S04.E16: Crossings

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Bjorn's fleet sails onward and launches a surprise attack; back in Kattegat, Lagertha continues in her quest for power.

 

[slf]

I thought the way Lagertha realized Ragnar was dead was well done but by the time it got to Ivar I was rolling my eyes it was so heavy-handed.

[The Kings Foot]

1. The last 5 mins were excellent.

2. The Moorish scenes were a bit awkwardly shot. They've  clearly pulled back from showing us the mass rape  that occured behind the camera. Quite a tone down from the Pilot.

3. So what's Floki's  story arc now ? He eventually converts to Islam ?

4.Also Ivar has apparantly fallen to the dark side and become a Sith Lord

5. I wonder if it was Ubbe that Lagertha actually saw in her room.

Edited January 5, 2017 by The Kings Foot

[TaurusRose]

I am left feeling really dumb by this episode.  I couldn't figure out where Bjorn and company had landed, I also wondered about the lack of visual violence usually shown during a Viking invasion.  I didn't know what was going on with Floki and Helga (are they both losing their minds?), and Lagertha's attitude towards Ragnar is somewhat baffling.  I mean, they've been separated for such a long time and I can understand a certain amount of grief, but the longing?  I don't get that.  Then there are the Aslaug sons.  With the exception of Ivar, Ubbe and Sigwhatever are just not impressing me.  I'm glad they shed some light on the figure (Odin?) last seen in a boat.  I liked the last 5 minutes of the episode a lot.

Edited January 5, 2017 by taurusrose

[gwhh]

I think they have jumped the shark here.  

Making Loki Polticaly Correct.  It made me sick! 

The old Loki would have killed all those heathens and enjoyed doing it. And would not have thought twice about it.  Before, during, or after  

 

May be an error of history here. What year is this set in?   What year did Muslim first come to Spain??   

Edited January 5, 2017 by gwhh

[Babalooie]

After reading the comments last week stating how much Ubbe looks like Ragnar, It could have been Ubbe  in the room.  Perhaps it was a dream.  Floki is confused for sure.  He doesn't know what he was seeing.  Also, whatever happened to the "Floki as the Next Seer" storyline?  Was anyone else surprised that the raiders didn't react to seeing the Moorish people with darker skin and beards?

UPDATE:  After pausing the frame and standing very close to the large screen TV, I have determined that it is Ragnar, not Ubbe.  He must have filmed that scene while he was still on set.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Babalooie
updated

[peridot]

11 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

1. The last 5 mins were excellent.

2. The Moorish scenes were a bit awkwardly shot. They've  clearly pulled back from showing us the mass rape  that occured behind the camera. Quite a tone down from the Pilot.

My thoughts exactly about the harem they found.  They really showed the Vikings to be the bad guys this time.  The people in the temple who didn't stop praying (even through a beheading) was a powerful image.

I thought the Odin figure and Ivar sitting at his father's horde was very sad. The slave girl is a moron, she's more gullible than Sigurd and Ubbe.

[slf]

At the end of the last episode there was a shot of Ivar looking directly into the camera with a ridiculous amount of blood pouring out of his hand which I thought was just so so stupid. And the stupid continued into this episode with the bad cry-acting and anguished, and cliched, yelling. The actor playing Ivar does much better with the smaller humorous moments. The more dramatic stuff isn't working for me.

Like, Helga girl, I love you but the girl is running from you because you are a part of the group that just slaughtered her people and murdered her mother right in front of her. She maybe doesn't want you taking her from her homeland and people? Just...think about it.

Quote

I think they have jumped the shark here.  

Making Loki Polticaly Correct.  It made me sick! 

The old Loki would have killed all those heathens and enjoyed doing it. And would not have thought twice about it.

Less jumping the shark and more an evolution of Loki's character; one that, in my opinion, makes a great deal of sense given Loki's resentment of Ragnar's friendship with a Christian and Rollo's decision to convert. Loki is beginning to realize that other people aren't heathens just because they have different gods. 

Edited January 6, 2017 by slf

[Scaeva]

4 minutes ago, gwhh said:

I think they have jumped the shark here.  Making Loki Polticaly Correct.  It made me sick!  The old Loki would have killed all those heathens and not thought twice about it. 

 

May be an error of history here. What year is this set in?   What year did Muslim first come to Spain??   

Spain was Islamic during the period the series is set, or at least a large swath of it was. The Islamic conquest was in the 8th Century CE and the series is currently set in the early 9th century.

[The Kings Foot]

9 minutes ago, gwhh said:

 

 

May be an error of history here. What year is this set in?   What year did Muslim first come to Spain??   

Nah that part is accurate. Muslims came to Spain in 711.  The Vikings attacked the Moors in 844, 859 and 860.  id wager they're combining pieces of all those raids into one big campaign for the show

[benteen]

Good episode.  Now that Ragnar is dead, the show seems interested in showing just how bad the Vikings are when they go out on a raid.

The lack of Ragner is definitely felt although his presence remains strong.

This show does the discovery of new countries very, very well and it's always exciting to see a new location.

The Ivar/Lagertha confrontation was great.

Edited January 5, 2017 by benteen

[Straycat80]

I'm still not understanding why Lagertha has not killed Aslaug's three sons. They've threatened to kill her twice now. She killed Aslaug because she thought she would be a threat. Aslaug didn't threaten her. And she now knows Ragnar is dead so she doesn't have to fear his wrath. 

The attack scenes on the Moors were toned down. I don't buy that Floki was fascinated by the praying men. He's Viking and I doubt he'd be changing his way of thinking about religion and the gods this late in his life. 

There's going to be a love story between Bjorn and the harem girl. They were both eyeballing each other. They even showed it in slow motion. 

The last five minutes were the best. 

[The Kings Foot]

2 minutes ago, ihartcoffee said:

I got the sense Floki was fascinated by their dedication to prayer,  and the lack of fancy objects or Gods where they were chanting.  I liked it,  I don't mind seeing him evolve some.  He looked like he took acid when they got off the boat and was tripping the whole time.    

I agree with the bolded. I do have some issues with the directorial choices. To me that scene should have been slower with the camera at eye level just behind Floki so we get a better sense of him looking and wondering what's going on . maybe even have him raise his axe and then be confused why the Imam doesnt try to run away or fight.

[magdalene]

It felt out of character for Floki to show such awe and respect for Islam. When he has only ever shown scorn for the Christian faith. 

[slf]

1 minute ago, magdalene said:

It felt out of character for Floki to show such awe and respect for Islam. When he has only ever shown scorn for the Christian faith. 

When people are drawn to a new religion it's generally because it speaks to them in a way no other faith does.

[green]

13 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

I'm still not understanding why Lagertha has not killed Aslaug's three sons.  ...

The last five minutes were the best. 

Because they are also Ragnar's sons.  Aslaug didn't carry Lothbrok blood in her.  Her sons do and are thus an extension of him.  She could no more kill them then she could Ragnar.

And yes the last 5 minutes were the best.  Maybe Ragnar no longer believed in Odin but Odin sure believed in Ragnar.

Floki didn't feel the "passionate praying" by the elderly bishop he turned into a pin cushion with his arrow shooting torture but he feels this?  And Aethelstan would get a good laugh out of that too.  He was peacefully praying too when Floki killed him and offered no resistance nor tried to flee either.  But Aethelstan would also be proud that Floki was changing.

But the changes in both Floki and Helga seem way too sudden and with no build-up.  Their whole story line took a sudden awkward turn for no apparent reason and the writing of same in that little scene in the boat about both of them feeling new "needs" but different ones all of a sudden made no sense.  It was pretty shoe-horned in out of the blue.

Edited January 5, 2017 by green

[The Kings Foot]

Now that I think about it. I wouldnt have had Floki do the protection thing yet. Just have him not take part  in the massacre  and be disgusted by the bloodshed and then disgusted with himself for being disgusted. 

[FlowerofCarnage]

Bjorn looking at that one particular  captive from the harem...you know what that means.

I had to laugh when Ivar said that Lagertha  killed his mother  in cold blood to serve her own ambition...yeah, that is how done, kid. If it wasn't Lagertha, Harald and Halfdan would eventually be gunning for Kattegat.

Lagertha knowing she will die at the hands of one of Ragnar's sons just lessens the blow of when it does happen. 

[ShannaB]

5 minutes ago, slf said:

When people are drawn to a new religion it's generally because it speaks to them in a way no other faith does.

I agree.  Floki did say that he feels empty and without purpose and he did appear to be fascinated with the chanting.  I wouldn't mind seeing him turn to something else at this point in his life.

[magdalene]

Aethelwulf was smarter than Ecbert in this episode by not under-estimating Ivar.

[thuganomics85]

First post-Ragnar's death episode was bit shaky at times, but I'm intrigued to where this and all of the characters are going.

I did think the scenes of Ivar screaming where over-the-top.  I think he and Alex Hogh fare better when he's more subtle, but menacing.  I did love his confrontation with Lagertha.  Granted, if she actually accepted, I'm sure she would have beat his ass without even trying, but I can still buy that he will somehow be a threat to her in the future.  I wouldn't be surprised if The Seer's claim that a "son of Ragnar" will kill ends up being less obvious.  Hell, the biggest twist would be if Bjorn ends up inadvertently being responsible for her death.  Now, that would be some irony right there.

Bjorn's first raid is a success, although it did feel like they cut away from the brutality this time, compared to past ones.  Floki taking an interest in the Muslim religion was unexpected.  Rollo didn't do much outside of killing some dudes, so I wonder what will be instore for him later on.  Harald and Halfan seem to be plotting overthrowing the Lothbroks, which should be fun for everyone!

Back in Wessex, Aethelwulf figures out that they need to protect themselves, and Ecbert agrees, but pretty much just dumps all the responsibility on him, and rather just keep spending time with Alfred.  Not sure what is going on with him.  Does he truly think there will be no retaliation or simply doesn't care anymore.

Astrid swearing she will protect Lagertha from Ragnar's sons earned a huge laugh, since her only big fighting scene so far, ended with Lagertha herself having to save her.  Yeah, I would put a lot of stock on Astrid having my back.

The final five minutes were the best part.  I can not wait to see the Wraith of the Lothbrok Boys!

[peridot]

16 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Aethelwulf was smarter than Ecbert in this episode by not under-estimating Ivar.

I agree, I guess old age makes Ecbert soft.  It looks like Ecbert is setting his son up to be killed by invading Vikings, while he's grooming Alfred to be his replacement.

[magdalene]

4 minutes ago, peridot said:

I agree, I guess old age makes Ecbert soft.  It looks like Ecbert is setting his son up to be killed by invading Vikings, while he's grooming Alfred to be his replacement.

Poor show Aethelwulf sure doesn't get the respect the real life version did.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Aethelwulf

[gwhh]

54 minutes ago, magdalene said:

It felt out of character for Floki to show such awe and respect for Islam. When he has only ever shown scorn for the Christian faith. 

 

100% correct!!  He the last Viking you would expect to act like that. 

[slf]

1 hour ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

I had to laugh when Ivar said that Lagertha  killed his mother  in cold blood to serve her own ambition...yeah, that is how done, kid.

I laughed too. Like, you're Vikings, dude; you kill people in cold blood all the time. This idea that Lagertha needed some super moral reason for killing Aslaug or it had to be in combat or whatever...just, no. That's not how they work. We've spent seasons watching them kill kids, old people, friends, and kind people who never did them any harm. They're raiders, rapists, and murderers. Ivar was going to kill a girl because of sexual inadequacy, ffs.

And Lagertha was right, Kattegat wasn't being ruled well at all. After the ep where Lagertha took Kattegat I commented that it was striking how the people defending their homeland from her invading army immediately erupted into warm welcomes once she called an end to the fighting. I was struck again this episode by their heartfelt cheers when she walked into the throne room. They are genuinely happy to have her back and don't seem to miss Aslaug at all; she really did nothing to endear herself to her people.

I hope whatever Hirst has planned gives Lagertha another chance to shine before she dies.

[LittleIggy]

Please don't let Lagertha be killed until she is a very old lady! I don't think I could take KW leaving the show so soon after TF.

So are we going to have Abdul Loki? ;-)

I liked the thing with the crows but thought the visits by Odin were a bit much.

When Aethelwulf asked his dad what he was going to do, I wanted Ecbert to say,"Oh, I'll just keep on f*cking your wife."

Edited January 5, 2017 by LittleIggy

[green]

1 hour ago, The Kings Foot said:

Now that I think about it. I wouldnt have had Floki do the protection thing yet. Just have him not take part  in the massacre  and be disgusted by the bloodshed and then disgusted with himself for being disgusted. 

That would have been brilliant.  Wish the scene had gone down that way.  Makes far more sense.

[LOA-maker]

i guess any ep post-Ragnar would be a downer. but then this wasn't shit but not great either.

The Floki thing was weird, as was the mosque issue. So people prayng in a mosque will let strengers come in and kill their imam?

And Floki hates Christianity. How come now he loves Islam? He should realise that they come from the same root hahaha

King Harald and Halfdan sure had their "way" with the harem as they usually do, but then the scene with Odin made no sense. Ivar, Sigurd and Ubbe knew that Ragnar had died. Bjorn and Hvitserk didn't though. So why would an all-seeing god with one eye come and tell them what they already knew?

[BitterApple]

Floki finds Allah? And Helga wants to adopt random Muslim orphan? Sorry, not buying it. Two episodes back Floki was ready to murk traitorous Rollo for abandoning the Viking people and way of life, and now he's all super protective of a random bunch of strangers? Does not compute.

I agree it was likely Ubbe that Lagertha saw in her room. He looks exactly like a young Ragnar, especially in profile. 

And cagey old Ecbert never disappoints! "Sorry son. I made a shit deal with Ragnar, which will come back to bite us in the ass, but can you go ahead and raise an army while I work on spelling lessons with Alfred? Kay, thanks". You gotta love it.

Edited January 5, 2017 by BitterApple

[gwhh]

2 hours ago, The Kings Foot said:

Now that I think about it. I wouldnt have had Floki do the protection thing yet. Just have him not take part  in the massacre  and be disgusted by the bloodshed and then disgusted with himself for being disgusted. 

You should write for this show.  That how good this idea is. 

[LOA-maker]

On 1/4/2017 at 9:47 PM, FlowerofCarnage said:

Bjorn looking at that one particular  captive from the harem...you know what that means.

I had to laugh when Ivar said that Lagertha  killed his mother  in cold blood to serve her own ambition...yeah, that is how done, kid. If it wasn't Lagertha, Harald and Halfdan would eventually be gunning for Kattegat.

Lagertha knowing she will die at the hands of one of Ragnar's sons just lessens the blow of when it does happen. 

Because it's his mother. the reason why is moot. Revenge is what part of Norse society to them is. Ivar will avenge Ragnar. Erlender wanted to avenge King Horik. Or you don't get rudimentary familial ties?haha

[Nmissi]

I'm fanwanking that Floki just remembered the last time they slaughtered a bunch of people at prayer during a raid, he got stuck with a decade of Aethelstan. Dude is just trying to avoid history repeating itself.

[HunterHunted]

27 minutes ago, slf said:

I laughed too. Like, you're Vikings, dude; you kill people in cold blood all the time. This idea that Lagertha needed some super moral reason for killing Aslaug or it had to be in combat or whatever...just, no. That's not how they work. We've spent seasons watching them kill kids, old people, friends, and kind people who never did them any harm. They're raiders, rapists, and murderers. Ivar was going to kill a girl because of sexual inadequacy, ffs.

And Lagertha was right, Kattegat wasn't being ruled well at all. After the ep where Lagertha took Kattegat I commented that it was striking how the people defending their homeland from her invading army immediately erupted into warm welcomes once she called an end to the fighting. I was struck again this episode by their heartfelt cheers when she walked into the throne room. They are genuinely happy to have her back and don't seem to miss Aslaug at all; she really did nothing to endear herself to her people.

I hope whatever Hirst has planned gives Lagertha another chance to shine before she dies.

I just rewatched the episodes when Jarl Borg took Kattegat and Aslaug and the boys were on the run. All Aslaug did was complain that the barn was dirty and disgusting. Siggy had to yell at Aslaug to stop being a pampered spoiled asshole. Ragnar hated ruling. He abandoned his people and went on a multi year sabbatical. Aslaug has been a pampered protected princess from her birth. She doesn't know the ins and outs of actual rule. I'm sure that Siggy and Rollo gave her lots of useful advice, but they'very both been gone for a while. I wish Lagertha had managed to make any of these arguments when she attacked Kattegat. Kattegat is no better protected than when Jarl Borg captured it. The town was bigger, but not better protected. Was Aslaug still allowing people to come to her to get justice? Was she making sure that her sons learned about these things? 

I don't feel like the thing with Floki is shark jumping. Floki and Helga are unfulfilled. Floki has never had ambition to be wealthy and powerful. He wanted to build amazing boats, go raiding, be faithful, and be a good husband and father. He's built amazing boats. He's gone raiding. He's been faithful. But now he finds himself with a dead child, a dead friend in Ragnar, and a lost friend in Rollo. All of the people who he started raiding with a dead and gone. Though he's not inclined to believe other faiths, I think he's unfulfilled and curious. This is the first time he's seen a religion with no representation of their god.

[LennieBriscoe]

This episode's theme seems to have been "Epiphanies."

First we see Helga and her awakened maternal need in the midst of brutal violence.

Then Floki was shown being entranced by the call of the muezzin, following it as to the Pied Piper. Why he acted to save the men at prayer, beyond his curiosity and fascination, of course remains to be seen. 

Lastly, I have to believe the scene of Bjorn's seeing the captured girl and being "hit by the thunderbolt" is a deliberate homage to the famous scene of Michael's seeing Apollonia  in "The Godfather," as in reality, Islamic Sicily was conquered in 860 by Bjorn Ironside:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sicily

As usual, a major motif was the Viking treatment of females, this time with the tryptich of "The Other," from Rape and Enslavement to Adoption to (Strongly Implied) Romantic Love.

[FlowerofCarnage]

6 hours ago, LOA-maker said:

Because it's his mother. the reason why is moot. Revenge is what part of Norse society to them is. Ivar will avenge Ragnar. Erlender wanted to avenge King Horik. Or you don't get rudimentary familial ties?haha

I get them very well, thank you! You said Ivar didn't need a reason, we'll he gave one publicly. I am not disputing him wanting to get revenge, I am laughing at him trying to publicly shame Lagertha for doing something that is practiced and rewarded in their culture.

[Evagirl]

I am truly vested in this series.  In my mind, the first 4 seasons are titled "Vikings-The Saga of Ragnar Lothbrok".  And seasons 5 on are titled "Vikings-The Saga of the Sons of Ragnar Lothbrok".  Having said this, IMO, it wouldn't bother me if Hirst got rid of all remnants of the Ragnar saga, beginning with Floki, Helga, Legathea, Rollo, and the weird wannabe-king brothers.

Start fresh with new material about the sons and let Ragnar and his merry band rest in peace.  This over-lapping stuff isn't working for me.  I know it's the HISTORY channel, but we also know that in series like this, they play fast and loose with the actual history of events.  They don't have a lot of hard facts to work with and we know this.  I view this show as strictly entertainment.  If it were on any other channel beside the History channel, folks wouldn't be trying to compare history in with what's going on in the series.  I'm sure I'm stand alone in this opinion, so don't beat me up too bad.

[benteen]

Quote

And Lagertha was right, Kattegat wasn't being ruled well at all.

Kattegat has become a thriving market town since Ragnar left eight years ago.  Even Lagertha said as much.  I'd say it was being ruled pretty well.

Edited January 5, 2017 by benteen

[ghoulina]

Alex Hogh Anderson continues to be mesmerizing. They really picked the perfect person to play Ivar. For an actor to be able to completely let themselves go like Ivar did while mourning his losses in the mountains - that is no easy feat. It was touching and uncomfortable and very real. I really liked his scenes and the final few minutes where all the brothers realized that their father was gone. Very well done. 

Man, it must suck to be Astrid and have to watch your lover pine for her ex-husband, whom she she will always love more than you. Oh well, maybe she can get a new haircut to get over it. One that's even more sassy and modern. 

I was glad to see Lagertha immediately getting down to business and trying to fortify Kattegat. They're going to need it when Harald and Halfdan get their sign form the gods. Even more impressed that the Queen herself was out there toiling away with her people. That's a leader, not a boss. 

I'm with those who aren't buying Floki's sudden fascination with Islam. He has continually been the one who is MOST entrenched in their faith. If they want to go this route with him, it requires a lot more build up. I don't feel like we've been given a strong impression that Floki has been struggling with his faith or anything. But maybe I missed something. 

Helga taking that terrified girl back to Kattegat would be a horrible, horrible idea, IMO. 

I don't like Aethelwulf (still feels weird to say, that's my oldest's middle name!), but Judith was a real bitch, waving her affair with his father in his face at the breakfast table. 

 

22 hours ago, LOA-maker said:

but then the scene with Odin made no sense. Ivar, Sigurd and Ubbe knew that Ragnar had died. Bjorn and Hvitserk didn't though. So why would an all-seeing god with one eye come and tell them what they already knew?

Did anyone officially know, though? Ivar knew what Ragnar was planning when he left England. But anything could have happened after he was gone. AElla could have decided to keep him prisoner and torture him for years. I think Odin's visits were supposed to be official confirmation of what the brothers in Kattegat assumed to be true. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by ghoulina

[PatsyandEddie]

IA ghoulina . They didn't know for sure. Ivar told them he could be dead but no doubt, they would hold out hope for him. Personally, I loved the crows and sudden appearance of Odin to announce Ragnar's death. Rollo and Ragnar believed themselves to be descendants of Odin's so it seems fitting that Odin would make the announcement himself. 

I don't think that it was Ubbe in Lagertha's bedroom. I think it was Ragnar visiting her in the chamber they shared together. ( Maybe it's just the romantic in me.) She would have shield maidens guarding her at night who would be prepared for any attack,especially after Ivar's threat. 

I love to see Lagertha working along side her people to build fortifications. Kattegat may have become a thriving marketplace but it was completely open to attack. Ragnar was able to walk back in unchallenged and Lagertha was able to attack freely. She has seen the palisades herself in England and France so wishes to protect her people and her throne. Aslaug did nothing of the kind which , in my mind, was not ruling competently. 

[Primetimer]

And other questions sparked by 'Crossings'!

View the full article

[FlowerofCarnage]

So is Floki going through the Viking version of a midlife crisis?

I hope Bjorn and harem girl isn't Ragnar and Yidu part 2.

[nodorothyparker]

The ending minutes of this episode were the best of everything I love about this show.  Otherworldly and larger than life.  Since they'll be the most famous of the sons, I think it's telling that Bjorn heard Ragnar's prophecy while the Odin figure appeared to all of the sons but only spoke directly to Ivar, who as of now is the only one who knows exactly how Ragnar died.

Yes, Ivar and the boys back in Kattaget knew it was very likely Ragnar had died and wasn't ever coming back, but as Lagertha points out in the beginning of the episode Ivar didn't see him die.  He was still alive as far as Ivar knew when he was bundled onto the ship home.  They all know Ragnar has pulled off some pretty impressive feints before, so this could still be one more.  I think they all needed that confirmation to move to the next step of assembling their great army.

The staging of Ivar's confrontation with Lagertha was terrific, from the parting of the crowd to his long drag on knifepoints.  Lagertha probably is telling the truth that she doesn't want to kill any of Ragnar's sons and that she would kill Ivar in single combat, but she was as guilty as nearly everyone else we've seen of underestimating him there.  He announced in front of the entire court that he wants to kill her and she just watched him use his strength to drag himself up there by his knives, but she still was standing right there within striking distance with her hands on his shoulders.   Alex Hogh Anderson is mesmerizing in this role to the point that I don't even mind a few primal scream theatrics.

I too felt like the violence of Bjorn's attack was oddly muted and cut short, which is curious in light of the show's seeming choice to acknowledge with the harem scene that a lot of the Viking warriors were raping their way through the known world.  I hate to quasi defend Floki because I still don't like the character, but his being suddenly transfixed by the call of the muezzin and the devoutness of the faithful didn't really strike me as that terribly out of character or jumping the shark.  He was clearly having his own Tostig moment in the boat in the beginning where he was feeling empty and disenchanted with his life and the entire raid, with the unspoken part of that being that with the exception of Rollo who he mostly despises everyone he started out our story with now is dead and gone.  I think had any of the Muslims run or shown any fear as the Christians did in the early raids, he would have understood it and gone about his merry way slashing and bashing with the rest.   It was that they had no gods or riches on display and were so focused that they seemingly didn't even see him walking among him that threw him.    He has no way of knowing that Islam at this point is still pretty new as far as religions go and that a lot of its followers are every bit as bloodily zealous about their faith as he has been about his.  While I would have had no trouble with him walking away from the mosque after this, I'll agree that his refusing to let the rest of the Vikings do their thing did feel out of character.

I did get a small kick out of the Vikings being temporarily befuddled with all the mirrors, but Helga chasing the orphan girl around and wanting to keep her felt like the show simply has no idea left what to do with the character.  I can't quite decide if Ecbert is going dotty from his whole playing dress up in Athelstan's robes for a day at the execution or what, apparently taking Ragnar at his word that the sons will only be coming for Aelle, but when Aethelwulf, the man who's been publicly cuckolded by everybody, is making more sense than you you might want to look into it.   Aethelwulf at least gets points for realizing what a bad idea it was sending Ivar home.

Edited January 5, 2017 by nodorothyparker

[Babalooie]

This may be way off the mark, but my first thought with the Floki scene was that it mirrors today's situation with the Western world's conflict with tolerance of Islam.  Contrary to the feelings of some on here, I have always loved Floki and Gustaf Skarsgard's portrayal of him.  I would just like to see him sail off to a certain island and be happy.  Maybe a spinoff.

'

[ghoulina]

40 minutes ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

I hope Bjorn and harem girl isn't Ragnar and Yidu part 2.

From your lips to Odin's ears. 

[Ohwell]

When Lagertha was talking to Ivar and Torvi and Astrid were standing on either side of her, I was confused about Astrid's hairstyle.  Her hair looked longer and it was braided.  That was Astrid, wasn't it?  Then, later on in bed with Lagertha, her hair looked like it usually does.  I was confused.

I feel bad for Torvi because the beautiful harem girl is going to be Bjorn's next lover.  I just hope she doesn't turn out to be Yidu, like others have said.

[nodorothyparker]

Doesn't she have a long braid in the back with all the shorter Pat Benatar mess?  I try not to look or think about it too hard.

It sucks to be you when you're lying in the royal bed with your girlfriend and all she wants to talk about is how she used to share this bed with her dead husband.

[Ohwell]

45 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Doesn't she have a long braid in the back with all the shorter Pat Benatar mess?  I try not to look or think about it too hard.

You might be right about the braid.  Honestly, I never noticed.  Shows you how uninteresting she is to me. 

[green]

4 hours ago, Evagirl said:

I am truly vested in this series.  In my mind, the first 4 seasons are titled "Vikings-The Saga of Ragnar Lothbrok".  And seasons 5 on are titled "Vikings-The Saga of the Sons of Ragnar Lothbrok".  Having said this, IMO, it wouldn't bother me if Hirst got rid of all remnants of the Ragnar saga, beginning with Floki, Helga, Legathea, Rollo, and the weird wannabe-king brothers.

Start fresh with new material about the sons and let Ragnar and his merry band rest in peace.  This over-lapping stuff isn't working for me.  I know it's the HISTORY channel, but we also know that in series like this, they play fast and loose with the actual history of events.  They don't have a lot of hard facts to work with and we know this.  I view this show as strictly entertainment.  If it were on any other channel beside the History channel, folks wouldn't be trying to compare history in with what's going on in the series.  I'm sure I'm stand alone in this opinion, so don't beat me up too bad.

I have to disagree.  It is an historical drama and Hirst said all along he was trying to stick with as much of the real history as he could.  That he was trying to tell the story of the real Vikings; not the Whatevers fictional people you make up.   It doesn't have the same power if it is just made up crap.  But knowing there were real people named Lagertha, Bjorn, Alfred, Ivar etc and what they actually did gives this show far greater power than some fictional fluff. 

These people and/or their victims etc are often times our very own ancestors.  Babalooie here said she found out she is directly related to Ragnar through both Ivar's and Sigurd's lines.  Myself I have no idea about my direct ancestors but I do know I have both English and Irish blood as well as Swedish.  It is like watching my family fighting and killing each other each week for me.  You don't think that is more a wow thing than some fictional characters doing fictional stuff that we would all forget within a decade of the show going off air?  Besides there is plenty of fictional stuff on TV.  Almost all of it.  Far far FAR too few stuff that incorporates real history with good drama to capture the essence of the human race.

It is the genius of this series of how there is a brilliant balance on the most part struck between real history and appeasing the gods of good drama.

As for not having the "hard facts"  We do with the sons of Ragnar.  We have left the mythic age of Ragnar and are now into the real nuts and bolts of chronicled history.

Hirst said his original intent was to tell the history of the Vikings and the Viking Age and as we know from Western Civ 101 it started for historians in the late 790's with the raid on that exact abbey where our fictional "everyman" Aethelstan was at.  He takes us into Viking society becoming our tour guide.  Ragnar originally was suppose to be a mere prelude to his sons who were to be the main focus of the show.  But Fimmel's acting and other factors made it impossible to write Ragnar out by Episode 10 of Season 1 and the narrative, thank goodness, slowed down and we can get into more detail and layers than the original intent of a quick trip through the centuries.

And they are not presenting history because they are on the History Channel which has nothing to do with history unless it turns out ancient aliens did everything in history.  They are on the History Channel because Hirst sold the execs there the series.  If he could have sold it or gotten a better deal from A&E or NatGeo or CBS or the Country Western Channel it would be on one of those networks instead.

3 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

 I can't quite decide if Ecbert is going dotty from his whole playing dress up in Athelstan's robes for a day at the execution or what, apparently taking Ragnar at his word that the sons will only be coming for Aelle, but when Aethelwulf, the man who's been publicly cuckolded by everybody, is making more sense than you you might want to look into it.   Aethelwulf at least gets points for realizing what a bad idea it was sending Ivar home.

I think Ecbert felt he needed to bear witness to Ragnar's death.  Also Ecbert is shown to be about the same age and he knows his end time will come sooner than later.  He wants to see how a real man can die.  He wants to prepare himself in a way.  He wore Aethelstan's robes so he could attend without being spotted and to carry part of Aethelstan to Ragnar in a way as a comfort to him.  Well I'd like to think the second part anyway, heh. 

I think he hopes the Vikings won't attack Wessex but I think he really knows in his heart the Vikings will ultimately come into Wessex though be slowed down by Northumbria enough to kill off a number of them as well as get Aelle killed giving him an opening for that kingdom.  Send Aethelwulf off to fight and he may get knocked off so Alfred gets to be king earlier than later.  I do agree he underestimated Ivar though.  But then every last one of them have so far.   Aethelwulf didn't have that great an insight as much that he hates all Vikings and believes they have a collective mind that says "kill all Saxons".  Which right now isn't far from the truth.

It was interesting in that episode with his and Ragnar's long talks that he mentioned that the Viking colony he massacred was "too early" in their peoples history but maybe by the time of his grandson Alfred that might actually work.  So I think Hirst at least has him foreshadowing history for us thereby knowing the Vikings will keep coming and he wants to buy time until the Vikings will truly want to become peaceful farmers more than bloody raiders.

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Doesn't she have a long braid in the back with all the shorter Pat Benatar mess?  I try not to look or think about it too hard.

Yes you are right.  She always has had that long braid.

Edited January 5, 2017 by green

[LOA-maker]

5 hours ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

I get them very well, thank you! You said Ivar didn't need a reason, we'll he gave one publicly. I am not disputing him wanting to get revenge, I am laughing at him trying to publicly shame Lagertha for doing something that is practiced and rewarded in their culture.

it is rewarded but then what he did was no different to all the other revent killing we've seen. Lagertha knew that his sons would seek revenge on her, and Ivar did nthing wrong. 

[LittleIggy]

I don't wait Bjorn to cheat on Torvi. BTW, what were they going to do with all those captured women (besides the obvious)? I know they would become slaves, but would the Vikings actually drag them along on their multi-year raiding voyage?