S04.E11: To Love And To Cherish

[Drogo]

The three couples that were married at first sight learn about the importance of trust in their relationships. Will their marriages flourish?

[Drogo]

This is an episode thread for discussing things that happened in this episode.  Many posters in the episode threads prefer to remain unspoiled re: social media posts, Unfiltered, Confessions, etc.   This is not a lot to ask, so please follow the rules.  

If you want to post any reference to something you heard outside of the actual episode and aired preview, please take it to the appropriate thread.  

[nexxie]

Hmmm, I'm not sure that Lily and Tom are as committed as they pretend to be.

[Straycat80]

Nick to Sonia: ' Well, you could come back and sleep on the couch'.

I would have kicked him out of the car if I was Sonia! This guy is so clueless! 

[belladonna77]

Just now, Straycat80 said:

Nick to Sonia: ' Well, you could come back and sleep on the couch'.

I would have kicked him out of the car if I was Sonia! This guy is so clueless! 

For real!  If he was a gentleman, he'd offer to sleep on the couch.

[Enero]

40 minutes ago, belladonna77 said:

For real!  If he was a gentleman, he'd offer to sleep on the couch.

IKR! And what's the point of moving back in just to build a friendship?  They can do that living in separate houses. Furthermore, Nick has been saying they can be friends for weeks with nothing happening. If it didn't happen when they were living together the first time, it certainly isn't going to happen if she moves back in.  

The Cinco De Mayo "party" wasn't a party at all. It was actually kind of sad. Were all of Nick and Sonia's friends busy? The people who showed seemed as if they were there doing them a favor, and then one brought her kid. He seemed really out of place. Just weird, which seems to always be the case with Nick and Sonia.

On a shallow note, Sonia looked really pretty at the "party."

Edited October 5, 2016 by Enero

[Straycat80]

I hope they are done torturing us with Derek and Heather. They are done, done, done! And no, expert lady, they are not going to be friends, not now or ever. 

Nick and Sonia are so awkward to watch. He doesn't want her. They supposedly had sex but there is no PDA between them. The party was sad, where were their friends? Two people and a kid show up. And then the friend asked them 'and what is the next chapter'? And it was.... crickets. Awkward! Nick keeps saying things to make it sound like its Sonia's fault the marriage isn't moving forward. He's the one who hurt her and acted like a douche. 

I think Nick and Sonia want to be married....just not to each other. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Straycat80

[jamblastx]

Derek/Heather -Derek please stop talking about the 'good times'....they were ALL in your head.  And if you truly want to try to make it work, don't show up wearing the wedding band...it's just creepy and you cannot guilt someone into desiring you.  And of course, the SECOND something doesn't go his way, out come the passive aggressive comments 'Why didn't you just bring the divorce papers'....asshole.  And why would you even want to be with someone that does not want you at all?  It's not as if there is a ton of history or even a few seconds of a past where you two were in love so just drop it!  Jeez!  And MAFS...stop dragging this?  Why was there this meeting and the question as to when do you want to proceed with the divorce?   Stop CREATING drama!

Nick/Sonja - Remind me not to accept an invitation to one of their 'parties'....sitting at home and watching a dumb ass reality show about marrying strangers on a fourth rate 'network' seems more appealing then that carnivale of sadness.  And while Richard Six Pack made some good points to Nick, his analogy was hysterical 'Dude...a marriage is just like getting six pack abs.  You don't do one sit up and boom, there it is.  You have to do a heavy rotation of weights, cardio and diet...preferably a low carb, high protein diet....and don't forget to supplement.  Also remember to take care of the obliques...you don't want to have a washboard stomach and have love handles.  As far as the diet is concerned, if you have already done the heavy weight rotation, you should probably start a cutting diet.  Personally I like about 60% of your calories coming from protein sources and about 20% each from fats and carbs....wait, what were we talking about?'

Tom/Lily - They are fine for now....but his slacker ways (not minimalist....slacker) and her being the breadwinner will be an issue in the future.

[Adeejay]

I can’t believe it took them 11 weeks to pull the plug on Heather and Derick, when clearly, they were done since week three.

Nick made it perfectly clear that he doesn’t like Sonia and isn’t attracted to her. Now all of a sudden, he can see a future with her.  I hope she has the good sense not to move back in with him.  Like the late Maya Angelou said, "when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."   

I don’t think Lily and Tom are as happy as they’d have us believe.  Sooner or later, a slacker and someone who is fiercely ambitious are bound to butt heads.  

I don't like the way "the experts" lecture and berate the couples when they hit a rough patch.  They seem to take it as a personal affront.

[Lion18]

Derek once again with his nasty remarks to Heather. Makes me sick how people kiss his butt on Twitter 

heather is a smart woman not to stay with him

Nick shows no emotion, hugs, hand holding Nothing towards Sonia but talking head keeps saying how much he wants this marriage. What?

[CindyK]

5 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

I can’t believe it took them 11 weeks to pull the plug on Heather and Derick, when clearly, they were done since week three.

Nick made it perfectly clear that he doesn’t like Sonia and isn’t attracted to her. Now all of a sudden, he can see a future with her.  I hope she has the good sense not to move back in with him.  Like the late Maya Angelou said, "when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."   

I don’t think Lily and Tom are as happy as they’d have us believe.  Sooner or later, a slacker and someone who is fiercely ambitious are bound to butt heads.  

I don't like the way "the experts" lecture and berate the couples when they hit a rough patch.  They seem to take it as a personal affront.

That's the problem with having the same experts pair and counsel them. Because they have a personal stake in the couples working out, their advice is tainted.

Did anyone catch how many weeks we have until decision day?

[Enero]

25 minutes ago, Lion18 said:

Nick shows no emotion, hugs, hand holding Nothing towards Sonia but talking head keeps saying how much he wants this marriage. What?

Nick is saying what he needs to say so that he doesn't look like a complete ass. He's no more interested in Sonya than he was before which isn't saying much. 

They've supposedly had sex so if they're building a "friendship" he should at least be very comfortable with breaking the touch barrier and frankly he should have a desire to and do it. But again he has no desire to. He's not attracted to her at.all.

I agree with the comments about Tom and Lily. What does he do all day anyway while Lily is working? There's obviously a genuine attraction their but there differences in drive, her being very ambitious and him being fine with where he is will eventually cause serious problems. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Enero

[belladonna77]

I'm SO over Dr. Pepper and her talking heads saying, "Sonia has to move back in" in an annoyed tone.  Dr. Pepper has the worst ideas ever.  Why was she the only one who the show kept???  I hope the season 4 people take the experts to task like Monet did in season 1 (and perhaps season 2?).

1 hour ago, Enero said:

IKR! And what's the point of moving back in just to build a friendship?  They can do that living in separate houses. Furthermore, Nick has been saying they can be friends for weeks with nothing happening. If it didn't happen when they were living together the first time, it certainly isn't going to happen if she moves back in.  

The Cinco De Mayo "party" wasn't a party at all. It was actually kind of sad. Were all of Nick and Sonia's friends busy? The people who showed seemed as if they were there doing them a favor, and then one brought her kid. He seemed really out of place. Just weird, which seems to always be the case with Nick and Sonia.

On a shallow note, Sonia looked really pretty at the "party."

I honestly feel like one of the reasons Nick may want Sonia to come back is for the sex.  She's probably much more appealing to him now that she's sexually and emotionally unavailable to him.

[Gem 10]

36 minutes ago, CindyK said:

That's the problem with having the same experts pair and counsel them. Because they have a personal stake in the couples working out, their advice is tainted.

Did anyone catch how many weeks we have until decision day?

Two weeks.

[peaceknit]

That party, lol. First off, that little boy that was there, so out of place! There were no other children or any kind of entertainment for him. This was an adult party, everyone was drinking, and the boy was sitting there, taking it all in.

And I want to say, Nick's lack of eye contact, especially with Sonia, is very disconcerting. The way he looks at her sometimes, turning his head with eyes closed, then opening them slowly, like he's looking at a bug...ugh! Run, Sonia!

Lilly looked very nice with her hair up. It hides her thinning on top. I like her and Tom as a couple.

[potatochips]

Oh fer Pete's sake......what a tedious episode. 

Tom and Lillie are headed for  a crash and burn. They enjoy the sex but don't have much in common. She seemed disgusted by his breath after bowling. 

Why even make us watch that mess between Heather and Derek? 

I can't listen to Nick. He totally lacks emotion and compassion. Sonia,would be nutz to move back with that spineless bore. 

[Snarklepuss]

The show making us suffer through the awkward silence between Derek and Heather was so painful I almost wanted to change the channel.  If that's the only footage they could find to put on the show that's pretty bad. What useless, painful filler.

I get the feeling Lily is treating her relationship with Tom almost like he's just a boyfriend and she's taking things slow and easy just to see how they work out. I'll bet she figures she's young yet and if things don't work out with Tom she still has plenty of time to find someone else to marry.

Tom is such a freaking cheapskate that he rationalizes not getting a gift for Lily with testing her to see if she is not materialistic, meanwhile the truth is he just doesn't want to spend the money on her, then he feels guilty and buy cheap supermarket flowers for her. Dude couldn't have spent more than $3.99 on them.  Really?  He couldn't even spring for the $12.99 bouquet?

It's unbelievable how Tom was surfing all day and then complained that Lilly didn't pay enough attention to him. Either they're making up problems between them he really is a clueless, cheap douche.  At least she has a real job.  They have never made it believable that he works.  The show just makes him look like a slacker.

Sonia and Nick are painful to watch now and I don't believe one thing out of either of their mouths anymore.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Snarklepuss
Correcting talk to text errors.

[holly4755]

Nick and Sonia - I see you are following the script they are giving you. I didn't believe either of you. 

Derek and Heather, I am going to start a free Heather movement, I think Derek is still enjoying the show and his new friends.Hopefully they have earned the money despite the break up.

Tom and Lily, some times people have to work, and other times people are workaholics - figure it out. 

I had days in my youth where I would be in the middle of something and would end up working 24 hours straight, I always kept my ex informed, and never when we had plans for anything, but what are you going to do when a CEO begs you to help him he needs it for court the next morning and my co-works said their 8 hour day was over and walked out on him. I told him to shit can those people for starts, hehe.  

[Gem 10]

B O R I N G episode.  Nick .. No personality at all.   Sonia, is wasting her time;  doesn't she see there's nothing there?  LIly works.  Does Tom?  Derek & Heather filling in by contract.   They are just biding time till show is over.  Very disappointing.

[belladonna77]

25 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

The show making us suffer through the awkward silence between Derek and Heather was so painful I almost wanted to change the channel.  If that's the only footage they could find to put on the show that's pretty bad. What useless, painful filler.

I get the feeling Lily is treating her relationship with Tom almost like he's just a boyfriend and she's taking things slow and easy just to see how they work out. I'll bet she figures she's young yet and if things don't work out with Tom she still has plenty of time to find someone else to marry.

Tom is such a freaking cheapskate that he rationalizes not getting a gift for Lily with testing her to see if she is not materialistic, meanwhile the truth is he just doesn't want to spend the money on her, then he feels guilty and buy cheap supermarket flowers for her. Dude couldn't have spent more than $3.99 on them.  Really?  He couldn't even spring for the $12.99 bouquet? 

$3.99? I am waiting for the lost footage showing Tom picking those flowers from a neighbor's yard. That was such a sparse bouquet. 

[Snarklepuss]

4 minutes ago, belladonna77 said:

$3.99? I am waiting for the lost footage showing Tom picking those flowers from a neighbor's yard. That was such a sparse bouquet. 

LOL I only thought supermarket because of the baby's breath around them.  I don't think he put enough thought into them to have hand picked them, which would have at least been a romantic gesture.

[buttersister]

26 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

Either they're making up problems between them he really is a clueless, cheap douche.  At least she has a real job.  They have never made it believable that he works.  The show just makes him look like a slacker.

Made more hilarious by his making a big deal early on about wanting a prenup. Hilarious unless he's a trust fund baby, but baby, I don't trust him. "Lily doesn't listen to ME enough. Lily works too much so she can't pay attention to ME. I give 100+% and she gives 60%." maybe because she works full-time and I'm still waiting to see him working on a plane interior (or whatever he does). These two are my favorite couple on the show, so, yikes, what does that say?

Hey, Sonia, continue to run. Away.

[Snarklepuss]

20 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

B O R I N G episode.  Nick .. No personality at all.   Sonia, is wasting her time;  doesn't she see there's nothing there?

Show producer to Sonia:  You can't bail now, we just had another couple fizzle and we're struggling to pad this season out a couple more weeks.  Besides, you have a contract!

Sonia:  Well, OK, but you have to show footage of me giving out food to the homeless.  And you have to make Nick do it too.

Producer:  OK, that works.

Nick:  As long as I can wear matching tee shirts and caps from my clothing line.

Producer:  Whatever, just don't bail.  And try to be fake-nice, OK?

[Paddywagon]

Ugh, more Derek and Heather.  Please just stop.

Tom and Lily seem to be getting into real life a bit.  I think they're fine but reality is putting a few dings in the fantasy.  It's adorable how often she wears the pearl necklace he gave her as a wedding gift.  Gives me the feels every time I see it.  And no, I'm not gonna mention that cute outfit she had on for the anniversary dinner.  But it really was a cute outfit!

I'm surprised by Sonia.  She is holding up well considering all the mixed signals Nick keeps throwing at her.  In the beginning she seemed so mousy but she's got some strength shining through! Nick needs to give her a reason to come back but he's acting so cocky.  He needs to show her that he understands how much he hurt her before any healing can begin.  "Let's develop a friendship" isn't gonna cut it.  I like his friend Rich and I think he gave some good advice.  

Why were the adults discussing marital problems in front of a child?  That was really weird.

[deannanikki]

1 minute ago, Paddywagon said:

Ugh, more Derek and Heather.  Please just stop.

Tom and Lily seem to be getting into real life a bit.  I think they're fine but reality is putting a few dings in the fantasy.  It's adorable how often she wears the pearl necklace he gave her as a wedding gift.  Gives me the feels every time I see it.  And no, I'm not gonna mention that cute outfit she had on for the anniversary dinner.  But it really was a cute outfit!

I'm surprised by Sonia.  She is holding up well considering all the mixed signals Nick keeps throwing at her.  In the beginning she seemed so mousy but she's got some strength shining through! Nick needs to give her a reason to come back but he's acting so cocky.  He needs to show her that he understands how much he hurt her before any healing can begin.  "Let's develop a friendship" isn't gonna cut it.  I like his friend Rich and I think he gave some good advice.  

Why were the adults discussing marital problems in front of a child?  That was really weird.

 

My friend and I were watching this episode together and we said the same thing about the marital problems and the child. So very weird.

The show needs to let Derek and Heather go. She's clearly over it.

"I want Sonia to move back in." Ha, yeah right.

I want Tom and Lillian to make it, but I don't know about them lasting in the long run. I agree with the poster about them clashing her being a breadwinner and him being cheap.

[izabella]

Lily and Tom have been hitting all the issues that people fight about and divorce over - house/bus, kids, money, work, communicating.  Have they talked religion yet?  All they have going for them is sex.

[AliR]

The coaching of Nick from his Bromigo was hysterical. I almost felt sad for Nick at that moment. It made me wonder how much we've missed/been manipulated  (thanks producers!).  

It killed me watching Nick walk in after the "party" straightening the rug with his toe on his way to sit down... Oh, wait! Must move throw pillow 4" to the right before sitting. Holy crap! That alone would drive me nuts. 

I agree Dr. Pepper was really snarky about Sonia not moving back in. What about Nick? It's still on him to say the words, "I like it better when you're around."  "You're the kind of woman I'd like to spend the rest of my life with."  

Anyone see the dogs tonight?

[nlkm9]

I kept thinking, if Nick is so attracted to Sonia, try and hold her hand, kiss her, do something....maybe Nick is not a publicly affectionate guy but I literally see NO sparks between them.....its a shame. he says he finds her very attractive but he doesnt act attracted to her at all.....again, wish she had been paired with David from last season--they would have at least made a serious go of it.....I feel bad for Sonia...

[Vinyasa]

Well, that episode was quite boring! It could have been all shown in 30 minutes. Maybe T-shirt sales weren't up enough so they had to drag it out. Can't these people do anything fun??

Gosh, I don't need to see any more trips down memory lane with Derek and Heather. I don't need to see anymore of them.

Where is the fishbowl when we need it?

[jamblastx]

Quote

Tom is such a freaking cheapskate that he rationalizes not getting a gift for Lily with testing her to see if she is not materialistic, meanwhile the truth is he just doesn't want to spend the money on her, then he feels guilty and buy cheap supermarket flowers for her. Dude couldn't have spent more than $3.99 on them.  Really?  He couldn't even spring for the $12.99 bouquet?

I totally forgot to mention the flowers in my post and I soooo wanted to.  He was so proud of his Mobil station flowers and teasing the reveal as if he was about to give her a diamond.  And I forgot about the vows that he wrote...it sure as hell seemed as if he forgot as well but decided to state the original ones with some slight changes off the top of his head.

 

10 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

LOL I only thought supermarket because of the baby's breath around them.  I don't think he put enough thought into them to have hand picked them, which would have at least been a romantic gesture.

Seriously Snarklepuss....supermarket flowers?!  It wasn't a ten year anniversary, it was a one month anniversary and is Tom made out of money?!  I stand by that they were gas station flowers

Edited October 5, 2016 by Drogo
EDITED BY MOD: Quote formatting.

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, AliR said:

I agree Dr. Pepper was really snarky about Sonia not moving back in. What about Nick? It's still on him to say the words, "I like it better when you're around."  "You're the kind of woman I'd like to spend the rest of my life with." 

He said it to the camera but not Sonia.  When he said she was the "kind" of woman that meant nothing because it still doesn't mean HER.

42 minutes ago, jamblastx said:

Seriously Snarklepuss....supermarket flowers?!  It wasn't a ten year anniversary, it was a one month anniversary and is Tom made out of money?!  I stand by that they were gas station flowers

LOL, or maybe he bought them from someone on the side of the road.  After all, this appears to have been filmed in May, perhaps near Mother's Day.

[Neurochick]

My thoughts this morning:

Nick is a child.  That is his problem.  He doesn't get that he hurt Sonia, he really doesn't.  He's like a four year old when they say mean things to another four year old and fifteen minutes later, they're friends again.  Children live in the moment, they don't have baggage.  Adults are more complicated, we live in yesterday and tomorrow.  Sonia is afraid that Nick will have one drink too many and hurt her again; that's why in 12 step programs it says, "nothing pays off like restraint of tongue and pen."  Nick needs to learn a lesson, that sometimes when you say hurtful stuff to people, saying "sorry" just doesn't cut it.  Sometimes it takes time, sometimes people never get over it.

I think the experts were wrong to want Sonia to move back in.  Nick doesn't even get how what he said affected Sonia.  He doesn't get that relationships take work, as his friend was telling him.  His friend used a good example, working out, if you want washboard abs, you can't just do one sit up, you have to do many to get the results you want.

I think Tom and Lily are working at their relationship, they don't just sit back and expect it to work itself.   I don't get what is so wrong with Tom being "cheap."  To me, being cheap is NOT a bad thing, one of my best friends used to have a blog called, "The Cheapest Woman Alive Tells All."  And we used to compare notes at how cheap both of us are; I mean if you spend less than you make, you'll always be rich.  If anything I detest people who think they have to spend tons of money to be okay.

But, Tom has to realize that Lily working so much is not a bad thing.  He has to realize that as a woman and as an immigrant woman, she has to work twice as hard to be just as good.  However, even though it bugged Tom, he did yell at Lily about it, he didn't get drunk and act like a baby, the way Nick did. 

[SaucyMommy]

So last week I kind of glazed over the episode because it really feels like this season is dragging. Without a third couple - it's a lot of time to spend on two couples that I'm not all that invested in. That being said. I totally support Sonia not being in the house. It seems that Nick is actually making more of an effort with her not there. He seems more interested and invested, and I don't blame her for not wanting to be there. No woman should have to be a place where she does not feel safe either physically or emotionally. What he said was very hurtful, and in a dating relationship could have ended things on the spot. For the experts to be pushing for her to move in serves more for their own motives than for the couple. Couples separate and move out all the time. People sometimes DO need space. That doesn't mean it won't work - it just means they know they need time to sort through it. Sonia seems thoughtful to me in that she doesn't want to be bitten twice by the snake. I get it! It's easier for him to try and Woo when she isn't there. MAKE him want you and miss you. You go Sonia!

Tom and Lily. She is very, very young. I can understand her ambition - I was the same way at her age. But My hope is at some point she does realize that working and being with your significant other should not be done at the same time. Tom seems very patient with her and I think overall they are a good match. Her gift was incredibly thoughtful to him.

[Cherrio]

10 hours ago, jamblastx said:

And of course, the SECOND something doesn't go his way, out come the passive aggressive comments

Yep!  He is a spoiled mean child with a dumb auto grin.  Go away.     I think Nick the cruel drunk deserves a mandatory life with Nicole from 90 day Fiance.   I would not forgive or be able to forget what he said.  Doomed.

[Snarklepuss]

23 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I think Tom and Lily are working at their relationship, they don't just sit back and expect it to work itself.   I don't get what is so wrong with Tom being "cheap."  To me, being cheap is NOT a bad thing, one of my best friends used to have a blog called, "The Cheapest Woman Alive Tells All."  And we used to compare notes at how cheap both of us are; I mean if you spend less than you make, you'll always be rich.  If anything I detest people who think they have to spend tons of money to be okay.

Yeah I don't think Lilly is one of those people but it makes Tom feel "less than" because she has the money to spend on a nice gift.  Being cheap because you have budgetary constraints is one thing, but being cheap because you're basically stingy and feel threatened by the fact that your wife has a real job and makes more money than you do, to the point that you have to rationalize it by insinuating that she's "materialistic" is quite another.  I doubt he's so bad off that the only gift he could afford was that thoughtless bunch of flowers.  And speaking of the thought, he gave her something that required zero thought.  It wouldn't even matter if he spent a penny on it if he had put any thought whatsoever into the gift itself.  He just gave her that because he didn't want to look bad, but quite honestly in my opinion it made him look WORSE.

[izabella]

46 minutes ago, SaucyMommy said:

Tom and Lily. She is very, very young. I can understand her ambition - I was the same way at her age. But My hope is at some point she does realize that working and being with your significant other should not be done at the same time.

I agree with what you're saying, generally.  I think that breaks down in circumstances where one partner isn't working (we have not seen Tom go to work or talk about work or think about work).  And it breaks down further when the working partner is in real estate, because agents have to work evenings and weekends.  That's when most of her clients would be available for showings, and she has to be available - dinner hour is not a thing for real estate agents!  Agents also use their cars as home offices and their homes, as well as lunch tables and coffee shop counters - they don't "go to the office" 9 to 5 and then are done.  It's not that kind of job.  Tom will need to understand Lily's particular work situation and accommodate since he is the one with all the free time.

[Neurochick]

I remember when I was in college and the girls would compare as to who got the best bouquet of roses for Valentine's Day. 

I don't see Tom as resenting Lily at all.  He feels the way I do, I can't stand people who think they need things to prove they're okay; for me, the best money spent is on experiences, not on shit that eventually will collect dust.  I think the gesture of bringing flowers was sweet no matter where they came from.

I find Tom very sweet, so far.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Drogo
EDITED BY MOD: Please don't criticize other posters.

[cardigirl]

I liked when Lily told Tom that lilies are her favorite flower, and he said "Oh, they are?" with a deer-in-the-headlights look.  I'm sure he has no idea what a lily even looks like (like many men). If he went to a flower shop and asked for lilies, he would probably fall over at the price.  Heh. 
 

I think many men would have no clue that "gas station" flowers are less acceptable than a large bouquet from a florist shop (until their girlfriend/wife told them).  They just know that flowers are something girls like.  

[Lesia]

I want to know what was so appealing about Nick as a candidate.  Was he top 3?  Really?  At least Tom is kind of good looking, he seems like a sweet slacker kind of guy, and Derek, while not appealing to me, has a sort of "okay-ness" about him.  But Nick?  So blah, so non-committal, why did they pick him??

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I think Tom and Lily are working at their relationship, they don't just sit back and expect it to work itself.   I don't get what is so wrong with Tom being "cheap."  To me, being cheap is NOT a bad thing, one of my best friends used to have a blog called, "The Cheapest Woman Alive Tells All."  And we used to compare notes at how cheap both of us are; I mean if you spend less than you make, you'll always be rich.  If anything I detest people who think they have to spend tons of money to be okay.

But, Tom has to realize that Lily working so much is not a bad thing.  He has to realize that as a woman and as an immigrant woman, she has to work twice as hard to be just as good.  However, even though it bugged Tom, he did yell at Lily about it, he didn't get drunk and act like a baby, the way Nick did. 

The only problem I see is that Lily and Tom DO NOT see eye to eye on making money and spending money.  Like, not at all.  She wants to make lots of money and says so straight up.  And she told us she has things she wants to do with that money, like have babies and raise a family, and not on a bus but in a house near a good school district.

Tom wants to work little, earn little, and spend little.  This is going to be a big problem for them.

[MV713]

I can see where Nick has changed his tune and feelings toward Sonia after she left.  She is more attractive and desirable now that she has pulled away. However I really don't believe they are going to make a go of it after this is over.  I wonder what it would have been like to watch Sullen sulky Heather with robotic Nick trying to work it out also.

Lilly and Tom seem to have the greatest chance of survival.  I don't know who commented above that she is an "immigrant worker".  Nothing they have shown implicated her as an "immigrant".   I do wish they would get her a hair/makeup artist for tv though.

[Primetimer]

What are Nick and Sonia fighting for, anyway? And other questions sparked by 'To Love And To Cherish'!

View the full article

[Gem 10]

8 hours ago, izabella said:

Lily and Tom have been hitting all the issues that people fight about and divorce over - house/bus, kids, money, work, communicating.  Have they talked religion yet?  All they have going for them is sex.

BINGO !   Tom IS cheap.  I hope the necklace is real gold.  I have a relative who is cheap like Tom.  He doesn't have a girlfriend because girls spell "money".  He lives in a crappy apartment, burns firewood for heat, doesn't dress nicely, etc. etc.. He doesn't want to marry because if there's a divorce, he'll have to give wife half of his assets.  Kids cost money .. Tom doesn't even want to talk kids.  I will be surprised if he stays with Lily because money rules in his life and it's a sickness.  Maybe I'm wrong .. I don't know .. Just a feeling after those measly flowers he gave her on their 1 month anniversary.  

[bichonblitz]

9 minutes ago, izabella said:

I think that breaks down in circumstances where one partner isn't working (we have not seen Tom go to work or talk about work or think about work).  And it breaks down further when the working partner is in real estate, because agents have to work evenings and weekends.  That's when most of her clients would be available for showings, and she has to be available - dinner hour is not a thing for real estate agents!  Agents also use their cars as home offices and their homes, as well as lunch tables and coffee shop counters - they don't "go to the office" 9 to 5 and then are done.  It's not that kind of job.  Tom will need to understand Lily's particular work situation and accommodate since he is the one with all the free time.

ITA. Actually, I don't think Tom is working at all.  But then again, we do not see Nick at work or Derek at work so who the hell knows with this show. They will not make it. He has no ambition except to surf. I am in real estate and can attest to the fact that it never stops. Don't get me wrong, there are slacker real estate agents but the truly successful ones are like Lily. Maybe in 10 years she will have a partner, or an assistant or people working under her but for now she knows she has to give it her all if she ever wants to get to that point. 

Nick. Oh, Nick. He is just not a nice person. The producers probably told him that one couple already flaked out so he better bring it fake or not, or there is going to be a lawsuit or something to that effect. He's going through the motions and biding his time for 2 more weeks, then he is out of there. Why would Sonia want a dull, lifeless, jerk like that anyway. 

So what we are seeing is 3 independant women with good jobs, and 3 guys that are  losers. Nick may be making money but he is a loser in every other way. Great job with the matchmaking, show!  

That Cinco de Mayo party was the most depressing, pathetic thing I have ever seen. Nick: Look at me, I put up the decorations! Aren't I special? Go away, dude. You suck. 

[gonecrackers]

Heather & Derek fulfilling their contract obligations I understand, but how much of the bitch edit can they milk on this show with her? There's no balance here at all - not even trying. They're sitting on the couch together & they show Derek smiling several times yet it's all serious with her expressions - I find it hard to believe she didn't crack even the slightest smile that whole time. It was very contrived with tons of bad edits, & as a viewer I really resented the whole scene.

Now next week we get to see Derek moving on - was that a date or a friend? He's still technically married so hopefully it's the latter; at least let the body get cold. And of course she says he's marriage material - does she even know him? Who knows but they certainly enjoy painting Derek in the best possible light. On the other hand Heather has a 'friend' saying she comes off as pretentious. My opinion is she needs new friends; she certainly doesn't have any related to the show, that's for sure. Hopefully, she can forgive herself for ever signing up for this dog & pony show in the first place.

Nick is saying all the right things but I still think he put the truth out there in the cruelest way, & what's done is done. This is being milked too; I agree with the posters saying this is for the benefit of the show & the 'experts', not Nick & especially not Sonia. Maybe they'll have a friendship of some sort in the end, at best, but maybe not even.

I did like Nick's friend, but again people are going on the 'there is something to work with here' assumption, & some things are just not salvageable. Dr. Pepper has her own agenda & needs to just stop it.

From observing Tom & Lillian I feel like IF this isn't contrived show stuff (always have to put that disclaimer there), it's more of a love language issue. Sonia can lend them her book on love languages as I think she was reading that on her honeymoon; maybe it will help them instead. I'm impressed with Lilly & her thoughtfulness, & I do believe Tom is touched as well, but that may just not be his forte. She seems more Type A; he's laid back, but both can have their place.

What impresses me about Tom is his really wanting to spend time with Lilly. Yes she needs to work & I admire her diligence, but in the end the gift of our time is the best gift people can get, & that is something many partners who don't get will be envious of her with Tom. That time together will nurture their relationship & help it grow. Continuing to give each other first place can make the difference between falling apart as a couple or longevity in the marriage. It's about priorities, & balance. No one's perfect & we can't get everything from one person. My personal opinion is that time spent apart doing what needs to be done won't be much of an issue IF they are also giving each other focused time together. That will probably go farther for the marriage than giving gifts, even thoughtful ones. Well, that's my take on them.

Otherwise it was kind of snoozer...

[gonecrackers]

11 hours ago, peaceknit said:

That party, lol. First off, that little boy that was there, so out of place! There were no other children or any kind of entertainment for him. This was an adult party, everyone was drinking, and the boy was sitting there, taking it all in.

Forgot the party - to me it was more of a 'get together' than a party, & it was not an appropriate place for the boy. My guess is he was there for the excitement of being on TV, but it was not a good call by anyone for him to be there.

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, MV713 said:

Lilly and Tom seem to have the greatest chance of survival.  I don't know who commented above that she is an "immigrant worker".  Nothing they have shown implicated her as an "immigrant".   I do wish they would get her a hair/makeup artist for tv though.

I didn't say Lily was an "immigrant worker," (and what's wrong with being one?).  I mean that she knows that as a Hispanic woman who was NOT born in the USA, she will have to work harder.  It's the same as saying, women or black people have to work twice as hard to be considered just as good. 

As for the child being there, I didn't read too much of it, he probably was excited because of the TV cameras and had no idea what the grown ups were talking about.

[nlkm9]

bottom line...i see ZERO attraction from Nick to Sonia...this is a girl who wants a very affectionate, demonstrative guy......he just looks so awkward and if he was even infatuated with her (which would be the appropriate way after being together a few weeks) he would be trying to sit closer and gazing at her....its just awful to watch, really.  He is just tuned out and you cant force attraction that doesnt exist. I hope she does not move back in because I think he will continue to hurt her. Im telling you, set her up with david from last season!!!

[bichonblitz]

2 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I mean that she knows that as a Hispanic woman who was NOT born in the USA, she will have to work harder.

Maybe in some parts of the country, but not in Miami. The Latin community there is huge and growing every day. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by bichonblitz

[Neurochick]

7 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

bottom line...i see ZERO attraction from Nick to Sonia...this is a girl who wants a very affectionate, demonstrative guy......he just looks so awkward and if he was even infatuated with her (which would be the appropriate way after being together a few weeks) he would be trying to sit closer and gazing at her....its just awful to watch, really.  He is just tuned out and you cant force attraction that doesnt exist. I hope she does not move back in because I think he will continue to hurt her. Im telling you, set her up with david from last season!!!

This is true.  Even if Nick did feel for Sonia, he is one of those people who doesn't show how he feels, he doesn't "open up."  Even his friend said he was a closed person.  That would be hell for someone like Sonia who is very open, affectionate.  She needs to be with someone demonstrative, who shows her how much he cares about her.  Actually, what Sonia needs is another adult; Nick is a man child IMO.  He wants relationships to "just happen" without having to work for them.  He doesn't even realize how much he hurt Sonia, he thinks that she should have moved in the next day.  I hope they don't stay together because I think Sonia would be miserable with someone like Nick.