S01.E07: The Best Washing Machine in the World

[ClareWalks]

2 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

As much as I hate to defend Toby, he was perfectly happy not to order any dessert, but Kate repeatedly insisted that he should, so she had no right to be upset when he eventually did.

Agree, I just think he could have picked a dessert that wasn't ginormous. Although I am now wondering if Kate is trying to sabotage Toby's diet because he is much more successful at losing weight. This relationship looks crappier every time I see it!

[jhlipton]

19 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

I disagree. Good teams give up sacks too.   And a "max protect" scheme would most likely not leave any receivers open, which would mean Kevin is not getting sacked but is also not completing passes--and that is not helpful for a scout watching. 

My knowledge of football is scant, but aren't there at least three players (left, right and center) protecting the quarterback?  I have never seen a a defensive player just run right at the quarterback with absolutely no blocking!

12 players -- 10 not counting the center and the quarterback.  If 5 run routes (that's typical for a passing play, right?), that leaves 5 to protect the "pocket".  If they were running a running play, pretty much everyone stays back, to run or to block.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that just didn't look right to me.

[ClareWalks]

26 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

My knowledge of football is scant, but aren't there at least three players (left, right and center) protecting the quarterback?  I have never seen a a defensive player just run right at the quarterback with absolutely no blocking!

12 players -- 10 not counting the center and the quarterback.  If 5 run routes (that's typical for a passing play, right?), that leaves 5 to protect the "pocket".  If they were running a running play, pretty much everyone stays back, to run or to block.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that just didn't look right to me.

11 players - the QB, generally a runningback, 4 receivers/tight ends, and 5 offensive linemen to protect the quarterback and runningback (including the center). Part of the defense's job is tricking the offensive line into going the wrong direction in an attempt to block. This can open up holes for the linebackers to attack.

[SlackerInc]

It's true that the dessert was probably "shareable", but as a guy formerly at least as big as Toby, I remember ordering, and devouring, "shareable" items many a time.  (As noted upthread, guys lose weight faster, due to a combination of less efficient digestion and greater muscle mass, which actively burns calories even at rest; this also means we can eat a LOT.)

6 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I wonder if your main limitations in this regard are your beliefs that these things are true.  Just food for thought, no pun intended!

It's a reasonable hypothesis, but I can assure you that I only got to this point after years of frustration with the results of more conventional approaches.

I mean, what you say could have merit on some deeper psychological level.  For instance, studies have shown that what differentiates the most elite Olympic gold winning type athletes from others who can't reach those heights is generally not a physical difference but a greater ability to tolerate and push through pain while training.

But just as it is rare to have that much psychological strength, I think the same applies to being able to overcome willpower weaknesses if you crave rich and fattening food.   And again, I would argue that the overwhelming statistics about weight loss success (which is to say the lack thereof) back me up on this supposition.

Edited November 22, 2016 by SlackerInc
Thought I was responding right below a post about desserts

[SlackerInc]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

11 players - the QB, generally a runningback, 4 receivers/tight ends, and 5 offensive linemen to protect the quarterback and runningback (including the center). Part of the defense's job is tricking the offensive line into going the wrong direction in an attempt to block. This can open up holes for the linebackers to attack.

Right, or the defensive line.  I see unblocked linemen sack QBs all the time.  Usually on replay of such plays, there are two offensive linemen on one defensive lineman, which leaves another unblocked.  Or it may have been a blitz, which is a kind of tricky move in which the defense sends almost everyone to rush the QB, gambling that they can get to him before he can take advantage of all the uncovered receivers.

I have to say, so far the football action on this show looks a lot more realistic than it ever did on Friday Night Lights, which is kind of sad when you think about it, LOL.

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I wonder if your main limitations in this regard are your beliefs that these things are true.  Just food for thought, no pun intended!

I'm more inclined to take a person's word for how they react and feel, they are, after all, the experts when it comes to their life.

[possibilities]

On 11/16/2016 at 11:15 AM, lawyergal said:

While yes, young Kevin is being a brat, I don't think it's fair to call him entitled, with a negative connotation. As between he and Randall in his family, they should be equals - and, they are "entitled" to equal treatment and love from their parents.

Kevin wanting equal love from his parents is reasonable, but taking it out on his brother, who has shown him nothing but love despite continual rejection, is where he was wrong. Moreover, we don't really see that his parents don't love him. What we see is that they were worrying about actual problems his siblings had, and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to trade in his easy life, buff bod, and white guy privilege for their issues.

And he's an adult now, not a toddler, and could reasonably be expected to have some perspective. In an earlier episode, he told Randall he hadn't been a good brother to him, but that awareness doesn't seem to have made a difference because he's still harboring bizarre and obnoxious resentment and acting like an entitled little shit. Who shows up at someone's home unannounced, and moves in despite having other options and despite that they don't seem to have so much as an actual guest room, and then stays even after being asked when they are leaving? Kevin comes across to me like a spoiled brat, not a wounded little bird.

Also, parents can be asked to love their kids unconditionally, but viewers don't have to, and in addition to adult Kevin being an entitled prick, young Kevin's behavior has been shown to be consistently callous and constantly cruel to Randall. We see that Randall and Kate got along fine, so it's not like there was no other model for Kevin to follow. Besides that, Kevin's behavior itself was making things worse because the more he shits on his brother, the more his parents will have to defend his brother. Kevin is reaping what he sows, and his willingness to make a racist comment about it even as an adult shows that it's not just that he felt entitled to equal love, but that he feels entitled to MORE than equal and didn't want to share at all. With the Manny, he didn't even want the role anymore, and he's still bitter that a BLACK man replaced him. Seriously? If it was a white guy, would he be bitter? I really hated Kevin this week. I thought his self-pity and entitlement was spewing like vomit out of his every orifice and pore.

He was the same way at his audition for the play. He insulted everyone there, had not done his homework on any level, was late, and thought he could just step right in despite no apparent idea how stage acting and TV filming differ-- seriously? Does that mean he is untrained and has been coasting on his looks all this time? It would explain a lot. He even told the director it was not his job to convince anyone of how he was feeling during a scene-- even an untrained actor should know that's kind of what acting is about, right?

Kevin is to me the ultimate in smug privilege, someone who's had an uncommonly easy life but thinks he's oppressed when the entire world does not revolve around him at all times, and no matter how badly he behaves, he believes he's a victim and nothing is ever his fault. And then when he's called on it, he turns on the charm and everyone forgives him.

On 11/16/2016 at 11:02 AM, topanga said:

Maybe it was as simple as Randall asking, "Is that the new Manny?" Knowing darn well that would upset Kevin. 

I don't think Randall said that, but even if he did, why would that upset Kevin? Kevin QUIT the show, it's not like he was fired. Moreover, it's a billboard. It's not reasonable to expect that Kevin won't see it, even if Randall doesn't point it out.

Kevin was not neglected. He did not lack for opportunity or affection. He rejected Randall since they were very young (as in the Webster incident). And he was not alone in the world. He even had a twin sister whose entire life revolved around him until recently. He didn't have the life skills to pack his own shit or call movers, or deal with an ill-advised hook up, and had to melt down and interrupt Kate on a date because he couldn't get through the day without his hand being held. Honestly, he doesn't seem to have even tried to grow up at all yet. I thought he was making the effort when he fired Kate and moved to NY, but he moved into Randall's house immediately, and needed his co-star to tutor him on acting basics, because he couldn't handle a posh hotel room or finding an acting class on his own.

People manage to talk long distance all the time. Phone, Skype, email, letters, these modes of communication have been used by many to conduct all kinds of relationships, plus both guys have money for travel if they want to hash things out in person. Living on opposite sides of the country doesn't mean you can't work out your issues with someone. It just means you aren't forced to, because it's easier to avoid.

Whew. This stuff really got to me this week. I don't always hate Kevin this much, but this week, he was way beyond my tolerance.

On 11/17/2016 at 0:55 PM, LydiaMoon1 said:

My one big complaint is Kate’s storyline.  Note to Hollywood: Fat people do occasionally think about something other than food.  We have families, and careers, and social lives, and problems that have absolutely nothing to do with food.  Geez!  They way they’re portraying Kate is ridiculous.

Yes!!!

RE: upthread comment about avoiding saturated fat (I tried to quote it but something's not working): I've been reading a lot of evidence lately that even saturated fat can be fine. AuthorityNutrition.com has many articles about the latest research in nutrition (in easy to understand language) and has some interesting articles about saturated fat, for anyone interested in pursuing this subject more. I ate a ketogenic diet for several months, to kickstart control of my diabetes when first diagnosed, and it's definitely possible to lose weight eating a shocking amount of fat, including saturated fat. I lost 35 lbs in a few months, without being hungry-- and it's stayed off even though I'm no longer keto. In short, the more carbs you eat, the higher your insulin tends to go (for normal people and people with type 2 diabetes; not true for type 1 diabetics), and insulin makes you hungry and also tells your body to store fat. So it's really carbs, not fat, that are the culprit with weight gain. Also, most forms of saturated fat have been exonerated with respect to heart disease, so enjoy your coconut oil, butter, and sour cream-- it's actually good for most people (some people have a genetic variation that does make it worth being cautious about, but it's OK for the majority of folks).

RE Randall being resistant to Kevin while Kevin pursues him (another quote that disappeared): Kevin was shitty to him their entire time growing up. Why would Randall be eager to spend time with Kevin now, or watch his tv show, which even Kevin thinks is crap to the point that he quit mid-contract to get away from it? I think it's easy to feel like "so, all our lives I reached out to you and you rejected me, and now you want to invade my home and buddy up to me like none of that mattered, and you won't even let me jog in peace?" Randall does seem ambivalent, but I think it's because of the pattern of reaching out and being stomped on, and all the effort going one way for so long.

On 11/17/2016 at 0:39 AM, TomServo said:

I wonder how Jack got his vehicle home from the game since they arrived separately but left in one vehicle.

That was bothering me, too!

On 11/17/2016 at 10:41 AM, jeansheridan said:

I do think it was striking how charming he was with Randell' s neighbors when it sounds like Randell feels like an outsider.  Kevin is confident people will like him in general.  He moves through the world assured his handsome face and charm will smooth the way.  He is also pleasant but the ease is striking.  Randell always seems uneasy except inside his home or work despite being handsome and pleasant as well.  

That's about skin privilege, if you ask me. Of course Kevin expects to be well-received. Randall is followed around in stores as though expected to steal. It affects how guarded a person does or does not become. Add that to Kevin being a TV star, which I'm sure means he's used to getting a hero's welcome wherever. But I think Randall is pleasant, and Kevin is obnoxious and expects TOO MUCH welcome-- as at his audition where he was late, rude, sucking up all the air, and not reading social cues or even accepting direction from the people who were there to give it and seemed to have no idea what an asshole he was being and expected to be treated like the production was his personal playground, not like a job interview in which he was actually making a terrible impression and giving a shitty audition.

On 11/17/2016 at 11:44 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Randall finally suggested a compromise, which is good of him, but the fact that Rebecca couldn't even come up with the solution herself and immediately took Randall's side is just one of many reasons why Kevin may resent Randall as well as Rebecca. 

I think it's even more evidence that Kevin was hellbent on blaming Randall, when Randall is the one trying to fix things! ANY of the three of them could have suggested studying elsewhere, but Randall is the only one to think of fit. I get that Kevin wanted it to be dark so he could sleep. He should also have been able to see that his brother was doing homework. Instead of throwing something and whining, he could have said "The light is bothering me; can you do that somewhere else, so I can sleep?" Randall seems to be the only one in the room who's actually capable of thinking clearly and solving a problem without acrimony. And then he brings Kevin cookies to try to smooth it over even more. Kevin isn't trying at all, here, as far as I can tell. We saw Randall go to Kate for advice on why Kevin hates him. Did we see Kevin to go Kate for help figuring out how to make things better? Kevin wants everything his way, and not to have to make any effort. We've seen that over and over again, in his personal life and at work, as an adult and as a kid. It's annoying to me and it's why he seems like a spoiled entitled brat.

I think early on, in the first episode I think, they established that Randall did ask Rebecca about his birth father, and she claimed not to know anything-- not when he was a kid, but when he was older. So it's not just that she didn't tell him, but that she denied knowing anything. I think that whatever the typical arrangements were when the adoption happened, withholding information when Randall was older is way different than doing so when he was a small child. It will be interesting to see how Randall reacts.

[Dowel Jones]

23 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

and that is not helpful for a scout watching. 

I wonder if the untold story there was that Randall ended up getting a good review from a scout, and went on to college on a scholarship and a good job, while Kevin found his destiny in acting (which, apparently, was a good job, too).

[SlackerInc]

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

That dude is my bud, I don't think he took offense.  ; )  I just wanted to plant a seed.  A lot of people react and feel 100% one way all the time and they're right that that is their only option, until they conceive and believe the thought that they're able to react differently.  Both things are true at once.  Whether you believe you can or you can't, you're right.  Argue for your limitations and they're yours.  

You're right, I didn't.   :)

However, although most people who know me would generally call me an optimist, I don't actually believe in the idea that if you believe in something strongly enough, you can do anything you set your mind to.   As awful as it probably sounds to a lot of people, I actually try to counteract this message with my kids because I know they are getting it all the time at school and at activities and so on.

@possibilities,  I think you and I have seen the same research on saturated fats, but I interpret it a little bit differently than you do. They are definitely not nearly as bad as they have been made out to be for many years, and if it's a choice between saturated fats and processed carbs, you should definitely go with the saturated fats. But my understanding is that they are still not nearly as healthy as the fats found in things like walnuts, wild salmon, and extra virgin olive oil.

The caveat to my caveat is that specifically with dairy, you should not eat low-fat dairy, especially if you are a woman trying to get pregnant.

To tie this into the show, I hope (as someone said upthread) that Kate is getting good nutritional advice and eating a Mediterranean diet and avoiding the low-fat dairy, since she mentioned wanting to have a child and it's already more difficult for obese women to conceive.

[Tiger]

10 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I wonder if your main limitations in this regard are your beliefs that these things are true.  Just food for thought, no pun intended!  

I thought the dessert looked gross but if he'd been eating a terrific slice of pizza with a frosty mug of beer, my knees would've been weak if I was at all depriving myself.  The chocolate looked almost like it was black gum or rubber or something, to get that stretchiness.  

All the righteous indignation at Rebecca leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  The details of Randall's adoption are none of Beth's business, in my opinion.  I don't know a lot about adoption but I believe adoptive parents arrange closed adoptions all the time, in which they know the identity of the birth parent(s) but the child never does, and the birth parent doesn't get to know the kid.  That seems to be pretty much the case here.  It's Rebecca's choice and her right to specify the details and is probably the most normal sort of adoption.  I guess the difference is Rebecca never revealed to Randall that she knew anything about his birth parents but she had very valid reasons.    And it was easy enough for him to find William as an adult so what's the big deal?  If he didn't choose to seek him out until this late in his adult life, that's his own fault.  

I think what Rebecca was completelly justified and Randall has no right or reason to be mad at her, but at the same time it is 100% Beth's business as Randall is her husband and the father of her children.  

It's not like Beth hired a private investigator to investigate Rebecca and then water-boarded her.  This secret was dropped in her lap and she every right to an explanation from Rebecca AND regardless of that explanation, if Rebecca wont tell William then she must.  

I would have done the exact same thing in any similar situation.

[theatremouse]

11 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I don't know a lot about adoption but I believe adoptive parents arrange closed adoptions all the time, in which they know the identity of the birth parent(s) but the child never does, and the birth parent doesn't get to know the kid.  That seems to be pretty much the case here.

What you just described does not correspond to my experience with the phrase "closed adoption". The adoptive parents would likely know some general background on the birth parent(s), such as enthnicity and possibly if the parent included it, some family medical history but in many cases not even that. They would not know the person's identity. If the adoptive parents know the identity of the birth parents, even if both sides agree to no contact, that's a partially-open adoption.

10 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

We don't yet know that he did not choose to seek his biological parents out for the first time when we saw him do it, but even if that was his first attempt, getting it from the horse's mouth rather than a detective would be preferable to me.  The way it looks now is that she was possibly dodging a hard conversation, when coming out with it would have been better for Randall, especially if she knew he was longing for this information, which we have yet to see. 

I might be remembering wrong, but I thought it was strongly implied earlier that Rebecca knew he was looking. She may not have known he was "longing" for a long time, but she knew he looked. Didn't she have a line in an earlier episode where she actually said something to the effect of "if I could've helped, I would've"? Unless I totally misremembered that, she's not just in lie of omission territory. She straight up lied to his face. It's one thing if you have a closed adoption and don't know more than a general description, or do know and choose not to discuss it with your adopted child until/unless they ask (potentially at an age when you deem it appropriate/safe). It's very different for the son to ask, and respond with "I have no information beyond drug addicts+fire station" when in fact you met the dude, know his name, and where he at some point lived. She even potentially could've (once he were an adult) admitted to knowing some details while still omitting the meeting; she could've made up another means of obtaining that info. I'm not saying she wasn't well-intentioned, or still conflicted after many years and just not knowing what to do, but there's a difference about how she lied that is harsh.

[Crs97]

Kevin and Randall's light fight made me laugh because two of my boys just had the same discussion; one needs a lamp on and the other wants it pitch black.  I thought Kevin had fallen asleep while Randall was working and Kevin got mad when he woke up to see the light on.  I didn't think Rebecca favored Randall; Kevin talked about why the light had to be off and she explained why to Randall it had to be on (in a "the world does not revolve around you" manner).  I also know there were some posts complaining about her handling of the Rubiks cube in an earlier episode. I didn't have a problem there either.  She was in the process of taking the Rubiks cube and giving it back to Kevin when she noticed that Randall had fixed it. She was incredulously asking him if he had solved the puzzle  when jack came in with the pool idea. She didn't have a chance to yell at Randall then.  I think she is getting a bad rap.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Kevin talked about why the light had to be off and she explained why to Randall it had to be on (in a "the world does not revolve around you" manner).

There was absolutely no reason the light "had" to be on in a shared bedroom at 2am on a school night. Both boys should have been sleeping, but if Rebecca was cool with Randall doing his homework at 2am, she should have insisted he do it in the kitchen, where there's a table for him to write at and where he wouldn't disturb anyone else's sleep. I can't believe that was even a discussion.

[SlackerInc]

@chocolatine Right?  I generally consider these writers to be pretty good at realism, but do they know how early (unfortunately) middle school starts?  Often at around 7:30 to 7:45 a.m.  So they're getting on that bus before 7 a.m., meaning they're pretty lucky if they can sleep as late as even 6 a.m.  If Randall was still working on his homework at 2 a.m., that doesn't bode well for getting to sleep before 3; therefore we're talking about three hours of sleep at best.  Whereas the National Sleep Foundation says "Based on current data, we think that most teens need on the order of 9-plus hours nightly".  So, one-third of that for Randall?!?  Just...no.

[HeyThere83]

8 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Kevin and Randall's light fight made me laugh because two of my boys just had the same discussion; one needs a lamp on and the other wants it pitch black.  I thought Kevin had fallen asleep while Randall was working and Kevin got mad when he woke up to see the light on.  I didn't think Rebecca favored Randall; Kevin talked about why the light had to be off and she explained why to Randall it had to be on (in a "the world does not revolve around you" manner).  I also know there were some posts complaining about her handling of the Rubiks cube in an earlier episode. I didn't have a problem there either.  She was in the process of taking the Rubiks cube and giving it back to Kevin when she noticed that Randall had fixed it. She was incredulously asking him if he had solved the puzzle  when jack came in with the pool idea. She didn't have a chance to yell at Randall then.  I think she is getting a bad rap.

Jack is very charming, but this is bothering me a lot too. Hopefully there will be more to it than that.

[Court]

Our sixth grade starts at 9:15. The middle school starts at 7:45. 

 

Many many people tried to get them to change the high school and middle school to start later by 30 minutes. The compromise was they moved it to 15 minutes later. 

[jhlipton]

16 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

I have to say, so far the football action on this show looks a lot more realistic than it ever did on Friday Night Lights, which is kind of sad when you think about it, LOL.

LOL

[SlackerInc]

1 hour ago, Court said:

Our sixth grade starts at 9:15. The middle school starts at 7:45. 

 

Many many people tried to get them to change the high school and middle school to start later by 30 minutes. The compromise was they moved it to 15 minutes later. 

What twisted person ever thought it made sense to have teenagers, who naturally become more nocturnal than at any other stage of their lives, have to start school earlier than younger kids and earlier than adults usually start work?  It's insane.

[izabella]

Lol at all the light fights at night! 

I have two words:  eye masks.

[Lady Calypso]

16 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

What twisted person ever thought it made sense to have teenagers, who naturally become more nocturnal than at any other stage of their lives, have to start school earlier than younger kids and earlier than adults usually start work?  It's insane.

It makes no sense, I agree. I've personally brought this up to my parents. I remember having to wake up every morning at 6:30am to get ready for school for 8:05. And that's me, even as a girl, who never wore makeup and just had to get up, eat breakfast, get dressed and brush my teeth before leaving. I remember friends who had to wake up as early as 5:45 to get themselves ready in the morning. 

[Crs97]

When I was a student we all went 8-3:30.  In high school marching band started at 6:30 am so definitely early mornings, and I am a night owl.  If I had homework to do, I would have been up at 2 am to finish it.  Now my middle and high schoolers go 7:45 to 2:30.  It seems to be sports and after-school activities related so they can still get home while it's light.  I don't love it.

[PRgal]

3 hours ago, Court said:

Our sixth grade starts at 9:15. The middle school starts at 7:45. 

 

Many many people tried to get them to change the high school and middle school to start later by 30 minutes. The compromise was they moved it to 15 minutes later. 

7:45?  What time do they get out?  I'm always amazed at the early start times American schools have.  Up here, we typically start at 8:15-8:30, sometimes 9.  We get out at 3:30ish.  At least when I was in school back in the 90s.  Of course, that's just regular classes.  Those with sports or arts commitments sometimes arrive at school at 7:15 (I did - for choir).

[Court]

59 minutes ago, PRgal said:

7:45?  What time do they get out?  I'm always amazed at the early start times American schools have.  Up here, we typically start at 8:15-8:30, sometimes 9.  We get out at 3:30ish.  At least when I was in school back in the 90s.  Of course, that's just regular classes.  Those with sports or arts commitments sometimes arrive at school at 7:15 (I did - for choir).

7:45 gets out at 2:30. The 9:15 gets out at 4:15.

Elementary starts at 8:30 and gets out at 3:15.  The move to later start times shortened the day which I was thrilled about. I really wanted it to be shortened by 30 minutes but it didn't happen.

[SlackerInc]

14 hours ago, PRgal said:

7:45?  What time do they get out?  I'm always amazed at the early start times American schools have.  Up here, we typically start at 8:15-8:30, sometimes 9.  We get out at 3:30ish.  At least when I was in school back in the 90s.  Of course, that's just regular classes.  Those with sports or arts commitments sometimes arrive at school at 7:15 (I did - for choir).

Yeah, I mean 8:15 is only a half hour later (though every bit helps).  But it particularly surprises me that there wasn't a psychological barrier the first time someone suggested starting at "seven-anything", even if it's 7:55.  That just really stands out like a sore thumb, as looking really early.  There can't be many adult jobs that start before 8 (that is, within the hour or two before 8; not including "graveyard shift" and the like).

[LeafontheWind]

I am currently teaching high schoolers and we start at 7:15.  The thinking behind this decision is that when the high school gets out earlier, it allows time for extra curricular activities after school and gives older siblings who drive a chance to pick up younger siblings who start  later (8:30) and therefore get out right around the time practices and club meetings are ending. That all makes sense on paper, but the first class of the day is a beating for everyone.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 11/16/2016 at 10:49 AM, random chance said:

I would think so, because at her weight and doing everything right the way she was, she should certainly have lost more than a pound and change. Just carrying around that much weight burns calories like crazy. I don't like that the show isn't even bothering to have her go to a doctor.

Yea, that's pissing me off, too. They keep making it all about food. 

And I don't quite understand the group meetings they attend. Is that a weight loss group or an overeaters' group? It seems like a combo of both. Sometimes people lump all those in together but they're not the same at all. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 11/16/2016 at 6:11 PM, movingtargetgal said:

I have had weight loss surgery and it did work in the short run.  Before and immediately after the surgery I did lose a great deal of weight.  However, I was only eating 600-800 calories a day.  I could not maintain that type of restricted diet.  A few years after the surgery my Lapband failed ( it turns out many of these devices are failing).  Last year I began having pain where my port was located and one night I spiked a 105 degree fever.  I was rush to the ER and told I had an abscess at the port site.  I was in emergency surgery for six hours and they removed the lapband, a four inch abscess and over a liter and a half of infected fluids.  The band had eroded into my stomach causing a hole in my stomach.  I almost died that day.  My surgeon told me that what I experienced is happening to more and more of his patients.  At my six week follow up he suggested I have another type of weight loss surgery.  I have debated doing it, however, I don't think I will.  I am just too scared.

Like Kate I have struggled with my weight and with my mother's issues about my weight all my life.  When I was 12 years old, my mother went to the extreme of taking me to an out of state diet doctor who for a fee and without any medical testing whatsoever would give you a 30 day supply of synthroid, water pills and an amphetamine. ( This screwed with my metabolism in a major way.) It was the only mother/daughter activity we ever did.  I can't wait to see how the writers deal with the struggles Kate and her mother will have about Kate's weight.  So many mothers and daughters go through this.  It truly is an emotional minefield.  If written well, it could help so many mothers and daughters.

So far I have been very disappointed in how Kate's story has been written.  Those dieting group scenes make me cringe.  I would love for Kate to find a group that focuses less on food (and the parceling out of crackers and cheez-its) and more on the emotional reasons why they need to self medicate with food.  What is going on emotionally with Kate that is causing her to harm herself.  Is it grief because of the death of her father?  Is it a way for her "win" the power struggle with her mother? Or, is it a combination?  When an alcoholic or drug addict stops using, underlying emotional issues rise to the surface.  What is going on with Kate emotionally that she self medicating by overeating?  So many people believe that if someone loses the weight their lives will be fixed and true happiness will be found.  It would be great to watch Kate go through the emotional journey of weight loss. 

Thank you for sharing your story about weight loss surgery. As more and more people consider surgery to be the best option, stories like yours need to be heard. 

I also had questions about the group that Kate and Toby attend. What exactly is the group supposed to be? Weight watchers type of group? Overeaters anon? It seems to me like they just threw in aspects of both and considered it,  as Kevin labeled it in the first episode, "fat class." 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 11/16/2016 at 2:01 PM, memememe76 said:

In Kevin's defence, how many times would he need to introduce Randall as his brother? They went to different schools. As kids, it's normally the parents who introduces the family. If Randall actually went to LA and attended a taping of The Manny, I would expect Kevin to have introduced Randall as his brother. 

Grammar: I thought Kevin was right in saying "Just you and me." Am I wrong? 

I think Kevin's statement was grammatically correct but I need to hear the whole sentence. 

I don't think an introduction is the only time Kevin would have referred to Randall as his brother. Even sticking up for Randall (which Kevin didn't), he would have told kids to lay off his brother or made some kind of reference to his brother. The fact that he didn't say the words or treat him like a brother is why Randall was so hurt. I do believe that both brothers carried these experiences into their adult lives.

On 11/16/2016 at 4:34 PM, saber5055 said:

As someone who is depressed by the lack of proper English in reality shows AND scripted shows, the best line of the night was Randall correcting Kevin's "Randall and me" to "Randall and I." I actually shouted YES! to my tv. Thank you, show writers. You have put yourselves head and shoulders above all other writing crews.

I don't remember the sentence but I thought Kevin's sentence was grammatically correct while Randall's correction was not. Does anyone know exactly what was said? 

Edited November 26, 2016 by love2lovebadtv

[breezy424]

School start times:  Economics - buses and working parents.  Most start times are spread out so that the high school students can be bused to school and then that same bus can turn around and pick up either middle school or elementary students.  They just voted to delay school starts in my district.  They have to raise taxes to add buses in order to accommodate this because they don't want elementary schools starting too late.  This really screws up working parents' schedules.  Even though it may cost more, IMO it's the right thing to do.

I don't understand the group meetings that Kate and Toby are going to as well.

[Kanena]

It's funny but I don't see Kate's story line as boring at all. I see a young woman who is trying to reestablish her life after going through a hard time. 

She and Kevin are both naturally co-dependant people, so it makes sense that after falling in love with her boss she would turn to Kev for support. 

Now she is trying to find her independence again, but ended up back with a needy man who she can be a needy woman with. It's tough to watch sometimes but it's real. On top of that Kevin continues to try to find emotional support from her. I doubt anyone in her family really respects that Kate needs to concentrate on herself, but instead sees her life as boring and her attention not being 100 percent on them as selfish.

[possibilities]

Kanena, that's an interesting perspective on Kate. I think I would find a story about her learning to take care of herself and not be at everyone else's beck and call interesting, but the way they've made it almost 100% about her weight is annoying to me. I was hopeful that when she stopped working for Kevin we would see other dimensions of her growth, but they just did the one job moment and then boomeranged right back to everything is about her weight.

[SlackerInc]

On 11/24/2016 at 4:33 PM, LeafontheWind said:

I am currently teaching high schoolers and we start at 7:15.

Oof, that's brutal.  I can't believe they can keep ratcheting this kind of thing earlier and earlier and not get pushback, from staff and parents at least even if no one cares what the kids say (which is sad).

[Tiger]

On 11/23/2016 at 1:03 PM, Crs97 said:

When I was a student we all went 8-3:30.  In high school marching band started at 6:30 am so definitely early mornings, and I am a night owl.  If I had homework to do, I would have been up at 2 am to finish it.  Now my middle and high schoolers go 7:45 to 2:30.  It seems to be sports and after-school activities related so they can still get home while it's light.  I don't love it.

When I was in high school class started at 7 on the dot and ended at 2, 1 on Wednesdays, to accomodate after school activities including work.  

IIRC, at least back then (I graduated HS in '01), the start times of high, elementary, and middle were essentially dictated by the bus drivers union.

[photo fox]

Just a gentle nudge to keep on topic, y'all. :-)

[SueB]

On 11/25/2016 at 11:51 PM, love2lovebadtv said:

I think Kevin's statement was grammatically correct but I need to hear the whole sentence. 

I don't think an introduction is the only time Kevin would have referred to Randall as his brother. Even sticking up for Randall (which Kevin didn't), he would have told kids to lay off his brother or made some kind of reference to his brother. The fact that he didn't say the words or treat him like a brother is why Randall was so hurt. I do believe that both brothers carried these experiences into their adult lives.

I don't remember the sentence but I thought Kevin's sentence was grammatically correct while Randall's correction was not. Does anyone know exactly what was said? 

 

 

Exactly what was said was. "You and I." Which is not, in fact, a sentence. 

***WARNING, I'm not a grammar expert***

With that warning, I think who is correct is a function of what is the implied rest of the sentence.  

Randall is right if the implied sentence is: "You and I are going to dinner?" In this case, I believe "you" and "I" are the objects of the sentence.  
Kevin is right if the implied sentence is: "Dinner will be between just you and me."  In which case, both words are subjects.  Note, I cheated and thru in a preposition, between, to show the relationship.  

"You" goes both ways. It can be either and object or a subject. 

In all honesty, in my head, I expected Kevin was really saying "Just you and me?"   In which case, there is no verb and it is STILL an incomplete sentence.  However, I'm leaning towards Kevin being right in this case because the emphasis was less about what the two were doing and more that it was going to be only those two at dinner. It was about the relationship between the two people (both grammatically and narratively). 

***Aerospace engineer here.  English feels like a second language while also being my only language.  *rimshot*

Edited November 27, 2016 by SueB

[wilnil]

@SueB, I've edited for a living, and you're dead on (other than transposing "subject" and "object" in the examples -- the subject is the actor in the sentence, and the object is what's acted upon). Randall, I think, is stumbling into a common error people get into with compound (two or more) objects: They've been corrected on "you and I" so often that they assume it's always correct, but really it's only correct as a compound subject; as an object it should be "you and me," even though it sounds wrong after all that "correction."

[queenanne]

On 11/16/2016 at 0:48 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

Yeah, I was hoping they would have a brownie while watching The Manny together.

I'm loathe to defend Toby but he really is in a no win situation.  He can't eat junk food without Kate because he would be "hiding" something from her, he can't eat it in front of her because then he's not supporting her, he can't say no to the dessert he wants because she knows he wants it!  I guess if Kate can't handle eating the way she needs to eat around someone who eats differently, she should break up with him.  I suppose it's a valid reason to break up with someone but on the other hand it seems really extreme to me.  I mean, at some point she is going to have to eat around other people and they are not always going to eat exactly like her.  It seems to me to be unhealthy to eat alone all of the time.  I feel like she would be better served to learn how to handle the fact that she has a burden that she alone is responsible for carrying.  It sucks but unless she accepts it, she's not going to make any progress towards her goal.

I feel like if Toby literally said after losing 8 pounds he's "done", I wouldn't be surprised if a future unwinding of their relationship ended with a reveal that he started going to the WW meetings simply to pick up chicks. I feel like men wouldn't join the likes of WW to lose 10 or less pounds, that seems more the province of women.  I'd much rather have seen him eat 3-4 spoonfuls of dessert with every appearance of enjoyment, then put it aside proclaiming that he was satiated.

On 11/17/2016 at 10:17 AM, photo fox said:

For me, it's more Rebecca's attitude than her actions.  Even when she's playing the middle, it comes off as "Thank you, Randall, for being SO accommodating.  Kevin, isn't Randall being wonderfully generous?"  Even when she takes Kevin's side, it seems like there's a bit of a "wink and a nod" with Randall, like "I'm taking his side, but you know how he is."  Which really annoys me, because she's supposed to be the parent.  She just lets them do whatever and then heaves a big exasperated sigh.

But I'll admit I may be biased against Rebecca, whom I just can't like for reasons that aren't entirely clear to me.

I've been "the Kevin" to a much younger "miracle baby" myself.  Anything my sister wanted to do under the rubric of "being with you because she loves you so", I was required to suck up, even if it meant that what I was doing was being impeded to the point of uselessness of my engaging in it.  If I were to be tasked with, say, folding the laundry and my sister would have unwound all of as I went, laughing merrily all the way for 15+ minutes, my mother would be there swearing "she'll get tired of it", regardless of how much of my time and day it was wasting. Whenever my needs were met, it was with eye-rolling and apologies in the direction of my sister that I was being such a drama queen it was required to placate the overgrown teenage baby that was me, er, that was I, you see.  So, this interpretation reads really true to me.

On 11/18/2016 at 6:22 PM, izabella said:

When Kevin first left for NY, and when Kate told Toby that her brothers always comes first, the show seemed to be making a big deal about their co-dependent twin relationship, but I'm not seeing one tiny little bit of that in the flashbacks, nor in the present.  We haven't seen Kate and Kevin interacting in any particular way as children, certainly not doing things together or talking together, or having any conversations about Randall or the parents or anything.  And they've had no interactions at all since Kevin left.  Even if they felt they needed separation, I find it really hard to believe that means they would NEVER talk or text or email how things are going.

IMO clearly the writers are having trouble balancing everything with respect to the ensemble cast, and Kate/Kevin are one of the things currently falling by the wayside.  I agree for such a putative show tentpole it's wrong.

On 11/23/2016 at 11:19 AM, SlackerInc said:

What twisted person ever thought it made sense to have teenagers, who naturally become more nocturnal than at any other stage of their lives, have to start school earlier than younger kids and earlier than adults usually start work?  It's insane.

Well, to be fair, I don't think we really learned that until the Oughts, at least that's what I remember from my YA lit class (a whole episode of the likes of Nightline or 20/20).  Teens are wired to crave risk (to the point where, literally, the decision-making and evaluating portion of the brain is developing latest of all - some say it can take until mid-twenties, to the point where technically, we should raise the minimum age of military enrollment to make sure individuals are choosing it in their right minds); to both literally crave to stay up late and to sleep late.

Edited December 3, 2016 by queenanne

[Crs97]

Quote

I feel like men wouldn't join the likes of WW to lose 10 or less pounds, that seems more the province of women.  I'd much rather have seen him eat 3-4

 I didn't get the feeling that Toby joined the group simply to lose 8 pounds.  He said he gained almost 100 pounds after his divorce, and I got the feeling he probably wanted to lose all that weight at the beginning. I think he decided after all that work that it was no longer worth it to deny himself. I got the feeling that he decided he was just going to be happy with who he now was.  

[Quickbeam]

Just catching up with this show on Hulu. A few great moments....Toby weighing in with his shoes on!!! The washing machine montage was perfect....I remember harvest gold and avocado. This show owns me. I just love Kevin. 

Edited June 11, 2017 by Quickbeam