S01.E01: Disconnection

[Indy]

I'm fascinated by culty religions so I'm all in with this show. I haven't read Leah's book yet but it's on my to-read list.  

Jenna Misgavige's autobiography is a fascinating read, especially from the point of view of a young child in Scientology. She's Ron's niece so her leaving was a big deal. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Indy

[bethster2000]

Cheers to Leah.  This is a show that needs to be done.  I cried about the Scobee story.  You could see the anguish on both mother and daughter's faces, even now.  May that lovely lady rest in peace.

You can find any number of terrifying videos of $cientologists confronting critics, hunting down those who have left the church, and other such harassment.  Both Mark Bunker and Angry Gay Pope are good places to start.  Marty Rathbun, who was a very high-ranking leader of the "church" for many years until he blew, also posts videos of $cientolgists at his front door, on his street, blocking his car, etc.

p.s.  In loving memory of Lisa McPherson.  Google it.

Edited December 1, 2016 by bethster2000
Rathbun's name is Marty, I think, not Mark.

[spiderpig]

8 hours ago, MrSmith said:

LOL! Love this. We should change it to "parisoners", though. Much more accurate in conveying the idea of "parishioner"/"prisoner".

I'd attribute the typo to Dr. Freud, but we all know how The Cult feels about psychiatry.  But hey - if it annoys the Clams, the more the better.

Parisoners!  Parisoners!!  Parisoners!!!

(Too much Two Buck Chuck on my part...)

[heatherchandler]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 5:50 PM, TheVoicesToldMeTo said:

Looking forward to the shit show. I was a huge fan of Leah starting back when she had guest appearances on Who's the Boss

I remember that - she was discovered as a model while pretending to eat dog food!

[Snickerdoodle]

On 12/1/2016 at 4:12 AM, Angeltoes said:

I had never heard of Amy Scobee but I immediately wondered (especially when her dad was wearing a NASA ballcap) if she was related to astronaut Dick Scobee that was killed on Challenger.  Turns out that she is his niece, which I thought was an interesting side note.

I think that when Shannon Doherty beats cancer (which she will), she and Leah should be cast as sisters in a movie.  Both of them have moxie and no problem telling it like it is.

That is very interesting!  When I saw the name Scobee I immediately thought of Dick Scobee as well. 

[bilgistic]

On 11/30/2016 at 11:31 PM, lordonia said:

 

  Hide contents

 

I've been thinking about disconnection, which is devastating for the affected, but there are other religions that also practice shunning. Not that that makes it any more acceptable, but to my mind it's far from the worst thing Scientology does.

 

On 12/1/2016 at 9:22 AM, fountain said:

The money thing of Scientology seems to be higher than many church's but I know lots of people who are required to provide 10% of their income to the Church.  The church asks for tax returns and determines the payments required the following year.  If you cannot give 10% there is a lot of pressure put in you and often you may do work for the church.  It isn't as extreme as Scientology but my husband's grand parents bankrupted themselves for the Catholic Church.

I also am fascinated by the lengths people go to support any type of religious order and how the higher ups force them there.  Scientology is especially erroneous in this area and it is in the spotlight because of celebrities.

I "grew up in church". The tactics of Scientology aren't all that unique from those of other churches'. I inherently distrust most organized religion (well, I guess I should say the people running them), because of their indoctrination, the ways they try to get you to recruit others, the controversial finances, politics, general misconduct, etc. Yes, Scientology is fucking evil, but it's on top of the putrid pile that is "religion/the church", as far as I'm concerned.

[MsTree]

All this BS about supporting the church just begs the question "why is this required?" and "why do these gullible people actually give up their savings to join this cult?"  If they are so desperate for acceptance, they're barking up the wrong tree...basically BUYING approval of all the other idiots who buy into this "religion". Pyramid scheme at its best. Ugh.

[savannah1985]

My aunt was fascinated with Scientology and had more than 15 books on her Kindle, which I inherited when she passed away last year.  I've read most of them so there's nothing new for me on this show but I'm watching it anyway.  My aunt told me that when she was 17, in the late 1960's, she was at the beach with a friend and a couple of cute guys started talking to them about some kind of religion, it was just vaguely referred to.  The boys guided them to a house and kept on talking, but the minute they used the words "taking courses" my aunt and her friend said " Oh no, courses?  That sounds like school. See ya." and just left. It was only a few years ago that my aunt realized the boys were Scientologists.  I'd be interested in what exactly is a "course" because I've read all the books and nobody explains it.

I live in San Diego and I have a cousin who lives in Hemet, where Scientology's Gold Base is.  We were visiting my cousin so we drove over to the base to see what it was like.  We kept driving back and forth past the entrance and then once we stopped and put the hood up, hoping someone would come out and tell us to go away. No luck. We saw the trailers that are the RPF (where "bad" Scientologists go), the ship that LRH had built in his front yard, the golf course that's all burned up ( Hemet is hot) and the spikes on the fences that surround the whole base.  They even built a tunnel from one side of the road to the other partly because people were escaping. It's very enclosed and, to me, prison-like.

[Trace]

I was amazed at how the CO$ was allowed to discredit members telling the truth.  Their little snarky come backs (so and so is a pathological liar!  blah blah blah) made me literally LOL.  Those drama queens throw more shade that the Real Housewives of Atlanta!

[spiderpig]

27 minutes ago, Trace said:

I was amazed at how the CO$ was allowed to discredit members telling the truth.  Their little snarky come backs (so and so is a pathological liar!  blah blah blah) made me literally LOL.  Those drama queens throw more shade that the Real Housewives of Atlanta!

All I can think is "Tax Exempt! Tax Exempt!" when it comes to these frauds. Anybody want to start our own "church"?

[savannah1985]

And the way they got that tax-exempt status!  I'm no fan of the IRS as an entity, but they  (Scietologists) harassed the hell out of the people who work there, filing individual lawsuits and just targeting anyone who worked there, creating mountains of paperwork, just being horrendous nuisances.  I mean, how bad do you have to be, when even the IRS backs down?

[Wings]

4 hours ago, spiderpig said:

All I can think is "Tax Exempt! Tax Exempt!" when it comes to these frauds. Anybody want to start our own "church"?

I'm in. We meet every Wednesday at Trader Joe's and worship the selection and price points. 

[spiderpig]

5 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I'm in. We meet every Wednesday at Trader Joe's and worship the selection and price points. 

Best idea I've heard in years!

[spiderpig]

4 hours ago, savannah1985 said:

And the way they got that tax-exempt status!  I'm no fan of the IRS as an entity, but they  (Scietologists) harassed the hell out of the people who work there, filing individual lawsuits and just targeting anyone who worked there, creating mountains of paperwork, just being horrendous nuisances.  I mean, how bad do you have to be, when even the IRS backs down?

Operation Snow White.  Can you imagine what would happen to lil ole us'ns if we tried one wink of what those guys pulled?  They got away scot free and continue to scam the system for personal aggrandizement and profit.  If you're at the top of the CO$ food chain, that is.

[Wings]

1 hour ago, spiderpig said:

Best idea I've heard in years!

So many have no clue that God's name is Joe. They call him lord or father! 

[spiderpig]

Just now, wings707 said:

So many have no clue that God's name is Joe. They call him lord or father! 

And we won't have to sign billion-year contracts to serve him.

[Wings]

8 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

And we won't have to sign billion-year contracts to serve him.

No, but I have pledged my undying love forever though.  And I can visit often, only 6 mins from my house! 

[spiderpig]

1 minute ago, wings707 said:

No, but I have pledged my undying love forever though.  And I can visit often, only 6 mins from my house! 

You win.  My local is 15 minutes away.  I'll be Tommy to your Miscavige.  Can we beat up, harass and abuse followers who are spotted in Whole Food?

[spiderpig]

Guess I should add something relevant to Ep 1.  I wonder how many viewers this attracted who have only a vague knowledge of how controlling and corrupt this bunch is.  I hope it's creating awareness out there.

[Wings]

5 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Guess I should add something relevant to Ep 1.  I wonder how many viewers this attracted who have only a vague knowledge of how controlling and corrupt this bunch is.  I hope it's creating awareness out there.

I do too. I want the exposure to reach heights it has not seen previously. To the point that Tom Cruise loses his box office appeal and production companies don't want to take the risk. 

[Wings]

Leah was on WWHL. Andy asked if she had gotten an apology from Katie Homes. She replied that she got a public apology. She said that when those in high places leave they sign contracts preventing them from having any contact with other defectors. 

I cannot imagine what she went through having left the king. I suspect she was threatened with losing Suri. 

Nicole Kidman has not had contact with the children she adopted with Tom. She had been labeled "subversive" and her brainwashed children shunned her. She has never spoken a word about this or COS. Scary stuff. 

When you have to threaten people, something very disturbing is happening. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by wings707

[spiderpig]

13 minutes ago, wings707 said:

When you have to threaten people, something very disturbing is happening. 

This is what they do. Like other highest-of-the-high public individuals, they threaten to sue anybody and everybody - aware that with their deep pockets (thank you IRS) they can starve their victims out of court.

Nicole lost all of her fresh appeal during the ten-year contract with Tommy.  She used to be lively and energetic in that patented Aussie way. Now she looks like a manniquin.  Keith and the kids helped somewhat, but I always feel she looks like a broken woman.

It would be great if she'd agree to talk to Leah.  What does she have to lose? Her two oldest are already hardened CO$ zombies. She's world famous on her own and could do a lot to simply state "They are a nasty, brainwashing cult out for money and power over the suggestible."

Can you imagine the stink if any other organization forbade contact with a close relative, as shown in the Scobee case where the mother was DYING?

(Shaking my head at the sheer assinity of it all.)

[bilgistic]

44 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I do too. I want the exposure to reach heights it has not seen previously. To the point that Tom Cruise loses his box office appeal and production companies don't want to take the risk. 

Neither my mother nor I have watched anything of his since that rant on mental illness and how it can be cured with vitamins or whatever. I'm here to assure you that isn't the case. He can fuck right off.

[Wings]

4 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Neither my mother nor I have watched anything of his since that rant on mental illness and how it can be cured with vitamins or whatever. I'm here to assure you that isn't the case. He can fuck right off.

I haven't either bUT many do. He has not had an epic fall and I want to see that. Will Smith can go away, too. He has done nothing despicable but another revered by COS and he has come to irritate me as has his wife, Jada. 

[spiderpig]

19 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Neither my mother nor I have watched anything of his since that rant on mental illness and how it can be cured with vitamins or whatever. I'm here to assure you that isn't the case. He can fuck right off.

He made Matt Lauer look like a Nobel Laureate in that Today Show interview.

Tommy: "You don't know the history of psychiatry.  I do."

That statement speaks for itself.  Pompous, ignorant, untalented blowhard.

I'm still angry that he stunk up an otherwise great movie, Minority Report.  Spielberg learned his lesson during War of the Worlds, when Tommy had a Scientology tent on the set and let loose the cult on Spielberg's young son, who had a learning disorder.  (I think they followed him to his therapist's office or something.)

[Wings]

Oh wow. I didn't know that. Excellent, keep it up Tom. Alienate more, you are doing Leah's work for her. 

[FairyDusted]

I'd really want to know why she was fired from the Talk. NOBODY has ever brought up that issue.

[spiderpig]

5 minutes ago, FairyDusted said:

I'd really want to know why she was fired from the Talk. NOBODY has ever brought up that issue.

Does Oprah have any clout on The Talk?  She's rumored to be a closeted Scieno.

Edited December 4, 2016 by spiderpig

[FairyDusted]

^^^^ I don't think so.Sara is the creative and Julie probably is under her CBS hubby. Also, Holly was taken off without a peep at the same time. 

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 7:46 PM, TheVoicesToldMeTo said:

I may be in the minority on this, but every time Leah recounts TomKat's wedding debacle, it seems like she was being a horrible/possibly drunk guest.

It's perfectly fine to be concerned about your MIA friend (Shelly Miscavage) but it wasn't like someone could suddenly produce her out of thin air in an Italian castle, if she made a huge spectacle out of it.  I just have this weird feeling like she felt she had finally made it to the Scientology A-list, TomKat's wedding would be her unofficial inductee ceremony, and the "church" invited her friend JLo (out of nowhere) and Leah felt like her thunder was stolen.  Whatever ridiculous farce that wedding was, Leah's invitation required her to just sit, eat, clap, toast, be a good cultist and STFU.  She had an option not to attend.

This is covered in greater detail in her book, Troublemaker.  There were many things Leah found upsetting, and most very valid.  She took her friend JLo, and the church immediately saw JLo as the next get.  They were long time friends, and I don't think Leah was recruiting JLo.  The church went about trying to separate them the entire trip.  The transportation, the planes, the seating, events at the castle, etc.  JLo expressed discomfort with this, so Leah accommodated her friend, and who wouldn't.  I'm sure Leah felt used and discarded.

I can't imagine asking where's Shelly is unusual.  She was always front and center, and suddenly she's MIA - and when her husband was serving as best man to the biggest star in CO$.  Very unusual.  Leah also says that during a dinner, Suri was loudly heard crying.  Neither Tom nor Katie acted interested, and Leah eventually got up to see what was happening to the baby.  The baby was lying on the floor, and a group (including Tom's sister) were just staring at her in awe.  It was as if she was the messiah - the reincarnation of L. Ron.  No one attempted to comfort the baby.  Anyway, what Leah found most hurtful was the long letter sent by Katie Holmes (probably coerced) that attacked Leah at length.  Leah was then thoroughly punished, unfairly, and expensively.  In fact, Katie Holmes has actually sent a very generic apology letter to Leah publically.  It take ownership of nothing, and maybe that's part of the contract she signed in her divorce. 

One thing that Leah said she realized in that moment - Tom Cruise is now second in command in CO$.  She was vocal about why is this man given carte blanche when he's simply another celebrity parishioner.  Why does he have all of this power?  And it is bizarre.  Could you imagine the Pope elevating his best friend as the Vice Pope?  A man who was Catholic, but had no authority within the church.  I'm sure Catholics would be up in arms.  Rightfully.

[juliet73]

IMO,  I don't think Leah being fired from The Talk had anything to do with Scientology.  I think it had everything to do with her and HRP being the ones the fans tuned in to watch.  Sara and  Julie, being the wet noodle personalities, couldn't handle that. 

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 10:26 AM, Sgt Pepper said:

Wow.  Scary shit.  So, the sea org members give up everything, time , family etc, live and breath Scientology , do they get paid? Is it like a job? 

Go Leah! I am proud of her for exposing this.  What kind of "church" promotes separation from family and all this auditing and lie detector bill shit? Crazy! 

The way they draw people in is through the auditing.  It functions as a rudimentary lie detector, and the auditors are able to talk you through former traumas, and are able to relieve anxiety.  It's talk therapy, in essence, and people get a lot of relief from the process.  The problem is, you are eventually forced to do this when you don't want to, and every word you say is documented for blackmail purposes.  That's how they attack those that blow.  That would be like your therapist releasing your sessions online when you stop seeing her. 

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 6:05 PM, bethster2000 said:

Cheers to Leah.  This is a show that needs to be done.  I cried about the Scobee story.  You could see the anguish on both mother and daughter's faces, even now.  May that lovely lady rest in peace.

You can find any number of terrifying videos of $cientologists confronting critics, hunting down those who have left the church, and other such harassment.  Both Mark Bunker and Angry Gay Pope are good places to start.  Marty Rathbun, who was a very high-ranking leader of the "church" for many years until he blew, also posts videos of $cientolgists at his front door, on his street, blocking his car, etc.

p.s.  In loving memory of Lisa McPherson.  Google it.

CO$ definitely continues to harass Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, and Paul Haggis.  It's really stupid of them.  These men are important enough, especial well known director Haggis, and they are publicizing all that's done to them.

Yes, google Lisa McPherson.  But be warned - the story is truly heart breaking and reveals just how evil the cult is.  Also be aware that you'll probably come across her autopsy photos.  They're graphic but necessary to reflect what they did to her.

3 hours ago, wings707 said:

I do too. I want the exposure to reach heights it has not seen previously. To the point that Tom Cruise loses his box office appeal and production companies don't want to take the risk. 

Going clear, book and movie, struck the death knell of CO$.  Tom's career going south will finish it off.  Word is they live off the money he donates.  He can never stop working and does back to back projects for a decade now.  He does it for the "church".  He's a true zealot.

2 hours ago, spiderpig said:

This is what they do. Like other highest-of-the-high public individuals, they threaten to sue anybody and everybody - aware that with their deep pockets (thank you IRS) they can starve their victims out of court.

Nicole lost all of her fresh appeal during the ten-year contract with Tommy.  She used to be lively and energetic in that patented Aussie way. Now she looks like a manniquin.  Keith and the kids helped somewhat, but I always feel she looks like a broken woman.

It would be great if she'd agree to talk to Leah.  What does she have to lose? Her two oldest are already hardened CO$ zombies. She's world famous on her own and could do a lot to simply state "They are a nasty, brainwashing cult out for money and power over the suggestible."

Can you imagine the stink if any other organization forbade contact with a close relative, as shown in the Scobee case where the mother was DYING?

(Shaking my head at the sheer assinity of it all.)

I don't think Nicole will ever give up hope of reuniting with her first two children.  She will never speak against the "church".  Going Clear did a great job of speaking for Nicole.  The person who personally worked daily to alienate the children from their mother described it.  They taught them that their mother was evil and dangerous.  They taught them to hate her - daily. 

In her book, Leah mentions being in a transport with Nicole's kids during the grande Cruise wedding #3.  She asked them about their mother.  Isabella got angry and called Nicole a bitch.  Connor just seemed sad and looked away out the window.  Isabella didn't have either of her parents at her wedding.  Connor will never leave, IMO.  He's considered the heir of Tom.  There's a very creepy picture of a ceremonial chair, with Tom, Connor, and Miscavige.  It's easy to google.

[spiderpig]

34 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

I think the book also goes into how Leah realized she was only invited to the TomKat wedding so she would invite Jennifer.  Leah was completely ignored by her fellow Scientologists while they doted on Jennifer and even tried to separate her from Leah.  It was blatant and very disrespectful.  (I find it hilarious that Jennifer knew exactly what she was doing in terms of perks and publicity without having any intention of joining their Church.)  So on top of realizing how she was already being treated and used, the issue with Shelly was the final slap in the face that started to wake her up.

Wasn't/isn't Lopez's dad a practicing Scientologist?

[Wings]

• Leah has not given up on her career.  Her mision to expose COS is one thing she does.  if offered a good role she will take it!

[RedheadZombie]

Jason Beghe is quite prominent in Going Clear. 

[MrSmith]

We still haven't gotten to watch this episode yet. We were out of town at Thanksgiving and my wife was out of town the week before that. So, we're still catching up on our shows. However, whenever I think about Scientology or see "COS", I always think "Cult of Scientology". And I would like to apologize in advance that I still enjoy some of the movies Tom is in. In my defense, we don't pay to see very many movies, instead waiting for them to come to HBO or another premium channel.  So, while the studios are still making some money off us for those movies, it's considerably less than if we went to the theater. Though, we did pay to see the Jack Reacher sequel in theaters.

[Trace]

17 hours ago, spiderpig said:

He made Matt Lauer look like a Nobel Laureate in that Today Show interview.

Tommy: "You don't know the history of psychiatry.  I do."

That statement speaks for itself.  Pompous, ignorant, untalented blowhard.

I'm still angry that he stunk up an otherwise great movie, Minority Report.  Spielberg learned his lesson during War of the Worlds, when Tommy had a Scientology tent on the set and let loose the cult on Spielberg's young son, who had a learning disorder.  (I think they followed him to his therapist's office or something.)

Matt!!! You're being glib!!  You're being glib Matt!!

[Guest]

There is obviously going to be a lot of crossover in these threads, which is totally fine. However, if your comments are more about the religion in general or Leah in general, there are threads more suited for that - the Scientology thread for general things related to the religion or other high-profile practitioners or the Leah Remini thread for more discussion of her book.  As much as possible, let's try to keep the episode threads contained to things pertaining to that episode.

Thanks!

[psychoticstate]

As a long time critic of the CO$, I was never a fan of Leah Remini's - - I found her loud and obnoxious - - until she blew.  Now I admire her greatly.  

I was thrilled to hear about this series and just saw the first episode.  As others have pointed out, Leah has no fucks to give and it's magnificent. I hope she is able to take down the cult. 

I think this first episode, at least, shows how people do get sucked into the "Church."  From many things I have read, the Church appeals to their needs.  Celebrities like Cruise and Travolta are told the Church will help advance their career; when it happens, they are afraid to jinx it.  (Added, of course, are the auditing sessions they are blackmailed with.) People like Leah and Amy Scobee, who go in from a young age, know no differently. It's truly very sad.

I'm looking forward to future episodes.

[WescottF1]

On 12/4/2016 at 4:44 AM, savannah1985 said:

I'd be interested in what exactly is a "course" because I've read all the books and nobody explains it.

That's the huge thing I've seen via Leah's interviews, shows, and her book that I'm about halfway through.  Everything is described in very broad, vague terms with a lot of "big words" but nothing is explained specifically.  I guess you have to be "in the know" and fork over some moolah for that.

[shelley1234]

As for the "Where is Shelly?" drama.....  I do think as Leah said it is a basic question to be asked.  And since it has become something to note and they haven't made some kind of point of having her seen publicly after all of Leah's blathering...it's clear to me that Shelly is dead.  I'll believe that until I see her walking and talking, especially given the documentary talking about how violent her husband could be with some of the parishioners and those who would dissent.  

[zxy556575]

Do you think the police who investigated the missing persons claim were lying about having seen her? It's always possible they were bought off.

I think Shelly is being held at Hemet, probably in the hole much of the time and believing she deserves it.

[Rlb8031]

On 12/1/2016 at 10:26 AM, Sgt Pepper said:

Wow.  Scary shit.  So, the sea org members give up everything, time , family etc, live and breath Scientology , do they get paid? Is it like a job? 

Go Leah! I am proud of her for exposing this.  What kind of "church" promotes separation from family and all this auditing and lie detector bill shit? Crazy! 

It is like a job - if that job was being a slave. Room and board are included in your membership in Sea Org, so you have no need for money. As a result your pay is something along the lines of pennies an hour. I read Miscavage's neice's book many years ago and I recall that she said she made something like 23 cents an hour doing manual labor (painting, framing, etc.) at one of the Scientology camps. 

[beeziebee]

On 12/1/2016 at 9:22 AM, fountain said:

 It isn't as extreme as Scientology but my husband's grand parents bankrupted themselves for the Catholic Church.

I am really sorry to hear that about your husband's grandparents, and I certainly don't doubt what they've told you.  The Catholic Church has no requirement for tithing, but parishioners are expected to give within their means, certainly not to the point of bankruptcy.  If their pastor forced them to do this it should be reported to their bishop.  Sorry to go off topic, but I just had to stand up for my team.

[TheGreenWave]

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 6:57 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I also hope they get into the severely coerced, if not forced, abortions in the Sea Org.  Originally, Sea Org could have children, but they had to be in almost 24/7 daycare, and received very poor care.  During that time, there were still some being forced to have abortions - and some women were not even allowed to use a phone to call and consult with their husbands.  The Sea Org are supposedly revered by parishioners - listen to Tom Cruise rave about them.  But they are not much more than slaves.  The abuse has been documented at length, and even by Miscavige's niece, Jenna.  Typically the higher ranking people are not required to sacrifice their children to a childless life, and a billion years servitude.  Guess that shows how much Miscavige does NOT value family.  Let his niece be Sea Org, has sent his wife to the hole indefinitely, or to her death, and when learning his father looked to be having a heart attack, Miscavige told the man following his father - if he dies he dies.  He's a monster.

This is incredibly frightening.  Also, wasn't there some rumor that Connor and Isabella were adopted by Tom and Nicole from other Scientologists?  I wonder if they were forced to give them up to them??  You know, because it doesn't really matter who raises them....

[princelina]

On 12/6/2016 at 9:32 AM, WescottF1 said:

That's the huge thing I've seen via Leah's interviews, shows, and her book that I'm about halfway through.  Everything is described in very broad, vague terms with a lot of "big words" but nothing is explained specifically.  I guess you have to be "in the know" and fork over some moolah for that.

My guess is that the "courses" are also full of deep, vague,  inspiring language that make people feel really good about themselves, so that they want to continue, but in retrospect aren't meaningful enough to be remembered in a useful way; they just give good feels.

[MamaMax]

On 11/30/2016 at 11:31 PM, lordonia said:

 

  Hide contents

 

I've been thinking about disconnection, which is devastating for the affected, but there are other religions that also practice shunning. Not that that makes it any more acceptable, but to my mind it's far from the worst thing Scientology does.

Although the Amish are usually brought up as an example of this, I don't think )from my personal contact w Amish people) that it's so black and white. I know of people who are technically "shunned" who go visit their moms, siblings, etc.  And you're only shunned if you choose baptism and then reneg on the promises you made.

On 12/1/2016 at 9:22 AM, fountain said:

The money thing of Scientology seems to be higher than many church's but I know lots of people who are required to provide 10% of their income to the Church.  The church asks for tax returns and determines the payments required the following year.  If you cannot give 10% there is a lot of pressure put in you and often you may do work for the church.  It isn't as extreme as Scientology but my husband's grand parents bankrupted themselves for the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church does not require tithing, and I have never, ever been asked for a tax return...I have never even been ASKED what my income is. It is a free will donation for the Sunday collections, and things like weddings ask for a "suggested donation" to cover costs, but if you don' have it, you can still get married.

On 12/13/2016 at 10:58 AM, beeziebee said:

I am really sorry to hear that about your husband's grandparents, and I certainly don't doubt what they've told you.  The Catholic Church has no requirement for tithing, but parishioners are expected to give within their means, certainly not to the point of bankruptcy.  If their pastor forced them to do this it should be reported to their bishop.  Sorry to go off topic, but I just had to stand up for my team.

Thanks, me too.

[DangerousMinds]

My experience with the Catholic Church (growing up) was the same. The church never asked individual parishioners what their income was. Tithing not required, just whatever you'd like to give each week. 

[DrSparkles]

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 4:25 PM, MamaMax said:

Although the Amish are usually brought up as an example of this, I don't think )from my personal contact w Amish people) that it's so black and white. I know of people who are technically "shunned" who go visit their moms, siblings, etc.  And you're only shunned if you choose baptism and then reneg on the promises you made.

The Catholic Church does not require tithing, and I have never, ever been asked for a tax return...I have never even been ASKED what my income is. It is a free will donation for the Sunday collections, and things like weddings ask for a "suggested donation" to cover costs, but if you don' have it, you can still get married.

Thanks, me too.

The BIG Baptist church in Jax FL used to do this. Dunno if they still do. I mean, they took automatic payments like Netflix! (I think I quoted the wrong psot)

[shelley1234]

My church did automatic payments as well.   Churches are places of worship, but they are also businesses and that's just good business.   I never became as aware of how much it was a business until I was put on the Church Council and got to sit in on all those meetings.  Sure, Sunday may be all about hope and light and Jesus, but most other days are focused on paying the rent, keeping the lights on and getting someone in to snake out a drain.