S04.E08: To Have and To Hold

[jamblastx]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

In fairness, there are lots of casual workplaces. My ex was a bigwig at an ad agency (and "account executive" is a junior level agency title, despite the word "executive") and he wore jeans to work, always. Everyone did. He wore nice expensive jeans with button-downs, but jeans. The junior folks wore jeans and hoodies. I've worked in a casual office before and I wore what I'd wear on casual Friday in a business-casual office.

Agreed...I too am an Account Executive for a multi-national company and when I meet my clients, I wear a suit and tie but all the other times I am in a t shirt and shorts...then again I work from home.  That said, I did have an office in Manhattan and even there since we did not have client meetings there, it was business casual

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

There are also people who are into sex but don't want to have sex in the first few weeks of knowing someone, and people who don't want their first sexual encounter with someone to be directly or indirectly on camera. 

Yeah but I don't think that's Nick's issue.  He can't even bring himself to look remotely attracted to her on camera nor find a way to communicate how he feels to Sonia.  If he had any interest she would know it even if it wasn't shown on camera.  One would think if he had THAT much of a problem showing attraction on camera he wouldn't have signed up for the show.  I mean, there's no way he can be given slack for not knowing that would have to be part of the deal if he was going to be on a show like this.  Plus, I don't see how there can be any doubt now about whether or not Nick's attracted to Sonia when he pretty much shouted it out point blank leaving no doubt about his feelings in that preview.  Next thing I know there will be a theory that the show made him say that.  Dude would NEVER say that if he had one ounce of attraction for Sonia, sorry, I don't believe it.  And editing monkeys can't be responsible.  He said it POINT BLANK.  Even if he groveled back later saying he didn't mean it, I would never trust him after that.  Even if it were true, dude has SERIOUS issues.

[Drogo]

2 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

One would think if he had THAT much of a problem showing attraction on camera he wouldn't have signed up for the show. 

But if he were gay, he would have signed up for the show?   

[BunnySlippers]

1 hour ago, Enero said:

I agree. Not only that but he's said on numerous ocassions that he wants to have sex with Sonia BUT he wanted to build a "friendship" first. Please. What hot blooded heterosexual male would be dead set on building a friendship before having sex with or at the very least being affectionate with a woman he was supposedly attracted to? Which is why Nick's sexuality (also for other reasons) has been questioned. 

That said, I think Sonia is lying to the cameras as well. I don't believe for one second that she's actually attracted to Nick. A woman that bursts out laughing when a man touches her chest or holds her from behind (i.e. the tantric session) is not sexually attracted to that man. I think she prefers a man's man per her quips about Nick's girly tendacies, but she tried to work with what she was given because that's what she signed up for.

Unlike Nick, who is making absolutely no effort to develop a closeness and an attraction to her. The whole point of this thing is supposed to be to give a chance to someone and look past what people might ordinarily be attracted to. But no, he doesn't like her, he's not attracted to her, and that's that.

[Snarklepuss]

41 minutes ago, Drogo said:

But if he were gay, he would have signed up for the show?    :)

Contrary to popular belief there are still gay people that want to turn straight just to please family or even because of religious beliefs, or even because they themselves can't accept being gay for any number of personal psychological reasons.  They may convince themselves they're straight and try to live straight even if they are obviously not on board with it.  Nick may be conflicted about his sexuality and not know which way he wants to go.  It wouldn't surprise me that a guy that seems to have a hard time expressing his feelings might not be self aware enough to know where he really stands about that too.  Some people don't figure that out when they should and flounder around about it.  Some never really figure it out completely.  I think he may be bisexual and may not even understand himself enough to accept it.  I think people used to assume that it was just because society frowned upon gayness that people were conflicted or were "in the closet" but I know there are more reasons for it than even that.  I personally think that some of this is not lost on Sonia.  She is a Social Worker and I can imagine her education and personality might make her pretty aware of this kind of thing.  I can see someone conflicted about their sexuality hoping that a show can settle the matter for them "once and for all" by doing it all for them and "forcing" them into marriage.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Jellybeans]

I just do not see it.  

[Evil Queen]

5 hours ago, KateHearts said:

I'm a little surprised at all of the comments regarding Lilly as being "under a lot of stress."  What stress? She has a wonky shoulder?  A lot of people do (and as was pointed out, she didn't seem at all unable to enjoy all of the physical pursuits of her honeymoon- ziplining and otherwise).  She is newly married on a reality TV show to someone she didn't know three weeks ago? Cry me a river; she signed up for that.  She has to work?  Hmm, been there, done that.

She was a total drama queen about the surgery. Scared or not (most people are), she didn't need to act as if the sky was falling.

3 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

The difference between your reaction to possibly needing surgery and Lillian is that she attended medical school. Being told that she was going to need shoulder surgery shouldn't have garnered that kind of a reaction from her. Drama queen. She's weird. 

I can imagine even those that might actually work in that field get scared over the smallest thing when it comes to their own situations. I don't think attending or working that field would make one not ever be depending on the person. As well as what area of medical they are in. I have a good friend that gets major anxiety over even going to the doctor's for her pap or a mammogram. While I can't understand it myself, I don't think she is a drama queen or anything. I have my own things I get anxiety over doing. But she has also had 2 different experiences with getting mammograms that both involved having to get them redone because they weren't done right. In the back of her mind she is freaking out hoping there is nothing wrong. IMO I don't care what kind of surgery it is, if I have to go under I am going to be freaked out over that. I have been under at least 3 times in the past and I would still freak out over it at this point. 

 

1 hour ago, Enero said:

I agree. Not only that but he's said on numerous ocassions that he wants to have sex with Sonia BUT he wanted to build a "friendship" first. Please. What hot blooded heterosexual male would be dead set on building a friendship before having sex with or at the very least being affectionate with a woman he was supposedly attracted to? Which is why Nick's sexuality (also for other reasons) has been questioned. 

That said, I think Sonia is lying to the cameras as well. I don't believe for one second that she's actually attracted to Nick. A woman that bursts out laughing when a man touches her chest or holds her from behind (i.e. the tantric session) is not sexually attracted to that man. I think she prefers a man's man per her quips about Nick's girly tendacies, but she tried to work with what she was given because that's what she signed up for.

IMO its not about Nick not having sex with Sonia that is why I question his sexuality but so much more...which has been discussed over and over. But with Sonia, I agree I don't think she is that attracted to him but she is trying and that is what they are suppose to do. I took her laughing during that Tantric session as happening not because she wasn't attracted to Nick but the way that lady was putting herself into it all as well and how crazy weird that whole situation was. It was hard to take that whole thing seriously when this lady is shoving herself in the middle of it all or including herself in some way in to it. The lady even was stroking at Sonia at one point when Nick was sitting behind Sonia. I am still not understanding why they were set to do this. More so after watching it when it seemed this lady was trying to get some freaky threesome going. LOL 

[holly4755]

OK, I didn't quote the questions sorry, so let me paraphrase - why do I think Lily is under stress from a disease - Well lets start with I don't know everything about anybody, even myself.  We never get the whole or even partially true story on these real people with complex lives. My belief that Lily is suffering from a disease is from early on in this show where people posted a link of lily talking about it and since it was social media, this is now off topic.  Lets just agree that  this whole show stresses people out by making them live with people they don't know. If someone reacts strongly to something , I always think that I don't know the whole story. Be it Lily or Heather or Sonia or Derrick or Tom or Nick, we only see edited conversations.  Like I said years ago I burst into tears about having pink eye (viral) but it was not completely about the eye infection it was about being in a financial job and this job was as a consultant, if they pulled me from the job for being infected, I would not get paid, my husband was also out of work at that time, it was stressful to not pay bills when they were due and growing debt. But all that was on the surface was that I cried because of pink eye. Life is complicated at best, so judging these people harshly on an edited video seems too much for me. 

And now that brings us to Nick and Heather a contrast of dealing with something , Assuming that Nick wants out and is just biding time and Heather wanted out and could not stand to be here anymore - two sides of the same coin. Heather pulled the band aid of quickly, Nick is trying to fulfill his contract and get the money, heh without hurting Sonia. Which is worse? I can understand that Nick does not want to appear crude on TV where he knows this is going no where and if he sleeps with and dumps Sonia, it won't look good. But his contract may demand he not behave like Heather telling the partner it is over. Could yo imagine that twice in one show? So is wither or neither correct, what would be the correct way?  

[Empress1]

10 minutes ago, holly4755 said:

And now that brings us to Nick and Heather a contrast of dealing with something , Assuming that Nick wants out and is just biding time and Heather wanted out and could not stand to be here anymore - two sides of the same coin. Heather pulled the band aid of quickly, Nick is trying to fulfill his contract and get the money, heh without hurting Sonia. Which is worse? I can understand that Nick does not want to appear crude on TV where he knows this is going no where and if he sleeps with and dumps Sonia, it won't look good. But his contract may demand he not behave like Heather telling the partner it is over. Could yo imagine that twice in one show? So is wither or neither correct, what would be the correct way?  

I think Heather disliked Derek more than Nick dislikes Sonia. I don't think Nick actively dislikes Sonia; they do seem to be able to laugh together a bit in a way that Heather and Derek did not. There are moments of levity and fun between them, even if there's no sexual chemistry. Heather and Derek didn't seem to have any fun together at all.

I also think Heather hates being on TV. There's just a vibe I get from her about that. I don't think Nick is comfortable with the cameras (I don't think Sonia is either - I'd guess she's concerned about what her colleagues and clients will see, as she should be) but I don't think he dislikes the whole experience the way Heather seems to. I suspect Heather is very different when she's in an environment in which she's comfortable, around people she actually likes. I'm guessing the contract requires her and Derek to film for the same amount of time even though the marriage is over, and I bet she was PISSED when she found that out.

[gingerandcloves]

4 hours ago, Drogo said:

There are also people who are into sex but don't want to have sex in the first few weeks of knowing someone, and people who don't want their first sexual encounter with someone to be directly or indirectly on camera. 

Well, sure, and that's why we don't sign up for shows where the premise is that we will express our emotions, affection, and sexuality on camera.

[Passthepopcorn]

16 hours ago, Verojama said:

 I agree i dont think nick is attracted, i understand taking it slow but 3 weeks and no intimicy thats not slow thats ridiculous!!! Theres something up with Nick!

I think we are going to find out in the next episode. Crystal clear coming from his mouth...

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

It was hard to take that whole thing seriously when this lady is shoving herself in the middle of it all or including herself in some way in to it. The lady even was stroking at Sonia at one point when Nick was sitting behind Sonia. I am still not understanding why they were set to do this. More so after watching it when it seemed this lady was trying to get some freaky threesome going. LOL 

I think they were both uncomfortable with it possibly in part because it was all being filmed with a bunch of other people in the room.  And yeah the lady was ridiculous; it was supposed to be about them, but I'm wondering if she was including herself to help get Nick raring to go for Sonia later.

[zxy556575]

Oy, the dratted dog being crated but still on/next to the bed? I think Sonia doesn't know what "deathly afraid" means, because she ain't that. She is fretful and nervous but Nick could so easily have helped her cope by managing his pets' behavior. Instead, he didn't do squat to put her at ease. That to me shows how little he cares for or about her, more so even than his lack of physical affection.

[KateHearts]

2 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

I can imagine even those that might actually work in that field get scared over the smallest thing when it comes to their own situations. I don't think attending or working that field would make one not ever be depending on the person.

I am a medical provider and I agree, when I'm sick or need a medical treatment I need my spouse's support.  I'm scared of surgery mostly because I know of what can go wrong, even in a "simple" procedure. I just have an issue with the way Lilly ran off, didn't answer his calls, came home crying, ran and locker herself into the bedroom- that's just drama there.  

[Vinyasa]

Quote

I'm scared of surgery mostly because I know of what can go wrong, even in a "simple" procedure. I just have an issue with the way Lilly ran off, didn't answer his calls, came home crying, ran and locker herself into the bedroom- that's just drama there.  

Likely "producer planned" drama!

[Jellybeans]

I agree...too much drama. And she is not an actress. 

[Zanne505]

I think its a simple case of sonia into Nick and Nick NOT into sonia.

I wonder if he would have been more interested if she didnt act so responsive and laugh at all his jokes from the beginning (i.e. playing hard to get)

I believe Nick is a bit introverted, but i think mostly what we are seeing (particularly evident Minutes after the wedding) he is just so unbelievably disappointed and struggling to put on a facade 

Sonia nailed it immediately when they met: he doesn't find her attractive. 

GAY? NO.

[humbleopinion]

Nick's date night out was so painfully contrived from Sonia's favorite flower to the stilted conversation.

Nick trying hard to impress and Sonia trying hard to show she was impressed with the effort.

 However, Nick's display of affection came off as hollow and disingenuous.

[Happyfatchick]

On September 14, 2016 at 1:31 PM, Neurochick said:

Yeah, but somebody always knows, even if it's just a rumor.  If that's the case, if he is gay then I'm sure the show and Sonia could sue Nick because he misrepresented himself.

Good!  She should sue everybody - she needs a pay raise!

[watch2much]

3 hours ago, KateHearts said:

I am a medical provider and I agree, when I'm sick or need a medical treatment I need my spouse's support.  I'm scared of surgery mostly because I know of what can go wrong, even in a "simple" procedure. I just have an issue with the way Lilly ran off, didn't answer his calls, came home crying, ran and locker herself into the bedroom- that's just drama there.  

also in the medical field and am aware of what can go wrong.  but it also provides one with the knowledge to look for the most competent surgeon.

[watch2much]

18 hours ago, PityFree said:

Lily can't be *that* injured. She was swimming, humping, zip lining, humping, dancing, humping, horse back riding, and having sex on her honeymoon. 

agree, and may be why she needs surgery.  if she was going to a follow-up expecting to get an all clear....she shouldn't have been doing at least some of those things yet.  Ziplining in particular would seem to be a horrible thing to do if you have shoulder problems.

[Adeejay]

2 hours ago, Zanne505 said:

Sonia nailed it immediately when they met: he doesn't find her attractive.

I think Nick finds Sonia attractive, it's just that he isn't physically attracted to her.  Big difference. 

[humbleopinion]

Saying Sonia was attractive was Nick's slippery way of avoiding the qualifier... "but not to me."

[Verojama]

I didnt hear that derek smokes weed... Heather is just a mean lady.. I dont know why people are dogging derek i think he was trying so much... But it was a brick wall.. When they were driving to the hotel he oh casino.. Heather started freaking out that hes a big time gambler .. Whats up with that.. Then she wasnt even holding his hand but held the instructor's and brushing flies off his chest then leave him in the pool by himself then the cave.. The inly time they actually bonded is when she wanted him to chug the alcohol cause she wanted to drink..

i think drek should have been paired with sonia and heather with nick...

[StayingAfterSunday]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

Saying Sonia was attractive was Nick's slippery way of avoiding the qualifier... "but not to me."

Although I strongly suspect Nick IS gay, the fact remains that he applied to be on this show for reasons not yet clear.  I think he may have expressed on his application what type of physical characteristics he prefers in a woman, with the main category, so to speak, falling under, "Latino" or some other rather broad category.  He may have also indicated a preference for a girl who was generously endowed from the waist up.  The problem is that so many Americans - men included - sit there watching those idiotic *Kardashians on t.v., and that type of female image becomes an "ideal" type of woman often associated with sexuality, etc.  - a bronze-skinned, curvy, caricature of a woman - someone with monstrous, manufactured boobs and an ass the size of a small planet.  If, for instance, this is the type of unrealistic image Nick had in mind when asked what physical attributes he desired in a woman/wife, then Sonia might have been the closest match. 

*(I'm quite aware that the Kardashians are not Latina, btw, and are a mixture of Armenian (father) and Irish and Scottish from their mother's side, as I recall.  But I am getting off topic.)

Edited September 16, 2016 by StayingAfterSunday

[Gem 10]

21 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

You should have seen me when I found out a couple of weeks ago that I might need gallbladder surgery.  I'm 58 and never had surgery before but I'm practically PHOBIC about going under general anesthesia and possible after effects of the procedure.  Everyone acts like it's so routine but I've heard of people dying from much less (remember Joan Rivers).  It's no joke to have this fear.  I was afraid of flying but even got over that and flew a lot for a long time.  But this is such a phobia that I dread it, break out in a sweat, am convinced I am going to DIE.  And I'm not prone to those things at all.  I'm pretty brave.  I've had implants put in my jaw without anesthesia (just local).   So I have sympathy for anyone who fears surgery. 

My own father flatlined 15 years ago for almost 30 seconds when he had his gallbladder out.  He had to have the full surgery.  OK, shoulder surgery is not in that league but add that to having just gotten married to a stranger ON TV and feeling insecure about whether he'll stand by you when you're not at your best and I think it's more understandable. 

I think Lilly is still in that stage in a new relationship where she's trying to make her best impression.  I think she's afraid Tom will see her at her worst and perhaps not be as interested in her, and that's one reason why she's more upset about the surgery.  I think she's seeing it as happening at a bad time.  I don't think that's a ridiculous fear, I think it's pretty natural, although I don't think she really has anything to worry about.  But just because they are so into each other and technically married doesn't mean they're skipping over the "best impression" stage of the relationship.

Don't worry.  I had emergency gallbladder surgery and it was the least trouble out of 4 surgeries I had.  Instead of incision, they did arthoscopic (4 small holes) surgery, so no cutting.  General surgery .. You are out in 2 seconds, wake up and maybe eat lunch.  Was in hospital 2 days and had no side affects afterwards.  Joan Rivers   had completely different surgery.  During endoscopy (tube down throat) Dr. Did something with vocal cords.  You will be fine.

[zxy556575]

23 hours ago, MsPH said:

I'm also kind of tired of someone being labeled as gay every season. Just because you're not a typical alpha male with a raging libido and willingness to have sex on TV show doesn't mean that you're gay.

What's wrong with speculating? Being gay is not a pejorative. People wonder why Nick's acting the way he is and have suggested: insecurity, awkwardness around the cameras, wanting to let his feelings develop more naturally, intrinsic shyness, neuro-atypical, not attracted to Sonia, not attracted to any women.

[Snarklepuss]

50 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Don't worry.  I had emergency gallbladder surgery and it was the least trouble out of 4 surgeries I had.  Instead of incision, they did arthoscopic (4 small holes) surgery, so no cutting.  General surgery .. You are out in 2 seconds, wake up and maybe eat lunch.  Was in hospital 2 days and had no side affects afterwards.  Joan Rivers   had completely different surgery.  During endoscopy (tube down throat) Dr. Did something with vocal cords.  You will be fine.

Thanks, OT but I've mentioned it enough to let the board know that the surgeon let me off the hook from the surgery today, at least for now.  She said I was doing fine and due to the fact that my gallbladder is in excellent shape and I have only two teeny tiny stones I probably won't have much trouble provided I stay away from eating a huge meal like the one that precipitated the attack.  She told me I should let her know immediately the minute I ever start to feel that way again.  I had a 2 day warning before the attack but mistook it for an upset stomach.

Getting back to the show, I think there's probably more to the reason why Lilly got so upset about the prospect of surgery than we are being shown.  I was under the impression before this episode that she was experiencing some kind of "medical condition" which is not what a shoulder thing would normally be called.  Not saying I think the shoulder thing was an fabrication, just that something else was left out of the show that would have been more upsetting.  Perhaps she just doesn't want to divulge it to the public, who knows?

[Evil Queen]

9 hours ago, KateHearts said:

I am a medical provider and I agree, when I'm sick or need a medical treatment I need my spouse's support.  I'm scared of surgery mostly because I know of what can go wrong, even in a "simple" procedure. I just have an issue with the way Lilly ran off, didn't answer his calls, came home crying, ran and locker herself into the bedroom- that's just drama there.  

It seemed it was edited to look that way I thought. I wonder if Tom knew she had her appt and had gotten up to go (making running late, or just yelled a quick off to the doc bye, we have no clue). Then didn't answer his calls as she was in with the doctor and/or driving home. I figured he was trying to get in touch with her to see how it was all going and wanted to know what the doctor said. I have a feeling she ran into the room to cry so it wasn't in front of the camera directly. She was thinking she was getting an all clear but instead told she has to have some minor surgery on her shoulder and will need some help from him. She didn't know how he would be about it all but he seemed to be right there for her. I can imagine with this popping up during the filming and the stress of the new marriage plus filming it was just a moment she needed to get out without a camera in her face filming it. I just wish the editing would be done better with this show because of things like this happening. 

[holly4755]

slight diversion here - gall bladder - you might want to drink lemon drinks for a while. I had large gall stones, but when I spent time with the doctor let me summarize because off topic  he 1) lied to me and 2) disrespected me by not answering any of my questions but by handing me the good gall bladder bad gall bladder comic book. I started walking a few miles a day, and drinking lemonade and survived without the surgery now 30 years later. Not saying it will work for you, but it worked for me. 

 

as to the show, I love speculating on the reasons for things, but not so much the judging of people.  As a reality junkie, I can pretty much assume a lot of production interference in any abnormal behavior, and having gone to a Tarcon with the year of the most hated contestant, in that year she had a horrible edit because they didn't want to talk about her dysentery, she would not quit even though sick, but that didn't get mentioned, but her being lazy compared to her partner was, frequently.  So I won't think someone is evil, I think someone might be judgemental, but not evil. 

[Stillhoping]

More random thoughts...this is a super casual area..sub tropics.....Ft Lauderdale where I feel Derek lives is more casual than Miami. However this is hardly an area of true ad agency "account execs" and nothing in Dereks past suggests he hasvthat sort of experience. I totally feel he does telmarketing or some sort of sales. There are many phone rooms here and many promotional jobs like getting people to a timehare presentation.He might rep for a cell phone company or marketing company.

I am team Heather...i think his pot smoking and his pushing "We are married let's get it on" attitude sealed the deal. I bet she could not imagine him with her friends and family...and he might screw up her job. I am glad she bailed

Many seem to say Nick is leading Sonia on ...yet wanted Heather to lead Derek on? And if Nick flips and lets his real noninterested feelings out why not respect Heather for the same? She has not been hateful. 

Now...Tom and Lilly...Yay...they are so cute. I am team T-illy! I truly think the producers have set up and blown up their "problems"  the bus..post nup...shoulder etc. Hey maybe Lilly had told him before about accident.and shoulder so he was wise to not take on medical expenses at 2weeks.

I think the other cute dogs are his..Think he had in previews. Maybe the stayed w friends and family during honeymoon and moved in the house a fewvdays later than Tom Lilly an Zuse? Anyhow the all get along great and all 5 are a cute family

I admire that while Tom and Lilly have ups and downs they dont pull low blows and attack each other as a person they may argue about actions BUT not attack and say hurtful things. Sam said unforgivable things to Neil and Heather abd Derek ripped into each other for example.

Couples can learn from T-illy!

[Vinyasa]

Quote

 am team Heather...i think his pot smoking and his pushing "We are married let's get it on" attitude sealed the deal. I bet she could not imagine him with her friends and family...and he might screw up her job. I am glad she bailed

The pot smoking and get it on attitude were not shown on the show so that is just something people are assuming. This is why we need a producer to spill the beans.

How is he going to screw up her job? Heather's job is hers, and hers alone, to screw up. That goes for everyone and their job.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Vinyasa

[Drogo]

10 hours ago, lordonia said:

What's wrong with speculating? Being gay is not a pejorative.

Being gay is not a pejorative, but being a person calculated enough to willingly misrepresent their own sexuality and potentially hurt another person in order to get on television and promote their clothing brand is.  That's the reason why some folks (myself included) will defend Nick against claims that he "won't make a move on Sonia because he's gay."  As long as nobody's condescending to other posters or going into the dreaded 'beating a dead horse' territory, it's okay for folks to differ on their opinions of Nick's intentions. 

Personally, I just have to wonder if Sonia's got any right to expect Nick to make a first move when she apparently hasn't tried to.  This isn't 1950 where a woman making the first move is scandalous, and all she's responsible for is putting her head on his shoulder and batting her eyelashes so The Man knows it's time to move in. 

If Sonia wants to take it to the next level, she's free to do that.  It's as simple as her getting on top of him in bed (fully clothed, even) to kiss him.  Or she might want to wear something to bed that doesn't look like she was just cleaning the bathtub.  Worst case, he isn't into it and she has her answer about whether he's attracted to her.  It's a dice roll we've probably all taken.

[Waterlilly]

Well, maybe that's what happened Drogo.  Maybe Sonia got on top of him and Nick threw his sucker in the dirt and didn't want to play anymore, lol.  I really think the producers push and push until someone snaps and blurts out something. Reality gold, they probably even high five each other. I hope Nick regrets how he handled that and apologized, it reflects badly on his respect level and upbringing as we say in the south.

[Madding crowd]

Keep in mind Nick said he wanted things to remain as they were and didn't want to move to another stage. I think Sonia got the message loud and clear that no advances would be tolerated. I think most women just know if a man is interested and would be ok making the first move. Making  a move when you know a guy doesn't want you to will only end in heartbreak and embarrassment.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

Personally, I just have to wonder if Sonia's got any right to expect Nick to make a first move when she apparently hasn't tried to.  This isn't 1950 where a woman making the first move is scandalous, and all she's responsible for is putting her head on his shoulder and batting her eyelashes so The Man knows it's time to move in. 

If Sonia wants to take it to the next level, she's free to do that.  It's as simple as her getting on top of him in bed (fully clothed, even) to kiss him.  Or she might want to wear something to bed that doesn't look like she was just cleaning the bathtub.  Worst case, he isn't into it and she has her answer about whether he's attracted to her.  It's a dice roll we've probably all taken.

I've been saying for weeks that Sonia needs to make a move. A clear "I want sexual intimacy" move. Best case, he responds in kind. Yay! Worst case, he pulls away. In that situation, I'd ask up front "Are you attracted to me?" if he rejected my advances, right there in the moment. If he says yes, then I'd want to talk about the hesitation about getting physical. If he says no, I'd ask if he thought attraction could grow. I'd ask again at the six-week mark. If the answer were still no, I'd leave. Friends are wonderful and I firmly believe that the best romantic relationships have a strong friendship at the core - but there needs to be some attraction too.

Nick may indeed think Sonia is beautiful but that doesn't mean he's attracted to her. I can name a dozen men off the top of my head that are objectively attractive but do nothing for me. Sonia has the right to be with someone who is attracted to her, and Nick has the right to be with someone he's attracted to. They just need to stop circling the issue and attack it head-on.

I think Nick's mom would be bummed if it didn't work out. She and Sonia seemed to get along well, which I thought was sweet. His mom and mom's boyfriend seem like lovely people.

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

I've been saying for weeks that Sonia needs to make a move. A clear "I want sexual intimacy" move. Best case, he responds in kind. Yay! Worst case, he pulls away. In that situation, I'd ask up front "Are you attracted to me?" if he rejected my advances, right there in the moment. If he says yes, then I'd want to talk about the hesitation about getting physical. If he says no, I'd ask if he thought attraction could grow. I'd ask again at the six-week mark. If the answer were still no, I'd leave. Friends are wonderful and I firmly believe that the best romantic relationships have a strong friendship at the core - but there needs to be some attraction too.

I basically agree that Sonia needs to push this to a resolution, but that's not the way I would do it.  I don't think Sonia wanted to set herself up for sexual rejection like that, plus some have speculated that she wasn't ready to be physical with him.  I personally think that if she had gotten a vibe that he was interested in being physical with her it would have turned her on and empowered her to make the first move.  But in absence of that, why bother setting yourself up for a brush off?  Plus, I truly think it put a damper on her interest.  I can remember dating men who seemed to have a virtual "off limits" sign around their necks.  I would never initiate with someone like that.  Why put myself in that uncomfortable position?  I would never WANT to, anyway.  My ego doesn't need that.  I know that a lot of women tend to need to have some outward sign from a man, not even a verbal one, to want to have physical contact with him.  I would be that way myself.  If I didn't get the vibe from a guy that he liked me "that way", I'd keep my distance and get turned off.  I would eventually talk to him about it, though, if I were Sonia.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Shouldn't A Social Worker Be Better At Having Awkward Conversations Than Married At First Sight's Sonia Is?

And more not-quite-burning questions sparked by 'To Have And To Hold'!

[Lily247]

On 9/13/2016 at 8:20 PM, Madding crowd said:

I thought Lilly was acting like she found out she had cancer or something. I've had two shoulder surgeries and of course no one wants to have a surgery at all but it's not a major surgery. I would consider major surgery to be on an organ. And she appears to be able to lift her arms so I'm thinking maybe it will be arthroscopic surgery. I can see why she wouldn't want to be a burden, but you are usually home the same day and just have to do therapy. Just seemed way too dramatic.

 

Me too ! I 100% think the show was using a play on words when we hear her voice crying "I thought I was clear !" I'm sure most people assumed she meant cancer, which if that was the intention, NOT COOL. The shoulder surgery that she is describing is not as big a deal as she is making it to be. I know because someone close to me had surgery on their shoulder. Even though they are putting it like she has no choice, it is labelled as "elective surgery". Just some time off work post-op and physical therapy. If she thought she was 'clear" then she must not be in unbearable pain either. I definitely get the feeling like Tom and Lily are acting and putting on a show. When they were arguing about kids, you could see Lily biting her lip back like she was trying to hold in laughter. That is what pisses me off about this couple. At least the other ones seem genuine, (exvept for Nick - who knows whats going on in his head). 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Matias130

[Lily247]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I've been saying for weeks that Sonia needs to make a move. A clear "I want sexual intimacy" move. Best case, he responds in kind. Yay! Worst case, he pulls away. In that situation, I'd ask up front "Are you attracted to me?" if he rejected my advances, right there in the moment. If he says yes, then I'd want to talk about the hesitation about getting physical. If he says no, I'd ask if he thought attraction could grow. I'd ask again at the six-week mark. If the answer were still no, I'd leave. Friends are wonderful and I firmly believe that the best romantic relationships have a strong friendship at the core - but there needs to be some attraction too.

Nick may indeed think Sonia is beautiful but that doesn't mean he's attracted to her. I can name a dozen men off the top of my head that are objectively attractive but do nothing for me. Sonia has the right to be with someone who is attracted to her, and Nick has the right to be with someone he's attracted to. They just need to stop circling the issue and attack it head-on.

I think Nick's mom would be bummed if it didn't work out. She and Sonia seemed to get along well, which I thought was sweet. His mom and mom's boyfriend seem like lovely people.

Asking a man up front if he is attracted can be kind of a crapshoot though, as many would prefer to not hurt any feelings. His actions are pretty much speaking for themselves after this point anyway, plus it makes her look insecure. Best thing to do is look her hottest, not pay him much mind and try to make him see that other guys are checking her out. Trust me, the best way to make an uninterested guy sit up and pay attention is to show that you are a hot ommoidty and do not need his validation. 

[Evil Queen]

5 hours ago, Waterlilly said:

Well, maybe that's what happened Drogo.  Maybe Sonia got on top of him and Nick threw his sucker in the dirt and didn't want to play anymore, lol.  I really think the producers push and push until someone snaps and blurts out something. Reality gold, they probably even high five each other. I hope Nick regrets how he handled that and apologized, it reflects badly on his respect level and upbringing as we say in the south.

There is a different show and one of the girls from it had said they basically would push and push and push until they had them in tears if that is what the producers were looking for. They would ask over and over again the same questions to try to get any reaction from them they could. Which in the end is not ok and will give us a crappy response that isn't genuine. With this though Nick has Sonia trying to get to know him so she has to constantly ask him to open up to her and tell her about himself. Then the "experts" will constantly be saying "open up" or "get him to open up" and so on. So you have Sonia doing what she is suppose to and is being told to do by the "experts" and it ends up with Nick losing it. Maybe the producers pushed it a little to come out in even a worse way but I don't know if that is how it starts or if that was after the other things. Guess we will see soon though. No matter what I think if he isn't liking her at all in any way, shape or form that he should have been upfront and said something in a tasteful manner. I just get the feeling he has no clue how to do such a thing though since things he has said so far come out in an asshole manner. 

Editing to add....as was mentioned by someone else he has made it clear he didn't want to rush into more to fast to Sonia. So its more than likely why she doesn't try to make some move on him. Plus who is to say if she really even wants to. I think she wouldn't mind some affection shown (hugs, kisses) though but not sure if she wants more than that really from him. 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Evil Queen

[nexxie]

20 hours ago, Adeejay said:

I think Nick finds Sonia attractive, it's just that he isn't physically attracted to her.  Big difference. 

Agreed - and he pretty much said that when he told the life coach that he isn't attracted the way he is when he chooses the woman. Let's face it, you can't match for chemistry without person-to-person contact.

[nexxie]

Haven't read everything yet, so somebody might have pointed this out - but didn't we all know Heather was out the door as soon as she slipped on that stank face!?

[henrysmom]

Quote

I definitely get the feeling like Tom and Lily are acting and putting on a show. When they were arguing about kids, you could see Lily biting her lip back like she was trying to hold in laughter. 

I think (probably because I do love them) that they are acting because the producers throw these "let's create drama" scenarios at them, and they both know it is fake.  So Tom is told to ask Lily for a postnup, and the producers hope she'll explode.  Instead she remembers she already signed a prenup and anyway, what the heck does Tom have that she might want?  So she just shrugs and says whatever.  Same with kids.  They probably already talked about it on their own, she knows what he thinks so she just goes along with more producer inspired nonsense.

 

Quote

but didn't we all know Heather was out the door as soon as she slipped on that stank face!?

I knew it the minute she went to the after wedding brunch dressed like she just stumbled out of bed.  She just didn't care anymore.

Edited September 16, 2016 by henrysmom
spelling

[mary.c.fischer.196]

Oy, the dratted dog being crated but still on/next to the bed? I think Sonia doesn't know what "deathly afraid" means, because she ain't that. She is fretful and nervous but Nick could so easily have helped her cope by managing his pets' behavior. Instead, he didn't do squat to put her at ease. That to me shows how little he cares for or about her, more so even than his lack of physical affection.

Speaking of dogs, who were the two dogs with Lily and Tom and where was Zeus? You think if she was upset she might want to cuddle her dog.

[Real4real]

I found it interesting that Nick seemed to be able to carry on a reasonable conversation with the counselor--even hugged her after their private talk.  But then when the counselor asked him basically the same questions in front of Sonia, he couldn't put two words together.  It was a weird disconnect, to see him easily talking one minute, then shut down the next.

[Verojama]

I personally think nick is strange, monotone no face reactions and yes only to the couselor and tge blond psychologist but not sonia.. I think sonia is the attractive better then lilly and heather... But she is a bit slow motion though its weird..

Heather shocked me with no makeup huge glasses... I just dont understand how she disconnected so fast.. She didnt even give Derek a chance like everything was pissing her off then she starting with the emotionally exhausted ... I am Not team heather....

[Empress1]

6 hours ago, Matias130 said:

Asking a man up front if he is attracted can be kind of a crapshoot though, as many would prefer to not hurt any feelings. His actions are pretty much speaking for themselves after this point anyway, plus it makes her look insecure. Best thing to do is look her hottest, not pay him much mind and try to make him see that other guys are checking her out. Trust me, the best way to make an uninterested guy sit up and pay attention is to show that you are a hot ommoidty and do not need his validation. 

JMO but I don't like that kind of game playing, especially in a marriage. I've said this before: I don't want to be with someone that I have to talk into it or convince of my worth. To me, not needing a guy's validation means not needing that guy at all. If I were in Sonia's place and Nick told me he wasn't attracted to me, I'd be like, well, sorry to hear that, and move on - with my life. I don't think it's worth Sonia's time to try to convince Nick to be attracted to her. Sonia is beautiful, warm, and does work that she's passionate about. She deserves someone who sees all that for what it is right off the bat.

[Lily247]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

JMO but I don't like that kind of game playing, especially in a marriage. I've said this before: I don't want to be with someone that I have to talk into it or convince of my worth. To me, not needing a guy's validation means not needing that guy at all. If I were in Sonia's place and Nick told me he wasn't attracted to me, I'd be like, well, sorry to hear that, and move on - with my life. I don't think it's worth Sonia's time to try to convince Nick to be attracted to her. Sonia is beautiful, warm, and does work that she's passionate about. She deserves someone who sees all that for what it is right off the bat.

You are right. However, it is not any wrongdoing on Nick's part for not finding her attractive, but if she really does likes him and wants to try to make it work out with him, this is something she could potentially try. After all, its only been a couple weeks to write the guy off, and he has never expressly told her he was not attracted to her. 

[Booboomonkey]

Why does nick have to be labeled gay, bi, weird, into casual sex, autistic, etc because he isnt attracted to a slightly "ok" looking girl? Why all these crazy theories and over analyzing?  You guys are acting like she is a victoria's secret model and theres no way he couldnt be attracted to her. Hes not attracted to her. ITs really that simple. 

I for one do not find Sonia attractive, shes weird looking and has a weird needy personality to match. 

I would love to see each one of you paired with someone you dont find attractive, and then have huge pressure from everyone to be intimate with them.  How would you feel?

Edited September 17, 2016 by Booboomonkey