S13.E09: You Haven't Done Nothin'

[WhosThatGirl]

I mean I understand that part of the appeal of the show is that all their personal entanglements bring tension to their patients but the older I get the more I realize it worries me that my real doctors would possibly be having these issues while doing an operation on me! 

Edited November 19, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[Sheenieb]

9 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

The teaching system at Seattle Grace Mercy Death is broken, and has been for a long time (heck, it was back when the original five started), and changes do need to be made.  Some of what was being discussed came from discussions with the current crop of interns and young residents, and also is based on disciplinary records of doctors going back to the beginning of the show.  But the way Catherine and Bailey are going about it is wrong.

Right. It's one thing to overhaul the program, but at least let the director of the program in on it. They didn't even give him a chance to examine and correct missteps. Again, they just focused on outliers. I don't see Richard and Catherine lasting long after this. She clearly doesn't respect him as a professional, nor as a spouse.

[Starscream]

7 hours ago, h8omb said:

Also, when Bailey started crying in the scene outside with Richard (hey, is that rain in Seattle?!) I almost strained something rolling my eyes. My greatest hope for the remainder of this season is that we see a proper Chief of Surgery installed.

So a Chief of Surgery isn't the person to go to in order to make adjustments to your pension plan?

[dr pepper]

Prediction: Alex goes to prison. Prison has a riot. Alex does something heroic. Alex gets paroled. Parole comes with serious probation, with restrictions on his movement. He'll be Doctor Anklet all next season.

[TVForever]

Bailey should go back to being a doctor, or let her be an administrator without supervision over personnel, because she is probably the worst Chief ever. 

[kingshearte]

I'm getting to the point where I almost have to just try to appreciate each episode on its own merits, rather than trying to piece it into the whole story, because I agree with y'all: much of the overall stories just doesn't make sense. But I didn't hate this episode.

I agree with those who find Richard's treatment completely unsupportable. There are and have been some issues with the teaching at this hospital, but to do all this — including actually hiring his replacement — without even telling him? That's way beyond "not letting personal feelings get in the way." That is just plain unacceptable.

I'm glad that Jo has finally told Alex about being married, even if it makes no sense for so many reasons. I loved watching him react, too. It was like he wanted to be angry that she had kept this from him for so long, and started to get mad, and then was too exhausted and/or just thought through her perspective enough to start to understand why she didn't tell him. And then making it around to her desire to keep him from doing something stupid and ending up in jail was excellent. I actually would have kind of loved it if, instead of just a wry smirk about the irony, he'd actually lost it and just laughed and laughed, because it's the kind of breaking point that can totally have that effect. But I guess they didn't want the scene to come across too light-hearted.

I kinda liked the Owen-Riggs interaction. It seems they are slowly making their way back to being friends, which I think is nice. Initially (and, frankly, for the last season and a half), I was all "really, Owen? You're going to be all holier than thou about cheating?" but then he finally admitted it to Riggs. Although he did leave out the part about also cheating on his first fiancée and cheating on Emma, both with Cristina... In any case, it was still nice to see him admit to these things, instead of just being a raging asshole to Riggs for doing the same thing. I will say, though, that, even though I'm not loving Owen the way I used to, I will be pretty upset if he finds it within himself to love Amelia enough to accept being with her even if it means no kids, when he couldn't love Cristina enough for that.

[Joana]

Remember ages ago when Callie was made Chief Resident or whatever it was, and she was useless at it because all she wanted was to do surgeries, so she kept turning to Bailey for help, who then organized everything and got things done? What happened to that Bailey?

[tapplum]

4 hours ago, kingshearte said:

I kinda liked the Owen-Riggs interaction. It seems they are slowly making their way back to being friends, which I think is nice. Initially (and, frankly, for the last season and a half), I was all "really, Owen? You're going to be all holier than thou about cheating?" but then he finally admitted it to Riggs. Although he did leave out the part about also cheating on his first fiancée and cheating on Emma, both with Cristina... In any case, it was still nice to see him admit to these things, instead of just being a raging asshole to Riggs for doing the same thing. I will say, though, that, even though I'm not loving Owen the way I used to, I will be pretty upset if he finds it within himself to love Amelia enough to accept being with her even if it means no kids, when he couldn't love Cristina enough for that.

Surprising myself, I'd actually be okay with Owen resigning himself to a life with Amelia sans kids - mainly because Omelia is all about settling. I don't belive that Owen loves her (or, for that matter, that Amelia loves Owen). I see two lonely people who don't have any more fight in them, settling for each other because they lost what they really wanted.

I hated much of Crowen, but I never doubted that Owen loved Cristina, even when he was an unbelievable arse to her. It was presented as a rather desperate love that can't settle, can't compromise - the sort of love Spike described in Lovers Walks (Buffy 3:8) "You're not friends. You'll never be friends. You'll be in love till it kills you both. You'll fight, and you'll shag, and you'll hate each other till it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends. Love isn't brains, children, it's blood...blood screaming inside you to work its will."

That's not at all what I get from Omelia, where Owen seems to have given up. Amelia isn't Cristina, much like Riggs isn't Derek, and they'll never measure up. So I can definitely see Owen feeling that he's already lost anyway, he can't have what he wants, fine, he'll take what he can get, even if it's not much. Since it's his own fault that he lost Cristina, it's not unreasonable to imagine that he blames himself and feels he doesn't deserve to be happy.

[Deanie87]

6 hours ago, dr pepper said:

Prediction: Alex goes to prison. Prison has a riot. Alex does something heroic. Alex gets paroled. Parole comes with serious probation, with restrictions on his movement. He'll be Doctor Anklet all next season.

Taking this over to the spoilers/speculation thread.

[OtterMommy]

9 hours ago, Starscream said:

So a Chief of Surgery isn't the person to go to in order to make adjustments to your pension plan?

Word.  

Apparently Bailey has HR powers as well....

[Daisy]

2 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Word.  

Apparently Bailey has HR powers as well....

which is why - how this hospital doesn't have a CHIEF. OF. STAFF blows my mind. (though I truly shouldn't get my hospital management tips from General Hospital to be honest). but  the chief of staff on GH is more admin. He's the one who works with HR + the board and doesn't go into surgeries unless he has to. why not install a person like that.

Why Bailey was in surgery all day during a disaster when it is shown the the CoS is the one running shot gun is beyond me. 

[Greysaddict]

23 hours ago, izabella said:

Totally agree that Jo's story is too much, and makes absolutely NO logical sense at all.  None.  She was a homeless teen who managed to go to college (since they don't let you into med school otherwise!) and get married and then ran off and changed her name?  So is her college degree in her old name and she magically got into med school under her new name despite not having a college degree in her new name?  Or did she marry abusive husband as a teenager and ran away and then changed her name and went to college without having a high school degree or any records in her new name? 

BAD, BAD writing.

I agree, there is really no logical way this all makes sense so I just let the whole thing slide in my mind.  I think the only possible way they can salvage Jo's backstory is to have her be in a witness protection program.  Meaning she really was homeless and put herself through college, then married the abusive husband at a young age, went into witness protection as "Jo Wilson" and then went to med school.  It's a stretch but its the only way any of her backstory makes any sense without a complete retcon.    I'm sure they will come up with something way more convoluted and nonsensical since the writer care so little about her character to begin with.

[Sarnia]

I have a question that is not directly episode-related, although it came from the numerous scenes of Richard and Maggie together. Outside of Meredith (and probably the people who live with her) and Richard, who knows that Maggie is the biological daughter of Ellis Grey and Richard? Is it widely known across the hospital, or still mostly a secret? I can't remember.

[readster]

43 minutes ago, Greysaddict said:

I agree, there is really no logical way this all makes sense so I just let the whole thing slide in my mind.  I think the only possible way they can salvage Jo's backstory is to have her be in a witness protection program.  Meaning she really was homeless and put herself through college, then married the abusive husband at a young age, went into witness protection as "Jo Wilson" and then went to med school.  It's a stretch but its the only way any of her backstory makes any sense without a complete retcon.    I'm sure they will come up with something way more convoluted and nonsensical since the writer care so little about her character to begin with.

But then who is her husband? A mobster? FBI Top 10 most wanted list. Guy who tried being a drug lord in a small town like the father in: My One and Only? Because then Jo getting married would not have been a problem, because the FBI would have destroyed those records of her being married at all. Then it would make the storyline make even less sense. Plus remember, her original reason was because Alex would either go out and kill her husband or try to get a divorce from him and "She couldn't let that happen." No matter how much you look at it, nothing makes sense as much as why Bailey is handling HR problems or why Owen had to cut expenses that would have been the CFO's job or why Richard created the Mercy West merger. Nothing has ever made sense in the Grey's word on how office and chain of command really works in a medical profession... at all.

[WhosThatGirl]

Also it retcons a lot of little moments: when Alex assumed she was rich because she had a fancy watch and then Jo told her story of her professor and how she was the only who supported her and gave her the watch or something. I don't know. 

[timimouse]

20 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Also it retcons a lot of little moments: when Alex assumed she was rich because she had a fancy watch and then Jo told her story of her professor and how she was the only who supported her and gave her the watch or something. I don't know. 

Maybe that was all part of her story of her "new" life? I dunno.... I agree with the sentiments here, that this story is just too unbelievable. I have seen retcons in this and other shows that I can overlook some minute details and get on board with but this one is too blatantly obvious. I want to love this story, but the inconsistencies are slapping us in the face from all sides. Get to it together team. Seriously. 

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, Sarnia said:

I have a question that is not directly episode-related, although it came from the numerous scenes of Richard and Maggie together. Outside of Meredith (and probably the people who live with her) and Richard, who knows that Maggie is the biological daughter of Ellis Grey and Richard? Is it widely known across the hospital, or still mostly a secret? I can't remember.

Last season there was that episode where DeLuca kept talking to Richard about the woman he was dating because he didn't know he was Maggie's biological father. So, it wasn't widely known back then. I can't remember if anyone else found out after DeLuca did.

[OtterMommy]

3 hours ago, Sarnia said:

I have a question that is not directly episode-related, although it came from the numerous scenes of Richard and Maggie together. Outside of Meredith (and probably the people who live with her) and Richard, who knows that Maggie is the biological daughter of Ellis Grey and Richard? Is it widely known across the hospital, or still mostly a secret? I can't remember.

Well, they know Maggie is Meredith's sister and they know that Ellis and Richard had a thing and, well, there is a family resemblance between Richard and Maggie so I'm sure everyone knows.

Edited November 20, 2016 by OtterMommy

[Deanie87]

3 hours ago, readster said:

But then who is her husband? A mobster? FBI Top 10 most wanted list. Guy who tried being a drug lord in a small town like the father in: My One and Only? Because then Jo getting married would not have been a problem, because the FBI would have destroyed those records of her being married at all. Then it would make the storyline make even less sense. Plus remember, her original reason was because Alex would either go out and kill her husband or try to get a divorce from him and "She couldn't let that happen." No matter how much you look at it, nothing makes sense as much as why Bailey is handling HR problems or why Owen had to cut expenses that would have been the CFO's job or why Richard created the Mercy West merger. Nothing has ever made sense in the Grey's word on how office and chain of command really works in a medical profession... at all.

There are several agencies that offer ways that domestic violence victims can get new identities.  I don't know how that works on a federal level, but its almost like a "witness protection" for domestic violence victims (and victims of sex trafficking).  Not that I expect Grey's will put even that much effort into explaining any of the logistics or the timeline, but it is possible.  Its all really just a google search away.

ETA - It would be nice if they did explain that Jo did do something like that as they could do some kind of PSA after the episode, as they have done before.  They have done it for illness storylines, among others.  This would be a perfect topic to get that extra "Shondaland attention."

Edited November 20, 2016 by Deanie87

[TVForever]

13 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Well, they know Maggie is Meredith's sister and they know that Ellis and Richard had a thing and, well, there is a family resemblance between Richard and Maggie so I'm sure everyone knows.

Is it widely known about Ellis and Richard? I thought that was pretty much a "secret" between Meredith and Richard. I'm not sure that anyone knows about the connection between Richard and Maggie. It could have been a much bigger story, but for some reason, it's been dropped for now.

[Scatterbrained]

Regarding Richard and Maggie, all I can remember is an old friend of Richard's coming in as a patient and calling him "Bumpy".  Maggie was assisting and there was awkwardness because I think the friend asked Richard if he had any kids and Richard didn't quite know what to answer.  The episode more or less ended with Richard telling the friend about a child out of infidelity and then told Maggie that if she wanted to tell people she was his daughter it would be fine, mighty fine with him, indeed.

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, TVForever said:

Is it widely known about Ellis and Richard? I thought that was pretty much a "secret" between Meredith and Richard. I'm not sure that anyone knows about the connection between Richard and Maggie. It could have been a much bigger story, but for some reason, it's been dropped for now.

They haven't talked about it in a while, but I thought it was pretty much an open secret. Plus, Meredith is a walking ball of drama with no filter so the possibility that she could have kept this somewhat a secret for years is pretty laughable.

We DO know that these people know:
Richard
Meredith
Maggie
Amelia
Alex

Given that, it is probably safe to assume that Owen, Catherine (unless her marriage to Richard is even more questionable than we already know it is), and possibly Jo know.

But, still, I have it in my mind that it is pretty much out there now....

[Greysaddict]

15 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

There are several agencies that offer ways that domestic violence victims can get new identities.  I don't know how that works on a federal level, but its almost like a "witness protection" for domestic violence victims (and victims of sex trafficking).  Not that I expect Grey's will put even that much effort into explaining any of the logistics or the timeline, but it is possible.  Its all really just a google search away.

ETA - It would be nice if they did explain that Jo did do something like that as they could do some kind of PSA after the episode, as they have done before.  They have done it for illness storylines, among others.  This would be a perfect topic to get that extra "Shondaland attention."

Yes, this is exactly what I had in mind.  Again, there are still tons of holes and retconning happening but I think its the best they are going do be able to do after pulling the secret marriage/name change out of thin air.  

33 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

They haven't talked about it in a while, but I thought it was pretty much an open secret. Plus, Meredith is a walking ball of drama with no filter so the possibility that she could have kept this somewhat a secret for years is pretty laughable.

We DO know that these people know:
Richard
Meredith
Maggie
Amelia
Alex

Given that, it is probably safe to assume that Owen, Catherine (unless her marriage to Richard is even more questionable than we already know it is), and possibly Jo know.

But, still, I have it in my mind that it is pretty much out there now....

I'm pretty sure Bailey knows also.  Wasn't there something where she thought there was something romantically happening between Maggie and Webber and then he told her?  Also, DeLuca knows for sure.  I'd wager that Catherine, Jackson and April know as well.  I think we are supposed to assume its well known amongst "our" doctors without coming out and saying it. 

[bikebrh]

  12 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Word.  

Apparently Bailey has HR powers as well....

which is why - how this hospital doesn't have a CHIEF. OF. STAFF blows my mind. (though I truly shouldn't get my hospital management tips from General Hospital to be honest). but  the chief of staff on GH is more admin. He's the one who works with HR + the board and doesn't go into surgeries unless he has to. why not install a person like that.

Why Bailey was in surgery all day during a disaster when it is shown the the CoS is the one running shot gun is beyond me. 

I believe that there is a separate Chief of Staff...He's that guy played by the X-files Mitch Pilleggi that appears on the show once or twice a year.

[DearEvette]

16 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

There are several agencies that offer ways that domestic violence victims can get new identities.  I don't know how that works on a federal level, but its almost like a "witness protection" for domestic violence victims (and victims of sex trafficking).  Not that I expect Grey's will put even that much effort into explaining any of the logistics or the timeline, but it is possible.  Its all really just a google search away.

But are those legal ways?  I have heard of underground organizations that hook people up with new identities: IDs, passports, credit cards, SSNs etc.  But these aren't legal.

And then comes the question of at what point did that fake identity come into play?  After high school? During  college or after? During medical school or after?  She came in as a first year intern so would she even have had time between graduating medical school and starting at SG? 

See this is the problem with making Jo WIlson not her real name because proof of identity reaches back in time.  I looked at the requirements for obtaining a medical license in Washington State and the documentation you're required to provide is like octopus tentacles, they are everywhere: College transcripts, American Medical Association profile, A national medical examination, physical and mental health certifications, a work history chronology from the time they graduated medical school -- any break 30 days or more must be accounted for.  And you have to renew your license every two years. So it isn't simple at all.  If she did not undergo a legal name change, then she would have had to either create a whole fake identity from the ground up (presumably before medical school) and use that for everything or she needed to steal someone else's.

It would have been smarter to make Jo Wilson a legal name that she got changed in a state that allowed her to seal the record and then for her to go back and put privacy blocks on all her school records so it breaks the chain if someone is trying to follow her.

[Daisy]

7 minutes ago, bikebrh said:

I believe that there is a separate Chief of Staff...He's that guy played by the X-files Mitch Pilleggi that appears on the show once or twice a year.

I think he was part of the old board, he's not been seen since the shooting (or at the very least since the plane crash).  but he could be :)

[readster]

59 minutes ago, Daisy said:

I think he was part of the old board, he's not been seen since the shooting (or at the very least since the plane crash).  but he could be :)

Yes, he was the Chief of Staff of the old board and what's her name from The Profiler and Nip/Tuck was apparently the CFO. Who had played so many corners the no CFO would even have a hand in. Ok, formerly working in health care, here is how a hospital Staff of Directors work: 

 

CEO -Usually the head of the hospital

Hospital VP- Second in command and fulfills when the CEO can't.

Chairman of the Board- Usually voted in to handle operations of the Hospital, can be the CEO or other people in or outside the Staff of Directors.

CFO-Handles the Money.

Chairman of Security- In charge of security and chain of command when codes are called. 

Staff Controller- Workers under the CFO and makes sure bills are paid and money is flowing right, usually the Director of Operations.

Chairman of Staff-In charge of Staff personal and workers. Usually just above HR director of HR Vice President depending on how HR is set up.

Chief of Emergency Services- Usually a doctor or former doctor who is in charge of daily running of emergency medicine.

Chief of Surgery- directors over surgery or doctors in training unless there is a Director of Medical teaching.

Chief of OB- Rare, but in charge of OBGYN services .

Head or Chief of Oncology- Cancer Services.

Clinical Chairs or Rotation- In charge of clinical or PEDs depending on the size of the hospital or medial establishment.

Chief of Housing Services- Cleaning, stabilizing, ect. usually custodial and cleaning and electrical services. (most services of electrical or mechanical are serviced out for money saving).

Director of Hospitality/Food Services- In charge of food operations for the hospital and staff under them in food services.

Stores Director- Inventory and supplies for hospitals can vary depending on medical establishment.

Volunteers Director- Hospitals have many, many volunteers, those services make up from gift shop to just greeting people.

Psych Director- Depending if hospital has a mental health suite or wing. Usually has over 8 years of professional services, board certified and usually in charge from counselors to interns of mental health. Also has basic first aid training in case of emergencies.

Director of Nursing Services- Handles nurses, CNAs, etc and assignments.

Call Center Manager- Handles calls and transfer services.

Laboratory Director- Handles tests and chemical results and staff over them.

Pharmacy Manger/Director- Handling of medicines and prescriptions usually have 10 staff members under them and assistant managers or crew leaders.

That would be the main ones, depending on services, some can have heads of: neurology, ENT, Ordpedics, ect. Depends on the hospital and patient specialities and money. 

[Gladrags]

5 hours ago, bikebrh said:

I believe that there is a separate Chief of Staff...He's that guy played by the X-files Mitch Pilleggi that appears on the show once or twice a year.

He was the chairman of the board of directors before the plane crash. Boards of directors hire the CEO, make policy, oversee finances,  and set direction for the hospital as a whole. Boards of directors do not manage personnel, train doctors, or tell anyone other than the CEO what to do.

And certainly no one board member can do anything on his or her own. 

Didn't we have this conversation before, when we were discussing how Catherine overstepped when concocting this coup against Richard in the first place? 

Edited November 20, 2016 by Gladrags

[readster]

14 hours ago, Gladrags said:

He was the chairman of the board of directors before the plane crash. Boards of directors hire the CEO, make policy, oversee finances,  and set direction for the hospital as a whole. Boards of directors do not manage personnel, train doctors, or tell anyone other than the CEO what to do.

And certainly no one board member can do anything on his or her own. 

Didn't we have this conversation before, when we were discussing how Catherine overstepped when concocting this coup against Richard in the first place? 

Yep and as I explained above, there is a chain of command and even the big wigs can't do it all on their own.

[jaync]

Quote

Also, I found it odd that Arizona would be in this weird flirtation, ultimately agreeing to a drink with Minnick, only to be seen a few scenes later firmly on Richard's side of things.

I'm hoping Arizona is just playing Minnick, or at best, they'll only have a ONS.

Quote

Also it retcons a lot of little moments: when Alex assumed she was rich because she had a fancy watch and then Jo told her story of her professor and how she was the only who supported her and gave her the watch or something. I don't know.

The story about the professor could still be true, without there having to be any kind of retcon. It could also be that the professor and the husband are the same person.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Walls Come Tumbling Down In Grey's Anatomy's Volatile Fall Finale

An apartment building collapses, but the tenants aren't the only ones whose lives turn to rubble.

[taanja]

On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 11:15 AM, kungpaopanda said:

What if Jo's entire orphan backstory is just a made up part of the Jo Wilson persona? Like maybe she has a loving family somewhere that is wondering what happened to her.

Jo is a lying liar who lies. I have long past stopped caring (if I ever did---she is an annoying character) anything about her. She drags Alex and everyone around her into her web of lies. When she told Alex-- don't blame yourself when/if I leave -- I was like-- god! just go! just do it! But alas. Poor Alex can't be that lucky. And neither can we.

I have basically come to the point where the only characters I still love are Meredith and Alex (and Richard to some extent)

This was one of the "mess" episodes that try my patience to the end of it's limit. The Drama! The Tragedy! The Disaster!

Stephanie (a surgeon) running through the ER with bags of blood--say what? Arizona a pediatric surgeon who specializes in what? fetal surgery -- is out in the hallway going bed to bed checking on patients??? say what???  THIS would NEVER happen.

All I can say is thank god for Big Bang Theory, This Old House and X Files on other channels so I can flip away when the nonsense gets too think on Greys.

[LisaM]

Loved the scene where Maggie walked Richard into the conference room to find the doctors in a meeting supporting him. That was terrific. Just wait till Richard finds out that Catherine was complicit in this whole endeavor to replace him.

So glad for the little screen time for Amelia.

Loved the Alex/Meredith scenes.

How did Jo get pass the boards, get a license to practice, get into medical school, residency program, etc... under a fake name without presumably providing a real social security number and giving other forms of ID?

[Deanie87]

Quote

How did Jo get pass the boards, get a license to practice, get into medical school, residency program, etc... under a fake name without presumably providing a real social security number and giving other forms of ID?

Quote

 

That's just it, we have no idea. Jo's backstory gets hinted at or started and then added onto without context but actual facts and answers are never given. Which leads only to speculation, in which Jo never, ever gets the benefit of the doubt. In the end, the story of a woman escaping an abusive husband and overcoming a ridiculously difficult childhood really only matters as it pertains to Alex, with a generous side of Meredith and a slight sprinkling of DeLuca. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by Deanie87

[Ohwell]

I'm really getting sick of looking at Jo's sad face.  I don't give a damn about her.

[mojito]

Quote

Yes, this is exactly what I had in mind.  Again, there are still tons of holes and retconning happening but I think its the best they are going do be able to do after pulling the secret marriage/name change out of thin air.  

They'll do the easy thing and kill her off. 

If you ever watch shows like "American Greed", you'd know of all the disgraced, fired, and false-identity doctors who have had senior positions in hospitals. They get hired even though they've been stripped of credentials in other states. It happens, so Jo's story doesn't seem to be much more of a stretch. I can easily see Jo getting through school on a false identity and then build her resume through degrees and experience. I can't bother myself with dissecting the sequence of events in her past, or even speculating, but yes, I can see a path to get to where Jo is now.