are trying to pullout Meredith in this series. Why?????

Just my thoughts! :)

[proserpina65]

17 minutes ago, Daisy said:

I didn't see the first 12 minutes (I came in when Ben was telling Bailey that he doesn't want to be too "First Lady" around her or something like that, so i am assuming people were mad at April, case, case, glare, Title Card). 

 

Let me fix this whole dumb Minnick thing in a paragraph. This is something that I came up with when I was making breakfast (which. was a piece of toast, and some milk and a banana. that's how long it took me to come up with this, Show). 

Problem: Residents aren't learning/progressing as fast as the last few classes (MAGIC'S class)
Reasons: Some are totally personal (everyone sleeping with everyone - and the stupid code of conduct didn't work). Some just don't get it and are super behind (Sadie), some weren't clicking at that moment - Leah. 
Question: How do we fix this. 

<<SHOW Response>> obviously it's because Richard Weber is old and so lets' create DRAHMAH!!! dun dun dun. 

My Solution:
 

Catherine, the board, Richard, and attendings (who... are also on the board. so stupid), come in and talk. 
they realise that some of the people they let go becuse of issues (even if sleeping together/or just slow) - do go out and become Rockstars somewhere else. We're a teaching hospital, do we we fix this. 
 

Instead of having one method of teaching - we embrace the fact that we're a teaching hospital, and we have several styles of teaching. We have Richard's way (of story telling, and teaching, and then letting them think they can do it). We have Minnick's way of just being a Bull in a china shop, you have Gina Davis's way of teaching (which was somewhat Minnick's way but just constantly telling them how THEY do it showing them, in a lab and they go and do it). several ways.  Residents get several ways of learning, attending make notes of what is working best for the student, and then woila, that's how they teach them. (ie: if 3 residents learn x way - keep them together and they all learning X way. if 2 residents need to be a little coddled, that's how you teach them but also push on them). 

How to insert the (natural) dramah: lots of the residents LIKE Minnick's way of teaching (more cutting! more aggressive). Weber is jealous and feels slighted but because this is more organic he can struggle with is he old, is it time to retire, does he want to be like Doctor Faye Dunnaway only brought out for ceremonial reasons.  (But without bringing his love of Vodka back into it).

There is a natural push back because maybe some people aren't COMFORTABLE with the aggressive teaching approach but they feel they need to change how they do things to make it work. 

They have to come together to come what's best for the teaching hospital, as well as ensuring that the quality of care is involved. 

that was over breakfast shonda. Do better. 

I don't have a problem with April taking the position per se - they need someone to run that department, and they don't want to have patient care suffer. I never really got the thought that April ever explained that properly. I am still for Richard, I still think what is happening is wrong, I understand i'm probably the pawn here, and i think we should still stand together, but NOT let meredith's patients (or any other patients) suffer because everyone else is being pigheaded. I am still with you. 

It just came off with. THEY ASKED ME. THIS IS MY JOB, I AM STILL CAPABLE, YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT. 

Minnick is an idiot. I'm sorry you lost your first child, but still. be a damned adult and do your damned job. then you can be all hissy fitty (which would be her right), but I don't feel sorry for her. A Child is not someone you practice on that (someone said Richard coddled Stephanie in this, i dont think so, i think his ultimate thing was, she didn't know that she nicked something. Minnick was helping her with the Camera and she didn't either. if it had been Arizona, the likihood of her going "Let's go back and see." is nill, (like she didn't even say that whilst observing). so i didn't think that being coddled, but i get what you meant there). 

I am so. over. Miranda. Bailey. over. 

Can I watch this show?  Instead of the crap Shonda and her writers are shoveling?

[proserpina65]

15 minutes ago, deaja said:

Very few of the attendings now were residents then, if I remember correctly.  Meredith and Jackson are the only ones, I think?  I think it could go back to Richard, honestly.  He let a system flourish where interns/residents got assigned to cases based on who they were sleeping with. Then these residents had interns they didn't bother teaching.  Bailey went through a stage as resident where she refused to teach because she was pouting over not being named chief resident.  All of the hospitals problems aren't new.  We're on our fourth chief of surgery since the show started and we're still seeing the same problems we saw in season 2 as far as teaching residents. 

You know, I think you're right.  Although was Alex an attending before his suspension, or is Arizona still the peds attending?  And this crop of residents were interns/residents while Cristina was still there.  She, Mere and Alex were supposed to be teaching them back when they first started, weren't they?  I mean, CMA weren't necessarily attendings yet, but as residents they were responsible for teaching incoming classes of interns.  Which, of course, part of the point you're making.  So I guess I'm saying there's plenty of blame to go around, including for Richard, and please ignore my previous not particularly well thought out idea.

1 hour ago, Court said:

I'm pretty sure appendectomy were the first solo surgeries in the past?

Alex's was an amputation.

[funnygirl]

Dr. Minnick is a terrible teacher. How does she even have this job? She didn't even know how to console the parents, she left Stephanie hanging, and while in the OR she basically silenced Arizona who was trying to help (re: teach) Stephanie through a process by talking it out with her, telling Stephanie to use her instincts.  Use her instincts? She's unsure of what she's doing! So next time Dr. Minnick will have a resident take the lead on an open heart surgery and  tell them to "use their instincts"? She's negligent. Her teaching method is a non-method as, yes, these residents have been making cuts in surgeries for quite some time now. The only difference is that the Attendings are getting their hands dirty right along with them and are teaching by example and talking out the procedure.  I couldn't help but think about what Cristina Yang would have to say about this phony. 

And why aren't they using the brand new skills lab that they spent so much time in last season? That's where Dr. Minnick should be posted up with the residents before forcing them upon innocent patients who die from a simply surgery. 

You know why Dr. Minnick's super unqualified self has this job? Because they needed a way to introduce this new character and have a story line with some "drama" for others, but really the main purpose for this Sports Medicine Ortho Surgeon is to conveniently slide right into Callie's place not only as the hospital's ortho surgeon, but as Arizona's new luvah as well. 

[Primetimer]

In just one awesome scene, Richard demonstrates why it's 'Richard Forever, Minnick Never!'

View the full article

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

Can I watch this show?  Instead of the crap Shonda and her writers are shoveling?

Of course. Honestly this show (a LOT of shows) needs like a person or two to actually read something and make tweaks. so many times people just write stuff for DrahMah. and shove everything off to the side - without realising that "DrahMah" can happen by simple logical decisions. We're humans. We are custom made for drahmah. you don't need to make people utterly stupid to do it. LOL

 

55 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

You know, I think you're right.  Although was Alex an attending before his suspension, or is Arizona still the peds attending?  And this crop of residents were interns/residents while Cristina was still there.  She, Mere and Alex were supposed to be teaching them back when they first started, weren't they?  I mean, CMA weren't necessarily attendings yet, but as residents they were responsible for teaching incoming classes of interns.  Which, of course, part of the point you're making.  So I guess I'm saying there's plenty of blame to go around, including for Richard, and please ignore my previous not particularly well thought out idea.

Alex's was an amputation.

the time lime is screwing up. Theoretically - we should have another batch of residents right now. like where this would be relevant. Stephanie et al should either be taking boards (and gone).

 

George had the Appy
Alex had the amputation 
I don't remember everyone else's. (i want to say Meredith had a brain LOL)

[proserpina65]

2 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Of course. Honestly this show (a LOT of shows) needs like a person or two to actually read something and make tweaks. so many times people just write stuff for DrahMah. and shove everything off to the side - without realising that "DrahMah" can happen by simple logical decisions. We're humans. We are custom made for drahmah. you don't need to make people utterly stupid to do it. LOL

 

the time lime is screwing up. Theoretically - we should have another batch of residents right now. like where this would be relevant. Stephanie et al should either be taking boards (and gone).

 

George had the Appy
Alex had the amputation 
I don't remember everyone else's. (i want to say Meredith had a brain LOL)

Meredith's first start-to-finish solo operation was an inflamed colon given to her as a wedding gift by Derek in the episode where Alex & Izzie got married.  But Derek had let her do lots of neuro stuff with minimal supervision prior to that.  I don't know that we ever saw Cristina's actual first solo surgery, or Izzie's, for that matter.

[Daisy]

3 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Meredith's first start-to-finish solo operation was an inflamed colon given to her as a wedding gift by Derek in the episode where Alex & Izzie got married.  But Derek had let her do lots of neuro stuff with minimal supervision prior to that.  I don't know that we ever saw Cristina's actual first solo surgery, or Izzie's, for that matter.

hmm tha's probably why i thought brains. I mean Meredith was basically solo for ages. 
no Izzie never really had a chance to go solo (she got better, then Drunk Weber fired her). Christina's "solo" was sort of like Meredith. She was doing so much of it w/minimal supervision with Burke, could you really say she wasn't "solo"?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Meredith's first start-to-finish solo operation was an inflamed colon given to her as a wedding gift by Derek in the episode where Alex & Izzie got married.  But Derek had let her do lots of neuro stuff with minimal supervision prior to that.  I don't know that we ever saw Cristina's actual first solo surgery, or Izzie's, for that matter.

We did.  I don't remember what it was, but it was on Mrs. Kim from Gilmore Girls. As she was about to start, she told Alex about Izzie's cancer. 

[Crazy Bird Lady]

10 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

The only person who probably won't suffer any guilt at all is Caroline Avery. I don't think she has a conscience.

 

2 hours ago, Gladrags said:

...I'm hoping to see April become more self confident and Catherine become less of a bitch on wheels. A girl can dream. 

That was so disappointing! I wanted to see him bite her head off in a way that only Richard can. 

Catherine. Her name is Catherine. 

 

Sorry, Gladrags. I don't know why my brain wants to confuse the name... but my bad. It's Catherine. (Even after she married Richard, I mostly think of her as "that Avery bitch".)

As for April: I do think she's more confident due to her time as a military doctor. [She might have gained some PTSD, as well --we'll see if they actually go there]. She gained confidence, but *not* emotional maturity. She's like the fragile little girl raised on the farm to be a 'pretty princess' pageant winner, but in the real world she always got chosen last. Now she's a Big Shot but she's still childishly defensive about it. "Oh yeah?! You think I can't do it? I am *so* a good enough doctor to be Chief of Surgery [I am, I am, I am!] and I'm gonna prove it to everybody and I don't care who gets hurt!" 

[iMonrey]

Wow - if the show set out to deliberately craft an episode I would have no interest in whatsoever, they succeeded with flying colors. I hate April with the fire of a thousand suns and the very sight of her or the sound of her voice gives me seizures.

Meanwhile, the show that ended on a cliff-hanger about Alex last year came back and has largely ignored him for the past three episodes. Even Meredith was missing in this one. If the show expects me to give a damn about April, Stephanie, Leah and Minnick they are sorely mistaken.

Quote

I'm pretty sure that the writers intended for this episode to humanize Minnick and make me like her. Instead all it did was show me that her method sucks as much as I thought it did and she is not as good a teacher and mentor as Richard is

So far, she has deliberately severed someone's artery in order to show a resident how to repair it, and gotten a nine-year old boy killed. Who in the hell recommended this woman and held her up as some paragon of teaching?

[kdm07]

All I got from this was the writers recognized an in-show problem, brought in a character to fix that and then executed (and continue to execute) all of it horribly. Most if not all writers rooms have a "head writer" who keeps up with timelines, storylines etc, who's the one for this show because they don't seem to be very good at it.

Edited February 17, 2017 by kdm07

[Court]

3 hours ago, lovelynn said:

Grey's is a mess. I liked when residents were shown to choose a specialty and excel in it (mainly Christina). Stephanie performing a pediatric surgery solo is ridiculous. Isn't neuro supposed to be her focus?! I really want the parents to sue the crap out of Minnick/the hospital/Edwards. 

Excellent point. Jo has the most experience in peds. It should have been her surgery and I don't even like her!

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, Court said:

Excellent point. Jo has the most experience in peds. It should have been her surgery and I don't even like her!

I don't even think JO knows what she wants to do
First it's Ortho 
then Peds. 

heck. Stephanie wanted to be a damned neuro person but now wants to do this? 
I get the whole belief that Shonda wants this show to be like ER (i've never watched so whatevs). but you need to move people and things along, Shonda. and remember your past. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Honestly this show (a LOT of shows) needs like a person or two to actually read something and make tweaks. so many times people just write stuff for DrahMah. and shove everything off to the side - without realising that "DrahMah" can happen by simple logical decisions. We're humans. We are custom made for drahmah. you don't need to make people utterly stupid to do it. LOL

Wow - that perfectly encapsulates what's wrong with this show, not to mention the few daytime soap operas that are left on the air today. The writers are looking for something they can milk DrahMa out of - they come up with some sort of scenario they know will pull all the emotional cords, but they they put so little effort into coming up with a realistic way of getting into that scenario that the whole situation ends up looking absurd and implausible. 

You can see where they though this whole Minnick thing would give them a lot of conflict to work with, pitting one side against another, but they didn't lay the groundwork for it at all. And they very badly damaged what little integrity a lot of characters had left - like Catherine, Bailey, etc., - to get there. 

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

We did.  I don't remember what it was, but it was on Mrs. Kim from Gilmore Girls. As she was about to start, she told Alex about Izzie's cancer. 

You'd think I would have remembered that.  Maybe I just didn't realize it was her first one.

[TVAddict]

Mrs. Kim needed a hernia repair, IIRC.  

[funnygirl]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

You can see where they though this whole Minnick thing would give them a lot of conflict to work with, pitting one side against another, but they didn't lay the groundwork for it at all. And they very badly damaged what little integrity a lot of characters had left - like Catherine, Bailey, etc., - to get there. 

They should've gotten a more seasoned actor to play the educational consultant, much like they got Geena Davis to play Arizona's mentor. This Dr. Minnick, and the actress, is very unconvincing of anyone who could come in and attempt to change things for the better and also carry the authority for it. 

But because the show wants to kill two birds with one stone and fill the Arizona love interest slot, this is just one big reason why the arc is falling flat. 

[Rose-1]

I just watched this episode and agree it was a big mess. If there's one thing that stood out to me - it's that I absolutely cannot STAND Maggie. Eugh.  I think she is just biggest child ever, she actually embarrassed herself. I mean spitting out petulant first grade insults like 'turncoat'? Joking about how meredith doesnt want April killing her patients? Seriously? It's not even funny, and I don't usually like April but I am so sick of them looking down their nose at her when she has more specified training than most of them!! And I also have no issue with her taking the job because I think she's truly genuine when saying she wanted to do right by the hospital. I believe she thought someone needed to step up and and she did that. I agree with what others have said though that she could have made her intentions clearer, although arguably she did try to with Jackson, who she assumed would know her better. (Jackson is another who irritated me more than anything, argh)

minnik, well... I like the idea behind it and I really like the focus on teaching and the residents. But she is making it extremely hard to like her when she does things like run off when a resident is in the state Stephanie was in, and leave the parents to sit and stew about their child while she cries in a closet. I felt very Minimal sympathy. Which is annoying because I do like the idea of the storyline, the execution is just so poor. (Which is becoming quite standard now, another shame). And Webber is a great teacher, yes, but there was a problem with the programme and I don't like how he's made it all about his ego either. I did find the moment with Steph touching though. 

And agree with the screen time.. I HATED penny, she did nothing but suck the air out the show and screen time away from regulars and now minnick is doing the same. Jo again had nothing to add except standing there assisting, I am so sick of her getting the short end of the stick when it comes to surgery. She used to be the Most promising, on par with Steph,  into ortho, and it was like all of a sudden the writers decided she wasn't as good as the rest of them, treated like crap by the attendings and floundering. I hate the inconsistency!! I can't say I really missed Meredith that much but the show does need her and Alex so hopefully next week is better. Man the quality really has worsened so much 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Rose-1

[DearEvette]

Good lord, I watched this just appalled at how very childish everyone was being.  Maggie and April bickering was so dumb.  April, as much as I can't stand her, had the moral advantage.  No matter that she was no longer on "their" side, she made her decision to take on Meredith's job.  But then she completely relinquished all good will by being bratty toward the patient.  It is one thing to snipe with Maggie, it is something else entirely to take out your petty shit on the patient. And then she compounded the issue by kicking Maggie off the surgery, not because of legit surgical reasons, but to flex her power after she herself had already fucked up the first surgery by trying to prove something. UGH.

Also, Catherine is a piece of work.  Jackson is her beloved son.  No way do I think tearing him down in front of April  comes from a place of sincerity.  I can't shake the idea that this is another power play to drive a wedge between them. 

Finally, I have no time for Minnick's tears.  She is awful.  Just awful.   Also the actress' crying scene was terrible.  Compare that to Steph's ugly cry.  Now that was a power crying scene.

[proserpina65]

27 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

And then she compounded the issue by kicking Maggie off the surgery, not because of legit surgical reasons, but to flex her power after she herself had already fucked up the first surgery by trying to prove something.

Why was Maggie even on the case to begin with?  The woman had esophageal cancer - surgery for that wouldn't require a cardio-thoracic surgeon.  That's general surgery.  Unless there was some heart problem I missed hearing about, that is.

[kurtz]

9 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Why was Maggie even on the case to begin with?  The woman had esophageal cancer - surgery for that wouldn't require a cardio-thoracic surgeon.  That's general surgery.  Unless there was some heart problem I missed hearing about, that is.

Esophageal cancer surgery would be performed by a thoracic surgeon. The esophagus is part of the thoracic cavity. 

My father is a retired cardiovascular - thoracic surgeon, so Maggie's presence is consistent with what I remember about his practice. 

[proserpina65]

4 minutes ago, kurtz said:

Esophageal cancer surgery would be performed by a thoracic surgeon. The esophagus is part of the thoracic cavity. 

My father is a retired cardiovascular - thoracic surgeon, so Maggie's presence is consistent with what I remember about his practice. 

Thank you for the info.  I was basing it on the episode where George's father had surgery for the same cancer, and Richard and Bailey did the surgery.  Shoulda known better.  My dad's tumor was already inoperable by the time his doctor found it, so we never got that far.  (Yes, that particular story arc makes me bawl like a baby every time I see it.)

[Snow Fairy]

I really really hope they don't pair up Arizona and Minnick. Like, ever. Every "will they, won't they" alwalys ends up as "they will", and I hope they change it this time.

Also, I don't like Stephanie, since the beginning. Can't really tell why.

Stealing patients and surgeries used to work better in the first season (although I didn't like it then either). Now, with these doctors, it annoys me even more

And Minnick said that the other doctors in other hospitals didn't like her. If she had the same teaching method as here, I'm surprised she wasn't responsible for killing more patients

Edited February 17, 2017 by Snow Fairy

[Court]

Maggie mentioned that her and Mere had both been working on the lady's case and had planned the surgery very carefully to avoid certain issues. 

[Snow Fairy]

I mean more the patients from the ER. They always fought about who takes them. Like the kind in this episode

[alleycatt101]

I want to strip April's face from her traitorous body. She says she "earned" her new position. She didn't. Meredith earned it. April had it dropped in her lap. She's not a General Surgeon, she's a Trauma Surgeon and the way she acts is just going to alienate her from her friends and family. She doesn't deserve to be the new Chief of General, but if Owen had been suspended making her Chief of Trauma would've made sense. But this? When they can finally get Minnick out of the way, April is screwed, because Meredith knows how to run her department and April's just playing dress up.

Edited February 17, 2017 by alleycatt101

[izabella]

43 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

Also, I don't like Stephanie, since the beginning. Can't really tell why.

For the most part, I've been neutral on Stephanie because she hasn't really had any substantive story lines that I cared about.  However, right now, she is the one resident that most often is used to represent that cutthroat competitive attitude toward getting surgeries, and expresses such joy and glee when someone is near death and needs surgery or an amputation or transplant.  I simply cannot stand it in her nor in any of the doctors. 

As we've heard Richard say often:  they see people during the worst day of their lives.  I hate that Steph and others are so fucking gleeful to get a surgery that they hope, wish and pray for someone to need it, like the poor kid that ended up dead in their gleeful surgical hands.  It really leaves a bad, bad taste in my mouth.

I also notice how, for example, when Derek needed surgery on his hand after the crash, or Meredith needs to be revived from a near death experience, there is no glee, no joy, just serious shit that needs to be taken care of by THE MOST EXPERT DOCTOR.  Maybe if they showed Steph jumping for joy that she gets to operate on a near-death Minnick from start to finish all by herself, I might change my mind.

Edited February 17, 2017 by izabella

[redfish]

My friend described Minnick in a way that explained why I don't like her character. She's so brittle. She's supposedly the equivalent of a corporate motivator/efficiency expert and she acts like it's her first assignment ever. She lacks the alpha quality like the Coach Sue on Glee of the "pro" that Bailey supposedly brought in to teach. Sure she only taught sports medicine but she can apply her experience to the students. I'm supposed to believe in her confidence but she's so needy instead of a teacher. Who cares if they don't like her? She was hired to get the job done and the first setback she seems to collapse and maybe it's the actor/character (writers) is lacking the necessary charisma to show how to get it done.

[dmc]

I hate everyone this week

[Gladrags]

5 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

Sorry, Gladrags. I don't know why my brain wants to confuse the name... but my bad. It's Catherine. (Even after she married Richard, I mostly think of her as "that Avery bitch".)

LOL, I like that! :)

29 minutes ago, alleycatt101 said:

I want to strip April's face from her traitorous body. She says she "earned" her new position. She didn't. Meredith earned it. April had it dropped in her lap. She's not a General Surgeon, she's a Trauma Surgeon and the way she acts is just going to alienate her from her friends and family. She doesn't deserve to be the new Chief of General, but if Owen had been suspended making her Chief of Trauma would've made sense. But this? When they can finally get Minnick out of the way, April is screwed, because Meredith knows how to run her department and April's just playing dress up.

April is just as qualified as Meredith to head the department, if not moreso because of her specialized training. 

[moonorchid]

This notion that April is unworthy of chief of general because it's merediths is beyond me. What are mers stellar qualifications? It would be amazing to see where april would be if she had half the breaks and guidance that Meredith did.

i hated it when April yelled at the patient cause, cmon girl! But it was a boiling point of Maggie's incessant childish behavior and everyone being, "you're not dr grey!". I was glad when she kicked Maggie out, all Maggie was going to do was second guess April every step of the way and be overly critical and that's not the kind of environment a doctor should have while operating.

Maggie in the past has mentioned how she was always an outsider because of her smarts and her being so much younger than everyone. Well she seems to be enjoying being in the "cool kids club" now :/

[KaveDweller]

17 hours ago, Starscream said:

I got the impression that she was actually bemoaning the fact that she didn't get to deliver the news.  It's still selfish, but in a way that's clearly meant to make us feel sorry for her (YMMV).

I thought she was just feeling annoyed that Richard stepped up and did what she had failed to do earlier.

7 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

You know, I think you're right.  Although was Alex an attending before his suspension, or is Arizona still the peds attending?  And this crop of residents were interns/residents while Cristina was still there.  She, Mere and Alex were supposed to be teaching them back when they first started, weren't they?  I mean, CMA weren't necessarily attendings yet, but as residents they were responsible for teaching incoming classes of interns.  Which, of course, part of the point you're making.  So I guess I'm saying there's plenty of blame to go around, including for Richard, and please ignore my previous not particularly well thought out idea.

Alex's was an amputation.

Alex was the peds attending because Arizona is now technically the attending for neo-natal surgeory or whatever Gina Davis taught her. When she changed jobs it is what allowed Alex to come back from that other place he was working. But I guess since she used to be peds attending when Alex isn't there she fills in? 

And yes, they had the original interns start teaching new interns when they were in their second year of their residency.  In the beginning, Bailey was teaching them and she was still a resident at that point. 

1 hour ago, izabella said:

As we've heard Richard say often:  they see people during the worst day of their lives.  I hate that Steph and others are so fucking gleeful to get a surgery that they hope, wish and pray for someone to need it, like the poor kid that ended up dead in their gleeful surgical hands.  It really leaves a bad, bad taste in my mouth.

I also notice how, for example, when Derek needed surgery on his hand after the crash, or Meredith needs to be revived from a near death experience, there is no glee, no joy, just serious shit that needs to be taken care of by THE MOST EXPERT DOCTOR.  Maybe if they showed Steph jumping for joy that she gets to operate on a near-death Minnick from start to finish all by herself, I might change my mind.

People have always been like that on this show. I remember in the first season the interns would get so excited about any weird/rare case that came in. Especially Christina, didn't she do it in front of the patients sometimes? 

[Rae Spellman]

18 hours ago, Starscream said:

Oh, and I had to laugh when it was mentioned that Meredith was a good chief of general because she had "put in the time."  She's been an attending for what?  Four, five years?  And she spent a year jackin' it in San Diego after Derek died, so... lol.

I've wondered about all these 30-40 year old chiefs. Presumably there are dozens and dozens of capable surgeons/teachers at Grey Sloan who have 10+ years more experience than Meredith, April, Jackson, Maggie, Amelia, Alex, etc who ALL got passed over for chief because they weren't sleeping with, related to, or friends with the decision makers.

[flickers]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

For the most part, I've been neutral on Stephanie because she hasn't really had any substantive story lines that I cared about.  However, right now, she is the one resident that most often is used to represent that cutthroat competitive attitude toward getting surgeries, and expresses such joy and glee when someone is near death and needs surgery or an amputation or transplant.  I simply cannot stand it in her nor in any of the doctors. 

As we've heard Richard say often:  they see people during the worst day of their lives.  I hate that Steph and others are so fucking gleeful to get a surgery that they hope, wish and pray for someone to need it, like the poor kid that ended up dead in their gleeful surgical hands.  It really leaves a bad, bad taste in my mouth.

I also notice how, for example, when Derek needed surgery on his hand after the crash, or Meredith needs to be revived from a near death experience, there is no glee, no joy, just serious shit that needs to be taken care of by THE MOST EXPERT DOCTOR.  Maybe if they showed Steph jumping for joy that she gets to operate on a near-death Minnick from start to finish all by herself, I might change my mind.

Girl, you had me at "near-death Minnick"...

[iMonrey]

Quote

Also, I don't like Stephanie, since the beginning. Can't really tell why.

I'm ambivalent about her, as well as Leah, Ben, and DeLuca. None of these characters was ever really fleshed out IMO. I still struggle to remember their names at times. The only thing I seem to know about Stephanie is that she dated Jackson when he was on the rebound and then he dumped her to marry April. That's about it. I know next to nothing about DeLuca aside from the fact that he was briefly involved with Maggie, and that Alex punched him in the face. I know literally zero about Leah except she left then came back. The only "newish" character they've put any effort into is Jo and that's just because she was hooked up with Alex. Lately they seem to have abandoned her.

I don't know why all these characters seem so generic to me, but they do. They've been defined by their hookups and their positions rather than personality or background.