S01.E01: P-I-LOT

[kathyk24]

I loved it I could relate to JJ so well and I understood where Maya was coming from. Society tends to equate verbal ability with intelligence so she's had to convince people for all of her son's life that he's smart. I didn't take Maya's he's all right upstairs to be a slur toward people with cognitive disabilities but as an explanation of her son's abilities. The one thing the show got wrong was having the whole family move to accommodate JJ. Under special education law if a school cannot meet a disabled student's needs they are responsible for transportation to a school that can. The family doesn't have to move as well. I have CP like JJ does and the schools in my hometown were inaccessible so I attended different ones than my siblings.

[Zanne]

8 hours ago, Hanahope said:

My impression is that Minnie's character wanted JJ to be in standard classrooms in the public school.  She found a district that was rich enough that through public school funding, they could get the personal aide who could speak on JJ's behalf so he could participate in regular classrooms and not have to be in a separate room that may include other types of disabled students, particularly mentally disabled students.  Since JJ was not mentally disabled, he could keep up intellectually with non-disabled students, he just had difficulties communicating verbally, the aide solves that problem.  Of course, my question is how does he take written tests, perhaps we'll see an episode about that.  Anyway, I believe he still has an IEP that's unique to his situation (which perhaps may include accomodations for written tests, for example).

 

Just because JJ has limited mobility and problems with expressive speech absolutely does not mean he would have been placed in a separate, self-contained classroom. Students with speech issues and with mobility issues are placed in General Education classes if that's where they are functioning. There is a boatload of testing that needs to be done before a district can dare take a child out of a General Education setting and if that testing shows the child has no academic issues then they cannot place him in a separate setting just because he's in a wheelchair. That's bullshit. Yes, he should have an IEP to guarantee certain rights, such as having a paraprofessional, but that doesn't immediately maroon him where he doesn't belong. If the student required a paraprofessional with special skills, then the district might agree at the IEP meeting to pay for such services from an outside company. Usually, however, the position would be flown and the district would hire someone. I've been in Special Services (yep, that's what they call it now) for at least 15 years and in my early days I served as a scribe for a young lady who was paralyzed. The point of an IEP is to make it possible for students to get what they need in order to access the curriculum, not to punish them. It was the Mom's reaction of "Yay, no more Special Ed!" that frustrated me because that IEP would, in effect, be paying for the paraprofessional, for assistive devices that might help JJ in class, or whatever else he might need, and all without removing him from the General Education classroom.

[chitowngirl]

So why didn't the van have a handicapped placard? And if it didn't, that doesn't mean they can park there even though there is someone in the vehicle that is disabled.

[Crs97]

I wondered if they had a hanging placard on the rear view mirror that the woman couldn't see.  In our state they only add the symbol to the license plate if the car is registered in our son's name.  Ours hangs from the mirror, but we aren't supposed to drive with it up.  I assumed Dad was dealing with placard while Mom was operating the lift.

[Jac]

3 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

I loved it I could relate to JJ so well and I understood where Maya was coming from. Society tends to equate verbal ability with intelligence so she's had to convince people for all of her son's life that he's smart. I didn't take Maya's he's all right upstairs to be a slur toward people with cognitive disabilities but as an explanation of her son's abilities. The one thing the show got wrong was having the whole family move to accommodate JJ. Under special education law if a school cannot meet a disabled student's needs they are responsible for transportation to a school that can. The family doesn't have to move as well. I have CP like JJ does and the schools in my hometown were inaccessible so I attended different ones than my siblings.

I agree with this interpretation of Maya's comment about JJ's intellectual capacity. I too have a disability that has some, occasionally significant, impact on my speech (I have severe global apraxia) and it makes me extremely self-conscious because of the equation society makes between verbal ability and intelligence. I don't think the comment was meant to be ableist at all, I think that Maya being the extremely defensive type of person she is when it comes to JJ was simply trying to defend her son. 

I really enjoyed the pilot. I was happy to see a disabled person play a disabled person and all the kids seem quite well-suited to their roles. 

I like that JJ is an asshole. His behaviour is very typical for a lot of teenagers, disabled or not.

I like Minnie Driver's character. The dad seems a little underdeveloped at the moment.

Bonus Marin Hinkle was a nice surprise!

[bros402]

9 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

2. I know it was for comedic effect, and also it's a network show, but the primary role of JJ's aide is to translate for him. She's not his editor, educator, or authority figure. If he says "eat a bag of dicks", then she says "eat a bag of dicks". She's not allowed to censor or spin what he says to suit her own comfort or opinions, and speaking over him like that was the height of disrespect. 

 

9 hours ago, dmmetler said:

Rewatched-overall, I like it (and shows generally evolve after the pilot). I have cerebral palsy, although not to JJ's degree.  And parents really can go overboard in advocacy. The characters come off as authentic to family roles, only exaggerated a little for humor. Having known parents who have moved to more expensive school districts to get better services, that premise rings true as well-and yes, it's hard on other family members. 

 

At the same time, it rings SO true that it's hard to laugh at it-because yes (for example) the over enthusiastic aide is funny, but that is the kind of thing that really happens. Same with the ramp being the loading dock on the back of the building. People trying too hard and not treating you like a person, but as a poster child for their commitment to inclusiveness and diversity. It's enough to definitely make you think the kinds of comments JJ says-so as far as I'm concerned, bring on the snarky, eye-rolling JJ!  

I had a scribe like that aide once. He had to fill in every bubble and write the essays for me on a standardized test that determined the core classes I took in HS. When I told him a bubble to fill in, sometimes he'd give me a look like "Really?" which would make me doubt myself, then i'd look it over and just waste time.

During the essays, however, he would go "That doesn't sound right, maybe say this instead? Yeah, use this word instead of that word." "Are you SURE that's what the question meant?" "I think you should reread it before you tell me any more."

Hated that scribe - had him for the whole week of testing. Never saw him again.

After that, I didn't need scribes for the essay portion - the state started to approve people to take tests on computers (The story above was when I was in 8th grade, so the 2003-2004 school year), and I was allowed to type my answers for the multiple choice, then a scribe filled it in after I finished the section.

I have to take my parents to doctor's appointments to fill out forms, since I can't. My dad is more the type that will just fill it out and not really ask for my input, only put what he thinks is needed. My mom will point to the part and have me say exactly what I want it to say.

Last month, I was applying for continuing coverage with my mom's insurance to stay on past 26. The company called because they couldn't read my doctor's handwriting, outside of the CP diagnosis. I pick up the phone, say hello, person says "Hello, can we speak to the parents of <bros402>?"
"He's speaking."
"Oh, uh, okay. Are your parents home so we can talk to them, it's about a form they filled out."
"Are you talking about the Continuation of Coverage for Disabled Dependent form that I had my neurologist fill out?"
"Um, but the form said..."
"It said..?"
"Oh well the medical director couldn't read your doctor's handwriting so we had to call your neurologist's office and his nurse seemed concerned that we hadn't called your parents to ask their permission to get it from them, so I was just calling to inform you that we're still reviewing this, bye."

 

Got the approval for continuation last week. Who is it addressed to? Not me, but to "The parents of <bros402>"

 

Oops. Might've gotten a bit off topic though.

 

I wonder how the show will tackle transition planning - I mean, JJ's 16. They have to already be involving Voc Rehab given his needs (and they could probably get Voc Rehab to pick up some of the tab) and it would be interesting if a season 3 of this show deals with the fun that is being disabled in college.

[TaraS1]

I like Minnie Driver as much as the next person who has only seen her in Good Will Hunting, but yeah....dial it down, Minnie.  Everything about her performance reminded me of a British actress I love, who does over-the-top and sarcasm much better:  Lucy Punch.

[Indy]

9 hours ago, Jac said:

I like that JJ is an asshole. His behaviour is very typical for a lot of teenagers, disabled or not.

I do to. I loved when they got to the new house and Ray was reading of JJ's board and said "It sucks" out loud just as their mom walked in and Ray got blamed for it even though they were JJ's words. It's such a sibling thing to do something bad and then point blame at the other when mom comes in.  Both the parents are snarky so I completely buy that their teenage boy would  get amusement out of getting his squeeky voiced aid to say stuff like Bibbity Bobbity Boo.  

[alexvillage]

16 hours ago, Zanne said:

Just because JJ has limited mobility and problems with expressive speech absolutely does not mean he would have been placed in a separate, self-contained classroom. Students with speech issues and with mobility issues are placed in General Education classes if that's where they are functioning. There is a boatload of testing that needs to be done before a district can dare take a child out of a General Education setting and if that testing shows the child has no academic issues then they cannot place him in a separate setting just because he's in a wheelchair. That's bullshit. Yes, he should have an IEP to guarantee certain rights, such as having a paraprofessional, but that doesn't immediately maroon him where he doesn't belong. If the student required a paraprofessional with special skills, then the district might agree at the IEP meeting to pay for such services from an outside company. Usually, however, the position would be flown and the district would hire someone. I've been in Special Services (yep, that's what they call it now) for at least 15 years and in my early days I served as a scribe for a young lady who was paralyzed. The point of an IEP is to make it possible for students to get what they need in order to access the curriculum, not to punish them. It was the Mom's reaction of "Yay, no more Special Ed!" that frustrated me because that IEP would, in effect, be paying for the paraprofessional, for assistive devices that might help JJ in class, or whatever else he might need, and all without removing him from the General Education classroom.

The show is not completely accurate but I can live with these inaccuracies. But I have to say some kids are forgotten by the system and the IEP's, and the rights are completely forgotten. I was part of one IEP meeting that first, the school tried to stop advocates from participating. Then they did not want to allow recordings but because there was a request from someone partially deaf, they had to comply with CART, which can be reviewed. Then the person leading the meeting for the district lied, got into argument with us, saying she did not say what she did. When the CART review came, the proof that she lied was there.

This happens all the time. They don't want to comply with the IEP's and if you have a very good team of advocates, they lie. The happened in a very high profile, rich district, so imagine what happens with families that don't have access to other advocates.

In another case the district actually prohibited an advocate to be present, then called police to arrest her. Because she got things that they didn't want to provide

[alexvillage]

16 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

I loved it I could relate to JJ so well and I understood where Maya was coming from. Society tends to equate verbal ability with intelligence so she's had to convince people for all of her son's life that he's smart. I didn't take Maya's he's all right upstairs to be a slur toward people with cognitive disabilities but as an explanation of her son's abilities. The one thing the show got wrong was having the whole family move to accommodate JJ. Under special education law if a school cannot meet a disabled student's needs they are responsible for transportation to a school that can. The family doesn't have to move as well. I have CP like JJ does and the schools in my hometown were inaccessible so I attended different ones than my siblings.

I hope they will see that, since the consultant for the show has been informed of it. 

But it is actually something that generates discussions and arguments within the disability community - the extent that some people who are physically disabled go to separate themselves from the intellectually and developmentally disabled people. It happens more than some are comfortable acknowledging.

As for transportation, you are right. But more often than not the kid is transported to a district with fewer resources and is not included, as the parents in the show want JJ to be.

[alexvillage]

Quote

My impression is that Minnie's character wanted JJ to be in standard classrooms in the public school.  She found a district that was rich enough that through public school funding, they could get the personal aide who could speak on JJ's behalf so he could participate in regular classrooms and not have to be in a separate room that may include other types of disabled students, particularly mentally disabled students.  Since JJ was not mentally disabled, he could keep up intellectually with non-disabled students, he just had difficulties communicating verbally, the aide solves that problem.  Of course, my question is how does he take written tests, perhaps we'll see an episode about that.  Anyway, I believe he still has an IEP that's unique to his situation (which perhaps may include accomodations for written tests, for example).

Mentally disabled is not the same as intellectually disabled or developmentally disabled. 

Some people are not intellectually disabled but are cognitively disabled (common in developmental disabilities) and need extra time, therefore not being able to keep up with the rest of the class (although I believe in inclusion as a default, for everyone). Some developmentally disabled people can keep up intellectually, and they are usually moved to special ed.

I don't think it is the case, but JJ could be cognitively disabled.

[tennisgurl]

I loved this, and it fits in perfectly with the rest of the Family Sitcom lineup its a part of. I thought it was funny, the characters were likable, and its great to see the issues faced by people with disabilities and their families. I really do not have much experience with family members with physical disabilities (mental on the other hand...), so this is really interesting to me, and I really look forward to reading the comments on this board, and seeing the thoughts and opinions of people who do have experience in this department. 

Also, thank GOD Minnie Driver is not trying to do a fake American accent. I like Minnie Driver (I still miss About A Boy, where she plays another Mama Bear type), but I have heard her American accents, and they are...hit and miss. 

[MsNewsradio]

Quote

So why didn't the van have a handicapped placard? And if it didn't, that doesn't mean they can park there even though there is someone in the vehicle that is disabled.

If they are anything like my family, they may have 1) forgotten to put it up or 2) been waiting until they'd gotten everyone out of the car to do so. You can't drive with a handicap placard dangling off your rearview mirror, so sometimes it just boils down to "well, crap, forgot to put it up". My mom has had to dash back out of stores to avoid getting ticketed because she was preoccupied with my grandmother and forgotten to hang it.  

Since they were still getting JJ out of the car, it may have been as simple as once the family was all out, Minnie's character would have popped the placard up, locked the car, and they'd be on their way. The woman in the other vehicle didn't exactly give them the opportunity to do that though.

[Cherry Cola]

I liked it. I don't remember exactly what had me cracking up, but it was when Kenneth and JJ were on the stage at she end.  Is Kenneth Deacon from King of Queens? I will have to look that up.  So, I will be tuning in again.  

I looked it up, he was on Reno 911.  Totally didn't recognize him! 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Frootloop Dingus
Googled info

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Should You Give Speechless Your Full-Throated Endorsement?

ABC's new sitcom revolves around a family trying not to let a teen's disability limit his opportunities. There's no question it's important -- but is it funny?

[Kareny]

Really enjoyed this. Something about Micah Fowler felt familiar to me, and it wasn't til I googled him that I realized why - he's Kelsey Fowler's little brother! Just a few years ago, she was a big time Broadway kid actor. I can't remember any other kid actor who opened as many shows as she did (Bonnie and Clyde, Mary Poppins, Grey Gardens...) I saw her in a few things and had some limited interactions with her back then, and she always struck me as talented but also pretty grounded. Seems like she's moved on now as an adult, but has been able to help Micah break into acting. That's so cool.

I expect great things from Micah, if it runs in the family at all. So far, looks like it does.

[Zanne]

17 hours ago, bros402 said:

 

I had a scribe like that aide once. He had to fill in every bubble and write the essays for me on a standardized test that determined the core classes I took in HS. When I told him a bubble to fill in, sometimes he'd give me a look like "Really?" which would make me doubt myself, then i'd look it over and just waste time.

During the essays, however, he would go "That doesn't sound right, maybe say this instead? Yeah, use this word instead of that word." "Are you SURE that's what the question meant?" "I think you should reread it before you tell me any more."

Hated that scribe - had him for the whole week of testing. Never saw him again.

 

I wonder how the show will tackle transition planning - I mean, JJ's 16. They have to already be involving Voc Rehab given his needs (and they could probably get Voc Rehab to pick up some of the tab) and it would be interesting if a season 3 of this show deals with the fun that is being disabled in college.

That was a terrible scribe. He broke every rule in the scribe book. I've only done it twice for SATs in the past, but all you were supposed to do was bubble what you were told to bubble. The classroom writing requirements were handled by the student's 1:1 aide.

 

Yet, another reason to have an IEP! Transition planning is so important!

 

7 hours ago, alexvillage said:

This happens all the time. They don't want to comply with the IEP's and if you have a very good team of advocates, they lie.

But in all of the six or more schools that JJ had attended in the recent past, according to show? 6/6 is pretty high odds to all be gigantic liars set out to ruin JJ's life. I've worked in two districts and they've all been exceptional at getting what the students need, and working with outside groups to get it, if necessary. Maybe it comes from working at places that do their damn job, but the mom's abrupt dismissal of "Special Ed" was annoying to me.

[jhlipton]

One thing I liked -- the coach encouraging all kids; to do their best.  I hated PE when I was a kid, because only the best got any encouragement from the coaches.  If it was a race, then, yea, slow is not "amazing", but this is one of the many times that the "participation trophy" people like to complain about is legit.

[bros402]

5 hours ago, Zanne said:

That was a terrible scribe. He broke every rule in the scribe book. I've only done it twice for SATs in the past, but all you were supposed to do was bubble what you were told to bubble. The classroom writing requirements were handled by the student's 1:1 aide.

 

Yet, another reason to have an IEP! Transition planning is so important!

 

But in all of the six or more schools that JJ had attended in the recent past, according to show? 6/6 is pretty high odds to all be gigantic liars set out to ruin JJ's life. I've worked in two districts and they've all been exceptional at getting what the students need, and working with outside groups to get it, if necessary. Maybe it comes from working at places that do their damn job, but the mom's abrupt dismissal of "Special Ed" was annoying to me.

 

Yes, it was a horrible scribe. I didn't use a scribe during classes because I was given a word processor (The Alphasmart 3000, hated that thing) during middle school - in HS, my parents had to buy a laptop because the district said "Oh, we don't have any money in the budget." or "We can't buy one student a laptop, then everyone would want one." (Yes, I know how illegal both of those statements are.)

 

I'm guessing all six weren't all gigantic liars, maybe one or two at the most - and the rest just weren't.... something she considered adequate.

 

They said 6 schools in two years, right? JJ's 16, so that, to me, means he attended a good school K-8 and once he hit HS, they started to hit resistance from the school. I'm guessing it was that they wanted to place him in a class that wasn't his LRE (Least Restrictive Environment, or the classroom environment that he would do best in) because they didn't want to provide whatever accommodations and services he had K-8, which sadly enough, happens in High School. "Oh no, this is high school, in four years, he's going to be in college, he needs to learn to do that eventually, people can't do that for him in college/all his life." I wonder if Maya & JJ heard a variation of that. I heard that once or twice in high school.

 

On the first day of school every year in K-8, my mom sent me in with a letter addressed to every single one of my teachers explaining me, my disabilities, how they impacted my performance in the classroom, and a note telling them to call her with any questions. I bet Maya took the more direct approach of stomping up to the teacher and dressing them down on the first day. Flashbacks might be interesting - but might be hard to do.

[alexvillage]

13 hours ago, Zanne said:

That was a terrible scribe. He broke every rule in the scribe book. I've only done it twice for SATs in the past, but all you were supposed to do was bubble what you were told to bubble. The classroom writing requirements were handled by the student's 1:1 aide.

 

Yet, another reason to have an IEP! Transition planning is so important!

 

But in all of the six or more schools that JJ had attended in the recent past, according to show? 6/6 is pretty high odds to all be gigantic liars set out to ruin JJ's life. I've worked in two districts and they've all been exceptional at getting what the students need, and working with outside groups to get it, if necessary. Maybe it comes from working at places that do their damn job, but the mom's abrupt dismissal of "Special Ed" was annoying to me.

No, I don't think it is the imagined case of JJ. I was just making a point to show that things can be very bad, and usually are, specially when students are poor and from minorities.

[atomationage]

I like this well enough, but if it's going to center around these kids at school, I'm not going to be interested.   If it centers around the family unit, that would be better, IMO. 

[auntiemel]

On 9/21/2016 at 9:52 PM, Maharincess said:

@JasmineFlower,  the correct phrase is "eat a bag of dicks" not shit and I thought it was funny as hell. 

I am going to seriously endeavor to find opportunities to use the words, "I believe the correct phrase is 'eat a bag of dicks'" in as many situations as possible from now on!

[juliet73]

I thought it was good. I liked the characters/actors except for the mom. Yes,  I understand fighting for her child, etc, but she could do it without being so rude. Demanding a ramp and an aide, etc are all acceptable and should be done. Stepping on the flowers and yelling names at the principal in the middle of the crowded hallway was just rude.  Maybe her rudeness is why her reputation proceeds her.  I think the show would be fantastic if they tone down the mom a bit. 

[bros402]

9 hours ago, juliet73 said:

I thought it was good. I liked the characters/actors except for the mom. Yes,  I understand fighting for her child, etc, but she could do it without being so rude. Demanding a ramp and an aide, etc are all acceptable and should be done. Stepping on the flowers and yelling names at the principal in the middle of the crowded hallway was just rude.  Maybe her rudeness is why her reputation proceeds her.  I think the show would be fantastic if they tone down the mom a bit. 

The mom is an exaggeration of what you'd find in a school, but she isn't that far off. After 16 years of the crap she's probably gotten and you'd want to do what she's doing. The character is doing what a lot of people wish they could do.

[neuromom]

I watch VERY little tv, but decided to give this one a try since I'm a mom of a child with multiple disabilities. 

And..I really liked it! I could nit pick if I wanted to, but I won't, because overall it's pretty realistic to things I've experienced. Granted, it's a little OTT, but hey, it's t.v.

Maya was definitely aggressive , and sometimes rude, but dang- I totally saw myself in her! (Minus the rude parts) And the comment about "he's all there upstairs " is something that I didn't find to be offensive or derogatory towards more severely disabled people. Primarily, because I've had to use similar wording myself in describing my son. Among his several disabilities are motor planning delays and severe global apraxia - and even though he is almost 12, people will talk down to him. Or, they will have conversations around him - adult conversations- that they just assume that he doesn't understand. And sometimes the topic gets him upset. Then I have to explain to people that his "receptive language" abilities are perfectly fine, even though he  is way behind in "expressive language." People DO assume , many times, that if someone can't speak, then he doesn't understand what's going on around him.

When JJ flipped off those boys, I was totally laughing because i could see my son doing something like that someday (when he has the fine motor skills to do it) because it's a form of communication. And communication is something we all take for granted, but is very very difficult for people like my son. 

And Maya's talk with Ray at the end was spot on. Very similar to a convo I had with my 14 year old. It's tough balancing the needs of both of them. Especially as a single parent.

[bros402]

1 hour ago, neuromom said:

I watch VERY little tv, but decided to give this one a try since I'm a mom of a child with multiple disabilities. 

And..I really liked it! I could nit pick if I wanted to, but I won't, because overall it's pretty realistic to things I've experienced. Granted, it's a little OTT, but hey, it's t.v.

Maya was definitely aggressive , and sometimes rude, but dang- I totally saw myself in her! (Minus the rude parts) And the comment about "he's all there upstairs " is something that I didn't find to be offensive or derogatory towards more severely disabled people. Primarily, because I've had to use similar wording myself in describing my son. Among his several disabilities are motor planning delays and severe global apraxia - and even though he is almost 12, people will talk down to him. Or, they will have conversations around him - adult conversations- that they just assume that he doesn't understand. And sometimes the topic gets him upset. Then I have to explain to people that his "receptive language" abilities are perfectly fine, even though he  is way behind in "expressive language." People DO assume , many times, that if someone can't speak, then he doesn't understand what's going on around him.

When JJ flipped off those boys, I was totally laughing because i could see my son doing something like that someday (when he has the fine motor skills to do it) because it's a form of communication. And communication is something we all take for granted, but is very very difficult for people like my son. 

And Maya's talk with Ray at the end was spot on. Very similar to a convo I had with my 14 year old. It's tough balancing the needs of both of them. Especially as a single parent.

He's all there upstairs didn't bother me either. A few months back, my parents and I went to Costco to get glasses - I needed some and my mom needed them. My mom was asking them if they did prism lenses (In case you were wondering, they did) and then she asked if they did prism stickers, so the prism could be tried out. The person working the counter looked at me, then looked back at my mom while slowly saying "Sorry, we don't have the stickers here, his doctor might have them - or any low vision clinic." Just because I walk around a bit stilted at times and I don't have perfect peripheral vision (So I look around a lot), doesn't mean someone isn't all there upstairs. My mom is the one who needs the prism lenses, btw.

I hope this show gets great ratings. I like how much discussion just the pilot has generated

[chocolatine]

Since "he's all there upstairs" was directed at the group of teenagers who were rudely staring and snickering at JJ, I took it to mean "he understands when he's being insulted/made fun of", not as an insult to people with intellectual/cognitive disabilities. Like neuromom said, a lot of people seem to think those who can't talk also can't hear/see.

Edited September 27, 2016 by chocolatine

[alexvillage]

It is the language.

It was unnecessary. She could have said the same thing with other words, or better, let JJ flip the guys and then say something like: "he understands you, ignorant ass!". The thing is, some people do not understand nuanced language, including language that mocks them, or may need a longer time to process such language. This language mocks them.

I really hope that, even if some actually disabled people don't feel that this is bad, the number of people who do (and as I said they have addressed this to Eva Sweeney, the disabled consultant) will see this not happening again in the show. As I also said, it is a pattern in the community where physically disabled people say that with the clear intention to distance themselves from "the others", and in doing so end up adding to the ableism - sometimes without the intention, but intention does not stop the stigma. (I know what people mean and why. The language - "Our Minds Are Fine" - is still bad)

It is not ideal, or pretty, but this is a huge divide in the disability community.

[neuromom]

12 hours ago, alexvillage said:

It is the language.

It was unnecessary. She could have said the same thing with other words, or better, let JJ flip the guys and then say something like: "he understands you, ignorant ass!". The thing is, some people do not understand nuanced language, including language that mocks them, or may need a longer time to process such language. This language mocks them.

I really hope that, even if some actually disabled people don't feel that this is bad, the number of people who do (and as I said they have addressed this to Eva Sweeney, the disabled consultant) will see this not happening again in the show. As I also said, it is a pattern in the community where physically disabled people say that with the clear intention to distance themselves from "the others", and in doing so end up adding to the ableism - sometimes without the intention, but intention does not stop the stigma. (I know what people mean and why. The language - "Our Minds Are Fine" - is still bad)

It is not ideal, or pretty, but this is a huge divide in the disability community.

 Well, that's enlightening! My son isn't quite 12 and he attends a special school for kids with multiple disabilities. And the staff there are all great about  treating all the students with respect and age appropriately .  And I live in a small community  (Well, by CA standards)  where my son interacts more with the community at large rather than just  "the disability community." Well, except for Special Olympics, where he is actually the most "severe" in that group, but EVERYONE is totally supportive of him.

I suppose that I should be prepared as he gets older and interacts more within the community of his peers, he may be treated differently because of his particular disability set.

 Then again, I may just be very fortunate to live in a very accepting community . The city next to us  is a university town, highly progressive, and very "proud "  of their schools  -  to the point that they ship out all the special needs kids to OUR district, because they don't want to bring their "school standards " down.

yea. Dr. Miller  actually reminds me of one of the principals over there .

 I think this show is very good for a pilot. I'm sure they will work out the bugs. Especially if they have A consultant. 

 This is the first program and years that I can identify with. 

[bros402]

19 hours ago, alexvillage said:

It is the language.

It was unnecessary. She could have said the same thing with other words, or better, let JJ flip the guys and then say something like: "he understands you, ignorant ass!". The thing is, some people do not understand nuanced language, including language that mocks them, or may need a longer time to process such language. This language mocks them.

I really hope that, even if some actually disabled people don't feel that this is bad, the number of people who do (and as I said they have addressed this to Eva Sweeney, the disabled consultant) will see this not happening again in the show. As I also said, it is a pattern in the community where physically disabled people say that with the clear intention to distance themselves from "the others", and in doing so end up adding to the ableism - sometimes without the intention, but intention does not stop the stigma. (I know what people mean and why. The language - "Our Minds Are Fine" - is still bad)

It is not ideal, or pretty, but this is a huge divide in the disability community.

True. It's similar to the debate over person-first language. I have encountered some physically disabled people who have made some distancing comments and my feelings on their comments mostly depended on how they phrased it. 

7 hours ago, neuromom said:

 Well, that's enlightening! My son isn't quite 12 and he attends a special school for kids with multiple disabilities. And the staff there are all great about  treating all the students with respect and age appropriately .  And I live in a small community  (Well, by CA standards)  where my son interacts more with the community at large rather than just  "the disability community." Well, except for Special Olympics, where he is actually the most "severe" in that group, but EVERYONE is totally supportive of him.

I suppose that I should be prepared as he gets older and interacts more within the community of his peers, he may be treated differently because of his particular disability set.

 Then again, I may just be very fortunate to live in a very accepting community . The city next to us  is a university town, highly progressive, and very "proud "  of their schools  -  to the point that they ship out all the special needs kids to OUR district, because they don't want to bring their "school standards " down.

yea. Dr. Miller  actually reminds me of one of the principals over there .

 I think this show is very good for a pilot. I'm sure they will work out the bugs. Especially if they have A consultant. 

 This is the first program and years that I can identify with. 

Yeah, this pilot was great. Dr. Miller reminded me of a principal I have met, too.

[alexvillage]

Quote

 Then again, I may just be very fortunate to live in a very accepting community . The city next to us  is a university town, highly progressive, and very "proud "  of their schools  -  to the point that they ship out all the special needs kids to OUR district, because they don't want to bring their "school standards " down.

"Progressives" are more often than not very ableist. Just check how they don't pay attention to their language and "blame" all the absurd claims non-progressives, or assumed conservatives make on the mental illness or intellectual disability, instead of character.

And I hope your son can grow up to be unapologetic about being wherever he wants to be, because disabled people housed not be required to change to fit in. Instead, the world needs to change and learn.

[Big Mother]

I'm also a mom of a special needs child. but in my case, my son is quite severely autistic. Physically  he is finer than fine. He is aggressive and hyperactive and he doesnt give us a moment to breathe. I find it interesting that in my son's school, the moms of the cognitively disabled aren't such fierce warriors; we're so grateful that the school is not giving us a hard time about our kids' behaviors and they try so hard to bring out our kids' potential. Whereas the moms of the physically disabled are always so frustrated and fighting for more services and kicking up a fuss over every little thing. I think it is because us autism moms are so tired of the hope that our kids will still improve and have reached the point of acceptance and survival, while the moms of the physically disabled are still pushing for their kids to accomplish more. Whatever, don't mind me, I'm just musing.

[TheOtherOne]

On 9/22/2016 at 5:04 PM, Silver Raven said:

On 9/22/2016 at 2:31 PM, Stacey1014 said:

I knew I recognized the younger son, but didn't know where. Turns out he was the creepy younger son in one of the Lifetime remakes of Flowers in the Attic. 

Not according to his imdb page.  He was in several episodes of "The Goldbergs".

"If There Be Thorns" was the Lifetime Flowers in the Attic sequel Stacey1014 is referring to. It's listed two below The Goldbergs on his IMDB page.

[bros402]

18 hours ago, Big Mother said:

I'm also a mom of a special needs child. but in my case, my son is quite severely autistic. Physically  he is finer than fine. He is aggressive and hyperactive and he doesnt give us a moment to breathe. I find it interesting that in my son's school, the moms of the cognitively disabled aren't such fierce warriors; we're so grateful that the school is not giving us a hard time about our kids' behaviors and they try so hard to bring out our kids' potential. Whereas the moms of the physically disabled are always so frustrated and fighting for more services and kicking up a fuss over every little thing. I think it is because us autism moms are so tired of the hope that our kids will still improve and have reached the point of acceptance and survival, while the moms of the physically disabled are still pushing for their kids to accomplish more. Whatever, don't mind me, I'm just musing.

Some districts are better than others with providing services. In your case, you have a great district.

[jammaker]

On 9/28/2016 at 8:26 AM, Big Mother said:

I'm also a mom of a special needs child. but in my case, my son is quite severely autistic. Physically  he is finer than fine. He is aggressive and hyperactive and he doesnt give us a moment to breathe. I find it interesting that in my son's school, the moms of the cognitively disabled aren't such fierce warriors; we're so grateful that the school is not giving us a hard time about our kids' behaviors and they try so hard to bring out our kids' potential. Whereas the moms of the physically disabled are always so frustrated and fighting for more services and kicking up a fuss over every little thing. I think it is because us autism moms are so tired of the hope that our kids will still improve and have reached the point of acceptance and survival, while the moms of the physically disabled are still pushing for their kids to accomplish more. Whatever, don't mind me, I'm just musing.

I mostly agree with you - from the other side of the fence. At our school, the moms of autistic children seem to largely accept the services the district provide and just kind of roll with it. As a parent of a medically disabled child, I fight, and I fight and I FIGHT for what he needs and deserves, and so I LOVE that about the Maya character. But it's not because I want him to "accomplish more" - I have to fight for it because if I don't, he falls between the cracks because his needs don't always scream PAY ATTENTION TO ME .. so I have to do the screaming for him. Also because in our case it's his actual life at stake (which I think was seen some in the 2nd episode last night on the show) - if someone screws up, he can end up in the hospital needing surgery or with long-term repercussions, so I need to make sure they actually understand the gravity of the situation before I can step away.

Honestly the trash/person exchange perfectly sums up how I feel when I talk to school staff. Different context (because my son is mobile and verbal), but same feelings. They frequently put him in with autistic kids for "staffing and scheduling" reasons, when it is directly in conflict with his needs, and I have had to stand there and say "how is this serving MY child" and run through all the ways it should be obvious that it's not. I just want people to see him as a unique individual, and address him as a whole person, with dignity and respect. I want to believe that if I teach him how to fight for that now when he is young, it will become automatic for him to not accept anything less as he gets older - like it seems to have for JJ.

[bros402]

16 hours ago, jammaker said:

I mostly agree with you - from the other side of the fence. At our school, the moms of autistic children seem to largely accept the services the district provide and just kind of roll with it. As a parent of a medically disabled child, I fight, and I fight and I FIGHT for what he needs and deserves, and so I LOVE that about the Maya character. But it's not because I want him to "accomplish more" - I have to fight for it because if I don't, he falls between the cracks because his needs don't always scream PAY ATTENTION TO ME .. so I have to do the screaming for him. Also because in our case it's his actual life at stake (which I think was seen some in the 2nd episode last night on the show) - if someone screws up, he can end up in the hospital needing surgery or with long-term repercussions, so I need to make sure they actually understand the gravity of the situation before I can step away.

Honestly the trash/person exchange perfectly sums up how I feel when I talk to school staff. Different context (because my son is mobile and verbal), but same feelings. They frequently put him in with autistic kids for "staffing and scheduling" reasons, when it is directly in conflict with his needs, and I have had to stand there and say "how is this serving MY child" and run through all the ways it should be obvious that it's not. I just want people to see him as a unique individual, and address him as a whole person, with dignity and respect. I want to believe that if I teach him how to fight for that now when he is young, it will become automatic for him to not accept anything less as he gets older - like it seems to have for JJ.

A lot of districts like to pretend that the I in IEP is just there for show :P

[Big Mother]

Note to special needs families: there's no place like New York!!! HUNDREDS of schools to choose from, and a Board of Ed that really tries to accommodate.

[neuromom]

On September 29, 2016 at 7:29 AM, jammaker said:

I mostly agree with you - from the other side of the fence. At our school, the moms of autistic children seem to largely accept the services the district provide and just kind of roll with it. As a parent of a medically disabled child, I fight, and I fight and I FIGHT for what he needs and deserves, and so I LOVE that about the Maya character. But it's not because I want him to "accomplish more" - I have to fight for it because if I don't, he falls between the cracks because his needs don't always scream PAY ATTENTION TO ME .. so I have to do the screaming for him. Also because in our case it's his actual life at stake (which I think was seen some in the 2nd episode last night on the show) - if someone screws up, he can end up in the hospital needing surgery or with long-term repercussions, so I need to make sure they actually understand the gravity of the situation before I can step away.

Honestly the trash/person exchange perfectly sums up how I feel when I talk to school staff. Different context (because my son is mobile and verbal), but same feelings. They frequently put him in with autistic kids for "staffing and scheduling" reasons, when it is directly in conflict with his needs, and I have had to stand there and say "how is this serving MY child" and run through all the ways it should be obvious that it's not. I just want people to see him as a unique individual, and address him as a whole person, with dignity and respect. I want to believe that if I teach him how to fight for that now when he is young, it will become automatic for him to not accept anything less as he gets older - like it seems to have for JJ.

Beautifully said, Jammaker! My son has severe disabilities, but is not  medically fragile and he doesn't have autism. So I have to be the one to be the advocate to make sure that he is treated as an individual. Thankfully he goes to a special school where the staff is responsive and treats every child individually. And I also substitute as a para educator and as a teacher. So I know the staff personally and I know all the kids. As much as I would love for my son to mainstream someday,  The irony is that the special school gives him the attention that he needs more than he would get in a mainstream classroom . 

[Duke2801]

I thought the pilot was decent.  Not amazing, not terrible--but alright. I will tune in again.  I liked the character of JJ the best, with his new aide a close second. The other 2 kids are alright too. But Minnie Driver's character?  Yikes.  Way too bitchy and controlling. 

I 100% get advocating for your kids - especially those with special needs - in ways that might not be deemed "polite" by general society, but she's just way over the top and just....unlikable. And that is too bad because I really like Minnie Driver (and she looks fan-flippin-tastic!)  The dad is OK but if he's written to be nothing more than a "yes man" to his overbearing wife.... ehhh, I'd have a problem with that.

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 3:45 AM, LekoBoy said:

I liked G. Gordon-Leavitt in the planetarium, but isn't he too old to be dating a highschool boy?  He was a teen years ago on 30 Rock.

Errr... say what now?  I guess you're implying that the other son's "love interest" looks like Joseph Gordon-Levitt, who was once on 3rd Rock From the Sun?  In which case, yeah, I would have to disagree heartily. 

[bros402]

15 hours ago, Big Mother said:

Note to special needs families: there's no place like New York!!! HUNDREDS of schools to choose from, and a Board of Ed that really tries to accommodate.

Most of the top 10 states for education are pretty good with IEPs. Here in NJ, for example, we have a *lot* of private schools for students with disabilities - and a few magnet schools. I've heard great things about Massachusetts, as well.

So, pretty much the northeast is good for special education.

[neuromom]

12 hours ago, bros402 said:

Most of the top 10 states for education are pretty good with IEPs. Here in NJ, for example, we have a *lot* of private schools for students with disabilities - and a few magnet schools. I've heard great things about Massachusetts, as well.

So, pretty much the northeast is good for special education.

Here in CA, it's hit and miss.  Then again it's a pretty large state , so it depends on the county you live in. I am VERY fortunate to happen to live within 5 miles of the special school, which serves kids with severe made f fortunate to happen to live within 5 miles of the special school, which serves kids with severe needs  for the entire county . And we are considered a "rural county",  but I've been told that our school is better than some of the schools in larger counties . 

And I know that the east coast is generally "progressive" , but I don't know if that has anything to do with "better" schools (I've often wondered..) because, like I stated in a prior post, the more "progressive " cities around us try to "ship out" the most severe kids. And I live in a conservative community..yet we have the best school for those kids. So, I try not to overhink things...I'm just very glad I live where I do!

Edited October 1, 2016 by neuromom

[bros402]

12 hours ago, neuromom said:

Here in CA, it's hit and miss.  Then again it's a pretty large state , so it depends on the county you live in. I am VERY fortunate to happen to live within 5 miles of the special school, which serves kids with severe made f fortunate to happen to live within 5 miles of the special school, which serves kids with severe needs  for the entire county . And we are considered a "rural county",  but I've been told that our school is better than some of the schools in larger counties . 

And I know that the east coast is generally "progressive" , but I don't know if that has anything to do with "better" schools (I've often wondered..) because, like I stated in a prior post, the more "progressive " cities around us try to "ship out" the most severe kids. And I live in a conservative community..yet we have the best school for those kids. So, I try not to overhink things...I'm just very glad I live where I do!

I'm not saying it in terms of progressiveness or anything - we have cities that are just as guilty of shipping kids out - the east coast just has a lot of states that rank in the top 10 states for education overall - http://www.edweek.org/ew/qc/2016/2016-state-report-cards-map.html

[SlackerInc]

I had been meaning to check this show out for a while, but I had been sort of putting it off because my youngest two children are special needs themselves (autistic, with delayed speech), and I was afraid it would either be insensitive or overly treacly and not funny. I knew it was getting good reviews, but I was afraid that was maybe critics just being PC.  (Sort of like the new teacher and his class, who were ready for JJ to run for president without even knowing him.)

But I watched it just now, and wow: this show is so great! It's amazing, really. Rather than being treacly, the show is actually wickedly funny.  (A little too wicked, I think, for some of the parents of special needs kids posting here, which I can understand; I probably wouldn't like the version of the show you all would prefer.)  It manages to simultaneously positively portray the "speechless" kid and his mom (who fights tirelessly for his accommodations, perhaps too tirelessly at times), while spoofing the overly PC way some deal with him. That's an absolutely incredible balancing act.

 

On 9/11/2016 at 3:01 PM, Big Mother said:

I would NEVER up and move my family around  a million times just to find the perfect school for my disabled son. and c'mon, is it that hard to find a 1:1 para for the kid? They had to move to a crappy house for that?

I'm sorry, but I just had to chuckle ruefully at this.  I saw in a later post that you live in New York and tout their schools as being really good for SpEd.  Apparently you are right to, but I think you might not quite realize how privileged you are.  My wife is, in addition to being the mom of our two special needs kids, a SpEd teacher herself (first grade).  I emailed the above quoted sentences to her, and her reaction was "Good grief".  She is constantly complaining about how every year she has many students who really need 1:1 paras, but the district will not provide them.  Not, that is, until pushed to the extreme: either because the kid starts hurting other kids regularly (hurting teachers or paras is not enough), or because the parents know their rights and threaten to sue.  But in our district at least, the latter path is not taken very often, because most parents of her students are poor and not well educated.

In fact, she prevailed upon me to homeschool our two kids, even though it is embarrassing for her at work not to send them to her school (the only primary school in our district).  She feels they need 1:1 paras, but would not even come close to getting them.  (It's not like she can be one of those parents who threaten to sue, since the school system is also her employer.)  Therefore, in her view, it would be a very difficult experience for them to go to school.  So despite my initial preference that they go to school, she begged me to homeschool them to protect them from this fate, and I agreed.

 

On 9/22/2016 at 3:48 PM, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I know Maya comes off as OTT, but I find her very true to life. Look at how much difficulty the family has navigating for JJ to be accommodated  and the way people treat him. It's 2016 and he's almost an adult. Imagine what she had to deal with in the early aughts with a toddler/preschooler. People with special needs and their families are practically autodidact legal experts and have to be very forceful in order to get what's rightfully theirs. 

Yes.  If it were possible for us to live in a different district from where my wife teaches, I am sure we would be doing exactly this ourselves.  It's frustrating for me to feel I can't even go and complain about policies and priorities at a school board meeting (and that includes stuff affecting my older two, neurotypical and intellectually gifted children).

[Big Mother]

You're right. I guess that living in NY I AM pretty spoiled. I have a friend in Ohio whose son is pretty aggressive (autistic) and the district simply wouldnt provide him with a 1:1 para, until he got expelled! However, I'd think that a kid in a wheelchair would need a 1:1 aide simply to help him with feeding and toileting, no matter which school he'd be in - you don't have to move six times in seven years to find such a para. But in any case, I may be way out of my league here since in NY it's much easier to get services.

[David T. Cole]

If you got quote notifications from me you don't see for this topic, that was me testing.

[bros402]

4 hours ago, Big Mother said:

You're right. I guess that living in NY I AM pretty spoiled. I have a friend in Ohio whose son is pretty aggressive (autistic) and the district simply wouldnt provide him with a 1:1 para, until he got expelled! However, I'd think that a kid in a wheelchair would need a 1:1 aide simply to help him with feeding and toileting, no matter which school he'd be in - you don't have to move six times in seven years to find such a para. But in any case, I may be way out of my league here since in NY it's much easier to get services.

The story of your friend's son makes the advocate in me go crazy. That is such a clearcut violation of IDEA that it isn't funny. Like that would be a slam dunk due process hearing.

5 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

I had been meaning to check this show out for a while, but I had been sort of putting it off because my youngest two children are special needs themselves (autistic, with delayed speech), and I was afraid it would either be insensitive or overly treacly and not funny. I knew it was getting good reviews, but I was afraid that was maybe critics just being PC.  (Sort of like the new teacher and his class, who were ready for JJ to run for president without even knowing him.)

But I watched it just now, and wow: this show is so great! It's amazing, really. Rather than being treacly, the show is actually wickedly funny.  (A little too wicked, I think, for some of the parents of special needs kids posting here, which I can understand; I probably wouldn't like the version of the show you all would prefer.)  It manages to simultaneously positively portray the "speechless" kid and his mom (who fights tirelessly for his accommodations, perhaps too tirelessly at times), while spoofing the overly PC way some deal with him. That's an absolutely incredible balancing act.

 

I'm sorry, but I just had to chuckle ruefully at this.  I saw in a later post that you live in New York and tout their schools as being really good for SpEd.  Apparently you are right to, but I think you might not quite realize how privileged you are.  My wife is, in addition to being the mom of our two special needs kids, a SpEd teacher herself (first grade).  I emailed the above quoted sentences to her, and her reaction was "Good grief".  She is constantly complaining about how every year she has many students who really need 1:1 paras, but the district will not provide them.  Not, that is, until pushed to the extreme: either because the kid starts hurting other kids regularly (hurting teachers or paras is not enough), or because the parents know their rights and threaten to sue.  But in our district at least, the latter path is not taken very often, because most parents of her students are poor and not well educated.

In fact, she prevailed upon me to homeschool our two kids, even though it is embarrassing for her at work not to send them to her school (the only primary school in our district).  She feels they need 1:1 paras, but would not even come close to getting them.  (It's not like she can be one of those parents who threaten to sue, since the school system is also her employer.)  Therefore, in her view, it would be a very difficult experience for them to go to school.  So despite my initial preference that they go to school, she begged me to homeschool them to protect them from this fate, and I agreed.

 

Yes.  If it were possible for us to live in a different district from where my wife teaches, I am sure we would be doing exactly this ourselves.  It's frustrating for me to feel I can't even go and complain about policies and priorities at a school board meeting (and that includes stuff affecting my older two, neurotypical and intellectually gifted children).

Excellent post. Yeah, the services available definitely vary by state - and by district. Some have gatekeepers that are horrible, some are nice. It varies greatly. The district I grew up in was pretty bad, until they lost a suit a little bit before I graduated. I could've easily sued them and won after I graduated, but I wanted to go into teaching and a suit would've blackballed me throughout the state.

[Big Mother]

My friend in Ohio is actually happy about it, because now the district will have to pay for private autism school. Which is ironic - it's way more money!

[alexvillage]

Quote

Note to special needs families: there's no place like New York!!! HUNDREDS of schools to choose from, and a Board of Ed that really tries to accommodate.

Unless when they don't

True story:

Autistic kid goes through two or three schools were there is little to no actual instruction because kid has unreliable speech. Then kid starts to type on a computer and shows that learning is not a problem, having supports is the problem. Kid complains about kindergarten stories (kid is 11). Schools still refuses to provide supports for typing, even though they received training.

At the end kid is homeschooled, doing really well, invited to attend sibling classes (above kid's grade) on topics like history and literature.

NY City would have kept kid in the kindergarten stories classes 

This for both private and public schools

[bros402]

13 hours ago, Big Mother said:

My friend in Ohio is actually happy about it, because now the district will have to pay for private autism school. Which is ironic - it's way more money!

When I was in Kindergarten, my school district tried so hard to convince my parents to place me out of district because they didn't want to deal with me.

9 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Unless when they don't

True story:

Autistic kid goes through two or three schools were there is little to no actual instruction because kid has unreliable speech. Then kid starts to type on a computer and shows that learning is not a problem, having supports is the problem. Kid complains about kindergarten stories (kid is 11). Schools still refuses to provide supports for typing, even though they received training.

At the end kid is homeschooled, doing really well, invited to attend sibling classes (above kid's grade) on topics like history and literature.

NY City would have kept kid in the kindergarten stories classes 

This for both private and public schools

With that story, the district is operating incorrectly with regards to the law - so very incorrectly.. Ugh.

[alexvillage]

Quote

With that story, the district is operating incorrectly with regards to the law - so very incorrectly.. Ugh.

Yes, but fighting this type of abuse is time consuming, it is draining and not really easy.

I was part of an IEP for similar circumstances for another kid and the district representative lied - blatantly - about what she was saying. The meeting was being recorded (not on tape, she wouldn't allow it) via CART, so the lie is there. That didn't change anything though. She wasn't fired, punished, she continues to fight against support for the kids.

Something like this is the show would be great, if done right - by right I mean with satire but not holding any punches