S04.E03: Lazaretto

[zxy556575]

Maybe it was my mood but this episode was so sad. Poor Win. Poor, stoic Thursday trying to comfort her but not knowing how or why. Aimlessly making his own sandwiches. Morse being put through the emotional wringer by Susan's mother. Morse not being able to find the words to get through to Joan. Morse's conversation with Monica. SAD, all of it.

Still no idea why Joan went off the rails but am worried in advance what will happen when Thursday finds out Morse went to see her.

As for the murders, I figured it must be the creepy hospital radio guy or the mean head nurse but didn't put all that much thought into it. I prefer that Morse and Thursday do the hard detective lifting.

[Pogojoco]

Second week in a row that a young woman is the murderer. Don't know what, if anything, that means. Past seasons they were often the victims, this season they kill. 

There are a lot of young women around. A hell of a lot of discussion about Morse's romantic life in this episode- Monica, Susan, Joan. All they needed was that girl he went to school with, who had that massive crush on him, (who appeared in Rocket) to complete the set. I much prefer Trewlove as a kid sister type than a romantic type for Morse. Ugh on Susan's mother....he pissed off the Masons! That's why he failed his Sergeant's! 

Also, Joan! Phone your mother. (I also don't get that whole thing- why it's so dramatic. It's like we're missing scenes from last season.) Tarot cards. 

Edited January 24, 2017 by Pogojoco

[Kryptogal]

Joan is feeling guilty over (unknowingly) falling for a bad guy and giving him info about the bank, and that her co-worker died as a result.  I understand her feelings, but not her response.  Running away is rather juvenile.  And what is she actually doing?  She answered the door in her lingerie, and later a man showed up (removing his wedding ring before going into her apartment.)  Is she a kept woman, or even a prostitute?  Whatever is up with her, I think her father is going to find out about Morse visiting her.

Poor Morse, so unlucky in love.  He either screws up, like with Monica, is too late, like with Joan, or not the right social level, as with Susan.  Susan's mother was so cruel to him. Morse still isn't over Susan's rejection.  

While I feel sorry for Thursday, I feel especially sorry for Win.  She's alone most of the day, without either child around.  She's profoundly lonely and confused as to why Joan hasn't turned to her family after her ordeal.  Win doesn't understand the rejection.  Frankly, I don't understand Joan's rejection either.

I hope we find out what's going on with the tarot cards at the end of the episodes.

[humbleopinion]

 Don't know why but so very intriguing that we are getting a parade of ALL of Morse's women and/or their mothers.

Joan...wtf...opening the door in your slip and sex hair?

Anticipating some  afternoon delight with your married bf, I presume.

What is with the hoochie momma crocheted top with all the gaps... Joan?

Don't know why the flower welding dude bothered to take off the wedding ring, Joan knows he's married but goes along with the charade for his sake.

Will Morse tell the Thursdays that Joan is okay before Win goes over the deep end?

Is it a May-December romance between Truelove and Bright? Just put that in to make you laugh...

Did the tarot card dealer make the reverse charge hang up call to Morse from Leamington in the phone booth next to Joan's flat?

So many questions unanswered.....

[Popples]

Ah, Lady Flintshire is still supremely bitchy as ever, I see.

I have a feeling this is going to be the third series in a row that ends with me saying, "Poor Win." Joan, what are you doing? That sawdust and onion factory next door kicked in when Fred said how he would do anything for Win, but he couldn't help fix a problem if he didn't know what it was. After watching so many shows with long-time married couples be so miserable with each other, Fred and Win are heart-achingly refreshing. This was also the first time he called her "Winifred." I also can't take any more Morse/Thursday friction, so he really needs to tell them he found Joan. Although, when they find out what she's been up to, I can't even begin to think how livid they'll be.

As much as I liked and missed Monica, her coming back as Dr. DeBryn's assistant puts her back in danger. The tarot card at the end showed death, and I feel it's going to be between her and Joan. It was surprising that Morse found Joan this soon. I don't know why, but I thought that would happen in the fourth episode, because: cliffhanger.

As for the episodes main plot, it took a few re-watches to completely understand it. Mostly because I kept confusing the killer nurse with the nurse dating the doctor. I guess it was Mr. Bright's turn to be in peril.

15 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Don't know why the flower welding dude bothered to take off the wedding ring, Joan knows he's married but goes along with the charade for his sake.

Is it a May-December romance between Truelove and Bright? Just put that in to make you laugh...

The removal of the wedding ring was more for Morse's (and the audience) sake. Could have been mistaken for a single man without the removal of it being noticed.

Bright is married (don't know why his wife didn't visit him while he was in hospital), but he does seem to be rather smitten with Trewlove. After being so beholden to the strict hierarchy of social standings, he has seemed to have mellowed out, and I think she helps.

[humbleopinion]

If Joan feels guilt about the guy killed in the bank robbery how can she be so heartless and not care about Fred and Win?

Thinking Win's diminished mental state/or suicide attempt or will eventually cause Joan to finally stop being selfish and see/contact her parents or Morse revealing to Fred, Joan's whereabouts.

The scene where they are in the inner doorway of Joan's apt looking at each other crackled with tension.

Joan knows if she and Morse get together that her life will be predictable as the Day Of The Week Sandwiches, a life replicating Fred and Win's.

Morse would LOVE to have a life of Day of the Week sandwiches with Joan.

If you are a fan of the series, a satisfying episode.

[DHDancer]

I'm having trouble streaming these from the ITV Hub -- it's saying this and the next episode are not available.  Anyone else having an issue?

[sugarbaker design]

Red letter clue:  Henry Eckford

[Anothermi]

It's been a while since I've seen this episode. Any idea which Henry Eckford? Sweetpea man, ship man? other?

There's usually a connection with the episode isn't there?  (red letters seems to be only a PBS thing. But fun)

[magdalene]

Whatever sympathy I had for Joan is fast going bye bye.  Her mother is suffering torments while Joan punishes herself doing what - working as a call girl? What is so difficult about calling and reassuring your parents?

They made the head nurse so unsympathetic and suspicious looking that I figured she wasn't the murderer all along.

I was really worried for Bright. I thought his actor might need to leave the show to spend more quality time with Cersei Lannister.

[Enigma X]

4 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Whatever sympathy I had for Joan is fast going bye bye.  Her mother is suffering torments while Joan punishes herself doing what - working as a call girl? What is so difficult about calling and reassuring your parents?

They made the head nurse so unsympathetic and suspicious looking that I figured she wasn't the murderer all along.

I was really worried for Bright. I thought his actor might need to leave the show to spend more quality time with Cersei Lannister.

Oh shit! Qyburn is Mr. Bright! I never put that together.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Enigma X

[magdalene]

Just now, Enigma X said:

Oh shit! Qyburn is Mr. Bright! I never put that together.

I finally recognized that's the same actor playing both characters this season of GOT.  He is very good and very different in both roles.

[Enigma X]

5 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I finally recognized that's the same actor playing both characters this season of GOT.  He is very good and very different in both roles.

Because Qyburn is so creepy, and Mr. Bright is an adorable geezer (imo).

[jjj]

I was so puzzled by the title "Lazaretto," and Googling it did not help at first -- but then I saw that it is an Italian house where people with the plague would be cared for.

It must have been Nurse Death who was putting the patients in Bed 10 and spreading the sweet peas -- how could no one notice?  (P.S. -- sweet peas are a spring flower, and based on the dates of other deaths and letter to Mrs. Z, this is late August.)

Very satisfying episode with the tension -- although I also think the Joan subplot is just not making sense.  Her quarrel was not at all with her parents.  And if I were Thursday, I would have put many resources toward tracking her down in the first week.  Was this the first episode where we heard (from Mrs. Thursday) that Joan asked them not to find her?  When did she ask that?  Again, I'd say, screw that, and send out the troops.  I think she will be reunited, but Morse will suffer from Thursday's great displeasure that Morse had not revealed where Joan was. 

Caroline was Phoebe Nicholls, who was Cordelia in the 1980s adaptation of "Brideshead Revisited."  I had not seen her for many years, but her eyes were so expressing the same emotions as the torn nature of Cordelia.  But yes, she was far more nasty to Morse than was called for.  Some people just hold onto venom for no reason, and it poisons them.  And had we known that Morse was engaged?  It sounds familiar, and was not surprising.   

Henry Eckford was a horticulturist who was famous for cultivating sweet peas:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Eckford_(horticulturist) 

Edited September 4, 2017 by jjj

[Mermaid Under]

Did I miss something big?  Who shot Scottish Tam and his driver and how did that fit in?  Did they get killed by the gang that hired them for screwing up the murder for hire?

[tootsie]

24 minutes ago, Mermaid Under said:

Did I miss something big?  Who shot Scottish Tam and his driver and how did that fit in?  Did they get killed by the gang that hired them for screwing up the murder for hire?

O thank you. That's what I was left with. Who killed those two and stuffed them in the trunk?! Just so Trewlove could find them and once more save the story line and the day? (Ha! But sitting next to Bright - kind of sweet, I admit - while he's being murdered might mess up any young copper's career so now you owe Morse big time!)

[jjj]

1 hour ago, Mermaid Under said:

Did I miss something big?  Who shot Scottish Tam and his driver and how did that fit in?  Did they get killed by the gang that hired them for screwing up the murder for hire?

And WHY were they driven BACK to the clinic?  And the car was there 5-6 days, according to the number of tickets.  This mystifies me. 

[Kemper]

I wasn't watching at the time...but who is Susan?  I gather she was a love of Morse's life and they were engaged.  Why was her mother so upset?  Who died?  Why does she hate Morse? I will try and find the previous season(s) on Netflix or On Demand.

I love the way Endeavor's hair waves...he seems to be kind of swoon-worthy.  And those eyes.  They should probably should have cast a plainer, grouchier version of a young Morse.

[jjj]

18 minutes ago, Kemper said:

I wasn't watching at the time...but who is Susan?  I gather she was a love of Morse's life and they were engaged.  Why was her mother so upset?  Who died?  Why does she hate Morse? I will try and find the previous season(s) on Netflix or On Demand.

I love the way Endeavor's hair waves...he seems to be kind of swoon-worthy.  And those eyes.  They should probably should have cast a plainer, grouchier version of a young Morse.

Morse was engaged to Susan.  She turns up in the regular, original "Inspector Morse" series, in the episode "Dead on Time", played by Joanna David.  It was her father who died.  We don't know why the mother was so nasty.  My theory is that she knows Susan still wants Morse, but Susan is now married to a lawyer/law professor.  Morse works on solving his murder (or suicide; ambiguous) in that  episode.  Looking back (or forward), one could make a good case she would have been much better off marrying Morse.  It is an episode worth tracking down, especially after seeing "Lazaretto". 

Edited September 4, 2017 by jjj

[Diane M]

Why do you think Joan is pregnant?  I didn't notice a baby bump.

[magdalene]

I assumed it was the mob killing those two gangsters for having failed to kill that guy who was going to testify against that mob/gang.  But since the real focus of the episode was the No 10 bed hospital shenanigans they didn't go further into that.

[treeofdreams]

Wasn't Susan's mother the same actor who played Shrimpie's wife in Downton Abbey?

[attica]

Yes, and also Elizabeth Eliot (the mean older sister) in my favorite of all the Persuasions.

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, Kemper said:

Why does she [Susan's mother] hate Morse?

I got the feeling she didn't think our dreamy Endeavor was upper-class enough.  It was the way she sneered when she said,  "I see you're a policeman," and he felt compelled to tell her he was a detective.  I've disliked the actress since she screamed all her lines in "Brideshead Revisited."  She was just a very young girl then, but has played posh parts ever since.  I believe that pans-clanging accent is considered a good thing over there. 

[EyewatchTV211]

I'm guessing the US airing of the show cut something since none of us understand the references to a baby or pregnancy. Seems like kind of a big thing to cut out.

[SusanSunflower]

As I recall, Morse was a scholarship boy ... his family's "means" were quite modest (judging from the episode(s) in which he traveled home for his father's final illness ... he wasn't "posh" at all.  

I'm rather dreading next week's season finale ... Seems Morse leaves a certain amount of devastation in his wake and I'm not sure how Thursday/Morse's professional relationship can/will survive this, however, it does presage Morse's prediliction for not-so-innocent damsels -- Who'd have guessed Joan had a by-any-means-necessary wild side ... but then there was that phone call.  

I was disappointed in the mystery in this episode ... nuf said ... except agree the sweetpeas would have been noted and become big what's wrong with this picture red flag (not really requiring that "old photo" to make the connection since it wasn't much more and possibly less than 10 years ago) nuf. 

I missed mention of pregnancy and/or termination/abortion but how refreshing for it to be so forgettable ... still, for a girl from a traditional conservative family, it might well feel like no-going-back "my own person/my own life" you-don't-own-me milestone (as has been for many young women) 

Edited September 4, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[Endeavour]

1 hour ago, VMepicgrl said:

I'm guessing the US airing of the show cut something since none of us understand the references to a baby or pregnancy. Seems like kind of a big thing to cut out.

...and 

On 1/29/2017 at 5:49 PM, Arwenevenstar said:

A really touching part tonight was the quiz in the pub. 

I missed both of these but it seems like the first was cut. Was the quiz in the pub also cut? 

If next week is the finale, that's much too short. I missed the first ep because the dvr didn't record it. I'll have to rewatch this season. 

I'm enjoying the series. I too am worried about the relationship between Endeavour and Thursday. 

Edited September 4, 2017 by Endeavour

[Endeavour]

Reading that post again, I think you're right, graybrown bird. 

[atlantaloves]

Yes yes yes, the actress who played Caroline, Susan's mother -- Phoebe Nichols --  is in every single British movie or t.v. series ever made, she is so wonderful at being totally nasty. Yes, she was in, let's see, Brideshead, Downton Abbey, Inspector Lewis,  MI-5, Prime Suspect, Dr. Thorne, New Tricks, this gal works all the time. Plus she does movies. I loved this episode, and I want Morse to tell Thursday where his stupid daughter is, I am worried about Mrs. Thursday. 

[spaceghostess]

14 minutes ago, graybrown bird said:

I'm wondering if the references to a baby and a pub quiz are from the finale.  I think they originated in a single post from the UK airing last winter. I hope I'm wrong as I try to avoid spoilers.

That's what I thought, too.

Joan has officially lost any good will she had coming from me (and I did like her up until this season made me realize that she's been gone for months without a word to anyone who cares about her). What she's doing is incredibly self indulgent. You need some "you time", okay. But don't leave your parents wondering if you're alive or dead. It's just an ass thing to do, and Morse was super-weak in how he brought up with her. He should have said something to the effect of "Your parents are shattered. Whatever you're going through isn't their fault; tell them you're alright or I will."

I found this week's mystery somewhat meh, although it was funny to see Mrs. Shrimpy keepin' it elitist and bitchy on yet another show. Has anyone here besides me seen Phoebe Nichols in season 1 of Fortitude? To say the role is a departure from all these period pieces would be quite the understatement.

Edited September 4, 2017 by spaceghostess
specificity

[atlantaloves]

Oh yeah she played a doctor on Fortitude didn't she? I kinda got lost with that series it was just too "out of this world" for me. But Phoebe is always very good. She can play anything.  

[spaceghostess]

Yup, and things went pear-shaped for her in a truly memorable way.

[atlantaloves]

right right right...ewwwwwwwwwwwwww, that was a bloody show....I need to see the last couple of episodes, believe it or not they are still on my DVR......God everything is. 

Was anybody else just praying that Endeavor would just grab Joan and lay a wet one on her, AND THEN the married boyfriend knocks at the door, now that would have been something, but bugger, we just don't get any good kisses with Mr. Morse do we? No romance in this show, but hey, murder is always fun. I just have to note that I adore the names that the author has given his characters, Thursday, Friday, Strange, Bright...and now a new favorite Dr. Moody for Mrs. Thursday's shrink, SO PERFECT. 

[rhys]

The married boyfriend used a key.

[M. Darcy]

Quote

Qyburn is Mr. Bright! I never put that together.

If someone looks familiar, its probably Anton Lesser.  He's in everything!  

Another salute to Colin Dexter.  This picture was hanging up in the hospital 

[SusanSunflower]

Yes, married boyfriend used a key and Joan had a sparkling-new hair-do, wardrobe and apartment furnishings, as far as I could tell ... all very "mod" and unstuffy.  All her talk about "going abroad" indicated she not only had money, she had money sufficient to make getting-a-job and settling down not immediately necessary.  Evans did a very good job of conveying trying to "take it all in" and figure out how any of this gibed with the Joan he was expecting, the Joan he thought he knew (and yearned to kiss) and who, protests otherwise aside, had called him gasping but speechless only days earlier. She, again, might have kissed him; she didn't. 

Hard to know how much time has passed in Endeavor land but I'd guess 4-6 weeks, if that.  Joan is a grown-up, even if still living at home and she left a note asking them to not attempt to find her.  I'm curious about Mrs. Thursday's apparent decompensation -- seems a bit over the top for an otherwise sensible woman dealing with abrupt onset of empty-nest  midlife crisis.  Again, no mention of the son/brother (that I heard) is also curious; see also, no mention that children growing up and leaving home really is what's supposed to happen. Tempting to wonder if Mrs. Thursday perhaps has a history of a prior breakdown (post-partum depression maybe?), which might explain Thursday's stoic passivity (although "British stiff upper lip" covers a lot of bases). 

eta:  "Mistress to a married boyfriend" beats "high-price call girl" any day ....  I didn't recognize said boyfriend -- did anyone? 

Edited September 5, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[jrlr]

15 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

Yes, married boyfriend used a key and Joan had a sparkling-new hair-do, wardrobe and apartment furnishings, as far as I could tell ... all very "mod" and unstuffy.  All her talk about "going abroad" indicated she not only had money, she had money sufficient to make getting-a-job and settling down not immediately necessary.  Evans did a very good job of conveying trying to "take it all in" and figure out how any of this gibed with the Joan he was expecting, the Joan he thought he knew (and yearned to kiss) and who, protests otherwise aside, had called him gasping but speechless only days earlier. She, again, might have kissed him; she didn't. 

Hard to know how much time has passed in Endeavor land but I'd guess 4-6 weeks, if that.  Joan is a grown-up, even if still living at home and she left a note asking them to not attempt to find her.  I'm curious about Mrs. Thursday's apparent decompensation -- seems a bit over the top for an otherwise sensible woman dealing with abrupt onset of empty-nest  midlife crisis.  Again, no mention of the son/brother (that I heard) is also curious; see also, no mention that children growing up and leaving home really is what's supposed to happen. Tempting to wonder if Mrs. Thursday perhaps has a history of a prior breakdown (post-partum depression maybe?), which might explain Thursday's stoic passivity (although "British stiff upper lip" covers a lot of bases). 

eta:  "Mistress to a married boyfriend" beats "high-price call girl" any day ....  I didn't recognize said boyfriend -- did anyone? 

Mrs. Thursday has been married to a copper for over 20 years, so I don't find her reaction at all surprising or over the top.  She might very well be terrified that Joan (whom I find increasingly dislikeable)  has come to the same end as so many of Thursday's cases: kidnapped, raped, murdered and left in a ditch someplace with no i.d.   Can't figure out what Morse even sees in Joan - particularly this version of her - or why he feels like he has to keep her secret when he knows damned well how much her parents are suffering.   At least he could tell them that he has been in touch and she is still alive and well ("well" being subjective here) just to reassure them that she is still alive.

[tootsie]

1 hour ago, M. Darcy said:

If someone looks familiar, its probably Anton Lesser.  He's in everything!  

Another salute to Colin Dexter.  This picture was hanging up in the hospital 

O that's just splendid! Thank you for catching it. Since I watch each episode intently and still miss major plot moves, I would NEVER catch these peripheral teases. Toy with me all you want, show. I won't complain. 

[sinycalone]

I missed the reference to a baby, too.  Although, it would not have surprised me.

There is absolutely no reason why Joan could not have called her parents.  Yes, her father is a policeman....but calling home would not have given him much more info than he already had...especially if she had called from a pay phone distant from her apartment.

I'm still not completely certain I understand the motive(s) behind the killings....could not understand all of the dialogue in the final scenes.

Susan's mother was one cold, nasty woman.

[sugarbaker design]

7 minutes ago, sinycalone said:

I'm still not completely certain I understand the motive(s) behind the killings....could not understand all of the dialogue in the final scenes.

It was one of those insane motives you only hear of in crime fiction.  Character A loses sister via doctor's negligence.  Character A grows up, becomes a nurse and starts killing off said doctor's patients one by one to incriminate him.  Why she didn't just kill the doctor and not ten innocent people flies right over my head.  Character A also killed one of her victim's sister because she caught on.

[SusanSunflower]

The motive was that the young cousin of the (first) girl who died -- due to that physician's neglect, covered up by the head nurse, his lover, in younger days -- wanted "justice" so she murdered a half-dozen innocent patients to throw suspicion on the physician (again covered up by the head nurse, now a vindictive spinster, still pining for the man) ...   Crazy (grief-stricken) person becomes conscienceless serial killer in pursuit of justice ... (see also second season of another popular detective show) and "serial killer" is not suspected for the longest time because .... and the killer's identity is never suspected because the "motivation" is hopelessly preposterous ... "justice" being sought some 10 plus years later ... for closed case of negligence. 

I'm not sure how long it's been standard practice but most hospitals these days have monthly reviews of all patient deaths and poor-outcomes (mortality and morbidity conference) ... and autopsies are sought (sometimes by the coroner) on patients without clear cause-of-death.  Really truly, patients are not supposed to die post-op because they are supposed to be sufficiently screened and risks evaluated to prevent just that (barring a life-threatening emergency situation, gunshot wound, when such pre-surgical clearance cannot be completed). (see also "First do no harm")    "Killer nurses" have been around for ... well, there was that recent masterpiece show ... a very long time ... sometimes "angels of mercy" ... but that doesn't apply to healthy post-op patients found dead. 

eta:  A physician is expected to defer signing a death certificate if the cause of death is not fairly obvious ... in these cases, since insulin was used, there would be no physical findings to indicate cause of death.  In the state where I worked, in fact, all deaths within a certain number of hours/days of surgery were reportable to the coroner (who usually simply talked to the attending, but who could order a desired autopsy against the family's wishes (attending physician can't).  It was simply routine to notify the coroner in the event of a whole list of circumstances, and physicians uncomfortable with assigning a cause of death could refuse, forcing the coroner's hand (they were always overloaded with cases (unattended deaths) and not eager to take on nice simple hospital deaths) 

Edited September 5, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[Enigma X]

I did not care for the motive. It was way too convoluted.

[M. Darcy]

Quote

Thank you for catching it.

I admit - I'm not that good.  It was mentioned on Endeaver's twitter feed. 

Quote

I did not care for the motive. It was way too convoluted.

Its Oxford - the killers overthink their murders.  

[jjj]

They are including an image of Dexter in each episode -- last week ('60s rockers), it was in a newspaper, off to the side of the main headline that was the focus.

Ten weeks have passed since Joan left (Mrs. Thursday said that).  That seems *remarkably* fast for a young woman, who had been living at home, to be set up in a nice apartment with a married man.

14 minutes ago, M. Darcy said:

I admit - I'm not that good.  It was mentioned on Endeaver's twitter feed. 

Its Oxford - the killers overthink their murders.  

 

1 hour ago, tootsie said:

O that's just splendid! Thank you for catching it. Since I watch each episode intently and still miss major plot moves, I would NEVER catch these peripheral teases. Toy with me all you want, show. I won't complain. 

 

2 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

Yes, married boyfriend used a key and Joan had a sparkling-new hair-do, wardrobe and apartment furnishings, as far as I could tell ... all very "mod" and unstuffy.  All her talk about "going abroad" indicated she not only had money, she had money sufficient to make getting-a-job and settling down not immediately necessary.  Evans did a very good job of conveying trying to "take it all in" and figure out how any of this gibed with the Joan he was expecting, the Joan he thought he knew (and yearned to kiss) and who, protests otherwise aside, had called him gasping but speechless only days earlier. She, again, might have kissed him; she didn't. 

Hard to know how much time has passed in Endeavor land but I'd guess 4-6 weeks, if that.  Joan is a grown-up, even if still living at home and she left a note asking them to not attempt to find her.  I'm curious about Mrs. Thursday's apparent decompensation -- seems a bit over the top for an otherwise sensible woman dealing with abrupt onset of empty-nest  midlife crisis.  Again, no mention of the son/brother (that I heard) is also curious; see also, no mention that children growing up and leaving home really is what's supposed to happen. Tempting to wonder if Mrs. Thursday perhaps has a history of a prior breakdown (post-partum depression maybe?), which might explain Thursday's stoic passivity (although "British stiff upper lip" covers a lot of bases). 

eta:  "Mistress to a married boyfriend" beats "high-price call girl" any day ....  I didn't recognize said boyfriend -- did anyone? 

[SusanSunflower]

Quote

 

Ten weeks have passed since Joan left (Mrs. Thursday said that).  That seems *remarkably* fast for a young woman, who had been living at home, to be set up in a nice apartment with a married man.

It's not fast if she left home to "be together" with him ...  Also, immature as it may be, it's possible that Joan (who knows she's okay) has no idea that her mother is beside herself with ... whatever.  It's part of the egotism of many young people, say away at college,  who don't understand why their parents are frantic when they can't reach them instantly and/or when they don't check-in "regularly"  ... Joan has been very very busy shopping and decorating her new apartment .... a whirlwind 

Mrs. Thursday didn't strike me as overly or excessively involved in her children's lives ... although an empty house after years of looking after a family might well be enough to cause a mid-life "existential" crisis regardless of the circumstances ... all that free time weighs heavily.  Some women start to drink ... 

Edited September 5, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[jjj]

No, Joan did not leave to be with Mr. Married Man.  She had a boyfriend at the bank, and his death seems to have pushed her over the edge.  And this is not someone who decided to leave home -- she ran away very suddenly after a very traumatic incident. 

13 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

It's not fast if she left home to "be together" with him ...  Also, immature as it may be, it's possible that Joan (who knows she's okay) has no idea that her mother is beside herself with ... whatever.  It's part of the egotism of many young people, say away at college,  who don't understand why their parents are frantic when they can't reach them instantly and/or when they don't check-in "regularly"  ... Joan has been very very busy shopping and decorating her new apartment .... a whirlwind 

Mrs. Thursday didn't strike me as overly or excessively involved in her children's lives ... although an empty house after years of looking after a family might well be enough to cause a mid-life "existential" crisis regardless of the circumstances ... all that free time weighs heavily.  Some women start to drink ... 

[beadgirl]

Quote

Joan has officially lost any good will she had coming from me (and I did like her up until this season made me realize that she's been gone for months without a word to anyone who cares about her). What she's doing is incredibly self indulgent. You need some "you time", okay. But don't leave your parents wondering if you're alive or dead. It's just an ass thing to do, and Morse was super-weak in how he brought up with her. He should have said something to the effect of "Your parents are shattered. Whatever you're going through isn't their fault; tell them you're alright or I will."

Word.  I was frustrated with Endeavour for being so gentle with her.  And I'm disgusted with Joan -- she's turned into quite the cliche, huh? She runs away, and of course she's too "damaged" to write her parents a note that she's alive, and of course she becomes a kept woman/prostitute (how empowering! way to stick it to the patriarchy/your father!).  It's why I appreciate Truelove's character so much -- a bit of a Mary Sue, but it's so freaking refreshing to see a young woman in a British period piece who is smart, capable, ambitious, and not using her looks or sexuality to get by (I'm looking at you, Grantchester and Breathless).

Thursday's (hah, I almost wrote "Friday's") conversation with Win was touching and heartbreaking.  Love them.

[SusanSunflower]

I will be very surprised if Joan's sugar-daddy was previously unknown to her ... not a pre-existing "romance" but an older man willing to give her some help and "a shoulder" ... perhaps a friend of the boyfriend. 

 

I think part of what Joan ran away from was her parents' (even Morse's) image of more blameless and deserving of sympathy than she felt herself to be.  Being "honest" with them would mean destroying that parental pride.  Morse had been keeping Joan's secrets from her parents ( I think) since the first season when he was shocked to find her hanging out at the mob night club, etc. 

This is the mid 60's ... not the feminist 1970's ... There was little expectation that most girls could do much more than squeak by, sharing a flat with several others, working for a pittance ... think Holly Golightly and the money she received for her visits to the "powder room" (which paid her rent and bought her clothes and shoes, etc., in addition to HER mob acquaintance to passed his "weather report" along with her as messenger). 

Maybe we'll find out next week. 

[statsgirl]

8 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

Mrs. Thursday didn't strike me as overly or excessively involved in her children's lives ... although an empty house after years of looking after a family might well be enough to cause a mid-life "existential" crisis regardless of the circumstances ... all that free time weighs heavily.  Some women start to drink ... 

It's more than an empty house -- her sheltered daughter suddenly left home after a traumatic incident and she hasn't heard from her in ten weeks.  That would cause anxiety issues in any woman much less the wife of a detective who has probably had dozens of murder cases cross his desk.

I wanted Morse to smack Joan upside the head and tell her to call her parents and let them know that she's safe.  Even if she doesn't want to go back home there is no excuse for that kind of selfish behaviour. not to let her parents know she's alive and well.

[orza]

Joan was not abducted nor did she disappear under mysterious or suspicious circumstances. She left her parents a note that she was leaving. She's not responsible for their feelings about her departure. Joan is an adult who has a right to her privacy. If she doesn't want them showing up at her doorstep that is her prerogative. There's no reason to believe that Joan is in any danger because she has not shared her exact location with her parents. After 10 weeks Fred and Win need to get over themselves and accept that Joan is an adult and wants to have her own life, even if it's one they might not approve of. It's fine for them to miss Joan but parents need to be able to let go when the adult children leave home, even if it's under less than ideal circumstances.