S03.E10: Pigeons, Parrots, And Storks

[Tara Ariano]

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Liza and Josh have a near miss, but react very differently, which puts their relationship in doubt.

[Armchair Critic]

Kelsey with the do rag? Just no. Is Sutton Foster really thin because next to her Hillary Duff looks pudgy.

[Snarklepuss]

I liked this episode.  I like Diana with her new therapist boyfriend and the parrot made for some good comedy.  I like how the boyfriend calls her on her shit and thus helps her achieve self awareness.  Nice touch.

I also liked Kelsey with her new writer beau but why do I think that other publishing company woman might try to steal him away?  There's something precarious about that relationship.

It looks like the show is still on this path about making Josh look not that perfect for Liza anymore and it's (of course) all about the age difference.  I've been saying they're doing this to make Charles look like the better choice down the road.

Wow, only one 1hr. episode left for the season - Ugh, just when I started enjoying myself as usual.

[hiccup]

The only thing that really bugged me about this episode was the Audubon Society giving a parrot to Diana, without even asking her.  Very irresponsible and it made me feel bad for the bird.  

What I loved about this episode was that it was another one without Lauren…haha.  She annoys me and it's been nice not seeing her in the last few episodes.  

[hankthetank]

I'm still waiting for when Kelsey (Hillary Duff) will find out about Liza's age. 

[MortysCleaningLady]

Who picks up a hair tie from the bathroom floor and just starts using it?   I live by myself and am crazy clean, but once a tie has been on the floor for longer than a couple of minutes, I toss it.   That said, while if I was Maggie, I would be washing my hair while Josh was picking up that test.  Yuck!!!

 

And what Hiccup said -- you never give a person a pet as a gift unless you are 2000% sure they want one.  

[Hanahope]

I really thought the outfit Kelsey was wearing, do rag, etc., was a bit over the line for someone who's supposed to be a professional.  It was bad enough some 'assistant' was wearing a two-piece midriff baring outfit last episode, but at least she was just an assistant, not an editor like Kelsey is.

How much did Kelsey actually "write/edit" on the book if the other editor could tell the difference?  I thought it was fine that Kelsey was helping the guy out to show him what the editing meant and to help him through it.  Especially since apparently they were on some super tight deadline.  If the actual editor was so concerned about deadlines, and knew this was a first-time author, she should have been the one to sit him down and go through everything and she should have known that when she gave him the edits.  Don't blame Kelsey because you didn't do your job.

Now I'm sortof curious how the ring-thing (Nuvu ring, i think?) works.  I understand diaphragm and IUD, is it sortof like an IUD?

And as a woman who did have a child in her 40s, its really has its problems, especially as I'm moving into the 50s.  I would really not recommend it, though at least Josh seems to really work well with kids, and that helps a lot, so it could work.  But I can totally understand Liza's reluctance, given that she gave up her career for a kid the last time and fears seeing it happen all over again.

[dubbel zout]

8 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

I like Diana with her new therapist boyfriend

I wish I could like this, but I can't shake the feeling it's being played for laughs and/or the other shoe will drop next week in the season finale, and we'll find out something really awful/dumb/creepy about the guy. Diana's love life shouldn't be played for laughs like this.

5 hours ago, hiccup said:

The only thing that really bugged me about this episode was the Audubon Society giving a parrot to Diana, without even asking her.

Parrots can live a very long time, so it's not like the responsibility to take care of it will end in five years. You'd think the author of P Is for Pigeon, who ostensibly knows Diana, wouldn't have arranged such a gift. I wouldn't give Diana a goldfish. (No slight on Diana; just that she's not a pet person in general, no matter the animal.)

I liked the exchange between Diana and Charles's daughter: "You know that's not a real parrot [on your shoulder], right?" "Yes, I do." Hee. Something about MS's read of that line cracked me up.

[Adultosaurus]

I was looking for something bad to happen when Diana's new bf asked for her key - they even gave him a sketch moment before they cut away from the scene.

Hillary Duff's stylist should be re-assigned.

Josh is fantastic eye-candy but the storyline has surpassed ridiculous.

[txhorns79]

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Is Sutton Foster really thin because next to her Hillary Duff looks pudgy.

I think it is two things: 1) They dress Hillary Duff in a lot of non-flattering outfits that make her appear heavier than she is and 2) Foster is tall and skinny in a way that makes a woman of more average height appear shorter and more squat when standing next to her. 

[rallymantis]

11 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

I like Diana with her new therapist boyfriend and the parrot made for some good comedy.  I like how the boyfriend calls her on her shit and thus helps her achieve self awareness.  Nice touch.

Yeah, I'm cautiously optimistic.  Plus: therapists have ish too.  A line from a book I love (when the main character's Dr admits to arguing with his wife): "I think when you overhear your therapist shrieking over who ate the last banana, it's over."

And agreed on the Eeeeyeeeeuuuwwww! factor with Maggie and the hair tie-that-wasn't.  That's too far for that joke.

[Megan]

With all these pregnancy anvils I'm starting to think Liza is going to hook up with Charles while they're both drunk or when she Josh get in a fight (We were on a break! thing) and get knocked up. She might even spend a season trying to figure out who the father is.

Or is that way too obvious/tv sitcom cliche. Or am I last person to think this?

[Britty]

6 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Now I'm sortof curious how the ring-thing (Nuvu ring, i think?) works.  I understand diaphragm and IUD, is it sortof like an IUD?

 

An IUD is inserted into the uterus and stays there (barring complications) for 3-12 years depending on what kind.  The Nuvaring goes in the vagina and gets thrown out/replaced each month:  3 weeks in, remove, 1 week out, put in new one.   

 

3 hours ago, Megan said:

With all these pregnancy anvils I'm starting to think Liza is going to hook up with Charles while they're both drunk or when she Josh get in a fight (We were on a break! thing) and get knocked up. She might even spend a season trying to figure out who the father is.

Or is that way too obvious/tv sitcom cliche. Or am I last person to think this?

Paternity test results are inconclusive, and BAM!  New show called My Two Dads.  Oh, I can see the wacky hi jinks now. 

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, Megan said:

With all these pregnancy anvils I'm starting to think Liza is going to hook up with Charles while they're both drunk or when she Josh get in a fight (We were on a break! thing) and get knocked up. She might even spend a season trying to figure out who the father is.

Ugh, I really hope this doesn't happen for so many reasons. 

[Texasmom1970]

I found the most unbelievable thing about this episode was the hair tie/really birth control. We always see Debi's character so well put together and goes all out in her dressing, costumes and all. There is no way I believe she would pick up something off the floor and put it in her hair!

[Adultosaurus]

2 hours ago, Texasmom1970 said:

I found the most unbelievable thing about this episode was the hair tie/really birth control. We always see Debi's character so well put together and goes all out in her dressing, costumes and all. There is no way I believe she would pick up something off the floor and put it in her hair!

Well, she was going to work out, so it's possible - but eww.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm on the ewwww train too. Sorry, but hair ties are like $2 for a bunch of them. Once a hair tie hits the floor, it goes in the trash because hello, I have like twenty more! When Liza asked what was in Maggie's hair, I thought she was going to point out a grey hair and then they would talk about getting older and having to color their hair or something. I don't have a NuvaRing (but I have used menstrual cups) so I am trying to imagine something just falling out of my vagina without noticing (mostly because a menstrual cup would never just fall out).

Everyone, including adults of every age, are allowed to change their minds about anything, including having kids. It's okay if Josh said he was okay with not having kids before BUT just because he has recently decided he might want one does not mean he should be pressuring Liza or trying to change her mind. She made it very clear that she does not want to have another kid and he should respect her decision, not try to tell her how awesome they would be as parents. Don't try to convince her to do it because you decided that you want to do it. That's a dick move.

I hated that the pigeon book lady gave Diana a parrot. Short of a goldfish, you should NEVER give someone an animal/pet unless you know that they want it and are committed to taking care of it until it dies. I thought maybe the author would say that she had named the parrot in honor of Diana and it was going to a sanctuary or a zoo or something. It never crossed my mind that she would give her a bird, especially one that will live a REALLY long time.

ITA that Kelsey's outfit was really unprofessional. It was the combination of the bandana and the overalls that killed it for me (and was she wearing a tank top underneath?). I could buy her wearing one of those items to work and no one blinking an eye, but wearing both? Especially in an office where Charles wears a suit and tie every single day!

Part of me thinks it's sweet that Kelsey is being so supportive of her new boyfriend's book deal, despite the fact that her employer and her imprint lost out big time (part of me thinks she's dumb to let him be so selfish because without her, he wouldn't have this $1.2 million Random House deal). But she crossed the line when she ran out of a work party (which Charles basically told everyone to attend) to go nurse his wounded writer's ego. Part of being a professional writer is getting notes and then making changes. Editing is part of the writing process. If you can't deal with that, then go self publish your novel so that no one will tell you to change one precious word. If your ego is so fragile that you totally spiral because your editor gave you notes, then this might not be the right career for you. What is going to happen when he reads negative reviews on amazon? Is he going to jump off a bridge because he's so distraught?

Getting back to Kelsey, he was being a shitty boyfriend by flaking on her work event at the last minute because he was freaking out. She was being a crappy employee by leaving the party to go talk him down. She was also being an enabler when she said she would help him with his edits. Value yourself and don't give your work away for free! Pippa was a bitch to tell Kelsey to stop helping her boyfriend. I totally get the personal/professional divide and I think that Kelsey should let him flounder on his own with the edits because HE CHOSE THE OTHER PUBLISHING COMPANY which means he has to work with Random House and Pippa, not Kelsey and Millennial/Empirical. He shouldn't get to sign a million dollar book deal with a competing publisher and then get Kelsey to basically edit his book for free. I agree that as the editor, it's Pippa's responsibility to talk to this guy about the edits and help him through the process, especially since it's his first time. We've seen Kelsey/Empirical have to do some hand holding with other authors because that's part of the job. Pippa should be the one dealing with this guy's freak out, not Kelsey.

Diana's new boyfriend is totally sketchy. I don't care how nice he's being or how good his cooking is. I bet the fact that she's running for the condo board will come back to bite her in the ass. When she finally figures out he's bad news and tries to throw him out, he will threaten to report her to the condo board. I've never had to deal with a condo board so I'm not sure what the repercussions could be. Obviously she wouldn't be able to run for condo board anymore, but could they kick her out of the building too?

Please don't let Liza or her daughter get pregnant. And for the love of not being totally cliche, DO NOT have them both get pregnant at the same time.

Hee, I love that Charles refused to play into Diana's "haha, I am dating a doctor so don't be jealous" game.

[Ailianna]

I don't think Josh is being a "dick" by trying to change Liza's mind about having kids.  He isn't being underhanded, and he supported her during her freakout about the pregnancy test and was really good about that.  But then it got him thinking in a concrete way, not an abstract one, about having a child, and all he is asking right now is for her to think about it.  He isn't going nuts, or demanding a child; he's asking for their to be a dialogue and for her to consider it.  Actually pretty reasonable.

[Snarklepuss]

21 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I wish I could like this, but I can't shake the feeling it's being played for laughs and/or the other shoe will drop next week in the season finale, and we'll find out something really awful/dumb/creepy about the guy. Diana's love life shouldn't be played for laughs like this.

I hear you.  I'm trying to be optimistic.  Diana has had enough laughs played on her.  It would be seriously awful to end the season on that note.  Maybe the creepy will be that he asks her to marry him!  She'll probably get put in a spot but I hope it's not a total deal breaker for her.

14 hours ago, Texasmom1970 said:

I found the most unbelievable thing about this episode was the hair tie/really birth control. We always see Debi's character so well put together and goes all out in her dressing, costumes and all. There is no way I believe she would pick up something off the floor and put it in her hair!

ITA.  I once used the Nuva Ring - There's no way you could use it as a hair tie even if you wanted to.  It just doesn't stretch like that.

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ITA that Kelsey's outfit was really unprofessional. It was the combination of the bandana and the overalls that killed it for me (and was she wearing a tank top underneath?). I could buy her wearing one of those items to work and no one blinking an eye, but wearing both? Especially in an office where Charles wears a suit and tie every single day!

Kelsey's outfit was Patricia Field going even more into unreality.  She was already getting there with "Sex and the City", here even moreso.

[luna1122]

I'd be one to pick up something off the floor and use it without thinking--I'm a mess--so that part didn't gross me out.  but the notion of Maggie wearing something that's been all up in Liza's hoo-ha for a month did.

19 hours ago, rallymantis said:

"I think when you overhear your therapist shrieking over who ate the last banana, it's over."

That sounds so familiar, but I can't place it. What book?

I think Josh has every right to decide he might want kids. Liza obviously has every right to not want anymore. That's your classic impasse/deal breaker there. I really, really hope this show doesn't decide to saddle us with an actual pregnancy story.

I generally can buy the conceit of this show with regard to Liza's fake age, but it's growing harder and harder for me to believe that someone--like Diana's new beau, or whoever--wouldn't say/think 'no way is that chick 26.' For everyone she meets to believe that is really stretching the boundaries of credulity for me.

[Negritude]

22 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I wish I could like this, but I can't shake the feeling it's being played for laughs and/or the other shoe will drop next week in the season finale, and we'll find out something really awful/dumb/creepy about the guy. Diana's love life shouldn't be played for laughs like this.

So much this. I feel like Diana is portrayed as the anti Liza, the woman who pursued a career, has achieved success, but never got the husband and kids. The high powered career woman who's unlucky in love. So lame. Hell even Miranda Priestly of The Devil Wears Prada was married with kids...even Anna Wintour IRL is married and a mother. Like, knock it off show. There's nothing wrong with being single and childless, I am, but this whole parody just seems very 80s to me like I'm watching Baby Boom or something. 

[MoreCoffeePlease]

They had unprotected sex for 1 week ... would a pregnancy test even work that early?  I know they can be used earlier than in years past, but come on.

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I can't shake the feeling it's being played for laughs and/or the other shoe will drop next week in the season finale, and we'll find out something really awful/dumb/creepy about the guy.

I agree, which is too bad for Diana.  I love her so much.

Hillary Duff is an example of women coming in all shapes and sizes, which is great to see.

[Snarklepuss]

9 minutes ago, MoreCoffeePlease said:

Hillary Duff is an example of women coming in all shapes and sizes, which is great to see.

ITA, but I feel compelled to say that shorter women are NOT "chunky" or "pudgy" or whatever just because they aren't built with long bones like tall women are.  Shorter women carry their weight differently and not proportionate to a taller woman.  I'm 5'2" and have been hearing people online call shorter women heavy for years now when they might actually weigh no more than 125 lbs.  I find it annoying because it's an unfair comparison.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[luna1122]

I'm ready to jump off my roof if Hillary Duff is now considered fat, pudgy or chunky.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Negritude said:

Hell even Miranda Priestly of The Devil Wears Prada was married with kids

But she gets punished by having her husband leave her. It's fine if his work takes him away from the family, but hers? She's a terrible mother. The double standard is still alive and thriving, alas.

1 hour ago, Negritude said:

There's nothing wrong with being single and childless

Exactly. Why does Diana have to be written as so desperate for a man? It's not funny.

[Atlanta]

7 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

ITA, but I feel compelled to say that shorter women are NOT "chunky" or "pudgy" or whatever just because they aren't built with long bones like tall women are.  Shorter women carry their weight differently and not proportionate to a taller woman.  I'm 5'2" and have been hearing people online call shorter women heavy for years now when they might actually weigh no more than 125 lbs.  I find it annoying because it's an unfair comparison.

Ditto. Us short girls are not automatically heavy. I think whoever is dressing Duff for this show needs to be fired. That person may not know how to dress a petite woman. A bikini picture just surfaced and she's mega hot. She's got a hot body.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Atlanta

[Maharincess]

I'm confused, why shouldn't Diana's love life be played for laughs on a comedy show? It's technically a sitcom so why shouldn't something be played for laughs on a sitcom? 

If I had a hair tie fall on the floor of a public bathroom I would throw it out but if something falls on the floor of my own house, I would keep it.  Unless a person has a nasty, filthy house why would you throw it out? 

[txhorns79]

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I think Josh has every right to decide he might want kids. Liza obviously has every right to not want anymore. That's your classic impasse/deal breaker there. I really, really hope this show doesn't decide to saddle us with an actual pregnancy story.

I think for me, it doesn't work because it makes little sense for where they are in their relationship.  I get that Liza isn't getting any younger, but haven't they only been dating a few months (with a big breakup) within the world of the show?  I mean, they don't even live together, but they are discussing having a child?  It just seems crazy to me. 

[dubbel zout]

22 minutes ago, Maharincess said:

I'm confused, why shouldn't Diana's love life be played for laughs on a comedy show?

What we're seeing now has a cruel edge, IMO. Diana is desperate and grasping, and that's not funny.

7 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

haven't they only been dating a few months (with a big breakup) within the world of the show?

I think it's been at least a year in show time.

[wovenloaf]

I too thought the pregnancy test after one week was pretty pointless...? Am I just unaware of technology these days? 

The NuvaRing mysteriously falling out is actually a thing that happens in real life though... A good friend of mine quit using it because one month the thing just disappeared into thin air. She went to remove it and it was just...not there. She never did find it though.

I feel like Charles's "management" on this show is written so lazily. It's just 1) Kelsey floats an idea, 2) he rejects it, 3) Kelsey goes back a day later to try to convince him it was a good idea, 4) he suddenly sees the light and caves to lame idea. Rinse and repeat. Or maybe I'm just generally tired of them trying to convince me Kelsey is so amazing at her job... I'd rather see more of Diana in action.

[ExplainItAgain]

Yeah, I'm getting a slimy vibe from the therapist for some reason.

And I agree that Kelsey's clothes are atrocious this season - that blank tank showing quite a bit of cleavage seemed inappropriate for the office. I'm not on board with Colin either. He seems to have no personality.

[txhorns79]

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I'm not on board with Colin either. He seems to have no personality.

Yes, this!  I feel they put a lot of effort into making him a type (i.e. the tattoos, writing for the New Yorker, having a novel, etc.) without bothering to give him a personality. 

[HunterHunted]

On Thursday, December 08, 2016 at 4:19 AM, hiccup said:

The only thing that really bugged me about this episode was the Audubon Society giving a parrot to Diana, without even asking her.  Very irresponsible and it made me feel bad for the bird. 

Gah!!!!!!! Seeing Diana with the parrot drove me nuts. Some parrots can live as long as 100 years. No real bird lover would randomly gift a bird as smart and as long lived as a parrot to someone that they didn't have the utmost faith and confidence in. The best thing about the parrot plot was Diana calling a parrot rescue organization. So many people just let inconvenient animals loose in the relative wild of the city to thrive or die on their own.

[Atlanta]

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Gah!!!!!!! Seeing Diana with the parrot drove me nuts. Some parrots can live as long as 100 years. No real bird lover would randomly gift a bird as smart and as long lived as a parrot to someone that they didn't have the utmost faith and confidence in. The best thing about the parrot plot was Diana calling a parrot rescue organization. So many people just let inconvenient animals loose in the relative wild of the city to thrive or die on their own.

Parrot owners have to put the birds in their will. That bird will outlive Diana. A friend's parrot is 40. 

[hankthetank]

On 12/8/2016 at 11:03 AM, dubbel zout said:

I wish I could like this, but I can't shake the feeling it's being played for laughs and/or the other shoe will drop next week in the season finale, and we'll find out something really awful/dumb/creepy about the guy. Diana's love life shouldn't be played for laughs like this

 

I think that we're going to find out he was really a patient in the building for another mental health counselor like Diana was and not a doctor. 

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, hankthetank said:

I think that we're going to find out he was really a patient in the building for another mental health counselor like Diana was and not a doctor. 

Diana's therapist knew him as a doctor, so I think that part is accurate. He could still be a patient somewhere else, of course, and had been keeping the level of crazy down until he met Diana.

[bichonblitz]

Totally agree that short does not equal naturally looking chunky. Sarah Jessica Parker, Susan Lucci, Kristin Chenowith, Paula Adbul, just to name a few. You can be short and very slender. It's all about your body type and where you carry your weight if you gain a few pounds. 

[rallymantis]

On 12/9/2016 at 7:10 AM, luna1122 said:

That sounds so familiar, but I can't place it. What book?

It's from Otherwise Engaged by Suzanne Finnamore.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

On 12/9/2016 at 9:16 PM, wovenloaf said:

I feel like Charles's "management" on this show is written so lazily. It's just 1) Kelsey floats an idea, 2) he rejects it, 3) Kelsey goes back a day later to try to convince him it was a good idea, 4) he suddenly sees the light and caves to lame idea. Rinse and repeat. Or maybe I'm just generally tired of them trying to convince me Kelsey is so amazing at her job... I'd rather see more of Diana in action.

Especially since Kelsey is quite bad at running an imprint. She gave almost all their capital to that Cat Marnell expy as an advance despite apparently having NO pages, Liza was the great savior of retaining "Aubrey Alexis", and Kelsey jumped the gun on Colin's book, ended up losing him to Random House, and giving them tons of free buzz in the process. So far The Deciding Decade seems to be Millennial's only successful title (which Liza gave them the edge on signing, but since that's a secret I give them a pass). Plus let's not forget the Bjornburg fiasco from S1. I do think she has good instincts, but everything we've seen onscreen shows she has little of the experience or maturity to be editor-in-chief. 

[aradia22]

Another pleasant, unremarkable episode. 

I feel like after this episode and the parrot, they're rushing Diana and the therapist so she can be in a relationship. I don't know why it's so difficult. Diana is smart and beautiful and reasonably well off. She's a little older, sure, but it shouldn't be this difficult for her to at least find a partner who is somewhat stable that she can be with for longer than a few episodes. It's not like Diana needs to be a focus but it could be like Maggie and Lauren who were in the background. I feel like they've been setting things up to imply that an older woman has to be desperate and now they're trying to rush this commitment to compensate for that. Also, personally, unless you're in a committed relationship and you've been talking about getting a pet and then you're SO surprises you with one for a holiday or something, a random pet gifting is horribly inconsiderate. I agree with Diana. A pet is a huge responsibility you don't just foist onto someone. That's irresponsible and inconsiderate towards the person who has to figure out how to take care of the pet and the animal itself who could be unintentionally mistreated. Like, if you give a dog to someone who works all the time or if you give an exotic pet to someone who has no idea how to take care of it. 

Also, the therapist freaks me out a little. Sure, there's whatever backstory we're not talking about with his wife kicking him out and him not having a place of his own. But I think it's also how the actor is playing it. I keep getting the feeling that he's somehow conning/manipulating her or he's a serial killer. 

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I feel like Charles's "management" on this show is written so lazily. It's just 1) Kelsey floats an idea, 2) he rejects it, 3) Kelsey goes back a day later to try to convince him it was a good idea, 4) he suddenly sees the light and caves to lame idea. Rinse and repeat. Or maybe I'm just generally tired of them trying to convince me Kelsey is so amazing at her job... I'd rather see more of Diana in action.

Yup. I mean, I did like the underlying message about a young woman not being afraid to speak up for something she felt passionately about (and also back it up by saying she would go herself and pay for it) and having her older male boss respect that. It felt like a variation of the conversation magazines love about women asking for raises (which ignores a lot of other workplace issues but whatever) but it doesn't make me think much of how Charles runs Imperial. It would have made more sense if he stopped bringing up her losing the book and instead said more about them not having money in the budget (what happened to their financing issues?) and then agreeing to compromise when she said she would go to a nearby book fair (?) and pay her own way.

[AnnaMurray75NSA]

On 12/8/2016 at 9:01 AM, Snarklepuss said:

I liked this episode.  I like Diana with her new therapist boyfriend and the parrot made for some good comedy.

yeah! agree with that! this parrot looks like my! And I like this episode so much! really great humor! After this episode, I wanted to find out more info about this parrot and started to search for birds' blogs. This blog I like the most https://petsoid.com/how-long-do-horses-live/ because here u can find info not only about birds but about all pets. There are threads about dogs, cats, horses, etc. I am scrolling their blog every day. I like that all their content is free for everyone, u don’t need to pay for it. So, if u have free time, u can look over this site for more info!

Edited August 20, 2020 by AnnaMurray75NSA