S08.E06: A Shocking Revelation

[TurtlePower]

13 hours ago, okerry said:

14 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Anyway, I don't know of many abusive husbands who take responsibility for the problems in the marriage, agree to do what the other spouse wants, defend the other spouse's actions to their child, insist on extensive counseling with a therapist and who defends the other spouse, while encouraging her to do whatever it takes to feel better about herself.  That's what Kody has done, so I don't get the abusive part.  Some people won't let you be nice to them. 

*****Kody has stated before that the emotional state of his wives is not his problem, and he certainly behaves like it's not his problem.

*****Neglect is a form of abuse. Meri wants a normal relationship with her husband but she'll never have one, and if she suffers because of this she's told it's her fault and her problem, not his. He does nothing to provide for her emotional needs. Nothing. In fact, it's worse than nothing because she has to watch him with other women every single day. She should get herself out of there but that's a very tough choice to make. Meri is in a absolute no-win situation.

It looks to me that Meri is being emotionally neglected. As difficult as she may be, no one can survive happily in any marriage without that kind of support let alone a plyg one--even if in her head she tries to convince herself she's in it for the religious aspect. She can try and pretend to be happy but it's clearly not working. That said, if Kody is unwilling to be supportive she's gong to have to make a choice.

Meri expresses that she wants to do this or that, dangles her feet in the water but doesn't take the leap from the diving board. She needs to be able to take that jump and if it doesn't work out, climb back up and try again. She also needs to be okay with being alone and self-reliant, at least for a while--I finished the episode yesterday and she did push way too hard to get into Mariah's bubble. 

I may be biased but Meri should take up an activity like bicycling or running or hiking. These activities allow a lot of time for thought and planning as well as improved health. This woman needs some confidence that she builds on her own and is not showered on her by someone else.

[LucyEth]

Good thing Meri called in an expert like Robyn to help her understand her daughter's feelings and enlightening her to "baby making juice" and "two wombs instead of one" to have children.  Just my opinion, but thought Mariah sort of stuck it to Meri by not breaking this news to Meri and Kody first and then the rest of the family.  One big happy polygamist family or not, Meri feels left out of her daughter's life and it hurts.

[Juliegirlj]

I understand being disappointed when an adult child follows a different path than expected. My husband and I have 4 grown kids and always looked forward to becoming Grandparents. Our daughter ( our only married child)  has been married for almost 6 years and we recently found out that their fertility problems will make having children impossible without IVP, and they aren't sure they will even attempt it. More important than our own disappointment and sadness is respecting their feelings and want of privacy. 

Meri's musings and questions are likely hurtful to Mariah, and although you can't blame her for her feelings she should have kept them to herself. 

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, LucyEth said:

Just my opinion, but thought Mariah sort of stuck it to Meri by not breaking this news to Meri and Kody first and then the rest of the family.

We don't know that she didn't.  Kadoofus is desperate for ratings to keep this claptrap on the air.  TLC could have scripted this entire scenario to produce an episode they could call A Shocking Revelation. Never mind we all knew about it weeks/months ago.  Never mind they could be treating Mariah like a pariah in real life.  Never mind that the reveal could have been totally different and done long ago.  Ratings are all that matter to the grifters and their pimps.

[Granny58]

16 hours ago, SometimesBites said:

Mariah adores her father and was telling Meri straight up that she was being duped. It's no surprise to me that Mariah's now got a huge wall up; I imagine every time she sees Meri come shuffling and shrugging in her direction with that hangdog look on her face, Mariah wants to run like hell, every cell in her body howling, "NO...you will not reabsorb me like a hungry amoeba!!" I think Meri's best bet is to be sure she's fully admitted her failure and apologized to Mariah, and to tell Mariah that, because she understands and respects her, she'll give Mariah whatever time she needs. Basically, "Honey, I love you with all my heart, and you know that I'm right here, always and forever." Then BACK THE FUCK OFF. Mariah loves her mom; if Meri can just let her go, Mariah will come back when her instincts tell her that Meri won't try to psychically consume her again.

This is a good point of view.  I also think, though, that Mariah should say "yes, mom, I love you.  Let's put the catfish behind us and move on.  We don't need to rehash it."  Start at 1 again.  

[Sista Snarky]

I'm sure the fact that (unlike a private family situation)  this all plays out in the media adds extra stress & pressure to the relationship.

Meri has thrown plenty against the wall to see what might stick...brainwashing...blackmail...I didn't know...I did know...yada yada.

Mariah will address it at some point...but she's not there yet. She just stood in front of a room full of parents & bravely told her truth. If she just said ok hugs kisses let's move on...it still doesn't go away for Mariah. 

The truth from Meri would help with some closure...but that's  on Meri. That's what happens when one has expectations to simply move on when they refuse to deal with the truth.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[Nowhere]

Is it possible that Meri has told Mariah the truth but doesn't want to talk about it publicly? The story is that Mariah was there the whole time, warning Meri that it was a catfish. Then pictures and voicemails come out in the media. I bet that at least Meriah and Kody know everything there is to know but if I was in her place, I wouldn't want to talk about everything in front of cameras. It's already embarrassing enough without rehashing it to the world over and over. So, I think Mariah knows everything and she's simply pissed because of the situation in general and not because Meri won't "come clean". 

[Sista Snarky]

1 hour ago, Nowhere said:

Is it possible that Meri has told Mariah the truth but doesn't want to talk about it publicly? The story is that Mariah was there the whole time, warning Meri that it was a catfish. Then pictures and voicemails come out in the media. I bet that at least Meriah and Kody know everything there is to know but if I was in her place, I wouldn't want to talk about everything in front of cameras. It's already embarrassing enough without rehashing it to the world over and over. So, I think Mariah knows everything and she's simply pissed because of the situation in general and not because Meri won't "come clean". 

I personally don't believe that. If the truth was shared I think at the very least a request would be made to  Meri...not to establish other Twitter bonds that could come back to open them up again...by sharing personal matters with a stranger that also has a fixation  (for years) & had a  fantasy online relationship  with  "Fake Sam"

Of course that request could have been made & Meri ignored it like she did when it came to "Fake Sam"

Meri would be best served if she became still & focused on Meri. Forget the Twitter strangers. She should know how hard it is to shake them...based on past returns.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[Nowhere]

40 minutes ago, Sista Snarky said:

I personally don't believe that. If the truth was shared I think at the very least a request would be made to  Meri...not to establish other Twitter bonds that could come back to open them up again...by sharing personal matters with a stranger that also has a fixation  (for years) & had a  fantasy online relationship  with  "Fake Sam"

Of course that request could have been made & Meri ignored it like she did when it came to "Fake Sam"

Meri would be best served if she became still & focused on Meri. Forget the Twitter strangers. She should know how hard it is to shake them...based on past returns.

They may request it but Meri is an adult and will make her own choices. I don't really know anybody who would completely give up on making new friends just because of a bad experience. She probably goes in with much more caution. 

[Sista Snarky]

21 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

They may request it but Meri is an adult and will make her own choices. I don't really know anybody who would completely give up on making new friends just because of a bad experience. She probably goes in with much more caution. 

On the flip  side those close to Meri became part of that story when it came to "Fake Sam"

Mariah would have every right to be protective/cautious herself  moving forward & sometimes that means keeping a distance.

Meri has every right to do whatever Meri chooses to do. The adults around her have every reason to do what they feel is in their own best interest. Sometimes that means retaining peace...protecting your own privacy & letting the other person do whatever they are going to do. Meri is communicating with other players in the Catfish situation. It's  reasonable for Mariah to want to stay far removed from that.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[ghoulina]

17 hours ago, ladle said:

Things that were creepy about this episode:

• Kody asking Mariah specific questions about her "girl crushes" ("Did you have girl crushes?  What kinds of girl crushes?  How many girls?")

Whoa, what??? I must have totally blocked this part out. I don't remember it all. Definitely weird. 

[Natalie68]

18 hours ago, ladle said:

Things that were creepy about this episode:

• Kody asking Mariah specific questions about her "girl crushes" ("Did you have girl crushes?  What kinds of girl crushes?  How many girls?") 
• Robyn's explanation of lesbian fertility and "baby-making juice"
• Mady (who usually doesn't bother me) making that joke about the parents hearing their...noises...through the walls.

This part made me feel really uncomfortable.  It seemed to have an icky undertone which I doubt was the case but it was a bit unsettling to me.  Like you just told a male friend and he was getting unseemly visuals (not that he is interested in his daughter, god no, but that he was a bit excited about girl on girl action).

[Nowhere]

48 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

This part made me feel really uncomfortable.  It seemed to have an icky undertone which I doubt was the case but it was a bit unsettling to me.  Like you just told a male friend and he was getting unseemly visuals (not that he is interested in his daughter, god no, but that he was a bit excited about girl on girl action).

Maybe Kody is interested because he knows he had man-crushes back in the day.

[Natalie68]

1 minute ago, Nowhere said:

Maybe Kody is interested because he knows he had man-crushes back in the day.

Interesting.  Could be.

[maraleia]

One thing I'm glad for WRT Mariah is how cool her siblings are with her being a lesbian and the fact that she can talk about it around her younger siblings without the parents having a problem with it. That says a lot.

Meri needs to get a grip and remember that if you let your kids be for awhile they will come around. Nagging them will only alienate them more. Also, as others have said above there has to be more to the catfishing story than we were shown and I think only Mariah knows the entire truth and that's why she is still pissed.

[CofCinci]

Kody asked Mariah about girl-crushes because he wants to make sure Mariah isn't eyeing the woman he wants for his 5th:  Mindy Jessop. 

Edited January 14, 2017 by CofCinci

[CofCinci]

Kody asked Mariah about girl-crushes because he wands to make sure Mariah isn't eyeing the woman he wants for his 5th:  Mindy Jessop

[b2H]

Mariah has never had a good relationship with her mother.  All the time I have watched this show, Mariah has been nothing less than a spoiled brat child.  Now she is behaving like a spoiled brat adult.  At some point, if Meri cannot be the adult, how hard would it be for Mariah to take on the role of adult (not mother, but adult) and get over herself.

Her mother's husband has long-since abandoned her.  She has no other children to invest anything into.  For better or for worse, Meri hasn't been a terrific mother, but that is still her (Mariah's) mother.  That child had better be mighty glad she isn't my child.  I would not take her disrespect so nicely.  

My mom used to say the best revenge for a mother is to watch her grandkids treat their mother just as badly as she had been treated.  

No matter how bad Mariah believes her mother has been, I am sure her class mates in school could tell and show her some real horror stories.  Meri is no prize, but she certainly isn't deserving of this.

[VedaPierce]

On January 10, 2017 at 4:46 PM, lookeyloo said:

Well, I watched, and FF as necessary.  As a mother of a son who came out, I was more in the camp of Robin and Janelle.  Honestly it didn't take me all that long to "process".  Realizing MMV.  It explained a lot.  My son was so much lighter of mood.  We are not religious, nor are we Christians, so didn't have that to contend with.  Meri seems incapable of even expressing herself let alone understanding anyone else or their feelings, or hers in relation to them. Is it all a part of a game she plays to pretend to be so obtuse?  Or is she really?  I think she is of the "you have to figure out what I mean or am feeling or want" camp.  My late mother was like that.  Looking back we think she had clinical depression, long before Prozac or its cousins.  My late father would say to her "What's wrong" and she would say "If I have to tell you, its no good" - really what she said.  I don't think she really knew.  I wonder if Meri knows either.  Yes, she did go with the catfish, but, it was very skilled in ferreting out responses.  Mariah seems so much happier, content, not even very troubled about her relationship with her mother.  She knows Meri is lying, not taking responsibility  for the catfish thing and she knows her mother wants her to "help" her to say the right things, do the right things.  Meri seems not able to do that.  If I am incoherent it is because I am having an early glass of wine.

Meri is chock-full of dysfunction, one of her favorite things to do is try to demand/steamroll and when it doesn't go her way, collapse in tears and go into victim mode. Case in point- trying to out-power Kody by trying to control whether they sit at the wet bar or the couch. When it didn't go her way, her passive aggression was BEYOND. "I guess we're gonna have to sit where Kody wants, I guess only Kody decides where we should sit..." or words to that effect. Ugh! I HATE that shit! I can only imaging the neurotic dysfunction running loose in that kitchen in lehi with those two passive-aggressive assholes. I'm sure Janelle gave as good as she got too. She's pretty good at her role in this game they all play.

[VedaPierce]

On January 10, 2017 at 6:40 PM, Bitsy said:

I think Mariah is totally right to put distance between herself and her mother.  It needed to happen, and not because of the catfishing.  Meri has been using Mariah for years as a best friend substitute and pouring her limitless angst into her.

Remember when Robyn announced her first pregnancy and Mariah ran out of the room sobbing because of how her mother would feel?  Or that episode when the houses were almost finished and Meri said roughly 500 times that all Mariah wanted was to have Meri's house finished by Christmas?  Bullshit.  Yes, Mariah was the one crying about it, but it was clearly Meri who gave her the idea that her happiness rested on the stupid wet bar being ready in time for a Christmas cookie buffet.

When Meri made Mariah an accomplice in her plan to have an affair and desert the family, I think that was just the last straw.

I thought Mariah absolutely did the right thing during that porch conversation by remaining detached and not letting Meri force her into one of her emotionally manipulative conversations that would have been all about Meri's feelings.  Like Robyn said, Meri should be working through her feelings with other adults, not with Mariah and Mariah seemed to know that.  I think it shows maturity that she is able to stand up for herself to her mother while remaining calm.  She's the mature one in that relationship.

I think Mariah would benefit greatly from a GOOD therapist to really understand her mother and herself and their relationship, so she can understand how to create the healthy boundaries that are obviously lacking. Then she would be able to have a conversation with her mother, stick up for her integrity and not fall for Meri's manipulative tactics, and the hostility on Mariah's end would dissipate. She would get some control over how they relate to each other and be able to steer their conversations into healthier place. 

[KateHearts]

On 1/12/2017 at 8:01 PM, SometimesBites said:

I'm just acknowledging that everything in her life from childhood forward promised her that adhering to plural marriage would make her life better,

I was under the impression that when Meri and Kody were married, plural marriage was not inevitable and that he decided to acquire more wives later down the line.

As for Meri and her catfishing "processing," she ain't never gonna make things right if she doesn't admit to the fact that she FELL for "Sam," to the point that she begged him to love her, she left desperate voicemail messages saying that she loved him, and she had plans in her mind to leave Kody.  The whole, "he was threatening me; he scared me" story is not believable by a long shot- and the Atlanta therapist nods right along with it. And obviously Kody has started repeating the same explanation. I was floored when he asked Meri (with his well-practiced earnest expression), "Is that why you shut me out and wouldn't talk to me? Were you afraid they had bugged the house and were listening?"  Come on, Kodes... she was shutting you out because in her mind, she was halfway out the door.

[ladle]

16 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

On 1/12/2017 at 10:48 PM, ladle said:

Things that were creepy about this episode:

• Kody asking Mariah specific questions about her "girl crushes" ("Did you have girl crushes?  What kinds of girl crushes?  How many girls?") 
• Robyn's explanation of lesbian fertility and "baby-making juice"
• Mady (who usually doesn't bother me) making that joke about the parents hearing their...noises...through the walls.

This part made me feel really uncomfortable.  It seemed to have an icky undertone which I doubt was the case but it was a bit unsettling to me.  Like you just told a male friend and he was getting unseemly visuals (not that he is interested in his daughter, god no, but that he was a bit excited about girl on girl action).

Exactly!  I get that he was probably nervous and didn't know how to react, but what a weirdly specific first question to ask your daughter who's just come out.  I got the creepy fetishizing-male-friend vibe from it, too, though I'm 90% sure that's not actually what Kody was thinking in the moment.

[VedaPierce]

On January 11, 2017 at 9:18 AM, laurakaye said:

Loved your entire post, but I've been especially paying more attention to Meri's body language.  I re-watched the first part of this episode, specifically to watch Meri.

In Meri's talking heads where she's discussing Mariah, she's wearing the same clothes as she was wearing in the couch sessions where everyone was giggling about Tony and Caleb and weddings, etc.  So my guess is that all of that was filmed at the same time.  Now, at that point, everyone knows about Mariah.  Everyone also knows that Meri was having a hard time with it.  Meanwhile, the other wives are practically giddy in their blathering about Tony being great for Mykelti, Mykelti feeling so relaxed around him, Caleb being a few notches below a superhero, etc.  During all of that talk, Meri is sitting very still, hands folded and tucked under her crossed leg, not looking at anyone.  I recognize that posture because I used to use it myself during bouts of post-partum depression...tuck myself in as small as I can and sit stock still in an effort to not be noticed.  It's a "do not engage with me" posture.  And I found myself once again feeling bad for Meri, because while the other wives have every right to talk about their daughter's boyfriends/spouses, doing so in such a silly, giddy manner in front of Meri came across as rubbing her face in it.  Which I'm sure they were doing, subversively or not.  Because they will all have something Meri desperately wants and won't have, and they know it.  I see it as yet another twisted way that one wife can feel superior to another.  These women play a subtle, daily game of seeing who they can carefully step on in order to elevate themselves and get a little more of Kody's attention.  It's survival of the fittest, being played out every single day.  No wonder these women are all such a hot mess...except Robyn, because she is currently the lion, while the other wives are the antelopes.

 

Another great post.  As Mariah herself said, "there's more to the story."  I think the bolded line is the part that we don't know about and probably never will, but more than one veiled reference has been made to the fact that much more went on that we won't get to see on film.

I LOVED your post! They are all TOTALLY playing a life-long game. They score points for themselves when one of them is down, out, sad, and they are addicted to this game and love it because they need the hits they get off of the little life miseries their opponents experience now and again. How happy Meri, Janelle and Christine were during the Tell-nothing when it was revealed that Robyn has been "mouthy" to Kody lately! That the honeymoon is over! And how pissed Kody was! How sad was Christine when the topic of having another baby with Robyn came up, Kody and Robyn were about to discuss their baby plans, and looked happy and glowy, and Christine walked off set. She also walked off set when Kody and Robyn were giggling about Kody picking out Robyn's wedding gown. When someone is happy,giddy, the rest are stormy. When one is suffering, the rest are over the moon-and they try to attribute it to being over the moon over something unrelated (like such joy at Caleb-gimme a break!) but they are really ECSTATIC that Meri is losing the "game". Sick. They deserve this lifestyle.

Edited January 14, 2017 by VedaPierce

[Celia Rubenstein]

Re: Kody's creepy questioning of Mariah, I think what he really wanted to know was if Mariah has actually had sex with a woman yet, but he was afraid to come right out and ask. His questions about the extent of her contact with women she was attracted to were a subtle fishing expedition to get an idea how far she has gone. 

Edited January 14, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[VedaPierce]

On January 11, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Nowhere said:

I think I'll always feel bad for Meri when it comes to Meriah's bad attitude. There comes a time when all of us realize our parents are human beings and make plenty of mistakes. Mariah should grow up and deal with it.

i remember when my ex-husband and I were getting a divorce, I cried and carried on and had so many nervous breakdowns that I thought I had destroyed my kids lives because I was such a terrible example of what a strong woman should be. So much happened around that time including the death of my dad, that I don't even recall everything I said and did. I do know that my daughters were forced to deal with my emotional state. If they held a grudge against me for that time, I would be practically begging for them to talk it out. My own conscience and guilt punished me enough and it still does when I think back. I just can't imagine how much worse it could have gotten if my daughters were terrible, unforgiving brats like Mariah. 

I understand why Meri wants to make things right with Mariah and why she is trying so hard. I don't think I'd necessarily take the approach she is taking but I do understand it. As mothers, we often sacrifice so much for our children, putting them first before ourselves, loving and teaching them, spoon feeding them and wiping their butts for god's sake, and then the child grows up and has the nerve to essentially tell us to fuck off when we make a mistake. I'm not saying their relationship has to be as close as it was but I really think meriah needs to drop it. 

If my kid -or mom- did something colossally stupid, in front of millions of people, was dragged through all the gossip rags, made fun of by strangers all over SM, even if I was warning them that they were making a huge mistake, I would NEVER torture them by withholding my love for this long, especially publicly. My instinct would be to defend and protect no matter what. I would circle the wagons around my family and say-"nothing to see here folks, move along, we're good". Mariah really should stop publicly shaming her. The punishment is now not fitting the crime. What if this led to Meri's suicide? Dramatic I'm sure, but fragile people have been humiliated to that degree...with Mariah one of the people shunning and icing her mom out? She's her MOM. Meri would never behave like this towards any mistake Mariah would have made, and if she did, everyone would call for Meri's head for being so horrible.

Edited January 14, 2017 by VedaPierce

[VedaPierce]

And Meri can't come clean for many reasons, predominantly because she's fucked up. But do we throw a fucked up person away? 

[Kohola3]

Quote

Re: Kody's creepy questioning of Mariah, I think what he really wanted to know was if Mariah has actually had sex with a woman yet, but he was afraid to come right out and ask. His questions about the extent of her contact with women she was attracted to were a subtle fishing expedition to get an idea how far she has gone. 

Which was equally as creepy if not more so.  If my father had ever asked about my sex partners (not that he would, he would have rather eaten glass) I would be horrified.  

[VedaPierce]

16 hours ago, Nowhere said:

Maybe Kody is interested because he knows he had man-crushes back in the day.

I believe that 100%

[Celia Rubenstein]

Mariah learned to be cold and vindictive by watching Meri treat other people that way. This is really just the chickens coming home to roost.  If you train a kid to act a certain way by modeling bad behaviors, you can expect to be on the receiving end of those behaviors one day, plain and simple. That's parenting 101. 

That doesn't make what Mariah is doing right, of course. She needs to stop punishing her mother because it's cruel and destructive.  But appealing to Mariah's non-existent compassion is a waste of time. What needs to happen is for someone to sit her down and let her know that far from being superior to and entitled to judge her mother, she is turning into her mother and will end up just like her if she doesn't develop some self-awareness and empathy.

Meri ended up angry and isolated as a result of her willingness to mistreat others and that is what led to her making poor choices due to desperation and loneliness. Everything Mariah is doing in response to her mother's behavior indicates she is headed down the exact same path - she is allowing her anger and resentment to justify cruelty which will eventually destroy the relationships with the people she should be closest to. If Mariah doesn't want to end up alone and isolated and as desperate as her mother became, she needs to change her whole approach to resolving conflicts because that is exactly where she is headed. 

[VedaPierce]

2 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Mariah learned to be cold and vindictive by watching Meri treat other people that way. This is really just the chickens coming home to roost.  If you train a kid to act a certain way by modeling bad behaviors, you can expect to be on the receiving end of those behaviors one day, plain and simple. That's parenting 101. 

That doesn't make what Mariah is doing right, of course. She needs to stop punishing her mother because it's cruel and destructive.  But appealing to Mariah's non-existent compassion is a waste of time. What needs to happen is for someone to sit her down and let her know that far from being superior to and entitled to judge her mother, she is turning into her mother and will end up just like her if she doesn't develop some self-awareness and empathy.

Meri ended up angry and isolated as a result of her willingness to mistreat others and that is what led to her making poor choices due to desperation and loneliness. Everything Mariah is doing in response to her mother's behavior indicates she is headed down the exact same path - she is allowing her anger and resentment to justify cruelty which will eventually destroy the relationships with the people she should be closest to. If Mariah doesn't want to end up alone and isolated and as desperate as her mother became, she needs to change her whole approach to resolving conflicts because that is exactly where she is headed. 

Love. And yup

[Celia Rubenstein]

...

41 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Which was equally as creepy if not more so.  If my father had ever asked about my sex partners (not that he would, he would have rather eaten glass) I would be horrified.  

Kody tweeted several times about how he had to confirm with Mariah that she was positive she was actually gay.  I think he was having a hard time believing it - maybe he didn't want it to be true? or for some reason he just didn't really believe it - and I think he wanted to know if Mariah had actually done the deed and really, definitely knew she was gay.

Kody is paying a lot of lip service to being okay with it all, but I'm not sure deep down he's as okay with it as he wants to appear. And that's,where this big need to confirm it is coming from.  I wonder if part of it is that of all the kids to be gay, it had to turn out to be Meri's only child. She seems least equipped to handle it and her relationship with Mariah is so strained, he may secretly be hoping it's not really true. Kody is not big on dilling with problems as we all know, and I could see him crossing his fingers that this whole gay thing is just a big misunderstanding, lol

Edited January 14, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[TurtlePower]

45 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Mariah learned to be cold and vindictive by watching Meri treat other people that way. This is really just the chickens coming home to roost.  If you train a kid to act a certain way by modeling bad behaviors, you can expect to be on the receiving end of those behaviors one day, plain and simple. That's parenting 101. 

That doesn't make what Mariah is doing right, of course. She needs to stop punishing her mother because it's cruel and destructive.  But appealing to Mariah's non-existent compassion is a waste of time. What needs to happen is for someone to sit her down and let her know that far from being superior to and entitled to judge her mother, she is turning into her mother and will end up just like her if she doesn't develop some self-awareness and empathy.

Meri ended up angry and isolated as a result of her willingness to mistreat others and that is what led to her making poor choices due to desperation and loneliness. Everything Mariah is doing in response to her mother's behavior indicates she is headed down the exact same path - she is allowing her anger and resentment to justify cruelty which will eventually destroy the relationships with the people she should be closest to. If Mariah doesn't want to end up alone and isolated and as desperate as her mother became, she needs to change her whole approach to resolving conflicts because that is exactly where she is headed. 

"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering......."--Yoda

Sorry. Had to throw that in there ;)

[booboopbedoo]

So painful to watch- Meri is too needy. Have these conversations off camera.

[CofCinci]

12 minutes ago, booboopbedoo said:

So painful to watch- Meri is too needy. Have these conversations off camera.

Then how do the $2,000,000 worth of mortgages (they can't afford) get paid?

[DeusExMaraschino]

5 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Re: Kody's creepy questioning of Mariah, I think what he really wanted to know was if Mariah has actually had sex with a woman yet, but he was afraid to come right out and ask. His questions about the extent of her contact with women she was attracted to were a subtle fishing expedition to get an idea how far she has gone. 

I thought it was maybe to get an idea of how long this had been going on.  There are some religious folks who think you can "catch" being gay by just surrounding yourself with friends and yielding to peer pressure.  (?!?!)  I assumed Kody was trying to see if this was truly something that she had been struggling with since childhood or if she was just caught up in a college phase of women's lib and exploring her sexuality.

[Celia Rubenstein]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

Then how do the $2,000,000 worth of mortgages (they can't afford) get paid?

But ... but .... what about LulaRoe, STRIVE with Janelle, and My Sister Wive's Closet?  Surely they are making a lot of money from all those entrepreneurial interests?  Right?  Right? 

[ginger90]

Mariah acts the way she does toward Meri for many reasons. One, to me is, she knows Meri will be there for her no matter what she does. She comes off as being on Kody's side because, to me, she's not as certain about him being there for her. Just a theory.

[okerry]

5 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

I think Mariah would benefit greatly from a GOOD therapist to really understand her mother and herself and their relationship, so she can understand how to create the healthy boundaries that are obviously lacking. 

You said the magic word: Boundaries. If there's one thing that all dysfunctional families have in common, it's screwed-up boundaries. The Browns have got some of the worst boundaries ever, and it's all by design.

Normally, there are boundaries around a marriage. The partners don't spend excessive amounts of time with, and/or have sex with, people outside the marriage. (Sure, plenty of people do it, but it's grounds for divorce and not generally accepted.)

But with the Browns, those boundaries have been shot to hell - at least, for the women. They're expected to have no boundaries at all about their husband having sex with other women - at least, with those he's "married" - and he's free to look for others to "marry" too, if he feels like it.

With the primary relationship boundary being completely effed up, it doesn't surprise me that others would be, too - as in using a child as a source of emotional closeness instead of turning to a spouse/partner. 

Boundaries, ppl. They take the funk out of "dysfunktional."

[CofCinci]

20 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

But ... but .... what about LulaRoe, STRIVE with Janelle, and My Sister Wive's Closet?  Surely they are making a lot of money from all those entrepreneurial interests?  Right?  Right? 

Gotta love how Christine doesn't even bother with this entrepreneurial bullshit. 

[Sista Snarky]

9 minutes ago, okerry said:

You said the magic word: Boundaries. If there's one thing that all dysfunctional families have in common, it's screwed-up boundaries. The Browns have got some of the worst boundaries ever, and it's all by design.

Normally, there are boundaries around a marriage. The partners don't spend excessive amounts of time with, and/or have sex with, people outside the marriage. (Sure, plenty of people do it, but it's grounds for divorce and not generally accepted.)

But with the Browns, those boundaries have been shot to hell - at least, for the women. They're expected to have no boundaries at all about their husband having sex with other women - at least, with those he's "married" - and he's free to look for others to "marry" too, if he feels like it.

With the primary relationship boundary being completely effed up, it doesn't surprise me that others would be, too - as in using a child as a source of emotional closeness instead of turning to a spouse/partner. 

Boundaries, ppl. They take the funk out of "dysfunktional."

Like when all of the wives mention kids sleeping in the bed with Mom (at ridiculous ages) ...on nights when  Kody is elsewhere...because the Moms don't  not want to be alone on those nights.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Sista Snarky

[Guest]

5 hours ago, VedaPierce said:

If my kid -or mom- did something colossally stupid, in front of millions of people, was dragged through all the gossip rags, made fun of by strangers all over SM, even if I was warning them that they were making a huge mistake, I would NEVER torture them by withholding my love for this long, especially publicly. My instinct would be to defend and protect no matter what. I would circle the wagons around my family and say-"nothing to see here folks, move along, we're good". Mariah really should stop publicly shaming her. The punishment is now not fitting the crime. What if this led to Meri's suicide? Dramatic I'm sure, but fragile people have been humiliated to that degree...with Mariah one of the people shunning and icing her mom out? She's her MOM. Meri would never behave like this towards any mistake Mariah would have made, and if she did, everyone would call for Meri's head for being so horrible.

This may be the most loving and cognitive post I've seen on this topic.

Every family should have someone like this in it.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Swim mom
Added the second line.

[okerry]

5 hours ago, KateHearts said:

I was under the impression that when Meri and Kody were married, plural marriage was not inevitable and that he decided to acquire more wives later down the line.

My take was, Meri knew that more "wives" were a vague possibility - but she hoped she would be enough for Kody and he wouldn't need or want more women.

That's okay, Meri. A lot of us fall into that trap, polygamous or not lol.

[okerry]

22 minutes ago, Sista Snarky said:

Like when all of the wives mention kids sleeping in the bed with Mom (at ridiculous ages) ...on nights when  Kody is elsewhere...because the Moms don't  not want to be alone on those nights.

whoa, did not know about that! I rest my case!

[Granny58]

52 minutes ago, okerry said:

They take the funk out of "dysfunktional."

LOL.  that's great!!

[Evanscody]

23 hours ago, Swim mom said:

This may be the most loving and cognitive post I've seen on this topic.

Every family should have someone like this in it.

I agree. Mariah needs to get over it. But you know she won't because...TLC

[Granny58]

Happened to see the Big Announcement again tonight (rerun).  You know what?  Kody made it all about himself.  

[iii]

Robyn flaunting to Meri that Mariah had talked to her about it, and was really happy, that little sneaky fake-humble happy nod she gave while Meri asked, "she told you that?!", full knowing Meri is desperate for that same closeness with Mariah. Lol, what a woman.. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by iii

[BlackWidow]

On 1/8/2017 at 10:25 AM, CofCinci said:

I'm sure the family called Jackie Overton all sorts of slurs used to for lesbians.  That had to be hard on Mariah. 

Possible, but Mariah should probably get whatever words were used, the accent was probably on the other words, i.e. crazy, obsessed, manipulative etc.  Any insult word that was said was only piling on those. I doubt these people hate gay people but lots of people have said some not-so-nice thing like 'this woman I work with what a mean old whatever, or fat , (insert adjective)' and it doesn't mean they hate all people because they used a crappy word. .Let's hope Mariah can distinguish a person whose overarching descriptor isn't that she's gay but that she is mentally disturbed, and the remaining 99% of gay people who aren't like that and not have to feel some alliance or sympathy with JO only because of that one factor. That would be weird.

On 1/8/2017 at 5:44 PM, whydoievencare said:

If someone talks about "processing" whatever or says the word "process" one more time I'm going to scream!!! Therapy speak much?

Meri seems to have a 'one Mississippi two Mississippi moment before she processes anything, this is usually most notable on the couch sessions but she tends to always have this pause where she figures out if she can 'dill', from what order the cars drive in on road trips to those awful little signs with sayings in her house, to  the way she talks , kind of like a 3rd grade teacher. "no Kody, you're still NOOOOOTTTTT understandeeeeen.."  Point being, I don't think it is just the kid coming out thing, it's just her. With a bunch of things. So the daughter being gay now creates a need to defrag the whole mental hard drive of 'what I thought life was gunna be' , which will take months.  I would hate to be like that, yet I can see how dilling with kody and wife 2, 3, 4 and a million kids might make one a little control-hungry when one wasn't constitutionally born to enjoy constant chaos yet lives in it.

On 1/8/2017 at 5:52 PM, whydoievencare said:

Too bad Meri didn't accept Robyn's advice to get her thoughts in order before speaking to Mariah.  Her verbal fumbling was pathetic.

 Yes, inarticulate as someone else on the thread was saying, that and see above reply, she seems sort of shell-shocked to me. Not mentally ill, but somewhat traumatized. It's a vicious circle because if she had a great support network and relationship, she would be much better by now probably, but then, if she had that, the catfish thing might never have happened, right? Point being, she doesn't have a great support network, and I bet this has been since forever, not oh well things went downhill when X happened. No, they went further downhill but the snowball was already rolling. That said, as annoying and slow-talking and plodding and OCD as she can be, I don't solely blame her.

On 1/8/2017 at 5:57 PM, CofCinci said:

Yeah, she looks so pissy during the conversation.  No one is forcing you to appear on a camera during the free vacation.

Mariah and her new backwards-hat gangsta surly gay girl look kind of made me laugh although I'm glad she had the courage to come out to this crew But seriously, in the spirit of tolerance and acceptance, get over the catfish thing, it's played out, tv or real life. Sure there's that 'but I have all these other moms'. Mariah, don't be so quick to ditch a mom who loves you and wants to support you, even if she's not perfect. Think about people who don't have perfect moms, Ok that is fine but then how about those moms don't really even love, support, or even care much about their kids, the kids having done nothing to be blown off- at least you don't have that problem.  Don't blow off your mom, learn to accept each other 'as is' even though you have 'other moms' and all these siblings. As you get older, you find the world can be colder and not this happy little safe space where all these people care about you even if you are an ok person. No it's not fair but sometimes that is how it is. Sure you have all these other people but it's just not worth it to stay mad at mom , she's going to be who she is and you might as well love her for it, especially if she loves you. Her getting used to the new you might take her some time. Maybe it isn't new to you, but it is to her. Just because someone is older doesn't mean there isn't any more learning or 'firsts' to cope with.

       Try to lessen expectations of the 'roles' you expected each to play- Mariah expecting Meri to never falter in the face of the life she is living, signing up for it or not, it has to be lonely and hard- mothers are human and flawed too, and Meri, stop with the 'what about kids, what about marriage?' still pushing your template of what you must do to be happy onto her. You are not merged, you are not siamese twins, you are individual separate people. Get to know each other as unmerged, separate, adult women. Still mother daughter but respecting boundaries of where one personality starts and leaves off and the other begins. You have one thing in common, you are both finding out who you are and what you want (and don't want in life). So even if you annoy each other, cut each other some slack.

On 1/8/2017 at 5:59 PM, Chicklet said:

This.Is.Painful.

I was worried someone might just be injured by an exploding head during that lovely mother-daughter talk. Meri is about the most inarticulate human ever.

You beat me to it. Nailed it. See responses above, 'fill' free to agree or disagree on the 'detells'..

On 1/8/2017 at 9:15 PM, tabloidlover said:

If I had a dollar for every time Meri said  "I want"  or  "I fill"  or  "I thought"...  She truly cannot think about any situation from any perspective other than how it affects HER.   I was yelling at the tv  "IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU, MERI!!"  Good Lord she is exhausting. 

Someone please get her a makeup artist as well.  It is very unpleasant to watch her.

Probably some of the "I this, I that' is from therapy , they encourage everythingt o be what is called "I statements' rather than "you always do this or that", it is trying to make it so you are stating your own perceptions in this non-blaming, PC type way. The whole pausing to process and see if everything fits through her judgement lens would be annoying in real life, but people seem to come down on her extra hard here and it does seem odd for a tv audience rather than say, whatever faction of wife one is supporting or has some personal skin in the game. 

 

The funniest comment that read like that was about #4 being the new matriarch. Keep dreaming. Although at this point, it ain't much of a prize if it were true. What's she going to do, she has the youngest kids and then there's that lame julllree shop , but hey, if you want to put a positive spin on it, I guess you could call it 'matriarch'' but that is a position earned, not because others crapped out.

Edited January 18, 2017 by BlackWidow
clarification

[Rhondinella]

I'm behind so I'm just now catching up and had to come here to say:

Kody actually demonstrated some good parenting!?  And ROBYN IS THE VOICE OF REASON AND INSIGHT!?  This is no fun.

I blame Trump.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Rhondinella

[Alapaki]

I finally got around to watching this episode.  I must say, after so many episodes with so much filler where very little new actually happens, this episode almost felt like it had too much going on.  Certainly too much to comment on in a single post.

For now, I'll just observe that Mariah apparently came right out of the closet and went directly into Wayne's World: