S34: Sandra Diaz-Twine

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I said this in the ep thread, but I'm saying it here again because it truly just boggles my mind: How do some viewers still not see what a great player Sandra is? I just, I can't fathom it. She is a freak of nature!

That being said though, I think it was mistake of her not to go with Hali's plan of getting rid of Brad. Now, ultimately, it probably wouldn't have worked because JT likely would have told Brad and then the idol would've been used on Brad and Malcom still would've gone. But still. 

I'd like to know why Sandra sees Sierra as such a threat. I'm thinking there's some pre-game reason for that.

I don't know either, Peach!

The thing is, (and I'll have to re-watch the tribal), Sandra flat out said - she's going for Brad. so i don't specifically know what the heck that made them stay the same (Sierra). Also - I think she was targeting Sierra as a way to appease Malcolm/JT in "i don't mind getting rid of strong people - it doesn't just have to be the guys."  That's the way I see it. 

Honestly, I think Sandra perfected the Vecepia "Anyone but me" technique. (She's the first one who I really contribute that technique to). she does try to push her agenda - but she makes it into more of a team think, so if they don't want to - she's like fine, then you tell me who to go for. instead of standing her ground (something Cirie does, and it has cost her). You know Sandra will shoot her mouth - but shes not going to shoot her foot if it gets her further. So she'll be all "i'm a'ginst you Russell," - but she'll play with him if it gets her further. I don't have a problem with the Sass and the Arrogance because she'lll also laugh at herself at her crappy play in immunities (and has brought it up in tribals, etc), and other things she's not good at. 

Jeff (and others) continually bring up she's never lost. So being all mewling and "oh no," about it, makes no sense. She's owning it.  She's shining a a light on "yah, people, i've won. twice." so you don't forget it - but she's also making moves to see. I'm the Queen but hey, you know, I'm not always running the show, what do you want to do. That's Sandra's power.  And for me i'd rather have someone shoot me in the face, like Sandra does (and you'll always know where you stand) - vs. the player who smiles at you and goes "we good" and shoots you in the back. 

[laurakaye]

As for Sandra being Mouthy McBossyPants...I think she's doing exactly what she knows she needs to do.  If Sandra all of a sudden became pensive and quiet?  Her tribemates would need to sleep with one eye open and hide the sharp objects, IMO.  As long as she's chatting up a storm and telling everyone how it's gonna be, at least it gives everyone an idea of what she's thinking.  They might as well let her think she's Queen, because if they don't get her the heck out of there pretty soon, she's going to bank another million.

[Rachel RSL]

Do we know for sure that Hali wanted the other tribe to vote for Brad? The editing made it so hard to figure out what was going on. It's possible she could have been hinting to her own tribe, if you want me to vote with you, vote for Malcolm, a physical threat. In fact, I was a little surprised when Sandra immediately started whispering that Hali wanted Brad out based on that one comment because I had just assumed she was referring to Malcolm. Poor pretty Malcolm. I'm so glad Sandra is still there but I'm sad we lost the eye candy.

I would also like to know why Sierra is seen as a threat. And Sierra also assumed she was being targeted even before TC started. I know they like deceptive editing in order to keep viewers in suspense but sometimes it just leaves us puzzled. 

[seltzer3]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I said this in the ep thread, but I'm saying it here again because it truly just boggles my mind: How do some viewers still not see what a great player Sandra is? I just, I can't fathom it. She is a freak of nature!

That being said though, I think it was mistake of her not to go with Hali's plan of getting rid of Brad. Now, ultimately, it probably wouldn't have worked because JT likely would have told Brad and then the idol would've been used on Brad and Malcom still would've gone. But still. 

I'd like to know why Sandra sees Sierra as such a threat. I'm thinking there's some pre-game reason for that.

Sierra is a threat makes sense.  In returnee seasons, young females that everyone has no recollection about tend to do very well  (Amber, Parvati (Micronesia), Amanda (Micronesia), Kelley W etc.).

Edited March 23, 2017 by seltzer3

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, seltzer3 said:

Sierra is a threat makes sense.  In returnee seasons, young females that everyone has no recollection about tend to do very well  (Amber, Parvati (Micronesia), Amanda (Micronesia), Kelley W etc.).

This is a good point. This is actually precisely why I chose Hali for my fantasy team! So maybe Sandra was thinking along those lines. 

But she did actually mention Sierra as a physical threat and I don't remember Sierra being a huge physical presence in challenges in WA. Though, to be fair, I don't remember too much about her or WA in general so!

[methodwriter85]

Parvati laughing as she told Sandra what a bitch she was for hiding bananas has to be one of my favorite moments for Survivor. One bitch admiring another bitch. LOL.

I honestly thought we would never see Sandra again because I can't picture her being allowed near jury, let alone final tribal council. That the worst she can possibly do this season is 5th voted out is pretty amazing.

[Nashville]

9 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

But she did actually mention Sierra as a physical threat and I don't remember Sierra being a huge physical presence in challenges in WA. Though, to be fair, I don't remember too much about her or WA in general so!

Same here - although I have to confess I've done my level best to purge ANY recollection of WA from my memory.  I thought WA sucked vapor from the ass-end of a dead groundhog.

[piequinn35]

Sandra was just referring to Eyebrows' tribe, her against Tai/Debbie/Hali who is the physical threat among the four, if she is gone, only 1 is strong in that tribe=Brad.

[Vyk]

2 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

Sandra was just referring to Eyebrows' tribe, her against Tai/Debbie/Hali who is the physical threat among the four, if she is gone, only 1 is strong in that tribe=Brad.

Agreed.  The rest of the tribe probably might've preferred the strong man, Brad, but since J.T. would never go for it, better to go for the strong woman in Sierra.

[seltzer3]

In terms of physical threat.  Sierra even though she never won immunity, did really well in team challenges (she was the one that did shooting hoops challenge).  There were also several times she barely lost to Mike when, Mike went on his immunity run.

Sandra in her pregame interviews, was very astute.  She wanted to target that Koah Rang 4, because she said that in all-star seasons, the seasons that have the most representatives always did well (Australia--> All Stars, Cook Islands--> Micronesia, Micronesia--> Heroes vs Villains, Cagayan--> Cambodia).  She also wanted to target people like Sierra, based off of the trend of unknown female doing very well.

[jsm1125]

11 minutes ago, seltzer3 said:

In terms of physical threat.  Sierra even though she never won immunity, did really well in team challenges (she was the one that did shooting hoops challenge).  There were also several times she barely lost to Mike when, Mike went on his immunity run.

Sandra in her pregame interviews, was very astute.  She wanted to target that Koah Rang 4, because she said that in all-star seasons, the seasons that have the most representatives always did well (Australia--> All Stars, Cook Islands--> Micronesia, Micronesia--> Heroes vs Villains, Cagayan--> Cambodia).  She also wanted to target people like Sierra, based off of the trend of unknown female doing very well.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting Sandra, but wasn't Parvati the only one who did well in Micronesia (Penner was evacuated pre-merge and Ozzy came in 9th) and in Heroes vs. Villains (Cirie and James were voted out pre-merge and Amanda came in 9th)? I agree with her about the unknown female trend, however.

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, seltzer3 said:

In terms of physical threat.  Sierra even though she never won immunity, did really well in team challenges (she was the one that did shooting hoops challenge).  

Didn't we find out later that Sierra didn't actually throw all those/throw the winning one? 

But in any case, from what we've heard NuNuku wanted Brad out, but JT wouldn't do it, so they went with the next best option in Sierra, which makes sense.

Edited March 24, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[laurakaye]

20 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This is a good point. This is actually precisely why I chose Hali for my fantasy team! So maybe Sandra was thinking along those lines. 

 

OMG there's Fantasy Survivor??  And how do I join????

[NutMeg]

Each tribal council, I've been on the edge of my seat because she's edited as a likely target, and thus I half listen to TC, and I realize I want her to go deep in the  game. Because I like the way she plays, that enables her to tell players, looking them in the eye, that she doesn't like them (which doesn't prevent them, like and "Jonny Fairplay", to vote for her, not reluctantly but with a smile).

I'm surprised how these returnees season affect me. I don't care about the returnees who just played but I feel weirdly protective about some old timers and really rooting for them.  

[Daisy]

On 3/23/2017 at 11:33 PM, jsm1125 said:

Maybe I'm misinterpreting Sandra, but wasn't Parvati the only one who did well in Micronesia (Penner was evacuated pre-merge and Ozzy came in 9th) and in Heroes vs. Villains (Cirie and James were voted out pre-merge and Amanda came in 9th)? I agree with her about the unknown female trend, however.

But they still ultimately go far (for the most part) because of the support and knowing each other.  i think it's more eliminate a good chunk of the "major reps" before merge, so they don't form a collation 

On 3/24/2017 at 2:15 PM, laurakaye said:

OMG there's Fantasy Survivor??  And how do I join????

Oh yah! I'm in one. (Sandra's my winner vote. lol i was the last to pick, and how can i go against my girl). some forums and places have them, but we don't have one here. we should do this next year. I'll be happy to run it (or someone can help me. i suuuccccckkk at math LOL)

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

some forums and places have them, but we don't have one here. we should do this next year. I'll be happy to run it (or someone can help me. i suuuccccckkk at math LOL)

I've always wanted to do a fantasy game here, but I don't know if it'd be allowed. Plus, it seems like a lot of work lol.

3 hours ago, NutMeg said:

Each tribal council, I've been on the edge of my seat because she's edited as a likely target, and thus I half listen to TC, and I realize I want her to go deep in the  game. Because I like the way she plays, that enables her to tell players, looking them in the eye, that she doesn't like them (which doesn't prevent them, like and "Jonny Fairplay", to vote for her, not reluctantly but with a smile).

Right! I mean I knew I was rooting for her, but every week it just becomes more clear as I sit there praying she doesn't go. The editing this season is so bad for my nerves!

Edited March 25, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Daisy]

Sandra. is . awesome. 
That is all (Pls. make it to the jury, girl.)

[Lantern7]

Indeed. She's been to all but one Tribal Councils, and her name hasn't been written down once. If she does get voted out, she'd probably stay in the game by smacking Probst upside the head. "Wow. Was not expecting that. I'd have security cuff you and drag you to the Ponderosa . . . but fuck it, you're staying. Double elimination next time!"

[kikaha]

In the first episode, Sandra agreed with Tony: the only way either could win would be sitting next to winners at FTC.  Now Sandra has targeted and booted both the other two winners.  If she meant what she said earlier, she just committed Survivor suicide. 

[ByaNose]

3 minutes ago, kikaha said:

In the first episode, Sandra agreed with Tony: the only way either could win would be sitting next to winners at FTC.  Now Sandra has targeted and booted both the other two winners.  If she meant what she said earlier, she just committed Survivor suicide. 

She can still use the argument that she had a hand in them getting voted out. I still don't think she'll make the Final 4 but if she was lucky enough to make it to the Final 2 she would have a case to present. Of course, it would depend who she is sitting next to. There are still a lot of strong players left.

[Hera]

I think a Survivor jury would have a hard time voting for anyone who lets Sandra get to the end a third time, so I think she'd definitely win if she could get that far. However, I still think her edit points to her getting booted before then. I hope she makes it to the jury, though. I'd love to see what sort of speech she makes/question she asks.

[fishcakes]

23 minutes ago, kikaha said:

In the first episode, Sandra agreed with Tony: the only way either could win would be sitting next to winners at FTC.  Now Sandra has targeted and booted both the other two winners.  If she meant what she said earlier, she just committed Survivor suicide. 

I doubt she meant it. She'd probably rather be sitting next to a winner, but she's been very good at jury management twice now so if she gets to the end, I think she believes she can win again regardless of who's next to her, and she's probably correct. Besides, Tony and JT didn't really give her a choice. Both were targeting her, so she had to get them first.

[NutMeg]

6 hours ago, kikaha said:

In the first episode, Sandra agreed with Tony: the only way either could win would be sitting next to winners at FTC.  Now Sandra has targeted and booted both the other two winners.  If she meant what she said earlier, she just committed Survivor suicide. 

Sandra is very good at adapting her strategy to circumstances, which is a strong quality to have in this game. I think she meant it with Tony initially, but after he overreacted to seeing her speak with Troy, she didn't think it would be worth it to spend the game mollifying him and so she just cut him out. JT, as we saw, wanted het out, which I'm sure she must have sensed, and also had loyalties to other people, so it made sense to vote him out. For the rest, she gives the impression of playing it one day at a time and going with her instincts rather than having a clearly mapped out plan. So far it's served her well.

[kikaha]

NutMeg, I agree 100% that flexibility is crucial in Survivor.  I wonder if she was right back then, though, about how she can win this season.  If she was, she is now screwed, blued and tattooed. 

[Special K]

I don't think she'll make it to FTC. 

I'm loving it but it can't last.  At this point, I feel like every episode I get to see Sandra still in the game is a gift from the Survivor gods to me personally.

[peachmangosteen]

41 minutes ago, Special K said:

At this point, I feel like every episode I get to see Sandra still in the game is a gift from the Survivor gods to me personally.

LMAO right! I never expected to get this much classic Sandra entertainment this season and I am just relishing it while I can. Because yes, it will come to an end soon.

[Special K]

21 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

LMAO right! I never expected to get this much classic Sandra entertainment this season and I am just relishing it while I can. Because yes, it will come to an end soon.

To be honest, I worried that we'd get a shadow-of-her-former-self Sandra, as in Colby and some other returnees. Surely she had mellowed, gotten tired, etc., over the years.  Or that she'd just get booted first and we wouldn't know what she could still bring.

To see the same glee and smarts and prowess is just so great.

[ProfCrash]

The fact that the editors are actually showing Sandra play the game makes me think that she is out some time soon. Her first two seasons she was hidden. It is part of the reason people think that her wins were flukes. We saw hints but very little out right game play. This time we are seeing her play the game. I don't think it is because she has changed her tactics. I want it to be because the editors are tired of people bitching about how they don't show Sandra's game and she wins but I don't think that is the case.

Sandra is a known entity. Everyone out there should know how dangerous she is. The way she is playing demonstrates how dangerous she is. I think she is screwed but I am enjoying watching her.

She owns being a villain. She loves playing the game. Interviews with other Survivors point to them liking her as a person and being fine with her so I get the feeling that she is not an asshole while she is playing. She seems to be able to balance her bark and bite with good will and wit.

[SVNBob]

10 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Interviews with other Survivors point to them liking her as a person and being fine with her so I get the feeling that she is not an asshole while she is playing.

And you always know where you stand with Sandra.  If she's on your side, she's your best ally.  But go up against her, and she'll start sharpening the knife with your name on it immediately.  And she doesn't stab people in the back; she cuts their throat while looking them in the eye.  (Blindsides not withstanding.)

But throughout all of that, she never changes her personality.  She's just as blunt, vulgar, and honest as your enemy as she is as your friend.  (Ok, maybe a little more blunt and vulgar when you're an enemy.)  And I think its that consistent personality that is the source of her charm.

[303420]

I fairly worship Sandra so it's so great to see so much Sandra enthusiasm this time around.

In Debbie's thread, there is a discussion about the "mom" archetype and how older women who don't play it have a hard time in the game. 

1 hour ago, kikaha said:

Sandra has never acted like her tribes' mom.  Yet she's won twice.  

That was my response too - that Sandra is a glaring example of an actual mom who never played archetype and pulled it off.

However, she's not really an "older woman;" she's only 42 now. Nevertheless, I certainly have always perceived her as significantly older than me even though we are separated by less than six months. I guess she's always seemed early 40s to me, when that seemed "old," before I was there.

That she was in her 30s the first two times she played might suggest that despite being an actual mom, she wasn't subject to the mom expectations because she was too young.

I'm sort of going off the rails here, but I'm curious if others have an opinion on this matter.

On 3/30/2017 at 1:26 PM, kikaha said:

In the first episode, Sandra agreed with Tony: the only way either could win would be sitting next to winners at FTC.  Now Sandra has targeted and booted both the other two winners.  If she meant what she said earlier, she just committed Survivor suicide. 

 

On 3/30/2017 at 1:57 PM, fishcakes said:

I doubt she meant it. She'd probably rather be sitting next to a winner, but she's been very good at jury management twice now so if she gets to the end, I think she believes she can win again regardless of who's next to her, and she's probably correct. Besides, Tony and JT didn't really give her a choice. Both were targeting her, so she had to get them first.

This is another example of how Sandra's "anyone but me" strategy is much more nuanced than it's typically given credit for. She understands a matter of fundamental importance: you can't win if you're not here in three days. You see so many people forget that and then find that their laser-like focus on the FTC gets them a jury seat, or worse.

[azshadowwalker]

On 3/31/2017 at 0:17 PM, ProfCrash said:

The fact that the editors are actually showing Sandra play the game makes me think that she is out some time soon. Her first two seasons she was hidden. It is part of the reason people think that her wins were flukes. We saw hints but very little out right game play. This time we are seeing her play the game. I don't think it is because she has changed her tactics. I want it to be because the editors are tired of people bitching about how they don't show Sandra's game and she wins but I don't think that is the case.

I think it's because of who she played with previously. The editors were more interested in Rupert and Fairplay back in Pearl Islands. In HvV, she had those two plus BRob, Russell, JT, Parvati. I don't think her game has drastically changed. I think the people have changed. Other than Tony and Debbie, she's the biggest personality out there. She provides the best TV right now. 

[Lantern7]

*sigh* Well, it had to happen sooner or later. I really wanted it to be "later," though. I don't think Sandra's inability to make the merge/jury should taint her two wins. Even if Burnett brings in a field of all the prior champs but her for S36, nobody can really touch her. I mean, others can outwit and outplay, but she's basically the epitome of "outlast."

Is it too much to hope that CBS puts out a highlights montage set to "It's So Hard To Say Goodbye To Yesterday" in Sandra's honor? She's not really a lifer, but it's gonna be weird not to see her. She does hold the record for most consecutive days played, right?

[pamplemousse]

This season officially sucks now.

[KimberStormer]

The Queen is Dead, Long Live the Queen!  My fears about Sandra hurting her legacy this season was completely unfounded; in my opinion at least, she rather strengthened it.  She is incredible and I love her.

[Rachel RSL]

8 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

 My fears about Sandra hurting her legacy this season was completely unfounded; in my opinion at least, she rather strengthened it.  She is incredible and I love her.

Same! I honestly expected everyone to vote her out first so the fact that she made it though 16 days and several TCs is amazing to me. 

[Jobiska]

I enjoyed how someone caught all of Sandra's expressions when people were wondering who did her "dirty deeds":https://twitter.com/patrickramoray/status/847424467047403521

[Rachel RSL]

Here's another exit interview. My favourite part:

Quote

SK: Do you still believe you're the best player of all time?

SDT: I am. If I'm not, who is? You tell me.

 

[Vyk]

I knew it was coming, but I was still so sad when it happened.

Sandra, you will always be considered one of the best players to me.  None of your bitter, nasty haters will convince me otherwise.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Vyk

[pamplemousse]

19 hours ago, Vyk said:

I knew it was coming, but I was still so sad when it happened.

Sandra, you will always be considered one of the best players to me.  None of your bitter, nasty haters will convince me otherwise.

Exactly. I can't hate on a strong, straight-shooting woman who doesn't take any shit. Sandra has an ego, big deal, her ego is still smaller than 99.5% of men in the world (conservative estimate, I'm probably low-balling it). She talks herself up, but she sings her own praises much less than most people (especially some of the "alpha" males) who've been on the show and haven't accomplished a speck of what she has in Survivor.

[ICantDoThatDave]

Carried over from the "Vote Early, Vote Often" thread because it was off-topic.  Sandra was not in any way a manipulator in Heroes vs. Villains.  I went back & skimmed through the ew.com recaps of that season.  She only won because she failed to pull off any of her post-merge plans...

Ep 10

"Recognizing an opportunity to get in good with the Heroes, Sandra approached the tie-dyed one, and told him that Russell and Parvati were running the show."

…

"But why throw an idol away to save Sandra, someone who is so on the outs of her own tribe she’s likely to swap to the Heroes side next week?"

http://ew.com/recap/survivor-recap-season20-episode10/3/

Ep 11

"If [Russell] doesn’t do that, then Candice and Sandra stick with the other Heroes, Parvati goes home, and there is a whole new pecking order, with Russell on the bottom."

http://ew.com/recap/survivor-recap-season20-episode11/2/

Ep 12

No mention of Sandra

Ep 13

"Parvati’s victory seemed to seal Rupert’s fate, but we still got some fireworks back at camp when Sandra told Rupert to get rid of Russell. Rupert then went straight over and told the toothless wonder, leading Russell to confront Sandra by asking ”Are you with me or are you against me?” Sandra’s response: ”I’m against you, Russell.” "

http://ew.com/recap/survivor-recap-season20-episode13/3/

Ep 14

Russell won immunity & he & Parvati chose to take Sandra with them.

 

Post-merge she constantly tried to vote off Russell (& Parvati) but she failed every time.  And then she won because they chose to bring her to the Final Three, where the Jury hated Russell & Parvati so much they gave her the win.  Nothing she wanted to do worked & she won because of it. I don't hate Sandra at all - she's entertaining & makes for good drama, which is what I mostly care about.  I just dispute that she's any sort of Master Manipulator.

I even scanned some of the pre-merge recaps from that season & she was barely mentioned except for how bad she was at challenges.

[Oholibamah]

1 hour ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

Carried over from the "Vote Early, Vote Often" thread because it was off-topic.  Sandra was not in any way a manipulator in Heroes vs. Villains.  I went back & skimmed through the ew.com recaps of that season.  She only won because she failed to pull off any of her post-merge plans...

Ep 10

"Recognizing an opportunity to get in good with the Heroes, Sandra approached the tie-dyed one, and told him that Russell and Parvati were running the show."

…

"But why throw an idol away to save Sandra, someone who is so on the outs of her own tribe she’s likely to swap to the Heroes side next week?"

http://ew.com/recap/survivor-recap-season20-episode10/3/

Ep 11

"If [Russell] doesn’t do that, then Candice and Sandra stick with the other Heroes, Parvati goes home, and there is a whole new pecking order, with Russell on the bottom."

http://ew.com/recap/survivor-recap-season20-episode11/2/

Ep 12

No mention of Sandra

Ep 13

"Parvati’s victory seemed to seal Rupert’s fate, but we still got some fireworks back at camp when Sandra told Rupert to get rid of Russell. Rupert then went straight over and told the toothless wonder, leading Russell to confront Sandra by asking ”Are you with me or are you against me?” Sandra’s response: ”I’m against you, Russell.” "

http://ew.com/recap/survivor-recap-season20-episode13/3/

Ep 14

Russell won immunity & he & Parvati chose to take Sandra with them.

 

Post-merge she constantly tried to vote off Russell (& Parvati) but she failed every time.  And then she won because they chose to bring her to the Final Three, where the Jury hated Russell & Parvati so much they gave her the win.  Nothing she wanted to do worked & she won because of it. I don't hate Sandra at all - she's entertaining & makes for good drama, which is what I mostly care about.  I just dispute that she's any sort of Master Manipulator.

I even scanned some of the pre-merge recaps from that season & she was barely mentioned except for how bad she was at challenges.

This is what I find very satisfying about how she was portrayed this season.

The scene where Ozzy, Andrea and Sarah are mesmerized by Sandra perfectly encapsulates why she won twice: her people skills are amazing. Yet, editing was never able to succinctly show just how good Sandra is with people. This likely has to do with Sandra being underestimated, hence no footage of people talking about falling under her spell. But now people see it, and it makes the edit.

The difficulty of showing a strong social game on television is mentioned often, which I think is what happened on HvV. Yet, the list of Sandra mentions that you posted kinda proves it: she consistently opposed the most powerful people in the game, but was always able to talk herself back in with them. Parvati knew Sandra would be a threat at FTC, but Sandra played into Russell's ego perfectly. 

[SVNBob]

3 hours ago, Oholibamah said:

Yet, the list of Sandra mentions that you posted kinda proves it: she consistently opposed the most powerful people in the game, but was always able to talk herself back in with them.

Exactly.  Many people look at that list as evidence she couldn't manipulate the Heroes.  But it's actually evidence that she was manipulating the Villains.  Or at least, the one Villain.

Parvati knew, because game recognizes game.

[KimberStormer]

Sandra definitely got Coach out pre-merge with exactly the sort of soft touch subtle thing she did with JT this season.  Just a sort of "oh Russell did you know Coach was talking about voting you out?"  Then basically getting out of the way and letting two Survivor wackos for the ages get entangled with each other.

What's fascinating about this move to me is it really shows the "for want of a nail" sort of butterfly effect that happens, doubtless, most seasons of Survivor.  Had Sandra not put that bug in Russell's ear, she or Courtney goes home, and Rupert and JT's imaginary women's alliance vanishes, they have no reason to think it exists anymore.  So JT does not pass the idol, Parvati does not have the two idols to make her amazing play, so the Heroes quite possibly get the upper hand at the merge and one of them, maybe Amanda, wins the game (even Amanda cannot lose to Candice and Danielle, for example).  And now we're talking about Amanda as one of the greatest ever to play, three trips to FTC being an unprecedented feat....in any case we certainly cannot possibly conceive of the HvV that did happen, since it is so outrageously unlikely.  Nobody coming up with a counterfactual of that game would say, "Well what if Coach went home, and so they thought it was a women's alliance, so they gave Russell the idol, and Parvati used two idols at once to make her whole tribe immune..."

That's sort of why I try to think about moves in terms of what the players know when they make them, not how they turn out; because the things that happen in the game could be almost any crazy thing.

Edited April 8, 2017 by KimberStormer

[303420]

Also, we can't assume that even if she'd convinced the heroes, that she would have made the ultimate decision to join them. She was feeling out options and the heroes one was not available. If it had been, though, she still might've concluded that her best chance was with the villains and changed nothing. 

[seltzer3]

So apparently JT killed a goat and was the one who suggested it, not Sandra.

 

http://ew.com/tv/2017/04/06/survivor-sandra-diaz-twine-game-changers-goat/

[Lantern7]

Well, JT is a "good ole boy" and can't be seen doing any wrong that can't be swept under the rug. Much easier to make Sandra the villain there. And she helped boot him off before the merge, so she's extra-extra-evil.

[omophagia]

I don't think this season diminishes Sandra's status in any way, and I agree with her assessment that (barring an all-winners season) there likely won't be another repeat winner. 

What stings the most for me is knowing who the players responsible for her boot were: It would be one thing if she had gotten voted out by people who have shown themselves to be some of the game's strongest strategists. I mean, if someone like Cirie or Malcolm had been at the helm of her boot, that wouldn't get under my skin.

That it was Zeke (who will always be more impressed with his gameplay than anyone else will be), Sarah (who fell into the swing-vote trap that savvy players have known about since the Amazon season), and especially Tai (who... I am sure is a lovely human being in real life, but oh my God)... Good for them for recognizing her as a threat and executing it, but that's the murderer's row who took out the only two-time winner? It just feels wrong.

But still, those types of dynamics are ultimately what makes the show compelling: It's never precisely the same game twice, and no one is invincible!

[legaleagle53]

One of the things that always makes me think of Sandra as a badass was an endurance challenge she participated in in her second season.  She and the other castaways were being made to stand barefoot on some narrow wooden ledges that got progressively narrower as the challenge went on, and the result was quite hard on everyone's feet (to say nothing of being extremely painful).  Jeff at one point noted that Sandra didn't seem to be bothered at all by the grueling discomfort of that particular challenge, and in response, she just smiled and said, "Jeff, I had two kids and never took so much as an aspirin."  That line endeared her to me forever.

Long live the Queen!

[Hanahope]

In her interview with Rob Cesterino on RHAP, she explained that she thought she got Ozzy to be her new Malcolm, told him she'd vote however he wanted, but when Tai called out Ozzy at the TC, plus kept putting his hand on his pocket (suggesting that he had an idol), Ozzy got worried and so they decided to go stick with the Sandra plan.  

She also explained that JT was never in trouble when it seemed like a 5-1 vote, that she had told JT that the tribe wanted to vote out Aubry, but that JT went and told Aubry that info, so that did put him back on the bottom.  She still wouldn't have voted him out had he not screwed the tribe by telling Brad they were voting for Sierra.  She apparently had some agreement with Brad that she wouldn't vote him and he wouldn't vote her, so Brad was never going to have his tribe target Sandra as JT wanted/thought.  She said that had JT just kept his mouth shut, everything would have been fine (though its always still possible that if Brad knew he was safe because Sandra wouldn't target him, he might still have guessed their target to be Sierra and had Tai play the idol on Sierra and Malcolm would have still gone home).

[pythonite]

This season is already missing her. Miss her plotting. Other players are too unreadable, or random crazies.